Stop Doing It WRONG! How To PROPERLY Expose SLOG 3 | FX3 | A7SIII
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- Learn how to properly expose slog3 on the Sony FX3 and Sony A7SIII.
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Duuuude… your so detailled with every setting! I love it!! Thats what separates u from other creators! So helpful, thank u so much 💯❤️
Wow the next level of S-LOG 3 with Top Camera
Dude you did a great job on this bro! I’ve seen other great videos on here but is by far my favorite. Great job! Quick and to the point.
Great advice!
Thanks Levi, glad you found it useful!
Wonderful… thanks for your video.
OHHHHH MMMMM GEEEE SOOOOO HELPFUL. THANK YOU
Thanks bro!
thank you 🎉
Amazing!
Thanks so much, I appreciate it!
nice, thanks. educative
Thnks a lot! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
the cool thing with the grainy footage without base iso, is it does have a characteristic look to it. I guess you can always add noise in post.
I usually expose between 0.7+ and 1.3+, that gave me the best results.
That's awesome Kerim! Glad you found what works best for you :)
Is the exposure more important than base iso? There's times in darker situations that the base iso is not bright enough
Which camera
I think this focus and referring to the exposure metering can be misleading. It’s a very broad tool that can get easily tricked by high contrast scenes (spot metering can be a better alternative). It should only be a used for a rough overview. Zebra, false color and really evaluating the shot by eye (and knowing your subject and what is important) will lead to better results imo
Same I do 0.7-2+ that’s my go to it’s just a range keeping iso at 800
You only need to overexpose if the seen has heaps of shadows or is really dark.
The noise falls of the native isos are so good that you can expose as normal in non dark environments
Absolutely! These cameras really are fantastic when shooting in their native ISOs.
What I can't find is some notes on how people are actually adjusting exposure for the environment. You cant change the iso, you can't change the shutter speed, the aperture can be used to adjust exposure but also has depth-of-field implications that might not allow for much change, and there's no ND filters. So all you can do is change the lighting but in setups with ambient and natural light included, even the lighting is working around a fundamental base exposure. So... you're on the fly and shooting, you need to tweak the exposure, you're also stuck on your f-stop what's your go-to setting? - what gives first? The iso/noise or the shutterspeed/natural movement?
This would have been an amazing tutorial if you were actually showing the screens as you explained the setting. Some of us don’t know how to navigate that. But still cool tutorial though.
Thnks for the video, do you also have tutorial how to get the perfect S CINETONE setting on the fx3 ?
I unfortunately do not Osman, but I might have to experiment with that!
I usually film people and only care about them being exposed properly. What do you think about setting the zebras for skin tones around 65 to 75 +3 to 5? I have seen a lot of good videos saying that is the best way to get proper exposure. For people that is.
Does this work for the a7iv??
What were your exact settings for this video? Can I save multiple settings on the FX3?
That’s been my assessment with the FX30 too from looking at footage. Over exposing is not needed with these cameras, maybe with the old ones you needed to. The aim should be to set your exposure to zero. If it goes a bit above or below as you move around and the light changes it’s ok but it’s not ok to set it above (or below) 0 to begin with.
I find that exposing to the right with the sony fx30 helps a lot reducing noise in the shadows, since noise with the fx30 is pretty bad.
what specific filters did you use here?
Hi Alex, I use FX3, I don´t have PP7-PP8-PP9. What I have to do?. Thanks fot answer brother
800 for fx3? (native iso?)
The true ‘correct’ way to expose is set middle grey to 41% with skin tones around 48% up to 52% in slog 3. But often don’t have time to do this. It’s easier to just spot metre on the face and set zebras to approx 60% and this equates to what everyone says is around the classic +1.7 or +1.3 rule
how would u go about landscape shots with no person in it?
@@zweiche I just set zebras to 90%. Because slog3 clips are 94%
@@CVEXPLORES and you push exposure till you see zebras at 90% and shoot like that?
@@zweiche I push until I see them, in sky/highlights, then I stop down until they disappear. That way I’m always under the clipping point. This method doesn’t work if the sun is in frame fyi. It’s just too bright. But works well for most outdoor shots. It almost correlates to +1.0 or +1.3 in most conditions (in multi metering)
The "+1.7 rule" actually pertains to 1.7 stops higher for the 41% middle grey that Sony recommends. The reason for the overexposure of 1.7 stops from the middle grey is that your shadows will live above the noise floor and so in post, when you set your exposure back down, the noise will also be pushed down, resulting to a cleaner image. You actually dont need to do this if the scene doesn't have too much shadows especially day exteriors. Gerald Undone made a great video explaining this. The "+1.7 rule" was popularized because of that video, which most people misunderstood the meaning behind that +1.7. The +1.7 stops higher than middle grey, which is at around 53 or 55 IRE, was arrived because Gerald Undone felt that his skin tone sits around that value. So in short, just be wary of your scene. If it has that much shadows then overexpose it up to +1.7 stops, as long as you are not clipping your highlights that you need some information on your scene so you could bring it down on post and still recover that information
I have the A7siii and shoot interviews and when the multimetering is 0.0 on faces the background has a ton of noise. But then if I move the exposure to 1.7 my subjects faces are blown out and don't create the cinematic shadows I'm trying to achieve. Using SLOG3 has been a very frustrating endeavor for me.
I never have success with log. Pp1 I always fall back on but I can see where sometimes my wb may be off and harder to fix. But I attempted today outside and I always have trouble recovering the highlights. If I recover highlights mids and shadows look funny. If I bring the exposure of the whole clip I can recover highlights but hard to bring my shadows and kids back up. Like for trees and the sky it creates a halo around them
PP8 no longer exists in the firmware, so I just made a custom color profile.
Hey Alex, i love your video and you gained a new sub :-) one question i didn't dare to set my detail level to -7, what is your post workflow for sharpening or do you think it is good enough? :-) thanks in advance, Dennis
Thanks so much Dennis! You don’t have to put it down that low if you don’t want to, but I’ve never really had an issue. If you look at all my footage, it’s been shot at -7 detail and I actually rarely add sharpening in post because I like that slightly softer more film like look. But you can definitely add a bit of sharpness in post and it will still be great!
Your light halation is that just from davinci?
Hallo!for a7iv i know that 2nd native iso is 3200, if i go for ex 6400 or 10000 iso it will be a problem with noise and highlights? and also i have to overxpose by +1.7?thanks
My sony FX3 doesn't have PP8. Help!
hi HOw to you use text eeffect tittle in SETTINGS ?? tutorial? after effects?
Base ISO is 800 and 12800
Is there a view assist function on the FX3/A7S3 so you don't have to look at a flat image in the camera
Yes there is Mark! The setting is called gamma display assist and it works wonders.
Hey Alex, thanks for this video. With the FX3 update to 5.0, PP8 is gone. Do you have a workaround for this? I'll be pairing my FX3 with an A7IV at an upcoming corporate event, and would love to match their color as good as possible right away. Thanks for any help!
Great video, now do one on how to not clip your mic ;)
Hey thanks for sharing! Personally I think the title kinda misleading. I feel that there’s no right or wrong to your image since it really depends on the scene. Generally if you wanna get best results ,you should know more about the camera’s exposure latitude. By understanding that you’ll be able to expose correctly without blowing out too much details in the highlights and introducing too much noise in the shadow areas.
Hi Alex, I am confused about the native ISO of the FX3. Is the lowest ISO 640 or 800? With EI it seems to be 800, but with flexible ISO it seems to be 640. ..And how about taking a photo? Do the same native ISO aply to taking photos? Thanks
I'm not too sure about the photos side of things but with the latest firmware updates the native ISOs are 800 and 12800.
@Alex Perri, PP8 is gone in FX3. What should I do?
I believe you no longer have access to Picture Profiles because they're not necessary. Just shoot in CINE EI and you should be good.
I dont have pp8
Alex - it’s kind of weird right, everyone say over expose and when I do that I am having issues with the shadows, it looks ver noisy in high contrast scene.
I use Panthtom Arri luts to get the desired look may the issue is with the lut table?
what is your zebra level for the skin tons in this video?
Part of your problem is your use of Luts. Most luts are not well made and can be destructive to your footage. You should learn to color correct in Davinci Resolve… You can fix almost anything in Resolve without using any luts!
I find unless I expose at +2 it looks like crap and is very grainy. What’s the best single LUT to put on it with no other grading. Also do you apply the LUTs at 100% or dial them down? Why are you picking PP8 ?
Phantom LUTs
I use my sony zv e1 and the footage with ISO 640 is much much better than with 12800
hello Alex, is this working for the A7iv ? thanks
I'm not too sure to be honest. I know the FX3 and A7SIII have really good sensors, so it might be different on the A7IV. Only way to know would be to try out!
Actually i found the best of both worlds by just over exposing +1.3, that is the magic number, because it's a tad over 0.0, and it gives you more room in post production, and fixing overexposed 1.3 is much easier then +1.7 or +2.0.
I never go to +2.0 that is way overkill, first off 2.0 your in danger of clipping and not knowing it, it will not take much to cause it to clip your highlights, and, it's not needed what so ever, all your doing is making it harder to fix highlights that are too high like a subject who has pale white skin, that would be a nightmare to fix, and cause your subject to look like a ghost, and even if you try and fix that, other parts of your scene will get ruined trying to make the subject skin look normal, and going to +2.0 will cause a slight shift on your color tones that would be incorrect according to your white balance, Just don't do it, don't go to +2.0 there is no need for it and it's not giving you any benefit what so ever it's totally useless you gain nothing doing that...
So the best thing i found was to stay at +1.3 over exposed, that works the best, go and give it a try, you will love the results..
And also if your shooting Prores Raw, even better..
Hi what do you set zebras to for 1.3?
what rec 709 conversion lut do you use?
I believe for this project I used Sony’s conversion LUT for the FX3 and then color graded using Phantom LUTs. Now I typically use Phantom LUTs directly for my conversion and then continue to color grade further manually from there.
Hello from France!! i don't understand, i have seen all videos on exposure for slog 3 on my sony a7iv....it s always 1.7 over exposed. but even whith this, and with a small iso ( 3200) i have noise....i shoot in 60 fps 4k (so in apsc mode), do you think this mode it s no godd for s log 3?
you should try to stay at the base isos
640 and 12800
3200 is a bit high. go up to 12800 and put an ND filter on.
Hello, on a7IV dual iso is not 12800, but 3 200…
So are you saying to only shoot in 640 or 12800? Do you fix your ISO when shooting or set it to variable and set the range to 640 and 12800? I’ve seen videos that recommend using and external monitor to use false color so that you expose based off of that. When I do that I end up being over +2.
You can definitely use false colours but I never do. With the FX3’s new update, the two native ISOs are actually 800 and 12800, and yes I pretty much only use those two. If you’re still overexposed when shooting at 800 then you might need to stop down your lens or add an ND filter. You can also check out my video on the FX3 update here if you’d like: czcams.com/video/M-6v_Kr-eks/video.html
@@AlexPerri How does this work in run and gun situations , like outdoors, when the sunlight is changing relative to your direction? Are you constantly adjusting a variable ND? Thanks
@@AM1mediai needed this answer too
So is it 640 or 800 native? Don’t get it anymore
i thought it was 800
will this work for a7iv
So in dark setting I'd it better to bump iso to 24000 and expose at 1.3 or stay at base iso and be too dark?
If you really don't want to introduce too much ugly looking noise, I'd always try to keep it at one of the two base ISO settings. Introduce more light if possible or open up your aperture if you can.
@@AlexPerri so for run and gun situations when you can't introduce more light and you stay at base iso of 12800 there is still a ton of noise
What kind of scenarios are you shooting in out of curiosity? I just did a night shoot last weekend and shot at 12800 and it was great for the most part. Obviously when I tried to boost my shadows a bit in post I saw a lot of noise but I intended for those areas to remain quite dark, so it wasn’t much of a problem. If you shoot me a message on IG @alexsperri I can send you a little sample to show you how it looked in SLOG3 and then graded.
@@AlexPerri I might just be stupid... I think it's just my proxy files that are showing the noise..
Noob here... I do not have PP8 on my FX3 :( It jumps from PP6 to PP10 or PP11 - not near my camera now, but I remember checking that before and after the last firmware update)
Didn't have PP8 on firmware 2.0 and still don't have it on firmware 3.0 (updated a few days ago)
How can I create it? And I don't mean to put the settings on one of the existing profiles, but actually doing what it takes to have the required settings under "PP8", not under PP6 or PP10 etc. Since I keep hearing people talking about "PP8" and "FX3", I assume it must be possible to somehow have PP8, and not just putting the necessary settings on another PP.
So I believe when shooting in CINE EI, you don't have access to picture profiles anymore. So I wouldn't worry too much about it. I've been having great success when shooting in XAVC S 4K, 10 bit 4:2:2, Cine EI, and S-Gamut3.Cine/S-log3
@@AlexPerri aaah ok, that must be it! Because by default the FX3 is in CINE EI, and I never changed that since I bought it. Thanks for the tip!
Sorry, I’m a bit of a noob, I couldn’t quite understand what you meant when you said ‘convert to rec709’ at 5min18. Is that the picture profile you’re using within the camera or is that some sort of post-processing thing? Thanks!
You need to use a rec709 conversion lut
@@harrisonreed8718 before or after color correction?
@@ryanbvisuals Usually rec709 conversion is applied on the last node and the correction and grading is done on the nodes in front of the rec709 in the chain.
You can also have Davinci Resolve do the conversion using the transform color space, but I believe that still puts the conversion at the end of the chain.
The idea is that you can work with all the data that's available outside of the rec709 color space and you don't lose anything. Putting the conversion at the beginning of the chain and editing on top of that forces the data into that color space and gives you less to work with on your grade
@@harrisonreed8718 awesome! Thanks for responding 😊 do I do the color correction SK white balance/exposure with the rec 709 conversion on or off is my actual question?
@@ryanbvisuals So you will want to always be looking at the converted image (most screens are 709) so your view will be the final node with the conversion or space transform on it. But the W/B etc will be applied to nodes under it.
If you're a Sony person, I'd use the newish lo-con, 50-50, and hi-con 709 luts they released
Honestly, just monitor your zebras correctly and you don’t need to expose 1.7 stops.
In general I advice people to NOT use the meter to expose Slog3. You might have a scene perfectly exposed for your subject but with lots of highlights in the background and the meter will tell you you’re way overexposed when in reality you’re good.
I suggest people learn to use zebras. And in run and gun situations just use your eye. I know it sounds terrible but you’ll be way better off that way instead of using terribly misleading meters
You are absolutely right on that. I personally always adjust my frame to the darker area to get the meter reading and then reframe. I'm used to doing this from my photography days and just comes second nature to me, but yes using zebras is definitely a much more accurate way of doing it.
Best to run with + 1-2 stops exposure comp, use a 5in monitor with scopes, wave form at +10ire to 80ire. Outside shooting use auto iso. Inside with lighting use manual iso with your wave form scope. Simple. This is what Sony suggest for AF30 S-Log3😎
Those are all great suggestions Ron!
Native ISO is 800 and 12800
I just got an FX3 and I'm extremely lost. I've been using an A7III for a little while with great footage and I know enough to be dangerous but I'm aware that I'm still an amateur.
My FX3 is EXTREMELY noisy and grainy. This isn't just for SLOG either, the thing is just kinda noisy with picture profiles off. I have been overexposing my footage, playing around with lights (I have a GVM package) and at all the settings I've tried it's just unusably noisy.
Here's one weird thing I noticed is that in SLOG3 it's very bad (like, bad signal on a CRTV bad) at 10000 ISO and under. I was testing it out tonight and we're exposed like 1.7 at 5000 ISO and 2.0 at 6400, and up to 10000 we're overexposing more, and all of these settings are ridiculously noisy. I then push it to 12800 and suddenly the majority of the noise just vanishes. No gradient, it's just unusably noisy at 10000 ISO and suddenly almost clear at 12800 (still noisier than my A7III SLOG which should be worse since that camera only does 8 bit). Is this expected? I saw videos where people show different ISO settings graded and there's gradient in the noise, and none of their footage is as dirty as mine.
The weird thing is I ordered both of these cameras online, and I noticed that the A7III had a similar problem when I got it with extremely noisy footage, but I found a guide online to reset the sensor. After resetting the sensor on that camera the noise went away and it's been smooth sailing for 2 years.
I searched for similar guides and found nothing for the FX3. All guides about noisy footage on the FX3 say "just expose your SLOG more" and I feel stuck. Tried the same steps to reset the sensor and it didn't do anything. What am I missing? Can anyone help? I might just have to contact Sony and B&H and see what can be done.
The dual-gain iso kicks in at 12,800- a lot of other cameras actually outperform the a7siii at similar ISO sensitivites until 12,800, which is where the a7siii's lowlight really begins to shine. I don't know how excessive your noise is at the higher end of that dual-gain, but I would expect that it's performing as expected.
This also goes for the fX3. I believe there are also different dual-gains depending on what you're shooting in- S-cinetone's second iso kicks in I believe at 2000, but I'm unsure. I just edit weddings and saw this issue from a specific videographer who has since remedied the issue.
@@AnzelLmao This is correct for S cinetone 2000 I own a A7siii
have you heard of nd filters
No I haven't, what's that?? 😜
The reason why its "forgiving" because the noise floor actually lives on lower IRE compared to other cameras, and a7s3 and FX3 have built-in denoiser for the shadows though still incomparable vs denoiser apps such as neat video. Just to add, for daytime outdoors, you actually dont need to overexpose since your image will live above the noise floor so no need to overexpose it. Overexposure is better used on indoor shoot wherein your image will live on the shadows. Another tip: DONT USE THE BUILT-IN METERING ON YOUR CAM! That's actually a bad way to expose the scene as that value is for the whole scene. What you actually need to expose is your subject, and its exposed at middle grey at 41IRE, or for human subjects with lighter skin tones, its +1 stop which is at 51 IRE. To do this, turn on your Zebra and set it at 41 for darker skin tones and 51 for lighter skin tones. For indoor shoot, just expose your subject at +1 stop exposure, meaning instead of 41 set it at 51 and for lighter skin tone set it at 61 IRE.
Just to clarify, upping up ISO does not actually raise up exposure. The sensor does not actually receives more light, rather the camera just amplifies it digitally and since it was amplified digitally, the noise floor will also be raised, that's why upping up ISO will have more noise compared to the camera's native ISO. This is actually the 2nd reason why its better to bring lights, aside from shaping up your subject. Raising ISO should only be done as a last resort, if you have lights, use native ISO. Using native ISO will also assure that you will capture the full dynamic range of your camera.
Good info.... Thumbs down (for the shameless Skills Share plug)
Good video with the exception of the music. Why do you think you need music behind your voice? This is a tutorial… I’m not gonna get up and dance and believe it or not sometimes the music actually interferes with what you’re saying. Shut off the damn music… It’s not a drama!
Can i set the detail level -7 in davinci resolve? because in log shooting mode you cant edit the slog3 settings, but if u disable the log shooting you cant use luts preview, so it is possible to do it in davinci? and should be -7 or higher?? thanks!!
Wonderful… thanks for your video.