Best DIY 4 tire inflation system size... 1/4" vs. 3/8"
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 02. 2023
- What's the best hose size for your DIY 4 tire inflation system? In this episode I make a 3/8" tire inflation system to compare to my 1/4" system. This was something that a few viewers had asked for, so here it is... The results... You gotta watch to see, but they might surprise you. Maybe not, but I got a dollar says they will!!
Here is the video where I made my first 1/4" system. Great directions and parts list for your DIY enjoyment!! • I made my own DIY 4 ti... - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I don't know if you ever got an answer on why the 3/8 hose took longer. But try this blow up a balloon with just your mouth then put a balloon over the end of a 1/2 inch piece of pvc and then try to blow it up see how much longer it takes. The high volume is low pressure. As you try to blow up that balloon normally, your cheeks hold the high pressure and so when your lungs re-pressurize your mouth the high pressure moves forward. When you move high volume air it's at a lower pressure so the lines and the tires are all being filled up gradually and the compressor has to work longer and harder to build-up that higher pressure. It's very hard to describe without visuals but maybe you can get a mental picture that way. I hope I helped.
Ya the balloon on some pvc doesn't sound like any type of fun... But I hear ya. Overcoming not only volunteer but the existing pressure that the compressor sees not just as a static volume, but as a cross section of the hose. So, larger cross section, and now it's the square of the volume... That totally makes sense and I hadn't looked at it that way. Robert is on top of this!
It is a volume thing. Pressure is pressure.the bottle neck is the compressor the compressor cannot supply the CFM to get the benefits of the 3/8 hose. Use a shop compressor and the results will flip.
@mad is correct, the same way having too large of an exhaust will result in a net loss on engine performance in your vehicle, the larger diameter results in more internal surface area,which means there is more drag on the air leaving your engine or compressor in this case than it is benefitting from the larger volume capacity
That's,s theisable. Dandahermit.😅
The valve stem is the choke point, because they are so small they regulate the flow. The larger hose takes more to fill and the smaller hose pushes harder at the choke point (the skinny valve stems) which is where the volume is really regulated.
I thought the same thing. I went to try this setup but with the apex high flow valve stems. I’m willing the bet it will be a bit faster.
Great video 👍
One thing you could try is to eliminate the compressor. Use an air tank @150psi, and inflate the tires directly from it.
I have a home compressor, and I may do that. And of course the CO2 tank.... Thank you for watching!!
I appreciate you putting this together. You did a tremendous amount of work and effort into this. 1/4" hose it is!
Thank you for watching... Yes I did put in some effort, and a little bit of blood. Now I'm sitting around thinking of ways to test it farther, like... How much air do you have to have for the 3/8 hose to be an advantage?
agreed thank you
Thank you for putting this together. This is just what I needed to see!
Thank you for watching. I'm happy to be useful from time to time... 😁
It is truly a great video. I really appreciate you do this . And you take a great video. and it helps a lot. i love it. never make comments, but this is truly great!!!!!!
Great Testing and video
Well. That was unexpected. Incredible testing. Thanks!
Agreed on the unexpected. Blew me away. Thank you for watching, I'm glad you enjoyed!
I am in the process of designing my own, and this is very helpful. Nice job, and thank you for sharing!
Thank you for watching. If you have any questions I'm happy to help...
Very serious intent for an answer. I appreciate you saveing me the steps I woulda tried. I'm anxious for final results.😅😅
My guess is that the 3/8s system as a whole has more volume than the 1/4 system so it takes longer to fill the volume to reach the specific psi.
The 3/4" system increases the overall air volume in the system(hose capacity+tire capacity) making it harder for the air compressor to compress the volume of air. With 1/4" hoses there is less air for the compressor to compress
Very informative vdieo, I appreciate this a lot!
Thank you for watching!
I assume it's Bernoulli's principle is causing your issues here.
Whenever you have a cross sectional area change to a larger area size, the velocity will decrease and the flow rate will raise, conversely with a reduction in area the opposite happens, the velocity increases, while the flow rate drops off.
These area transitions induce turbulant flow, then when this turbulant flow dissapates in the system, it is dissapated by the way of heat, so energy is lost by the system, reducing performance.
The greater the number of cross sectional area changes and the greater the actual cross sectional area change, the more energy lost to heat. And either the comoressor has to work harder to maintain the perfomance, or performance drops off, which I believe is the case here.
After watching this video all the way through, I will say, this. Initially I would have thought the 1/4 and 3/8 hose would have taken the same time, for the reason we all know, the limiting factor is the Schrader valves on the tires. They can only flow so much air at a time. However, seeing that the 3/8 hose took LONGER, even before I got to the end of the video, I speculated that it was the volume of the hose as well. Let's think about the hose. It's not a FULL 3/8 system, it utilizes 1/4 connectors, as you mentioned in the video. So at each of those connectors, you have a bottleneck where the air has to "slow down" to pass through. Then immediately after the bottle neck you have a larger opening (the 3/8 hose) that the air now has to try and fill up. Now, while the 3/8 hose might not hold as much air as 1 of your tires, let's compare the volume of each hose itself. You said both hoses are about 45 feet long. So the volume of a 45' long 1/4" hose is roughly 26.5 cubic inches, using the formula for the volume of a cylinder Pi x R squared x length. The volume of that 3/8" hose is 59.64 cubic inches, or 2.25 times LARGER than the 1/4" hose. So, I would have to assume that between the multiple bottlenecks in the system, (going from 1/4 to 3/8 and back) and the fact that those 3/8 sections don't actually go anywhere, they sort of just serve as reservoirs, that need to be filled up. Seeing as the 1/4" system is 1/4" all the way through, there are no "reservoirs" along the way to fill up. The air goes straight to the intended path. I think that's where you're losing your extra minute.
That sounds like as best an explanation as we're going to get. That all makes total sense. Eventually I'll get around to testing it with CO2, and that should add more to the explanation.
Bench testing my compressor I noticed an increase in output after some back pressure is placed on the system. I think the rings on the piston probably need a little back pressure to “seat” and the compressor then pumps more efficiently. Anyway, perhaps the restrictions of the 1/4” hose created enough back pressure to create the phenomenon I am talking about and the 3/8 didn’t... I think one way you could test this idea is to start the test with the tires at 15psi. It’s closer to real world conditions and creates that initial back pressure on the system which I suspect helps the piston on these compressors seal up.
Thank you for showing this.
I appreciate you watching.
My dude, thanks for putting this together. I was considering DIY'ing my own system and thought that 3/8ths would definitely be better. In fact I was certain, and was already viewing videos about DIY'ing but saw your video and figured "Let's just see if I'm right"....and yeah you proved me wrong.
I proved myself wrong as well. I'm with you, I was positive 3/8 would be better.
All things being equal, 3/8 hose will carry more air flow than 1/4 hose (about 2.3x). Assuming the hose lengths are identical for each test, the 3/8 hose has more than double the volume of the 1/4 hose. Tire valves are a major restriction, but since they're the same for each test you can cancel them out. You need to factor in all of your reducer fittings from 3/8 to 1/4...these actually add to the friction losses, not to mention the addition of the swivel connections. Everything you add to the flow path will increase the friction losses and reduce air flow. Think of each restriction as an orifice of sorts. Since the compressor output is fixed, it needs to pump longer to overcome the flow losses. Going with the 1/4" setup without numerous reducers bushings proves this point. Soon-to-be-retired Mechanical Engineer, and don't want to bore you with Bernoulli and Darcy equations. 😃
Thanks for your video, i am looking to build my own as well one thing to consider is you also have to fill more hose as well during the process so technically you have more air volume that you have to fill.
I had ta wait till the end to see what you and the other guy came up with before I left mine, and glad to see that what ya guys came up with was the same as myself. Gotta remember, that air flow is not the same as pressure. The compressor has to keep a certain level of pressure in the hose to be able to push air, and since there's more 'air' in the system now, it has to work harder.
Think drinking water with a straw. you have an easier time sucking the water through the typically sized straw, as in, you don't have to work as hard to get the water going. But when you move up to a bigger straw like those given out for milk shakes, you have to supply ALOT more 'sucking force' to get the same amount of water up the straw.
Sure the bigger hose allows you to push 'more air' at once, but that just means you're doing more work to supply that air, which smaller air compressors just can't keep up with. There's a reason most of the 3/4" fittings you find are typically in the 'industrial' NPT standards, and not the automotive. . . Because smaller air compressors do not function well with bigger hose sizes. They're not designed to deliver 'tons of air AND pressure' at the same time. You either gets 'lots of air' but with lower over all pressure, or 'lots of pressure' with lower overall air.
Another analogy to that is computer fans, or fans in general. Sure you can have a fan that 'moves' alot of air, but if it can't supply enough 'static pressure' then the fan is useless for cooling. 'air flow' for ambient applications, and 'static pressure' for direct applications.
Thanks for doing this video! 3/8 would have less friction loss at high flow rates and long runs, but has 50% more of just hose volume to fill is my thought. I'm still filling one tire at a time, but got a quick disconnect for the Schrader, which saves a lot of time itself. Just untangling the hoses and setting 4 hoses up has to take time. 3/8 might be better for getting a tire back on a bead when max volume at near zero pressure is needed. 3/8 might act like a small air tank to help provide a rush of air to reseat a bead. I've only had to do that once and it worked with standard Smittybilt fittings. Just a stock 30.5" tire on my Cherokee KL is what lost its bead too.
3/8 took longer because the volume in the hose is bigger so it took more air to fill the hoses also the smaller 1/4 hose being a smaller inner diameter has higher Pressure in the hose then the 3/8s
If you had a compressor with a higher cfm but also had a tank to hold everything in lines at a certain psi it would show huge improvement in the opposite direction
Nice rims, I have the same ones on my Rav4!
I'm happy with the vision wheels. I beat the hell out of them, and so far I've only bent one just a little bit.
Nice test. Btw, nice Ayrton Senna poster. He was the best driver ever!
Thank you... I have many times thought of getting a Senna tattoo... He's forever my hero.
Smaller tube higher velocity .
the air travels faster through the smaller tube.
Great experiment thanks for sharing
Thank you for watching!
An air compressor it’s the same as a car engine it’s all based on air pressure how much compression/pressure can the cylinder chamber create per stroke
1/4in hose it’s more than capable to do what you are trying to accomplish, the only way to actually create more air flow through the hose is by adding an air tank it could be a 2gallon tank which is going to compensate for the hose thickness
I hope I’d clear your doubts
Great great video!!!!!
Home brew ingenuity at its best!!!!! Thank you.
Thank you. Yes, I plan to try using a large air tank, and a CO2 tank to test and see if I can overcome the disadvantage of the 3/8. I appreciate the kind words, I'll keep plugging away.
Very informative, thanks. Volume is the thing, (in my humble opinion). Think of a shop compressor and a 3/4 supply line 50' to your hose real. Because of the volume, takes longer to build up the pressure than a 50' 1/4" to the hose real. In my humble opinion. Keep keeping on!
That has to be, I can't think of a better answer... Thank you for watching!
Hey my friend, neat result! I think your musings of the pressure wave is correct, I think you just went to the wrong end of the system. I think there is too much distance in the line for the pulse to carry much energy all the way to the valve stem and it would have an unequal impact on the front and rear tires due to the different lengths and the T in hose.
I had never considered this as a possibility but what I think you inadvertently did was stick a new pipe on your 2 stroke dirt bike. 2 stroke pipes tune the pressure wave. In a 2 stroke some of the air/fuel mixture actually passes through the combustion chamber and then the returning pressure wave in the pipe, if timed properly with the piston closing the intake port, pushes the air/fuel mixture that passed through the chamber, back into the cylinder before the exhaust port is closed, supercharging it. Again, its all about timing. It would appear that the 1/4" tube results in greater velocity in the tube resulting in a pressure pulse that is timed better to help create a lower pressure at the compressors valves.
This would help in 2 ways: 1. More air being drawn past the compressors valve into the hose for each stroke and I think most importantly 2. The air that is left in the clearance volume in the cylinder is lower pressure resulting in improved volumetric efficiency, especially as the pressure increases.
A good test to do for your next video would be to use the 1/4" hose from the compressor to the manifold and then 3/8" from the manifold to the tires. I would put a beer (not a bud light) on that resulting in almost equal results between the 1/4" and the 3/8" hoses. The next thing to try would be changing the length of the hose between the compressor and the manifold (both 1/4" and 3/8") to see if anything that has any improvement as well.
Edit:
Just to add, This only happened because your compressor doesnt have a tank. The result would not be the same if you used a compressor that pumped into a tank. The tank would destroy the pressure pulse and the effect would be lost ( unless of course the tube from the compressor to the tank was tuned properly). You could test this as well by pumping through a small tank. They would both end up taking the same time I think.
Nice looking Fj and that compressor is cool is that a 12v compressor how has it held up for you looking for a compressor for airing down without Spend 600 on a built in arb
I think one other people have touched upon is the CFM of the compressor. The quarter inch hose restrain the amount of volume it needs to have to pressurize, or sustain the pressure at the same rate to fill the tire. Meaning the tire depletes the pressurized air in the hose system Faster for three eights than it does for quarter inch. So you only will see the benefit of a larger hosed diameter when you have more CFM from a compressor. The lower the CFM number on the compressor, the narrower the hose to optimize with the compressor output can benefit for the tires. Another way to look at it is if you’re only filling up one tire with a very short hose, then, potentially you may see less of a delta between the two hose diameters, as the compressor isn’t working to fill the hose in order to have the air go into the tire(the low pressure in the tire isn’t sucking out the air in the hose where the air compressor is trying to fill the hose and the tire).
Exactly right it is due to the fact that the diameter of the inside of the hose which affects the time in my opinion😊
Bigger diameter hose requires more air per square inch, thus takes longer to inflate tyres. Quite simple really 👍🤠
I am no engineer but it probably isn't the static volumetric difference but the difference over the time lapse and the capacity of the output of the pump. Anyway great video, thanks for taking the time and expense to make it.
Thank you for watching. I may have to do some maths and look into the numbers...
Appreciate the videos. I’m looking to do this and had the same question. This is just my thoughts right or wrong. At zero pressure in the tires, it takes longer to fill the void within the the empty lines on the 3/8th than the 1/4. Maybe another test would be one to actually have pressure in the tires like a typical air down. Again. My two cents. Thanks again
its all about the pressure differential. The smaller diameter has a higher pressure output. like turning on the hose at home but having a smaller nozzle on the end of the hose. this outputs a higher pressure at the other end which is the tire and valve. the higher the pressure difference between the hose and the tire the faster the air is going to move from the high pressure side to the low pressure side. as you said because the choke point is also the valve you dont have the option of moving the larger volume at the lower pressure that would be required to benefit from the larger size hose and fittings.
The bigger the diameter of the hose, the less pressure it built up inside, or, it takes longer time to create more pressure in the hose for a rapid release, on the other hand the smaller diameter of the hose its a higher pressure that built-up inside, so the release of air is faster into the tires.
It is due to the added volume of space between the 1/4 & 3/8 hose
Try airing up one tire at a time and have the hose fully pressurized before starting. That way you take the time it takes to fill up the hose internal volume out of the equation.
If I may comment here sir this is what I understand and this is from my Training in Aviation Maintenance in general knowledge class:
Boyle's Law tells us that the volume of gas increases as the pressure decreases.
So with the increase in volume there is a decrease in pressure hence that extra minute longer to air up.
So this means that with the 1/4 inch ID hose volume is decreased but pressure is increased.
Better way to explain is a water hose if you close off the end with your thumb your are decreasing water flow and increasing pressure. Take your thumb off you increase water flow and decrease the pressure.
AKA also known as the “Venturi Effect”
3/8 hose you have high pressure low speed
1/4 hose low pressure high speed
This is my understanding of things maybe someone will chime in and correct me if im wrong.
You want to run a true test run 1 50ft 3/8" line to 1 tire, time 0-35psi then do the same with a 1/4" line. I guarantee you'll see the same 25% difference! The compressor isn't capable of creating the 35psi with a higher volume of air in the same time frame!
If and when you do an air tank I'm sure the 3/8 will be much faster. Because now the pressure isn't the problem it's the restriction of air flow . And as you've seen the 3/8 almost 3 times the volume a quarter inch airline does.
Unless the 1/4" hose is restricting flow, it will be faster than the 3/8". Basically pressue vs volume. Try it with your shop compressor.
I plan to try it with my shop compressor, and with a CO2 tank. Projects for this summer.
You could say the same thing as a exhaust system for a car. If the motor isn't able to push enough power a bigger exhaust does nothing and can even do worse for performance. Additionally in order to make more power, you have to get the ECU tuned to make use of the new variable in the equation. Essentially you need someone who know how to read those numbers and know how to change the control module for peak efficiency.
Well done for great testing, Have you considered tube expansion under pressure for the difference between hose size?
Only way I could see expansion making much of an impact is through the pulse theory I have that the larger hose isn't seeing the same pulse wave from the compressor, and hose expansion could play into that...
Helluva effort. It don't make sence to ne. I woulda bet money on greater delivery with the full 3/8" ??? I'm baffled. You couldn't have been more thorough.😮😮. You thimg the bounce of pulse coukd be the cause. I'm on your level of thought. Kool try. Dandahermit
There's a phenomenon in fluid dynamics call something like water velocity that may be at work here. I'm not a ME, and this is not a fluid so may not apply. Fluid speeds up when necked down. Also if you notice on some leaf blowers there's a fatter torque tube, then it necks down to increase velocity. Some of these may be in play here, however, just theories in play in my mind.
Thanks for doing the video and experiment!
Thank you for watching!
In addition to the extra volume, there's also an amount of stretch to the hose material. There is more hose material to stretch in the 3/8" hose during the first minute of the compressor pressurizing the system as a whole. The way to rule that out or prove it would be to time how long each version takes to get the tires to a nominal low pressure like 5 to 10 psi. I suppose you could rule out or prove the air volume argument by shortening all the 3/8" hoses by as much as possible and running a new test. Trough that would also prove/disprove the stretch theory.
Certainly possible....
Volumetric pressure causes less pressure per square inch in the 3/8 in the 1/4 inch there is less volume so and smaller hose causes the friction to be higher as the air is being squeezed down and pressurized higher so it escapes the hose into the tires faster as the pressure builds higher faster and the compressor is working less to pressurize
I wonder if it’s like you have a leaf blower and you leave the 4” end open feels like low pressure coming out then you put a small diameter end on the leaf blower the pressure coming out feels a lot more force.
This is a very welcomed comparrison. Glad you did it. Your results are confusing.??
Yup. Confusing for sure. I don't get it, but I'm glad I did it. Just moved to a new house and having a shop built. I'll do the CO2 test at some point here after the new shop is built.
@@EverymanOverland I'll be interested in your results. Dandahermit
Pressure in the hose can be boosted if you make the hose a 1/8 hose setup because it's pushing the air in a smaller cavity which causes Pressure to build faster
Have you built a system with 1/8 hose? I've never even seen one. I'd be curious to test that...
@@EverymanOverland I do not have one in 1/8 but I'm going to build one in 1/8 soon will cause the compressor to work less for more psi because once the hoses are full of air the psi the compressor has to put out is significantly less because it's no longer building the pressure in the hoses
@@EverymanOverland to give an example of volumetric pressure .. 3/4 inch impact wrenches that are pneumatic powered they need more air less pressure the larger the inner diameter of the hose the more air volume it can hold and push but the less pressure there is so for a 3/4 impact a 1/2 or even 3/4 inch air hose will provide more power to that pneumatic tool because it wants volume of air not pressurized air the Tool pressurizes the air it self when its consumed I'm the case of airing up tires you want more pressure then air volume because at a specific point the volume dosent have enough pressure behind it to inflate the tire no more so you want less volume more pressure in doing so you would want a smaller inner diameter hose like 1/4 inch or 1/8 inch because it will pressurize the air to a higher psi in a small tube which will boost the psi after the hose have full volume at that point the compressor is providing all of is pressure to maintain the hose pressure not volume.. hope that helps its like fuel injectors they atomize the fuel to build higher pressure for combustion in a engine the smaller the hole or cavity the higher the pressure builds...
you covered the majority of the puzzle in the video and the rest is in the comments. long story short, your biggest bottleneck is at the valve stems. the rest is moot. the aditional time comes from 3 things. 1: increased volume to fill. 2: more expansion from the bigger hose. 3: you can compress the same volume of air into a smaller space which will give you a greater PSI which means it takes longer to meet the same psi in the larger hose. if your interested, here's a great vid on testing the hose size. czcams.com/video/KBQpaUBMmGw/video.html
At any given flow rate, flow velocity is inversely proportional to the cross sectional area of the pipe. Smaller pipes will lead to higher flow speeds; larger pipes, will lead to slower flow speeds.
Sure, but flow rate doesn't mean more air is being moved.
Which moves more water, a mile wide river flowing at .2mph or the jet of water out of a pressure washer moving at 100mph?
Great video!
There are various issues.
First, the 1/4" (4/16) hose is 50% smaller than the 3/8" (6/16) hose. As a result, the 3/8" hose requires 50% more air.
Second, the chokes are the valve stems, and all the 1/4" fittings along the way on the 3/8" hose.
It would be interesting if you could run 2 more experiments. One from 1 to 10 PSI, and another one from 10 or 20 to 30 PSI.
I suspect, and I haven't validated my hypothesis yet, that this might have something to do with backpressure and how fast the reed valve is closing.
My suspicion is that with the larger hose, you initially do not have enough backpressure to close the reed valve in the compressor fast enough and you're actually not producing a lot of flow.
Did you perform a leak test on the 3/8" setup? Aside from the initial inflation of the 3/8" hose, the flow rate should be determined by the smallest restriction (the hose from the generator to the manifold).
Possibly another cause: As the air leaves the narrow high pressure and empties into the lower pressure high volume side, there should be a cooling effect. The cooler air is more dense and therefore requires more of it to create the pressure you are trying to measure. Maybe wait 30 minutes or so after inflating the tires to allow for any temperature differences to stabilize and take another pressure reading. I'm thinking the tires filled with the 3/8" hose might actually measure a slightly higher pressure after waiting; the extra time was simply due to moving more air than was needed?
I use a plastic hose, it is stiff and resists the pulsations from the pump and it is light in weight... Personally, I no longer use the rubber hose... I do not use a filling system, I only use one-line filling
I don't prefer the plastic hose, the coils. I find them difficult to keep organized, but if you like it, keep on enjoying!
It’s been a while since I studied engineering, but the compression of more gas could cause the 25% inefficiency. Can you try the same test again with 3/16” equipment? LOL
I don't think they make the pieces in 3/16...😂
Did you change valve stems if you use the same valve stems only so much air can pass through them it would be the same for both hoses
Nope. These are just standard valve stems. Your theory matches mine, I expected to see no difference, but we're both wrong. There was a substantial difference.
I believe the problem is the system is using the larger hose as a mini air tank that has to be filled before building enough pressure to overcome the resistance from the tyre valve.
While I hear what you're saying and don't disagree... When using one of these inflation systems, if you watch the pressure Guage you'll see it takes very little time to reach the stabilized pressure, normally about 10psi higher than what's in the tires, that then fills the tires. Like, it takes possibly a second. Then it steady fills at that slowly rising pressure at the 10 psi delta until you're done. When comparing the 1/4 to the 3/8, that rise in pressure is so close to identical as to be considered the same.
Wow this has been interesting. Dandahermit
My assumption is that the 3/8 hose has more internal volume to pressurise as well.
I also wonder if the 3/8 hose expands more than the 1/4 hose. Thus increasing the internal volume as well.
Looking at the wall thickness of the 1/4 and the 3/8 they look the same thickness. So I wonder if as the internal pressure increases in the hose the 3/8 hose is expanding more than the 1/4 hose. So air flow is limited. Was thinking about this like if you had a bulge in a brake hose, then your brakes go spongy has it can build pressure efficiently. So
Your results may not be that unexpected. Vague memory from Uni classes but if I recall correctly the speed of a fluid thru an orifice is inversely proportional to the section/area. Assuming the compressor provides relative constant pressure, bigger diameter = lower speed. I may be totally wrong though
I believe you're correct. However the orifice mentioned would be the Schrader valve in the tire. When the tire valve is the primary restriction, the hose acts as a manifold or almost like a storage tank. So correct that the air flowing through the hose will be moving at a slower rate if the volume remains constant. But if the volume remains constant because it's the same compressor doing the work, and the pressure in the lines is the same (if not a couple pounds higher) in the larger hose... Then the rate at which the vessel (tire) is filled should be the same. I think. But clearly no, so... My thinking hasn't helped. 🙃
It took longer because the wider I.D. Of the 3/8 hose’ air volume is larger than 1/4 hose.
Larger hose has larger internal air space, which requires more air to reach a set pressure. Just like a larger tire requires more air than a smaller tire.
Hmmm, yeah the volumetric difference isnt that much. How about trying this whole experiment with the valve cores out?
What I did with mine is change the port that comes out of the pump manifold. I got rid of the pigtail which in mine was a 1/8th fitting and drilled and tapped it to 1/4 and screwed the male fitting directly to it. It made a huge difference taking out that restriction. IId put a picture up if I could but cant with youtube .
Ya, taking the valve cores out would likely make a difference, but that sorta defeats one of the advantages of using a 4 tire system. I may try drilling and tapping the fitting in the compressor, then again, I may leave it alone cause I'm scared to screw it up...
If u use 1” hose it’d be slower again Bigger interior volume Probably lower velocity too.
Thanks for the video! Needed to know which to choose and you answered that. Did you like the way the swivels worked, do you recommend them?
Thank you for watching! The swivels were fine, they added extra length to that joint, and they were more expensive so I don't think I would do them again. They didn't seem to offer a lot of advantage over a fixed union.
You should combine the two together and drop down to smaller size after the rears/front section.
Ok... to explain.... your compressor doesn't have a reservoir, so the hoses are the resevoir. The 3/8" hoses are larger and hold more volumn of air, while the 1/4" hoses are more of a direct fill. It takes time to fill the larger hoses, but the compressor is also struggling to output the air necessary. The tire fill ports are also small and more suited for the 1/4" hoses/valves.
Increased the volume, takes more pressure from the compressor to push that volume of air. Don’t know the variables from compressor, but from plumbing background, that’s my guess
That seems to be the leading theory.
What are the dimensions of that case that you use to carry your compressor? I see you said it's an old ARB case. I'm wondering if Harbor Freight has an apache case similar in size.
Case #3800 might be orange
Kinda curious what the air down comparison would be between the 2. Will the 3/8 air down faster and if so does that time compare against the air up time. Who wins when comparing the whole cycle of the day.
I could certainly test that when I test the CO2 system. I don't use these systems to afford down, I just take out the valve core. I find that's the quickest, easiest way for me. But that's a good thought!
Exact question I'm looking for an answer to! These 4-way inflators also make it soo easy to air down compared to going tire-to-tire. If 3/8" is faster at air down by a minute, we're at a net zero. If the 1/4" wins again, then that's a big difference!
@@fasteddie1 I haven't tested the air-down as I don't use the system to air down. I expect very little difference as the pressure is so low compared to the compressed air, but I expected the 3/8 to be faster airing up, so you can't trust my guesses... 😁
@@EverymanOverland I hear ya. Well thanks for the video. It was surprising!
1/4 inch
What about if you hooked up both systems to an air tank compressor like a 2 gal or 10 gal tank? Would the result be the same?
I have a 30 gallon tank in the shop, I'll likely try that, as well as the CO2 tank. Just have to get around to it.
@@EverymanOverland Awesome!
Who is your favorite current F1 driver? For me it’s Charles Leclerc. (Just won in Monaco) :D
3/8 has 25% more volume, and with a piston non-tank compressor, you're raising the pressure of the entire system. So you have 25% more volume you have to increase the pressure in.
just wondering did you do a deflation test? the 3/8 may win that one
No, I came to the conclusion a long time ago that though it's possible to deflate with these systems, it takes so much longer than just taking a valve core remover and air gauge to each tire, that I never use them to deflate...
the 3/8 hose takes more Volume so the Compressor takes more time to reach psi same as if it was a bigger tire solved
So, here is the deal, 1/4" air hose will allow approximately 13.35 CFM while 3/8 " will allow 30.05 CFM. So, if your compresdor is only rated for 10.6 CFM I would bet you could cut down on the time by a fraction because even with the 1/4" it will not be 100% efficient so to speak.
So you're saying run smaller hose, or that the 3/8 should be faster?
(I think) it's because the bigger the hose = the (more surface area) the air has to touch on the inside when it moves = (more friction).
It's pressure vs volume. It's much easier to compress a smallest volume than larger. Thus why tires are measured in psi and not cfm.
Smaller hose is less volume and more resustance but the reduction of Id on couplers and valve stems so uh ??? My air tools run stronger on my 3/8" hose.? Hmm
Does nobody ever think that the Schrader valve is the problem? lol
Yes, absolutely that's the bottleneck in the system. They're good for about 1.5 to 2 cfm each. But they're a constant between these two systems.
Would be cool to hit some trails with you
Why the need to fill all four tires at the same time?
A few reasons. It's nice to run them all together as it gets them all the same pressure. The bigger compressors work better with a 4 tire system as they move more air than a single tire valve can take, so 4 at the same time is faster than 4 tires one at a time. And it allows you to leave the compressor at the front of the car instead of carrying it around, which you can also do with the liner single inflation hose. So, there are performance benefits, but a lot of it is also convenience.
it will take longer jus to air up the hose
At 175psi I can fill a 32" tire flat to 35psi in like 60 sec
Indeed you can.
There’s no replacement for displacement. Except for forced induction and smaller air hoses 😂
That's about right! 😁
Larger hose, Less presser.
I wish that I could get your parts list. I do not know how. Sad
Go to this video, the list is in the description. I tried to copy it here in my phone but I can't seem to highlight it.
czcams.com/video/CDnYhtWWRsA/video.html
If you’re using that tiny “compressor” their likely won’t be much of a difference because the limiting factor will be the “compressor” itself.
*there
It's not a tiny compressor, these dual cylinder compressors are currently the standard for high output portable compressors at around 11cfm. If it were the compressor, the two systems would have performed the same.
@@EverymanOverland I stand corrected thank you. I think the lack of a tank may reduce the ability to keep the line pressure consistent hinders the comparison though.
Pressure and volume, blow a balloon with mouth wide, now blow balloon normal, mouth tight, balloon will work.
I’m sure there’s a math calculation to figure this all out. They may have an app already for engineers to figure out the numbers when designing a system.
High Pressure with the 1/4 than the 3/8. No Different that the water hose theory, 3/8 will be like letting the water run and the 1/4 inch would be like pressing your finger on the hole. Larger = Slower Unless you taper the 3/8 fittings down to 1/4 inch to create the funnel pressure effect.. Volume of Air You Move does NOT equal the pressure that is creates the PSI
The small tube has higher pressure than the bigger tube, just like the human body, constricted blood vessels create high blood pressure!
L I K E 👍👍👍👍👍🤍💚❤🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩
Looks a bit rigged mate the engine was running for the quarter inch hose both times but not for the 3/8 the voltage makes massive difference when the engines running
I realized that when I started the test with the 3/8 that the engine wasn't running. So I stopped and reset and ran the test over, just didn't get good footage of it. I've actually run this test many times at different temperatures and running it in reversed order... I found the result so hard to believe that I've tried to figure out what I did wrong to get an erroneous result, but it always comes out the same. I'm not selling anything here, I gain nothing from one result or the other. I assure you it was not rigged.🙂
@@EverymanOverland thanks for going to the effort of replying. Sorry to come across like a doubter, I just noticed that discrepancy.
I trust your sincerity and appreciate the effort that people like you go to so I can jump on CZcams and see real world tests. Thank you
@@leighchamberlain25 ya nah man, we're good. Like I say I noticed that when filming that I forgot to start the engine, but the way my monologue ran into starting the compressor, there just wasn't any good way to splice the footage without recording it all over again. But ya, I've run that test so many times because it twists my head. I still plan to run the test again with a CO2 tank, and with 2 compressors, one for each side of the truck to see if I can find a point at which the 3/8 is better. I just haven't find the time. Life keeps getting in the way. But stay tuned, it'll happen this year. 👍
@@EverymanOverland I'll watch that for sure 👍