SNS 172: Mic Stand, Indicating Mic, Metric Threading
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- This week we try out a new Starrett micrometer stand which is helpful to hold mics for quick inspection work. I pull out one of my viewer given Polish made mics and use it to compare measurements on a few 1" gauge blocks. Last I share some video I filmed a few months ago of some single point metric threading, how to disengage the half nuts and then line back on the thread.
The gage block test reminds me of a quote: "A man with one clock knows what time it is - a man with two clocks is never quite sure."
What a nice surprise seeing my old mic again. I'm super glad you enjoy it. Cheers Adam, keep up the great videos.
+Craven12 This must be Mike! 👍🏻
That's a 10-4 good buddy!
Just recently started watching your videos Adam, after following the likes of AvE and John from NYC CNC for quite a while. Gotta say, you make excellent videos! Not high octane but instead thorough and rather relaxing. Added to that you seem like a great guy! Always humble and full of good advice.
Keep up the great work.
From an IT student who also likes working with his hands
+MrSidiox Thank you!
Another great video, Adam. Demonstrating the Polish mic--and things like it--keeps your channel interesting.
Cool comparative instrument from Poland there. Just a small correction; 1/10th of a ten-thousands is not a millionth, but a hundred-thousandth or 10 millionths. So the B&S is 20 or 30 millionth under and the other one is 60-70 millionth under. Its easy to get the mixed up in the zero decimals, so no biggie. Thanks for another good SNS. Watching you do threads, metric or other, is like watching a well choreographed ballet :-)
Ah, Andrew beat me to the correction.....
Yeah, not to find fault but it's 70 or 80 millionths not 7 or 8.
I think my brain gets confused that far out in the numbers
In USA You use Starrett, in Poland the best measure brand is VIS (in these days close). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pa%C5%84stwowa_Fabryka_Karabin%C3%B3w Like every single company in Europe was product arms..
krzysiek8903 VIS is still making fire arms.Latest creation is MSBS 5.56. Anyway your right VIS for us Poles is like Starrett to Americans.I'm a machinist myself and I got many VIS micrometers and calipers from my grandpa.I use them with care and they are my pressure treasures 😊
Thanks for the video! I came here for a closeup of indicating mics, and found a great tip on metric threading, and a nice summary of the indicator stand.
Thanks, Adam, I really liked your method for turning metric threads, I hope I can remember it when needed next time.
Thats a great tip on how to catch a metric thread after disengaging. I will try it on my metric lathe next time I need to do some imperial threading. Cheers
I love the threading trick on the lathe for Metric threads .. very nice caliper there , I like the way it will repeat parts ! Thumbs up Adam ..
+ShawnMrFixitlee Thanks Shawn
Wonderful video Adam, Thumbs up .....Bob. Have a good time at the Bash and may the best metal slinger win the 4 - Jaw belt...
Best tip I have seem on metric threading.
Excellent video Adam. Thanks for the tip about metric threading on an inch lead screw, I do a lot of metric stuff on my lathe I will have to give that method a shot next time.
Always entertaining, nice tutorial on the metric threading, thanks Adam
muy buen trabajo felicitaciones!gracias a usted mi presicion de aprendiz a mejorado mucho,gracias
Glad I caught this video, that was a nice coupla mics right there. I like the Starrett with the ten-thousands on a double thimble in red, going to look out for one of those. Indicator and dial mics are cool, but also expensive even pre-owned on eBay. Anyway, good video, good camera work and narration.
I have two metric micrometers like that, both from the very same manufacturers.
These Polish instruments are of a very high quality and can rival with most German made measuring tools.
I wouldn't want to miss them!
They weren't easy to get in the past, but since 'The Wall' came down, they can now be found on Ebay and such for a fair price.
Never hesitate if you have to opportunity to buy one!
Some of the East German and Russian stuff is now more and more available too, often for very great prices. Most of that gear is of very nice quality.
I now measure things with my Russian gauge blocks in 'Communist Metric' !
Paddy
Very good video. Thanks! I was taught to wear gloves when handling standards to discourage heat transfer and to prevent scratching the standard if you had any grit or dirt on your fingers.
thanks for showing how u thread something. was always curious how that works and now i know.
Both of those mics are pretty awesome! Great video as always!
The "correct" gauge block depends on the traceable level of uncertainty from a true standard [using lasers and fancy whatnot]. There are several grade scales but the newest scale [preferred for new gauge blocks] has tolerances for both flatness and length. Increasing in accuracy: as2, as1, 0, 00, K.
K is a special grade for calibration-lab use and has very tight flatness but wider length tolerance from nominal as it is intended to be used with its certificate for in house instrument calibration.[the cert will have the true length]
AS2 is for use on the production line, 0 is for inspecting setups, QC, and checking the as2 blocks; as1 and 00 serve similar roles but are for more critical areas like aerospace.
A nom 1" as2 can be +-24 millionths and flatness deviation of 10 millionths, 00 is +-3 and flatness 2.
They can also be made in several materials each with a different thermal expansion, conductivity, and hardness. Steel blocks with steel parts and steel mics is nice because they all expand at the same rate so good for relative measurements(temp can be neglected as long as they are all the same], and steel is more conductive than ceramic so the internal temp settles faster.
Ceramic wears much longer and for absolute measurements [calculated temperature compensation] it can have a very low thermal expansion coefficient.
I hope to God there isn't a pop quiz at the end of this!
Very very interesting! I love that repeating indicator!
good as always adam, liked the video during the week
It would be interesting to hold one of the gauge blocks between your fingers for a minute or so and see if the reading increases. I think the standard that was wrapped with a "plastic" to isolate the heat from your hand AND the hex shape keeps it from rolling away. Kinda like the reason a carpenters pencil is not round. Great video Adam...
Tom Lipton (oxtools) did just that in one of his videos. Surprising how much things grow just by touching them.
Sharklops pervert lol
When you start doing work that has tolerances less than +/-0.0005" (0.01mm) you have to work with a different mindset. For a start, there is the need for a temperature controlled environment. The machine tools have to be warmed up until their bed and spindle temperature stabilizes. The gaging tools and surface plates have to be calibrated. This is all reasonably easy with a bit of care. It becomes more interesting when you start doing "close" work.
When you start working on parts that are getting into the +0.0001"/-0.0000" territory the methods used must be exacting at every step to get consistent results. An example would be manufacturing fuel injector pintels for automobile engines. It is amazing that they can be made by the thousands every day.
I thought carpenter's pencils are not round because they come as a kit - you have to turn them round yourself... :P
Hi Adam, I also use this technique over here in Australia to cut TPI because all our lathes are metric leads. Expect I just put the machine in reverse without disengaging the lead screw and I've never had an issue with it not lining up perfectly with the thread.
Hi Adam. Great video as always thanks for your time and hard work. I've just found the same Micrometer stand on Ebay in the UK and it's on for £183.76 around $200. Looks like you got a really good price.
Very cool threading technique. It's like This Old Tony, only his lathe is smaller and can stop faster, so he just leaves the half nut engaged and stops the lathe.
+Greg Feneis Some jobs it's easy to leave it engaged but this trick is useful if you have a large shoulder you have to thread up to.
Exactly.
Thankyou for the videos. I wish i could work by your side and learn from you.
Adam - you're coming up on the big deuce-double-oh here. Got anything planned? Amazing - While not a machinist I've followed you for a really long time and really enjoy your laid back style, your meticulousness, your care to explain things. Makes me feel like I could machine something on a Bridgeport or a Monarch anytime :) The coops with some of the other machinists out there are great as well! Avon79 had me in stitches :)
Keep on keeping on. :)
+Mick Ohrberg Don't know yet, maybe I'll have some good stuff for ya.
Whoa, that's finer than frog hairs but I like the comparisons. Very nice video, thanks.
nice vid Adam :) It´s nice to see some metric from time to time as well for someone like me, across the "pool" :)
Hi Tom, I must use the same "Oxtool" technique when turning a English tread on my late.
regards from Holland.
Adam, if measurements get smaller/larger then tenth's, temperature is getting a critical factor, you should use special cloves at its measurement, because even the Mitutoya was expended the second time. Thanks for your easy to watch and great explaining in detail video's!
For what I was showing, it's just to represent the mic and tenth readings. I understand thermal growth but I wasn't getting that deep into the conversation.
That is a neat mic really cool !!
I finally found a price list for the rod (most industrial supply just have a call for quote) and was surprised that 1.5" chrome rod is only a couple bucks an inch. I can see why it wouldn't make sense to try to repair a damaged one.
"what r u doing saturday night?", they said. "I'll watch Abom's SNS, then I'll decide"
Im no machinist, but that is one sweet Starret mic, never seen one like it or the one from Poland as well, interesting.
Nice mic think I can get my hands on it now lol. I want to play with it too
Those Polish mic's are so cool. Always good to see the footage from work. Any updates on when you might be able to shoot more footage there? Thanks for another SNS.
Nice video Adam.
Do one thing for me Adam, put the gage blocks ( all of them ) in a owen and heat them up to 20 °C (68 °F). And measure them again.
I just watched Robert De Niro use one of those comparison micrometers on dice at a craps table in the movie "Casino".
That was a lot of mics/mikes. 😁
That Polish micrometer is pretty nice. If you had to work to the ten thousanth, I'd much rather that than a vernier type.
Another problem with welding the damaged hydraulic rod would be that it would be subject to rust at the weld repair areas.
Could you just use a grinding wheel and turn the diameter down slightly
....I was 'The Welder' in a machine shop that did a lot of hydraulic repairs. Some customers didn't want to replace the rod, so I did do a bit of stainless TIG work on these sort of damages.....still, no promise that it wouldn't rust, or last very long.
You can weld it, it's just a patch job. I think the time spent welding and turning could be used to machine a new rod like I did. I might do the weld repair just for video use though.
Great video Adam. Just so I am clear; you have a metric thread box with a SAE lead screw?
Polish micrometer wow you impressed me. iv seen one of this when i was in school, the teacher told us it was use in aircraft part production. you hold peace of history in your hands this think could be older then I am and probably you too. its from comunizm era am I the only subscriber from Poland ? any way as its now 00:25 in here and I'm watching the maschining video hey good to be crazy
No, You are not, the only one.
I'm Polish from NY
there's more precision tools made in Poland
+Tomek Pawłowski The Polish make some high quality tools. Even the cutting tools and tool holding tools are great! I'm happy to share his little piece of precision on my channel.
117 years after establishing first company "Gerlach i Plust" ... changed to "FWP" ... changed to "VIS", in 2015 firm was closed. Trade marak "VIS"was sold. Be careful, new tools whit "VIS" mark, can be produced in China.
Hej Im from Poland too
...12:30....I have a couple of these comparator mikes...0-1, and a 1-2....both are TESA...Swiss made...big $$$ of course...but I do have some Polish cutting tools that are top quality stuff...end mills and slitting saws..
So what sort of tolerances do standards have? Would these be considered "In tolerance" to each other? See ya next weekend! I am looking forward to meeting you at the Bash!
GREAT VIDEO !!
adam great tip.
Thought you were going to make a microphone stand. =D
I didn't know I wanted that Mic stand until now. They've discontinued it and I can't find one anywhere on eBay or anything
Hey Abomb when did you move to Sanfran lol other than your voice I thought I was watching Ox tools with Mr Lipton lol great video man
Can't you use stoodite rod for filler, or isn't it hard enough? It is made for hard surfacing and is much harder than 7018, etc.
or you could use the LEAD SCREW REVERSE like on the Monarch for this treading trick!
Fun fun fun
thubs up
Hi Adam. Could you use that spray-on metalizer/weld technique you've shown in the past on that sort of job? Just curious. I hope you win this year's Bar-Z bash! :)
The comparativie looks like it was made in Fabryka Wyrobów Precyzyjnych in Warsaw. It should be marked FBW or VIS.
+somebody1310 MR Tool Repair told me it's a VIS brand. 👍🏻
From 1947 to 1971 factory was called "Fabryka Wyrobów Precyzyjnych" and tools were marked "FWP". Since 1972, few companies were combined into new firm, and word/logo "VIS" were added.
MMcc is a type of micrometer with analog gauge (according Polish Standard PN-80/M-53202). They serve for comparative measurements, eg in mass production. "Plane" micrometer are marked MMZb.
Its saturday night and im watching a micrometer video... what is wrong with me?
Were all in the same boat. You'll get used to it.
Absolutely nothing.
You're a geek like the rest of us. Get used to it, and be proud of it!
Your just lucky!
I've gotten to the point in my life, I enjoy staying home, working, making videos, replying to comments, and going to bed early!!
Being a grinder I don't know shit about lathes, but with the way you turn them threads, almost seems like it's the only way you should do it.
What was the room temperature when you check this blocks?
Adam, I have a question. With that pitch, does the lathe have settings for that pitch or did you have to do a calculation to arrive at an english pitch matching the metric pitch?
Most larger/later model American or "imperial" lathes include metric thread pitches in the QC gearbox.
+William T. Musil The machine is set up with an imperial lead screw, 4 threads per inch. You must set the quick change gear box accordingly
Right. Does the Lathe have a metric pitch chart or do you have to calculate the quick change setting?
If the gear box has metric threads they will be indicated. There is no calculating done with a QC gear box unless you're shooting for threads that are not included. Some lathes require changing gears before the gear box to get those threads.
The machine is equipped to cut both imperial and metric threads without having to change the quadrant gears. It's all built into the quick change gearbox. That's one of the benefits of that particular model of lathe.
Could you not use those edge hardening welding rods, (the ones that are used to put a hard edge on soft steel buckets) to repair blems on hydraulic shafts? Or is that type rod TOO HARD to then machine?
The weld heat will likely damage the chrome beyond the filler metal.
Otherwise there are about 100 different types of hardfacing alloys for differing wear conditions, base metals, and shop needs[new part or field repairs etc], so it depends. Generally only the softest versions are machinable(with carbide only) and many are even difficult to grind and require cBN or diamond and even then some may gum up the grinder.
Next time see if you can detect a difference depending on the temperature of what is being measured. Maybe make notes for when things in the shop normalize in temperture at mid Summer and mid Winter.
Hello Adam, I saw in another video from a mitutoyo guy. and he say that on those block you need to use the measurement that is put on calibration certificate and not the nominal one.
How would you verify which one is the most correct ?
17:10 what reading do you go with 😩
run into this problem every so often when holding .00005". Then again, I've heard that measuring equipment should be x times more sensitive than the tolerance of a part you're measuring.
17:25 - You didn't demo the adjustment of the limit/tolerance pointers !
Old, good, Polish production. Still available in Poland. allegro.pl/listing?string=pasametr&order=p&bmatch=base-relevance-floki-5-nga-com-1-2-0614
Hey Abom. Got any tips for cutting large, corse threads on low hp machines?
+scott holt Sharp high speed tools with some side and back rake, use low gears.
Abom79 thanks I'll give it "another" try. Hey, for me it's all about learning and playing around in the shop. Your channel has been a great help to me and I'm sure many others as well, thank you
The only sure way to know it to use a standard that has recently been calibrated to the NIST (NBS) traceable standard. .
When judging a gauge block, keep in mind that they are sold in plus or minus sizing. They can be over or under the nominal stated size usually by .0001 sometimes more. Heat will also affect the size.
Why not just leave the threading dial engaged? I know there must be a reason or maybe I didn't listen well enough. Thanks for another good video.
In order to stop quickly going forward you have to disengage the drive but the dial keeps moving. To keep it engaged as you suggest you'd have to shut the motor off and HOPE you don't crash the tool while it coasts to a stop.
Thanks Dave, I knew there had to be a good answer but was drawing a blank. I suppose the best way to keep the dial engaged would be to turn the tool upside down, run the lathe in reverse and thread from left to right from the shoulder or groove. Good trick that Adam demonstrated; I'll have to try it.
Ellie, if you are threading to a shoulder and you keep the lead screw engaged you have to get the lathe spindle stopped before the threading tool hits the shoulder. If the lathe doesn't have a brake (like my bench lathe) or an iffy brake then spoiling the work is likely so disengaging the lead screw avoids that possibility. Backing up the lathe spindle till the thread indicator mark is reset re-synchronizes the spindle to the lead screw.
Just leaving it engaged would work , but doing it Adam's way minimizes crashing against the shoulder he was working with.
When I bought my Sieg SC4 bench lathe for my home shop I was disappointed that it didn't have a threading dial, and figured it must be an extra-cost add-on. No so: these mini lathes stop on a dime, so they are designed to be used exactly as you describe, never disengaging the half nut until the threading operation is complete. I still miss flipping the lever to catch a line or number, but this always-engaged technique is growing on me.
Isn't it possible that welding the rod it could warp as well?
James Stanlake yup
I must be watching too many keith Fenner videos
keith fenner videos are few and far between lately
+James Stanlake It always does. I bored this one .015 over standard size to compensate for the warpage.
I wish you well at the Bash this year with the challenge.
My boss will Not repair a dented/scratched cylinder rod. Besides the weld being softer than the parent material (as Adam stated), the weld process can cause the rest of the chrome plating to flake off later.
Once in a while the customer will cry about it, but in the end, it's our name on the repair.
Customers Never state the truth that they wanted it cheap and fast to their friends, it's Always the shops fault.
I guess you meant few hundered thousandth, not few millionth (around 15th minute)...
why do you have to back out , why not just reverse the lathe and chase the threads that way you would never have to looses your spot.. now i know there some obvious reason that i am probaly missing just cant think of them now
There's always play in the feed screw and the sled after changing directions so the tip of the bit would not engage on the exact same path. Id that makes any sense. That would cause the cutting tip of the tool to slightly misalign with the thread and it would break the tool.
+Scott Tyndall's Home Shop If your threading to a shoulder
My home lathe is designed to thread using Adam's technique--it doesn't have a threading dial. I have occasionally reversed the lathe without backing out the cross feed, and it doesn't do anything horrible, but it is clear that it isn't helping the threading operation. Think about how much material is removed during a spring pass...that would be the amount of material rubbing the wrong way against the tool bit in reverse.
i was simply thinking when i used my ridgid 300 pipe threading we never opened the head but that was also one time passes as well . as i stated in the beginning i probably was not thinking it all the way through
chris0tube I understand now not being a machinist I just simply did not know what may be obvious to to some
Fowler indicating mic.
Puzzle's me why you go from tenths to millionths by moving one decimal place. Obviously half a tenth is 5 hundredths, not 'millionths' on ANY scale ! Of an inch, it's one hundred thousandths - a 10 millionth. Or half a tenth (thousandth) is 50 millionths.
*hundred thousandth😢
I realize this is an older video, but I have a question about a Mitutoyo Caliper I'm thinking about getting.
How accurate is it?
They claim its good to .0005". Is that reliable?
When machining is it even possible to be that accurate? Am I overthinking this?
Thank you for all the amazing content you post btw. I love your channel.
Link on Amazon is here:
www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-500-196-30-Advanced-Measuring-Resolution/dp/B00WMKUUAQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1520376181&sr=1-2
Calipers are to be used as reference tools, they are good to at least .001. You need to use micrometers for any critical measuring needs.
Ah. I see. So no matter what, the micrometer is the goto tool when getting precise measurements. I thought a digital caliper could be used for that too. I'm glad I didn't rely on it. Thank you so much for replying to me. I love your videos. Watching one as I write this. "Truck Spindle Repair".
Come on Adam, you have the micrometer adapters to hold the thread wires, Why arnt we seeing some more action in the area rather than just the hardware store nut job?
This man is good at large tolerances. But it is obvious that he does not know how to differentiate between 100 thousandths and millionths