Everyone wins: Fanatec CSL DD vs Moza R9
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- These two small Direct Drives are the most important launches in a while. I prefer the CSL for the FFB, however the Moza holds its own and there are places where I much rather have the R9!
00:00 intro and disclaimer
00:30 prices and info
02:25 closer look
07:56 driving
09:46 conclusion
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Which one would you take?
Also take your mouse to the sub and like button!
Fanatec, because i wanna play GT7 too.
fanatec, i always loved this formula style rim
The R9 has a much better Quick Disconnect. If you're using a PC only it's a no brainer.
How it's the experience with R9 in Raceroom? Is there any issues?
Fanatec all day
Went with the R9 based on availability. Couldn't be happier with my choice, but I am sure I would have been just as happy getting the CSL DD considering I was going from a G29.
Sadly neither are sold officially in my country so my only choice to upgrade my g29 is the g pro sadly
And I say sadly cuz that thing is quite expensive
@@Puntatacosimuladores How much did you get your g29? The T300 is better!
If the wheel included in the new R5 bundle is any indication, I think Moza will have console support within the next year. At that point, it will be very difficult to make a case for the Fanatec. That said, Moza still needs to continue to build their ecosystem to counter the sheer variety of wheels that Fanatec offers.
It really depends where in the world you are. Fanatec CSL DD is €500 + €200 for the rally wheel which for me means €720 with shipping, taxes, everything (you could get the cheapest BMW wheel for €130 and then the difference is even bigger). Moza R9 is €500 + the CS wheel €329 and with shipping is €850 and that is quite a difference at this price point. But if you're in Asia then Fanatec doesn't stand a chance price wise.
@@filipruml Yes, but that is with the plastic QR, which is even worse than the aluminium one, and another bonus of the Moza at least in my book is, not being locked to the ecosystem and having to buy only their wheels/hubs. Since Moza takes the D1-spec QR and Fanatec requires the use of the Podium Hub (otherwise FFB doesn't work) with USB/aftermarket rims that already have buttons (LMP2/GT3/GTE).
Console-support is a thing and the bigger market. For PC I would rather suggest going for the VRS DFP or SC2 Sport since 9 Nm isn't enough, at least not for me.
@@Leynad778 I agree with you on that one. Sadly consoles are too locked too allow for much freedom when choosing the gear. And ass far as the torque goes sold my CSW 2.5 exactly because the 8Nm just didn't cut it, at least for me it was too weak. And the second reason was, I wanted to make my own steering wheels for fun, so now I am going to get the VRS or SC2. Still haven't made my mind up yet on which one to get, but probably I will end up with SC2 Pro in the end😅
@@nejcmirtic529 I own both and can't make a mistake whatever you choose. The SC2 Pro is (unnecessary) stronger, but I preferred the VRS till the July firmware came out. Now they are quite equal, SC2 Pro a hinch better for my taste, but the wireless wheel options and QR are the better reasons to go for it. Maybe not for long, since there was a VRS formula wheel shown during the Rennsport event. The SC2 Pro FFB is a bit more impulsive, some might say aggressive and it can hurt you. The VRS FFB is more on the "need to know" level also with less WTF-moments.
In most parts of the world Fanatec is a top choice as the amount of choices available along with different pricing tiers of gear which all pretty well interchange within their eco system and units are available that can work with PC, Xbox and Playstation with the same gear if gear is chosen correctly.
But one of the biggest things is that it is basically out of the box plug and play with only one cable going to the "system" and their software is easy for complete novices to initially set up and get to driving.
Sounds like over the long haul Moza may be vying for that same works with PC and console and are really concentrating first on markets which are not served well for one reason or the other by Fanatec.
More competition is good.
I started decades ago with Logitech gear and then moved up to Fanatec CSL belt drive and now have the 8nm Fanatec DD and have always been happy with my Fanatec gear and never had any failures.
The Fanatec Mclaren GT3 wheel is one of the best value buys in sim racing period!
I have my heart set on Fanatec, I just love how adaptable it is when it comes to compatibility, like for instance I play on both Xbox and Playstation, I can have one wheel hub, pedals, and shifters and all I have to do is swap the control hubs, so i bought two wheels and control hubs, and all i have to do is switch the usb from the xbox or playstation and vice versa, and swap the wheels, its oddly satisfying. also I love the selection of wheels for Fanatec, not too mention you can use real racing wheels on their control hubs.
Technically you don't even have to swap wheels. GT DD Base + Xbox Wheel + Pedals = works on all 3.
@@benjamincontant9531, I know. But it's somewhat satisfying to swap wheels, like if a car has more of a gt/F1 wheel I'll swap out my standard wheel. And vise versa.
Money man
Great review 👍🏻
im perfectly happy with my CSL dd and not gonna sell it anytime soon. but its very nice to see tough competition for fanatec that being said i thing better comparation with would have been bmw gt2 v2 or RS wheel both 350€ moza cs is 300€ but has tax excluded so price would probably be pretty close those fanatec wheel are way better than anything paired with csl hub
Competition is good. Makes everyone step up their game. I’m more than happy with my DD1 and F V2 rim and V3 pedals. I love it. I’m gonna use them till they die lol. Then by then hopefully they’re be a DD3 and V4 pedals. And a F V3 rim lol
Well what about the Fanatec Formula V2.5 in comparison to that Moza wheel? You still think the Moza wheel is the best?
Fanatec needs to get their stock sorted. Chip shortage is not a valid excuse anymore. Companies that still claim chip shortage are just trying to keep the prices up.
If Moza keeps improving while Fanatec is sitting completely still and not shipping out and thus no revenue, this will be the beginning of the end for Fanatec. The only thing that is keeping Fanatec alive is their eco system. Moza is improving enormously and will be a very tough competitor.
Keep up the good work Moza.
and Fanatec: get. your. stock. sorted.
Been loving my Moza R9 and the CS round wheel. They also released a bunch of products last week with a new Formula 1 wheel with a screen. A 5.5nm base, pedal and wheel bundle called the R5 for 599 USD. Incredible value for a DD setup
I made myself wait until I had moved from Xi'an to Changsha, and gotten my first salary at my new job before upgrading on the G29 I bought in early 2021. For about 6 months I had various CSL DD and GT DD Pro options in my Taobao cart and was convinced I would get Fanatec. When it came to purchasing though almost all the sellers had either run out or were charging mind-boggling prices (18000-30000 rmb).
I had watched Ermin Hamidovic's review of the GS wheel and had Moza in mind as an alternative. Low and behold, Moza had an offer on their R9 packages. Something like a 23% discount. I got the R9, SRP pedals (3 pedals), and the CS wheel for the Chinese equivalent of £650. The same package if bought in the UK would be nearly double including shipping.
Pretty happy with it so far. The difference in power compared to the G29 is immense although that is probably not too surprising. The pedals are, for me, the weakest point. I bought the loadcell accessory kit separately and I would strongly urge anyone looking at an R9 package to do the same. The out of the box brake pedal is far too soft. I now have the stiffest spring and damper in the accessory kit and it feels much better.
Fanatec seems to have the worst supply chain issues of all wheel manufacturers.
I will probably buy a full Moza Setup early next year.
I got the moza r9 with the gs wheel loving it .
Fanatec almost impossible to get here in New Zealand 🇳🇿
I reckon fannatec will be hurrying to get something done if the moza gets a console port and a wider rim ecosystem. The more hardcore console market (usually F1 game players or gt7 players) is something that the CSL dd has a firm grip on currently and needs competition imo.
Have any of you been able to check the experience with Raceroom with R9?
Had the r9 for 2 days, broke down.
Dealer had to send the unit to China.
So went with the Amini, all good so far.
Not sure how many people would like this info and whether it is possible to give a decent opinion about it but I would be interested how these wheels perform in games like WRC10/DR2.0 or is the mixed surface the issue? RBR could also be an idea but ffb feel on that one might be a bit old to see the differences... maybe?
did they already change the look of the csl dd slightly? the back and front of mine look different from yours RC. Mine has no holes on the front and no blue ring on the back
Mine is more square as opposed to round like yours. Guess you got an early access version or something?
the one I have is the dd pro. ps compatible csl dd. they are the same base.
Saving up for a new sim rig after moving, planning on getting a Moza R9, still unsure about the pedals though
Look at the Simagic Alpha Mini!
advertises 10NM. But measured at 13Nm
Officially.
I don't recommend Fanatec at all
But Moza Is ok
However
For Size/Strength/FFB detail AND a whole Ecosystem available (Wheels/Pedals/Sequential Shifters/HandBrakes/Software)
Simagic is For better than both Moza and Fanatec. Take a look !
As Moza bases are PC-only, and assuming you only plays in PC, you can use any pedals.
At very least Thrustmaster T-LCM or Fanatec CSL pedals with loadcell. Some say Moza's SRP pedals are a bit too soft, but you can take a look on them as well
I'm perfectly happy with my CSL DD and not gonna sell it. Although it's good that Fanatec has some competition. There are some products which they should upgrading instantly, incl. the QR and the handbrake.
And their CSL hub. I like Fanatec but paying that much for a (quality) hub like Clubsport or Podium is stupid when most of the other companies will give you a QR for like €70 and then you can mount whatever rim you like.
@@filipruml I agree. The CSL Hub became an instant no buy, when I seen how much the paddles twist when shifting at the ends of the paddles. It shouldn't cost much more if they made some parts with studerier materials. Aluminum paddles instead of egg crate plastic, would be a good start.
Perhaps they should have made a traditional plate, up to the standard of the McLaren wheel, and given it the option to use the advanced paddle module.
Side note. Fanatec needs to make a Universal phone bracket, seeing that the latest drivers support telemetry and tuning on the Fanatec phone app. The Ebay holders don't give me a lot of confidence.
Thank you for the critical review. Currently have the CSL DD with a formula v2.5 wheel and was looking to sell for the moza FSR formula wheel with the R9 base. I only play ACC and now convinced if I lost a bunch of detail I would have regretted my decision..
It’s a clearly better choice. The R9 is. Just don’t overdamp it.
Aussie here, fanatec has a distribution Wearhouse and repair workshop in Victoria, Melbourne, Australia.
Distribution in regional Vic Bendigo, with repair in NSW (Bangalow)
Had my R9 7 months now, loving every day with it, iRacing with irffb is a must.
I've had my R9 for one month, it is beautiful without irffb.
@@theRooster722 Its 10x better with irffb though.
@@AdamMickMannis what is irffb? sorry noob question, new to this!
@@Engrishhard iRacing Force Feed Back
@@note7146 R9 has IFFB :)
Will you compare the Logitech g pro to these two please
Anybody has any idea if after 8 months still csl dd feels better than r9 in ACC?
Fanatec DD were constantly sold out when I was looking. Went for Thrustmaster TS instead. Very happy with it
Isn't that a belt driven wheel?
@ yep. I gave up waiting for a DD. The TS works very well for my needs
@@Lakedistrictrider Great if you're happy with your choice.
I think I'm fine with the wait time for CSL DD to become more in stock. Gives me plenty of time to save up, this stuff is expensive.
I have the r9 and can say acc is absolutely fantastic on ffb I can catch the rear and feel the rear slipping and can feel the point of grip giving out with the r9 I'm confused to see why people can't feel it but I have come from a t300 and not tried a csl DD
Same experience. Coming from csl DD.
the Alpha Mini really make these two obsolete for my needs
The Alpha mini with wheel will be some 300 to 400 quid more expensive.
@@randomcallsign oh, right. I guess it's only as cheap if you attach an aftermaket buttonless rally wheel
Yeah, but even so, it isnt deteriment to the alpha mini. At this price point, Id just say, buy what you like the most :P
The Alpha mini is a good wheelbase.
Fanatec 8nm + mclaren wheel = 799,00 us dolars on the fanatec website, that's the only cheap thing that I found available. Alpha mini with GT wheel bundle is 930,00 us dolars or 1020,00 with formula wheel, on sim motion website. Am I missing something here? The difference is at most 220,00 us dolars. That makes it a hard choise. Especially if you are going to add the better QR from the fanatec.
@@EdyAG90 indeed. There's people who buy the DD Pro for PC, the metal QR and also upgrade the paddles on the Fanatec GT3 wheel, which makes no sense doing instead of just buying the Alpha Mini with the FX rim
When i wanted to buy the CSL DD it wasn't available so i bought an Alpha Mini. Now i tried both i am very happy with spending some more money :)
What's are the main differences in your opinion?
@@dembol Simagic wheels make Fanatecs look and feel like toys.
I got the Moza R12 and wheel. Total was under $900 at my local Microcenter. If I was going with Fanatec, I would have to spend close to $1500. Super happy with my Moza R12
Is the CSL-DD powerful enough for heavier Fanatec Podium wheels (for example Porsche Podium wheel)? I'm thinking about switching from Thrustmaster TS-PC but i would like to have more "premium" wheels :)
Yeah the 8nm version is. You will lose some.
I came from Thrustmaster straight to a Simagic Alpha Mini. Haven't looked back since. Give Simagic a look
@@randomcallsign That's good to hear! Maybe I'll give Porsche Wheel a try :)
@@ns_racing I don't know why but Simagic seems to be a little too much in development stage for me :) But don't get me wrong - I've heard that it's a superb base! Also, wheel selections doesn't fit my needs (no big 32cm wheel).
@@dembol save up homie, its worth it. And Simagic just came out with a bunch of new wheels.
Just switched to the R9 because I couldn’t get the CSL DD to feel right. No feeling of what the rears are doing in ACC. The R9 is in comparison bliss! Super detailed and got it failed in in few laps. It feels stronger alround and no more worrying about that QR. I am more precise now and can load up the tires to limit of grip which I couldn’t do as easily with the CSL DD. So what’s bad about the R9. It oscillates and I stopped dialling it out and just went with it. You can stop oscillations by just holding the wheel lightly. Random propably did not tweak the FFB? The stock GTsettings are quite bad.
There is something wrong with dampening on the CSL DD that I haven’t figured out.
The FFB was tweaked for all games. It did not give rear feel nor suspension loading. I did not use any pre-recorded FFB settings from Pit House
@@randomcallsign Wow how different we can perceive FFB. You need to dial out almost all damping.
I just play ACC and sometimes AC.
My son plays just F1 22 and says the same thing. Easier to catch slides and feels better.
ACC ffb is only sending signals front the front wheels which is why rear wheel feeling might be lacking. It's the most realistic ffb. So perhaps the Moza is actually transmitting this more accurately and the CSL is somehow colouring the ffb (can't really see how that could be though, it can't be producing a signal from nothing).
Yet I somehow perceive what chassis is doing on the R9. Especially noticeable on Porsche. This is much more muted on CSL DD or non existent, depend# on car.
Fanatec is fine as us console players only have Fanatec to use for real DD. It amazes me that no other big name has taken console into consideration. I have recently preordered my Fanatec since no one else has announced any plans for console
I just got finished watching my own little super cut of Random Callsign's CSL-DD and R9 videos. And I have changed my opinion. Recently I was preaching if the R9 was available when I bought my CSL-DD, I'd have an R9, but my CSL-DD has been an unsung hero for me. The thing hasn't missed a beat, and is always strong and very detailed. I'm happy with the Fanatec base, and getting a metal QR1 made the experience better, now that I don't have to worry about one of my wheels breaking at the quick release. So, I recant my earlier stance on the CSL-DD. I got a damn good wheel base.
I just hope Fanatec gets in gear, and fixes it's customer service, supply and quality chains. It's become vouge to cast hate on the brand, due to these shortcomings. They also could use an upgrade to the Formula wheels and more reasonably priced options. But for the moment, I'm good with my McLaren GT3/WRC wheels
Love this video
Id take either. Still using logitech & probably always will...
😢
i got moza but id would like to get fanatech
I have the DD Pro, and am happy with it, BUT ... Fanatec's after-sales support is almost nonexistent. They have been riding high on the fact they had the market virtually to themselves.
I'd have happily bought a Moza setup but for the fact they do not have a console version. Fanatec are in big trouble when a solution is found.
The winner is most likely the one that actually has things in stock to buy, not looking at anyone in particular…
If the only difference between the csl and ddpro ps compatability, then why does it cost $100 more for the dd pro?
because of the compatibility
@@randomcallsign and not charge extra for the xbox capability?
@@wickedsimracing4mentalheal503 did not know that about the licensing, so Microsoft doesn't unchanged them then I'm guessing
@@dennisb7317 Microsoft's fee can be seen if you compare the Clubsport Universal Hubs prices. It's $20.00 USD. But you have to pay that fee for every steering wheel you want to use on the console, and you will not be able to use all the features of that steering wheel.
PlayStation licensing is very expensive! It’s not Fanatecs fault
I want my MOZA!!!!🤩 BYE BYE Fanatec......
The one reason that I wouldn't buy the moza or other cheap direct drive base is because I play on both PS4 Pro and PC. I need the console support
thats why the DD PRO is for
@@randomcallsign I am aware of that. But it would be good if there was alternatives instead of FANATEC for consoles too.
These rivals for Fanatec and Thrustmaster need to start going after console licensing as well. I will only consider a setup that is multiplatform.
Why. These are sim racing wheels. Why would anyone buy a sim wheel for console arcade games?
@@truantray Well the thing is some of the games/sim we play often in PC are also avaliable in console, so why not?
Fanatec CSL DD with PS5 wheel been OOS in europe for months. Really bad situation.
Simagic Alpha Mini is better than both of these guys.
I love my csl DD and i am glad i chose Fanatec (I also have 2-4 day shipping because i live close to Hamburg where it gets shipped)
The Moza needs to be tweaked out of the box with the software app. The default settings are not on point. It’s game changing when you find your comfort.
I just bought the gt dd pro too. Moza looks really premium too. I’m new to sim racing.
Before I bought my dd I was about to buy a moza until I saw the shipping cost....
I can't believe you changed the title.
I guess Fanatec called...
Simracing comment section: where everything is a conspiracy and not about CTR 😘
Why is this even a debate at this point? Base and feedback feeling is pretty much the same. But that is where it ends. Fanatec has a wider range of wheels, paddles and other accessories. Moza isn’t just there yet. No console compatibility, just a few wheels and one really worth buying. Give it a few years though and these comparisons will be a bit more fair on Moza imo.
Considering that the Fanatec DD works on console, specifically with GT7, I'll stick with Fanatec.
Consle locker…🥲
Moza has to come out with a more affordable open/GT wheel and D shaped wheel. Cut back on all the bells and whistles with the wheels and just give us the buttons. Also sell the R5 base separately. 950 CND$ for the the R5 bundle and the pedals aren't loadcell and the wheel isn't a gt style
$ to $ consle =T248
PC to go Moza
Just forget about F brand.
They are still lock you into their rim cost.
Think about it!
Who's the hard-thinking guy in the thumbnail🤔Looks like you a bit.
It's a me, rando
Everyone complaining about MOZA not having console support. You do know once they have console support the price will be going up $100 roughly. It’s a pro and a con
i used both wheel base , gt dd pro with F1v2.5 and Moza R9 with their GS wheel
and i like the dd pro more due to the support over all title, not just SIM title, like simcade title , e.g. F1 games, FH series etc.
in those title the fanatec perform way better than the moza due to lack of offical support
the only thing that moza really destory fanatec is there QC system, which fanatec need to answer with their QR2
so i think it really depends on what you play most
for my case, I play acc, ac and F1 games mainly, so the fanatec is a better choice for me
For me the R9 is noticably more precise. I can really feel the chassis doing it’s thing which I didn’t on the csl DD. F1 series is supported my boy races just F1 22.
as they have more affordable ecosystems
Logitech realize they will be the next victim
probably don't give a damn since they can still make a bag with their funny rgb keyboards and mouses
I take that back they have a direct drive wheel now
your noise gate cuts you out a lot.
Yuge
Fanatec’ s ecosystem is what gives it an advantage
Spoiler alert: they are all in trouble. The sim racing bubble is over.
Not even close.
I don't think that a slightly better wheelbase is enough to beat fanatec here. Moza's steering wheels are few, expensive and not that appealing, a CSL DD + MclarenGT3 is cheaper than the Moza with the CS wheel and that's with the VAT excluded prices on their site. In my opinion the fanatec combo appeals to a much wider audience.
Also the 99€ quick release from fanatec is absolutely useless until you have more than one steering wheel, I have been trashing my 8Nm DD with the plastic QR and have had 0 issues or weird noises.
Congrats to Moza for making a better QR system and really good wheelbase but that alone is worth absolutely nothing if their price proposition is at best worse than Fanatec that spends millions advertising their stuff.
BTW I'd love to see a video on different table mounting solutions, there's a huge community for it on some forums, and no proper reviews of the Clubsport clamp or compatibility of the R9 Clamp with fanatec wheels
The shaft and the QR system on the CSL DD really, really suck. This is the reason why I sold my CSL DD after using it for one month. A bent shaft and a clunky QR are massive deal breakers, at least for me. Also, I've seen pictures of broken CSL DD stators, because they are made out of plastic. I replaced my CSL DD with an Alpha Mini, but I can see the Moza being much more reliable in that sense.
Also, just because you haven't had issues with the plastic QR, it doesn't mean it can cause issues for others. The Moza way of doing it is not prone to any of those issues myself and others had with both the plastic and metal QR. Furthermore, no one really needs 15 different wheels to choose from. As long as there's one reliable option for each type of rim, there should be no issues.
@@wickedsimracing4mentalheal503 Well you can't and I never did, since the Mclaren one is a third of the price after tax, I was comparing to the CS, which for my use case is still worse and considerably more expensive. Won't take a budget lineup seriously when their cheapest wheel is 300€ + tax
Moza. For when Fanatec is out of stock 😂
fanatec still cant deliver ? haha .... i think they ruined their own business till bankrupcy so go for Moza, got my R9 ..... its awesome !