Latest and Greatest in Moto Safety | HSLS S08E08
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
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Motorcycle Safety Tech has made some BIG leaps in the past several years. Who better than gear-guru Pat McHugh to fill Zack and Spurg in on the biggest advancements, how they work and if they’re right for you!
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0:00 - Opening
0:30 - Motul
1:05 - Quad Lock
2:10 - Airbags Save
2:49 - Intro / Not The News
11:15 - Welcome Pat
13:36 - New Safety Innovation Coming Down the Pike
33:58 - Airbags, the Newest, Biggest Innovation
1:02:36 - Middle Break
1:03:14 - Trends in Gear, Gear Getting Worse?
1:17:36 - Gear Choice If Money Was No Object
1:34:01 - Future of Gear?
1:39:34 - Rev Trivia
1:49:26 - T-Shirt Winner
1:52:16 - Listener Comment
1:54:44 - Final Thought - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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Don’t miss out on the latest Moto news on Common Tread rvz.la/4dwxd02
I've ridden my entire life. Raced too. Motocross, desert, and finally road racing, taught racers as well. My dad told me that those who talk tough are so often those who have never actually been in a fistfight. I've found that to be true. After high siding at 140 and airlifted unconscious to the trauma center, knocked out my front tooth, I know firsthand the value of great gear. Wear or don't wear what you wish. I often told students at the track school who bitched about having to wear a back protector in 110 heat, "Hey you only need to wear safety gear when you know you're gonna crash. Otherwise, you can ride nude, I just don't wanna see that." I wear a helmet because one saved my life. I wear an airbag vest because I don't feel I have the strength to be like Wayne Rainy or Chris Reeves (RIP). A broken bone I can deal with. Life-altering injuries I don't think I can. I often ask people who tell me they have the skills that prevent them from needing things like that, "So do you put your kid in a car seat? If so why? I'm going to assume you have the skills to prevent crashing, so drive with your kid on your lap. That's how my dad drove me around back in the day." Anyway wear what you want, I do.
Addendum: I wanted to add that I have tested and deployed the following airbags: Helite Turtle 2, eTurtle, HMOOV backpack, Mo'Cycle pants, Alpinestars 3 and 5. I tested the DAir but was not able to deploy. Currently testing the KLIM, Rev'It, and HELD. Because no retailer I know of (brick and mortar) offers all of these, it's important that letting people know what I find is important along with fit and heat. And the general thought that Helite is tethered only is wrong.
Where can one read about your findings to the tests that you speak of above?
I’d love to hear your findings. Thanks.
My wife just told me apparently I do more house chores when you guys post a new podcast episode (I only need my ears and therefore try to get busy while listening) and is pleading that you do it at least once a week
Zack’s position on gear choices for MC jacket solutions contending with wet conditions are 100% spot on, I could never reconcile the waterproof liner approach that leaves the outer jacket to soak while contending that the liner will keep the rider themselves “dry” was ridiculous. I mean near everyone understands how a condom is intended to work, and feeling “wet” is what makes that protection a practical choice. The reality is a soaking outer jacket is going to offer the wearer the sensation of being wet when in fact they themselves are not in direct contact with the wet surface
Thank you Europe for your safety standards!
I finally nailed the engine sound guessing game !!! Killer 650 !
Honestly, I was way too excited to get it right during the episode too ha!
Am a 2 year user of the Alpinestar Tech 5. Great product & highly recomended. I never drive without my airbag vest anymore.
I have tested it:
The Classic: i thought my sidestand was activated but not.
300kg comes fast!
Stand still fall over.
My airbag deployed no injury & no problem!!
LS2 has really step up the game not only in great helmets, like versions with already installed communication system and their racing Thunder model. But also now with great riding gear like jackets, pants, boots, gloves, their Norway model is just awesome for adventure riding 😊❤❤.
Keep up with great work RevZilla guys making our working days shorter with awesome podcasts 😊🤟🤟🤟😍 Greetings from sLOVEnia 😂
So, here's the thing, from a statistician point of view, about the MO helmet law: You can remove all the confounding factors from the data easily. Look at death rates of helmet/vs no helmet as a function of crashes, not of miles driven. This will normalize those rates, and make the probability of crash being fatal resistant to any and all changes in crash rates (which are influenced by a great many other things).
Short of it: the data shows that in the even of a crash, wearing a helmet makes fatal injuries a lot less likely. This change in probability applies no matter the cause of crash, or any other factors influencing the crash. "How many of those crashes involved cars/alcohol/unlicensed riders" is irrelevant, as helmets decrease fatality rates across all modes of crashes.
It’s wild how some people are this obtuse about helmets. Just fucking wear one!
If a helmet just works, it won't show up in their statistics as I heard them
Hearing Spurg compare Dell and Gateway made me feel old haha. Can't believe no one said, "Dude you're getting a Dell!"
My justification for buying an airbag is that it's a lot more expensive to pay for hospital bills in the US.
Great content and great guest today!
For me, all gear all the time! When a bird splashes on your helmet at 120 mph, you know why a helmet and other gear is important. Talking from experience.
Hey thanks!
Another issue is wearing it under a jacket in the summer. The ideal airbag should be standalone, if they can’t have elbow protection using airbags yet, they should use an armor/airbag hybrid technology to avoid the need for an additional jacket.
GREAT OVERVIEW ❤❤❤❤
I hit a deer 3 weeks ago at 50mph and the only reason I’m here is because I had all my gear on. Still ended up with a broken wrist and a fractured pelvis. No road rash and I can walk with almost no trouble, so I’ll call that a win. Had a screw put in my wrist and gotta wear a splint for a while, but compared to the alternative there’s no argument. I slid on my face for I don’t know how long, without my full face helmet I wouldn’t have a face. Wear what you want, it’s your choice, but you can’t predict everything that’s going to happen.
Know what you mean. I got punted (T-boned, actually) by a kid in a Mustang (what else? LOL) about 2 months back. Scraped my boots, wrecked my jacket, holes in my gloves, lots of gravel rash up one side of my helmet (not required in my state, but I find it so uncomfortable without one, so I never go without.) End result - a few scrapes on my leg, a broken hand, and a broken shoulder (different sides - that's how my luck goes.) And that's all. Should be healed up well before riding season is over. Now, if only I could get the bike repaired that quickly.
They were Sedici gloves, can’t remember which ones, but they were for summer riding and like 80 bucks. A-stars Halo drystar jacket, Klim Carlsbad pants, Arai XD-4 helmet and A-stars corozal boots. And yeah the airbag pants would’ve solved the pelvis injury more than likely. I didn’t make any contact with the bike, it kind of slammed me down on my left side when I hit the deer and continued on its way to the right with the deer, I didn’t go airborne at all. My hip was the first thing to contact the road, I don’t think I even put my hands out, the backs of my gloves are where all the damage is, my arms ended up tucked up against my chest so the hard sliders are what contacted the road, palms and wrist are pretty much untouched.
Love my Tech-Air 5. Feels like a big safety hug when I am gearing up for a ride.
The tech-air 5 did deploy on my when practicing slow speed maneuvers when the bike & I went down. What and experience!!
My 20yr old is starting g to ride, and I am buying her a Tech-Air 5 also.
Hey guys, good show. Want to address some comments on the airbag topic as I feel you glossed over a lot of brands and information outside of Alpinestars. First, motorcycle airbags initially borrowed the tethered system from the equestrian market. One of the leaders there and that still make several motorcycle airbags is Hit-Air, who was not mentioned. You also glossed over In@motion with a flip comment about their subscription program, but without commenting on their lower cost to entry on the Klim airbag in the US, or the Held and several other brands in Europe. Finally, Pat's comment that he can't wear an airbag on his commutes because it's too hot. That's a mental thing. Gear accordingly and wear the vest. For reference, I live in the deep south, and have worn an airbag (tethered and electronic) for over 6 years on every ride and my bikes are my only form or personal transportation. I'm also an MSF Ridercoach and with respect to gear, two mantras I tell my students; "Sweating is easy, skin graphs are hard"; and "There is no bad weather, just bad gear".
Glad to see someone mention Hit-Air. I bought mine because I liked that it has even more head immobilization than Helite's offerings. When it comes to summer heat their design is more open than other airbags so it doesn't impede the vents or mesh of the jacket underneath. Hit-Air has pretty good availability in the equestrian realm, it is a shame they have barely any US distribution for their motorcycle products.
On the us getting the worse version. Scorpion releasing an excellent and well priced helmet with ECE cert, and the US gets to pay hundreds more for a similar helmet missing features and only DOT cert.
European ADF9000 is available for around 1/2 hte price of the xt9000 the US has to buy, and has extra features.
26:43 thank u Zack for saying it out loud!
I live on the Canadian Prairies. We don't get 100 degree days. In fact it rarely gets as high as 85. There is a lot of riding in 50 degree weather. It makes it easy to choose the AAA multi layer riding jeans because they're the warmest pants I have.
Great show!
I would enjoy if in podcast description you could add links to gear mentioned in the episode. The it would be way easier to check out what you are referring to.
I live in a helmet-optional state, so I plan to import an ECE Shoei. It already seems pretty rare, even in mandatory helmet states for someone to get in trouble for a non-DOT helmet, and I never hoon on public streets so it's rare that I would ever be close enough for an officer to even consider checking, and that all adds up to a vanishingly small chance that I will ever get in trouble for my helmet. And even if I did get a ticket, that seems like a small price to pay for the peace of mind of having a helmet made to the latest and greatest safety standards.
If you live in a helmet-optional state there's no reason they would ticket you for wearing a non-DOT helmet when you could literally be wearing a baseball cap.
No ECE, no purchase. Also you can just buy a DOT sticker. Wouldn’t recommend it, and definitely not giving advice but you can do it
@@nothingtoseehere93 my Shoei X14 isn't ECE, almost every Arai helmet isn't ECE either.. yet Marc Marquez crashed how many times wearing an X14 and he's still riding?
Well I purchased an Alpinstar. Air tech 5 vest and the first ride out I hit a deep pavement rut at 20 mph and was thrown about ten feet and bounced off my chest. I had a leather motorcycle jacket and riding jeans. I end up with a groin pull and sore ribs. I have no doubt that my injuries would have been much worse had the air bag not gone off. I sent the vest out and got it repacked for $179. And will always ride with it.😊😊
I’m a little bummed they didn’t talk about false deployments with airbags. I’d like to know how common that is. My local dealership said it may not be as uncommon as you’d like, and then you need to spend $180 to have the airbag reset. In the case of Alpinestars tech 5. I still think I’m gonna get one. Always love highside lowside!
The helite doesn’t activate under 17kph and is user serviceable
Yeah, sadly “false deployments” isn’t a readily accessible stat to go off of. I ask brands all the time but haven’t gotten anywhere with it. Most are just word of mouth which are no where near reliable enough to base anything off of.
Why I went with an option that you could refill yourself at a reasonable cost without having to send it in.
You guys forgot to mention that you can also do an outright buy for the klim/ in&motion airbag vest. Also I disagree that motorcyclist are concerned about being on the bleeding edge of tech.. how many riders keep a helmet wayyy too long.. otherwise I love what you guys do for the community and I loved all these topics as an apparel manager for a local shop.
I bought a textile Rst sabre airbag vest last year when I started riding. It does use the in&motion subscription system but it was the best choice for me then and even now. The purchase of the vest with three years of subscription was a lot less then buying a seperate vest and airbag system.
An added benefit was that I wouldnt be in too deep money wise when I wasnt sure if motorcycles was a hobby I really wanted and could enjoy on the long term without cheaping out too much on protection. I just did my first track day past week and it covers that use as well (on a very beginner level).
I might switch it to another brand now that it seems the tech air system is improving a lot (coverage, ease of use and not having to send it in for the refill and a mandatory two year inspection).
I very much sign in on the opinion to amways use gloves with palm sliders.
Living in Europe we do seem to get (eu demands it basically) more information about products.
You could always attempt to find the detailed information if they are selling the same product in the US.
I think when it comes to the safety stickers on something it is not that people don't think that something is unsafe without the certification it is that there is ambiguity. You can't really verify the safety of a piece of equipment like that until you destroy it and nobody wants to be the test dummy in their own experiment with their own dollars.
I can't ride without my gear. Need the jacket so my shirt doesn't billow behind me - or flap around and whip my arms and neck...or make me too cold by blowing at 60 mph onto a wet, sweaty shirt. Handlebar grips feel weird and too small without gauntlets. Shifter gives my left foot blisters when not in sturdy boots. But helmet is the biggie. Keeps the the wind and the bugs out of my eyes - and keeps eyelashes from getting in same. Cuts the wind noise at speed. Gives me somewhere to mount my comms - mostly for GPS directions, but also the occasional phone call. Rain doesn't sting my face any more. Cold doesn't make my eyes water so much the world becomes a blur any more. And the only bit of vision they block seems to be a little directly above - good for keeping the sun out of my eyes, I'll tilt my head back a whisker if I need to look upwards much - and a tiny bit right ahead of the tip of my nose when I don't spend a lot of time looking anyway. Peripheral vision is completely unobstructed for me. I've also had too many crashes (learning to ride a motorcycle in Sydney didn't have the greatest survivability odds back in the day) so I have first hand understanding that accidents can happen anywhere, any time, for any reason...and I likely wouldn't be here, walking and breathing and stuff - without my gear. Don't care if the law says I don't have to. I STILL DO.
I recently started wearing the airbag vest from Klim. There have been times when I forgot to turn it on and it has been a learning experience but now it has become a habit to keep it charge once a week or so and turning it on when I wear it. For me, wearing all the gear that can protect me and doesnt inhibit my riding is a no brainer. Had a crash at 15K feet in the Himalayas last year. I was wearing my Asterisk knee braces which save my knees for sure. I walked away with just a few bruises where without the gear, I would have had a couple of major fractures. I encourage all new riders to wear protective gear. If someone makes fun of me, I tell them with my riding abilities, I spend as much time falling as I do riding so I need the extra help.
I’m admittedly poor about wearing gear. Most of the time it’s just gloves, helmet and if it’s a good day, boots. The jacket is usually just on for interstate freeway rides or extra enthusiastic rides. The helite backpack seems appealing though. Practical and less suffocating than traditional airbags. I have to stop being poor so I can snag one.
I’d also evaluate if you will even wear it. If you struggle to wear any gear, will you even use the airbag after buying it? Airbags are dope, but it won’t stop your arm from meeting the tarmac and needing skin graphs, or help your elbow / shoulder from getting mangled.
43:43 For reference, a femur, one of the most difficult bones to break, breaks at around 4kN of force. This is why Ryan at Fortnine questioned the benefit of armor, particularly in shoulder and collarbone. If the highest CE rating allows 9kN, it is allowed to transfer more than enough force to break your femur.
You highlighted what many, including other motorcycle industry professionals like the fine gents in this video, fail to recognize in Ryan's video. He wasn't saying armour as a whole is pointless but rather that with the current standards, as they relate to the feebleness of the human body's ability to absorb forces without sustaining damage, armour is insufficient in its current form. Ryan's assertion was more hyperbolic criticism of the industry and standards than actually saying riders shouldn't wear armour. If Ryan actually thought protective gear/armour was pointless he wouldn't wear his Helite airbag system, which he has spoken very highly of on several occasions.
Yeah it can’t break if you have some impact hit it perpendicular to the bone… but how often does that happen compared to a side impact like hitting the ground? He conflates different mechanisms of injury. And there is no femur armor either way.
Ryan’s entire video was based on crash data though. How often have you tipped over and hit your armor and not called the cops to file a report? The unreported majority of incidents is why everyone laughed at that video and disagreed with him. An airbag will do a hell of a lot of good if you slam your elbow or knee into the ground and it deploys over your chest. But hey, he released it on April 1st which almost seemed like a safety net for the idea / concept. Y’all can stop wearing armor if you believe that stuff, but I’ll take the more practical approach.
Also, the armor helps disperse the impacts energy across a larger surface area. So while a direct strike of 4kn could break a femur, hitting armor helps dissipate it across a larger area. By the logic of “whats the point?”, everybody that has ever crashed would’ve broken their bones when the armor hit the deck. And yet, even MotoGP riders highsiding at 150+ and hitting limbs don’t always break em. Idk, don’t wear armor if you want but that video was heavily ridiculed in the comments and by other company videos once it launched.
On waterproof liners, I like the option to wear it under or over, such as on the Tornado 4. On a hot day where you run through a short thunderstorm or intermittent rain that doesn't drop the temp much, I wear the liner under as it keeps me cooler and avoids over loading my faceshield's antifog solution - and even something like a pinlock 120 is well short of impervious to fogging. If it's cooler, or a front that drops the temp significantly, you can wear it over the jacket. With prior versions of the Tornado, you only had the under solution. Worse yet, it had significant insulation built in, which I had to cut open and rip out since I ride with my mesh jacket only in summer, when the storms around here typically don't drop temps that much. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere where rain only happens when it's cold, under jacket waterproofing sounds like a bad idea, I'm sure.
Can we get a normal jacket and pants with integrated airbags instead of crappy armor that doesn't cost a fortune?
Helite has integrated jackets, as does Dainese. Sadly they don’t sell as well as the ones that standalone and let you bring your own jacket to the party. They are out there though, but more also expensive since it’s a jacket + an airbag so can’t really help there.
I wore Forcefield armor (ce2 back and chest protection) before getting the TechAir 5, and airflow is a wash between the two. They're both hot on a 90+ degree day in traffic, and so is the heat wafting up on the ICE bike you're likely sitting on. I've spent an hour creeping through rush hour traffic in Tennessee on a hot July day (due to a navigation error), and survived to tell the tale. It wasn't pleasant and I drank a lot of water that day. Hopefully Alpinestar can figure out how to package the airbags in a way to increase venting - I think there's a better chance of that than with the old passive armor at least.
Great episode!
I have a question about Olympia gear on RZ. It seems all the Olympia gear is in "Closeout" mode. Are they going away on RZ? I also noticed RZ never seems to have Olympia gloves.
I've done 2 cross-country (USA) roundtrip tours since 2020 and both were done in the same Olympia jacket, gloves, and pants. I love their value proposition.
I'm an Alpinestars fan, though, when it comes to boots. ;P I've ridden through so many miles of old testament downpours in those boots.
Ever since Olympi got bought out by a Canadian company just before COVID, they’ve been hit with tons of issues. It’s not really anything with ZLA as much as their ownership corp. hope to see them come back stronger
MT Helmets spanish production, very comfortable and very good quality. Rubén Xaus King of the baggers and Pedro Acosta also have used this brand. Gratis quality nice price.
My only concern is that wearing these airbags can potentially give you a false sense of security. When you know that bones and limbs will meet asphalt/natural terrain, you are so vigilant and ain’t taking no damn chances. I just purchased one and a back protector, and am hoping that I don’t drop down my guard while wearing it thinking that I’m safely wrapped in bubble wrapping.
Yeah that’s a good point. I guess there is still a level of responsibility on the rider to act how they want. I don’t buckle in my seatbelt in my car and think “well now I can do whatever the hell I want” and go jump the Grand Canyon or anything. But, I feel like no amount of gear will fix that type of riders mindset tbh.
Hey guys (especially pat), I have a shoei nxr2 3xl because it's the only helmet I could get my giant head into - It's super comfortable but I would really like a drop down sun visor and maybe even a modular. Are there any other options for people with giant heads that are at the cutting edge of safety and not stripped down in terms of features?
In past years, HJC was the go-to for larger headed riders. Given your naming convention of the Shoei, I Imagine your in Europe which means the HJC’s will have the 22.06 very, so I would look there. I swore by the RPHA 70 ST helmet for years, and was a bit disappointed by the 71 version but only bc I loved the 70 ST so much. So I’d check the 71 out for fit to see if it works for your head size.
@@patrickmchugh8039 Australia, the Southern Europe 😉 thanks for the info!
I got tech air race and recently tech air offroad. Yes its expensive but id be more than happy to throw 2k down the drain and stayed unharmed or absolute protection when needed. People always think incidents will not happen to him/her untill learend it the very hard way
Wait, my new Neotech II is junk?!?! I feel so scammed!
All Apple iPhones 14 and above, have satellite based SOS service. Apple say the service will be free for two years and I’m sure after that they will have some form of subscription service and some means to have a two-way text conversation much like Spot and InReach currently have.
Speaking of Apple, I couldn’t figure out how to leave a comment on this episode on Apple Podcasts.
That said, I take a large T-shirt. Keep up the good work boys!!
Boosh
Curious how apple will approach the satellites too. If it is free that’s rad, but I’d be curious how expensive it is for them as that will be the customers cost in the future. Free is awesome for sending texts/calls to buddies for a pick up, but calling in an airlift is insanely expensive. Had a roommate call it in and was out 30 grand after insurance bailed on a technicality.
@@patrickmchugh8039 as I mentioned, I’m sure they will have some kind of subscription based service in the future to compete with Spot and InReach.
The funny thing is, 99% of the people I’ve told didn’t realize their phone did that.
I even happened to only chance upon it because I switched out of necessity from an android device to an iPhone, and in my desperation to find something about it that was worthwhile, I found a CZcams video that mentioned it.
I also found an article about someone who plunged down a cliff in their car in California, were rendered unconscious and were saved because of their iPhone crash detection/satellite SOS.
AWESOME content
In this episode Pat mentioned that he has swapped to using the Alpinestars SR10 helment as his daily. Would you recommend this helmet for someone who rides only street on a supernaked? I am coming off of a AGV Corsa R and felt that at times the vents were not flowing 100% due to the more upright nature of the naked bikes.
Sure, I daily commute on a Triumph Street Triple Rx which is a naked street bike and still love it.
I'll lead with stating I am a proponent of helmets and helmet laws, but I would be very curious to see the fatality numbers normallized by miles traveled. There was a certain thing that happened in 2020 that limited many people's driving habits, so it may not represent a typical year for fatalities....
Good point. Stats are only as good as what your input is.
I dunno guys, having it be safety month with ZERO sales on airbags suggests where the focus is.
I wear a 2xltall ride a dr and am looking for a good fitting airbag
'dress for the crash, not the ride' pretty much does it for me, I've crashed on my MTB enough to know that I never want to experience it on a moto... and if it does happen, it would likely be quite a bit more serious.
It would have been nice to see pics of the gear that was discussed (like what is done w/bikes), also, I found the actual info a bit sparse in this episode - I walked away with 3 things - airbags, wind/rain barrier on top and apparently there is kangaroo leather... Also, what I think was missing were the actual stats on crashes and what were the most common injuries for dirt and road, which would drive the gear needed... for example on MTB, most of my crashes involved hands and knees, so gloves and knee/shin protectors made the most difference (helmet is great to have, but hopefully it will see much less frequent use...). To this day I still don't know the difference between high cut vs low cut shoes...feels like something this episode should have covered (but maybe I dozed off).
Helmets are like condoms.
Not wearing one may feel better, but when you have an unplanned spill, it has repercussions. And not just for the freedom lover.
And you know, a good cover can prolong the ride.
I do like this comparison. But I will say, no helmet on the highway isn’t enjoyable for me, one bug or stone to the face and it hurts like hell. Never really understood it
Nice discussion. I think the technology innovation/redundancy cycle is answered by buying the best you can at the time, as that will be better than what you had. Yep, sucks but good to have the innovation and in one sense purchasing gear funds the future innovation
Question. For those of the watchers who live in the EU or those of us who travel to the EU. Is it better to buy your helmet there? Rather than USA? I tried some on in Paris as they have such a way bigger selection. The model numbers and as you talk about ratings are so different I ended up not doing it, but if I can get a better rated product produced under a stricter system, maybe I should buy one in the EU?
As a miserable Missourian, I ride all gear all the time…
Theas folks can’t drive… on both sides it’s the classic shitbisket recipe of speed meets inattention.
I forget my keys half of the time.
Wont even pretend that I will be able to remember to set the electronic airbag jacket correctly every time.
Rather keep my basic, simple armor protection.
Is there a future video review we should be looking for on the helite backpack? Spurge mentions they recently checked out and played with one at 40:22 and I would be really curious about your specific thoughts as I have been trying to find one in stock so I could buy one. If it has problems, I would definitely like to know about what they are
Yeah, should be live soon. Takes time to edit them down and run through them before they go live. We reviewed the tethered and e-version in one combo video. Tethered is the better option, e-version doesn’t protect at under 15mph sadly
@@patrickmchugh8039 completely understandable. Thanks! I wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing it if it was on another channel or something. (also, I liked the idea of the electronic version for the case if being rear ended at a stoplight and the convenience of it, so that’s really good info to have)
@@patrickmchugh8039Pat I appreciate that you guys are reviewing both but I think your suggestion of tether vs electronic might be a little off. The electronic version has a fork sensor that will make it active at 0mph but the fork sensor isn’t for sale in the US yet.
Even then you said in the pod that the best gear is the one you will actually wear. A lot of people won’t tether to their bike or won’t remember to buckle in etc… So your suggestion isn’t really taking in other factors. There are pros and cons to both and instead of dismissing one outright it would be better to list those for the customers. The question really should be which one do you think you would use more. If it’s electronic know that it doesn’t engage until 15mph. It’s better to have an airbag that inflates after 15mph than not wear one at all right?
There are also cons to a tethered system. If you and the bike are hit and you travel together in the same direction than the airbag won’t inflate unless you separate from it. With an electronic backpack as long as you are over 15mph it will inflate regardless of your distance to the bike.
@@socalmotorx Bit confused by your response, as it's all over the place. Both tethered and electronic / algorithm airbags have their own pros and cons so its based on the user to determine what works for them. Not all electronic airbags don't deploy under 15mph, just the Helite models we talked about. But while some riders might forget to plug in to a tethered system, I'd argue there are likely more that would forget to charge a electronic version for their entire rides.
You can paint a picture of either unit being in a crash scenario that would exploit the flaw in their design (Helite's e-airbag under 15 mph, Tethered and needing to plug in / leave the bike, algorithm and needing to charge / update firmware, etc) so it's just a matter of making personal decisions about which risks you are OK with living with and those you are not. We chat about both and having reviewed airbags for nearly 8 years now, we like algorithm based. It's a personal choice though and we are chatting about that and our choices in the podcast.
Hopefully that helps
@@patrickmchugh8039 I’m not sure what was all over the place about my response. I listed some of the differences between the electronic Helite and tethered. Alpinestars algorithm may very well be better than Helite but like you said in the podcast you don’t use one of those airbags because they would be too hot. You also said the best gear is the piece you will actually wear.
That’s the reason I personally went with the Helite backpack. It’s too hot in SoCal to have an airbag under my jacket. The electronic backpack does have a downside in that it’s not engaged under 15mph but it’s the one that is easiest to wear. You aren’t strapped in to your bike, you have the most airflow of any option, it doubles as a great storage solution for all of your stuff and it’s actually really comfortable as a backpack.
So the question is is it better to have an airbag with a perfect algorithm that you won’t use because it’s too hot or an airbag that is comfortable but engages above 15mph.
Why buy MOTUL products? Well your money is going to a faceless corporation anyway so might as well be on that provides this great podcast lol! If I still had hair like Spurges I wouldn't want to wear a helmet. I would wear a helmet but I would begrudge the helmet hair. To me the DOT cert isn't worth the sticker its printed on I look for ECE 22.05 or 22.06. The FIM and SNELL rating are more for racing IMO, and the ECE is what to look for for everyday riders. I would not buy a helmet that only had DOT certification. I have no doubt that this weeks engine is from a 1984 Kawasaki KZ440! It sounds like a dike bike but I really don't know dirt bikes. So, my guess is its something that either Pat or Spurge owns or has owned. Another fine show old sports, see you in 2!
The Tech-Air Off-road actually does include elbow armor.
Something to think about is what speed helmeted vs un helmeted people are dieing at, are people without jelmets dieing at 40 vs people with dieing at 60? And how many people without helmets lived but with severe brain injuries?
I tried the tech air off road and rode with it for 15 minutes. My chest was so sweaty, and it was 70f only. No chance I could wear this in any weather.
Yeah, that’s why it’s all personal preference. The Dakar racers seems to get away with it just fine in Saudi Arabian hot days, but they are also full speed always so maybe that’s cooling them down.
I love the show and I have been looking forward to an episode on airbags but this one bummed me out. It felt more like an ad for Alpinestars than a serious detailed discussion on airbags and their differences. I’m not sure if that is because Revzilla currently has a sale on Astar airbags or not. Helite got little mention when they are a huge player in the scene. I just bought my Helite electronic backpack from you guys because to me it was the best option available. I wish you guys had more detailed discussions about the differences in options.
On one hand Pat mentioned that he doesn’t have an airbag because they are too hot while ignoring the benefits that the Helite options have in that regard. The turtle 2 is worn outside of your jacket in a pretty loose manner so it will allow more airflow than a tech air under your jacket. Also the backpack is the best of the bunch for airflow. It has a little less coverage but you can get a lot more comfort. Also the electronic versions were dismissed outright with no explanation. Without a fork sensor the 15mph engagement speed is a good trade off for accidental deployments. I’m more likely to use an electronic airbag than a tethered one so for me it’s better to have more protection over 15mph than not.
I feel like the lack of a nuanced discussion about the benefits and drawbacks of available options may have hurt airbag adoption amongst your listeners. How much are replacement cartridges? How many times can it be deployed? Which models are worn under a jacket or over a jacket? Is there a difference in comfort and breath ability in under vs. over?Which models have what coverage?
Personally I wouldn’t wear an Alpinestars airbag because it’s too hot in SoCal but Helite has good options for more airflow and they also have more coverage.
RE: The electric Helite not working under 15mph. IIRC this is because the optional fork mounted sensor is not available in the US (or North America?) due to not meeting FCC regulations. From what I remember, it operates on a wavelength that already has a specific use in the US. I recall some rumors of changes being made to the sensor a couple years back, but it looks like nothing has come of that.
Helite said they would have it here late spring.
@@RandomGRKFor real?
The thought of safety in traffic or at a stop light being an add-on feature for your forks only makes it worse IMO
@@patrickmchugh8039Helite beat all the competition in providing an electronic airbag system which can deploy at zero speed. I was surprised when Helite's e products were described by HS/LS as immature but now I know the sensor is not available in the US I understand why.
@@Bunter1815 I am curious how they beat the competition? Tech Air and D-Air were the first commercially available non-tethered systems available to the public, offer more options, and deploy nearly twice as fast. Which way did they beat them? And yeah, I’m curious why Helite doesn’t bring the sensor to the US too, as it’s not even listed on their US website as an option.
I should have watched this first but Revzilla just delivered my new Helite E-turtle. Now Spurg says Helite is wayyy behind the competition for e-vests. Am I an idiot? Is this thing even gonna go off?
The tethered airbags are not for me. I would definitely forget to untether it when I get off the bike and would have to waste so much money on cartridges. 😆
It takes a lot of force to set one off. Mine's never gone off when I've forgotten to unclip it.
I've paused the show at :32:00. Is the extra $1,100 worth it over my Klim Induction mesh jacket and a FrogTogg rain jacket overtop?
I've always used waterproof overcoat/pants with my RevIt Sand gear... rode well over 100kmi with that setup it worked OK but had a few things I didn't like... overjacket bulk being the biggest downside. Just bought new gear and went for the Dominator GTX Jacket to get away from needing the overcoat... but opted for the Defender pants because overpants didn't bother me as much and having pants that breathe when it's hot seemed more important than having GTX pants (which doesn't breathe at all).
Observations on the goretex gear... it's HEAVY and stiff. I suspect most of that is increased protection but some of it is definitely the multiple layers. I am a bit nervous that it'll be crazy hot midsummer... and I'm hoping it breaks in and gets just a bit more flexible. For someone used to the light and very breathable Sand gear the GTX stuff is a big adjustment. It's enough of a concern for me that I'm getting the zipper on my Sand jacket repaired (that's the reason I updated in the first place) so I can wear it midsummer if the GTX stuff turns out to be an oven.
That’s my go to.
Zach needed a new case since his phone is always cracked on Daily Rider!
The survival rate for a fracture pelvis is 60% so I have read , i could live with the butt pads…even if it looks like the spaceballs guys
PatGPT
Hello
When all these "high end" Helmet manufacturers make ECE helmets for 3XL and 4XL noggins, I will care about Arai and Shoie helmets. Most of Revzilla's 3X run small. I am looking at your house brand Sedici.
I live in Nebraska and 2024 is the first year with the helmet law being repealed. I think the real issue is that the barrier or threshold to death is significantly lower with zero protection on your head. I myself will continue to wear my full face helmet. A slow speed spill with no helmet has already caused a death in a nearby town and it was determined that a helmet would have in fact resulted in minor scrapes and bruises.
Thats what i wonder? And how many people lived but with severe brain injuries
They repealed a helmet law? Wow that seems wild to me. Is it something ppl could vote for seperately or just something a single person in power pushed through?
Ride safe!
@@_Makanko_ it was put on a preliminary ballot to put it into discussion, then the legislature had enough pressure from the local lobbyists it passed. I’m not in favor of the government telling people what they can and can’t do, so I guess I kind of understand from that side. That said I still think riding without a helmet could signal what a helmet protects may be lacking in power also…. 🤷🏻♂️
@@stank.nooner2987 Thanks for clarifying
Video manager should reconsider the title and thumbnail of HSLS, I almost thought this was like a revzilla safety gear recommendation video and didnt click it. Yeah "Podcast" is at the bottom, but look into how humans read in a Z pattern. And following what most other channels do, adding even a small image of Zach and Spurgeon's face I think would help click rate.
Almost sound like ryan at F9 with this qualock add and Airbags ( no more armor ###) . no helmet law ( do they wear armor or airbag vest LOL) Gortex issue another Ryan adventure ., my scott is great as a rain shell ... I have a good mesh ( Klim) a wind liner and the rain shell... agree with you guys but not a poor men solution but a smart way of doing things... one of the issue with Armor is that they are not a standard size ... most of them are to small... some of the manufacturer have larger armor which are much better but not readily available, Airbag for race or track ok need to come down in price for road. Do you have to trust mfg company or do you need a real agency to test and certify products like ECE for the NA ?
Riding without a helmet really never made sense to me.
Regardless of the safety which is undeniable, it is simply extremely uncomfortable to ride without a helmet above like 50kph, which is like 99% of rides.
It is wild to see how many people in my area don't ride helmets. Usually they are older harley riders too.
I always ride with a jacket helmet boots and gloves. I add the kevlar jeans when im going on the interstate (though i'd like to order another pair. they're just way too expensive).
I wish more motorcycle gear looked less dorky and more like casual fashion.
Me too. That way the dorky stuff is more likely to end up on clearance so I can get more good deals and can continue looking like a colorblind Power Ranger.
@@IttyBittyF1Fittylol
Normal fashion is disposable garbage, though 😢
Cafe Racer stuff is my jam, but it gets eye-wateringly expensive
Dangit. Hockey is hockey. Ice is assumed. If ice is not the surface on which it is played, please then provide clarification.
Note: written by a Canadian.
You mean Iced Field Hockey? What a wild way to play field hockey. Like a Disney show: Hockey on Ice!
Since I live i immigrated to Canada and the playoffs are going on I feel obliged to throw in a Go Canucks Go.
@Kevin-hp5fk ... exactly. Ice field hockey is acceptable naming. That it also has been upgraded to an iced version, the clarification of "ice" is appreciated.
Go Team Go!
There is no other hockey for a 220lb 6 ft man like me ha. Floor hockey is a high school gym sport and field hockey is specifically FIELD hockey. Hockey is Ice here in the states, but I thought my jacked, Canadian-like physique scream that haha
@@patrickmchugh8039 what about lacrosse?
@@tonylastname6468 you mean the sport hockey players play in the summer?
Can't imagine riding whithout and Helmet... Sounds crazy, like weapons allowed, USA still living on the old west... Sorry for my English...kind regards
Here in the UK everybody is mandated to wear a helmet unless your religion demands you wear headwear which is impossible to wear under a helmet. I really struggle to understand the idiocy of those who value their personal freedom above their life.
I’m new to the bike world. But one thing for sure is fuck klim, no way I’m ever wearing their gear. Promoting safety with an airbag system, but you gotta pay a stupid subscription. Spending already around $700 on their airbag & be paying for the rest of the time you have the equipment! Just makes no sense
Yeah, Klim has received a lot of flak for the airbag and F9’s bashing hasn’t helped. I will say though, over the past 4 years the Klim airbags were easily top 3 sales in the US. So there was a huge market of people that liked the subscription model. I guess maybe those that only ride occasionally and could turn it off/on but we’re a cheaper entry point at $400 to buy it initially.
@@patrickmchugh8039 yeah with f9 I saw the Klim BS! Yeah but I think in the long run it will be more expensive, in my opinion. I would rather buy alpine 4 deployments & send it back. & think if I remember klim made you send it back & pay for that (when you are already paying for the subscription). I don’t think it’s fair
@@camacdav000 I agree it’s not for me, I personally wouldn’t go that route if I wanted an airbag. Doesn’t mean some people don’t like it especially if they don’t ride that much and like the option to turn it off and save costs though. Different strokes for different folks. Definitely think it’s a huge positive for the euro market and Klim just chose that partner to work with (In&Motion). From what I recall, I think their stats were the Euro market opted for the subscription base 80-90% of the time. Just shows the growing differences between the US and EU markets IMO.
They do offer an option to outright buy the box with updates included to be honest.
So you can choose!
Spurge ending the show by throwing another dig at flyover country... Nice.
There’s a lot of little things that are incorrect or misleading here and it’s really frustrating.
First of all, helite makes an electronic airbag that you guys sell too, you didn’t mention it. It’s a good alternative to Alpinestars because it’s a vest.
Second, you seriously gloss over ECE vs DOT. ECE 22.06 is the top standard by miles but you didn’t mention it. There’s a huge difference between 22.05 and 22.06 you can’t just call it ECE. For shoei to (once again) sell a helmet that is not ece certified in the USA should be criminal. They did it with the x-14 too. Definitely the last shoei I buy.
You guys really need to be more articulate with the details… they matter.
Couple of things: Helite does make an e-version, but they don’t protect you under 15mph unless you buy the add on fork sensor which isn’t for sale in the US. So we wouldn’t put it on level at all with Astars or Dainese, as getting rear ended at a light or in traffic is a very high likelihood. Helite controls the tethered market, and they are solid. But they don’t stand as tall as the others in electronic.
The Shoei x-14 was Snell certified here in the states which was a better standard than the 22.05 ECE standard that predated the (now popular 22.06 which rotational testing). But Shoei wasn’t the only one, Arai and a lot of other companies opted for having Snell helmets in the US. The X-15 that replaced it is 22.06 ECE and SNELL in the US which is rad. The issue we are chatting about is DOT only helmets with nothing else here. And, while I could talk about 22.06 for hours, it doesn’t make for great content. Luckily though, we talk about ECE in every helmet review that has it, and have about 5 articles on common tread about it to. So we aren’t avoiding the topic by any sense, just didn’t have enough time to get into it here when talking about innovations (since 22.06 came out 3 years ago).
But feel free to mention any incorrect info you heard and I’ll chat back with you. Sorry if the podcast wasn’t to your liking, we try our best while keeping it entertaining since making a dissertation means nobody will watch / listen.
26 is the age that people need to have their own health insurance per the affordable care act. children are able to be on their parents insurance until their 26th birthday.
and here at 26 im still a clueless virgin, no job yet, socially awkward and generally hopeless
@@Amish_Paradisedon't worry, the left will make sure those like yourself, are taken care of by taxing the people that do work. The failure of parents that sheltered their kids, the left will take care of you. The reason they allow "kids" which have been an adult for 8 years, they don't use much insurance, but working adults pay for there baby to have insurance. It's free money for insurance companies. Crazy when people have kids today and don't raise them, but allow day care employees and public education. Sorry, one of those nerves I have about life today
@@Amish_Paradiseget out there and get out of your comfort zone little by little. It takes a lot of effort, but before long you'll be making strides you never knew you were capable of.
the cost of the subscription is a rip off, the cost of replacing the cartridge if needed is rip off, not even expensive but eye wateringly expensive and a complete rip off of the user by scumbag companies
Fwiw: most insurance replaces gear after a Moto-accident and I’d imagine the repairs on the airbag would be included. Idk, I’ve never hated Toyota bc my truck’s airbag deployed and had to be replaced. It’s just part of the repair costs of an accident and it had a chance to save my life. Subscription I’ll agree, not my cup of tea. But some people seem to like it (since it was the most popular in sales for a few years), but the cost of repairing an airbag after a crash just seems to make sense to me if it did its job in the crash. Idk, I personally wouldn’t call a company “scumbags” that brought an airbag to market bc it costs money to repair after a crash. Everything costs money after a crash, in every industry.
@@patrickmchugh8039 disagree £500 for a vest, then 120 per year to keep it working and 100 to replace cartridge if you set it off even in error, non subscription vest costs about the same replacement is the cost of a bottle is 25 quid, the subscription model is a rip off, I stand by my previous comments. Airbags great idea just not the ammount being charged just to keep it working
These videos are just 2 hour ads these days...
Spurgeon, man! stop cutting people off, what you're trying to say isn't that important... jeeez..
My son was recently diagnosed with cancer. I asked him whats one thing I could do to make him happy. He said either stop riding or wear an Airbag. Not sitting on infinity dollars so guess im done riding.
WTF??
Sell bike, get a cheaper bike and an airbag. Just throwing the option out there.
Wishing the best for your family
But... I like yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre!
If you make a decision not to wear a helmet, please don't sue me because you get an owie. The freedom guys, never talk about taking responsibility for their decisions.
Yes they do, all the time. The problem is that the internet is won by loudmouth cry babies.
That is my idea, if you wear nothing, you get nothing with insurance. Take responsibility for your own actions, and not blame it on ignorance! Well said sir
Slippery slope. What about fat people who are in the process of eating themselves to death because of freedom? What about people who are in the process of drinking themselves to death, because of freedom? What about people who are in the process of smoking themselves to death, because of freedom? What about people who are into hard drugs?
There's a whole hell of a lot of free dumb there and they are tens of thousand times worse than motorcyclists. These people can have heart attacks or diabetic episodes or any other health dangers and smash into oncoming traffic due to their free dumbs.
How could they sue you if they choose not to wear a helmet?
@@_skud Utah does not have a helmet law. So, a motorcyclist can have an accident that happens to have a head injury. There will be no violation for not wearing a helmet, but I suspect there will be a law suit over the head injury.
Ryan didnt say dont wear armor. He said more than once that he was NOT saying that. He is saying the armor isnt as good as most ppl think. The regulations are low. The standards are low. He was informing us so we can make better choices regarding motorcycle safety. He even SUGGESTS PPE. So everyone saying that he is anti safety or anti armor need to stop man. You know better than that BS Spurge but its what we have come to expect from you.. sadly
Time stamp of 5:25 in Ryan's video is "I won't tell you to take the armor out of your jacket, but I take the armor out of my jacket and I love it" said the influencer w/ ~2 million faithful subscribers that tend to follow his word like its gospel. I get he didn't say "go take it out now" ... but that statement alone justified that responses he received. Totally agree, armor can do better and should be regulated by a body other than the brands that sell it, no argument there. But the responses from numerous accounts and the comments section on that video alone are justified IMO.
@@patrickmchugh8039 Ryan wear armor.. he says that in the video too. He wears PPE. He says that in the video too. So if ppl are going to follow what he says they are going to wear abrasion resistant gear. Boots with ankle protection. Gloves with closure and protected palms. The best helmet they can afford. A full CE level 2 or AA back protector minimum and a tethered airbag on their back… because, THATS WHAT HE SAID. Ppl are ridiculous. So tell me what he deserves for saying that??
Again. He’s saying that the gear isn’t what it should be. It isn’t what he thinks. So he’s removing shoulder armor. Elbow armor ect. It doesn’t protect you from breaks so what’s the point. His gear is however abrasion resistant. If the bone is gonna break either way, what’s the point?
@@patrickmchugh8039 what kills me the most is that most of these motoTubers are recommended the exact same gear.. so what are we saying? Ryan’s just the only one calling out the industry and regulatory bodies for deceptive practices and producing gear that’s not even as protective in what they use for equestrian. So they obviously could make it if they wanted.
But hey. F9 buys everything they test/review and are committed to being unbiased. Unlike Revzilla. Of course they are critical
@@JvariW Hey J, take a step away from the ledge buddy, think you are reading way too deep into me/people disagreeing with Ryan and taking it personally. I sent you a timestamp and quote of Ryan saying he doesn't wear his armor in his gear. Which is cool, its his ride but I was helping you understand why (a lot of) people were discouraged from that part of the video and received all the comments / reply videos it did. Airbags are great and so are upgraded back protectors, but that doens't help your elbow, forearm, outer shoulder, or knee / hips. So that was everybody's rub IMO.
And FWIW: I encourage brands to step up their gear every single week when I meet with them about upcoming launches. Just because I don't post a video about it for clout or to help the consumers understand the dilemma, doesn't mean I (or a lot of people) are sitting by and doing nothing. So take a breather man. Also, I'd be very surprised if Ryan got his gear from his own pocket, Fortnine is the the biggest retailer of gear in Canada so I am sure he's allowed to grab gear from brands / warehouse whenever he wants. I don't know since I don't work there, but Fortnine is a retailer that grew their CZcams channel to eclipse their retail arm.
@@patrickmchugh8039 none of this has anything to do with me personally so I’m not taking any of it personally.
I understand the argument against what RF9 posted. That’s what I’m clarifying against in my post you’re commenting under. You’re trying to help me understand? Thanks, but I’ve already clearly stated my understanding beforehand.
First you quoted that he takes armor out of his jacket. Then you changed it to gear. Which is it? Because he wears armor. Which is my whole point. He’s not advocating ppl not wearing it because he wears it. He’s said for years he’s not ATGATT, but he wears PPE. He’s informing ppl the gear isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be.
Also F9 pays for everything they review/test. Maybe he gets a freebie personally or an employee discount of something. Wouldn’t know because I don’t work there. In this same video we are under they admit they get all their gear free from Revzilla. Free or discounted personal gear isn’t a new thing. Employee benefits or whatever is a thing. The distinguishing factor is that F9 pays for EVERYTHING they review/test and dedicated to impartiality. Not so with Revzilla. They’ve been called out on this before
As a non American I always find it hilarious when people start yelling about their freedom to do certain things, because never once has any of those people actually taken responsibility for the results of those actions. If you don't want to wear a helmet, that's fine, you don't have to have ride a motorcycle. You don't need to wear one in a car, so that's your choice. It should be 100% zero tolerance for non helmeted riders, non insured riders etc.
Never once in the whole of human history have they taken responsibility? Exaggerate much?
This is a nice little slippery slope, too. You live in a country with nationalized healthcare? How do you feel about people eating themselves to death and you paying for it? Smoking themselves to death and you paying for it? Drinking themselves to death and you paying for it?
Golly gee, it's almost like there's gray areas thought we should aim for!
I'm confused by "100% zero tolerance". Is that kinda like "a dollar two ninety-eight"?
What harm comes to me due to someone else making the dumb decision to not wear a helmet? That's freedom.
@@_skud you could try reading what I said.
They cause insurance rates to go up, and they cause someone else the trauma of seeing they're skulls split open in what would otherwise be perfectly survivable accidents.
Freedom means making a choice and accepting responsibility for its consequences. People like them (and I'm guessing you) just pretend the last part of that isn't part of freedom too.
While I agree with the undertone of the comment, “because never once has any of those people taken responsibility for …” is a blatant lie. You’ve never asked every single one of them post-incident, and statistically it’s not accurate. I know tons of people that have crashed without gear and say “yeah that was my fault but what’re you going to do, I made the decision.” Freedom riders aren’t just all blind and ignorant, they come in all shades and forms like we Gear-focused ones do. Don’t ride the extremist-rail please
Subscriptions on airbag systems should be illegal.
One of the big problems for us big riders is trying to find an airbag system to fit, and with honest sizing guides. By the Alpinestars sizing guide, the 3XL or 4XL Tech Air 5 best SHOULD have fit me, but neither did, wasn’t even close. What gives with Europeans not understanding that we North Americans would love this technology too? 🥲
How big are you and is sizing usually an issue for you? I totally agree Europe gets our sizing wrong from time to time, but both Spurgeon and I are larger than average and fit in most types of airbags. So if we are talking the end of the spectrum of sizing needing expanding, I’m all for it. But I’d hardly call that a massive issue for MOST riders in the US. Either way, most big CG or ZLA stores stock every size to try on before buying. Otherwise, helite is like a backpack and their big sizes are MASSIVE and might work for your physique.
@@patrickmchugh8039 Thanks for your reply. I’m a 57.5 inch chest size, and sizing is commonly an issue, depending on brand. My current jacket is a Firstgear Kilimanjaro in 3XL. I have tried Klim gear in 3XL and it’s too small. Specially with airbag vests, I tried Tech Air 5 in 3XL and 4XL and neither one would zip up. According to the Alpinestar size guide, I was hoping the 4XL would work.
Sorry to hear about your hockey injury. As a Canadian, you have my sympathy, eh? 😂
BTW, Revzilla is awesome! Thanks for being such a great resource!
@@jdscown yeah, hopefully Astars will start offering some larger sizes for you then. Helite might be good as I’m usually swimming in their Turtle 2 option and it has adjustability too.
Thanks for the well wishes too, just had surgery so hopefully I’ll be back to racing and riding soon.