YUGIOH NEEDS THIS
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 9. 10. 2022
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#Yugioh #MBT #Clips - Hry
ppl unironically saying "yugioh's rules are too complicated for a rulebook" are fucking unbelievable. like if the rules are that complicated, that's EXACTLY WHY YOU *NEED* A RULEBOOK
It seems like people understood "every interaction with every card" no, in the case of Satellarknight Skybridge it's just it's interaction with a Spell Speed 1 effect of stealing a monster, any card that does that applies, simple.
To be fair, Konami would probably try and fit everything on one page to save paper and end up using .0003 size font.
@Shia Lebeouf: Life Coach Yeah, like a completely different Forbidden/limited list or having the whole thing be written in palindromes.
@Shia Lebeouf: Life Coach Heck, the Japanese team working with the American team to get the cards release at the same time would be great.
No more cramming the text box with kanji, then ignoring the consequences.
It's not just that it's complex though, it's also that card rulings have exceptions.
For example, you can activate interupted kaiju slumber when your opponent controls a kaiju even though players can only control one kaiju.
In every other similar instance you can't activate the card.
Including instances invovling Slumber. e.g. you can't activate Slumber under Vanity's Ruler.
Does Magic have these?
(Although actually, yeah they should assemble the OCG rulings database into some sort of super-rulebook. I doubt people would read it though, they don't even read the regular rulebook: many of the commonly disputed interactions are literally in there already.)
The lack of a rulebook is actually thematic with the game's premise. We all have to dig through ancient egyptian rulings like archeologists to discover the truth/lore behind a modern card game interaction. Just like the anime!!
True however, I don't want to have to become tomb raider just to resolve book of eclipse under there can be only one
I mean, the anime cardgame had rulebooks. It was just literal magic tended to mess with them.
@@mrbubbles6468 There were no rules in the anime. Kaiba pretty much made the first rule book in Battle City. Before that you could literally just do whatever. Like attack the moon or break flotation rings.
@@orga7777 Pegasus's rules may have been more liberal as far as battle is concerned but they did exist.
Players didn't just pull the stat effects of the environment (and how different environments interacted) out of their asses.
@@xCorvus7x I'm pretty sure they did. The real power of the millennium puzzle was to be able to bullshit better than your opponent at any given time
Let's just be honest, whoever handles the TCG rulings was procrastinating at first, and now they've realized just how much work they have to do and refuse to do it. As an MtG player who transitioned to Yugioh, I can say without a doubt that I can only play Yugioh on Master Duel because otherwise I can't realistically trust a judge call that could change on a whim because it's up to how the judge is feeling that day
I would say that probably is the worst thing about competitive yugioh in general. You really need to understand your rulings because there's no official oracle with rulings that is consistent across regions and then you're also depending on the judges who dole out rulings to also know what they're talking about.
Adding onto what both of you said, Distant Coder's all-too-common line "X should probably be ruled this way, but make sure you ask your head judge how it will be ruled in advance if your strategy relies on X" (quoted from memory) is such a perfect representation of this problem.
it worked well enough early on due to the genreal simplicity with few uncommon examples.
Lemme guess 0 tops?
If you go to Ygorg and search for rulings, you'll see that not only the OCG regularly releases rulings updates, they spent the past few months doing a bunch of ruling consolidations and listing every card where that same situation applies. Meanwhile the TCG simply doesn't give a fuck about us.
I knew Yugioh brainrot had gone too far once I saw someone ask "is this in the rulebook" while MBT was looking at an entry from the MTG rulebook.
Not gonna lie that rulebook page does look more like a fourm thread than a ruling document so i understand the confusion a bit.
@@tmoney1487 Thats because its the MTG wikipage citing the rulebook, like how ygo wikis cite the OCG database rulings in rulings pages.
@@tmoney1487 I mean you guys donât even have rule books so I can understand the confusion
@@f1fanatic241 We technically do have a rulebook but it's so basic and lack a TON of critical information. It's as bare bones as it gets and will absolutely wreck a new player when they try to go to locals knowing only what's in that book.
@@blackmark2899 can you imagine going to locals after reading the official rule book from like 2002 and playing against Floowandereeze or something đ
I once had a *head judge* at a regional rule on the following chain:
1. I activated System Down
2. My opponent chained ABC-Dragon Buster effect to tribute itself to special summon A-Assault Core, B-Buster Drake, and C-Crush Wyvern
that my opponent could then ACTIVATE UNION HANGAR'S EFFECT TO EQUIP A BUSTER DRAKE TO ASSAULT CORE TO KEEP IT FROM GETTING BANISHED. A head judge ruled that you could activate a spell speed 1 trigger effect during the resolution of a chain...I scooped and left the tournament.
So yeah, Yu-Gi-Oh! desperately needs a comprehensive rulebook, not a basic rulesheet.
You should have beaten the judge with a large rock
I am pretty sure union hanger would try to resolve on a different chain.
Edit: you did the right thing by leaving
I had a head judge rule they could barrone my judgement
i had a head judge after an appeal rule i could choose to not pay taxes because im a sovereign citizen
@@artificialallium JUDGEMENT A COUNTER TRAP THOUGH!?
"multiple constitutions long" might actually be the single funniest sentence ever written
The US Constitution is less than 5k words, 8k if you count all the amendments. Just for comparison, the first Harry Potter book is a bit under 80k words, and that wasn't exactly a heavy read lol
To be fair, we don't know that it was the US Constitution they were referring to. India's Constitution, for instance, is 145,000 words long.
â@@OmgPuppiesthat would require Americans to both be smart enough to read Indian texts AND not be aggressively xenophobic.
@@ThatOneWeirdFlex Yeah fuck India! America Strong! Cricket win USA #1!!!!
My favorite part of the rule book is the part where it says that XYZ summons can be done with monsters of the same level, but conveniently forgets to mention "except tokens, lol" unless you go to the ass end of the book in "other rules", where it is a single sentence. Literally treated exactly like any other monster, except in one situation, because they didn't want to handle using a token as a material for XYZ summons.
I spent hours trying to find where in the world it explains that, turns out it was the small font on the bottom of the damn chicken nuggets box rather than the large font on the receipt.
CORRECT
So what your telling me is the rulebook worked exactly like people are wishing the rulebook worked and yet that still wasnât good enough?
No wonder they stopped printing rulebooks.
@@mrbubbles6468 no people would wish for it to be well structured. No reason to not say except tokens in the xyz summon requirements. Redundancys also not a problem put it into other rules as well.
@@mrbubbles6468 No, because they have an entire section dedicated to XYZs with dead space.
This isn't, "muh, the rulebook works, but its not good enough", this is "even the basic bitch shit they got is bad." This is like putting all the mathematical formulas in a physics book in the fucking glossary.
@@freaki0734 I mean, basic rule at the front and specific rule regarding something that youâd only end up needing to know if you added to your SD with outside cards at the back seems like a well structured and simple way of doing things if you ask me. Problem is they are never consistent with stuff like that.
"who gets the effect then smart ass?" kills me every time I see it
Who gets the eff tho? đ€
ââ@@bl00by_ At first it was the person who summoned it but I think they updated it so the person who takes it can now. That still won't work for any effects that apply immediately like kali yuga though, only effects that'd trigger the next chain
"Making a rulebook is too hard."
"But Magic has one."
"But YGO is so big and complex."
"Magic has it beat on both fronts, here's an example of a complex problem solved via the rulebook."
"That's too complex for my taste."
Doesn't that.... doesn't that prove the exact point though? If the game you find too complex is capable of having a rulebook, then surely the one you like can have one.
*I don't get what their point is.*
They just don't want to read
I think itâs more likely they mean they donât understand the words on the cards in relation to the game
Like if you donât play the card game how are you supposed to know the key words or effects
Even if you have a history of knowing card games sone games just trip you up (for example thereâs a card game I canât name where burn means banished and how would you as an outsider work that out)
Watching MBT try to explain layers to a bunch of yugioh players is the content we NEED
"The official rulebook has a list of every type of effect and the order in which they apply if they happen at the same time so if you have effects A, B and C happening you can simply look at the rulebook, see that A is this type, B is that type, and C is this other type, so the order they apply in is C, A, B" just makes infinitely more sense to me as a system of rules for a game than "well there's this precedent in the OCG database for something kinda like this but the judges aren't supposed to use that so they just wing it"
Hearing MBT voice crack while yelling "Practice laaaaw" gives me joy
I almost wanted someone in chat to go âi do. Law is way easier to understandâ
@@mrbubbles6468 MBT himself was a law student
half the people in the original twitter thread don't understand the difference between a rulebook and a list of rulings. "so you want a list of every single possible interaction between any cards??" no you bozo, I want a list of rules that card interactions fit into. in MBT's example, the comprehensive MTG rulebook doesn't just say "this is how opalescence works with humility", it has an actual in-depth explanation of how timing works, and you can figure out how the interaction works from there.
it doesn't help that mtg ALSO has a massive list of rulings/explanations for individual cards on gatherer, which the yugioh tcg totally lacks
This exactly! We don't need a list of every card and how it interacts with every other card, we need a list of all the different kinds of effects and how they interact with each of the other different kinds of effects.
It also has a list of some on Scryfall, which is my main way of searching for cards nowadays.
@@ThatOneWeirdFlex Right. But what Scryfall does is it just takes the individual card rulings from Gatherer.
I really don't understand why judges wouldn't want a book like that, if only because it would make it a lot easier to deal with players who insist "But at the store I usually play at, we do it *this* way!"
It would take away their geek boner of "being right just because".
But then the head judge couldn't pull the "because I say so" card anymore. XD Remember when the head judge of a remote duel YCS said before the tournament that you can use Raye's eff to summon Zeke?
Because an issue that actually requires a judge comes up so infrequently in the grand scheme of things that writing a rule book is not worth the effort when coming up with rules on the spot will work and the can immediately be changed.
@@mrbubbles6468 You sir, have obviously never judged competitve yugioh. Back in the pre-XYZ days I would judge my locals that never went above 30 players, and the ammount of rulings disputes I had to adjucate in a given week was fairly substantial. Considering how many layers of complexity have been added to the game SINCE then exponentially increasing required rules knowledge - saying disputes come up too infrequently is disingenuous at best.
@@mrbubbles6468 That is outright false. Even at locals a judge is called or a ruling is looked up constantly.
Someone mentioned it in that twitter thread, but yes the way that Bushiroad handles their card rulings (or at least Japanese bushiroad cause the English sites haven't updated in years) is that they have a QnA section on their website where you can look up individual cards, keywords, or general game mechanic rulings and get rulings on those interactions. In cases where a previous ruling on an old card interaction would essentially provide the same answer, the newer cards would be tagged onto that old ruling, thus implying that the old ruling applies just as much with the new cards.
All we need is just a easily accessible and updated database where important rulings can just be looked up and presented as undisputed fact by konami.
But no that would take actual effort. this is konami we're talking about.
"presented as undisputed fact by konami" exactly
How can they not realize how important that is. I don't not play with the ban list when it comes out, even tho I could, because i respect it's authority; the rulings should have that same level of weight
Vangaurd is not a comparable game for complexity.
ans for this database to be accessed from that app hardly anyone uses, yugioh neuron
@@winnkey Wow, way to completely miss the point of the comment. Was he comparing complexity? No. He was saying that Bushiroad has a *Q&A SITE* dedicated to *CARD RULINGS AND HOW THEY INTERACT WITH OTHER CARDS* and was saying that Konami just needs to do the same thing for Yugioh. He was not saying "Vanguard is just as complex as Yugioh". He was saying "Yugioh needs to do something similar to what Vanguard does in terms of card rulings and interactions", which is to have a dedicated site that you can pull up whenever and look at certain interactions. Which yes, Yugioh does need that, because 90% of the rulings in this game sound like pure bullshit a judge just pulled out of his ass if you hear it the first time without any knowledge that that is indeed how said cards function together. There's a reason this game is considered the hardest one to get into for new players, and the bullshit card rulings is one of the many reasons why.
@@winnkey and yugioh canât be compared to how complex mtg is. Yet mtg has a massive database for rulings and timings. AwkwardâŠ
I love that this video is mbt just making a proper and reasonable statement and his chat so not understanding how reasonable this is. Well said 100%
I can see why yugioh players are adverse to a rulebook.
It's just so much text they have to read. They can't even read their own cards.
And whatâs funnier is that most players wonât even have to read said rulebook. Comprehensive rules are mainly for judges to reference when disputes come up.
Every day I grow more thankful for the mere existence of Gatherer and the devs of mtg actually liking the card game they make
there are many things wrong with WotC but they do have passion for design and the game, the worst you can say of the design team is they sometimes push the boundary too hard.
They also credit their artists.
@@joplin4434 To the point of making two cards that don't function as intended within the rules over the course of this year (and Serra Paragon still hasn't been fixed)
I have mad respect for YgoProDeck, but whenever I use the card database, it's just painfully obvious that it isn't Scryfall, or even Gatherer. Searches as simple as "Spell cards and Trap cards" or "Light monsters and Dark monsters" are impossible, and I find myself unable to really trust the underlying data in the same way. Cards in upcoming sets are also pretty annoying here, and only some of that is Konami's fault.
MBT has the same energy as Sajam talking about rollback netcode
people are treating real basic stuff as luxury simply cause the creators never put in the effort
rollback is actually really hard to make well but it is still absolutely worth implementing
That is an amazing point yeah. These things are REALLY hard to do and make, but guess what, IT'S THEIR JOB.
As a MTG player primarily, the twine-and-tape rules engine of YGO has always been morbidly fascinating to me.
Well, the point is you should be able to understand and play by reading and most issues come up when people just simply donât read or know how cards are meant to work. They donât know PSCT. I almost respect the judges for telling their players to learn the basic game they are playing if not for the fact it is only the TCG that has this issue.
except that yugioh doesn't have a twine and tape ruleset. there are clearly defined rules for how literally everything in the game works.
it's just a matter of the people playing the game actually bothering to learn those rules.
there are flow charts you can look at that tell you how the resolution of a single effect works. sub-step by sub-step. from open game state, to activation, to resolution, and back to open game state, and every possible scenario in between. and on top of that, every other niche interaction has an underlying ruleset that causes it to resolve the way it does. these things are clearly defined, but access to said information isn't great, so even most judges don't understand a lot of it as well as they should.
do 99% of players know anything about this? no. they don't. hell, I didn't know a lot of it myself until DistantCoder went a whole big rant about it a couple months back.
yugioh also has a "layer" system, much like magic does, but not nearly as complex, or perhaps just not clearly defined. and even this is something most players don't really know about. most players don't know that monster effects take precedence over spells and traps, and spells take precedence over traps. why do most players not know this? because the need for such knowledge almost never comes up.
like the jinzo VS skill drain ruling he mentioned, technically jinzo should always take precedence over skill drain, but another rule is more important than that rule, making card type precedence kind of pointless in this instance. the rule of "which one was activated first?" because the last one gets negated. the precedence rules don't matter like 95% of the time, because other rules explain the interaction better and simpler.
even the opalescence/humility interaction he brought up isn't that complicated. it's literally just "which one hit the field first?". if it was opalescence, then everything is 4/4 (or whatever it's respective stats happen to be), and if it was humility first, then everything is 1/1. (assuming I'm reading the cards right. I don't know magic PSCT very well. I don't know if humility would reapply it's effect continuously or it's just applied at the time of activation and never again.)
@@GeneralNickles Cope
@@__-be1gk how?
@@GeneralNickles yeah except all of those rules are in 300 different sources, even the fucking psct isn't in the official ruling book
i need that "PRACTICE LAW" into a voice clip
Ok, this is more than enough to convince me ygo needs a much more detailed rulebook. I found that magic interaction to be pretty easy to understand, even though it was a pretty long explanation, but I wouldn't be able to understand a single word of what the hell he was talking about if that stuff wasn't in the rulebook. A rulebook like that in ygo would make life just soooo much more easier.
I mean, they have explained how such layering works in YGO with Jinzo and Skill Drain. The only reason MTG needs the rulebook is it was designed with for more complexity. The problem is the TCG rules different to OCG. And that has always been the issue.
@@mrbubbles6468 There's a second, I would argue more important, problem with Yugioh's rules: They've never been collected in one place.
In one place, you can find Jinzo vs. Skill Drain and learn how it works and why.
In another place, you can learn when you can activate effects and what the "proper/formal" way of playing a game is.
In another place, you can learn the differences between "also/also, after that,/and if you do/then/and."
In another place, you can learn how the damage step works
etc.
In no place, you can learn or reference the rules of the game in full. This, by far, is the biggest problem with Yugioh's rules imo.
@@mrbubbles6468 there's no way for a Yu-Gi-Oh player to find the official rules of the game.
That's a problem, regardless of how many rulesets there are.
There's not a single one that has them documented properly.
(Yes the OCG has a rulings database, No I don't find that to be adequate because of the way they grouped and separated rulings in a way that allows for cherry picking which has resulted in conflicting rulings that should be agreeing.)
6:30 the fact that they pointed out that the OCG has a central location for their rulings but saying thatâs impossible for the TCG just had me dead. Sure the rulings r different but the core of the game means that thereâs bound to be a significant amount of overlap there
I think thatâs a prime example that the rules of your game SHOULD NOT CHANGE depending on where youâre fucking playing. Either you unite the TCG and OCG rules to be the same, or you completely detach the TCG from the OCG and stop making the same cards for both. Konami has half-assed this for decades.
You also hit a big issue I have with the judge community. Rather than put up actual counter arguments, it's this whole elitist mentality of "well it's just too much" like wtf give me actual reasons why
Beeg word make monke brain hurrtttt
It would probably put loads of them out of a âjobâ.
Most Yu-Gi-Oh player (including judge) barely read their 5 sentence long effect in the card. Do you really think they can actually read a book?
The reason why is that the Yugioh judges are half braindead. If you watch any event on livestream, you can see that clear as day.
I generally like the YGO Community, but the group of people that play only YGO and clearly have never touched another card game are consistently the ones with the most insufferable takes
God actually so true
"Here's how you make vanguard/digimon/whatever better"
[proceeds to propose the most dogshit unbalanced changes and "fixes" that just makes the game more like YuGiOh]
"Thank you I am very smart"
I generally play YGO only (though I know the basic rules of other TCGs and play them casually once in a blue moon), but I would NEVER defend just how poorly ran this game is. It's a complete mess that's almost unsalvageable at this point.
@Jake Folk With an attitude like that, you're probably driving the MTG players you know to Yugioh.
@Jake Folk wtf are you talking about? Vanguard being made by konami, Yugioh having no skill, freaking complaining about chaos emperor errata, dude, share some of that stuff you take looks like it hits really hard
The totally insane take that ruined me was someone condescendingly remarking on the effort and money Konami would have to go through to make a department to Test cards.
LIKE AN R&D DEPARTMENT AND PLAYTESTERS?
A rule book would help sooo much.
The best example I can think of to why we need one is when the Paleozoics came out, the judges were determining how they work in real time and often in contradictory ways. What chains to what? Are they monsters or traps or both? What does flipping them into face down defense do?
It was chaos and a rule book that says how trap monsters work would preemptively fix a lot of these problems, and relying on precedent for these types of rulings is probably more labor intensive than just writing some comprehensive rules beforehand.
Both trap monsters and traps that are not traps but are monsters.
@@halodragonmaster
actualy old trap monsters state that they count as both traps and monsters which is why metal reflect slime can be destroyed with mst.
compared to newer trap monsters like paleos that only count as traps while in the s/t zone and only as monsters while in the monster zone.
@@uteriel282 that type of trap monsters are actually still printed. Take a look at Angel Statue Azurune for example
They shouldve started a rulebook with things like last turn way back in the day. But instead konami decided to sweep their mistake under the banlist rug and pretend it never happened in the first place. Banning problematic cards doesnt fix them, its just konami's way of saying "we made a mistake that we dont wanna deal with" now we have dozens of cards with ruling issues and no official refernce point to resolve those issues.
@@andreavitale7240 or Conqi and Huaquero.
As someone who has experienced a commander stack battle that took 30 actual minutes to resolve, I can confirm that MTG has an insane ceiling for complex interactions.
You should see 3 level 2 judges pick on a fresh level 1 with judgebreaker decks. The rulings in that game will get bonkers about 100% of the time unless the newbie can combo off and defeat 3 judges by turn 2.
I love the fact that MTG has close to 50k cards, say 45k, if you cut out lands, and still is better put together then Yugioh when it comes to rulings.
And even then some of those lands have effects that impact the game đ
@@blasterprimed Urborg has entered the chat
They should do it for every possible interaction that can, but they should also standardize the wording. If this means going back and rewording older cards to fit the new templating then do it! They've change the wording of older cards (waboku, necovalley). When everything is standardized then the 10,000 interactions will shrink since you only need to deal with the case and not the individual.
Magic for example has rules for what happens if an instant or sorcery some how get onto the battlefield (they don't even talk about HOW it got there, just what to do IF it gets there). So that's a single case that might happen one day and might happen in different ways, but the case is the same: What do I do if an instant or sorcery is put onto the battlefield?
Other fun details about the MTG Comprehensive Ruleboonk Yugioh can be envious about:
- WotC has an actual position in the company called "Rules manager", a person whose entire job is making sure the rules work logically and are handled well.
- A company-managed website (Gatherer) has all the updated card text as well as card-specific rulings in an easily searchable format.
- With every set release, there is an accompanying PDF that is aimed exclusively at judges, where new interactions are explained and how you integrate them into the existing ruleset.
Yugioh does a lot of good stuff, but boy does it manage its rules quagmire poorly. PSCT was a start, but they never finished the job.
We do have a website with up to date cards⊠just doesnât have rulings.
@@meathir4921 The website doesn't have up to date cards, it only features the text of the latest printing. If the last time a card was printed was 2008 that's all you get, no PSCT or updated text to be seen. The magic database includes an updated modern text for every single card, even those that haven't been reprinted since 1993.
@@samueledefilippo9955 Ah, fair.
@@samueledefilippo9955 well, almost all the information. There's a few that got disappeared.
Mtg is so nice for this. For each card released, there are several additional rulings that are added on a database to help explain some of the nuances of the card. If you ever have an issue with some card interaction, legit just lookup x card rulings and you will find it and its great. Iâve had many times when i have used the card âsong of the dryadsâ and people looked at me confused on what it does, and i just pull up the page to back up my explanation of it. Its not about making every single interaction written, its just explaining the card in a coherent way such that whenever an issue arrises, it can help to clarify the solution/ where in the rulebook to find the solution
This literally happens for Yu-gi-oh in Japan, Konami just malds if you ever try to reference it since they clearly don't want to pay someone to translate it, nor have the balls to approve the fan translation. Among other things, these release rulings are also the only way to identify what classification certain effects are (especially when it comes to things like non-classified effects).
@@Skasaha_ a concept like a non-classified effect can't exist in magic, because any effect that would exist has to either fall into an existing rule or have a new rule classifying it.
@@vxicepickxv yeah, pretty much, it's completely different. Unclassified effects are the epitome of the Yugioh rule "card effects trump game rules". They can be pretty much anything, for example substitution effects (e.g. Balelynx) and summoning effects that don't activate (but aren't a summoning condition). They also are not activated effects, except for Kuribabylon's last effect because ignition effects can't be used in the battle phase but they wanted this one to do that. Because Konami Says So.
@@Skasaha_Magic also has a rule of âcard effects trump game rules.â Itâs actually written in the rulebook:
> 101. The Magic Golden Rules
>> 101.1. Whenever a cardâs text directly contradicts these rules, the card takes precedence. The card overrides only the rule that applies to that specific situation. The only exception is that a player can concede the game at any time (see rule 104.3a).
Rarely will this happen, since Magicâs rules are very well thought through, but this rule acts as a failsafe for when nothing else helps. There is absolutely no reason Yugioh canât also have this same rule in a hypothetical comprehensive rulebook. Itâs just that Konami doesnât give a fuck and would rather things go on as they are because players are still gobbling up the game despite its lack of rules.
I love how people talk about how not doable this is, but literally every other game does this. MTG has Gatherer and they make posts all the time. Pokemon has comprehensive rules posted whenever they introduce new mechanics. even the Digimon TCG just says fuck it and releases a PDF of every relevant ruling they thing players will ask whenever ANY new set comes out. Literally card by card explaining every effect and saying in plain text "Yes you can in fact do this and this, but not this because that's just how it works bucko"
i didnt realize yugioh didnt have a rulebook until at a locals a weird interaction came up and the judge was confused so i asked "well cant you just check the rules?" and i got weird looks
My sympathies.
What was the weird interaction btw?
@@halodragonmaster opponent flipped a TCobO after i targeted to destroy it with monster on field and the question was "will the floodgate effect start before it gets destroyed to remove cards on field" and the judge ruled it would because thats how skill drain works
@@halodragonmaster I bet it was Poleposition XD
how dare people want Yu-Gi-Oh to be less of an uncomprehensible mess than it currently is! how am I supposed to shark people at locals if they gain a better understanding of the game?
U/mkklrd spotted in the wild
Two times now I've had to tell floo enjoyers that the continuous spell can't sac unaffected monsters but can activated unaffected
Layers in MTG is essentially PEMDAS with more letters
When he brought out the layer rules I felt like my teacher was taking out the textbook for a different class and said âREAD HOW GOOD THIS IS YOU DUMBASSâ and for once it felt totally warranted holy FUCK thatâs so much clearer than figuring out what Dave chungus from a ycs 7 years ago said one time
I said the same thing when I became a judge and have forever ended up on Julia's shit list. Of course I also pointed out every excuse she gave was invalidated by literally every other TCG/CCG that has done this either straight out of the gate, or adopted it a bit later like WoTC did. I don't know if the post on the adjudication page is still there or not, but it is really embarrassing when I hear from a judge "I don't know, let me check facebook and get back to you." This type of document would also prevent exceptions to rules as card design will now have to follow something other than what someone pulled out of a hat. We have quite of few contradictions in rulings. Great example is the Dangers and Galis the Starbird contradictory ruling.
Did you mean "Gallis the Star Beast?" "Galis" and "starbird" both don't exist in the card database, so Gallis is my best guess of what you meant.
Out of curiosity, what was that contradictory ruling? Please tell me it isn't something like "you can reveal Gallis if it's already revealed, but you can't reveal a Danger! monster if it's already revealed."
(edit - I am worse at typing than Distant Coder)
@@delta3244 Can you reveal Gallis if it's already revealed, but can you not do that with a Danger! ?
@@danielwappner1035 I don't know. It's my only guess for what the "contradictory ruling" mentioned in the original comment is, but I hope it is not the case.
@@delta3244 Yes I meant beast. And the ruling in question is non guaranteed summon effects being allowed to activate under things loke vanity's fiend or fossil dyna.
@@scott898586 Thank you.
YES IT DOES. Even just being someone on the outside of TCG communities looking in (I love the central ideas behind these games, just don't think they're worth their cost), I have lost count of the number of times I have wished YuGiOh had something like MtG's comprehensive rules. I just don't understand how a game like this, where the way cards interact so often requires a very detailed understanding of the rules to figure out, can exist and *not have a rulebook.*
(no, the rulebook that exists doesn't count - it doesn't have all the rules! It isn't even close to that! It would be worthy of its title to new players _if a proper rulebook existed,_ but none does!)
edit - English is hard.
I was aware decks no longer come with the entire rulebook, but can't you download it off the site? I haven't checked it out but what rules aren't included? unless you mean every card interaction ever?
@@dragon-id5uj Yugioh's rulebook is pathetic. It doesn't even explain how to interpret PSCT,* which is to say, it doesn't even tell you how to interpret effects at the most basic level. If you think that's "too advanced" for the rulebook, notice that it doesn't explain that optional when effects can miss timing.
Realistically, it isn't a bad document to give new players, but it's far from complete. There are very good reasons why MtG has a rulebook in a similar format to Yugioh's. But there are also very good reasons why MtG has a real rulebook published seperately from that.
It is good, in competitive games, for players to be able to understand the game they play by reading the rules of their game.
*It does explain what semicolons and colons mean. It doesn't make it clear that what is before the semicolon is cost and therefore _not part of an effect,_ but it does at least clarify the time at which you do the things before the semicolon.
EDIT: I forgot you said that you hadn't read the rulebook. My reply used to start with "I'm guessing you never read the rulebook?."
The thing us the basic rules would be find but they never updated it to include PSCT and how to read it fully and thatâs where 99% of issues come from. People not knowing basic rules.
Iâd love to see Joseph explain the emotional rollercoaster that is the interaction between Blood Moon and Urzaâs Saga
I mean that one is pretty easy. BM turns US into a Mountain, and most notably, losing Saga. Because the Saga counters now exceed how many chapters there are (0 because its no longer a Saga), US dies to board state.
Skipping straight to the final answer is no fun! You gotta taunt them with the prospect of an Urzaâs Saga that not only keeps its ability to produce tokens and colorless mana, but can also make red and will never die to its own effect! THEN you drop the hammerâŠ
â@@goozilla123 It's still a saga, it just has no chapter abilities anymore. A saga with no chapter abilities is defined as having a highest chapter number of 0, meaning it gets sacrificed when it has 0 or more saga counters on it.
@@connorhamilton5707 That's right, but sometimes it's not about explaining the correct board state immediately, it's about telling a story.
âYou think precedent is less hard? Practice law!â As a law student i agree
3:12 - dammit... missed my vip!
11:00 - by like 8 min.
The weirdest parts about the lack of rulebook are:
1) The OCG has a rulings database that is constantly updated. The TCG could just translate that officially, but they refuse to do their jobs and Ygorg has to do their jobs for them.
2) The TCG has cards ruled different from the OCG because they were printed _wrong_. Straight up different card text, a relevant example being Amorphactor Pain (its turn skip effect is not an activated effect in the OCG, you cant respond to it with an omni negate). This is also covered by a fanmade database, once again the fans have to cover up for Konami of America's incompetence and negligence.
âThe only rule is that there are no rules, we make everything up and blow up the moon.
Season one probably
Just imagine the appendix for the rulings of Last Turn. It would be longer than the full rulebook itself.
Whatever the current length of the rulebook is: double it.
The appendix for Last Turn's rulings is just: If you play this card, you go to jail.
Or just "no"
@@TWLSpark "If you play this card and call a judge, your local judges are allowed to kill you however they like."
@@TWLSpark Or "this card is banned for a reason, stop asking questions."
@@halodragonmaster so it would go from 23 to 46 pages. Neat.
I literally lost out on winning my locals tournament the week the noble knight box came out (yknow the platinum rare one). All the normally serious/good players decided to goof around and play NK that week. I was maining ghostricks at the time. Judge said my Ghostrick Doll couldn't apply during the end phase because it was no longer on the field. Ghostrick Doll successfully activated and resolved but the judge was saying I couldn't apply the effect during the end phase because Doll was no longer on the field.
I will never not hold onto this as an example of why we need a rulebook in yugioh like mtg has, losing a match purely because of an objectively incorrect judge ruling has to be the worst feeling in this game and dissuades me from playing IRL. Sure alt formats may entice me if they where properly supported but we still have this looming shadow of shitty rulings ruining a tournament held over us regardless.
And for anybody reading this I am mostly just pissed that that was literally the only week EVER ghostricks could win a tournament where it 2-0s a YCS champ and multiple other good players, idc that it was a locals and idc that it took people goofing around with a bad archtype. I just wanted to be able to say I went undefeated with ghostricks.
if judges had to cite a section in a rule book to make a judgement it would avoid the issues of incorrect judges cause then the judge has to make the case instead of it being "trust me bro" and could be proven wrong.
The MTG Rulebook has been compared to an actual Law School Education
If we get a YGO Rulebook I expect to at least get a community law degree
"Attacking with vanilla 3/3s in draft" Fun fact: there are currently no vanillas legal in Standard right now
Fear?
@@halodragonmaster
1) Vanilla means it has no text. You must be meaning a "french vanilla", which means it only has keywords on it.
2) Fear hasn't been used in over a decade.
There are more banned cards than vanillas in standard.
@@kateslate3228 There are more cards that don't function as intended than vanillas in standard.
The YGO rulebook only explains how each type of card works. It doesn't explain how interactions work or any of the psct. That stuff has to be learned on your own. An example being the whole "missing the timing" rules. Just having a comprehensive rule book that can be referenced for certain common interactions would be very helpful.
There's also a new layer issue that actually comes up because modern: dress down and dryad of the illysian grove. Dryad loses it's ability to play extra lands but layers say it's still going to change the types of all lands you control. Same with magus of the moon.
Until someone makes a basic computer in a ygo game, ygo only players can't say shit about ygo being a more complex game. More *complicated* game? Sure.
@@LegendLeaguer its complex because ygo has needlessly unintuitive rules and edge cases. MTG just has a gigachad robust resolution and rule engine.
That's not a new layer issue, that's just an aspect of the layer system becoming more prominent due to a new card. It's the exact same circumstance with Humility, where abilities are lost in layer 6, but if they have already started applying (type-changing is in layer 4) then losing the ability is irrelevant.
If you want a weird side-effect of the layers system, then look at how giving the Changeling ability (this creature has all creature types) to a creature wouldn't actually give any creature types. To get consistent results, the layer system looks at each object starting with the base then the Layers are applied in order and once you've gone through them you stick with the results until they need to be checked again (such as when one of the effects leaves or a new one gets played). Giving abilities happens in layer 6, which is after layer 4 has been completed, so even though the creature now has the Changeling ability it is too late for it to do anything. That's why there are no cards that grant Changeling, and instead we get cards that just grant all creature types like Amoeboid Changeling. Moritte of the Frost is probably the only example of "giving" a creature Changeling, and it only works because it is part of layer 1 where copy effects are applied.
@@connorhamilton5707 I meant newer as in they're a combination of effects that are more prominent in recent play patterns in modern.
Dear god, yes this game needs a universal rulebook!
Been playing fpr 8 years and it wasnt until Master Duel visually played out all the effects infront of my two eyes that I finally felt like I had a somewhat decent understanding of the games mechanics and how they work.
A lot of those don't translate over to the TCG, but it can help in some situations and it will still help with understanding certain mechanics and how certain cards are supposed to work (some times).
Magic isnt the only game with this. Vanguard has a comprehensive rulebook that goes pretty hard on details regarding timings, wording, etc. And if that doesn't answer your question, the card page on their website will often contain a few rulings on each card, scenarios that may come up when playing the card. Worst comes to worst, you can email them and actually get a response back. I will say the email one can get a little messy at times.
the email part is smart, it accounts for anything they might have missed or became relevent after the fact.
The fact Master Duel was coded into a computer program means Yugioh has rules that can be codified, and Konami literally has that code, it just doesn't let you see it
Master duel exists. They had to figure out the rules so that they could program the interactions in. The knowledge exists out there, but konami isn't sharing.
I feel like one of the big issues with this is that rulings surrounding a particular card don't link to the same rulings on other cards when you're looking online. If they were to do this, it would be a lot easier to find the answers, rulebook or no rulebook
I don't want to have to think "what's the oldest card that has this kind of effect?" while looking for a card rulings. I was talking with the EDOPro devs once about how Stardust Dragon would interact with Limiter Removal, and even they didn't have the answer. I don't even remember what ruling we looked at for the answer, but it sure as hell wasn't a card I'd heard of before
I had a rule mcguffin in Master Duel yesterday where I was playing an entirely new engine/archetype that I hadnât seen before, lost, saved the replay, and had to comb through like 9 turns worth of cards to figure out where the hell the âyour opponent cannot activate Spell/Trap cards during the battle phaseâ card was because the game didnât acknowledge it as an effect activating.
that's because continous effects do not activate, that part is normal
@@joplin4434 Was a banished effect monster
@@dabbingtoast7743 it is still the same. Think of the classic makyura the destroyer, it says when it goes to the gy you can use traps from your hand that turn. You would think that this means it triggers when it hits the gy but nope, you cannot negate it as it doesn't "activate", it's just a continous effect with a condition.
Jinzo is an easier example, but further removed from this case. He has one condition (being face up on the field) and one continous effect, so cards that "negate an effect" do stop him like an effect veiler, but cards that "negate the activation of an effect" would do nothing to it so a solemn strike would be DOA if you normal summon the jinzo like it is against makyura and your case
MTG has that rulebook in part because in 6th edition (released 1999) they went through and standardized a whole lot of shit.
A bunch of existing cards which didnt make sense with the structure of the new rules got official rewordings that were insanely clunky, long and confusing for if they ever came up in official play and were just never reprinted. A whole card type, Interrupts, was removed because the new rule structure meant they were identical to another card type, Instants.
Occasionally modern sets will have to word an ability kind of awkward to fit in with this but mostly its been a godsend.
Animate Dead says hello
Anyone else get the feeling they don't wanna criticize the game because they're afraid Konami is going to punish them and do something to the game?
I can't imagine someone looking at the criticism "this game needs to explain its rules" and their take away being "no its impossible," be given an example of it being done in a more complex game, and still doubling down if this weren't the case.
I mean how would Konami TCG, thatâs who people are complaining about, do something to the game when itâs the OCG branch that controls the game?
The only thing Konami TCG does is try something and either gets indication that the players donât care or gets mocked for doing so stops. MBT talked about the time they explained the banlist and everyone laughed at them because they didnât just give âto sell new productâ as the reason. Despite the fact that âto sell new productâ is the reason for every restriction on any restriction list for a card game and not whatever reason they state.
So what is the point of Konami TCG even bothering in their mind.
Knowing us we would get a comprehensive rulebook and still complain.
@@mrbubbles6468 The game CANNOT survive if new players can't get in, and not having a comprehensive rulebook ensures that only people who already know the game will continue to play it. And those people won't be around forever. It is in the best interest of both Konami OCG and TCG to make the game actually playable and understandable because nostalgia and hard-core fans will only go so far.
@@mrbubbles6468 Missing context. They just literally did the most violent push for money in their entire history (literally banning everything that could've been used against the up and coming metagame way back when), and then tried to excuse themselves for whatever reason - what were players supposed to do but make fun at them for such a stupid move? Everyone knew what they did it, so what was even the point?
It's not that people don't care anymore about what the TCG branch has to say, but that everytime they do, it's just "talk first, think later" and it just ends badly every single time. If they actually took their job seriously, I'm sure everyone would pay heed to what they have to say. It really isn't that hard - if the OCG can, so can they.
You're telling me that yugioh players can't call a judge to ask what rule 104.3a is on their struggling opponent?
Yugioh players be like:
"If konami doesn't give a sh*t about giving us the rules for THEIR game they are todally right buddy, stop complaining"
Like wtf? you're being treated like less than a number and you somehow enjoy it?
It's not the first time that people in our community out themselves as the b*tches of konami.
I hate the humility example everyone uses but I'm so glad you explained WHY it is complicated no one explains why. They just show the two cards and call it a day.
Something that still blows my mind is how rulings in the TCG are "what you head judge says". This is insulting to the player base, rulings can change from event to event because someone can feel like it.
Meanwhile MTG has a full written rulebook, some f*ck up card effects, no limits on how many cards can be on the board and waaaay more playable cards. I mean c'mon man this is ridiculous!
To be fair to the chatters her Joseph, the whole "its too much work" argument is probably the actual reason konami doesnt do it, unless it had some inmediate monetary benefit i dont see them doing it
"If they made a rule book it'd make it a lot harder to rule shark my opponent on dueling book!"
The worst part is that ygo has an extensive ruling database and judges in the tcg are so fucking stubborn to not accept it, instead pulling rulings out their asses to benefit their friends in tournaments.
One of my early tournament experiences was a judge at regionals trying to tell me that if you negate a continuous spell cards activation it stays on the field because "it's continuous"
Ended up losing that match because the guy didn't feel like referencing a rule book. Not even a ruling, a game mechanic. I hate yugioh sometimes
In fairness to the judge, that negating a continuous spell card's activation stops it from staying on the field is not in any rulebook anywhere. You just need to know it.
That said, this is certainly something that judges _should_ know.
This baffles me not because the judge gave an asinine ruling, but correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't LITERALLY EVERY single card that has the text "negate the Summon/activation" also have "and/and if you do, destroy/banish/shuffle it" immediately after, in order to solve this problem?
@@dejavureal subterror fiendess. She doesn't destroy, just negates the activation of a card or effect. I was attempting to negate the activation of the card.
@@BoBnfishy I looked, and it's literally the first sentence under Continuous Spells in the dinky "rulebook" we have.
"These cards remain on the field once they are activated, and their effect
continues while the card stays face-up on the field."
How the hell does someone become a judge and not know this?
as a magic player, the fact that this is even a question among yugioh players is mind boggling to me. How do you not have a comprehensive rule book that has everything in it?
"The amount of stuff you can do with magic cards far eclipses what you can do in yugioh"
Some guy made a computer using magic cards
You can probably do that with any game
â@@mrbubbles6468 no the video states they've tried with other card games. you probably can't in yugioh due to limited zones
And, in that game where the starting life total is 20, people have found a way to do 2 â408 20 damage in a single turn without any infinite combo (for people unfamiliar with â notation, know that it's used to write numbers so large they can't reasonably be represented as 10^(some large number), or 10^10^bignum, or 10^10^10^bignum, or... you get the point).
But that's not all! 2 â408 20 damage in a turn without infinites is old news. Nowadays, they have to use a completely different notation which expresses numbers so large, â notation is impractical for them.
Beyond that, because of the way restrictions on blocking work in MtG, it is posssible for a gamestate to be reached where one player must solve a CoNP-hard problem for the game to continue following the rules.
MtG's rules engine is _fun._
@@delta3244 Its a beautiful level of skill ceiling with rules that let it be wild but understandable.
As I have been led to understand it, a lot of the issues pertaining to the lack of a comprehensive rulebook come to deal with the fact that Konami doesn't actually own the Yu-Gi-Oh IP. For them to be allowed to make a comprehensive rulebook (or make virtually any other decision), they have to get approval from all of the other entities that also license the IP, many of which don't care about the card game aspect of Yu-Gi-Oh at all, and view a complex rulebook as detrimental towards the "Children's Card Game" image they want for marketing purposes. It's really dumb but it's not likely to get any better any time soon.
Thats nonsense, the OCG actually puts out comprehensive physical rulebooks every year. The people in charge of the TCG are just too lazy to translate them.
As far as the management of the card game goes, OCG and TCG are separate entities and each have their own bs red tape they have to go through, and it's way worse on the TCG side. Most instances of "Konami is too lazy/uncaring to do X thing the entire community wants" is because of stuff that is largely out of their control, lack of a "Perfect Rulebook" included.
@@batsmak2506 not in this case, Kevin Tewart, the guy in charge of the TCG, explicitely said that PSCT was created for to avoid the need for rulebooks, because in his opinion having to look up references is silly (his actual words) and everyone is supposed to work out everything from the exact words used by the cards
That statement was first made literally 5 years before the first "Perfect Rulebook" appeared in the OCG and was in reference to the practice of needing to look up specific rulings for specific cards all the time, something that admittedly is sometimes still an issue in ocg even with their "Perfect Rulebook." It's quite likely that when that statement was made, the idea they would ever get that far even in the OCG seemed unlikely. Kevin Tewart has made a lot of very odd claims in the past though so I'm not going to claim I know anything there.
Regardless, other entities have say in card game affairs that realistically from a design/development standpoint they shouldn't have, and it has a negative impact to the overall health of the TCG.
@@batsmak2506 that doesnt explain why the TCG goes as far as forbidding everyone from even looking up rulings in any way and insisting judges should wing it. no way something like that is imposed by Japan
Okay fun tidbit: At the start of the ZeXal era, Xyz Materials existed on the field. This was in contrast with the OCG which stated that Xyz Materials were neither monsters nor considered to be on the field (i.e. how it is now). The caused 2 things: Tour Guide of the Underworld shot up to $250 due to it's specific interaction TG-Sangan into Leviathan Dragon, detach sangan to search for basically whatever you wanted and the entire rulings nightmare of, "what happens when you Xyz Summon using Reborn Tengu as Xyz material"
This ranged from: Tengu special summons immediately, tengu special summons when the Xyz Monster dies, and Tengu is special summoned after it is detached as Xyz material.
This is something Digimon Card Game did very well imo
Besides the Manual and Glossary it has both a Detailed Rules and a Q&A/General Rules document which go into rules for a variety of interactions between effects and they keep updating them as they add more effect types and mechanics
The difficulty to find rules for different card interactions legitimately makes me anxious to play Yugioh in paper or in places like DB. Sure I can read up on whatever isolated rulings are available but I'm never confident in how the underlying mechanics of the game are supposed to work.
Daily shoutout to Sodaâs extended rulebook on master duel meta. Itâs just this and itâs fab made and beautiful.
I feel like if KoA put like 10 people in a room and had them put together a cohesive rulings list while referencing the OCG we would have a much clearer understanding of the game. I donât care how long it would take, I want people to be on the same level of knowledge on cards and be able to say without a doubt hey this is what happens due to this interaction. I agree that I shouldnât have to check a card ruling from 2008 to know how a 2022 interaction plays out.
there should not be a need to check a ruling from 2008 for a 2022 card, it should either be covered by a generic ruling or b unique enough to warrents its own ruling section
They must have some sense of groundrules for interactions. After all master duel exits and every interaction can happen on it. Therefore if it can be written in code it can be written in a rulebook.
They can't even keep their miniscule rulebook updated. In April 2020 the rules were updated in the OCG. At that time in the TCG, Konami refused to make an official announcement about the rule changes, even though this forced every single event organiser to say 'for this event we are also using these extra rules'. Eventually, almost a whole year later, they made posted a surprisingly well-hidden article on their website that details the changes. It is only 4 rules and 12 sentences. It also has a note "These will be incorporated into an upcoming rulebook update." They are yet to publish that update, a year and a half later.
I'm shocked by how many people would rather just leave rulings to a judge's interpretation of the rules rather then a rulings book that says this is what happens and why. As it stands, rulings can vary from judge to judge and that creates even more confusion for not only the players but other judges down the line who may be looking back on past rulings only to see conflicting answers. They don't need ever interaction documented, but documenting tricky and problematic card interactions would make things better for everyone and give clear guidelines for how the game is played.
absolutely wild that the same community that shat their pants when EU had different rulings for that one remote YCS is so against the idea of a rulebook
Its ridiculous that players have to tell each other âBe sure to ask the head judge at the event about X ruling before you submit your decklistâ. If they provided a ruling database / rulebook we wouldnât have to hunt down one person in the venue to get a sometimes questionable answer only to get a completely different answer from the head judge at the next event.
Kyle Hill made a computer based off looping magic card effects while playing within the rules of the game....
I'm a magic judge and I love the fact that we have comprehensive rules since it allows me to treat rulings as a puzzle rather that having to take wild guess or search for similar existing rulings
A thing I like about Magic's rulebook is that nearly every card (besides the most basic ones) has rulings. Most are common scenarios, some are for those times you think outside the box, there are even a few jokes scattered around. Don't know how X works? Odds are looking up the card will bring up an answer with a generic example so you aren't stuck looking for a judge.
Some cards are too weird to cover everything, but those are mostly high cost cards - which tend not to see much play anyway. Ask a judge about Panglacial Wurm, and they'll likely just nope away - those jank scenarios are too unrealistic, why bother with them?
But even without rulings, the rulebook covers everything you need to know. For example, thanks to Panglacial Wurm, you can cast spells without priority or even win a game while losing it 3 times. Makes no sense, but that's what the rules say.
But you can't win the game while losing it 3 times. It's in the Rules. "104.3f If a player would both win and lose the game simultaneously, that player loses the game." Note, that it is currently impossible to both win and lose the game at the same time.
@@AtomTomZeitalter I think they're referencing cards like Platinum Angel, where your life total can be below zero, but you can't actually lose.
@@AtomTomZeitalter Yes, but that requires the game state to be actually checked. Thanks to Panglacial Wurm, you can create a game state where you lose in multiple ways (0 life, 10 infect, draw from empty deck), but manage to win the game before the game state gets checked.
@@MrZerodaim So getting to 0 life and drawing from an empty library while casting Panglacial Wurm is relatively simple. For the poison counters, I guess something like Elves of Deep Shadow enchanted with Corrupted Conscience would be a way to do it. But how do you win the game with a mana ability?
@@Felixr2 It's an unlikely scenario, but it's relatively simple too! You draw from an empty library again, but this time with Laboratory Maniac. "Exile until" effects don't wait for the gamestate to be checked, the exiled permanent returns immediately when the source of the exile leaves the field. So, if you have Laboratory Maniac exiled by Angel of Condemnation, you can use Ashnod's Altar to sacrifice the angel (that's a mana ability) and have the Lab Man return in the middle of all this mess. Then you draw again, but because Lab Man is there, you win instead - which instantly ends the game, without any gamestate check beforehand.
Difficulty is not an excuse since even if all the OCG rulings can't be used. most cards are simple by either being normal monsters or simple effects which generic rulings would perfectly cover. trap monsters would be mostly solved as a general mechanic rules. theres barely any problem cards, they just appear a lot so the cards that woud make it supposedly impossible are a small minority.
They already made master duel which should be coded to deal with rulings issues when being programed so konami themselves should already have some ruling guideline for most cards.
The MtG rules looked like the YGO rules until 1999 when WotC did what everyone is saying is impossible and revamped the game rules.
People act like making a comprehensive rulebook requires divine insight. It just requires Konami spend some money and hire a few people.
I feel like this whole video should be part of the "What other card games do better than yugioh"
Thank you!! When I started to get into yugioh this year, my friend was helping me try to understand. I was constantly asking him "why", and he had to explain about 10 different cards before he could answer my question
we only need to translate the master duel code to words
Yea, its literally in the official sim.
fun fact: ocg and tcg have different rulings sometimes.
@@mekklord
thats because all current rules are just rulings made by judges in the past.
which is exactly the reason why an official rule book is needed.
its konamis responsibility to put down rules for their game instead of forcing judges to make sense of this hot mess every time a weird interaction comes up.
cause judges arent perfect and there are more contradictory rulings in this game than a fucking lawbook.
MD uses different rulings and it also has some errors, for example the shizuku shuffle doesn't work.
I realize that it's not the main part of this video but I died at the "Longer than the constitution.' because Jesus Christ the constitution isn't fucking long
I love when MBT gets unhinged and just absolutely shits on people with ass takes, literally so entertaining
12 min clip
yeah, this should be on the main channel tbh - i'd even watch a longer version too
when the clip is video
You're expecting more player based involvent from a company who released Master Duel 10 months ago and the only events they've held are "What If you couldn't use URs?" "What if it was only Synchros?"
And a new mates, fields and sleeves every few months. đ€Ł
I mean specifically because MD exists and has all of the cards there must be a complete set of rules programmed into it
MD is handled mostly by the OCG and works on those rulings. The OCG has a ruling database. So yws, I would expect one from the people that made MD as there is one.
I wouldnât expect it for the TCG which neither the TCG or OCG cares about
@@mrbubbles6468 Why shold the TCG even be allowed to have different rules in the first place? So the tl team can fuck around?
@@PAPP0NE no, the TL is the same (most of the time, sometimes they goof). Just some rules make cards interact differently, and for no discernable reason. For example, in the OCG hand triggers act like quick effects, but in the TCG you just use them at actual trigger effect timing.
The average yugioh player would melt like having witnessed the ark of the covenant if they had to solve Oko Elk-ing a Magus of the Moon
In their defense Oko was a mistake for numerous reasons.
This one is still bullshit, rulebook or otherwise lol
If it's possible to code a yugioh simulator like Master Duel, it's also possible to write a rulebook
What bothers me is why do people not want a rulebook? Do yall want an argument on a past ruling every something weird happens, cause I just want to know which discards activate my dark worlds without having to consult a list
They CAN do it. Take the OCG database and convert things to our current hand trigger rulings and etc. wouldnât be hard
As a long time MTG player (i started playing in 1993) a proper rulebook is possible. The game is more complex. The problem is that yugioh text is more complex for simple concepts for no real reason.
Also one key thing everyone forgets is Konami made this rulebook already. It is called Master Duel! There has to be a way for this information to be put into a rulebook.
The fact is all of these things do clearly have some official ruling in some capacity, you could assume every card in master duel etc. Works the way it's intended so just like playtest some general interactions and then write them down or some shit
Since this video is on the topic of Rulings, there's one ruling that always baffled me and that is when a cards with the effect "If a card is sent to the GY banish it" interaction with Pendulum monsters. For some unknown reason a Pendulum monster will still be banished despite the text stating and I quote 'Sent to the GY'. Pendulum monster's aren't sent to the GY when they leave the field so it shouldn't be banished while that type of effect is on the field. Hell Pendulum monster's can't be sent from the field to the GY for a cost because of a ruling but I completely understand that one.
one that was particuarly a konami said so moment was primeval plant perlereino using the word shuffle for a deck which returns monsters to the bottom of the deck, when returned to the deck is already a usable term. so to get any logic from it shuffling does not need the deck to be randomized. imagine getting unicorned and just putting the card on the bottom or searching a card and not randomizing the deck at all.
@@ArcheTelos I would agree if the text didn't say GY specially. If it said leaves the field then yeah I totally understandable but the card states the GY which makes it baffling to me.
@@ArcheTelos even then pends would not be sent to extra not the GY so the card effect and rulebook would agree with each other. ignoring summoning conditions is an example of the rules being ignored
@@supremesage2206 a convenient "interpretation" for this ruling is that Pend's ED over GY mechanics works like a built-in continuous effect. Macro Cosmos-like eff will override that.
Why can't they at least do what magic did whenever they made their rule book, they take all the popular cards in current format and all the popular or even rogue interactions that all the new cards can have and they take it one set at a time and add new rulings until they had a massive rule book that can encompass everything in the game
literally they could have a mini simulator in Neuron app where you plug in the cards on field/interactions and press "go" and it calculates the result
I use edo for this but its on ocg rulings
Konami couldn't even write* certain effects in MD right, how are they supposed to write a script which calculates the rulings of the current board state?
@@bl00by_ by thinking of a logical set of rules which could then be put into a ruling engine, like yugioh GBA games have done. magic has way higher peaks in complication and it manages to have logic to its rulings