I fish a lot of Stillwater and have since started using the trout Spey rods the last 4-5 years. Being able to put a roll cast out 60-70’ gave me a lot of high catch days ! Sometimes the trout are just not in close !
Kelly, Terrific video with history of fishing methods combined with tactics of today's equipment (over equipment) Please do more of these where you revisit history & merge it with the modern day techniques. Best Regards-Charles Friedman
I'm new to fly fishing and these 2 videos helped my cause greatly. Kept trying to cast way to far and getting frustrated. Short game is where it's at 👍 Thanks bud
Spot on, I've been making this same argument for 20+ years, but unfortunately many fly fisherman just want to do what is trendy, which isn't necessarily practical.
Definitely 👍 when talking about trout and river fishing. But, I could not disagree more when talking about other species such as Large mouth bass, still water fishibf. Fairly long casts of around 70', blind casting produce a lot of fish for me. The species of the fish matters. Bass don't tend to care if you splash one down a little hard from time to time.
My favorite cast is stop your line short ,pop it to keep the first foot of your leader out of the water .You essentially recoil your fly backwards to get the slack you need .Getting closest you can to fish ,angle and timing a fish to me is more important to me than a fancy perfect fly.When fishing to risers I don’t usually let my fly drift more than a couple feet then recast.Drift invites drag,I catch most of my fish at 10-25 ft even in large rivers.
You're info is right on target. Unfortunately rod and fly line makers can't grow their market share by trotting out the same old product, even if it is the most effective tool for the job. The end result is anglers who fool themselves into believing that the latest gear will overcome their angling deficinies. There's simply no subsitute for time on the water.
That was back when the Sage RP II was just about the top end of rods- I fish a 8'6" RP II 5 wt a lot since I bought it in 1985- I remember I had to send the rod back for a reel seat repair, thinking I would be with out of for the season I bought the same rod but it was an RP-III way to stiff for a five wt but dam decent with a 6 weight sinking line fishing streamers! All my friends have just gone back to the Orvis Rods we fished in the early 1980's , In dry fly fishing, its always been about controlling the drift and accuracy! Getting the leader to do what you need it to do has always been the hard part, I am always making leader adjustments in my dry fly fishing, tippet material has gotten way to stiff over the years- I use to use a french tippet material that came on 100 meter spools- Racine Tortue that stuff was great! And then there was the old Orvis Green! As for me I been going to Glass and even bamboo for my dry fly fishing!
Great topic. I think every situation deserves it's own analysis and fishing style. Where small rivers and streams focus mainly on control and presentation, I have been in many back country still water fishing situations where distance is crucial to hitting the honey hole. That is if you don't want to get wet... Figuring it out is the beauty behind the game.
This is very true. I started to catch more trout by simply stalking up to a run and casting a shorter distance. It's easier to control my leader and hook trout.
To me the distance casters came about because of The River Runs Through It. People saw the movie and fell in love with the cinematics. Then came the must learn to fly fish. Here in Alberta, its hard to go to a garage sale and not see a 10 year old fly rod that's hardly used. When I ask why they are selling it, its because they couldn't cast more than 40 feet. Seems like all the fish are on the other side of the lake or something. 40 years after starting fly fishing without a tutor, I'm glad I found Slide Inn's videos. Turns out I've been on the right track all along.
I agree totally. My friend and I fish the Owyhee here in Oregon and the South Fork of the Boise in Idaho. By and large, most fish we target are within 15 - 20 feet, and they are usually about 3-5 feet from the bank. I think some people get caught up in the 'distance wars'. Yeah, it's a rush to bang a long cast out, but it's essentially worthless for dry fly. Looks cool in the movies though.
Blame the FFF. They were the dominant force in teaching fly casting, post “River”. That was there methodology, and the reason I let my Masters certification lapse. Mel and Barbara set curriculum back then and you couldn’t teach fishing. You taught tournament style casting.
Thank you for explaining this. I’m new to the game. Usually streamer fishing here in central Texas and was into that “how far can I cast thing” and you mentioned straight leader is fine here. But last few days I’ve been top watering foam bugs for large perch and small bass casting 20-30 ft. and definitely noticed if line/leader was straight current pulled bug like it had a motor. Started practicing mending and control and caught 12 fish in same area almost immediately, now I,m hooked..Thanks again for helping fellow anglers new and old alike. We appreciate it! (I think you mentioned one of your 1st flies was a perch one that works really well, do you have any videos or advice?) 🎣
There's a "scandi casting", "klaus frimor" video, on youtube, in which he demonstrates how to make the end of your line cast around corners. Great video.
Though therenare times where a far sloppy cast is all that will work as was my experience last weekend. Buggers thrown hard making a plop and 30 to 40 feet
I only cast distance when I’m on still water around spooky fish, especially if I’m somewhere where waders are impractical. In that kind of situation a long cast is very useful as long as it’s accurate. On a river 15 feet is pretty much what I aim for, with the fish more like 10 feet away as I want the fly to float over the fish. For me this is generally far enough to remain unnoticed but well within range of an accurate presentation.
Kelly, I'm interested in reading Gary Lafontaine's book you mention. I can't find a title "The Dry Fly Code" by him. The one I found is "The Dry Fly: New Angles". I was wondering if this is the same book you mention. Thanks for all of your insight and videos.
Dear Kelly you need to come over to Washington state and explain that to the Guides over here they think everything is about distance And everything is a top secret level one security Clarence they won't explain a dang thing. They tell they have to take you out for the day a charge You an arm and a leg and Bring you own lunch and by the way it's only a half a day
Single handed casting is 30ft or so tops, your guessing at best beyond that, 30 feet is even a guess in lots of water, if you are actually stalking a fish that you can see (excluding feeders that you can see as they sip/swirl) your nowhere near these idiotic distances, it's plenty of fun to do the spey thing, but your basically bass fishing at that point, your targeting high percentage water rather than hunting a specific fish, which at least for this kid is easily the most exciting thing about single handed fly rods, it's like bowhunting with a release option, and doesn't necessarily involve having all the nonsense that comes with bagging a deer or other game.
Heck yes it matters. Not necessarily because a person can cast a long way, but in learning to cast for distance, a person needs to pay attention to details - staying in plane, turnover, etc. A person learns to manipulate their fly line, and learning how to read the lay of their fly line after delivery to determine what little kinks may have been in the cast. All those techniques and nuances translate in to making a person a better overall fly fisher.
i say be as far away as possible whilst still having control of your fly.... rule number one .. dont spook the fish. 35 feet is super close .. thats about 25 feet of colored line out the eyelets of your rod.. thats 8 steps at a walking pace..there are alot of spots where the fish will spook if you get that close to them.....
Not that brutal of a concept. You fish to the fish. If it takes a long cast it means your window without drag on the fly is short, sometimes inches. I had some fish on the Henry's Fork rising in midday with godawful fishing pressure. They were in the middle heavy current about 40 to 50 feet out. You could get a decent drift of about 8 inches before drag. There was no other action so the game was making that cast. Sometimes your action is 10 feet. Fast rod has nothing to do with bad fishing. I knew Lafontaine and at the time of his writing of the referenced book the fastest rod was a Loomis IMX rod which I had. Used that till the GLX came along. Also had a slew of T&T rods. All about mastering each tool.
For dry fly fishing in rivers it doesn't . When I fish dry fly, I usually use "wiggle" cast and constantly reposition my line to avoid drag. With long cast it's almost impossible to do.
Seems to me fish are against the bank most of the time so distance is not critical angler position is more important. If a trout in 2 ft of water can see you at approx 27ft in fairly still water it would appear that 30ft is about all that is necessary from you to fly. A comedian told me once that jokes are always the same it's the "DELIVERY that gets the laughs ".
The Scott G-Series is one of our favorites, and Sage just came back out with their Lite Line Series as well. For a pure dry fly rod both of those are great rods!
@@TheSlideinn thanks i fish the eastern slopes of the Alberta Rockies almost every summer weekend and the cutthroat dry fly action is my absolute favorite fishing. 20" cutties on the dry is awsome. I also enjoy bull trout fishing with big streamers but im vary new to this technique. Your videos helped me huge these last few years thx. Have you ever fished southern Alberta's Bow river???
Sure does. There are just some situations where in you need power and finesse. Not all the time. they need to make a fly rod that can handle two type of tips - medium soft (close targets) and a fast with power (far).
Not everyone can afford, or wants to carry, multiple rods. A good 5wt gives you the ability to throw small dry flies, nymph rigs, as well as most trout streamers. It's the best option for a one size fits all fly rod.
Your right on. Companies market the long graceful cast to sell product. All the big fish I have ever caught have been within 25ft. Guess it depends on the river and section of river. If people would pay attention as they approach the water, observe their position and manage their line/leader they would be more successful. That process however is not always visually appealing. Much like the fly that takes 30 mins to tie. It may be pretty to look at but not always the effective. There is a place for long and graceful casts though. I must admit watching as a kid at the local casting pond, old timers shooting as much line as they can have me interest into the fly fishing world. Of course the moment I tried it. My local waters quickly educated and humbled. Much more to fooling a trout than distance. Thank you for the videos, great topic.
I completely disagree... I will more often than not catch most of my fish at 50 to 100 feet... And every now and then I'll get one at 120 feet, because I'll make the leader turn over just before it hits the water, it will then fall on the water with 10 % slack and make a very natural drift... I'm from south africa and I fish big rivers and fish of between 6 and 25 pounds... If what you're talking about is palm size trout in small steams then it's one thing... But in general I will hardly ever make a cast less than 50 feet to a fish in the surface...
Mr. Galloup, what are your thoughts regarding 5 wt fly rods? It seems this is the most popular rod in fly fishing. I can't seem to understand why. When it comes to small dry fly and nymph fishing I go for the 4 wt almost every time. When I want to fish streamers, hoppers, and multiple fly rigs I almost always reach for the 6 wt. It just seems the 5 wt doesn't handle either situation well. Thanks
+pvtcartman There are a couple reason they are so popular, when rod companies design trout rods they build the proto on a five weight mandrel so it is generally the best in the series, they don't build the other prototypes and test them they just mathematically increase and decrease the taper so it is usually the best. The other is that a lot of people wont do what you are doing have the perfect rod for the job preferring to cut down the middle and have one that is not perfect but will do either job ok but not perfect. I am in your school of thought and fish the right rod for the right job, funny most fly guys golf and they would never have just three clubs? KG
I fish a five most often because it's a great all-rounder for varying conditions. I can fish virtually any depth, streamers to tiny dries on waters that present those conditions. Traveling as light as possible when hiking in for the day means I'm not carrying two rigs. Unless I decide to fish one way for the entire day, I'm fishing a five or I'm walking past opportunities.
Did the "security blanket" of a copper wrist band do anything for ya besides psychosomatic effects? I hear that putting one on your rod helps it last longer and catch bigger fish...;-)
Very well put good job kelly
Kelly you are in tune with the river. I so enjoyed listening to your descriptions of what an angler needs to do. You’re a naturally good teacher.
I fish a lot of Stillwater and have since started using the trout Spey rods the last 4-5 years. Being able to put a roll cast out 60-70’ gave me a lot of high catch days ! Sometimes the trout are just not in close !
Kelly,
Terrific video with history of fishing methods combined with tactics of today's equipment (over equipment) Please do more of these where you revisit history & merge it with the modern day techniques. Best Regards-Charles Friedman
I'm new to fly fishing and these 2 videos helped my cause greatly. Kept trying to cast way to far and getting frustrated. Short game is where it's at 👍
Thanks bud
Spot on, I've been making this same argument for 20+ years, but unfortunately many fly fisherman just want to do what is trendy, which isn't necessarily practical.
I have the same argument now for 25 years and been told I didn't know what I was talking about thank you so much
Definitely 👍 when talking about trout and river fishing. But, I could not disagree more when talking about other species such as Large mouth bass, still water fishibf. Fairly long casts of around 70', blind casting produce a lot of fish for me. The species of the fish matters. Bass don't tend to care if you splash one down a little hard from time to time.
My favorite cast is stop your line short ,pop it to keep the first foot of your leader out of the water .You essentially recoil your fly backwards to get the slack you need .Getting closest you can to fish ,angle and timing a fish to me is more important to me than a fancy perfect fly.When fishing to risers I don’t usually let my fly drift more than a couple feet then recast.Drift invites drag,I catch most of my fish at 10-25 ft even in large rivers.
My best casting is short distance over lined small stream work. Spot on here!
You're info is right on target. Unfortunately rod and fly line makers can't grow their market share by trotting out the same old product, even if it is the most effective tool for the job. The end result is anglers who fool themselves into believing that the latest gear will overcome their angling deficinies. There's simply no subsitute for time on the water.
That was back when the Sage RP II was just about the top end of rods- I fish a 8'6" RP II 5 wt a lot since I bought it in 1985- I remember I had to send the rod back for a reel seat repair, thinking I would be with out of for the season I bought the same rod but it was an RP-III way to stiff for a five wt but dam decent with a 6 weight sinking line fishing streamers! All my friends have just gone back to the Orvis Rods we fished in the early 1980's , In dry fly fishing, its always been about controlling the drift and accuracy! Getting the leader to do what you need it to do has always been the hard part, I am always making leader adjustments in my dry fly fishing, tippet material has gotten way to stiff over the years- I use to use a french tippet material that came on 100 meter spools- Racine Tortue that stuff was great! And then there was the old Orvis Green! As for me I been going to Glass and even bamboo for my dry fly fishing!
Absolutely perfect! Sometimes the fish is just to damned far to throw to. Tight lines Kelly!
That really helped me chance my mind set, especially since I'm fishing for carp.
johnny awesome tier and fly fishermen best guide in Montana! !!!!!
A-flippin-men!!!
Great topic. I think every situation deserves it's own analysis and fishing style. Where small rivers and streams focus mainly on control and presentation, I have been in many back country still water fishing situations where distance is crucial to hitting the honey hole. That is if you don't want to get wet... Figuring it out is the beauty behind the game.
This is very true. I started to catch more trout by simply stalking up to a run and casting a shorter distance. It's easier to control my leader and hook trout.
To me the distance casters came about because of The River Runs Through It. People saw the movie and fell in love with the cinematics. Then came the must learn to fly fish.
Here in Alberta, its hard to go to a garage sale and not see a 10 year old fly rod that's hardly used. When I ask why they are selling it, its because they couldn't cast more than 40 feet. Seems like all the fish are on the other side of the lake or something.
40 years after starting fly fishing without a tutor, I'm glad I found Slide Inn's videos. Turns out I've been on the right track all along.
Tell me which combo specifically casts easiest and furthest.
I agree totally. My friend and I fish the Owyhee here in Oregon and the South Fork of the Boise in Idaho. By and large, most fish we target are within 15 - 20 feet, and they are usually about 3-5 feet from the bank. I think some people get caught up in the 'distance wars'. Yeah, it's a rush to bang a long cast out, but it's essentially worthless for dry fly. Looks cool in the movies though.
Blame the FFF. They were the dominant force in teaching fly casting, post “River”. That was there methodology, and the reason I let my Masters certification lapse. Mel and Barbara set curriculum back then and you couldn’t teach fishing. You taught tournament style casting.
Thank you for explaining this. I’m new to the game. Usually streamer fishing here in central Texas and was into that “how far can I cast thing” and you mentioned straight leader is fine here. But last few days I’ve been top watering foam bugs for large perch and small bass casting 20-30 ft. and definitely noticed if line/leader was straight current pulled bug like it had a motor. Started practicing mending and control and caught 12 fish in same area almost immediately, now I,m hooked..Thanks again for helping fellow anglers new and old alike. We appreciate it! (I think you mentioned one of your 1st flies was a perch one that works really well, do you have any videos or advice?) 🎣
johnny 's the SHIT !!!
There's a "scandi casting", "klaus frimor" video, on youtube, in which he demonstrates how to make the end of your line cast around corners. Great video.
Though therenare times where a far sloppy cast is all that will work as was my experience last weekend. Buggers thrown hard making a plop and 30 to 40 feet
I broke my sage rpl 3 6wt I had for over 30 years today,I almost cried.A great big River dry flyrod ,broke my damn heart.
I only cast distance when I’m on still water around spooky fish, especially if I’m somewhere where waders are impractical. In that kind of situation a long cast is very useful as long as it’s accurate.
On a river 15 feet is pretty much what I aim for, with the fish more like 10 feet away as I want the fly to float over the fish. For me this is generally far enough to remain unnoticed but well within range of an accurate presentation.
Kelly, I'm interested in reading Gary Lafontaine's book you mention. I can't find a title "The Dry Fly Code" by him. The one I found is "The Dry Fly: New Angles". I was wondering if this is the same book you mention. Thanks for all of your insight and videos.
+Fillmore Corpus
I'm not sure how he got the "code" part, but the book he is referencing is "The Dry Fly: New Angles." -- John
Dear Kelly you need to come over to Washington state and explain that to the Guides over here they think everything is about distance
And everything is a top secret level one security Clarence they won't explain a dang thing. They tell they have to take you out for the day a charge
You an arm and a leg and Bring you own lunch and by the way it's only a half a day
Single handed casting is 30ft or so tops, your guessing at best beyond that, 30 feet is even a guess in lots of water, if you are actually stalking a fish that you can see (excluding feeders that you can see as they sip/swirl) your nowhere near these idiotic distances, it's plenty of fun to do the spey thing, but your basically bass fishing at that point, your targeting high percentage water rather than hunting a specific fish, which at least for this kid is easily the most exciting thing about single handed fly rods, it's like bowhunting with a release option, and doesn't necessarily involve having all the nonsense that comes with bagging a deer or other game.
Do you have a video for tips on controlling your leader?
Paula, you know I don't and that is a great idea for next spring. Stay tuned, thanks . KG
Heck yes it matters. Not necessarily because a person can cast a long way, but in learning to cast for distance, a person needs to pay attention to details - staying in plane, turnover, etc. A person learns to manipulate their fly line, and learning how to read the lay of their fly line after delivery to determine what little kinks may have been in the cast. All those techniques and nuances translate in to making a person a better overall fly fisher.
Makes total sense in dry fly fishing for trout. But, distance does become important in salt water fly fishing.
i say be as far away as possible whilst still having control of your fly.... rule number one .. dont spook the fish. 35 feet is super close .. thats about 25 feet of colored line out the eyelets of your rod.. thats 8 steps at a walking pace..there are alot of spots where the fish will spook if you get that close to them.....
True..... 95% av all fish i'm catching is within 40 FT of line out. And then i have control.....
Try seeing a size 22 elk hair caddis at 25 feet. You won't!!
I cant see that at 10ft and I'm 28 with 20/20
Not that brutal of a concept. You fish to the fish. If it takes a long cast it means your window without drag on the fly is short, sometimes inches. I had some fish on the Henry's
Fork rising in midday with godawful fishing pressure. They were in the middle heavy current about 40 to 50 feet out. You could get a decent drift of about 8 inches before drag. There was no other action so the game was making that cast. Sometimes your action is 10 feet. Fast rod has nothing to do with bad fishing. I knew Lafontaine and at the time of his writing of the referenced book the fastest rod was a Loomis IMX rod which I had. Used that till the GLX came along. Also had a slew of T&T rods. All about mastering each tool.
For dry fly fishing in rivers it doesn't . When I fish dry fly, I usually use "wiggle" cast and constantly reposition my line to avoid drag. With long cast it's almost impossible to do.
Seems to me fish are against the bank most of the time so distance is not critical angler position is more important. If a trout in 2 ft of water can see you at approx 27ft in fairly still water it would appear that 30ft is about all that is necessary from you to fly. A comedian told me once that jokes are always the same it's the "DELIVERY that gets the laughs ".
So whats a good rod for dry fly fishing???
The Scott G-Series is one of our favorites, and Sage just came back out with their Lite Line Series as well. For a pure dry fly rod both of those are great rods!
@@TheSlideinn thanks i fish the eastern slopes of the Alberta Rockies almost every summer weekend and the cutthroat dry fly action is my absolute favorite fishing. 20" cutties on the dry is awsome. I also enjoy bull trout fishing with big streamers but im vary new to this technique. Your videos helped me huge these last few years thx. Have you ever fished southern Alberta's Bow river???
I like my Winston super10. Dries n small midges n chironomids just plain work for me with this rod.
Sure does. There are just some situations where in you need power and finesse. Not all the time. they need to make a fly rod that can handle two type of tips - medium soft (close targets) and a fast with power (far).
Not everyone can afford, or wants to carry, multiple rods. A good 5wt gives you the ability to throw small dry flies, nymph rigs, as well as most trout streamers. It's the best option for a one size fits all fly rod.
Your right on. Companies market the long graceful cast to sell product. All the big fish I have ever caught have been within 25ft. Guess it depends on the river and section of river. If people would pay attention as they approach the water, observe their position and manage their line/leader they would be more successful. That process however is not always visually appealing. Much like the fly that takes 30 mins to tie. It may be pretty to look at but not always the effective. There is a place for long and graceful casts though. I must admit watching as a kid at the local casting pond, old timers shooting as much line as they can have me interest into the fly fishing world. Of course the moment I tried it. My local waters quickly educated and humbled. Much more to fooling a trout than distance. Thank you for the videos, great topic.
Old school rods slow down, big loops are pretty.
I completely disagree... I will more often than not catch most of my fish at 50 to 100 feet... And every now and then I'll get one at 120 feet, because I'll make the leader turn over just before it hits the water, it will then fall on the water with 10 % slack and make a very natural drift... I'm from south africa and I fish big rivers and fish of between 6 and 25 pounds... If what you're talking about is palm size trout in small steams then it's one thing... But in general I will hardly ever make a cast less than 50 feet to a fish in the surface...
Mr. Galloup, what are your thoughts regarding 5 wt fly rods? It seems this is the most popular rod in fly fishing. I can't seem to understand why. When it comes to small dry fly and nymph fishing I go for the 4 wt almost every time. When I want to fish streamers, hoppers, and multiple fly rigs I almost always reach for the 6 wt. It just seems the 5 wt doesn't handle either situation well. Thanks
+pvtcartman There are a couple reason they are so popular, when rod companies design trout rods they build the proto on a five weight mandrel so it is generally the best in the series, they don't build the other prototypes and test them they just mathematically increase and decrease the taper so it is usually the best. The other is that a lot of people wont do what you are doing have the perfect rod for the job preferring to cut down the middle and have one that is not perfect but will do either job ok but not perfect. I am in your school of thought and fish the right rod for the right job, funny most fly guys golf and they would never have just three clubs? KG
I fish a five most often because it's a great all-rounder for varying conditions. I can fish virtually any depth, streamers to tiny dries on waters that present those conditions. Traveling as light as possible when hiking in for the day means I'm not carrying two rigs. Unless I decide to fish one way for the entire day, I'm fishing a five or I'm walking past opportunities.
Did the "security blanket" of a copper wrist band do anything for ya besides psychosomatic effects?
I hear that putting one on your rod helps it last longer and catch bigger fish...;-)