The Case For Ventless Dryers - My Experience
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Matt talks about his experience with ventless dryers and the pros and cons. He breaks down the kWh comparisons and his main reason for choosing ventless in his personal home.
ENERGY STAR Market & Industry Scoping Report
Residential Clothes Dryers: www.energystar.gov/sites/defa...
Electric Standard Vented Estimated Annual Energy Use : www.energystar.gov/productfin...
Electric Compact Ventless 120V Estimated Annual Energy Use : www.energystar.gov/productfin...
Miele T1 Heat-Pump Dryer: www.mieleusa.com/e/tumble-dry...
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American living in Europe for over a decade. We've had one of these heat pump-based tumblers for the past seven years. Were I to go back to the States, I'd get one of these in a heartbeat. Absolutely zero sense to keep burning natural gas in the home and venting out conditioned outside.
ok the question was the cost to heat/ cool the replacement air, without showing all the math and assuming a delta of 30 and a efficient heat pump system seer 20 your looking at 2 to 3 dollars a load with a standard drier.
@@michaelhill6451 The moist air is drawn through a cold evaporator, which condenses the moisture, which is then sent to a drain or tank. The now-dryer air is then drawn through the condenser, which reheats it prior to re-entering the drum. I believe some heat pump dryers have a water tank that needs to be emptied regularly, and some can be plumbed to a drain.
Some people do exhaust traditional dryers into the room, which is nuts.
@@pkeeneyActually they all have both nowadays. They come with a simple water drawer that fits one use (if drying towels), or two uses if drying some other wash loads. But if you dont want to empty this drawer each time you can detach the small hose, and directly attach it to a sink or other method of direct water outlet.
The only disadvantage of modern inverter-evaporator heat pump dryer is the time it takes to do the job. Which is usally about 3 hours, while the older dryers were MUCH faster. (But keep in mind that the the inverter ones use much less energy in 3 hours, than the older ones did in just half an hour!)
Ah, and i forget: you can actually dry anything in these heat-pump dryers, even clothes that actually say: no tumbledrying, no dryer on their label, because they only get up to about 40degree Celsius, and not as hot as the older ones.
@@paperburn Depending on your electricity cost/provider and type of dryer , you are looking at about 20 to 60c a load IF you can get a cheap/variable tariff, and like yeah maybe 1-2 dollars otherwise. Cheaper than a RESISTIVE dryer, but a gas dryer will be a similar price to a heat pump dryer on a cheap/variable electric tariff and way cheaper than one on a standard tarrif, at around 30-50c a load for a gas dryer.
However, a heat pump dryer will also serve as some heating in winter as it doesnt have to vent, and what you are really paying for is basically zero chance of fire.
If you have the know how, its also way more possible to run a heat pump dryer of local battery/generation from EITHER home renewables like solar panels or a generator in an emergency.
The middle option is to buy a big powerful moveable dehumidifier-can dry laundry bone dry in 4 hours or so just from being near a drying rack, works as a regular dehumidifier too, more expensive to run than a heat pump dryer due to not tumbling the clothes or confining them in a small space, but WAY WAY WAY cheaper to buy. You can get a 5-room-house rated dehumidifier for
All valid points.@@sc149
I love how you've got your new house and its just another laboratory. Always thinking, working, testing, improving. You're an impressive guy, Matt.
By doing this he can potentially tax deduct the appliances. He's doing a review for his monetized channel.
Who else thinks Matt doing dad chores and talking health is infinitely better than any insta-worthy video out there.
Who's watching anything meta related anymore?
Matt, great video.. Here's a rough calculation for you on the cost of reheating cold air in winter or cooling hot air in summer, in case of a standard vented dryer. Heating Main Assumptions: (1) You have no EnergyRecovery System (2) Your COP for heating is 1 (if use heat pump, this could be 2-4), (3) Indoor/Outdoor Temp difference is 40degF, (4) typical air density .075 lbm/ft^3, typical cp-air 0.24 Btu/lbm-F. (6) 9000ft^3/load and 365 loads/year. (7) little difference in heat added to interior space with vented or unvented. Heating Caculations: Q = mass*cp*deltaT, where m = density*Volume*365 = 246,375lbm ; Q = 246,375 * 0.24 * 40 * kwH / 3413 Btu = 693 kWhr ; Cost = $0.114 * 693 = $79. As you can see with the standard vented units, you spend about as much money restoring the household air as you do running the unit. Aside, I'm trying to transition from Aerospace/Mechanical/System Engineer to an MEP Engineer but I can't get an interview without direct experience.. if anyone knows anyone in North Jersey looking for an MEP engineer, please send them my way!
Thanks for running the numbers, saved me from doing it myself. At the approximate $140 dollars per year savings in this scenario, I think the cost premium break even point compared to a standard gas/electric dryer is likely close to the expected life, so in the end, no savings.
what's the cost premium break even point you're comparing to, and how is there no savings? not sure if I'm misreading Larry's comment...
@@D2O2 The fed is currently offering a 30% tax credit for buying one and is supposed to start offering rebates around mid 2023. I forget the exact amount but I think it was up to $750 in rebates plus the 30% credit which should almost pay for one.
Some parts of the country do not have electricity as low as $0.114/kWhr, plus possible peak demand rates... $0.20-$0.55+/kWhr depending on time of day usage. One could be looking at $160-380/yr for HVAC usage plus the initial standard electric dryer usage increase of $95-260/yr. The point is, your mileage may vary. For certain parts of the country, if a mid-priced washer/dryer set is $1500-2000, the ROI could be 4-6 years at the low end.
Energy aside, I still would not get on board until there's a unit from a reliable brand that can handle bulky items. (If such a brand still exists? Sorry, that's a whole other discussion)
@@jeffreysmith4586 The Government should get out of the rebate business. Let the free market decide.
Thanks for the update on proper skin care! I had a boss/buddy who over did life in his 20s and then over worked in his 30s and didn't make it to his 40s. Not only will taking care to use sunscreen keep your skin safe from cancer for longer, in your late 40s people will think you're still in your late 30s. It makes a staggering difference.
100% agree
@@buildshow ....now.
Have had 12 skin cancers. Have done the cream on my face and just finished the treatment on my forearms and back of my hands. No sun screen when I was a kid. 70 years old now.
@@stephenmiller6690 74 years old now with a childhood and young adult life out in the sun. At 39 I had a melanoma; never went in direct sun again for more than a few minutes since then (35 years) and, fortunately, no more problems. I simply don't like to fool with sunscreen, but if I knew I'd be out in it directly for longer (against my will) I'd definitely use sunscreen.
I very much doubt our ancestors had this problem. Maybe try cutting out the seed oils
You can confirm they are a risk by googling and immediately noting the experts debunked articles.
I have a full-size Whirlpool Ventless Heat-Pump dryer and I love it. I’ve had it for a year. It is truly full-size. I have a family of seven at home and it fits anything we need to dry.
My only 3 cons are slightly increased drying time, the unit seems to warm up the laundry room ever so slightly more than a vented dryer and the possibility of increased maintenance.
Now, for the pros, less electricity used, more heat settings, it can dry effectively at lower temperatures than any of my previous gas or electric dryers, no vent to leak, no risk of carbon monoxide, no negative pressure issues.
I’ve had in-laws use the dryer and not realize it’s any different at all.
GE has a new 4.8cf combo heat pump unit. Really glad someone of your caliber Matt finally brought this issue up. Another issue other than wasted air exchange $ is the fact that sometimes your a/c just wont keep a house cool in the middle of the day. Right now in Texas if we dry in afternoon my house will get up to 78 and humid even set at 73. we always try to dry late at night or early morning.
The combo units are super convenient (I have 2 LG combo condenser unit machines to avoid interior air exchange), but the new heat pump drying all-in-one machines' drying function efficiency is far below the efficiency of standalone heat pump dryers like the Miele's. I believe the new G.E. All-in-one washer/heatpump dryer machine's drying efficiency is something like 3x worse than a standalone Miele, like the one shown here.
Gotta check them numbers.
The new Samsung Bespoke has much better drying efficiency, but Samsung reliability is very questionable, particularly with inverter heat pumps (which has been a massive problem in their refrigerators).
I have watched multiple laundry videos in CZcams. You are the only one who used the right amount of detergent 😊
other benefit to the dryer, it runs on 110. you can literally drop it anywhere, plug it in, and good to go.
Regarding size, you can absolutely put more in there than what you ran on the video. I came from a 5.5cube Samsung set, and other than large comforters, there is actually little difference in the load sizes. you can basically fill the washer drum up to full.
It actually runs loads through faster than the old samsung set did. And the smaller size / stacked allowed us to put in upstairs vs main floor. huge benefit.
I have an almost 30 year old Miele washer and dryer, which are still working perfectly. Both units run in 220 volts, but the dryer never gets as hot as the typical American style dryers. I think it is designed to run cooler in order to prevent damage to the clothes. Another interesting thing is that the dryer changes directions just as the washer does, which prevents sheets and other such items from getting tangled into a big ball.
When I set the dryer to "normal" dry, the clothes have a very slight bit of dampness to them, which makes them easier to fold without wrinkles being set in. I'm going to try and keep this set as long as I can, but I won't hesitate to get another Miele set.
Miele has a patent for the reverse gear in the dryer. A part from that, the dampness usually vanishes in a couple of seconds, after you took out the clothes.
@@andreas7944 Apparently there are other dryers that also reverse, but I have never come upon them.
Electrolux T series - Models T5290, T5550, T5675 and stacked models T5300S and T5425S
Wascomat D Series - Models D735, D767, D783 and stacked models D735S and D750S
Maytag Commercial - Models MDG35PN, MDG52PN, MDG78PN, MDG75PN, MDG170PH, and MDG120PH
ADC Dryers - AD-30V, AD-50V, AD-758V, AD-115, AD-120, AD-170
The LG Ventless Washtower is stellar and has massive capacity. We just got a set and did a full king comforter with no problem.
Would you mind sharing the model # ? I’d love to check it out!
I see lg only has one model available now and it is 24” compact size.
@@charliexu1099 They have a combo unit with a 7.2 cubic foot ventless dryer. Model number WKHC202HBA.
@@Fredjikrang Ultra Large Capacity 4.5 cu. ft. Washer and 7.2 cu. ft. Dryer Single Unit Wash Tower™ $3,099 (1/10/2023)
@@Fredjikrang awesome. Thanks for sharing !
One difference between American full sized units and eu compact, especially Miele, is that you can absolutely stuff the compact unit full and it will still wash and rinse perfectly well. Miele’s instructions have recommended load sizes for each cycle type. I believe the towels cycles is around 8-10 lbs, which is around 8 full sized towels. Don’t be afraid to try it out! The machine you have is rated for 18 lbs of laundry, which is comparable to a full sized unit, so you won’t damage it.
I wanted to point out the same. Those machines are insane. If you have a large Family, I would recommend having 2 pairs. It actually saves time, since you can wash colors and white stuff in parallel. And if one machine breaks down, it is not a big deal. But a family of 4 really is fine with a 7-9KG or 14-20lbs rated machine. They really can handle that much.
You can stuff the "American full sized units" super full as well. This isn't a special thing.
@@Shazam999 not quiet true. American units have max load capacities on each cycle that often leave the drum volume less than full capacity. This is important for front loaders because they are most efficient and effective when the drum is at max capacity.
Ex. The max load size on my 4.5 cuft LG was only 18 lbs (same as Miele’s with a 2.24 cuft drum).
The only time the LG was anywhere near the drum’s capacity was when I would wash a an oversized king duvet. Often that huge capacity is just wasted space.
@@Shazam999 They do work different. And the approach with the heat pump does not need large gaps between the clothes to work efficiently. Think about it - if you need to blow large quantities of air through the clothes, it works better with gaps between them.
stuff any machine full and you're going to kill that machine, even if the manufacturer claims stuffing it full is fine, it'll be fine until it's not (basically past the warranty). just like how an entire generation of cars has "sealed for life" transmissions or modern CVT transmissions are great, right up until it's not.
I have the same dryer paired with a Miele little giant washer. It just requires you to change your behavior and understand that the clothes don’t have to have every bit of moisture removed at the end of the cycle. By not removing every bit of moisture you really reduce the wear on the fabric (which you can see in the lower amount of lint which come off of the clothes). Also, if you take it out while it is still warm, the clothes will dry naturally within five or 10 minutes even in a laundry basket.
If you don't dry clothes fully they get mildew and smell bad.
If you don't dry clothes fully they get mildew and smell bad.
@@brettknoss486 It's *crazy* how literally zero people report that being an issue, but do go on.
A friend of mine has the same machines as you (or whatever was sold 2 years earlier; they look identical), and he’s quite happy with them. I’ve had a Siemens (Bosch) heat pump dryer for 10 years now, and I am very happy with it. The reduced temperature and reduced default drying level are much gentler on fabrics in the long run.
I'm 27 and do landscaping for a living. I really appreciate you sharing what's going on with your skin. Its a good reminder on why not to skip out on the sunscreen. I know some of the guys regularly forget or don't use any at all.
I'm going to educate my crew better on this. Thank you Matt!
You may want to check out the impact of high Omega 6 (seed oils) and their highly oxidative state which continues after consumption and is incorporated into your cellular walls. Elimination of excess seed oils will eliminate need for sun screen and may decrease income potential for dermatologists.
@@maxaroney Eating a healthy diet is no substitute for proper sun protection. A healthy diet is good for overall health but will not prevent UV damage to your skin.
You CANNOT beat Miele, our washing machine, 27 years - ZERO faults, dryer, same, dishwasher 30 years, expensive, but by FAR the best!
We had Samsung washers in our rental properties, all 6 broke in under 5 years, complete rubbish.
Great video, I believe the old Miele slogan was: "Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten", how true!
We have a Miele vacuum cleaner, 36 years old, used every second day, still perfect!
I also had a washer dryer 10 years but unfortunately the dryer has a beeping sound and we don’t have a Miele service or agent here
We had a Miele, until one Good Friday when we called up for service, and they told us they were closed for the holiday.
The last time I checked, which was some time ago TBH, in the North Texas area there was ONE certified technician for the entire area. That is a population of millions of peoples people over several hundred miles! Also, the warranty was only 2 years AND that was if you got the certified technician to install the product. I can see buying it for quality but having the same warranty and twice the cost didn't seem worth it to me. This was for a dishwasher.
Things made decades ago were made when quality seemed to count. What you buy today is not the same at all. Companies know full well that there is far more profit in making and selling something (everything) that soon needs replacing (or needs constant disposable parts they sell you) in less than 5 years so you have to buy it again and again. Meanwhile, the old stuff fills up the landfills many times faster to burden taxpayers. Quality is for losers in Capitalism.
Yes, but that's from 27 years ago, are the new ones still the same build quality? Because it's not like the other manufacturers were as bad back then either.
Thanks for the great comparison. I always find it interesting how different the requirement for appliances are in different markets. Here in Germany we usually only have front loaders and the have been getting bigger in the last 10-15 years mostly due to efficiency calculation "tricks" leading to a better standardized rating as power & water consumptions don't increase linearly with the kilograms of laundry per cycle. But I do appreciate the bigger machines for bedding or a lot of towels, so I wouldn't want to go back to the tiny 4kg washers of the past 😂
I'd like to add two things about the Mieles as we have models from the same series at home. We also did have the issue that the clothes didn't feel as dry as we would like them to put them directly into the closet, but after shifting the "dryness baseline" in the settings as you said it is not an issue anymore.
Secondly it took a bit of time to get used to the time calculations even though our AEG/Electrolux set does this as well. Before starting the cycle they show the average time for the typical load size and then do load sensing in the first few minutes after starting a cycle. Depending on the size/weight and water absorption capacity of the load they calculate how long it will take to wash/dry and update the estimate. Most of the time they are close to the estimate but I also had them way off, eg when washing special outdoor fabrics :D
Anyway, Miele says they are doing the equivalent of 20 years of regular usage in their factory testing for the machines so I hope yours will last as long as they advertise. We have and had a few Miele appliances in the extended family and have yet to have a bad experience with them 😅 let's hope I haven't jinxed it now 😂
One thing you missed, I can attest to this from living in Minnesota, is the vent pipe is a huge hole in the thermal barrier. In the winter the vent pipe is cold, and on really cold days the entire dryer is uncomfortable to touch when off because of how cold it is.
That is also an efficiency loss.
Is it an insulated vent pipe, fully sealed/insulated around the holes as well?
Still not as bad as your space getting super humid and all your windows condensing after running a ventless for the 2+ hours it takes to dry a load.
@@RobertPaulson-ts6jd Thats welcome in the North in the Winter. My house was down to 20% humidity this week. I have a 3way valve and electric dryer. I vent straight into the house in the winder because the dry air is terrible for my wood floors, skin and respitory system.
@@andersonvikings
I would be concerned about the fire hazard of spontaneous combustion from lint, which is why venting indoors is usually against code. I would also be concerned about the lung health hazard of poor indoor air quality from petroleum-based lint spewed into my house.
@@free2beme773 The valve has a screen (As does the dryer) and I clean both every load. No issues with its air quality as my hepa filter senses contamination and has no change in air quality while running the dryer
I’ve been waiting for this video! Thank you
These little extra things are what make an already informative video extra valuable for the time to listen or watch.
Glad you're on the mend, Matt!!! Keep up the GREAT work!
Pretty much every high rise condo with 'in-unit laundry' in the NYC/NJ area uses these. They work fine. There's definitely a bit of left over steam so the big con is that if you don't immediately open the door after your load is done, some of that steam will condense back on to your clothes and they'll be ever so slightly damp. That's it!
How long for a load? Mine took HOURS
@@tomdemeo2708yeah they are not fast by any means.
We got the "base" model that your kids appear to have a year ago and have been happy with it. My wife and I prefer doing an average of one small load of laundry per day so it's never a big deal and feel the heat pump dryer leaves the laundry room less humid than had been our experience with prior dryers. Adding dryer balls made a big difference in how dry laundry came out, and though we often still select the "extra" dry setting it no longer feels as necessary. We also got an extra plinth filter direct from the miele site so that we can keep doing laundry while waiting for the prior one to dry if we rinsed it off vs just vacuuming it.
And that's the correct way to clean that filter. Water! It's very clearly stated in the manual.
I sure love you, Matt. Glad your face situation isn't too serious and you caught it early. Thank you for all you do to teach your brothers and sisters about good building practices. You're the man!
One of your best, Matt.
Hope the condition clears up. Stay well.
Hah! I bought the same Miele stack for my new place this past summer. LOVE it. The dryer is fantastic, and seems way gentler on the clothes even in addition to all the energy saving potential. I did adjust the setting to be a little more dry than the default, just a couple extra minutes made it feel more conventional.
Can you please tell me if I want to stack them up the hose for the dryer can it go directly down straight to the drainage or it has to be assembled in a special Way so to prevent siphoning?
I have been using a full size Whirlpool heat pump dryer for years. It's huge. I can fit a king size comforter in it. Those ones you have are tiny. You can get bigger if you want.
I just replaced my broken gas dryer with a new LG ventless heat pump dryer. It does take longer, but it works well and is very efficient. I also like that it's not venting inside air to the outside. Everything exhausting requires make-up air from outside which needs to be heated or cooled (and filtered if you have allergies), so having a ventless system means your HVAC is not working as hard. Matt, this video helped me make the decision to go ventless; thank you!
Hey Matt....we all wish you the very best. Thanks for the great info.
You can put more of a load in than that. (I am from Europe and have used the small sized front loaders for a long time). You can loosely fill them pretty full. You just can't force stuff in to overfill as you mentioned. The ones you have to watch fill on are the combined washer/dryer units that do the whole cycle in one.
Yep, you can fill it to the brim and it's fine, just don't force it.
@@Rebasepoiss Yeah that is a 9kg load, if your washing machine is spinning much of the water out of it that is a decent load. I have an LG heat pump one and can put way more in than in this video.
Same, Samsung 9kg washer here, takes a decent size basket of laundry or 6-7 towels.
No...
My biggest issue with ours is the spin speed. There are very few settings that allow max spin speed. I now wash everything on the towel setting because it takes less time and will spin at max. The dryer doesn’t dry as well as a gas dryer but it’s no big deal to add time. Thanks for all the data.
Matt thanks for telling people about skin care in your younger years. I am 76 and have had 4 procedures to remove skin cancer. Two times from my left ear, one time from my nose and one on my left neck. In my job I did a lot of driving.
Everyone 50+ on BOTH sides of my family has either died from skin cancer, or had skin cancer removed at least once. When they were young proper care wasn't really known, but it's so easy to take care of yourself now. So many people don't bother though. There really needs to be better public education about it.
Excellent video. Excellent content! I say you make these “cutting edge” home products a new part of your build-show! You would have an endless supply of video content constantly heading your way. Who doesn’t love new home tech?!
These are definitely interesting, and something my partner and I are going to look into when we go to build our place. If we're planning on spending upwards of 650k for a home, we may as well build (albeit maybe a slightly smaller home than we'd like) and get essentially everything we want; Especially things that will save us in the long run. I.E, thanks to your videos I've decided we need to build a home to Passive standards. The benefits of greatly reduced heating and cooling costs with no or minimal fuel and high insulation values, greatly reduced energy consumption (ideally supplemented with or primarily solar) over a lifetime of ownership and the other benefits... it just makes sense. While we're at it, invest in materials that are going to last. No asphalt shingles, no vinyl siding, systems with servicable/replacable components instead of systems that will need fully replaced
Good for getting yourself checked out and taken care of. I have a friend who was a police officer, after years of exposure he found out he had skin cancer on his face a few years ago and has been battling it ever since. It's not something anyone should play around with.
I must of missed an episode, way no vinyl siding?
@@bobmcnulty3500 vinyl siding is terrible. Go watch Matt Risinger’s video on different types of siding’s fire resistance.
I hope you feel better. God bless
Awesome content! I was just debating putting these in my next unit and the info that you produce is so amazing, thank you!!
Fantastic video! You have a history of having the answers for my build remodel or repair questions. This video and moved me to a new technology that I wasn’t aware people made yet as well as answer the question I haven’t even formed yet in my head. We have a furnace I have recently pushed the dryer exhaust through a shirt that I have some clothes into the house. I put a fan on it to push that humidity around inside the house and get it out of the laundry room. I had also started using a dehumidifier in the laundry room to help my wife’s hang-up clothes dry. I’m going to do some measuring today and see what it would take to put two stacked sets of these in our laundry room. Having two sets may help my wife since we have dance clothes, school uniforms, regular clothes, night clothes and jujitsu gees that I’ll have to be washed separately.
Just the info I needed! I've been looking at what would have been a long vent run based on where I planned the laundry to be and wondered if a ventless would be the way to go. Now I know the answer is yes! Thanks Matt.
Thanks for this review. I used one of these in a vacation home I rented for a few weeks last year and my experience left me with a negative impression on this technology.
Here's what I discovered after using it several times:
It took 2-3 times longer to dry as a vented dryer;
It increased the humidity levels in the home;
Laundry day almost became an all-day affair waiting on the dryer to finish.
Your videos have definitely inspired my pursuit of making our home more energy efficient and thermally tight. We moved into our new build track home last April, and while the house is nice the thermodynamics of the home are rather underwhelming. Just finished insulating my garage walls with rockwool comforter batt and that alone was a substantial improvement. Looking forward to more progress, thank you.
Congrats on completing your treatment, take care of your health.
We bought speed queen for our family of six. 32 minute wash, 50 minute dry, large loads.
Congratulations on 1 million subs!
A word of caution for anyone purchasing a heat pump dryer. *DO NOT* use dryer sheets. The film that comes off those is so fine it will clog and eventually ruin the lint trap and plinth filter. Additionally, if you use fabric softener you will need to clean the entire interior of the dryer weekly. The softener coats the internal components and will cause the dryer to not be able to read the dryness of the clothing.
Neither fabric softener or dryer sheets are a necessary additive, and if you must, miele’s dryer have scents that infuse into your clothing.
this guy is so right.... and the GE Profile I bought a few months ago is where its at... its an all in one washer and dryer... so you put your clothes in and come back 2-4 hours later depending on size of load and settings and you have clean and dry clothes! no need to flip! love it
Definitely saving this video for the future replacement of my current units. So tired of that crinkled tube behind the dryer and all that wasted space and energy efficiency. Thanks!
Matt, looks like you just got back from a ski vacation or deep sea fishing. Hope that sun/wind burn heals quickly and that you had a lot of fun!
He explains around 16:00. Too much sun exposure overtime. SPF
Never mind, I just got the end of the video. You have show me my future. I have a lot of sun damage from being a lifeguard in high school, and a career in the military. Guess it is time for me to follow your example and get into the dermatologist. Thanks for being open and honest about your sun damage.
Matt talked about it in an Instagram post.
Our new Samsung dryer has a vent, and we have to program for extra dry for normal, cotton loads. I suspect this is a Volkswagen effect. Would be interested how the units are tested to see if the efficiency is calculated based on the normal dry time, or if they actually weigh the test clothes to check actual drying.
I hope you get well soon Matt!
Thanks, this was great. I have often wondered/worried about the amount of makeup air being pulled into the house when we run the dryer. If we're running our wood burning fireplace (which has it's own makeup air vent) and my wife turns on the dryer, I can immediately see a change in the fire behavior. The dryer really sucks down pressure inside the house. I sort of wonder why nobody has ever thought about a makeup air setup for dryers.
One thing to consider now is that newish GE All in One ventless. Got it in October and it's been amazing. Has the auto dosing feature for detergent and fabric softener if you use that. Have yet to need to run longer or multiple dry cycles. Fits a king comforter with room to spare too.
Is it still running well? Have your opinions changed on the unit at all?
@@ArroganceClause It's still running perfectly
love the idea of ventless - but with our bunch I really do need large capacity - small size might be great for 1 person households 🙂don't all dryers have a vent that requires routine cleaning - new high efficiency dryers don't over heat the towels either so no sure this was comparing apples to apples for operating cost - - our home is not new construction but was completely gutted and renovated w/ spray foam insulation and rebuilt to 2011 building code - the monthly report from xcel energy consistently shows us in the low use range when compared to others in the neighborhood even here in Minnesota and with a new addition .But I can still appreciate the flexibility of where to locate a ventless model in a residence . Cheers 🙂
Old unit died, went for a GE ventless heat pump W/D. Absolute game changer. Literally “throw clothes in, push button, walk away.” For those saying it takes a long time, by the time I would get back to move the laundry over to thee dryer, it’s done both.
And no more mildewed washer or clothes since it never sits dry. If I’m doing line-dry items, I always throw in a drum-dried load after. Boom, dry drum, no stink.
Our building has a funky and troublesome common dryer vent system, so when we needed a new washer / dryer pair, we got the Blomberg with a ventless dryer. Coupled with the Blomberg high speed (1600 rpm) washer drum spin down, makes the whole thing easy, had it 5 years and we love it.
Astaxanthin - antioxidant that helps with sun damage to skin. I used to get moles from sun exposure and it seems to prevent and even reverse it to some extent. Not recommending a brand, but a big believer. Life changing.
In my area (coastal California), we often put dryers in unconditioned space. I still like the lower energy usage and you explanation of how they work is the first that's made sense to me. Thank you!
What a dream come true to have such a beautiful well designed home!
I'm just impressed that you appear to have taught your children to make their beds!
The two biggest complaints that I've heard about the heat-pump style dryers are increased drying time and not getting the clothes as dry as a standard electric or gas dryer. But if you can change the default settings to either "extra" or "super" dry that would take care of that problem. For the first, just start it when you go to bed at night or if you're headed out to do some shopping. I have seen some larger ventless dryers than the one you have.
I have the opposite problem. My European heat-pump dryer dries super well and my American Standard electric whirlpool is awful really. Even on the most dry setting towels are always wet. My wife hates that.
We had the bosch condensing dryer, it worked but it takes far far longer and is a far smaller tub than your typical dryer. It won't fit a queen set like our LG
2 things;
GAS dryers 🤯, isn't that a modified furnace?
And who's that stressed about how quick the laundry dries, just go and do something more interesting and come back later? If you need one item dried asap, use a hairdryer or iron 🤷
@@james.telfer Maybe I don't want to do laundry every day. My 30 year old Sears Kenmore washer does a load large load in about 25 to 30 minutes. The gas dryer mid-range permanent press setting takes about 45 minutes, depending the material and how wet it is. So, I can easily do 3 loads in 3 hours including folding, hanging, and putting away. And, the machines are big enough that I can one and a half to two weeks worth of whatever I'm washing in each load. He has two and a half hours invested in doing less than half the laundry I can get done in one load.
@@BryanTorok ok, but the amount of time you're actually handling the laundry will be the same, because you have to pick and fold each item, you just have less batches with a bigger machine 🤔🤷
I don't dedicate time to doing laundry, I let the machine do the work and come back when convenient to me so no advantage to have it finish quicker. If you specifically spend time doing laundry, then it might make sense to you.
Really good explainer, Matt. I was hoping you would do one on the dryer as I've been on the fence. That cost is a little tough to swallow for initial purchase, but they are nice units. And good for you on getting ahead of melanoma!
Interesting stats about the efficiency and never even thought about the air replaced bit.....informative as always
I have to give to Matt on this video. I got turned off from his channel a little while ago because I got fed up with so many videos being infomercials. This one didn't feel so slimy. Keep doing more like this and eliminate those slimy infomercials.
How about a standard dryer, but with in INTAKE vent as well as an EXHAUST vent?
Perhaps you could seasonally divert the intake vent to interior air? There must be a good reason this hasn't been pursued.
A conventional dryer just gets its intake air from the room. If the laundry area is a separate room with a door that can be closed, you could have a vent in the laundry room to provide make-up air, and just not fully condition that space while using the dryer. Optionally that make-up air could come in through the ERV/HRV, although the ERV/HRV wouldn’t do much, since it’s getting little or no interior air to exhaust. Letting the laundry room get cold or humid would make the dryer work a bit harder. If the room was cold, the dryer’s thermostat would have it applying more heat to get up to temperature. So savings are limited. If sticking with a conventional electric dryer, probably the simplest/easiest way to save some energy in a northern climate is to add an air valve on the vent duct, to vent it inside during the winter.
The best video out here from you!
Gearing up to build a passive house next year. Looking forward to getting the Miele. I have the Miele induction range and love it.
European here who allways dries his clothes on a rack, even thoufh I have a dryer. It's just nice to moisturise your air in the winter and in the summer you just put the rack outside and they will dry in an couple hours. Of course I only do laundry for one person so 1 rack would probably not be enough for a family but still. Dryers are just one of those things I think most people don't need.
It's not the American way. Why do something free and silent when someone could sell you a fancy machine to do it slightly easier?
American here, we have a dryer and dry maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of our laundry in the dryer, the rest on a drying rack or hanging in the shower area. That said, depending on where you live, the air can be humid enough that drying towels or similar pretty much requires a dryer if you don’t have access to a sunny clothesline. Otherwise you will be dealing with musty, mildewed fabric.
Would you believe that in many areas, drying your laundry outside is against local regulations? Especially if it can be seen by neighbors, etc. 🤪
That's actually not a bad increase in time for towels, sometimes you can add almost an hour for towels if your washer isn't set for them and isn't spinning out enough water from them in the final spin/drain cycles.
Good rule of thumb is you should never feel anything coming out of the washer as extremely heavier than when it went in, it should be damp weighted at most.
They have sensors inside and adjust the time dynamically. The initial time is more like an educated guess...
Great video! Thanks for sharing Matt! And about your face too! Keep doing an awesome job!
Matt,
Appreciate the honest appraisal. Regarding air quality, can you comment whether you've noticed any dust accumulation on horizontal surfaces in the laundry room or near there?
Some of that depends of the construction. If a fan blows hot air in, the dusty internals are pressurized, so air and dust can leak from anywhere. If instead, the internal air is blown out through a dedicated section with adequate filtering, the internals are at negative pressure, and the air quality can be ok.
As soon as there is a bigger size available, we plan on making this change. We're down to ~1.5-3 MWh a year of net consumption. I think our vented dryer makes up over 1MWh a year of consumption we could cut.
Another benefit, that could apply to some people, some of these heatpump dryers use standard outlets instead of 30 amp. When we switch, that will open up a dedicated 30 amp breaker in our utility room. We hope to switch to heatpump water heater too, so that would help a lot.
I recall Whirlpool having the large 27" variants that are ventless/heatpump 7.4cuft dryers. I went with a smaller 24" set because the ELP PanStand (that holds up to 6gal of emergency leakage and I got the option with sump pump) only comes in 1 size that supports 24" laundry appliances.
But yes, it's astounding that these heatpump dryers draw a peak of 10A out of the wall, now NEC just needs to update its code to allow for dryer circuits to be fed by smaller (cheaper) wires.
9:23 We need to consider the small size of the load as well, when doing the efficiency comparison. That load looks like about half or less of what a regular dryer can handle.
I suppose if we were going to be strict about it we'd normally it to the weight of the load. But for now I'd say you probably want to cut that 4.6x number in half to account for the load size. So it might be 2 to 3 times as efficient (not counting the replacement air issue you're going to talk about next).
That drier will handle a lot more though, I believe that model/size (T1 I think?) is sold as 9kg in here Europe. 9kg is a lot more towel than that. Same goes for the washer. And at least here the energy kabel standards don’t actually assume 100% load at all times.
Then again our Euro versions of these take way way longer to do a load too so, not sure if they are even the same or comparable. (Like 2 or 3 hours)
The efficiency numbers were based on a year's worth of laundry for an average family. The difference in the number of loads needed to dry that volume of clothes is already factored in.
Matt, I like the video and this style of video being a little smaller and more about your personal experience. Thanks!
I've always wanted to see manufacturers build drying functionality into their washers. Both are rotating drums with a fluid moving through them. I'd still buy two just to do two loads at once. Also would be nice to remove any stagnant water than collect in a front load washer.
Good front loaders have a magnet in the door that holds it open an inch or two when not all the way latched shut, this helps dry all that stagnant water between loads.
I live in Michigan and through my electric company(which is co-op) they gave a $400 rebate on these. So I started doing some research and also saw not many people in the US had these. As I have a Samsung washer and other appliances that is what I went for. I ended up getting the 3.5cuft air pump dryer for $900 with a $400 rebate for my electric company. Yes, only $500 for this dryer!! I also found out you can fit and mostly dry a king size comforter! I have had this unit only a few months, but really enjoy this newer style dryer, and being able to see(in samsung smart things app) how much I am really saving.
I've had one now for 3 years and love it for all the reasons you enumerated and with the caveat that being single living alone size is actually perfect but for a family it might be a little tight. My only negative is the dryer is a little loud with the heat pump hum/buzz.
Thanks for the PSA on skin cancer issue. I recognized those red blotches right away as I've gone through that ordeal 2 or 3 times. That stuff will make you miserable for weeks but it's pretty effective and much better than excisions and stitches. Don't miss those dermo appointments - they can save your life.
What's the treatment called? I'm going to ask my Dermatologist about it ...unfortunately, they seem more interested in selling cosmetic procedures than problem-focused treatment
I've experienced actinic keratitis on my ears and scalp a couple of times now. The medical treatment offered has been cryotherapy (liquid nitrogen poured on your skin - not fun) but I've had equally good results from a comfrey salve. Takes a bit longer and can be messy, but no pain or redness
@@NightSky777 I went through this last year and it was an overwhelmingly miserable experience. Matt's treatment/reaction looks "typical". My entire face and ears reacted to the treatment (which is actually a good thing), but it's painful. Fluorouracil is the treatment cream I was prescribed. I would recommend doing smaller areas over a longer period of time to prevent potentially being overwhelmed if all skin reacts. Again, don't forget your ears - we often forget to protect our ears.
@@NightSky777 Efudex is the drug name. It ain't fun. Matt R seems to be having a fairly mild reaction but others can suffer greatly the whole time.
@@infiniteyep5224 Thank you! Greatly appreciated! I knew 2 Army Colonels who had that done. Right, wasn't pretty, but their skin was great afterwards. ...I even asked my Dermatologist about it for me, but she just shrugged it off. I'm going to press her again about it.
I use a heat pump dryer and is is fantastic. We run it during the day when the solar panels are producing free energy. It costs nothing to run in this scenario
We’ve had ventless driers in our various homes in Canada for years and we love them! Minor adjustment to expecting clothes to be bone dry and hot when coming out of the drier, but a huge savings in electricity!
Heat pumps are the future, if they make a large enough dryer when mine crap out I would love one.
I've been using Miele laundry appliances for more than 20 years. Currently, the Miele washer (model W1918) and dryer (model T1515) in my primary home are 22 years old, and still perform flawlessly. Miele builds appliances to last! Both appliances require a 240V 15amp connection. The dryer is a vented model, an option that Miele no longer offers in N. America. Recently (2022), I purchased a new Miele laundry pair for a second home. The new appliances (both washer & dryer) run on 120V 15amp connections and will handle larger loads than my older machines. I've found the heat pump dryer is faster at drying than my older vented dryer, and the cost of operating the dryer is noticeably less than the dryer (a vented model) that it replaced. The build quality on the new machines is still solid, but perhaps not quite as robust as the older Miele laundry pair -- which were built like tanks!
Did you need a 15A breaker for the washer and another 15A breaker for the dryer? I called Miele "support" and they could not tell me. The installation manuals do not say, either.
@@no-page
22 years means jack all compared to any modern appliances. Same thing could be said of Maytag, Whirlpool, etc. Now? Not so much. Miele could still be that good. IDK. We went SpeedQueen because it seemed like one of the few decent ones.
I just picked up the GE all in one, I love it and it’s a large drum. Freed up a a lot of floor space in the laundry room for more storage.
This video made me think about adding a fresh air vent to the laundry room so I dont mess the air on the whole house. Let it suck outside air through a one way damper probably just to the laundry room.
1:16h is actually really short in my opinion. My (German) Miele washer usually takes about 3h to wash cottons at 40°. It's not like I have anything better to do and I usually use the programming feature so my clothes are ready to be hung up when I wake up or get home from work or something along those lines, so I really enjoy the energy saving longer wash cycles.
my POSs samsung takes 45mins. why so long
@@randomrazr it’s basically a trade between runtime and energy/water efficiency. The longer it runs, the less water and less temperature aka energy it needs for the same results. If I set my machine to 60°C, the actual temperature it runs at will be much lower, but the results will be the same as a „traditional“ washer running at 60°C.
@@inerdt so the machines that take longer to run, actually save more electricity (cheaper bills) then the machines that doa. quicker job?
@@randomrazr Yes, at least here in Europe. Our appliances are plumbed into the cold water tap and have to heat the water to the desired temperature by themselves, so most of their energy usage comes from that. The motor spinning the drum is much less energy intensive.
@@inerdt interesting..... u have natural gas to heat water?
13:05 What Matt says here ("they're not as hot") was what I noticed when I first used them (literally the same units!) in the apt I currently rent. Finished the inaugural load (ever, for both machines), grabbed them, and said "huh, did I do something wrong?" I've learned anything sans-towels, I do the "Normal" dry, take slightly-warm-to-touch clothing item then 'whip' it. It'll be room temp, and then I put it away
I just moved into my Risinger inspired build, managed 0.15ACH50 up in Northern Canada. We have a 7.4 Cuft Whirlpool ventless dryer and it works pretty well so far, also a year in.
I didn't even know this existed! Wow thanks for the info!
Another thing to consider in the energy efficiency numbers is that I'd suspect that the traditional model you used to compare this unit against was probably a good bit bigger. If one really wanted to stick with the traditional style dryer, I wonder if you could plumb another pipe to the outside to supply the bulk of the air that it draws in. I'm assuming that the units draw from the bottom here, so you could plumb it to a drip pan underneath the unit. If you are able to have an actual laundry room or even a closet, you wouldn't even need to do the pan. You'd still have the same issues with bringing in hot or cold outside air but only when it's running & the majority would be sucked right out. It might even be feasible to add a butterfly valve to the line to minimize any air loss while not in use.
I always thought butterfly valves were more common, my dryer is in my garage and has one on the exhaust port.
"better"
@@GoatZilla thanks for the heads up, corrected now.
@@Vagitarian01 given that the majority of the hoses I see from the production builders, I've never heard of anyone having one. I'm glad to hear that there are at least some people doing this. Validates my idea a little.
How do you save money with upfront x 4, plus 1/3 load size, no way. Plus it lasts 8-10 yrs.
When I shopped for my heat pump dryer the only one that made a "large" size unit in the US was Whirlpool. This was a year ago. I've been pretty happy with it. We do laundry in large batches and size wise it keeps up. I leave it "Eco" mode which locks out the electric elements since it is actually a hybrid so the cycle time is a longer but it doesn't really matter because I'm not hovering over it.
That’s good to know there’s hybrid models, I was concerned that the heating element was totally missing which might be a problem if the laundry room is as cold as ours is.
@@SchwaAlien It doesn’t really matter. Heat pumps don’t really care. These things rely mostly on dehumidification, not heating, to dry the clothes. But as it is, they heat up anyway, just gently, because the heat pump’s own energy consumption mostly ends up in the clothes.
I will definitely look into these when I replace our units. Thanks Matt! Definitely wear sunscreen on face, ears, and neck. My dad had his ear removed…yikes
Look up the Whirlpool YWHD560CHW1 model dryer. Its almost 8 cu/ft, but does an amazing job at drying my clothes. We do full comforters, etc without issues.
Hi, about how long does a load of bedding or towels take to dry?
What wasn’t mentioned is these condensate dryer’s longevity. Either Miele or Bosch far outlive their standard washer/dryer counterparts. More important still is having service technicians who can make service calls, if needed. That means assuring yourself that whatever you buy, you have maintenance needs covered. BTW, these units, like most nowadays, have their own apps, which allows remote programming.
Over 30 yrs of home ownership, I’ve found appliance longevity is a function of core basic functionality vs tech bells and whistles technology that break… cost of use isn’t material, IMHO, vs purchase price
What is the estimated lifespan of these dryers?
They heat your home as the trade off. Not good for Florida.
I have an Expensive brand heat pump dryer, it is amazing apart from the fact that every 3 years I get a new dryer from The supplier because the heat exchanger clogs up and they are unable to clean them. They have to send out a new unit and the warranty starts again. As long as there is a great warranty you should be good. I am on my third dryer.
Condensate and heat pump dryer are not the same thing. A heat pump dryer has a compressor and far more parts that can fail.
I am so glad you didn't get burned etc.
I think you should do a full video on your skin treatment - diagnosis, treatment, follow-up, etc. If you have that amount of pre-cancerous skin cells on your face you probably have as much, if not more, on your hands, forearms and legs - basically whatever was expose to the sun while you were working at construction sites.
We tried a Samsung heat pump dryer, and it did not work for us. It got smelly over time and was too small for our loads. We will probably try a bigger unit like yours in the future, but for now, we're sticking to our traditional American dryer. Thanks for sharing your experience.
You know you have to clean them, right?
Capacity is a big issue for me. It needs to be able to fit a king-size winter comforter.
I live in an apartment... downstairs neighbors poisonous dryer sheets vented into our unit.. got the GE all in one and plugged the air vent up completely. Life changing!
as a cancer survivor - good move! make sure to monitor that, it can sneak up on you. I was stage IVe NHL when diagnosed.
I’ve had a whirlpool ventless dryer for seven years now. it’s much larger than the one that you’re showing and gets clothes dry in about 45 minutes. I think it was around $1500 back then, probably more now.
I had the Whirlpool dryer in my prior home, I think it was 7.4 cu ft, which was overkill from my family of 3. It did require a condensate drain, it didn't have any catch basin. But not a problem sitting next to the washer. The downside, I feel, was the way it filtered lint. There was a primary screen in the drum and a secondary screen+filter on the bottom air intake which had to be vacuumed every 3-5 loads. Unfortunately, the fins on the heat exchanger ended up acting as the third lint filter. When I called Whirlpool about cleaning that they insisted it was not customer-serviceable, so I had to pay an appliance repair tech to come vacuum it out. Whirlpool said in the owner's manual that that service should be performed annually, I think, but I waited until year 3. I could see the fins from the secondary filter box and they looked OK until then. The tech said my unit looked OK and could've gone longer.
I noticed lint building up on the heat exchanger fins also. I did cut away that screen behind the filter so I can get a vacuum in to the fins. I have a service tech coming next week to see if he can clean it better. I’ll let you know how it goes.
@@davewarkentien7600 How did it go?
Sorry for delay. Technician removed a significant amount of lint. service charge was around $150. dryer still working fine after eight years.
You didn't mention the extreme itch AK brings to the table! Ex farmer and a road warrior who developed it just before I turned 45. Brutal experience and now know that long sleeve shirts, hats and sunscreen help keep you safe. Waking up in the morning having scratched yourself bloody in the night is not fun. Might get some weird looks on the golf course, but beats the alternative. Be well and stay safe.
For those who missed the end of the video, this commenter's "AK" is referring to "actinic keratosis", not "Alaska". 😀
Yes, since this is pretty serious, I hope Matt will go back to the doctor when he shaves that beard, so he can get the rest of his face checked out. Skin cancer is nothing to mess around with. I knew a builder who was doing his own roofing in July in the South. I couldn't believe he would do that himself because he had red-blonde hair. At least he wore one of those wide brimmed hats with a neck shield down the back.
@@Crusader1815 I think Matt's wife is a doctor.
Great video, earned an instant subscribe. I have a ventless LG and got it more because it runs on 120 volt, single circuit so I don't need loose a circuit just to a dryer almost never running. The LG I uses cold water rather than a heat pump (which is a maint. issue) to dehumidify the dryer air. The LG is also A SINGLE COMBINED WASHER DRYER, making it the SMALLEST W/D solution in the world. There is a small lint trap to clean every month or so, lint also, by design, sticks to a specially formed front door, and in gasket pocket around it, easily wiped off every use.
Luckily, my well water is about 45, so it's ideal for this, if not for taking showers. Might as well get some benefit from cold water and this is it. The clothes are really too hot to pull out and carry, got to be careful with that. You do need to hang the hot clothes out for 10 or 15 mins. By the time they cool they are perfectly dry. I can program longer dry time, but, what's the big deal, and here's where small size is a blessing, a couple of lines in the little laundry room and it all fits. As you say the negative is lots of loads, really, almost daily. But very little work to each load. My wife loves it. No moving clothes from washer to dryer, sm, med, large, delicate, towel, a million modes that can cut time down to nothing or turn dirty throw 'rugs' into clean like new.
FYI these sell better in EU as there are MANY MANY small old dwellings / conversions where space is cramped, ad hoc, tiny alcoves, etc. and there is more an expectation that housework so to speak is a daily chore, that alas still falls mostly to women. Though, mod cons are making faster and faster inroads as populations age out.
Very interesting video. Great public service announcement about skin cancer. Glad you caught it and wishing you great health in the future.
One thing you should add to your cost calculation is total cost of doing several small loads to cost if fewer larger loads. It may be that the MEILE is not actually as cheep to run as you suggest.