@@PenguinTac0s that’s gotta be the most stupid and outrageous comparison I have ever heard. Meat consumption is for our survival and a natural way of life. Killing a 10 year old boy and his father and then acting like it didn’t happen is not anywhere near a comparison. What a tough life you must live with a brain like that.
Yeah and then a couple years later that Reggie Dobbins kid did it again and we got to relive it all over. Oh and there was that Lord dude somewhere in there. The County, am I right?
His mugshots look almost animated or something. All I can say is Thank God he was caught because this psychopathic serial killer was just reving up his motor, he's nothing But A Killing Machine. Pray for the lost, the families & the entire wounded community 😔🙏 ❤️🩹
Bob's daughter had a teenage daughter with Jeff Ryan there is more to this than we really know how does anyone know that Bob hadn't been bad mouthing Jeff Ryan for years to Thane.
From what I've been able to find, there could be a bit more to this than covered here. Some of us were wondering, why would old Bob Strout go to such measures to help Thayne coverup these brutal murders. It is said that the intended victim 55 yr. old Jeff Ryan had a relationship with Bob & Joy's daughter Tamara, and she had a kid by him. Also it is alledged that Bob told Thayne that Jeff was a drug dealer. Good ol' Bob was a AF Veteran. Is it possible that Bob filled Thayne's little head with his hatred of Jeff? I think so. Did Bob put Thayne up to killing Jeff? Thayne said he went there to kill Jeff. Killed the others because they were there. He also said he was treating it like a "hit". When it was done he went to Bob, covered in blood, and Bob helped him destroy evidence. I don't think this information should absolve Thayne of his horrific crimes, but it helps make sense of his confession, and Bob's helping him get out of town, and destroying evidence.
@@cogitoergospud1 - What I mentioned was not showing any intent to absolve Thayne of his horrific crime. It was just trying to come to a better understanding of the circumstances, and possible motivation.
How awful and senseless. He "wanted to be a soldier" this is not what it would take to be a GOOD soldier. I don't understand what goes wrong in the brain of some people, this seemingly came out of the blue.
Based on this video I have subscribed. The editing is top notch and you present the facts without sensationalism. Well done. This story left me feeling unbalanced.
Big old dumbass Bob giving up ten years of his life to help Thayne get away. What if he killed again, Bob before the cops caught up to him? Didn't care, huh?
I remember when this happened my Buddy and I where out drinking and driving in the woods. We ended up getting lost and when we went to turn around it was in Bobs dooryard. You want to talk about a feeling, you could feel the cloud over that place. Evil is as evil does.
@darkfafnir4389 Bollocks. Like any organisation of a large number of people the military has its share of murderers, rapists, psychopaths, child molesters etc.
He said he wanted to be a soldier? 😢 horrible horrible Monster..humans are the most scariest living in this planet..Take care of yourselves everyone..Do not trust no one..R.I.P
This is the second confession I've watched here where the young man said he did it to "test his resolve". The two said virtually the same words.....is there a video game or something that teaches this? It's strange that they used the very same language.
It's the language of sociopaths. He feels no remorse. I'm not sure he's capable of feeling anything. Folks like him go through life pretending they have emotions. He was only crying because he felt sorry for himself, not the victims.
@@Exxtol1yes and no. He is a psychopath not a sociopath. Sociopaths do have feelings. He was just pretending to cry. He didn’t even feel sorry for himself. Psychopaths don’t have feelings at all. 😢
Notice that he said ''this is going to be the strangest statement you ever take'' or something to that effect. This psochiopath douchebag was 100 percent looking for attention and loved confessing to his crime.
Demons. They are persons with personalities all their own. Just without bodies of flesh. So they seek a body and destroy the soul. You can recognize them in people, especially these crime videos where you hear what they said and did and the way they did it. These wicked people share the same spirits. And they only leave in Jesus name. Even our own government officials and presidents have repeated word for word, on the exact same dates, what the wicked ones before them said. They are spirits speaking through them. Fulfilling prophecy. Nothing new under the sun. Look around and see and hear for yourself. Wickedness abounds. The Bible will be banned. Illegal. And they'll imprison and kill the Christians for simply believing what Jesus said. It's right around the corner now.
@@hessiangardner9134the irony of talking about not being able to put together a proper sentence… all the while the sentence you put together sounds like you have a below average iq
@@hessiangardner9134 Wow. Did you seriously accuse someone else of being incapable of putting a sentence together, with such a ridiculously constructed sentence? Oh the irony!
@@someguy4131 you'd be surprised to learn the truth that He actually is helping and will soon end all of this misery here on earth. Ever heard of Armageddon? And a thousand years for us is only a day in the eyes of God. So it really hasn't even been all that long 🤷♀️.
Nah, the sad truth is people like him get out into pc/protective custody along with the rest of the child killers/child mol_sters. Same pc that law enforcement is in as well.
@@Stophocles That changes nothing. Psychopaths have feelings, just not about others. Someone who is only a narcissist almost never kills. Most influencers, musicians and celebrities are narcissistic. Narcissists can, and do, care about others. They are just focused on themselves first. Psychopaths can have strong feelings, about themselves and their situation, or actions. They can even selectively care about others. They do not have a conventional set of morality and expected emotional responses, though.
Maine is the safest state in America but they did have a shooting this year with a few people that got shot near a school in a town took all night for police to find the killer they shot the killer dead. This world is such a mess crime has been too violent and high in every city and country since the world existed so sad.
The shooter shot himself in the head before our backyard police force found him in the woods. The shooting took place at a bowling alley in Lewiston from an unhinged mentally unstable veteran and he took the lives of 18 Mainers. I'd say that's more than a "few". The only thing you said right was Maine is considered the safest state and even that is debatable now.
Wow, to see Thayne spelled like that is unusual for a male, it's normally Thane. It means the Laird/lord or lady of the castle. Thayne is my mom's name, my middle name and my daughters third names.
The men and women that are in this profession I couldn't do a job like this what these police officers do seeing a child that's been murdered it must be heart breaking what would seeing something like that do to a person I've I've heard police say well detective's who deal with murdered people but I suppose it's the same for all police officers I've watched documentarys before were the police officers that deal with catching a killer is they concentrate on getting the killer give some determination but honestly I don't know how they do it I take my hat off to them though
We can be worse than animals, since animals don't actually kill for the thrill of it, or seek conflict without any reason, or hold malice for anything except when acting from instincts. We humans do all these things, and we do them with impunity and with pleasure. Or, maybe that's never the case. Maybe this is entirely a matter of insanity-- and iy seems also that only human beings can be violently insane. I know of no animals that have been observed in that state.
@jrdnwhtny1 As I just said to someone else, animals will be thrilled by capturing prey, and killer whales hunt intelligently in packs, like wolves do, and they'll celebrate their success. All because it means they eat tonight, and can continue existing. Only human beings kill for the sake of killing. Both of you that replied are ingrates.
I googled him, and other sources are stating that old Bob put into his head that Jeffrey was a drug dealer, and that was why. For the record, old Bob was wrong. According to the cops NOTHING was found to indicate that Jeffrey was a drug dealer.
Bob was harboring a fugitive and what he did to become a fugitive, that makes him guilty whether he tells the police or not. The dude showed up at his house covered in blood.
Stay up to date on all of A&E's premieres at aetv.com/schedule.
Dude is a psychopath. Life in prison is best for all parties.
I can think of another sentence. And it would not involve life. Peace out.
Life in a cemetery is cheaper.
@@ltdc426 The old dirt nap. Peace out.
How do people kill someone, especially a child, and just go back to continuing their normal living. People are disgusting
Same way people eat meat
@@PenguinTac0s that’s gotta be the most stupid and outrageous comparison I have ever heard. Meat consumption is for our survival and a natural way of life. Killing a 10 year old boy and his father and then acting like it didn’t happen is not anywhere near a comparison. What a tough life you must live with a brain like that.
@@PenguinTac0s I love meat its sooo delicious and healthy for me too:)
The psychopaths among us.
Well clearly they're not people
A crime that shook our county. That poor boy and men. Still shocking 14 years later. And for what? Literally no good reason at all.
Yeah and then a couple years later that Reggie Dobbins kid did it again and we got to relive it all over. Oh and there was that Lord dude somewhere in there. The County, am I right?
What a punk.
Imagine killing a nearly 60 year old man, and a 10 year old boy to "test your proficiency" as a wannabe soldier. What an absolute Loser.
He’s such a bad actor *only crying because he knows he’s going to prison* soulless
He'll be a new play toy!!
Oh, he's not crying about what he did. He's crying because he's going to prison.
@@Exxtol1 thats what they said.
@@nikolas5160 you're right! read that wrong haha!
Are you some kind of mind reader ?
Well, that made absolutely no sense.
I loved EWU's video on this, but this is even cooler to have the actual detective's recount their experience with the case
His mugshots look almost animated or something. All I can say is Thank God he was caught because this psychopathic serial killer was just reving up his motor, he's nothing But A Killing Machine. Pray for the lost, the families & the entire wounded community 😔🙏 ❤️🩹
What was Bobs motivation? He ahowed no emotion for the victims and helped to destroy evidence. Seems he wanted them dead also. Very strange.
Bob's daughter had a teenage daughter with Jeff Ryan there is more to this than we really know how does anyone know that Bob hadn't been bad mouthing Jeff Ryan for years to Thane.
A Ten year old child ? This guy needs to be no longer above ground !!!!
Oooh, 1 I like how you think.Are you thinking of like an underground damp prison question mark
@@alysononoahu8702 No I am thinking of something a bit smaller and made out of wood...
People always mention kids as if the adults don't matter too. Smdh.
@@MassaiPrimer Of course they matter. It's just especially heinous to end the life of a child.
@@MassaiPrimer You have no children?
He's an attractive young man. He's going to make 'friends' in prison, maybe not the kind he wants. But, oh well...
He's gonna be touching his toes alot and on bended knees too😄
@@lolarodriquez231was that your experience in jail ??
He’s going to have to watch his back in prison. He killed a child. Jailhouse justice usually takes care of these A-🕳️s.
@@deanna420No it doesn't. That TV show version of prison is usually not representative.
@@ngc-fo5teyea it is. Unless he goes to pc, hes gettin cut in general pop
When ever ur thinking about having a bad day, there’s always something far worse you could be in
Thayne wanted to test himself and leave no evidence? Well he failed that spectacularly 😂
He’s a despicable narcissist, besides watching too many graphic fictions.
What a loser.
I knew him. He never gave me explicitly bad vibes but he creeped me out on more than one occasion.
can you explain more? how did he creep you out?
@@AndyPat239 He was a close talker. Loomed. Seemed out of touch with reality to a degree.
I can spot a creep from a mile away. They exude a wavelength of darkness. It’s like some of us can spot the false charm of psychopaths.
@@eucliduschaumeau8813 I know what you mean.
@@eucliduschaumeau8813Maybe you should get a job as a detective. You could save them a lot of time and money with your skills .
From what I've been able to find, there could be a bit more to this than covered here.
Some of us were wondering, why would old Bob Strout go to such measures to help Thayne coverup these brutal murders. It is said that the intended victim 55 yr. old Jeff Ryan had a relationship with Bob & Joy's daughter Tamara, and she had a kid by him. Also it is alledged that Bob told Thayne that Jeff was a drug dealer. Good ol' Bob was a AF Veteran. Is it possible that Bob filled Thayne's little head with his hatred of Jeff? I think so. Did Bob put Thayne up to killing Jeff?
Thayne said he went there to kill Jeff. Killed the others because they were there. He also said he was treating it like a "hit". When it was done he went to Bob, covered in blood, and Bob helped him destroy evidence.
I don't think this information should absolve Thayne of his horrific crimes, but it helps make sense of his confession, and Bob's helping him get out of town, and destroying evidence.
Absolve Thayne? Are you joking or just delusional?
@@cogitoergospud1 - What I mentioned was not showing any intent to absolve Thayne of his horrific crime. It was just trying to come to a better understanding of the circumstances, and possible motivation.
What is wrong with thede people😢😢😢😢😢😢
Sociopath. He doesn't feel empathy or emotions like we do. He's where he belongs.
He's a monster true to the end
How awful and senseless. He "wanted to be a soldier" this is not what it would take to be a GOOD soldier. I don't understand what goes wrong in the brain of some people, this seemingly came out of the blue.
Based on this video I have subscribed. The editing is top notch and you present the facts without sensationalism. Well done. This story left me feeling unbalanced.
So evil
I bet all his buddies are saying "he would never do this, he's such a great guy"
Right? I always said to my kids stay away from the clean cut polite quiet types. They’re hiding things.😂
@@stanbyme7874
Really? So all their friends are murderers, rapists, and addicts?? Good job, dad.
probably didn't have many friends
@@stanbyme7874 Eddie Haskell ?
Heartbreaking 😢
Big old dumbass Bob giving up ten years of his life to help Thayne get away. What if he killed again, Bob before the cops caught up to him? Didn't care, huh?
I remember when this happened my Buddy and I where out drinking and driving in the woods. We ended up getting lost and when we went to turn around it was in Bobs dooryard. You want to talk about a feeling, you could feel the cloud over that place. Evil is as evil does.
I'll bet Bob's got more of his relationship with Thayne to hide than just that one day
You want to be a soldier but not go to the military?!
Soldiers fight to save lives...not kill in cold blood
@darkfafnir4389 Bollocks. Like any organisation of a large number of people the military has its share of murderers, rapists, psychopaths, child molesters etc.
Because he’s a coward. He can only kill the ones that can’t fight back..
He thought he was a soldier, but he was just a coward. A serial killer in training. He only fights unarmed innocent children and civilians.
I certainly wouldn't have shaken the mans hand.
He won’t last in prison
He has tho. Crimes in 2010, sentenced in 2012...still breathing, and putting in appeals.
Probably in protective custody.
Of course he will. Very small chance he doesn't.
This is in Maine not New Mexico, he’ll last.
I hope you’re right.
So sad😢
I’d like to see an interview of Thane now, with his 3 life sentences & see how he feels about passing his test.
What a sick sick person. Good detective work guys🙌🏾
I was right down the road when this happened was a crazy tense few days ago
Thayne Ornsby is still alive and kicking and is trying to have his conviction overturned. Go figure.
He said he wanted to be a soldier? 😢 horrible horrible Monster..humans are the most scariest living in this planet..Take care of yourselves everyone..Do not trust no one..R.I.P
~ rest in paradise ~ 😔 🕯
This person is a monster. There is no real emotion.
This is the second confession I've watched here where the young man said he did it to "test his resolve". The two said virtually the same words.....is there a video game or something that teaches this? It's strange that they used the very same language.
It's the language of sociopaths. He feels no remorse. I'm not sure he's capable of feeling anything. Folks like him go through life pretending they have emotions. He was only crying because he felt sorry for himself, not the victims.
@@Exxtol1yes and no. He is a psychopath not a sociopath. Sociopaths do have feelings. He was just pretending to cry. He didn’t even feel sorry for himself. Psychopaths don’t have feelings at all. 😢
Notice that he said ''this is going to be the strangest statement you ever take'' or something to that effect. This psochiopath douchebag was 100 percent looking for attention and loved confessing to his crime.
He said to test "his proficiency" so you are wrong before you even started..
Jesus Get it right
Demons. They are persons with personalities all their own. Just without bodies of flesh. So they seek a body and destroy the soul. You can recognize them in people, especially these crime videos where you hear what they said and did and the way they did it. These wicked people share the same spirits. And they only leave in Jesus name. Even our own government officials and presidents have repeated word for word, on the exact same dates, what the wicked ones before them said. They are spirits speaking through them. Fulfilling prophecy. Nothing new under the sun. Look around and see and hear for yourself. Wickedness abounds. The Bible will be banned. Illegal. And they'll imprison and kill the Christians for simply believing what Jesus said. It's right around the corner now.
A&E, This is great! I liked it and subscribed!
We love to hear it! Thank you for being a fan.
He didn't do it just to do it
There's passion involved
And where there is passion, there are secrets 🙊
You reckon he molested him?
Why the 10 yr old kid. Wow!
He said it
Witness
He is not crying just acting like he is crying
Psychopaths mimic human emotions. He didn’t shed a single tear in his little crying act. He probably practiced human emotions in the mirror every day.
@@eucliduschaumeau8813 yeah
This is a kid no one would ever suspect 😢
I don't know, we say that about everyone until they've been caught.
Oh.... my... God
A true monster, rot in prison
been done
A twisted sick monster !!
"May god have mercy on your soul." If someone seriously said something that vapid and stupid to me, they'd get some choice words. 😵💫
Good Lord. The stuff that is out there. No wonder parents worry so much.
Emptiness?
I still want to know why he did it. No motive was given.
He didn’t need a motive, he just wanted to see how proficient he could be!
He gets food and a bed and a tv and everyone just had dead family members.
Deal with it you cant put a proper sentence together he can you can't
@@hessiangardner9134the irony of talking about not being able to put together a proper sentence… all the while the sentence you put together sounds like you have a below average iq
@@hessiangardner9134From the looks of it, neither can you! His talking point was very true.
And we,and the victims’ family, pay for it.
@@hessiangardner9134
Wow. Did you seriously accuse someone else of being incapable of putting a sentence together, with such a ridiculously constructed sentence? Oh the irony!
"Tragedy" is the root of a person's existence, unfortunately! It is true that you should always see the positive in life and believe !
Man if i could get hold of this guy , i swear .....
You'd do nothing whatsoever. And why does it matter to you?
@@ngc-fo5tehow do you know he would do nothing? You can’t prove that my man
@@joeyblogsy Okay - 99.9% chance he's being a keyboard warrior.
@@ngc-fo5te correct......if I could get my hands on Megan Fox..........I'd be sent to jail most likely or her body guard would kill me......
@@RA82828 most likely it would be......
He was so matter-of-fact in describing 3 murders. Eerie.
Who called it in?
8:53 lmfao dude be looking like a high-res ps2 model
I could see him getting the father or the son outside, but the other guy how did he get the jump on him? The son I assume was sleeping.
You name your kid Thane and he’s doomed from the start.
No, it's if you name your daughter crystal..LOL
@@bobczz3919 Crystal Beth
@@bobczz3919 Even worse if named Krystyl.
I actually like that name Thayne. It's unique and different. It's just too bad he had to ruin the name by doing terrible things.
Evil is always here,but inna society where murders get attention,then there will always be people seeking attention in the wrong way
To prove himself? Well, he sure proved something.
I will never understand this world and stopped trying a long time ago. People are SICK bottom line, end of story.
Someone’s wiring wasn’t quite right from birth. Sadly you can hardly tell when you are in the presence of a sociopath
This is why aliens watch us from afar....we are a dangerous species...God help us.
People have been asking that for thousands of years..... If he hasn't helped us yet, he isn't about to start now 👀
You know that could really be true!!. They’re not risking anything to try to come live on earth bc even they know how horrible mankind can be.
We always have been, it's in our blood.
Aliens always lock their doors when they drive by earth.
@@someguy4131 you'd be surprised to learn the truth that He actually is helping and will soon end all of this misery here on earth. Ever heard of Armageddon? And a thousand years for us is only a day in the eyes of God. So it really hasn't even been all that long 🤷♀️.
Can someone tell me why this judge was so sad and solemn about this case???
Did the mugshots look AI to anyone else?
i think they "enhance" with ai. i hate it lol
Yes, absolutely, it was weirding me out 😮
That's because it's a rendering composition
His voice is soo similar to Jeff darms
Who is the guy hiding behind the tree at 3:12?
Such a waste of life. I feel for the dear boy, his father and his friend. I feel most for the families of all of them, even the parents of the killer.
Imagine if he'd gotten away with it...
he would’ve been a serial killer
"Interrogation Raw", but is nothing but jump cuts instead of showing the actual interrogation..
Context.
Yes it does look like AI
He thinks he is so intelligent! He is probably telling the other convicts in jail how smart he is. Right before they give him the Beating of his Life.
Nah, the sad truth is people like him get out into pc/protective custody along with the rest of the child killers/child mol_sters. Same pc that law enforcement is in as well.
Dělej! Úkaz se!!!!😂😂😂😂
Jen se předveď😂
Úkaz to všem, co v tobě je 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
6:30 of you want to skip to what you actually wanna see
Now Erik Foote and that hole cop mess....people are excessive.🤦♀️
Usual suspect
Yep
for killing a kid his life expectancy in jail will be a month at most unless he go's PC
This happened in June 22, 2010, he was sentenced June 7, 2012. So he has already been in prison for more than a decade.
@@Asa...S then he's in pc
He can be got in there too
@@lolarodriquez231 very true
Let's hope his fellow prisoners can dish out the justice the system cannot.
This guy is the ultimate narcissist.
He seems more like a psychopath.
@@pkz420 Except he cries.
@@Stophocles That changes nothing. Psychopaths have feelings, just not about others.
Someone who is only a narcissist almost never kills. Most influencers, musicians and celebrities are narcissistic.
Narcissists can, and do, care about others. They are just focused on themselves first.
Psychopaths can have strong feelings, about themselves and their situation, or actions. They can even selectively care about others. They do not have a conventional set of morality and expected emotional responses, though.
@@pkz420 Ok thanks... I'm a clinical social worker. I don't really need this explained to me lol
@@Stophocles It seems that you did.
You thought him expressing emotions indicated he couldn't be a psychopath.
Maine is the safest state in America but they did have a shooting this year with a few people that got shot near a school in a town took all night for police to find the killer they shot the killer dead. This world is such a mess crime has been too violent and high in every city and country since the world existed so sad.
The shooter shot himself in the head before our backyard police force found him in the woods. The shooting took place at a bowling alley in Lewiston from an unhinged mentally unstable veteran and he took the lives of 18 Mainers. I'd say that's more than a "few". The only thing you said right was Maine is considered the safest state and even that is debatable now.
This man will never see the light of day. He cannot be free . Too satanic.
Nobody else thinks he looks a lot like the Craigslist killer who committed suicide , Philip Markoff?
Wow, to see Thayne spelled like that is unusual for a male, it's normally Thane. It means the Laird/lord or lady of the castle. Thayne is my mom's name, my middle name and my daughters third names.
God..what happened to humans????
New on planet Earth? Research human history, we're living in the least violent and the least gruesome period in our history.
What's wrong with white people
Humans have had the capacity for evil since the very beginning of our existence so this is nothing new.
@@plastique45lol, this. Some people just like to be a little dramatic.
Classic example of someone not good taking it out on someone better than he is.
The men and women that are in this profession I couldn't do a job like this what these police officers do seeing a child that's been murdered it must be heart breaking what would seeing something like that do to a person I've I've heard police say well detective's who deal with murdered people but I suppose it's the same for all police officers I've watched documentarys before were the police officers that deal with catching a killer is they concentrate on getting the killer give some determination but honestly I don't know how they do it I take my hat off to them though
I believe many in this business will suffer from PTSD in some form.
But thankfully there are lots of people who like to catch the bad guys.
We can be worse than animals, since animals don't actually kill for the thrill of it, or seek conflict without any reason, or hold malice for anything except when acting from instincts.
We humans do all these things, and we do them with impunity and with pleasure.
Or, maybe that's never the case. Maybe this is entirely a matter of insanity-- and iy seems also that only human beings can be violently insane. I know of no animals that have been observed in that state.
Orcas do
Animals absolutely do all of those things lmao
@jrdnwhtny1 As I just said to someone else, animals will be thrilled by capturing prey, and killer whales hunt intelligently in packs, like wolves do, and they'll celebrate their success.
All because it means they eat tonight, and can continue existing.
Only human beings kill for the sake of killing.
Both of you that replied are ingrates.
Rabid animals go violently insane.
@@dixen9116
No, they don't do "all of those things"!
but why WHY... i dont understand
Probably, he was a serial killer.
They just caught him in his first crime.
I googled him, and other sources are stating that old Bob put into his head that Jeffrey was a drug dealer, and that was why.
For the record, old Bob was wrong. According to the cops NOTHING was found to indicate that Jeffrey was a drug dealer.
We just don’t hear of any problems from Ted Bundy any more. Hhmmm, now what could produce that kind of rehabilitation?
Play video games or go hunting dude. Wtf
Definitely looks to be on the spectrum
طفل جميل عمت عينه ليش يقتله😢
Very anticlimactic video...leaves out everything...very uninteresting
Never trust a thad,or thack whatever it was
Monsters aren’t real. There is only Thane
Wow this is old
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Poor Bob strout, that's why you dont talk to police. F them, let them do their job
Bob was harboring a fugitive and what he did to become a fugitive, that makes him guilty whether he tells the police or not. The dude showed up at his house covered in blood.
@@RA82828 exactly
Psycho crying because he got caught and feels sorry for himslf
There was no motive ....he just wanted to do it. That's every demons motive....
Nice sharing Vidio.. very inspiring and informative 🇮🇩😍💗❤️👍
*video
@@January.it's a bot
BOT!
American culture
We the 99% are not at all the same as the 1%