You care about the SAT way too much | 2023 Test Optional Update
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- čas přidán 12. 04. 2023
- The SAT has never been less important in the college admissions process. As it stands, even at top universities, about a third are getting in test optional. With few exceptions, almost every university has seen a major decrease in test scores submitted after the pandemic. And that trend looks to be permanent.
I analyzed 3 years of data to understand this new trend, and here are my findings. In short, the SAT doesn't matter that much anymore, and you should focus your efforts on other things.
The SCORE Channel is Your College Counselor. We give you advice and information to help you study abroad, regardless of where you're from or where you want to go. We show you how to handle forms, deadlines, scholarship applications and more. Subscribe to the channel to keep up with the latest, and let us know what you want to see in the comments.
All of my data was pulled from 25 different universities' common data set submissions for the last 3 years. There are several other universities I wanted to include but they haven't yet uploaded their 2022 data, so we'll just have to wait and see.
If you want to see my research sources, you can do so here:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
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www.prepwithscore.com
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Very helpful! Thank you teacher 🌹
Definitely still worth taking it once or twice just to have all the options available, and I'm sure you're going to get good results!
Awesome and informative video!
I understand that sat is not that important anymore, so can you please make videos about what else we can to do to maximize our chances of getting into the college of our dreams
That's exactly what I'm going to be focusing on in the coming months on the channel. Check out the Advice for Applicants playlist too because I've covered a lot of different topics already, but I want to go into more detail this year
Thank u very much
U actually came at the perfect time to help when there's no books or courses for the new sat
İ like the idea u talked about in the video
I definitely don't mean to suggest that you shouldn't care about the SAT at all, after all that's why I'm giving free classes and making material. But it's just one part of the bigger picture and we have to attack from all angles if we want to get into the best places possible
@@score-yourcollegecounselor so sir i already now that the sat is not the ultimate card for application but what u think about canada üniversities i told u before i was preparing with u and 1340 and i m going to try again for 1400
But please do i video about APPLİCATİON FEE WAİVER because they're my biggest promlem each üniversity ask at least *** 50$
For Canada the SAT really isn't that helpful. Most Canadian universities don't care about American tests, and some will take it and consider it but it isn't a determining factor in most cases. Regarding application fees, you can often contact your admission advisor and ask if they can waive fees for you, and in many cases they will.
Shout out to Natalia for lending me her camera 😘
Thank You Andrew!!
Can you please make a video about tips for writing a personal statement 🙏 Thank you so much ❤
I am planning on doing a fresh round of those, one for each prompt, but I've already done some from last year! I wrote one live here:
czcams.com/users/liveS-MNqUg1RBg
And made a little guide here:
czcams.com/video/HDCtPEtj3-M/video.html
great video!! What about if I want to apply for scholarships being an international student? The thing is that dont have the SAT, I do have a great GPA (4.0) and some strong extracurriculars.
Most places will consider you for scholarships without the SAT these days. There might be some scholarships that are bigger with the SAT, and some that do call for it. But in general, most merit-based automatic scholarships will be test optional if that's the university's admission policy.
I often suggest that if you need bigger scholarships, take the SAT since it can help. But that depends on how much you need and where you're applying.
I love that
can i get admitted into cal state university without sat but i have good Academic and eca.
Of course you can, they're test blind. They don't even take your SAT into consideration for admission.
Hello! I have taken 2 attempts of the SAT and in my second attempt (may) gotten a score of 1490.
I am already registered for the June SAT and have zero preparation under my belt since may sat. Should I consider cancelling the test and taking the august SAT instead? If I happened to score below my threshold set in may SAT will it be frowned upon by admissions officers? Thanks.
If you score lower, it's not going to hurt you. Honestly, I'd say just get it done with at this point because a 1490 is already a fantastic score and you can send that everywhere. Spending more time on SAT is just going to take away from other things you need to focus on. Another 50-60 points isn't going to make the difference in your application, but a really great essay might.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor Thanks! Ill go ahead with june then
Hello, I have a question.
I got 1490 on the March Digital SAT: 690 on English and 800 on Math
Because I got an 800 on Math Section, people say I should try the “super score” and go for 1500s. I don’t know if I should do that and apply for the May SAT. I still don’t have so many activities, and I don’t know how to find those. I am in the exam years right now in my country and my school pushes us too hard and doesn’t provide us with extracurricular activities. What should I do? :(
First off, 800 on math is awesome and congrats. You could take the test again and get a higher score but honestly you can send a 1490 anywhere you want. As far as activities, you can't rely on what your school provides. You can also count activities you do outside of school and even things you do at home. If your school doesn't have anything, your city probably does. And if not, go make something.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor thanks!
Is there still room for improvement for my younger daughter. She improved from her 1st practice SAT digital to the 2nd SAT practice digitial test given by Bluebook but still barely touching 1200. Is 200 points possible from now to June or August. Planning to sign up for the 1st DSAT then. She is currently a sophomore. We are international. Your videos have helped a lot. Her weakest is the main idea ones. Surprising her notetaking ones are good, almost no wrongs. She finds herself running out of time by questions 22 or so out of 27. BTW, she is already getting the harder 2nd module. Thanks for your tips.
Thank you so much for reaching out. I always love hearing from parents and I think it's great when kids have that support at home. If you'd like to meet online, I'd be happy to have a free sit down with you all and talk it over. You can go to prepwithscore.com and book a meeting with me through the link on the homepage.
I think a 200 point increase is absolutely possible especially if she's only a sophomore. 1200 is great for that age. I recommend taking it in junior year towards the end of the year, and then perhaps once more to start senior year. But after that, she should be fully focused on her applications.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor Really? My elder one took it 3 times. Got mid 1400s. Her first time was in Nov of junior year and in hindsight, i would have had her take it more than 3 times. Anyways, she is happily settled at UVA engineering school and she loves every second of it. I am quite hands on. Anyways, thanks for the insight. I will book a session with you. Is it better if my younger daughter meets you too or just me?
Whatever you prefer. I like to talk to both the applicant and the parents if possible, but I also like to talk with parents about some financial aspects of their plans, and I understand that can be sensitive.
These days, the SAT isn't what it used to be, and I don't think it's worth more than 2-3 attempts in most cases. There are other things to prioritize and what those are really depends on each individual's situation, which is why I look to have those meetings so I can give some more tailored advice.
And congrats on the UVA achievement. That's a great school and one you should be proud of.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor Thanks. It must be very late for you. I will attend with my daughter in zoom. I signed up for April 22 (my time). Meanwhile, if you don't mind letting me have your email: is it the gmail one or the admin one(?), I will give you more background about us.
I saw the meeting get registered last night before bed, thank you. I will reach out with my personal email to the one you left when you registered
But my scores dropped in grade 12 3.3 only due to some mental health problems and other issues, and in grade 11 I got 3.6, grade 10 3.95. So I was wondering may be if I get good scores on SAT, ( with some good extracurriulars and a great essay amd LOR) I can get into good university.
So what do you think??
Dropping in grade 12 to 3.3 isn't great to be honest but you also have the opportunity to explain some of that decline with your essays. Still, a great SAT isn't going to make up for 2-3 years of school, it's a test that takes a couple of hours. It's not given as much weight as your grades overall.
But you absolutely can get into a good university. There are thousands of universities and out of them, many good ones. I don't think those grades will let you get into a Harvard or MIT, but you could certainly get into a high quality school like RIT or Binghamton or maybe even a UF or UNC with a good SAT score.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor OK I get it. I am trying for University of texas at Austin
I think for UT Austin you've got a shot, what major?
@@score-yourcollegecounselor CS
CS is more competitive for sure, you're definitely going to want to apply early. It is public so they don't do financial aid for internationals, can you handle the cost? There are scholarships at least but usually for internationals they will cover half the cost at most.
Do you think the digital sat this year will be harder than 2023?
It's really impossible to say because only the people inside College Board could tell you that, so anybody giving you a definitive answer is just making stuff up lol, but I don't think it would suddenly become more difficult. They did pilot testing for like 6 months before the international release, and I would think if there was a need to adjust the difficulty we would have seen it by now.
is cs50 a good eca to get full scholarship in usa ?for a cs major student?what will be the impact of cs50 in a cv in admission officer's pov?
how can i improve my eca ?in a short time if i want a cs major?what the steps can be?can u help me please?
CS50 from Harvard is definitely a good thing to add to your CV, but it's not going to have a huge impact on applications to top schools. Top universities expect you to already have a lot of CS knowledge before attending. I would encourage you to start your own project, think about something you'd like to code or design, and start learning! You can talk about your own personal CS passion project in your essays and CV.
Is it possible for an international student to get a full scholarship with a GPA of 3.3? If I apply for financial aid and I get it, should I reapply annually?
Full scholarship on a 3.3 GPA is going to be very difficult, I won't lie there. Grades matter a lot. Even if you had a 1600 SAT, those grades are still going to limit those full-ride possibilities. It's not impossible though. If you play a sport, you might be able to get a scholarship for that. If you qualify for some merit scholarships, plus sports, plus additional scholarships a university offers, it can get really low to the point where you might still have to pay something, but you could work on campus and cover that cost.
I talked about that in my WVU video. They have merit scholarships AND scholarships specifically for international students. If you can qualify for both, plus apply to some departmental scholarships, your total cost could be under $10k and you could work on campus to cover the rest with a little bit of financial help from your family or savings.
Hey i am from a remote area in India i don't have Ap or sat like they are not available to me will that be a reject to me ( i have above 95% for all exams from grade 9-12)
I applied to harvard
If it's not available to you, they won't hold it against you. But places like Harvard are still going to be probably 99% rejection
WHAT ABOUT THE FULL SCHOLARSHIPS DO WE STILL HAVE TO GET A GOOD SAT score or it s the same ?
Many of the universities I cited here will meet 100% of demonstrated need for international students, which means yes you can get a full ride without a high SAT score, or any SAT score at all. Cornell and F&M for example will cover your costs and both were 40% or more test optional.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor ow woooow thank you so much so now i don’t have to take the SAT i was so nervous about this test van you please give more universities how can give a full scholarship without the SAT
Hi ! I got 1180 in June Digital SAT ؛ Planning to get 1300 in August. My gpa is almost 4 .
Should I prepare to take SAT again?
Depends on where you want to apply honestly. 1180 is an above average score and will be good enough for most schools, but if you're targeting selective colleges that require SAT (Like Florida, Georgetown) it might be low for them.
@SCORE: Your College Counselor THANK U SIR🙏🏼Could you plz recommend some universities that accept SAT 1180 , gpa 4, and TOEFL 90
Depends on what you want to study and how much money you have. There are tons of universities that can accept you. Like thousands.
so should i give SAT or not my score in pratice is 1300
Well you should still do it. That way you can apply to any university you want. Just don't make it the center of your life for months in a row.
So, SAT score doesn't affect the scholarship anymore?
It still can, there are universities that have scales that take the SAT into consideration. And some universities give bigger awards if you have an SAT. I still recommend taking it once. But it's no longer a major determining factor for admission.
But i have 4.0 gpa, so that means that my academic achievements we be considered only on the extracurriculars?
With that GPA you're going to get plenty of offers. The academic factors are always the most important, and then universities evaluate other factors too. I'm working on a series of videos about how to build your list and how to evaluate your chances at each university, so stick around. We'll be covering all of those different factors that universities look at so you can make sure your application is the best it can be
So teacher what should i do to get into MIT,Stanford,Cornell,Yale,KAIST.... etc top universities ?? (bonus* i also have to get scholarship :(. please inform me teacher
There is no magic formula for those, but I made a whole video about ivy league schools a while back. Here's a link:
czcams.com/video/DKLu7wIADTM/video.html
You have to understand that you cannot make those your only plan. There are MANY other great colleges that offer full financial aid to internationals, including places like Notre Dame or liberal arts colleges like Franklin & Marshall. If you only apply to those 5 you mentioned, odds are you're going to be rejected because 90-95% of people get rejected there.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor thanks teacher. I have 1390 SAT and I wanna make 1500+ in June, my gpa score is quite good, I am working on startup projects, I am getting online courses from Harvard and Stanford, I am preparing for TOEFL as well so what else should I do to get into top 100 with scholarship for AI programming major??
I think you're already doing great as far as your profile goes! One of the most important things is demonstrated interest. You have to show them that you understand the program you're applying for and that you have a plan for how you will engage with both the university's courses, and the community. Look into student orgs and activities so that you can show that you really belong there. If you're just applying to these places because you want a full ride, they can tell. If you don't show real interest, it's hard to get in. I'll be making a video about that soon
@@score-yourcollegecounselor thanks teacher for your time 💜
@@score-yourcollegecounselor by the way my verbal scores are really improving cause of your videos . Thanks 🙏
Hi
I understand that all you want is the best for us
But please don't stop the sat live streams for English grammar
Those help so freaking much
You are probably the best if not the only youtuber who does that and thank you for that.
Can't stop won't stop, dw. At my core, I'm a teacher. I studied education. I like teaching. I won't quit those just yet
Yes, the best SAT tutor one can find!!! I got 1450 and I'll try to hit that 1500 milestone this may.
I agree. I read a lot of other SAT online and offline lessons. But this is by far the best for English.
Can you do a part 2 to this about how test optional effects merit scholarships?
In most cases, it doesn't. However, some schools will openly tell you that you can get more with an SAT score and there are some scholarships that require an SAT score, so keep that in mind. I find that is typically more common in public universities.
Does this apply to international students?
Great question. Mostly, yes. However, I think it depends on your education system. Here in Peru, we're kind of screwed because the government just recently changed how grading works and universities in the US won't have a clear way of measuring performance in high school. If your school system is reforming or is considered inferior to the US system (here we have 11 years instead of 12) then you probably SHOULD take the SAT.
But if you're coming from a good system or have IB grades, SAT becomes optional in most cases. And even if your system isn't the best, you still don't have to take it 3-4 times or shoot for 1400+ scores. It still isn't that important in most cases.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor Thank you for the response, I come from relatively undeveloped country so my country's education system is much more inferior in comparison to that of the US. There are no AP courses available anywhere and no club activities, even in private schools like the one i'm currently learning in. On that note, may I ask, how much do american universities care about the gpa or final average grade of students from countries with inferior school systems? Mine are great for my schools standards but I dont know how well it would hold up for american colleges. Thank you again for the answer
Your grade average is always going to be the most important factor. After that, academic rigor and then your class rank if reported will be factored in. So even if your system is way inferior, if you are doing the best you can, most US universities are going to understand that. It's only in the most selective colleges where you'd be limited because most schools will evaluate you within the context of what's possible in your system.
Nobody expects you to have APs when they aren't offered in your country, for example. Universities will not punish you for something outside of your control. Plenty of our Peruvian students get into great colleges without any APs or IB, but it's much harder for them to get into Ivy League schools.
BUT, if your school does not have clubs, that's no excuse for not having extracurriculars. You can go do things outside of school or start your own organization, and colleges like to see people who take that initiative.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor I do have extracurriculars, I've done a good bit of volunteer work through out my highschool years, thank you for the answer
Very informative. Could u please drop your mail. I wanted to ask something related to this video.
If you go to prepwithscore.com there's a link to hit me up on whatsapp
Tests are important. I wouldn't have been accepted based on recommendations of my racist teacher. Also, admissions without test requirements are bound to be based on prejudices and nepotism.
Your story sounds interesting. Where did you get accepted to and with what score out of curiousity? And also, why would you ask your racist teacher for a recommendation and how did you know it would have been negative? Regarding the last point, the UC system has been test-blind for a while and is one of the most diverse in the US. The lawsuit against Harvard even argued racism against Asians using SAT scores. I think prejudices and nepotism are true regardless of whether tests are involved.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor I'm from the Netherlands. After primary school, around age 11-12, your teacher will recommend a specific middle/high school track for each student. Until this school year, teachers were free to give any recommendation they thought suited the student, no matter their grades. My teacher recommended me for 'preparatory vocational education', while I was top of my class and my test scores indicated I should be sent to 'preparatory scientific education' (which opens the way to universities). He thought that because my father was born in a different country, and he had not seen him in the year I went to that particular school (my dad worked two fulltime jobs because my mother was grieving the loss of my little brother and couldn't work), that they wouldn't be able to support me during middle/high school. I never needed any support from my parents for my studies. If you finish the preparatory scientific track, you are allowed to enter any university in the country, given you took the right courses (such as math, physics, etc. for engineering bachelors, etc.). I'm an engineer now. Luckily the system has changed somewhat starting this year. If the tests indicate a "higher" track is more suitable, teachers are obliged to adjust their recommendation upwards (never downwards!). Research has consistently shown that girls, students with working class parents, and students with a migration background were systematically undervalued by their teachers. That is why the rules were changed this year. So I am very hesitant to applaud changes in the educational system which take away the opportunity for students to prove their teachers wrong.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor I gave a very in-depth reply, but the CZcams AI censor bot removed it... I think it removes over half of all comments these days. Soon we won't even be able to discuss the weather. :(
So I think this is super interesting, but also a very different context from that of the United States. I was aware of the two different tiers of universities in the Netherlands and how vocational studies are handled as Peruvian can qualify for Universities of Applied Sciences without any extra credentials, but not research universities for your standard 3+2 track. I had no idea though that your teachers could have so much authority over it.
I personally think that in the US this is less of an issue because students are given more of a voice in their own process. You could write a whole essay about what you faced, and it would help you get into a great university. Universities make the decisions, not your school. Even if the SAT is optional, there are still 14 other factors universities use to make admissions decisions in the US. So I think our system has a lot of checks and balances that would prevent that kind of outright abuse.
Disagree. If a student has a 4.0 GPA and 4/5 scores on seven AP exams, then they have the luxury of not submitting an SAT as their "college-readiness" is apparent. On the other hand, if a student has a 3.0 GPA and no AP courses or exams and chooses to follow this content-creators advice of not doing his/her finest on the SAT, they won't stand a chance.
The first question is that the admissions officers are attempting to answer is whether the applicant is "academically prepared" for the program in question. Essays and extracurricular will have no impact if you cannot demonstrate this threshold question, unless you are a one-in-a-million athlete or the alike. Caveat emptor.
They won't stand a chance where? Because I can tell you there are plenty of places that will accept you with a 3.0 GPA and no SAT. An amazing SAT score isn't going to suddenly make up for a 3.0 GPA and get you into MIT or Purdue. You're right that they want to see college readiness, but your GPA weighs into that much more than a test you took on a Saturday for 3 hours.
I'm curious in which scenario do you think a high SAT score would help someone in that sort of academic situation. I'm sure there are some borderline cases where it could make a difference, in like 95% of cases that 3.0 GPA is going to limit you regardless of your SAT score.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor With respect, I agree that a below average GPA and a low rigor curriculum will be limiting. My assertion is that the "odds" are improved if they are coupled with a high test score along with an upward trend and an attempt to "excuse" the GPA performance via essays. No one can say whether this would be enough as the process has become more subjective in certain cases. Anecdotally, this strategy might be more successful with an under represented minor as opposed to an Asian candidate.
Said another way, the same student profile would be weaker without a high score exam score. Moreover, the Test optional path is really only available to students with an above average GPA and rigorous coursework. Not applicable to those who don't meet this prerequisite.
This man doesn't want he is talking about. You cannot look at data this way. You already have data for each individual school,then you got talk about individual schools not as a general sense.
The schools care less about sat are schools usually not that selective. They are lucky to have enough decent students to apply. There are also schools try to hide their bias on certain groups so they want to get rid of the evidence by not looking at test. But are you belong to those groups? If not,this so called trend is not relevant to you.
Anyway, look at individual schools, then talk.
I have been looking at individual schools. Even T20 universities are admitting 30%+ test optional now. It's not nearly as important as you think. I've talked to hundreds of AOs about it too. The consensus is that the SAT is a barrier to entry that doesn't need to be there. The trend continues to head towards test-optional and test-blind policies. Are there exceptions? Sure. Purdue, Georgetown, MIT. There are still some schools that care about your test scores. But it's not as big a deal as most of you make it out to be, and you ignore other parts of your application at your detriment sometimes.
Also, what bias to what groups are you talking about?
@@score-yourcollegecounselor
Come on, you know what I am talking about,
If you want to increase so called diversity, you want to make room for some legacy kids, donor kids or athletes, you bond to lower your academic standards.
The problem is it has been scrutinized more than ever, including the recent supreme court case. You don't want to give people the evidence they are seeking for which was available for that case and it was quite damaging for their reputation. What could be a better way to go test optional and hide the only compatible scale between students? If you need 30% those students, you need discourage 30% students NOT submit the score.
Now, it's up to you to looking in the mirror asking yourself, why do they want to pick you if you are not in those groups and only thing you can show to them is a 4.0 GPA from a mediocre high school. Your essay? Are you seriously believe you have such a compelling story to move those folks who have seen literally thousands of similar bs? And you think they don't know why you didn't submit sat?
So, if what you're referring to here is Asian discrimination in these top-tier schools, I have mixed feelings on that. I don't think there's that much of it honestly. And I really don't think it has anything to do with test policies.
The lawsuit was in play almost a decade ago, but nobody really started doing test-optional in earnest until the pandemic. If they were trying to make it easier to discriminate, why not go test-optional years ago? Policies are hard to change, but the pandemic forced them to change overnight, and then they stuck around. That should tell you something. The fact that MORE schools have gone test-optional or test-blind is telling.
Now, why do they want to pick you if all you have is a 4.0 from a mediocre high school? How about your ECs? How about your recommendations? Your personality and attitude. That stuff matters. And honestly, and I know this can sound harsh, but a lot of Asian moms don't let their children explore activities they really want to. They dictate life to the point where their children struggle to develop independence and autonomy. I see it every day. You have excellent applicants on paper but when you actually sit and talk with them, they don't even seem to know why they're applying aside from the fact that "it's the best school." Plus, most of that demographic applies to the same competitive STEM majors, which makes it even harder to get in.
@@score-yourcollegecounselor
First, it's not just affirmation actions, now the target is legacy. I think they are trying to avoid the same mistake. Because it was test required back then, the data are solid and they have to disclose them. It gave a clear picture on preference. But next time a similar case on something else,for example to show legacy kids are generally lower in academic level, they can claim they don't have the data.
But even that, you still say a clear positive correlation between the selective of a school and the percentage of acceptance submitted test score. Again, if they cannot fully rely on school report card which is super inflated nowadays, they have to look at test. Maybe not for those they want and hide the fact that they cannot perform on the same level,but everyone else needs it.