Ask a Therapist: Gaslighting in Churches; what it is and why it is a problem
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2020
- I hear people use the term Gaslighting all the time, but I'm not sure how often we look at our past and think about how Gaslighting has impacted us . First off, Gaslighting is a psychological act by a person or entity to manipulate (and gain power over) someone else. This shows up in relationships where there is an imbalance of power As anyone who has been impacted by religious trauma knows, the power struggle in the church world is REAL, and leaders are not above using Gaslighting to keep their congregation in line. Check out this next edition of our Religious Trauma Series, and don't forget to subscribe!
#gaslighting #religioustrauma #therapistanswers
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Kelly is a LMHC (Licensed Mental Health Counselor) in the USA making CZcams videos to inform, entertain, and empower viewers. Watching these videos does not constitute a therapeutic relationship or therapy. Should you wish to find a therapist, or more information, check out the links below!
Helpful Links:
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🧡The Trevor Project: www.thetrevorproject.org/
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💚Great article on Internalized Homophobia: www.rainbow-project.org/inter...
💙 Instagram: @AnchoredCounselingFL
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When I was 16 my mom took me to a religious counselor and he basically said my depression was spiritual warfare and demons were trying to get my soul and the solution was that I had to get up an hour earlier and meditate on Psalm 23. Luckily I had stopped believing on my own by that time so I wasn't too shaken up by that, but if I had been a believer that is a truly terrifying thing to say to a depressed teenager with a chemical imbalance. I'm 19 and moved out, on meds now, and have an actual therapist which has done more good than loosing sleep to think about demons trying to possess me ever could've.
I am so glad you were able to see through the bull crap that is the "pray the mental illness away" movement. AND that you found a therapist that is a good fit for you (and does REAL therapy!). 💛🧡🧡
Yup!! I was told my bipolar disorder was the “enemy attacking my mind”… smh 🤦🏽♀️
As a former Independent Fundamental Baptist, I relate to this. I'm glad there are credentialed people making others aware of these issues.
I'm so glad you found the channel. Thank you for watching! 💙💙
Guilt-tripping is also something I often hear from the church preachers.
I imagine many people don't even know that they're having religious traumas because they're constantly gaslighted.
I think you are definitely right. It is often not until way after people have left religion that they realize the level of the harm done. 💙💙
BROOOO I know you talking bout the door/potters house for sure now. I spend 18 years there and got kicked out because I called out a double standard. I’m also not allowed to contact a single person in the church and my literal whole family goes there😆 they wanted to push me to Christ but they ended up pushing me to deeeeep depression and suicide attempts. Your videos bring alot of peace and clarity! Thank you
How people call themsves Christ followers and then punish people by removing fellowship is beyond me. I am so sorry that you were treated that way. You didn't deserve it and it wasn't your fault. ❤️❤️❤️
I unfortunately fell victim to that cult a few years ago. They are extremely abusive and dangerous because they come off very charismatic and inviting but once you join, the mask falls off! The leader is abusive and narcissistic, the scare tactics every week about how you’ll be left behind when the rapture happens, how you’re actually never once saved always saved (so you question your salvation often ) how you will never be good enough, how they control what you do in and out the church (can’t own a tv, cant watch R rated movies, can’t miss church services or they will question you, women can’t be in leadership roles etc) that place gave me legit PTSD! I’m glad you found your way out of there! The Potter’s House was the final nail in the coffin for me!
I quite happily stumbled upon your channel recently and have shared several with one of my sisters. We've been discussing our experiences with The Church and your insightful and compassionate videos have been so helpful in these difficult conversations. We truly appreciate the time and energy you've put into these, thank you!
I am so so so glad to hear this! Go you for doing the work of untangling religious trauma! It is complicated, messy, and yet so worth it. Keep it up, you're doing great! ❤️
Thank God for you! This is my experience in the church for years! My pastors of my last church are still doing this very thing in a new church!
I'm so glad you are watching! 💜💜
This is definitely spot on! The gaslighting is on an astronomical level in the church! They must gaslight to keep everyone in line and to not question the status quo. I can most definitely resonate with the mental illness and the victim blaming piece(I’ve lived it unfortunately) and I was definitely coerced not to put my stepdad in prison because I would ruin the family and if God can forgive me, then I should be able to forgive him (forgiveness meaning not taking your abuser to court even with evidence proving that they are indeed guilty of the wrong you’re taking them in for). There’s something else I want to touch on and I hope you make a video about it one day and it’s Christianity and their beliefs that all sins are equal and in the sight of God all are deserving of the same punishment. This is not only damaging but extremely dangerous. I had a Christian tell me what my stepdad did (he molested me) is equally the same to God if a person stole a stick of gum out of a store. They followed up by saying that, I am not without sin so I HAD to forgive him if I want God to forgive me. This is so harmful because they are basically going against the moral/ ethic code of our judicial system. They basically believe unaliving someone and telling a lie is equal, and we all with common sense know it’s not. There’s a reason why crimes are not created equal and do not have the same punishments. A person stealing gum vs a person SA another person are NOT THE SAME and the courts will give a heavier sentence to the latter. It’s insulting the victim and teaches them that they don’t have a right to feel wronged because they either A. Make you feel guilt by saying we all are sinners or B. Minimizes our trauma and the experience we went through. I truly hope you touch on the all sin are equal topic because it’s so harmful. I was a teenager when I saw just how that idea was being used to gaslight people into believing that you must forgive or minimize your experience altogether…
This comment is full of amazing processing, I can tell you've been doing good (tough!) work to heal. I am sorry that ANY of that stuff happened to you. The results of that level of guilt and gaslighting are tremendous on the psyche.
I love that idea for a video! I'll put it on my list for after pride month for sure. 💜💙💚
I grew up in a Baptist church so let me tell you that you are far from alone in this fight it seems that most everyone who grows up in an actual religious household ends up leaving said religion as soon as there old enough to do so that should be all the evidence that there needs to be right there that the religion has it wrong I still personally believe in God I believe in the God of the Bible but I don’t believe that the Bible is meant to be take literally and I believe that Christian’s have drastically misunderstood the Bible and taken much of it out of context in order to support whatever agenda they feel like pushing that week and the idea that a pedo can go to heaven while there victims suffer in hell because the pedo chose to believe the right theology it disturbs me on a very deep level please don’t let these people turn you away from God he loves you and he isn’t going to torture you if you don’t love him back that’s an ultimatum and he doesn’t need to resort to that to win your love it’s the church that needs threats and fear
I’m sorry to hear about what you went through. I am a believer in Jesus and I find the stick of gum/abuse comparison outrageous and unfair. A Bible study on justice (doing the right thing) shows that justice is very important to God. A part of justice is fair punishment equal to the crime.
No compassion for mental health! I mean very nonchalant about it!
I think the word compassion is EXACTLY what is missing. Which is even more problematic, given that the Church is supposed to be about compassion.
I’m really happy I found your videos. Thank you for standing up for people that were hurt and defending up for those in need. Thank you for not belittling people but also bringing things to the light and being honest! I know you probably went through a lot to share this stuff .
Thanks for saying this! I firmly believe that honesty and shedding light on some of those dusty and not talked about corners is the ONLY way we all get better. ❤️
Kelly It is very hard for me to deal with the guilt for not "believing" the same as my family. My mother says, don't worry god will take care of you. When I say that I don't believe that, my mom cries and tells my siblings that I am hurting her. Then my family attacks me. It is very confusing.
I am so sorry. Your mother's feelings are not yours to be responsible for, and it is unfair that she or anyone else in your family creates an environment where you feel that responsibility. It sounds like your mom is dealing with some intense boundary issues. I know it is hard to differentiate between the two, but again that's not yours to fix. You have the right to believe what you believe, and to deconstruct that however you need to. Usually I encourage clients to pick a sentence they will stick with. Something like "I am sorry that you are hurt by my questions/thoughts. I am also sorry that you are unable to see past your hurt to understand my point of view. My process is not a out you, it is about ME."
My mother does this to me, too. I'm in my mid-30s, moved closer to my parents after a suicide attempt and then my husband leaving me. But she stilllllll pulls this manipulative bullshit on me. ALL she sees is her OWN hurt. It drives me fucking crazy. I have the right to believe whatever the fuck I want. Deal with it.
She’s being manipulative and trying to guilt you to comply with what she wants from you out of YOUR life.. make it make sense… parents are only here to love, protect and guide us into adulthood. What they fail the understand is, YOU ARE YOUR OWN PERSON! It’s very sad when a parent can’t understand this, and that your kids aren’t here to make you happy and fulfilled by doing what you want them to do. Kids are not an extension of their parents! This is part of narcissistic abuse with child/parent dynamic. I’m so sorry you had to deal with this…smh
Hi. My aunt told me my depression is because I'm ungrateful, and that my lack of Financial Security is because I don't work hard enough. She's agnostic now but was raised in the church. Thank you for what you said about that, it helped me to accept that it's about her, not about me.
I am so sorry that those things were ever said to you. That was NOT ok, and like you said, not your burden to carry. ❤️❤️
Girl girl GIRL!! This series is everything. I wish I could put this on a loud speaker and just post up in front of every church in my city 😅 because it will resonate with who it needs to resonate with... And that's not everyone but those who need to hear this topic really NEED to because they are languishing in a sanctuary somewhere. Thank you for being bold enough to tell it like it is for some of us. And as a Licensed Therapist in even more excited about this message getting out. ❤
Thank you so, so much for watching!!! 😀😀🧡🧡
Excellent! A long time ago I was rebuked by a Christian woman for being depressed. She said it was a tool of the devil. As if I could’ve just stopped feeling that way, right? In a good state of mind I could have agreed. But, I was in a state of depression. I couldn’t think critically and was crying for help and needed medication. I can’t stand it either when people say pray harder or try harder to get over it.
The very idea of "try harder" to get out of depression is inherently demeaning, because it implies the person WANTS that pain (or, to some churches, deserves it, ugh). I am sorry that was said to you, and I am glad you know it is NOT true. 💚💚
Amen, Amen and Amen!
Hi Kelly, I'm so thankful you are doing these religious trauma videos. Would you be able to do one about Christian Counseling? I have SO many struggles as a result of this sham. Please please please please please!!
I will absolutely do some about this in the New Year!! Thanks for the suggestion! 💙💙
Thank you soooo so much for this series
Thank you for watching! This seems to be on a LOT of people's minds right now so expect more of this to come! 😊
Thanks for the video!
Thank you for watching! 💛💛
This video is spot on and fabulous! Thank you so very much! Keep speaking up!
I am so glad you liked it! 💚💚💚
Subscribed to your channel! Thank you for putting this out there. ❤️
Welcome to our little corner of the internet! 💜💜
I known a Pastor that said depression is only the sufferers selfishness . You are being selfish when you have depression . There are a lot of master manipulators out there in Churchland . Beware and guard yourselves . Be critical and never let anything slide .
Wow. That's just...I don't have words. I feel like I want to do another "response to terrible things christians say" and make it all just about mental health. Some of these are doozies. 🤦🏽♀️
I love the Leonid Afremov paintings in the background :)
Thank you 😁😁
If mental illness comes from sin, why did I see myriads of cases of preachers/Church leaders who suffered from Alzheimer's???
You ask an excellent question 🧐
Thank you, this is making changes from within 🍻❎✔️
I am glad you liked it! ❤❤
Spot on.
Thanks! 💛
Thank you for this.
You are very welcome!!
@@KellyRMinter Im actually gonna be doing a series of episodes on Characteristics of Cults on churches this Sunday so this was helpful.
That's awesome!
Literally my family
Ugh, I am so sorry to hear that. That's a HARD place to be in, both frustrating and often lonely. 😕
@@KellyRMinter Yes, it is very lonely when your family rejects you because you are no longer going along with them
".. and it turns out the thing that they want you to stop doing is harmful to them"
Ok lets discuss that.. I was at a Church where I began to notice off the cuff racist remarks were quite normal in the undertone of this particular Church.. I took lead from Biblical Instruction and tried to speak to one particular person who not only blew me off began garnering others in attacking and slandering my character.. so I approached the Church Elders and was then attacked as trying to cause strife and division within the Church
I guess you are right though.. as a black male I was speaking out because these comments were directly offensive to me and it was completely selfish, Biblical Principles didnt matter 🙄
I want to start off by saying that alllllll of that story is NOT ok. You had the right to expect that the leaders would validate your experience and fix the harm being done. Anything less than that (which what happened here falls into the WAY less than the bare minimum category).
I'm not sure if the eye roll at the end is at the church leadership or at my statement quoted above. Reading/typing obviously erases nuance and tone. So if it was at me, first off I apologize for that, and would be willing to engage in more conversation if you'd like. If it was at them, then I join you in the eye roll, for sure! Because for them biblical principals went out the window when they were asked to change their own behavior. 🩵❤️💙
@@KellyRMinter it was at your assertion that if you are being confronted about harm to them then it is selfish and narcissistic and not of God.. so I have given you an example where your claim does not always ring true so it may need some fine tuning
Interesting. I definitely think you heard that statement way different than the context indicates. I'd love it if you could link the point in the video where the original quote comes from, I just did a run through and can't actually find it. 😬
@@KellyRMinter 2:41 .. I know how you may have meant it to sound but my incident leaves it sounding like Im the one who approached somebody and confronted them as mentioned at @2:26 and it turns out I did want them to stop doing something that was harmful to me.. and according to your analysis @2:56 "even if its masked in spirituality" and I did apply Biblical Principles .. if you listen with my situation in mind you could see how I'm sitting here listening thinking I'm being called the gaslighter
I love the slow and fast speed examples of gaslighting. The only thing is that I've found no matter how their liberal theology is there is gaslighting, hypocrisy, and shunning of one sort or another. Maybe the Universalists Churches might not be so much. Even just belivieving in the "relationship with Jesus" comes with heavy baggage, especially because not until meek and mild Jesus came eternal hell-fire and damnation, for ever and ever, for finite crimes. There's plenty of gaslighting with Jesus's love.
Ugh there is so much truth in your words. I hate that so many people are walking around with these scars from communities that are supposed to be about all about "love". 💜❤️💜
This is good
Thank you for watching! 💕💕
Maybe someone can relate. Was told I have a Jezebel spirt. By a young pastor… he’s got an anger problem…. And a control problem….I met up and wanted to know his views on certain doctrine issues..he said.. I’m become critical… (coz I asked a few questions) and becoz I wanted the mic “I have a
Jezebel spirit…” He refuses to apologise and I said it was “an abusive remark as I identify as a child of God “. Your thoughts please?
wow, You hit the nail on the head. How do I email you? I live in a small christian town and I am not a Christian. I don't go to church. I am mentally ill. And I and my service dog have been gaslighted and made fun of and so much more. It has been hell living here. I am trying to sell my house and move. I don't want to say anymore unless I can email you. So far I can't find your email address. But I will keep looking.
Hi there! You can email me at kelly@anchoredcounselingfl.com
I feel like my religious parents are gaslighting me but what if they seem so sincere and they're trying their best and they're hurt when i call them out
And what if they say to stop looking into these things and i should stop saying they're gaslighting and I'm coming to my own conclusions/making it up
I cant trust myselfffffff
There is definitely intentional gaslighting (manipulation, usually excused as being in the other person's best interest) and unintentional gaslighting (manipulation for the gaslighter's gain). depending on what your parents are saying, it could be something taught to them that is gaslighting in nature but they have accepted it as truth. I don't know. But one of the things that is a good idea is to get the opinion of someone as unbiased and familiar with the situation as possible. Is there another trusted friend or adult that is familiar with all of you and able to help you work through what is true and what is not?
I am going through the same thing sweetheart and its really messing with my head and making me anxiety and depression go crazy like almost like if I go with my gut then I'll end up dead bc thats what the Lord told them and it feels really sincere like thats really what's gonna happen
Did you intentionally change the voices in your video??
Yes I did! 💙
Did you go to my church?😂 cause you’re saying word for word what my pastor said everytime. I’ve been so depressed and all I can think is that the reason I’m this way is cause I need God.
Haha I wish these things were not so widespread, and I was talking about your church or a few like it!
Thanks. Yes mam. You have it right. These churches are not lining up with true biblical church Neither are the disciples may. Lining up Pharisee standard. Looks like the end is near Stay close to Jesus
I often wonder how many present day churches look the way the God they say they serve actually expects them to. So I'm using my platform to shed light on the damage that can be caused, in the hopes that people feel less alone and more supported 🧡🧡
Let's not forget that #8 on the top 10 careers of a Psychopath is Clergy.
Psychopaths are masters of Gas lighting.
I wish this was more surprising. Also, I'm off to google what the 7 careers were before it, because I've got content to make 😉
I so much enjoyed the blissful ignorance of the IFB chapel until a church lady told me all the gossip being talked about me. I confronted them and the Pastor with Matthew 18 and its been a year since they wouldnt hear me so if they truely follow the bible then they are the heathens.
They need to step back from the picture & view it differently. The enemy gets in there & breaks the whole thing up by using our sinful human nature.
I hear what you are saying. Even when I was working in the church I always wondered if using phrases like "the enemy" was a psychological way to create distance for people between who they are and the decisions they were making. 💛💛
I think Christianity as a whole is gaslighting
There is definitely something gaslight-y about an entity that benefits from making you not trust yourself or your own experiences, you are right. ❤
@@KellyRMinter I deconverted about 5 years ago still trying to find my own sense of spirituality I’ll get there
@@KellyRMinter Behavior Analyst (BCBA) here. It is my personal opinion, not professional applied behavior analysis advice, that religion uses differential reinforcement (hell as punishment, heaven as reinforcement) as a means of the person "mastering" the behavior of cultural christian practices which their church/sect desire obedience for. I went to christian school until II was 10 and looking back it bares an unsettling resemblance to an abuser grooming their victims until they have something similar to stockholm syndrome, where they think the abuse is actually love and defend it as such. I feel they wanted the children to become dependent on the church as our sole source of identity and confidence so we would never believe in ourselves as strong and capable, and to atrophy critical thinking through demanding obedience and shaming into never questioning what they said. Where I believe the gaslighting fits especially in is during puberty and young adulthood, and when raising children of our own. These are difficult times in people's lives in which they need help and seek answers, the only people to turn to are the church, the only place one finds solutions is through christ, and when questions appear, they gaslight through circular reasoning about what god wants from them and then they pray. After that, they leave and the member has feelings of confusion but doesn't let go of their belies, due to decades of emotional abuse and gaslighting that they are evil or lost without god. These are just my opinions based on my experiences from christian school and church and are not professional opinions in which any individuals who are reading this should take actions on. Thank you for putting your thoughts out on the matter, it appears to be helping many people based on the comments. Many people have been hurt or destroyed by their church or religion and they need to know that there is nothing wrong with them for seeing through the abusive lies, shaming, and manipulation perpetrated on them.
Not right to be gaslighted by a priest.
Very true! 💙💙
Whether the Church Trauma was intended or not is not relevant.. whats relevant is God intended it! God allowed it and knew exactly how it would impact you!
Wait so are you saying that God intends religious trauma? I just want to clarify 🧡
@@KellyRMinter im saying God is in control