@@Shadowkey392 And it's the same one for the THIRD time after setting them up to be the big bad whilst also juggling a tonne of story threads. Also, Cyber Lord is a Better name than Cyber Masters
The Bill/Rise of the Mondasian Cybermen is the most disturbing cyberman episode I've seen. Seeing the 'evolution' of them and the ones in the hospital shaking and saying "Pain! Pain! Pain!" only to have their voices muted bc no one wants to hear it or seems to care. Truly frightening!
I feel that 'World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls' was the one story in Modern Who where the Cybermen were done right and lived up to their true potential. The first part explored the disturbing body horror aspect while the second part explored their unrelenting and never-ending nature. Yes, there maybe were other things going on but that was because it was Capaldi's last stand so of course it would focus on other elements besides them. Plus, I thought it felt more like a Cybermen story than a Master story since the threat of the Cybermen looms over whilst the two Masters are just mere supporting players.
Rise of the cybermen/age of steel has them KILL humans instead of upgrade them. Giving them a one-word catchphrase was a bad idea - unless delete became deleting the personality of the target, making them a mindless drone, free to upgrade
They done a Spider-man 3 on it though and tried to make it a Master/Missy story too. There should only be one villain as when The Master/Missy come along its like they're the real bad guys and the Cybermen are just things that shoot you. I liked it a lot but I think it could have been a lot better. I wish they didn't have the Cybermen advance to the modern versions by the end either.
I think Nardole is actually Dorium Maldovar. When they see the blue guy who kills Bill in world enough and time, he says 'i should go back to being blue' or something along those lines.
@@bigfatcarp93 Me either but yes it would have made for an interesting thought-provoking narrative to explore it, after all, in many ways, the difference between him and the cybermen is one of degree. But hearing his views on it would also make for excellent character development as it would reveal what he views as the most important aspects of humanity we all have that line where we would stand up and say no enough is enough and it reveals a lot about what a person values.
Seraphina I think they shied away from this because as the series went on the doctor talks about how nardole became more human as he reconstructed his body on the cheap
could make a horrifying R rated spin off. The Cybermen have great potential for body-horror, but they get a bit hamstrung with what they can get away with showing.
you pointed out my one frustration with the series 12 finale. the cybermen finally had this amazing story and i was loving it, and then the master came and highjacked it and the cybermen just became footsoldiers for the master again :(
The cyber men are such a gorgeous original sci-fi idea that adapts so beautifully to each generation that I can’t help but view them as my favourite while still being incredibly underwhelmed by how they are portrayed now.
I have mixed feelings on this. The Cybermen *were* an original idea in the 1960s. But I do feel nowadays that the philosophical ideas of transhumanism have been pretty thoroughly explored in fiction over the last fifty years, indeed we're now getting to the point where those same ideas are crossing over from the "fi" to the "sci", in that people are increasingly treating it as a relevant real-world issue in our actually existing future, rather than a mildly diverting what-if thought experiment about some hypothetical world. Maybe I'm just not imaginitive enough to think of fresh, interesting angles to approach the central idea from. I think the idea alluded to in the video, that upgrading could become a form of rescue for our species in a dystopian future, is relatively unexplored next to the classic "humans enslaved by their own machines" trope. It's always in the bad times that people turn to previously unthinkable options. Make that episode, someone.
Yeah those Cybus conversion chambers traumatised me. Every time I see a clip from rise of the cybermen or age of steel, my heart rate goes up. Good job Russel T Davis
Nightmare in Silver seems to have turned the Cybermen into the Borg from Star Trek, and then crossed with Aliens, which, as you said, completely misses the point of them. A lot of Dr Who episodes only half dive into the themes they are presenting. Especially in the Moffat era, it was all about getting an emotional response by having some major twist or tragedy. He was much better at writing individual episodes than at running the show, in my opinion.
Meh... Ikind of feel like Dr Who left its old sci-fi roots for drama a long time ago. When not just the person with the doctor at the time but the viewers were patronised by the ‘Timywimy’ line its going to be a hard road going back to the true sci fi horror.
You are wrong. The point of them IS because they are constantly upgrading and adapting. That's their entire gimmick. They were upgrading themselves before the borg was even an idea on a peace of paper so i don't know why people are always having a go at them for doing what they supposed to do: upgrade. They have not become a ripoff of the borg at all. How many times have they been updated and upgraded over the years? They had nearly ten different stories before the borg even showed up and nearly every time they were uodated in some way. The whole idea of them is that they are constantly adapting to survive and that's what NiS did. I feel like calling them borg is just a lame excuse to hate on them because they've always been trying to overcome their weaknesses.
Yeah both the Cybermen and the Borg are both cybernetic humanoid monstrosities but the underlying themes are quite different. The Borg are presented almost as a dark mirror of the Federation. They both are comprised of many different races, pool together their greatest minds and resources all for the common good and every new species added could make the lives of billions better. It's their methods that set them radically apart and part of the reason why they're so disturbing to the Federation. Their power and technology makes them almost a force of nature when battling against and even when they're defeated you know they'll just come back stronger. Both have big body horror and emotionless monster elements but themes are different. The Cybermen, as mentioned above, are about the over-reliance on technology and the tragedy over how much people are willing to sacrifice in the name of survival. The Borg are about relentless expansion and self improvement at the expense of everything else, an overwhelming force, alien and mysterious yet disturbingly familiar.
@@invinciblereason1618 Also,The Borg were originally supposed to be more insectoid style creatures like the parasite in an early TNG episode but because of budgetary constraints,they were changed into the zombielike cyborgs marauders we now know and fear/love them as!Ironically,the Go`auld were changed from Grey aliens in the movie to buglike parasites with God Complexes in SG-1.
I agree with you about Series 10 finale up to a point, I feel it strikes the balance between the many threads rather effectively and it is one of my favourite stories because of that. However, I recognise how frustrating it is when the episode shows such a chilling and profound understanding of the Cybermen, only to focus on other factors.
Great comment as always Joe! On rewatch I actually think it's entered my top 3 finales - the high concept of a blackhole spaceship is worth the entrance fee alone. My issue with it doesn't even impact my enjoyment of it, I just think of it more as a Master story rather than a Cyberman story. If I'm looking at it just for Cybermen it doesn't give me what I want but I agree it's great.
@@FullFatVideos To me the first half is a definite Cyberman story, it laser focuses on them and gets to the heart of the concept. The second half is both Master and 12th Doctor story.
I think the issue with the Cybermen in the finales of series 8 and 10 is that they're just tools to develop Missy and 12's relationship (which is fine because that is an incredible story) instead of villain's on their own while I agree the direction Moffat took them in was fantastic and long overdue it would have been great to get an episode like Dark water or World enough and time in an earlier series
I always thought Doctor Falls would have been way more interesting if Bill was seen in Cyberman form more often. I know her appearing as a human is important to her character, but it would have been cool, even if just for one or two scenes, to have her talking with the Doctor in her Cyberman form.
Zarbi Xii completely ruined it for me tbh. The most horrific element of cyber-conversion was removed, minimising the impact of her conversion at every term.
I figured it was just us experiencing how The Doctor saw her. He saw right through it and didn't even acknowledge the Cyberman exterior and connected directly with the human woman underneath. Because it was kind. If he looked at her differently, she would feel it, it would hurt her. So he just chose to see only Bill. I thought it was nice.
Another wasted opportunity: One of the Doc's best companions (Lethbridge Stewart) was turned into a Cyberman. He is only shown once as a cameo helping him and his daughter mildly. Knowing that it was one of his best human friends that made that choice should make Doc think about his effect on his companions and the loss that the Cybermen themselves are representing for others
I always thought the ending of "The Age of Steel" was really grim. Letting all those people realise who they are and what happened to them was horrifying. And I always thought The Doctor should have shown more emotion about it.
Always liked Age of Steel as an alternative universe origin. The only downside of it is the design of the Cybermen they went far too robotic and once the horror of the zombie population being upgraded subsides then the final form is a bit Naff. That being said its still a heck of an episode and does most things correctly for a very good cyber story. Great Video!
Gerald Ward I actually quite like the robotic designs, I know I’m in the minority on this but I find the idea of them only take. The brain even more chilling
Yeah, whenever the cyberman are shown, they just look like iron man suits. It's especially ridiculous in the S8 finale, where every human that ever lived is now a cyberman. Even if their remains are like one finger bone, making them 99.9% metal.
@@christopherbennett5858 @IgglPggl defo good points on that. lumic's brain was the one part of him left that was working and not sick. For sure his end result made that the centrepiece of the new species.
My issue with Rise/Age is that it's not a willing conversion in some part. I feel like the Mondasian Cybermen (particularly in stories like WEAT/Spare Parts) are a far better concepts. There is actually an idea that the conversion process is something people wanted to start, and it slowly erodes their humanity as people fall further and further into upgrading to escape their shitty conditions. It's a tragic tale that goes beyond simply "madman wants immortality" - it's them taking adaptation into their own hands and losing themselves in the process
Ngl when the human cybermen of petes world see themselves and go insane it’s honestly the saddest scene in doctor who you see the whole race perish in pain just because they could see and feel who they’d become every cyber scream is just a person screaming themselves to death at the moment they saw they were stuck in a cold metal body that didn’t eat feel or breathe
Yessss. I LOVE the Cybermen, probably my favourite Who villain. It sucks that they haven't had many great stories in New Who. Their concept is so tragic and terrifying at the same time.
Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel reminds me a lot of MGS4 as in that soldiers get nanomachines that suppress the trauma of killing people and when it gets turned off at the end of the first chapter all the soldiers get overcome by grief and misery. I wish The Doctor Falls was better, World Enough and Time was great imo and then it just fell flat. The same with all the Moffat finales.
Watching this on the bus and there is a round blue night light behind me that reflected off my phone screen. My emotions and bowels are definitely working 😨🤖
I love World Enough and Time + The Doctor Falls. It’s a great watch and although you don’t see much of the humans before they’re converted, that scene in the hospital where the patients plead for their death to Bill really gives you the same feeling as the dying cyberman scene from Rise of the Cyberman/Age of Steel
Forget just the Modern series, I feel like the latter half of the Classic series also utilized the Cybies incredibly poorly. I think, with the Chibnall era apparently going in a relatively more experimental direction, I think we need a straight up horror story with the Cybermen. Do something that’s scary *primarily,* like Blink. I personally feel like the strongest showcase of the Cybermen as something genuinely horrifying is World Enough and Time. It was immediately undercut by The Doctor Falls making them featureless flunkies again. I’d love to see something in the vein of “Dalek” or “Resolution”; revitalize the Cybermen by doing a story about *one.* ONE Cyberman, not even necessarily anything to do with an action plot. Excellent point about Nardole, by the way. Such a waste to never capitalize on his cyborg nature in a Cyberman story.
Interested to see how a one cyberman story would work. I'd have thought that idea would better lend itself to a 'kill everything' villain like the Daleks
IamMrRand00m953 By putting them in a weak or vulnerable position where they’re unable to convert other people, easy. It’s been done a few times before (eg. “The Silver Turk”, a really good 8th Doctor audio story) and it’s worked pretty much every time.
The issue the Cyberman have is fundamentally, they kind of always been the "Not-Daleks" Heck the only reason they got to have a heyday in Second Doctor's era was because they couldn't use the Daleks. And as much as people make a big deal of the converting as what makes them unique and the revived era lost that, even the classic series never used it much. It barely shows up in their golden age of Second Doctor. Of their four appearances "Tomb" is the only one to really focus on conversion and "Moonbase" and explicitly have them want to invade Earth for it's non-human resources. And then conversion doesn't come up again until "Attack" in the 80's! The series as a whole has never really figured out what to do with these guys. The best we've ever really done is use them to lend importance to an episode is, but at the same the Cybermen are not so important that the episode has to focus completely on them. And then you get stuff like the comics where some writers does a: "what if they were the most bad-ass species?" Even though their other big thing is being on the verge of extinction, or thought extinct. With that theme showing up in some form in six of their nine classic series appearances.
i really want to see a story were they explore the transition from human to cyberman. World Enough and Time went into it, but only explored the physical changes, what if instead it started with just wanting to remove pain, or sadness, and it just kept going form there. What would someone who couldn't experience those things be like.
I disagree with World Enough and Time and The Doctor Falls being a Master story. I think that was what Moffet knew people were expecting so the twist in the The Doctor Falls was that it was a Cyberman story, that both Masters end up having to flee with the Doctor when he makes it so Cybermen think they could upgrade Time Lords
I like the story idea of humans willingly or enthusiastically becoming cybermen. Have no deception, cohersion, or delusion. Give the upgrading peoples a really compelling argument which is not a straw man and then see what the doctor does. Likely the enviroment challange already mentioned.
I've always liked that no matter if The Doctor completely gets rid of the cybermen whether it be The Mondasians or Cybus Industries they'd always evolve back into existence as if humanities goal of forever improving is a curse and the result being the Cybermen being inevitable and the doctor just delays the inevitable
Finally! Other people besides me prefer the Cybermen as villains for the Doctor! The Daleks are almost too cute. And the preponderance of LOUSY storylines (the Third Doctor did them NO FAVORS!) reduced their malevolence. THey had a brief rebound with Genesis of the Daleks but went back to being silly. That said, Daleks were best in the 1960s. I thought the Cybermen were best in the 1960s, too, but they still have that malevolence and creepiness cyborgs have always had for me.
10:00 There're canonically loads of different factions/species of Mechanoids and Techno-organics in the Whoniverse... I never really questioned it myself.
My favourite Cybermen line, which reminds me of that famous line from the Controller in Tomb, is from Doomsday - "... Cybermen will remove fear, Cybermen will remove sex, and class, and colour, and creed, you will become identical, you will become like us."
I really enjoy Series 10 and was so surprised that I've never even thought of the potential Nardole could have in the series finale. A brilliant point, and top video as always - keep it up lads
We definitely need more Doctor Who villains like the Cybermen. I have no qualm whatsoever with stating that the Mondasian Cybermen from World Enough and Time was quite easily one of the stand-out sci-fi villains I've seen in the past decade. And it's funny to think that if you took a concept from 1966 and basically gave the costume department the resources needed to give it an "upgrade", as it were, you end up with such a terrifying presence! I agree with this video completely, Doctor Who could do so much with these guys now!
Although I agree with the whole, body horror, emotion issue aspect, I think the upgrade continually aspect is an incredibly likely and maybe obvious? conclusion. I don't know how to change that being the case, but when they DON'T upgrade more than they have, it makes little sense to me. They either want upgrades or not. They can't think they're already perfect. That being said I really like the Cyber Men, and the reveals and environment of the ending story there was pretty awesome. I too agree that Clara should have been a Cyberman. It would have made much more sense. Good call.
Nardle being a cyborg is so inconsequential that I don't even think I ever thought about it or realized. I even completely forgot he was there and I watched these episodes 2 months ago
I found the Mondasian Cybermen chilling in Capaldi's last episodes. The patients in particular, an existence of "PAIN" as an upgrade really chilled me to the core.
imagine orphan 55 but with cyberman instead that climate change and a resource war left the earth so bad people became cybermen think it would have been a far more chilling story
As a big fan of transhumanism, I've always loved the cybermen as a great cautionary tale and this video gets spot on what I loved about the early reboot episodes growing up.
Nightmare in silver works that the human drive led them to wanting to be the most powerful they can be and they didn't stop, which is such a human concept, until they got it.
Classic series cybermen were indeed more chilling, sneaky and stealthy. Then they just became another stompy robot. Even the new series Mondassian model didn’t escape deafening stomping hydraulics.
In Nightmare in Silver the Cybermen became an analogue (or is that digital) of the Borg - same concept instant adaptation - taken to the extreme they would be unstoppable as no matter what you throw at them they adapt / upgrade. I thought that was just lazy writing.
The Cybermen are actually a weirdly specific enemy. The idea that they are a dystopian version of Human 2.0 is cool, but if you pick up that concept and run with it then you're likely to find that every Cyberman story are going to have the same themes. What makes us human? How different would we have to become before we stopped being human? Are the things that make us human objectively good things? If you could remove humanity's flaws, wouldn't that be an improvement? Those are all interesting philosophical questions, but equally they are not so interesting that it wouldn't get boring if that were the focus of every Cyberman episode.
We definitely need a return to form for the Cybermen, they're amazing when we can clearly tell they're an upgraded version of us because it's something that is believable in terms of our future, the Mondasian Cybermen stick with me as a favourite design because they have such an uncomfortable nearly human but more robotic voice, and they retain many human features, most New Who representations take away from the physical side of things, while Rise of the Cybermen and Age of Steel just about get away with it as we see the conversion process. I'm really hoping we get some Cybermen stories in the same vein as the revered Cybermen stories from Big Finish, stories like Spare Parts manage Cybermen in a way that New Who needs to take lessons from.
the cybermen of rtd era gave me nightmares - a week of sleepless nights after rise of steel/age of the cybermen, mostly involving myself and my family getting upgraded - but i absolutely loved how they were done
It's quite ironic that the Davies era truly understood the Daleks but the use of the Cybermen was quite underwhelming the only exception being Rise of the Cybermen/Age of steel and Moffat truly understood the horrors of the Cybermen but his use of the Daleks was underwhelming the only exception in my opinion being The witch's familiar
I've always thought that the cybermen are a much better villain then the daleks and I don't know why they've always seemed more interesting then the daleks and every time there's a new cybermen story it makes me happy as I would consider the cybermen my favourite villain of doctor who
It's actually such a sin that in 'the doctor falls' the doctor didn't face off and try to interact with/stop/morally challenge the cybermen. In that second half they became "generic sci-fi robot" again since the doctor was just hiding from them and they only showed up in droves for him to run around blowing them up. What they did with bill in that episode was great but if it had focused more on the villain they'd amazingly set up and actually let them shine rather than "ooo look at the master fanscervice", and putting them on a slow paced, low stakes farm for them to just talk to each other for the majority of the episode it would've been even more horrific/poignant/memorable than nightmare in steel.
I’ve always thought that it might be interesting to see them address something like the boat paradox. A boat is slowly upgraded and has old parts replaced but eventually there is nothing left of the original so is it still the original. I would love a story where someone went through to rebuild someone who had been tuned into a cyberman. Slowly tracking down parts until eventually they have to track down the cyberman version of whoever was transformed for the last few chunks of brain or other parts.
The Mondasian cybermen are the only Doctor Who monster which genuinely give me nightmares. I can't explain it but there is something so revolting about them. They are like zombies but worse. Reanimated corpses which don't realise they're dead. Idk.
I think the latest cybermen were only fitting in nightmare in silver because of the storyline. After many years of war at some point they become unstoppable...
I always thought the writers struggled, particularly during the RTD era to construct stories around them beyond the typical 'Convert lots of people into Cybermen', they couldn't keep going back to that one story and seemingly found it impossible at first to think of anything else they could or would plausibly do. Moffat's shift into making the Cybermen scary not because of what they were but what they could do (consistently upgrade and get stronger, utilise dead bodies) did make for some more interesting stories but it was the Series 12 finale that really finally brought a classic for the ages story involving the Cybermen.
"The Doctor Falls" has that one scene where the doctor shouts all his victories against the Cybermen as he blows them up. I think there's something very cool about that. The Cybermen happen everywhere there's people, which make them an unstoppable CONCEPT than a race or species, meaning that they will never stop existing because they will appear and come about somewhere in the universe. The doctor puts himself as the reason why they will never win, the man that stops the monsters. The one smarter than any cyber computer, who's selflessness and emotions that the Cybermen lack is what brings about his victory against them.
As a Warhammer 40000 fan I love Nightmare In Silver. There’s so many parallels between the Necrons and Cybermen, once I got into 40K the cyber conversion factory from Rise of The Cybermen was how I pictured Necron Biotransferance. To me, Nightmare in Silver reads like the story of an Imperial Guard regiment accidentally awakening a tomb world, from their fatigues, to their lasguns, to using Exterminatus on the the planet for the sake of the greater human empire, the humans feel straight out of 40K. Likewise we see a full on necron style silver tide of near indestructible soulless former people who keep reanimating no matter how many are killed. It’s an incredible necron story, as far as human perspective ones go but I’ll certainly agree it’s no Cybermen story.
I had a dream once of a fully fledged doctor who episode that doesn't exist. Took place on what essentially was a cyberman refugee vessel. One that contained the damaged and discarded cyberman that were left behind from the doctors various encounters with them. The vessel was taken over by an outdated cyber controller, who overpowered the cyber wardens that managed it with the help of the defective units.
I've loved the cyber boys when I figured out how they were made My tier list of Doctor Who villains is: Cyber men and Master are in close first Weeping angels Darleks
honestly the 'phones bad' message is pretty hackneyed. people used to draw cartoons depicting subway carriages full of people reading the newspaper, making exactly the same point as the current ones about phones
I suspect there are cut script pages doing with cyberNardole exactly as you suggest, but the two parter is just so jam-packed that it got back-burnered.
Nuwho's Cybus cybermen was a brilliant way to recreate the Cyberman from the ground up. It built on the idea that, as humanity is a possible evolutionary end result on countless world across time and space, then so Cybermen of one form or another will evolve as part transhumanism and connect to a greater whole.
The mondasian cybermen has the best design of them all. Them looking like a human but not at all at the same time. It's so much better than a iron man suit. And with the human hands still being there is the best for me. Imagine getting choked by cold, human hands but looking into the eyes of a machine. Truly Chilling.
peter capaldi was a great doctor. i loved that finale. it was a good one. i really love twists like that where you see the origins and it is ironic how much the doctor played a hand. just like the story with the dalek supreme leader.
I find Nightmare in Silver to be the episode that embraces what the Cybermen strive for, the rejection of all that makes a human, human. The end result of that is the elimination of humanity, and elimination of the need for a limited human body. The human body can only be "upgraded" so much before it ceases to be all together.
This man predicted the series 12 finale
And all the other times they didn’t play second fiddle to another villain.
@@Shadowkey392 And it's the same one for the THIRD time after setting them up to be the big bad whilst also juggling a tonne of story threads.
Also, Cyber Lord is a Better name than Cyber Masters
Unfortunately the Cyber Time Lords, did absolutely nothing. Quite literally just stood there while the Master did cheesy badly paced talking.
It's genuinely impressive how so many great ideas can be smushed together into a big, messy pile of garbage
Yeah, He did. I noticed that while looking back through his videos. I thought, "gee he was on the mark there!"
The Bill/Rise of the Mondasian Cybermen is the most disturbing cyberman episode I've seen. Seeing the 'evolution' of them and the ones in the hospital shaking and saying "Pain! Pain! Pain!" only to have their voices muted bc no one wants to hear it or seems to care. Truly frightening!
Kill meeeee, kill meeeeee, kill meeeee
@@LukasOfTheLight I think people were complaining more about 'the doctor falls' than 'world enough and time'
@@LukasOfTheLight Alright i guess
It absolutely terrifies me!
I love that episode and the cybermen but i trully despise bill as a companion i just find her whole character as grating and boring
If they did asylum of the daleks with cybermen. Imagine seeing all the 60s and 80s versions all there as well 😱
EXACTLY. And The Cyber Shades and broken mats.
I need that in my life
That actually sounds amazing
Honestly that would’ve made it soooo much better
I honestly love the 60s ones unironicly
I feel that 'World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls' was the one story in Modern Who where the Cybermen were done right and lived up to their true potential. The first part explored the disturbing body horror aspect while the second part explored their unrelenting and never-ending nature. Yes, there maybe were other things going on but that was because it was Capaldi's last stand so of course it would focus on other elements besides them. Plus, I thought it felt more like a Cybermen story than a Master story since the threat of the Cybermen looms over whilst the two Masters are just mere supporting players.
Rise of the cybermen/age of steel has them KILL humans instead of upgrade them. Giving them a one-word catchphrase was a bad idea - unless delete became deleting the personality of the target, making them a mindless drone, free to upgrade
The yhumolp
Uh oh thy become yfyg the vg
Hi hoady you or someone
Wow
@@theeorigin4651 We wiill surviiiive
They done a Spider-man 3 on it though and tried to make it a Master/Missy story too. There should only be one villain as when The Master/Missy come along its like they're the real bad guys and the Cybermen are just things that shoot you. I liked it a lot but I think it could have been a lot better. I wish they didn't have the Cybermen advance to the modern versions by the end either.
I forgot Nardole was a cyborg until it was mentioned in this video, I think that does say a lot about him.
I think Nardole is actually Dorium Maldovar. When they see the blue guy who kills Bill in world enough and time, he says 'i should go back to being blue' or something along those lines.
@@timbecile7006 Yeah but they're almost complete opposites even personality wise.
Honestly, I never made the Nardole/Cybermen foil connection, that's amazing. I really wish they'd gone somewhere with that.
@@bigfatcarp93 Me either but yes it would have made for an interesting thought-provoking narrative to explore it, after all, in many ways, the difference between him and the cybermen is one of degree. But hearing his views on it would also make for excellent character development as it would reveal what he views as the most important aspects of humanity we all have that line where we would stand up and say no enough is enough and it reveals a lot about what a person values.
Seraphina I think they shied away from this because as the series went on the doctor talks about how nardole became more human as he reconstructed his body on the cheap
Jesus Christ do I want to see Asylum of the Cybermen now.
Cameron Joseph Videos would it be like Asylum of the Dales where it is one unstoppable force against a whole bunch of people who mostly die
@@epicgamertimes6773 When does that happen in Asylum of the Daleks. Literally only one person dies in that story.
Have a bunch of dead bodies with their brains chopped out lying around
could make a horrifying R rated spin off.
The Cybermen have great potential for body-horror, but they get a bit hamstrung with what they can get away with showing.
A reference to the for king and country perhaps?
you pointed out my one frustration with the series 12 finale. the cybermen finally had this amazing story and i was loving it, and then the master came and highjacked it and the cybermen just became footsoldiers for the master again :(
It's irony since Missy created Cybermen for the Doctor
Where the Master created Cybermen against the Doctor.
The cyber men are such a gorgeous original sci-fi idea that adapts so beautifully to each generation that I can’t help but view them as my favourite while still being incredibly underwhelmed by how they are portrayed now.
gorgeous is such a stubagful word. That as well as "I adore"
Sebastian G. Haha that’s a very good point! I do watch the majority of his content so maybe I picked up a few of his mannerisms ;)
@@MrAllallalla i adore this gorgeous comment
I have mixed feelings on this.
The Cybermen *were* an original idea in the 1960s. But I do feel nowadays that the philosophical ideas of transhumanism have been pretty thoroughly explored in fiction over the last fifty years, indeed we're now getting to the point where those same ideas are crossing over from the "fi" to the "sci", in that people are increasingly treating it as a relevant real-world issue in our actually existing future, rather than a mildly diverting what-if thought experiment about some hypothetical world.
Maybe I'm just not imaginitive enough to think of fresh, interesting angles to approach the central idea from. I think the idea alluded to in the video, that upgrading could become a form of rescue for our species in a dystopian future, is relatively unexplored next to the classic "humans enslaved by their own machines" trope. It's always in the bad times that people turn to previously unthinkable options. Make that episode, someone.
I think Chibnall saw this and thought
“Timelord, Cyberman....Timelord....Cyberman.............Timelord......Cyberman........Cyberlord.....Hmmm....”
"Cyber-Masters!"
"But, that doesn't make sen-
"CYBERMASTERS!!!!"
Gallifrey Still Stands... Time is immaterial to Time Lords.
Who knows?
I like how they gave Cybermen super speed and then immediately got rid of it once they realized how powerful it made them
Yeah those Cybus conversion chambers traumatised me. Every time I see a clip from rise of the cybermen or age of steel, my heart rate goes up. Good job Russel T Davis
Deranged Tangerine as a ten year old I was absolutely traumatised by the scenes especially the first one with that lion sweeps tonight music playing
Nightmare in Silver seems to have turned the Cybermen into the Borg from Star Trek, and then crossed with Aliens, which, as you said, completely misses the point of them. A lot of Dr Who episodes only half dive into the themes they are presenting. Especially in the Moffat era, it was all about getting an emotional response by having some major twist or tragedy. He was much better at writing individual episodes than at running the show, in my opinion.
Its is ironic though, the new cybermen are a ripoff of the borg which were a ripoff of the mondasian cybermen
Meh... Ikind of feel like Dr Who left its old sci-fi roots for drama a long time ago. When not just the person with the doctor at the time but the viewers were patronised by the ‘Timywimy’ line its going to be a hard road going back to the true sci fi horror.
You are wrong. The point of them IS because they are constantly upgrading and adapting. That's their entire gimmick. They were upgrading themselves before the borg was even an idea on a peace of paper so i don't know why people are always having a go at them for doing what they supposed to do: upgrade.
They have not become a ripoff of the borg at all. How many times have they been updated and upgraded over the years? They had nearly ten different stories before the borg even showed up and nearly every time they were uodated in some way. The whole idea of them is that they are constantly adapting to survive and that's what NiS did.
I feel like calling them borg is just a lame excuse to hate on them because they've always been trying to overcome their weaknesses.
Yeah both the Cybermen and the Borg are both cybernetic humanoid monstrosities but the underlying themes are quite different.
The Borg are presented almost as a dark mirror of the Federation. They both are comprised of many different races, pool together their greatest minds and resources all for the common good and every new species added could make the lives of billions better. It's their methods that set them radically apart and part of the reason why they're so disturbing to the Federation. Their power and technology makes them almost a force of nature when battling against and even when they're defeated you know they'll just come back stronger.
Both have big body horror and emotionless monster elements but themes are different. The Cybermen, as mentioned above, are about the over-reliance on technology and the tragedy over how much people are willing to sacrifice in the name of survival. The Borg are about relentless expansion and self improvement at the expense of everything else, an overwhelming force, alien and mysterious yet disturbingly familiar.
@@invinciblereason1618 Also,The Borg were originally supposed to be more insectoid style creatures like the parasite in an early TNG episode but because of budgetary constraints,they were changed into the zombielike cyborgs marauders we now know and fear/love them as!Ironically,the Go`auld were changed from Grey aliens in the movie to buglike parasites with God Complexes in SG-1.
I agree with you about Series 10 finale up to a point, I feel it strikes the balance between the many threads rather effectively and it is one of my favourite stories because of that. However, I recognise how frustrating it is when the episode shows such a chilling and profound understanding of the Cybermen, only to focus on other factors.
Great comment as always Joe! On rewatch I actually think it's entered my top 3 finales - the high concept of a blackhole spaceship is worth the entrance fee alone. My issue with it doesn't even impact my enjoyment of it, I just think of it more as a Master story rather than a Cyberman story. If I'm looking at it just for Cybermen it doesn't give me what I want but I agree it's great.
@@FullFatVideos To me the first half is a definite Cyberman story, it laser focuses on them and gets to the heart of the concept. The second half is both Master and 12th Doctor story.
I think the issue with the Cybermen in the finales of series 8 and 10 is that they're just tools to develop Missy and 12's relationship (which is fine because that is an incredible story) instead of villain's on their own while I agree the direction Moffat took them in was fantastic and long overdue it would have been great to get an episode like Dark water or World enough and time in an earlier series
I always thought Doctor Falls would have been way more interesting if Bill was seen in Cyberman form more often. I know her appearing as a human is important to her character, but it would have been cool, even if just for one or two scenes, to have her talking with the Doctor in her Cyberman form.
Zarbi Xii completely ruined it for me tbh. The most horrific element of cyber-conversion was removed, minimising the impact of her conversion at every term.
Watch how Bill post-conversion walks though, her steps are stiff and stompy, like a Cyberman's. I think it was a nice touch.
I figured it was just us experiencing how The Doctor saw her. He saw right through it and didn't even acknowledge the Cyberman exterior and connected directly with the human woman underneath. Because it was kind. If he looked at her differently, she would feel it, it would hurt her. So he just chose to see only Bill.
I thought it was nice.
Another wasted opportunity: One of the Doc's best companions (Lethbridge Stewart) was turned into a Cyberman. He is only shown once as a cameo helping him and his daughter mildly. Knowing that it was one of his best human friends that made that choice should make Doc think about his effect on his companions and the loss that the Cybermen themselves are representing for others
I always thought the ending of "The Age of Steel" was really grim. Letting all those people realise who they are and what happened to them was horrifying. And I always thought The Doctor should have shown more emotion about it.
But we all can never forget that one cyberman who made us all cry
Rest in peace handles
PS I don't think he ever did patch the phone into the tardis.
Lol! No; Clara had to, at the End!
Chinball: "They now want to become robots now,"
Always liked Age of Steel as an alternative universe origin. The only downside of it is the design of the Cybermen they went far too robotic and once the horror of the zombie population being upgraded subsides then the final form is a bit Naff. That being said its still a heck of an episode and does most things correctly for a very good cyber story. Great Video!
Gerald Ward I actually quite like the robotic designs, I know I’m in the minority on this but I find the idea of them only take. The brain even more chilling
@@igglpggl6109 Especially since the guy who made the Cybus Cybermen hated how fragile the human body could be. Makes some sense.
Yeah, whenever the cyberman are shown, they just look like iron man suits. It's especially ridiculous in the S8 finale, where every human that ever lived is now a cyberman. Even if their remains are like one finger bone, making them 99.9% metal.
@@christopherbennett5858 @IgglPggl defo good points on that. lumic's brain was the one part of him left that was working and not sick. For sure his end result made that the centrepiece of the new species.
My issue with Rise/Age is that it's not a willing conversion in some part. I feel like the Mondasian Cybermen (particularly in stories like WEAT/Spare Parts) are a far better concepts. There is actually an idea that the conversion process is something people wanted to start, and it slowly erodes their humanity as people fall further and further into upgrading to escape their shitty conditions. It's a tragic tale that goes beyond simply "madman wants immortality" - it's them taking adaptation into their own hands and losing themselves in the process
Ngl when the human cybermen of petes world see themselves and go insane it’s honestly the saddest scene in doctor who you see the whole race perish in pain just because they could see and feel who they’d become every cyber scream is just a person screaming themselves to death at the moment they saw they were stuck in a cold metal body that didn’t eat feel or breathe
Honestly, I had no clue Nardole was a Cyborg until you mentioned it...
Yeah, they really missed the opportunity there. Damn.
Yessss. I LOVE the Cybermen, probably my favourite Who villain. It sucks that they haven't had many great stories in New Who. Their concept is so tragic and terrifying at the same time.
That's crazy! I LITERALLY just finished watching your Peter quill video!
Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel reminds me a lot of MGS4 as in that soldiers get nanomachines that suppress the trauma of killing people and when it gets turned off at the end of the first chapter all the soldiers get overcome by grief and misery.
I wish The Doctor Falls was better, World Enough and Time was great imo and then it just fell flat. The same with all the Moffat finales.
Watching this on the bus and there is a round blue night light behind me that reflected off my phone screen. My emotions and bowels are definitely working 😨🤖
Wish they would make "spare parts" into an episode or two easily the best Cyberman story since tomb
Well there was Yvonne.
Poor
poor
Yvonne.
@@HashbrownMashup Yvonne looking pretty damn good in Friday night dinner and toast of London! Must of had a cyber downgrade
I love World Enough and Time + The Doctor Falls. It’s a great watch and although you don’t see much of the humans before they’re converted, that scene in the hospital where the patients plead for their death to Bill really gives you the same feeling as the dying cyberman scene from Rise of the Cyberman/Age of Steel
You must be excited for the “darker” turn of season 12 and the return of the Cybermen with Mary Shelly’s Frankenstein as the backdrop?
Forget just the Modern series, I feel like the latter half of the Classic series also utilized the Cybies incredibly poorly. I think, with the Chibnall era apparently going in a relatively more experimental direction, I think we need a straight up horror story with the Cybermen. Do something that’s scary *primarily,* like Blink.
I personally feel like the strongest showcase of the Cybermen as something genuinely horrifying is World Enough and Time. It was immediately undercut by The Doctor Falls making them featureless flunkies again.
I’d love to see something in the vein of “Dalek” or “Resolution”; revitalize the Cybermen by doing a story about *one.* ONE Cyberman, not even necessarily anything to do with an action plot.
Excellent point about Nardole, by the way. Such a waste to never capitalize on his cyborg nature in a Cyberman story.
Interested to see how a one cyberman story would work. I'd have thought that idea would better lend itself to a 'kill everything' villain like the Daleks
The whole point of the cybermen is they make you like them. Idk how you could only have one.
IamMrRand00m953 By putting them in a weak or vulnerable position where they’re unable to convert other people, easy. It’s been done a few times before (eg. “The Silver Turk”, a really good 8th Doctor audio story) and it’s worked pretty much every time.
Cyberwoman?
@@ender7278 Cyberwoman was absolute trash tho
But that funeral scene in The Next Doctor though...
I hadn’t thought about Nardole or Asylum being more suited to Cybermen good shout
I’d never even considered asylum of the cybermen before and now I can’t think about anything else.
The issue the Cyberman have is fundamentally, they kind of always been the "Not-Daleks" Heck the only reason they got to have a heyday in Second Doctor's era was because they couldn't use the Daleks. And as much as people make a big deal of the converting as what makes them unique and the revived era lost that, even the classic series never used it much. It barely shows up in their golden age of Second Doctor. Of their four appearances "Tomb" is the only one to really focus on conversion and "Moonbase" and explicitly have them want to invade Earth for it's non-human resources. And then conversion doesn't come up again until "Attack" in the 80's! The series as a whole has never really figured out what to do with these guys. The best we've ever really done is use them to lend importance to an episode is, but at the same the Cybermen are not so important that the episode has to focus completely on them.
And then you get stuff like the comics where some writers does a: "what if they were the most bad-ass species?" Even though their other big thing is being on the verge of extinction, or thought extinct. With that theme showing up in some form in six of their nine classic series appearances.
I really liked peter capaldi's last story. Genuinely a great cybermen episode
excellent story!
6:23, “...at every turn...” That was a nice touch, boys.
Damn... I'm watching this on my phone too
You say, as if that matters at all
i really want to see a story were they explore the transition from human to cyberman. World Enough and Time went into it, but only explored the physical changes, what if instead it started with just wanting to remove pain, or sadness, and it just kept going form there. What would someone who couldn't experience those things be like.
this is why i want a full season where the cybermen are the primary antagonists
BOY DO I MISS DAVID TENNANT!
How did I just find your channel?! Your Whiplash video was phenomenal, and every video else so far. A well earned subscriber my friend, keep it up ❤️
I think a modern update, as you partly discussed, should focus on a heathy use of machines vs an obsession.
I disagree with World Enough and Time and The Doctor Falls being a Master story. I think that was what Moffet knew people were expecting so the twist in the The Doctor Falls was that it was a Cyberman story, that both Masters end up having to flee with the Doctor when he makes it so Cybermen think they could upgrade Time Lords
I like the story idea of humans willingly or enthusiastically becoming cybermen. Have no deception, cohersion, or delusion. Give the upgrading peoples a really compelling argument which is not a straw man and then see what the doctor does. Likely the enviroment challange already mentioned.
I've always liked that no matter if The Doctor completely gets rid of the cybermen whether it be The Mondasians or Cybus Industries they'd always evolve back into existence as if humanities goal of forever improving is a curse and the result being the Cybermen being inevitable and the doctor just delays the inevitable
The cyber men scared the shit out of me when I was a kid.
Finally!
Other people besides me prefer the Cybermen as villains for the Doctor!
The Daleks are almost too cute. And the preponderance of LOUSY storylines (the Third Doctor did them NO FAVORS!) reduced their malevolence. THey had a brief rebound with Genesis of the Daleks but went back to being silly. That said, Daleks were best in the 1960s. I thought the Cybermen were best in the 1960s, too, but they still have that malevolence and creepiness cyborgs have always had for me.
9 had great Dalek stories too imho. I just love the concept of the Cybermen more
10:00 There're canonically loads of different factions/species of Mechanoids and Techno-organics in the Whoniverse... I never really questioned it myself.
My favourite Cybermen line, which reminds me of that famous line from the Controller in Tomb, is from Doomsday - "... Cybermen will remove fear, Cybermen will remove sex, and class, and colour, and creed, you will become identical, you will become like us."
I really enjoy Series 10 and was so surprised that I've never even thought of the potential Nardole could have in the series finale. A brilliant point, and top video as always - keep it up lads
*" At every turn "*
*Shows Cyberman doing a 180 degree angle with it's head.*
I see what you did there.
We definitely need more Doctor Who villains like the Cybermen. I have no qualm whatsoever with stating that the Mondasian Cybermen from World Enough and Time was quite easily one of the stand-out sci-fi villains I've seen in the past decade. And it's funny to think that if you took a concept from 1966 and basically gave the costume department the resources needed to give it an "upgrade", as it were, you end up with such a terrifying presence! I agree with this video completely, Doctor Who could do so much with these guys now!
Asylum of Insane Cybermen? Holy fuck that'd be terrifying.
Although I agree with the whole, body horror, emotion issue aspect, I think the upgrade continually aspect is an incredibly likely and maybe obvious? conclusion.
I don't know how to change that being the case, but when they DON'T upgrade more than they have, it makes little sense to me. They either want upgrades or not. They can't think they're already perfect.
That being said I really like the Cyber Men, and the reveals and environment of the ending story there was pretty awesome.
I too agree that Clara should have been a Cyberman. It would have made much more sense. Good call.
Nardle being a cyborg is so inconsequential that I don't even think I ever thought about it or realized. I even completely forgot he was there and I watched these episodes 2 months ago
cant wait to see what season 12 is doing with the cyberman seemingly as the main villain for the season
I found the Mondasian Cybermen chilling in Capaldi's last episodes. The patients in particular, an existence of "PAIN" as an upgrade really chilled me to the core.
The idea that Chibnall would want to return anything to its roots is just comical
Rise of the cyberman/Age of Steel aged magnificently. It's like demolition man. They only got more relevant with time
imagine orphan 55 but with cyberman instead that climate change and a resource war left the earth so bad people became cybermen think it would have been a far more chilling story
3:47 man Tennant was great. Did he ever have a line delivery that wasn’t completely awesome?
I'd recommend checking out the big finish stories Spare Parts and The Silver Turk, they both explore great cyberman concepts 👍
As a big fan of transhumanism, I've always loved the cybermen as a great cautionary tale and this video gets spot on what I loved about the early reboot episodes growing up.
Nightmare in silver works that the human drive led them to wanting to be the most powerful they can be and they didn't stop, which is such a human concept, until they got it.
Classic series cybermen were indeed more chilling, sneaky and stealthy. Then they just became another stompy robot. Even the new series Mondassian model didn’t escape deafening stomping hydraulics.
The Cybermen gave me nightmares for months after the first time I saw one of thier episodes. Not even the Daleks got me as scared
In Nightmare in Silver the Cybermen became an analogue (or is that digital) of the Borg - same concept instant adaptation - taken to the extreme they would be unstoppable as no matter what you throw at them they adapt / upgrade. I thought that was just lazy writing.
The Cybermen are actually a weirdly specific enemy. The idea that they are a dystopian version of Human 2.0 is cool, but if you pick up that concept and run with it then you're likely to find that every Cyberman story are going to have the same themes. What makes us human? How different would we have to become before we stopped being human? Are the things that make us human objectively good things? If you could remove humanity's flaws, wouldn't that be an improvement? Those are all interesting philosophical questions, but equally they are not so interesting that it wouldn't get boring if that were the focus of every Cyberman episode.
didn’t read, but that’s a lot of text so here’s a thumbs up 👍
The Age of Steel Two-Parter is the best the cybermen have been period. It's a fantastic story and was my introduction to the cybermen as a kid.
0:09 "While there's no question that the daleks are The Doctor's greatest foe"
Master:.. (cries inside)
We definitely need a return to form for the Cybermen, they're amazing when we can clearly tell they're an upgraded version of us because it's something that is believable in terms of our future, the Mondasian Cybermen stick with me as a favourite design because they have such an uncomfortable nearly human but more robotic voice, and they retain many human features, most New Who representations take away from the physical side of things, while Rise of the Cybermen and Age of Steel just about get away with it as we see the conversion process.
I'm really hoping we get some Cybermen stories in the same vein as the revered Cybermen stories from Big Finish, stories like Spare Parts manage Cybermen in a way that New Who needs to take lessons from.
Man, I forgot that the ‘Nightmare in Silver’ Cybermen had hyper-speed
I've got to say I really appreciate your doctor who videos. They're always good fun and interesting to watch
the cybermen of rtd era gave me nightmares - a week of sleepless nights after rise of steel/age of the cybermen, mostly involving myself and my family getting upgraded - but i absolutely loved how they were done
It's quite ironic that the Davies era truly understood the Daleks but the use of the Cybermen was quite underwhelming the only exception being Rise of the Cybermen/Age of steel and Moffat truly understood the horrors of the Cybermen but his use of the Daleks was underwhelming the only exception in my opinion being The witch's familiar
I've always thought that the cybermen are a much better villain then the daleks and I don't know why they've always seemed more interesting then the daleks and every time there's a new cybermen story it makes me happy as I would consider the cybermen my favourite villain of doctor who
It's actually such a sin that in 'the doctor falls' the doctor didn't face off and try to interact with/stop/morally challenge the cybermen. In that second half they became "generic sci-fi robot" again since the doctor was just hiding from them and they only showed up in droves for him to run around blowing them up. What they did with bill in that episode was great but if it had focused more on the villain they'd amazingly set up and actually let them shine rather than "ooo look at the master fanscervice", and putting them on a slow paced, low stakes farm for them to just talk to each other for the majority of the episode it would've been even more horrific/poignant/memorable than nightmare in steel.
I’ve always thought that it might be interesting to see them address something like the boat paradox. A boat is slowly upgraded and has old parts replaced but eventually there is nothing left of the original so is it still the original. I would love a story where someone went through to rebuild someone who had been tuned into a cyberman. Slowly tracking down parts until eventually they have to track down the cyberman version of whoever was transformed for the last few chunks of brain or other parts.
The Mondasian cybermen are the only Doctor Who monster which genuinely give me nightmares. I can't explain it but there is something so revolting about them. They are like zombies but worse. Reanimated corpses which don't realise they're dead. Idk.
Love that Lumic and Tennant both showed up in Goblet of Fire as Barty Crouch and Barty Crouch Jnr
I think the latest cybermen were only fitting in nightmare in silver because of the storyline. After many years of war at some point they become unstoppable...
I always thought the writers struggled, particularly during the RTD era to construct stories around them beyond the typical 'Convert lots of people into Cybermen', they couldn't keep going back to that one story and seemingly found it impossible at first to think of anything else they could or would plausibly do.
Moffat's shift into making the Cybermen scary not because of what they were but what they could do (consistently upgrade and get stronger, utilise dead bodies) did make for some more interesting stories but it was the Series 12 finale that really finally brought a classic for the ages story involving the Cybermen.
Rise of the cyber men absolutely shat me up as a kid
"The Doctor Falls" has that one scene where the doctor shouts all his victories against the Cybermen as he blows them up. I think there's something very cool about that.
The Cybermen happen everywhere there's people, which make them an unstoppable CONCEPT than a race or species, meaning that they will never stop existing because they will appear and come about somewhere in the universe.
The doctor puts himself as the reason why they will never win, the man that stops the monsters. The one smarter than any cyber computer, who's selflessness and emotions that the Cybermen lack is what brings about his victory against them.
11:26 I was laughing so hard when I watched the new year special, I was like “it’s a garbage darlek, literally!”
As a Warhammer 40000 fan I love Nightmare In Silver. There’s so many parallels between the Necrons and Cybermen, once I got into 40K the cyber conversion factory from Rise of The Cybermen was how I pictured Necron Biotransferance. To me, Nightmare in Silver reads like the story of an Imperial Guard regiment accidentally awakening a tomb world, from their fatigues, to their lasguns, to using Exterminatus on the the planet for the sake of the greater human empire, the humans feel straight out of 40K. Likewise we see a full on necron style silver tide of near indestructible soulless former people who keep reanimating no matter how many are killed. It’s an incredible necron story, as far as human perspective ones go but I’ll certainly agree it’s no Cybermen story.
I had a dream once of a fully fledged doctor who episode that doesn't exist. Took place on what essentially was a cyberman refugee vessel. One that contained the damaged and discarded cyberman that were left behind from the doctors various encounters with them. The vessel was taken over by an outdated cyber controller, who overpowered the cyber wardens that managed it with the help of the defective units.
I've loved the cyber boys when I figured out how they were made
My tier list of Doctor Who villains is:
Cyber men and Master are in close first
Weeping angels
Darleks
honestly the 'phones bad' message is pretty hackneyed. people used to draw cartoons depicting subway carriages full of people reading the newspaper, making exactly the same point as the current ones about phones
Daleks= metaphor for fascism
Cyber men= metaphor for communism.
I always thought that was pretty neat on the creators part 🙂
God I wish I could be converted into a Cyberman
The Cybermen are my alltime top favourite Dr Who villains and they are IMO the best ever recurring villains in Dr Who.
Full Fat Videos: Blow up a planet? It is ridiculous!
Warhammer 40k Inquisitor: Beg you pardon?
Listen to the Big Finish Audio "Spare Parts" - Age of Steel and WEAT reference it a rather lot.
I suspect there are cut script pages doing with cyberNardole exactly as you suggest, but the two parter is just so jam-packed that it got back-burnered.
Nuwho's Cybus cybermen was a brilliant way to recreate the Cyberman from the ground up. It built on the idea that, as humanity is a possible evolutionary end result on countless world across time and space, then so Cybermen of one form or another will evolve as part transhumanism and connect to a greater whole.
The mondasian cybermen has the best design of them all. Them looking like a human but not at all at the same time. It's so much better than a iron man suit. And with the human hands still being there is the best for me. Imagine getting choked by cold, human hands but looking into the eyes of a machine. Truly Chilling.
Watching this after The Haunting of Villa Diodati tells me that this fella half predicted Ascension of the Cybermen a year before it happened
One of the best cyberman doco's I've seen.
peter capaldi was a great doctor. i loved that finale. it was a good one. i really love twists like that where you see the origins and it is ironic how much the doctor played a hand. just like the story with the dalek supreme leader.
I find Nightmare in Silver to be the episode that embraces what the Cybermen strive for, the rejection of all that makes a human, human. The end result of that is the elimination of humanity, and elimination of the need for a limited human body. The human body can only be "upgraded" so much before it ceases to be all together.