Beethoven "Moonlight" Sonata: 1st Movement Masterclass
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2022
- A comprehensive course on the 1st movement of this sonata, including a detailed harmonic analysis: bit.ly/3gYSW4w
A comprehensive 3-hour course on the whole piece: bit.ly/3BuURr0
My performance of the piece: • Beethoven [Not A] "Moo...
In this lesson I discuss a few interpretational issues, and one of the most important ones - how do we approach a dotted rhythm of the melody versus triplets in the accompaniment? I was presenting arguments towards a version with more tension between a 16th note and the next strong beat. This is also supported by a historical practice of that time, as illustrated in the book of A. Christiani "The Principles of Expression", 1885: bit.ly/dottedr
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Without a doubt, this gent is an extremely good teacher- every little detail explained in great depth. I speak as a corporate Trainer, and piano student for last 19 years.
On the manuscript of this sonata, Beethoven wrote a few bars of the Don Giovanni opera, the part when the commandantore dies, and it sounds quite similar to this first mouvement.
Beethoven wrote this sonata in 1801, the year when he realized his growing hearing loss may lead to total deafness and never go away.
This is more like a funeral march to something he began (and will) lose and followed by hope in the second movement and the will to never give up and confront his destiny in the last.
Who is this man!? His emotional attunement with music, piano, art is sublime. His Insight comes with a weight that elicits creative inspiration and emotional movement.
So true! This guy is brilliant.
I soooo agree with your interpretation of this piece. Especially since I'm recently retired and in the beginning waning years of my life. 🙀
Loved it! Definitely funereal. I picture this as the composer sitting in a church during the funeral of a lover, loved one, or ...
Now i know how to play it the right way
The melancholy bass line at the beginning, the fixed bass in the middle part... Thank you for the very beautiful autumn and winter season.🎉
The thumbnail for this is GOLD.
Haha lol
@@DenZhdanovPianist Oh, how I love your sense of humor. I'm watching this again a year later, and the "Subscribe" bell chiming on the third G sharp at 3:03-3:06 cracked me up.
The alignment with Lynch’s masterpiece is indeed a perfect match, thank you once again for a brilliant tutorial, a lot of material to think about.
Thank you for the inspiration. I think your interpretation is right to the point. I always loved and felt that piece deeply, but that was a eye-opener. Hearing you speak about the character of the repetions in the middle voice, the lines in the soliloqui of Shakespeares Macbeth came to my mind "Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, Creeps in this petty pace from day to day, To the last syllable of recorded time. .." (The rendition of Orson Welles is my favourite one)
A great association, thanks!
Totally agree regarding the precise timing between the triplets and 3/8+1/8 (1/8 close to the last triplet note) which is surely chosen on purpose by LvB instead of choosing a grace note to the next bar many players perform incorrectly.
Actually I feel uncomfortable ignoring the positive effects (optimism) the upper melody LvB definitely introduced to break the darkness. At least it doesn’t have to be necessarily a drama leaving this earthly existence - depending on one’s beliefs.
Just my personal 2ct as an aged musician myself 🤷♀️
Appreciate the guidance in technique and assistance in interpretation.
I am a beginner-intermediate pianist, and I am coincidentally learning to play this piece. I can play it now, (not so good) but precisely the expressiveness is still hard for me. Your video helped me a lot to understand the most adequate expressiveness of the piece. I agree with you, and it seems to me that the most appropriate expressiveness corresponds to a profound and tragic emotion, (not too-romantic). I love your videos and help me a lot to play better the piano. Thanks for your teachings.
Happy that my points resonate with your feelings!😊 wish you a lot of fun and achievement on the musical path!
This is what I appreciate about your videos, Denis - you take time to interpret musical pieces, analyze them deeply and telling your version. A Story always behind each piece. Not just la la la on the keys like many people do, not even thinking what's behind the music they are playing.
Thank you ✨️
A powerful, provocative analysis. Thank you. I’ll reflect on applying it in practise.
Brilliant explanation!
J’aime beaucoup votre analyse bravo et merci pour ce partage
Wonderful lesson! Thanks!
I'm looking forward to the longer tutorial. I'm just beginning to explore this piece and your thoughts are illuminating. Considering the piece in terms of time and inevitability feels very true. Thank y ou.
Thank you for the feedback!
The link to the comprehensive 3-hour tutorial on the whole piece is in the description.
you’ve made me want to pull this out of my repertoire and play it very differently. great stuff!
Same here.. 🙂. Great stuff it is.
Denis,
Hello. I just recently started working on
this movement, and discovered your videos.
It seems like most of the comments are about a year old, so I am late to the discussion, but
I am grateful for videos like yours.
I was intrigued by your discussion, particularly regarding the timing of the triplets, as the melody is introduced. This has consumed
a considerable amount of my time, just
learning how to articulate those spots.
I look forward to your other videos, as
I am a humble student of the instrument!
Again, thank you for making the video!
Thanks for commenting! Yes, there are many videos which sadly didn’t get to “suggested” by CZcams so there is no discussion and they don’t gain many views. Check out my Tutorials playlist and subscribe for more video lessons!
Love Mulholland Drive. Thanks for mentioning it. I will watch it again.
I just discovered your videos and love them! You teach technique, approach and interpretation which is exactly the kind of instruction I have been looking for. You have given me a good deal to think about and work with/ work on and I thank you very much! I do agree that this piece is not about moonlight and romance but is rather a tragic piece. It reaches into the depths of despair. I have already subscribed and will be looking for more videos - may even try some of your courses. Thank you again!!
Love meeting people who are on the same wave! Welcome aboard and hope you’ll find more useful content here!
Great stuff!
Thank you very much for this , I always thought of it as a very sad piece and not at all romantic .
'Romantic' aesthetics at its core are very somber and even tragic. It's a period marked by a reevaluation of the meaning of life, a deep existential crisis in the face of a fate stronger than the vulnerable individual. The pinnacle of this style wasn't found in some of Chopin's early Waltzes or Brahms' lullaby, as many might believe, but in the later works of Chopin, Brahms, Bruckner, and Wagner. These works are as intricate and profound as the literature and philosophy of their time. It's unfortunate that modern times have often reduced the Romantic style to sentimental and cheesy salon-like entertainment.
This interpretation sounds accurate from what I've gathered but it's far more interesting to play with emotion and power. Makes a person want to play it repeatedly. I couldn't imagine telling a droning story of unavoidable horror very often.
Interesting point about Chopin. But of course Beethoven had another funeral march sonata. Also the 3rd movement influenced Chopin's Fantasy impromptu. The thing to do with this sonata (with which one becomes bored very quickly), is to sandwich it between two totally different pieces (eg between Bach's BWV 846 and the Pathetique sonata).Then it becomes a tolerable piece to play.
Many thanks to the youtube algorithm that made me find you, you are the greatest commenter of these things. I greatly appreciate all of your work.
The notification bell timing 😌
😎
Hi Denis, and thanks for this really well made video. I disagree tho, when you say that this piece don't have sentimentality, because i personally feel really strong the emptiness and the pain of a shattered heart. To me this piece has 3 voices, and i also agree with you when you say that the middle one express the passage of time (i've often pictured it in my mind as "the relentless life"). But, have you ever perceived the passage of time differently depending on how you feel? In my opinion, adding expressiveness in the middle voice, is better painting how it feels to fall into that abyss where the piece takes you moving forward. To me the 4rth bar (for example) is the falling, one step at the time (the 4 notes that goes down), into that void made of complete impotence and melancholy anger, which arises from the combination of the awareness of that impotence and the man's ingenuity to desire something impossible. And you really can't depict it witout the middle voice struggling into the falling. I'm so courious, to hear what you think about this, cos i'm seeing (as i'm approaching music more) that to me really couldn't be otherwise, i feel like i loose too much of the context, drying that aspect of the playing. Have a nice day and sorry for any mistakes, i'm not english ♥
This interpretation, for reference, is close to how i feel this piece. czcams.com/video/2H3EOEO2W7c/video.html
That’s a very good interpretation! I enjoyed it a lot!
And you feel the music very well by what you describe. It doesn’t necessarily make any of us wrong. I am not completely sure that even Lola Astanova is wrong by playing it like… well, the way she feels it. If demand of people is a criteria, she is definitely interpreting it better than me or Bernstein or almost anyone else😂
It’s useless to argue that someone’s subjective perception is better than of others - we don’t have any objective criteria to prove it’s really so. Music is not science but rather esoteric when it comes to interpretation: I can’t prove I am right but I will do everything to convince you that only I am right, using all the means from logical arguments to mental manipulations, and even calling you a talentless stump if you are not agreeing. That’s what most of teachers do.
I guess my definition of sentimentality is different of yours, since you mean substantially deep emotional experiences, while for me sentimentality is rather a surrogate of a real emotion.
Yes, as more mature as a musician you become, as more “it must be played only this way” you’d be. I have seen too much of this in my life, by having a few equally brilliant teachers simultaneously, who would give me absolutely contrary concepts and interpretational ideas, without a slightest attempt to accept that the other perspective might also be good, so I consciously try to be more open-minded in this regard, it’s not always easy though!
Wow, your insights are great! I have been thinking of writing a jazz arrangment of this piece...
I would definitely like to hear it!
@@DenZhdanovPianist Thank you! It would be for either a synthesizer or electric piano - so still a 'solo' piece. I heard this piece recently and it stayed in my mind, and then I began to hear it very 'differently'. I mean, it is the kind of piece which can be taken in many directions, I believe.
☞Thank you so much I'm learning this piece☜
Could you do a tutorial on moonlight sonata 3rd movement or the Appassionata sonata as well plssss🥰🥰
Coming in a couple of weeks. Full version of the course is already available, link in the description
Rubinstein recording is magnificent.
What I am particularly interested in, please (and what I am struggling to find an answer to), is how should one perceive/interpret the quaver-triplets and meter? It could have been notated in 12/8, so as to remove the need for all of the triplet (3's) above each group of notes - yet it's been written in 4/4?!
That’s strange, you probably have a fautly google, because I found bunch of answers in 3 minutes!😉
music.stackexchange.com/questions/110581/why-did-beethoven-use-triplets-for-the-whole-first-movement-of-moonlight-sonata
I very much like your analysis of how to interpret this piece. I want to try playing it as you suggest, but I'll have to unlearn a few things first. 😢
Unfortunately for me, I saw the Sesame Street episode where Victor Borge played this movement for the muppets. I can't get the image out of my mind of first the muppets, then Borge himself, falling asleep at the keyboard a few bars into the piece.
Haha yes funny things are sticky😅
Hi, can you do the subject how do not play mistake
That’s a very complex topic. Did you check a video about different memory types? That might be a good start.
czcams.com/video/216Dfu-Elzg/video.html
@@DenZhdanovPianist Thank you.
What is the correct time signature? I have one score that indicates cut time, but another shows common time.
Great question!
Both Henle and the first edition (1802) say cut time but… the holograph of the manuscript (available on imlsp) doesn’t have time signature for that movement at all!
I noticed that the score you're reading from shows this piece erroneously written in common time (4/4), when in fact, Beethoven himself wrote this alla breve (2/2), and the first edition (published during Beethoven's lifetime) also shows cut time.
This is just something else to consider, if one wishes to play this as Beethoven intended. Because the common tempo people like to perform this (40-48bpm to the quarter note) is just *way* too slow for cut time. It should be no slower than 60bpm to the quarter note, or rather, 30bpm per *half* note, because it's the half note that gets the beat here.
Therefore, this movement is actually a lot more difficult than people make it out to be. Now the trick is to make the triplet eighth notes to be as still and as soft as possible, placing more emphasis on the the bass octaves. Otherwise, it will indeed sound "too fast." However, by quieting down the triplets just right, the listener will feel the longer beats, and it will therefore feel adagio.
Thanks for bringing it up, a good point.
I am using Henle Verlag typically in my work, but for CZcams videos I prefer to use any public domain editions just to be safe.
The Alla Breve issue is discussed in the complete version of the master-class, this video here is just an excerpt.
Denis, I absolutely agree your interpretation. The 'Moonlight' nickname has done this piece a great disservice. It is not a romantic piece but a deeply tragic one.
What piano is used in these videos?
Kawai RX5
What’s tablet you use to read music?
iPad 12.9’
8:39 Did you mean to say "strong pros" instead of "strong cons"?
Oh yeah lol
I agree with your interpretation, this piece is hopelessly tragic. And this is why I never liked this Beethoven composition ( there is not many Beethoven pieces i like, if at all ,maybe his chamber music and nothing else). On the other hand what looks like sentimentality to us today a moon glow over a mountain lake might have evoked something else in 1900, like cold desolation and a place for ghosts and spirits to wander around in the winter. And the steady middle arpeggios might be the fog moving imperceptibly over the lake. Because in those days they still feared nature more than now.
'horrifying'- I've played this, first time 2004, and known it for so long. You have a VERY dark pair of perception glasses that you view this from. It is intense beauty within the depths of exploring our emotions. I taught it years ago to a child that went from foster home to foster home, he loved it because he could express and feel his emotions (nothing to do with horrifying death). I've felt depth of emotions I have no words for when playing this, but 'horrifying' and 'death', your worldview is colouring what you perceive.
Yeah, I see your point, I was expecting this comment. Since this piece has no title or description left by the composer, we can’t proof neither your nor mine point of view, so both of these views are condemned to be subjective.
But my point is that…
…people nowadays are usually uncomfortable reflecting on things like death and extreme mental states, but the most profound artists like Beethoven were not afraid to dig there.
Quite oppositely, artists explore these topics constantly ever since ancient greek tragedies, where the deepest possible shock WAS INTENDED, in order to lead a horrified audience member to the following catharsis. A Catharsis is the biggest prize one can hope to gain communicating with the true Art, but it comes for a price of not being afraid to leave one’s emotional and mental comfort zone.
Why do people believe that “Late Beethoven” steps with one leg in the romantic era already? It’s not only because he has started to hypertrophy the sonata form or used weird harmonies. Mainly it’s because the circle of his artistic ideas expanded too far away beyond classicism era towards XIX century Romanticism concepts, which are not only about “love” and salon sentimentality, as naïve people think, but first of all about an existential crisis of human being and a tragic shortness of human life. For example, Goethe’s Faust, Liszt’s Totentanz, Chopin’s Funeral March (well, a good amount of his works is extremely tragic, and not sentimental as many would think). Examples are countless.
Thus, if an artist speaks of such things it doesn’t mean they are depressed or live in a negative paradigm, it might just mean they are trying to be honest with the material they work on.
By the way, speaking about cultural roots of the Western society, both ancient philosophy and Christianity have got a mighty “death flavored” impulse that has affected our culture for thousands of years: violent death of Socratus and Jesus Christ respectively.
The great French poet, Paul Valery, once dat in the back of a lecture at the Sorbonne explicating one of his poems. At the end of the lecture, the professor recognized him and said, "Oh! M. Valery! I hope I did justice to your poem!" Paul Valery responded, "I never realized how great a poem it was until I listened to your interpretation." In every art form, the viewer, listener, or performer is also engaged in a creative enterprise. Your rendition is profound and beautiful, and has opened up a completely transformative approach to this Sonata.
Lovely please if u can read everything for more understanding
would you please play this in the key of D minor?
i'm about to pull my hair out,
is the piano buzzing
Moving commentary
You talk so much..
Do Play please.
Boring..
czcams.com/play/PLpAb_ZJzHV_3WLp0WGb-0Jt_SM9dtiVyX.html&si=GGtNa9Z9i6kCWLAU