The Incredible F1 Suspension So Good It Was Banned
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2020
- Around 30 years ago, some F1 teams developed an automatic, self-adjusting suspension system to control the car's ride height. The system was so good, it was banned from the sport soon after.
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Over 30 years ago, Formula One had some of the most incredible technology the sport has ever seen. The cars had automatic, self-adjusting suspension that would move up and down to increase grip and performance. It was extremely effective, until the technology was deemed too dangerous and banned from the sport.
But how can suspension trickery improve a car’s performance? How did a complex system like this even work with such old technology? And why doesn’t modern F1 cars use suspension like this?
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#F1 #ActiveSuspension #Driver61 - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I wish there was an unlimited class of car racing. Imagine the technology/systems that would be developed.
Hill climbs like pikes peak have way less aero rules and engine rules. I’m also thinking Time Attack unlimited classes might be the same thing. Not sure the money is there for either to draw in factory teams to innovate really cool stuff.
@@H3110NU If you had manufacturers racing in Time Attack unlimited you'd have some crazy ass cars but the series would implode quickly as costs to remain competitive skyrocket and more regulations to keep drivers safe were brought in. Basically you'd have a carbon copy of what happened in Group C
Can am is the closest I know to that
Many of you may die but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make
Tech should be unlimited. Team finance should be limited.
I wonder why there's no abbreviation for Active Suspension System
ASS🤤
AcSS
😂😂😂👍
@Fuck China 🤣🤣😂😂👍
Hydraulic Active Suspension System can be shorted to HAcSS, btw
Oh god, even coming to older f1 videos I’m still having porpoising explained to me 😂
Well duh
That’s because they’re trying to solve the same problems related to ride height and downforce generated underneath the car with the rules changes for 2022.
@@SooperKewl thanks for mansplaining. I was making a joke
@@rhysahkiin123 how do you know that's a dude? No need to be rude eh.
Ok
"notice the instability and roll of the car due to the conventional spring and damper suspension system"
hmmm yes, i did in fact absolutely without a doubt notice exactly how different it was
Oh absolutely . . .i mean it was just blindingly obvious that the first car had the suspension that was not the same as the second car . . . . . Pfffft, i mean, you could tell that straight away right . . . . . .
After watching the footage, I had to seek out this comment. I thought the same thing... The difference was SOOO huge... lol
@Jerson Cristuta the thing about unlimited racing is that people get hurt waaaaaaaay more because tech has legit gotten better and faster than drivers can handle. most of formula ruling is based on safety
@@flowmastaflam do it at Paul Ricard then, no safer place haha
@@flowmastaflam i'm sorry all i heard is that the drivers aren't that good ............
Fia: that's too good we'll ban it
"F1. Pinnacle of motorsports"
This was definitely on safety, not usual FIA things
We need tire battles. Not innovation
FIA: Is it from Ferrari? No? BAN IT!
@@redlightning2322 Ferrari podium 2002?
Just like Mercedes' DAS
I remember when this all went down, along with FIA banning other tech. It had nothing to do with safety, it was because some teams had become dominant to a point that there was no parity, which made for less exciting racing. There was a point when Ferrari was spending $300M/season on wind tunnel testing alone, which was more than most teams' entire program.
IMO probably bribes. Just like the chief of police or a judge will take bribes.
Banning revolutionary technology just to set an even playing field hinders innovation. What they should have done is to let all the teams use the technology, in that way, it removes any type of unfair advantage and at the same time evens out the playing field as well.
@@john-di1bn limitation is one of the key drivers of innovation.
Engineering an active suspension was insanely costly, that backmarker teams with their limited budget never could develop it. So to give them some sort of fighting chance and to have more than 6 cars on the lead lap when the race is over, it was banned !!!
as long as teams are provided with equal technology for testing, with today's budget cap rules these problems would be way less impactful. I often think about how regulations could become a bit more loose once again, to allow for crazy engineering stuff while also keeping the racing exciting and equal thanks to the budget cap. Wonder when we'll ever see active suspensions and such again
Apparently when Williams first put the suspension on the car, Mansell refused to drive it because it was so hard to feel the grip through the car, he was forced to just trust that the car wasn't sliding away from him. This was also the reason Mansell was so dominant compared to Patrese because if Mansell got through a corner without losing the back end, he'd just go faster the next lap until he found the limit whereas Patrese never fully trusted the car enough to drive like that
9:22. imagine your car doing a bunny hop over a spike road block
Is that it was banned
@@johnlee727 Banned From F1 =/= illegal by law
czcams.com/video/3KPYIaks1UY/video.html
@@srfrg9707 I didn't even know there was a video on here. Thanks
I don't even think K.I.T.T. could do that!
“Still holds the record for most dominant car in Formula 1 history”
Williams FW14B: 16 races, 10 wins (62.5% win percentage)
McLaren MP4/4: 16 races, 15 wins (93.75% win percentage)
The Williams, whilst one of the greatest pieces of engineering of all time, does not hold the record for most dominant f1 car of all time.
They dreamed it, but the Williams car was very technological at the time
In terms of results it wasn't. But, in raw pace only a few came close to it. In races they gained up to 2 seconds on the McLarens which were their closest rivals. Or look at the British GP: Mansell in Pole, gave Patrese 2, Senna 3 seconds LOL.
@@davidlakatos9904 the mclaren mp4/4 was from 1988, not 1992
@@popeclementxi7303 I was talking about the '92 Williams, not the MP4/4
Bad comparison, McLaren had a better driver lineup, compare only the 1st drivers in it and it becomes obvious that the Williams was more dominant.
It's interesting to watch this video in light of current porpoising issues. I think it's a shame that the FIA didn't allow the return of active suspension, or at least trial it for a year to see if any issues actually came up.
Mansell : you can't win with last year car
Senna : you underestimate my power
Yet mansell won in what was basically the 91 car
So he had better power than senna
@@ALLTHINGSTV1 Hahahahaha. Funny. You must be English ;)
I just love those footages of the car going up and down in its box like if it was alive and preparing itself ahead of a race
90s Williams: When Paddy Lowe was out of his mind in a good way
williams had a braintrust of patrick head and paddy lowe and adrian newey. some of the great engineers/designers ever.
Feel like newey isn’t getting enough credit
Don't forget Frank Dernie
I'd like to know WTF this guy is talking about in technological changes since the mid 90s. Virtually all of the improvements have been incremental at best.
He was successful because his car, NOT because his car had suspension that would correct oversteer/understeer, as well as a slew of other handy automatic functions. Gee... what do you know... in a PREFFESIONAL SPORT, where the performance of the ATHLETE is everything... they don't want suspension that takes away from that... who'dah thunk it?
Also one of the interesting side benefits of the active suspension experimentation was that it led to a vastly improved undertaking of suspension dynamics so that conventional systems benefited from that new found knowledge. To implement an active suspension, you have to program everything the suspension does in all circumstances. That means you must understand what a suspension _should_ at a level of detail necessary to program it. But once you understand that, that knowledge can then be applied to conventional systems, improving their performance significantly.
I was working at a company that made selector barrels for semi-auto gearbox in the 1992 Williams (we had a 4-axis CNC facility which they didn't). Mansell kept breaking them by double-shifting down. A lot of the guys got massive overtime payments and free GP tickets out of that
I remember my friends Citroën DS from about 30 years ago... Most (unbelievable) comfortable drive.
And I drove my Citroëns GS & GSA about 25-30 years ago. My sister got sick because it was too comfortable. High speed straight over road bumps.
The constant pumping hydraulics had a price for fuel consumption worth while.
The fact that senna could keep up with them, and overtake them in donnington in the rain just shows how ahed he was of everyone else.
McLaren had active suspension in 1993 too. He was phenomenal on that day though
Senna is the G.O.A.T.
@@andrewjackson4103 almost every team had active suspension in 1993
In Donnington, McLaren had introduced a new advanced wet weather traction control system.
@@zroadie Hardly
"it was deemed too dangerous and was banned from the sport"
10 secs later:
"Why doesn't modern F1 use suspension like this?"
Haha
@@silasmayes7954 I know, that's because they banned all the dangerous stuff.....!!
p jay true, but downforce has increased, and the tyres have more grip
You know, politics. When a team invent new tech other teams will try to copy it or get it banned. That's just how it works 🤷🏾♂️
It was only banned because it was dangerous, it was only dangerous because it was the 90s, our technology is better now we should bring back this awesome feature for tighter racing
computers are safer than humans
9:22 Did I just watched that car bunny hopping ?! 🤣🤣
Possibly Bunny Humping? If there was another Willams car nearby...
1. If you want to see driver skill, all the cars must be EXACTLY the same.
2. If you want to see what technology can do to make cars go round quicker, you need to let the engineers have free reign.
The random mismash of regs we have in formula 1 means that a relatively good driver in a relatively better car will just trounce everyone every race.
I'm excited to see self-driving race cars... Let the engineers design the best car they can design without respect to safety of the driver.
like lewis hamilton at the moment?
They do have that - it's called Moto2
@@robbie6625 You would see some sneaky shit on the tracks I imagine. Would be fucking rad.
@@tomryder3641 I know, that would be the most exciting motorsport in existence
it's great thinking that Williams still retain the secret about how those suspensions works to this day, in case they'll come back in F1
edit : this comment hasn't aged very well
Paddy Lowe developed the software for the system and he doesn't have a contract at the moment 👍
Ace Racer he wasn’t fired, he left
25 years have gone by since they invented it, my guess is that all biggest car manufacturers have similar or even better solutions in their road cars by now.
Secrecy is killing off humanity.
@@brennanchapman2384 He left because it became impossible for him to stay on. He was blamed for the demise of Williams in 2018 and 2019. They left the honour to him to take the right decision.
1993: Active suspension banned.
2021: Mercedes introduce manual cranks that adjust the height of each individual wheel; the drivers operate them with their knees and elbows. Other teams contemplate copying it, but FIA says it'll be banned next season.
2022: Mercedes show up with a new system called Twin Wheel Exzentrisch Rear Kontroll, where drivers adjust toe and camber of the real wheels with their butt cheeks.
wait T.W.E.R.K?
Yo hamilton gonna dominate even more 😻 🍑
😂😂😂
Now that's driving by the seat of your pants!
Hahaaa!
Alpine tries to copy it, but has to stop feeding their drivers onion soup before the race, for safety
It's really weird to hear the word ' porpoising' in a video from 2020, since apparently we knew about it but the teams didn't...
No mention of the xantia Activa which actually used the technology? Combining soft and hard suspension spheres and a sensor set which monitored the lean, Vs speed, steering wheel position and acceleration of the car then using rams on the ARB front and back to counter the roll. It to used high speed needle valves with effectively a voice coil to control fluid movement and pressure. It also used 2 separate control units one for the 4 wheel hydractive 2 suspension and one for the active ARB. When driving in a straight line it also almost had completely no ARB in use so a hard hit on one wheel did not transfer to the other side. However under heavy cornering with about the maximum grip (nearly 1g) the suspension cross ARB transfer was very high.
I've seen people come away with bruising from the seatbelts of these cars, most were also able to confirm that the doors would keep you in the car. Add to that the fully hydraulic breaks and it was quite something.
Citroen actually started development of this technology with the original DS.
While Lexus does have cars with active suspension, the footage shown is that of the Bose 'Magic Carpet' or 'Clearmotion' system, which was developed by Bose Corporation and used Lexus vehicles as testing devices -- this system , as far as I know, was not developed by Lexus. Most Lexus active suspension is air-actuated, the Bose system is electromagnetic in nature. Small nit to pick for an otherwise great video.
Also it wasnt mass produced because it was too heavy
@@xxmemerxx3139 In modern electric cars it would be an easy fit though - there's even the possibility of charging the battery with the energy taken from the suspension damping... For the Bose system to work it needed a decent sized battery/capacitor to have energy ready to move the suspension quickly. In an electric car the battery is much bigger than the suspension would need, so part of the extra weight of the system is already in the car doing something else, reducing the cost in weight and money.
Happy to see someone making this remark. It had nothing to do with Lexus. There was actually also a Porsche test mule.
Bose's suspension concept was really unique.
Let's see if ClearMotion (the company that bought the technology from Bose in 2017) can do something out of it.
Also, the non-Bose Lexus cars can and will jump, but only if you try very hard and use a ramp. Results may vary.
Gabriel Malta 🤣🤣🤣
The 93 MP4/8 had an even more sophisticated suspension when TAG, McLaren electronics and Bilstein teamed up to develop the 'Atlas' software which was a game changer for F1 telemetry and control systems. New faster microprocessors were developed for the car by computervision, which were ahead of the time. It's amazing to think complete track data circa 92-93 was stored on those old PC floppy disks
msagoo29 explain how it works.
In theory. And Ron Dennis was preaching that in order to keep Senna with him and attract possibly a factory engine and justify money from Marlboro.
In reality, it has cost many crashes to Senna and Andretti :
1- Imola : 2 crashes for Senna, one on Friday, on bigger on Saturday during qualifications (last chicane in the pit wall , and after Aque Minerale)
2- Imola : 1 crash for Andretti ( last chicane in the pit wall)
3- Barcelona : Senna did his qualifiying with a front right suspension deactivated by a bug
4- Monaco : Huge crash of Senna in the pit straight where he hit 3 times and got slightly injured and quite shocked on Thursday morning
5- Monaco Saturday : Andretti misses the chicane and hit the kerbs because the suspension bugged during the breaking zone
6- Monaco Saturday : Senna was possibly capable of doing the pole when at the same place as Andretti, the suspension cause in the breaking zone to skied and the car crashed into the chicane
7- Magny-Cours : Andretti qualified well behind cause of again bugs on the suspension
8- Spa-Francorchamps : Andretti again qualified well behind cause of the suspension
I might have missed some but these, I am 100% sure
@@GTAGIS You're spot on. I remember Neil Oatley also saying that the mighty feature packed TAG 2.21 ECU employed a certain cylinder and ignition cut off feature which was unreliable on the dyno, and had mapping issues to make up for the Cosworth non works deficit - they also had issues with the solenoid injectors/TTL pulses, and the TC slip goals were unpredictable and inaccurate, but got better with improved software. I think the early rounds had issues with the ride actuators as well - something to do with the 2 way remote data server -calibration issue
@@msagoo29 Many, many thanks for your information.
I recall also that the launch/traction control was only working on 4 of 8 cylinders in a on/off mode. Which was not the most efficient and the best for reliability .
@@msagoo29 That was the real F1
With real circuits.
I take more pleasure looking at a warm-up on the real Spa, the real Monaco , Adelaide or the real Suzuka than watching a "GP" on a parking , whatever called Spa, Monaco or Suzuka.
I have not watched the Formula Monotype By Duracell GP on the Parking of Spa today for instance.
I think , this is my humble opinion, this is insulting any person who knows F1 and motor-racing .
Thank you for this discussion, I am very pleased.
here in 2022 hearing scott talk about porpoising is crazy considering how few people saw that issue coming with the new regulations
What I remember from the active suspension ban after 1993, is that the only teams that could afford this ultra high tech marvel were Williams and McLaren because they could get the controlling software very cheap or even free from their countries respective aerospace manufactures. When Ferrari complained that it couldn't keep up with the competition anymore (especially as they hadn't won a title since 1979) FIA immediately banned active suspensions overnight, which made the cars effectively undriveable and those who remember that era might also remember what happened in the first half of the 1994 season. Also Ayrton Senna was complaining in the first couple of races of that fateful season that Schumacher's Benetton must have been using banned suspension technology but this was never proved.
Still... Hitting them corners in the Lo-Lo, girl.
I’m WEAK
@Nathan King yes
Taking my time to perfect the sport
lol nice
How good was racing in this era all over the world, back when teams could have some freedom with developing their cars
The racing was usually shit, the gaps between cars was huge.
'92 and '93 seasons were really boring, bc Williams team was so dominant. But it would've been so much better to have another boring season in '94 than having Senna killed by a faulty car.
I’d argue it’s also boring watching Mercedes out in front nowadays
Active suspension has drastically improved since then. It is widely used to augment suspension in production road vehicles. I think they should allow it as suspension augmentation.
However, if it goes out without a secondary suspension system mid-race there would be a serious accident, so it should be a secondary "augmentation" system not the sole suspension system.
(edit: fix typo)
9:10 Let me stop you right there! The Lexus/Bose prototype uses electromagnetic actuators, whereas the system you are talking about is using magnetic particles inside the damper to make an active damper such as "MagneRide" used on Corvette's. Totally different things!!!
The late active suspension ban for the upcoming 93 season meant Williams was out of time to redesign its chassis without using active suspension.
The result? An highly unstable car, with a direct effect : Ayrton Senna, who freshly moved to Williams in 93, lost control in Imola at high speed. Thanks FIA for "bans aimed at protecting drivers"... Or was it to protect other jealous racing teams?
Senna drove for Mclaren in 93', and moved to Williams in 94'.
Another Championship senna would have , Senna was the victim of the rule changes
Well nah it wasn’t that senna couldn’t control the car it was that the steering column broke so he wouldn’t have any control of the car even if he tried
Interesting theory except that almost every detail is wrong, from the year to the team, only thing that is correct is the track
"So good it was banned"
It's the FIA, that could mean cart springs
A great Video in Explaining how Active Suspension changes the performance of an F1 car. Also shows how good some of the drivers were on teams without the system.
Thanks for bringing up the subject of active suspension, I remember at the time thinking that it was a true breakthrough & wondered if it may filter down into road vehicles.
5:55 they were so crazy back then. that move would be considered dangerous by todays standards and back then the cars were way more deadly in the even of a crash.
Piquet was pretty much driving with his mirrors only in that race. 😄
1:43:
McLaren MP4/4: Are you sure about that.
You could argue that the success of the MP4/4 was as much to do with the drivers as the car's technical superiority, whereas the Williams car was dominant despite the numpties driving it....lol
I think he's speaking about the car's pace, not dominance in results. Look at the '92 qualifying results, start with the British GP ✌️
FW14B: 10/16 wins
MP4/4: 15/16 wins
The Mclaren IS the most dominant, with drivers and car
The Williams is the most "dominant" (technologic) car, with average drivers, so:
MP4/4 = Drivers
FW14B >>>>>>>>>>> drivers
Sepaking about the years, 1988 to 1992 is a long time, we can't compare technology between these 2, it's clearly not fair.
1200 freaking bhp on that MP4/4
The beast of the turbo era
@@georgedanilov8898 1200? It was less than 700...
"so good it was banned"
Vs
"Too dangerous, so it was banned"
Every sport is always about artificial limitations to stop one team from permanently wiping out the competition.
@@lawrencedoliveiro9104 that was fia BS active suspension were never banney because of safety. Probably because the shit teams couldn't develop one for themselves
My 2006 Escalade has that active magnetic suspension that has some sort of metallic fluid in the shocks that's adjusted via the computer, something like 10,000 times a second. Its pretty neat at how it rides super smooth, but you take a corner hard, and it manages to stiffen up like a coil over, but still dampen and be smooth throughout the corner. The future is now
Amazing video! The 80's and 90's is the F1 I grew up with. Well done, mate!
Thank you for creating and sharing these wonderful videos, Scott ! Such great level of details, explained through easy concepts and plain language. A pleasure to watch them !
@zepter00 this is going on the new Rivian all electric truck
The Tenneco Kinetic system, referenced by electruck in #12, is used by McLaren, and Mark Vinnels, Executive Director for Engineering and Vehicle Development at Rivian, is a former McLaren and Lotus engineer. So, yes, it's likely Rivian will use this highly sophisticated and effective suspension system. Here's a couple of explanations of how Tenneco/McLaren's kinetic suspension system works.
www.caranddriver.com/featur...ennecos-kinetic-suspension-explained-feature/
www.carthrottle.com/post/wvp8myo/
I’m just now getting into F1 partly because of this channel. These are fantastic videos!
At this point the FIA had pretty much had enough of the tech bits that were removing driver skill from the sport, so they banned them. I agree with them for doing so, funny that Mansell said the car was hard to drive, but very satisfying, really ? As a mechanic I drove a few F40's with active suspension, and like Mansell I found them hard to get used to, I actually removed the system from a couple F40's because the owners hated it...
I love your videos but there are many inaccuracies in this one:
1. Other people have noted this already, but in 1992 it was Mansell & Patrese, not Piquet.
2. You talk about the first Lotus active suspension being designed to counter porpoising, but it was developed at the end of 1982 for use in the 1983 season (Lotus model 92), and porpoising was already not a problem anymore as flat floors had been enforced for 1983 so no underbody wings anymore = no ground-effect induced porpoising.
3. You talk about the Renault engine when Williams was developing their first version of the system in 1987-1988, but at that time they were using Honda turbos in 1987 and then Judd naturally aspirated in 1988. It sounds like you're mixing comments about the two different systems of 1987-1988 and 1992-1993, and drivers reactions about them.
4. "Remember, this was the early 90s" but you were referring to the 1987-1988 Williams system.
5. "While the Lotus team took a ride quality approach" What's your source for this? As explained above, porpoising was already a thing of the past when Lotus first developed their system, so performance was always the only approach in designing an active suspension, even for them. You even explain this earlier in the video, mentioning the mechanical and aerodynamic advantages even in 1983.
6. This one is not really a mistake, but at 7:19 you explain how the active suspension allowed the Williams to go straight over the large bump before Mirabeau, and the *only* moment not shown in the video is of that Williams going over that bump (it skips directly from showing Senna and Mansell at the exit of Casino corner to them already in Mirabeau corner after the bump).
I'm glad you wrote this so I didn't have to. As fantastic as Scott's videos are, this one was definitely sketchy. Surely he could’ve rang his dad up to check he had the facts straight. After all, he drove the bloody thing!
I also noticed that
@@joeystanton8111 they're not related.
@@joeystanton8111 don't worry, common misconception.
@@joeystanton8111 😄
9:23 the jumping car I liked that!.
That was incredible!
I lose my shit when I saw that. It was both kinda funny and impressive at the same time
@@mechared3210 lol I laughed so hard too... mainly out of utter disbelief. The way that car jumped like that was remarkable.
The car literally did a Ollie it was crazy
That was some movie shit hahaha
F1 in the 90s was fun to follow...remember seting my vcr to record the races sometimes id stay up to watch .
That is truly incredible. I don't understand how controlling the ride height provides the performance improvements but it obviously helps a great deal. Thanks for putting this together.
It keeps it consistent, meaning that things like the volume of air moving beneath the car is more predictable, stuff like that.
I wish this video would have included a section on driving an active suspension F1 car as opposed to an engineering type summary. The initial "floaty" and detached attitude of the car on turn in while the suspension settled on to the configuration for that corner, etc. Something that Mansell just trusted but Patrese was never comfortable with. Hence their very different qualifying results in '92 (as opposed to '91). Or Prost saying how an active car needs to be thrown around like a Go-Kart and how he was not so comfortable doing that, with his more delicate and careful driving style.
Also I believe active was banned for cost cutting and de-computerising the cars and making them more driver dependant as well.
@zepter00 this is going on the new Rivian all electric truck
The Tenneco Kinetic system, referenced by electruck in #12, is used by McLaren, and Mark Vinnels, Executive Director for Engineering and Vehicle Development at Rivian, is a former McLaren and Lotus engineer. So, yes, it's likely Rivian will use this highly sophisticated and effective suspension system. Here's a couple of explanations of how Tenneco/McLaren's kinetic suspension system works.
www.caranddriver.com/featur...ennecos-kinetic-suspension-explained-feature/
www.carthrottle.com/post/wvp8myo/
good video congratulations, however you missed out some info, especially related to the engine williams used in 87, it was honda not renault, and in the early 90s Patrese was Mansell's team mate. Any chance on us having more info about 87 Lotus 99T and 88 Williams FW12?
Citroen had active suspension since 1955, it was analog but Hydropneumatic suspension was one type of active suspension, and is sad that new cars don't have it anymore. Because an Citroen DS is still one of the most comfortable cars I have be in and it is an 65 year model.
You Rock, Mate! Awesome Video and great voice too!
When you suddenly realize 1990 was 30 YEARS AGO! Time flies at Mach 2.0
Imagine this suspension with the CVT and ground effect. What a beautiful dream!
Semi active suspension on the street is great. I've had it on my car and bike. They're so comfy when cruising but have great control in the corners. They're also really expensive to repair or replace, so my newest car is just a traditional setup. It bounces a little sometimes and I'll never rail it down a road like the old car but...there's a reason I felt like I had to get a new car.
Love this channel! Been watching for a while but finally subscribed!
just to clarify on why it's been banned. the Zanardi crash at Spa revealed that the brackets that were holding the suspensions literally exploded under the forces mid corner in eau rouge. these suspensions work against the forces instead of with, like a spring suspension. brackets were attached to the carbon cell which scared the FIA. becasue if the safety cell is damaged before impact on a wall or another car, it might not protect like it should.
Active or conventional, both suspensions follow newtons 3rd law so in both the force act "against" the car. When entering a turn the springs will compress which will exert an equal force on the suspension knuckle and on the frame. Springs exert force when compressed F= kx where k is your spring constant and x is the distance it is compressed, k determines how "stiff" your spring is. In a hydraulic suspension, it does the same thing except the force resisting compression is hydraulic and can be finely controlled using valves rather than a spring since fluids are incompressible. Since the team has such fine control over the forces being exerted by the car, it could be possible to overload the frame because you can increase the normal force on the road from the car which in turn increases grip which in turn increases suspension forces. Chances are that the williams team was subject to some corrupt rule changes by incumbents along with the frame technology at the time not being able to cope with the extra loading from the suspension.
That makes perfect sense and it’s amazing the engineers who created this didn’t consider that.
@@jiboo6850 I get what you are saying: a conventional suspension will compress which could reduce aerodynamic forces which keeps the vehicle at a lower equilibrium point with regard to forces. But saying the forces work with or against seems wrong. When the vehicle compresses it is being push down by the air which will then compress your springs which then will exert a greater restoring force on your frame and wheel. The main thing that active suspension gives you is dynamic damping coefficient tuning so you can tune out the disturbances from the road. AS also allows for locking out the suspension on straight to prevent compression. By doing so you are moving the equilibrium point of forces higher which doesn't change how the forces are applied, just the magnitude. Source: am controls engineer.
@@AC-wl7ve they probably considered it but lacked the engineering validation tools we have now like FEA.
@@jiboo6850 yes I said exactly what you said but at the end of the day it does not change how the forces are applied, just the magnitude. You can achieve higher grip with active suspension because you can transmit more vertical loading into the tires which increases normal force which increases grip. Magnitude changes, not direction. You as a mechanic should know that when springs compress they exert a restoring force proportional to the distance compressed. Since you can lockout compression and rebound, the vehicle is subject to higher accelerations from disturbances but that is equivalent to running a super stiff spring in a vehicle. You aren't changing the suspension design completely, just replacing a passive component with an active one. The forces are greater than just a normal suspension because the hydraulics can extert more force than was stored by a spring but again only magnitude changes so a stronger and better validated frame would have no problems. I did suspension design as part of an FSAE team lol.
Never been sure what the FIA's goal with the ban was. Seems like the work in F1 could have paved the way for a major improvement in road car suspensions.
Safety.
The goal was to stop the utter dominance of Williams in the early 90's and make F1 competitive again, it's as simple as that. Safety my arse.
Ferrari probably threw a fit about Williams and so the FIA made their little Italian babies happy.
@@rendarecorrentecomopcoes2336 bingo. I was there watching in 92/3 and that’s exactly why.
Just a former mechanic and lazy day gear head here. I don't really follow the circuits, but it's still cool to see you sharing all this obscure and semi obscure history of racing technology.
This came up in my recommendations. Didn’t know I needed to see this today but I did so thank you for sharing this. Lol
Correction at 9:18
The demo you showed wasn’t made by Lexus but by Bose, and it used massive speaker-like coils to fully control the suspension.
It was however way too heavy and power hungry for the time, and they abandoned (and later sold) the tech.
Engineers: breaths
FIA: that's illegal
Thanks for this great vid. Learned a lot that I didn’t know as a rusted on F1 fan for 35 years. On another note how good did those black Lotus’s look. My favourites of all time.
Great video! thanks a lot.
One note, 92, mansell and patrese finished one and two in championship, not piquet, unfortunately :)
amazing to think that i work on systems like this today, ABC suspension found in some of the older amg models (and in the current maybach s600) is essentially the same thing as what's been described here. However they do utilize a steel spring the strut is hydraulically controlled and in the case of the s65 coupe 217 chassis it can use the radar to "predict" the road ahead and compensate the suspension for it. In the "dynamic" mode there is virtually no body roll, in fact you can feel the car lean itself into a turn to increase grip. Truly incredible technology but I had no idea it was derived from old school f1 tech, that is really cool.
Citroën had such a system but better. Same damping, ride height and, "spring" range no matter what you loaded or how fast you were going. Fully hydraulic and self leveling.
They had that in the Xantia Activa, fastest street legal vehicle around corners. Faster than Audi R8 V10, Ferrari 488 or Porsche GT3RS etc.
People didnt want that. They want Bluetooth and navigation and gesture controls...
Vettel have just bought this Williams for his collection.
Are you sure, Vettel bought it for his collection? I'd reckon he rather bought it to have a car which could win a single race this year at least... 😉!
@@primus.interpares he's painting it as we speak
Yes, Vettel has bought an FW14B, seb likes Mansell, obviously enough to buy his championship winning car...
Nice vid bud, the thing that Williams was hiding away was active change int toe adjustment that allowed them to alter traction for better cornering, braking and straight line.
It's interesting how nobody talks about the 1998 -2008 F1 era
The cars at that time (not to mention they were beautiful) they had a lot of wing and winglets, being able to run upside down in a tunnel, though again, nobody talks about that era.
Even FIA itself, when they talk about F1 generations/evolution, they always skip from early 90s to 2009 or 2014 era
This was quite informative. Thanks for the video.
I think this would be a great addition to the BAC Mono. The Mono is already very rigid, but still has the slightest body roll in tight corners. There aren't many street cars that can perform as well as the Mono does in corners, but this would make it untouchable.
This is a great content. Thank you 🎉
I got a Citroen C6 sedan from 2006. It adjusts the suspension of each wheel 400 times a second by changing a system of oil pressure and nitrogen cushions . Very smooth ride in every situation.
"even jump over small obstacle " absoulutly crazy
czcams.com/video/3KPYIaks1UY/video.html
Thank you for this informative video, I didn't know that Lotus was first to implement this concept.
F1 is a competition between drivers and teams, drivers try to drive as fast as possible while teams provide the fastest cars and best strategies, unfortunately I feel these days the formula is too restrictive, I believe a formula should provide limits, say you can use 100kg of fuel but do as you wish with it not also limit the fuel flow..etc
totally in favor of your comment. For one im extremely happy with the security standards and all that has been done to counter fatal crashes is in the best of my interest, but now the competition is so shallow... all the cars look the same and all the regulations are so many that you leave out innovation of the sport that was the central aspect of it. For me F1 was not only the speed, but the new technologies that it pushed forward and how drivers could be more on the limit with those experiments.... now if you are first you will win, because of the dirty air the car behind you wont be able to overtake you, because downforce is banned and engine modes will be banned too, and so on...
I had little interest in F1 until I came across your channel. Great work, Scott. Subbed.
The demonstration at the end with the Bose vs. conventional suspension actually made me open my mouth. Like...wow. :0
Everyone: Wow, active computer-controlled hydraulic suspension.
Citroen owners: Glad you could join us.
Now that's a comment from a real car buff. The first time the FIA (what a bunch of crooks!) passed a rule to "slow down" the cars in F1, I knew I was done with the series.
Watch senna driving always giving nice time,, respect of him and you for edit #gg
Brilliant! Thanks mate!
Lewis Hamilton in 2022 “ i know something of porpoising myself”
They could really use something like this in this year for the ground effects
9:16 actually it was Bose (yeah, the company you know for making audio devices) who built that mind-blowing suspension.
9:16 Lexus did not build it into their LS400. Bose (yes the audio company) used the Lexus as a test mule for their system.
That technology has now been acquired and continues to be developed by ClearMotion inc.
See also: Benz E-Active Body Control
I like to think of it as the whole car being use as an active aero part. That's exactly what Williams did in 1992. It was glorious engineering porn. But banning it was the right decision. In a scenario where everyone perfects this there is almost no space left for the entertaining parts of racing.
I was wondering who's the chap on 1:50 until I covered below his nose and went OOOOOHHH
awesome vids man , just freakin cool !
Great video. You'll find it was Patrese not Piquet no.6 1992.# 8.15.
The particular valves that were employed were called Moog valves.
Why explain this as a "new" suspension in 1983 when Citroen launched the idea in 1952 traction -1955 DS ? Does "New" only look back 10 years ?
And they turned their headlights into the direction where the car steered. But the people wanted pink dashboard lights and other clearly visible markers.
And the first "Activa" suspension system is even tried on a Citroën DS ve 2CV in 1956. Interestingly; Citroën shows his Activa prototype in 1988 and the Activa 2 in 1990.
Besides that, the 1994 Citroën Xantia Activa uses the prototypes suspension system very effectively and never get banned "because it's too dangerous" ;) I own a 2.0HDi one, they aren't dangerous, they are just from another reality.
7:05 "Nigel didn't remember to do because he liked to push things harder"
Actually he didn't remember 'cause he, as Piquet put it, was fast, but was an idiot.
Mansell is F1 and Indycar champion, engineer and scratch golf player, multi millionnaire and OBE...you? just a dumb anonymous youtube hater.. lol
@@TheUlysse2000 Thank God it wasn't me who said it, but Nelson Piquet, three times world champion who always had Mansell in his pocket.
Just because someone is successful doesn’t mean they are smart.
@@MarcoVenustus PIquet was a hater, often very funny but not very fairplay. I know the 86/87 season very well. I know Piquet said that but you mention it like you think it's right. Just a bad miracle Mansell didn't win both titles. and by the way, Mansell was faster than Piquet. Remember Silverstone 87. Piquet and Mansell were too great champions anyway
Loïs Dadon doesnt even apologize
Great footage and info. here. It always amazes me how many of these "pro drivers" rarely get the apex lined up, lap after lap.
We need a hardcore no rules racing league. You bring the best or your cut from the league at the end. I want to see unfair teams, next level technology, insane engines, and crazy design.
Please!
1:16 , did he just say at kyalami?I live close to there!There have been no F1 races for a long time but I can recall being able to hear the engines from 5 km away.
Super Video. Thank you!
Watching that Lexus jump over that curb just blew my mind
czcams.com/video/3KPYIaks1UY/video.html
In 1992 it was Mansell and Patrese, not Piquet. Outside of that, excellent video
The whole video is wrong . Senna’s ‘93 McLaren had also active suspension
Interesting for sure. Thanks for the great info
As I recall (Race Car Engineering - Magazine); MOOG did the valving/servos. They do aerospace, F1, military aircraft...
Hydroactive suspension from Citroen: I'm joke to you?
Exactly
You have no idea how disappointed i was when i found out you were no relation to Nigel...
But i secretly hope you grow a Nigel moustach.
Gsaaay!
Frankly speaking that Mansell's quote wasn't about his 92 car. That particular frase was about his 1986-1987 Williams with turbo engine. However you did a great work.
Just remembered.. my dad bought me a go-cart White coloured Williams F1 for Xmas when I was 6 👌🏼