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PERFECT GRAIN SPAWN FAST! Quick Hot Soak Method Eliminates Burst Kernels
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2023
- A step by step explanation and demonstration on how to make perfectly hydrated grain spawn FAST!!! This expedited hot soak method allows you to easily prepare your grain to a perfect moisture content in only a few hours while eliminating the problem of burst kernels that plague other similar methods and cause contamination. Check out my other videos for more information concerning grain spawn preparation, inoculation, and colonization:
For mushroom cultivation supplies, check out Microppose: microppose.com/RenegadeMushrooms
Use promo code "RENEGADE" for 10% off at checkout.
ADDITIONAL VIDEOS:
All encompassing video with an overnight soak method if you have more time to burn:
• GRAIN SPAWN 101, Start...
How to know if you nailed your moisture balance and what your grain spawn should look like before and after the PC run, as well as during colonization:
• HOW SHOULD MY GRAIN SP...
Grain spawn plus wheat bran:
• GRAIN SPAWN HACK FOR P...
Support my work on Patreon and receive exclusive perks including one-on-one help with your mushroom grows via my Discord server: / renegademushrooms671
Extremely helpful specially the part about burst kernels
Always great stuff from you.
Very straight forward! Good video!
Interesting info regarding burst kernels. I've not heard anything like that. Thank you
Hi I’ve just started growing and I thought this video was very interesting and informative I will give your technique a go thanks for a great video cheers
Really appreciate the content you drop. Thanks for all the new info and the reminders. Love the bran idea as it also increases surface area. Have you ever compared colonization time or quality w and w/out the bran? Thanks!
Colonization time once you move it to sub seems about the same. Spawn itself seems seems to colonize a bit more quickly though and seems thicker. No doubt it helps your overall yield a bit.
I just want to say thank you brother. I've been using your method with the wheat berries since the last video you made, I think about a year ago and it works pretty well.
Awesome, glad it's working for you 👍 I still use the overnight soak alot, but this method works great when you're in a rush.
The added wheat bran tip is awesome. I now use it every time. Just super easy and quick, and allows to sneak in some extra supplementation in a safe way since it’s gonna go through the PC. A little extra work to clean the jars afterwards perhaps (bran is a bit sticky), but almost not worth mentioning. It’s a great tip. Thank you!
Awesome, great to hear it's working for you. Seems to make the spawn a bit more vigorous as well. Thank you for sharing your results 👍
Great Tek! I’m definitely going to try it. The only thing I would change is not to rinse the grain with cold water. That step slows the evaporation of the water off your grain, making the process longer and potentially causing excess moisture in your grain. Especially if you are properly ‘cooking’ your grains, you don’t need to cold shock it. Nothing needs to be rinsed off and it can literally be loaded warm into jars for PC’ing, as long as it is dry enough to pass the TP test. Thanks for experimenting and sharing!
I've always found that rinsing with cold water makes my grain less sticky and easier to shake during colonization. Always looking to improve though, thanks for watching and commenting 👍
@@RenegadeMushrooms How about just rinsing your grains first. I agree with OP on letting it steam dry helps.
@@john-smith. Rinsing in cold water after the soak definitely makes them less sticky so they shake easier, at least with the wheat I'm using. If I'm in a hurry and I want them to go right in the jars, I just mix in dry wheat bran to soak up the excess moisture and send it, no air dry needed. That's just what works for me, lots of different methods can be effective. A lot of it just comes down to personal preference.
I'm definitely gonna try this technique. Looks much more efficient and might solve some of the challenges I've faced. Thanks
Let me know how it works out for you 👍 Always love the feedback.
@@RenegadeMushrooms I sure will. You want feedback? Let's see.... you've taught me how to make liquid culture, how to make and sterilize substrate, transfer grain into substrate, how to use a plastic tub for cordyceps, how to make a small humidity tent (which I have yet to do, but will hopefully before winter). And so far, I've harvested a bunch of Lion's mane, which has been on the top of my favorite gourmet shrooms, cloned some wild golden oysters which are beautiful,, but the taste is "okay" I'll be harvesting cordyceps soon and I'm already making tinctures from a few as well as my fridge is crowded with mushrooms lol
@@ScottWConvid19 😄😎
@@RenegadeMushroomstrying this today. I've been just laying out towels on my table spreading the grain out thin, it usually dries much quicker. One thing I began doing that really has been a game changer is letting the grain dry about an hour or two longer than a surface dry to further parch the outer seed coat so it will absorb more LC; that way I can use 15ccs (or more) without having any pooling at the bottom of the jars. but When using agar, I just let it dry normally and will sometimes add a tbls of verm at the bottom of the jar to absorb any moisture collected during PCing. I've been using foil, but those shower caps are looking quite helpful 👀 they don't allow any moisture inside?
@@RenegadeMushroomsI truly am thankful to you for taking the time to share what you have. There's really only been a few channels I've found to be extremely helpful and yours is one. Your channel really is underrated in popularity
Very effective and efficient!
🥰😘
You can also use lime to dry them quickly
My man 💪😛🔥🔥🔥
Hey I inoculated 2 jars 10 days ago with spores still no signs of mycelium. Should I start over? Or can i inoculate it again?
Thanks for this, Im going to give this tek a try. I dont always know when I'll have free time, so I like that I dont have to start a day ahead of time. Also...today I was planning my fall pier salmon fishing trip and looking for videos. I stumbled across a very familar voice throwing cranks from a lake ontario harbor 😉
Love me some pier kings, only a few weeks away. CAN'T WAIT!
@@RenegadeMushrooms same! What a rush! I'll be on Lake Michigan though. Subscribing to your other channel, hope to see some pier videos this year from ya
@@jeremykenward3082 Definitely. I have a saltwater trip for tuna and bottom fishing in a couple weeks. After that, it's all king fishin.
Use a grain bag for brewing beer they work great
Your channel is a sleeper great video keep bringing quality content
I agree 💯
Me too
Just like my Miata (it's got a cold air intake)
Fuckin oath it is!
You should publish a cultivation book. You have a gift! ❤
Maybe some day...🧡
🤣
Very explicit demonstration. Can I use a plastic jar instead of the glass?
Yes as long as it's PP5 plastic and relatively thick. Only PP5 will withstand the heat and pressure of a pressure cooker.
Great videos! Sort of off topic question. I let my lions mane grain spawn go too long and now there are mushrooms growing in the spawn bag. Is this OK to use with substrate or just let it continue in the spawn bag and try again with another bag? Thank you!
I would pull out any big chunks of mushroom and just spawn it to sawdust, unless there are a lot of mushrooms bigger than a golf ball. If that's the case just finish it on grain. You'll get much better fruiting on sawdust.
So say I blended my mixed grain that I used. I decided to use chicken scratch because I had it on hand it already had cracked corn in it and it’s been outside all winter in a bag and then also in a Tub. Probably pretty clean right. Freezing temperatures kill all fungus doesn’t it? Couldn’t we just freeze our grain?
No, freezing temps definitely do not kill all fungus. Cold tolerant mycelium only goes dormant, then takes back off again when it warms a bit. Grain should be run in a PC at 15 psi. As far as grain type, lots of things will work, but you want whole grain kernels for best results, cracked kernels are not as effective and can lead to contams. I use wheat berries intended for chicken feed and it works well.
Nice 'n plump. This next batch I think I'll do a hybrid of the 2, hot soak overnight with no simmer the next day. Every time I simmer get burst grains and kinda tired of it.
Agreed, I'm always a fan of soak vs. simmer. Just have to dial in the starting water temp and duration for the grain you're using.
I switched to plastic lids with 2 filtered holes from homemade lids with 1 micropose tape hole and the extra FAE is definitely helping, especially with jars I pump more CC's into. I'm all about that 2.5-5 CC's now instead of 1-2. Love watching them colonize like wildfire.@@RenegadeMushrooms
hello renegade!!! Do you boil the grain too or do you just let it rest for 90 minutes? thank you very much for your videos they are the best!!!
No I don't boil the grain, turn the heat off, pour it on, cover, and let it sit. Glad you are enjoying the videos 👍 Thanks for watching.
@@RenegadeMushrooms a thousand thanks master!!!!!
Can we skip the pressure cooker run if it's been soaking in boiling water already?
No. Grain requires extensive heat treatment in order to suitable for use as spawn, just boiling won't get you there.
No pressure cooking sterlization necessary at all?
Yes, you always have to pressure sterilize grain spawn. I PC quart jars for 90 minutes at 15 psi.
From what I understand, you’re not supposed to tighten the lids on the jars before the pressure cooker. Supposed to leave them loose. Maybe 1-2 turns max.
I've put mine on nice and snug for 20 years and never had a jar failure. I don't wrench them on there or anything, but they're tight.
Hi would this method work with brown rice and rye berries because that is what I have on hand currently.
Yes it will, but I would much prefer rye berries instead of rice. Rye berries work much better as grain spawn in my opinion.
Have you let the endospores germinate and THEN pressure sterilize? I've heard of the benefits of allowing this, as it gives the mycelium more food?
With this method I doubt it allows enough time for most of the endospores to germinate, but it still works. Ideally I prefer an overnight soak method, but when your time is limited and you need a fast prep method, this one is the best imo.
@@RenegadeMushrooms good to know
@@RenegadeMushroomsThanks for all your input. I read these comments and don't always reply, but I learn a lot from you taking the time to answer people's questions 👍🏼🙂👍🏼
Hope you don't mind my ignorance, but what is the worry with burst grains and the need to remove them?
Too many of them greatly increases the risk of bacterial contamination in your grain spawn.
Hi, I want to ask about the gypsum, why you don't use it for the grain?
Thanks
You can throw it in there if you want, but I've always considered it optional. Grain does fine without it.
I think the gypsum helps keeping the grain from sticking.
Are gloves necessary while loading jars? I would think it wouldn't really matter?
No, definitely not necessary. I wear them while filming often just for the visual aspect. People generally are less distracted by gloved hands, especially in close-up shots.
How long would you soak rye with that method?
It really depends on your batch of rye. I would start at 60 minutes, then check it every 15 minutes or so until it seems done. Just pull a little grain out with a spoon and try to push your fingernail into it. When it's soft enough to push your fingernail in and put a deep crease in a kernel, it should be good to go.
Hey great video! Are the lids reusable? Do you have to replace the injection port?
The plastic lids themselves last forever. I typically replace the filter discs and injection ports every 12 - 15 runs in the PC. Peel the old one off and stick a new one on. The filter discs and injection ports are from Microppose, check them out: microppose.com/RenegadeMushrooms
Use promo code "RENEGADE" for 10% off at checkout.
@@RenegadeMushrooms ok cool thanks just one more question sorry it's my first time When I make the substrate, I know to use vermiculate and gypsum and coco coir but what ratio should I use? I did not see that in your videos I seen one video where she used 500 grams of each for a small mono tub 18 inches by 10 in by 11 in
@@johnpicco437 For substrate I'm mostly using pasteurized hardwood fuel pellets (sawdust). I show how I prepare it in this video:
czcams.com/video/HD_k-dAyE5Y/video.html
@@RenegadeMushrooms ok cool thanks u are varry helpful I don't know. Maybe I'm not good at searching for it but I can't find a video on light with mushrooms. Is it just okay that they get light or is there at any point that you keep a light on?
I used whole corn, worked very well and very cheap, 50lb for $10.
That's a great price 👍 I'm paying about $20 for a 50 lb. bag of wheat here.
Wtf where are you people getting such insanely cheap grain?!? I'm near DC and the cheapest organic grain I've found is 25lb of rye on Amazon for $43!!! No feed stores or grain silos/elevators near me...
@@MissBlackMetal move to Midwest!
I've been looking for larger mesh colanders for my grain spawn any chance you could tell me where you picked that one up?
It's actually not a colander, it's a large screen cover made to be put over food outside to keep flies out. Works great as a grain strainer though. You might be able to find one at a place like Walmart or Target.
appreciate you bro i've found your techniques extremely helpful getting me started out@@RenegadeMushrooms
Target has a good one that goes over the sink for 20. Amazon has about the same price but the quality is a guess
Isn't it rising with cold water an invitation for contamination or is it better?
No, rinsing with cold water has no impact on contam rates. The sterilization process occurs after this step. Rinsing with cold water removes starch and makes your grain less sticky.
Is food grade lime good for mushroom
Powdered lime can be used to adjust the pH of your substrate, but I haven't found it necessary for grain.
Do you think 90 minutes would be good for Oats as well?
Start checking them every 15 minutes once you get to the 60 minute mark. Once you can easily push your fingernail into the kernels, they should be good.
Awesome. Will do!
Have you ever had fully colonized jars sit for any length of time and still had success?
Yes, if it's a cold tolerant strain and I want to store it, I will shake the jar to break up the kernels a bit and then put them in the fridge (40 F). I've stored them that way for a couple of months and still had success. If you don't shake them first, they are much more likely to fruit on you while in storage. All that being said, it is still always best to use spawn as fresh as possible.
So I just did the soak over night method and I bursted my rye I’m picking it out. Unlike you I don’t have the time to do another soak. Until next weekend, what do you think the time for rye berries would be?
What water temperature did you start with? Near boiling, or just hot tap water? If you start with hot tap water (120 - 130 F) usually the overnight soak is fine. If you start with water at 200 F like in this video, the soak time is only 1 to 2 hours.
@@RenegadeMushrooms hot water!!!
Picking them out is super time consuming, I think I am going to do this method right now!!! Instead do you think rye would be the same time for soaking? Also did you rinse them clean first or are they just straight up dry?
@@paulcompinski3893 I put them in dry, no rinse. I would check them first around the 45 minute mark, then every 15 minutes or so until the look done. Once they soften a bit and you can easily push your fingernail into them, they should be good. You may still get a few burst kernels, but there shouldn't be many.
Thanks man
hello, I have two very important questions, I hope you can help! I have rye grain, brown rice flour, bird seed mix (linseed, sunflower seeds, millet), vermiculite. My question is, after colonizing the jars, can I not I use additional nutrients! Should I move the colonized substrate into a box and add only perlite to the bottom of the box, in the middle mycelium, last layer of vermiculite?!
You can just move it to a box as you said and fruit straight from that substrate. Your results will vary based on what species you are trying to grow, but it should work.
@@RenegadeMushrooms thanks for the reply:One more quick question:How wet should the mix be before I put in the colonization jars?Maybe I should hydrate all the ingredients first...
@@plamenconev3387 Sorry, not sure on that. Never used that substrate mix.
@@RenegadeMushrooms thanks❤️🌠🍁🍄
@@RenegadeMushrooms Hi, do the jar lids need to be screwed all the way down (tight to the jar) before steam sterilizing?
hello again, how many milliliters of liquid is injected into a jar? I have 0.500 as the amount of substrate?!
I use 3 to 4 ccs for a quart jar.
@@RenegadeMushrooms that is, to one liter jar...you add 3-4 milliliters
@@plamenconev3387 Yes
@@RenegadeMushrooms ❤️🍁🍄🌠
@@RenegadeMushrooms thank you my friend...hope i will be successful with the colonization of the jars.otherwise i get ready to grow kits but they don't give good crop.i barely collect a few mushrooms each
How do you keep the grain from sticking to itself in the jars? Every time I try to make spawn it ends up as a grain log after the PC and I can't shake it up.
What type of grain are you using? Some varieties shake much more easily than others. I would suggest switching varieties if possible.
I was using brown rice.
@@mtrobenazzYeah that's why. Rice works if that's all you have, but it's the worst as far as stickiness. Try a bag of wheat and you will see a huge difference. Rye or oat seeds are ok too.
@@RenegadeMushrooms ok thanks. I did have it happen with barley as well. But I'll try wheat.
@@mtrobenazz You'll still have to smack the jar lightly on your hand to break it up, but it's night and day compared to rice. Make sure you rinse it with cold water also after the soak is done like I show in the video. That helps to remove starch.
it appears that micropose no longer sells those lids for the jars.
where do you get them now?
Are you asking about the white plastic lids with the injection ports and filter discs, or the black silicone lid shields?
@@RenegadeMushrooms the white plastic lids
They have the silicone covers
@@nunyabizz50 I make the lids myself. I will give you links. Microppose has the self-adhesive filter discs and injection ports. I buy the lids, then drill two 1/4" holes, then add the filter discs and injection ports.
Lids:
www.amazon.com/dp/B07K2LCG9X?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Filter discs and injection ports:
Injection ports and filter discs: microppose.com/RenegadeMushrooms
Use promo code "RENEGADE" for 10% off at checkout.
@@RenegadeMushrooms oh cool, I thought some bright person sold these, turns out you're the bright person that made them.
Thank you
@@RenegadeMushrooms those lids actually handle 15 psi pressure cook for 90 minutes?
Although I guess the silicone cover helps a bit.
👍
You still have your discord channel and patreon etc Renegade?
Yes I do, here is my Patreon link:
www.patreon.com/RenegadeMushrooms671
The discord server is a perk for my highest tier patrons ($13.99)/month. I also have a lower tier.
So you put the lids on tight? With that rubber shield how does the jar “breathe” and not burst from the pressure? I am constantly having too much moisture in my grain after I sterilize at 15psi, I’m guessing because I leave my lids loose and the steam is getting in there and saturating it. Help please
Yes, you always want your lids tight. The filter disc in the lid will relieve the pressure build up sufficiently so that no jar should ever break on you.
Burst kernels happen because of
Improper moisture content. That's why they contaminate.
My popcorn I pressure cooker. It turned dark. What did I do wrong
I need more info, please list your entire grain prep and sterilization procedure.
@@RenegadeMushrooms I soak the popcorn for about 38 hours. First time set up on the pressure cooker. I got temp up to the rocker weight was just go off every little bit. Used the 15 psi . Set time for 90 minutes. But it doesn't have much water left in the pot
@@RenegadeMushrooms they popcorn looks darker than when I steam it
@@danielgriffin5737 It's normal for it to look a little darker after the sterilization. If it actually looks burnt though, it may be because you ran out of water in your PC? A little toasted is ok, but it shouldn't look or smell burnt.
@@RenegadeMushrooms okay. I think I will try one it out anyway. Thanks brother
I usually soak my hard red wheat grain 12-24 hours then boil for 15,20 minutes (just enough to throughout hydrate the gains without causing them to pop.... basically looking for most of the inside of the grains to be translucent, but not open up). Then I pressure cook them at 15 psi for 1.5-2 hours.
I tried this new technique. I soaked it in scalding water for 2 hours in the pressure cooker (for containment, not on a heat source), sealed and insulated it. I did check them at 1.5 hours but the inside kernels were still chalky white. After 2 hours, the wheat didn't swell as much as the other method and although there were less burst kernels, the wheat didn't colonizing nearly as fast as it does with the long soak and boil. It took nearly a month to get full colonization. I'm not sure why it took so long, but the grain did colonizing. I'm also using aggressive mycelium strain.
Once it finally colonized to 95 %
I shook my jars one final time to verify its viability before Inoculating substrate. This final shake usually re-colonizes in two to three days, however, it's been an entire week and the mycelium in all five jars has not recovered and there are points of moisture I can see, showing that it's metaboluzing, likely because of contamination. I've lost all 5 jars. I'm not sure if I did this "quick and dirty" method properly or if it's just not a good method, but I think I'll be going back to the long soak method. I've never had this problem yet and this entire batch had it. The only thing I've done differently was not doing the long soak and boil.
The learning curve in cultivation can be so rewarding and so disappointing at the same time.
Yeah it sounds like the grain you're using is quite a bit more resistant to hydration than mine. By the mycelium behavior you describe, it sounds like you were indeed lacking hydration, or the culture had issues. You may have to soak a bit longer if using this particular method. My wheat would be a burst kernel mess using your soak and boil method. I use the finger nail test to check hydration on mine. I prefer an overnight soak method, but this one works great for me too. No contamination or colonization issues for me with either method, but yes, the mushroom gods giveth, and the mushroom gods taketh away. Been that way my whole career 😅
@@RenegadeMushrooms I wondered if it might be that the wheat in using is more dense because even two hours didn't fully hydrate them. Thanks for your reply. I've been thinking of changing my grain to oats and a different wheat.
There are different varieties of wheat berry, and some are much harder than others. Harvest time and location can also affect the hardness of wheat grain. I typically use wheat grain and soak times vary widely on the time of year, and I always buy from the same place
@@raleighpreston1902 I'm learning!
Is your grain organic?
My wheat is not, but you can find organic grain pretty easily if you're willing to pay for it. I have some organic sorghum I use occasionally.
@@RenegadeMushrooms what is the brand and type you buy. Where do you get it? I guess it doesn't matter if it's organic? It'll still do the job? I've been using wild bird seed and now it comes with cracked corn in it and it is also a pain in the ass to clean up so...
@@kulprit3072 This is what I use, but I buy it at a local food store:
mackeysgrows.com/products/bs-wheat-50-lbs
You said 40 percent gain so 9 pounds will give you 12 ponds you said multiple by 1.4 where you get that number dumb it down im not getting it ill probably be oh yeah after you explain lol sorry for dumb question
So for the wheat I use, you take the dry weight and multiply it by 1.4 to get the finished weight after I soak the grain. I want to end up with 12 lbs. so I start with 9 lbs. (9 x 1.4 = 12.6) It will vary though depending on the grain you're using and what the moisture content of the grain is right out of the bag.
soak em for 24h ..and thats it..
I show the overnight soak method in the "Grain Spawn 101" video I linked in the description.
Every time a CZcams video rinses something that should not be contaminated by putting it in a kitchen sink, I get itchy. No matter how well you clean the sink, there will be stuff in the drain that likely comes up with the air displaced by the water going down... And most of that is likely to be compatible to contaminate food, given that that's likely how it got there to begin with... I know it is a detail compared with the value of the video, but I do wish people didn't do this. Drain the water into a utensil, then pour it into the sink...
In this case, the amount of bacteria in the sink is irrelevant. The wheat grains are loaded with yeast and bacteria after the soak. I'm breathing more bacteria on to them making the video than they will pick up from a sink rinse. The PC takes care of all that. I mean you can do whatever you want to satisfy your personal "icky" factor, but your fingernail and mouth have more bacteria than that sink.
@@RenegadeMushrooms oh yes. I didn't mean to be critical. You're sterilising the grain anyway. It's a knee-jerk thing. It's like someone is doing TC and needs to free his hand. So he balances a scalpel on a jar to avoid the blade touching the table. He knows what it is doing, Nothing goes wrong, everything is fine but a part of your brain is still tracking that scalpel. 🤣
Though some people also make salads like this on cooking channels...
Great vid but really only applies to wheat , which isn't what most people use , just sayin
Couldn't disagree more. I've used the same method for sorghum, rye, and oats. Works great, have you actually tried it?
@@RenegadeMushrooms cant honestly say i have tried it. Its not the method i question but the times . The method is sound but it sems like different grains would rquire different times than those suggested. Just my 2c worth
@@TheXanthoman I actually say that in the video, that you have to adjust the soak time to the grain type.
@@TheXanthoman 3:40
I live in Costa Rica. Obviously we have a lot of sun. Sundrying the grain on top of a few paper towels works well and quickly. With wheat at least. With millet that attempt failed. Might be it needs more drying time due to smaller kernel size.
You've probably been asked this a million times, but what don't you like about the no soak, no boil method? 3 parts grain to 2 parts water (by weight) straight into the jars and pressure cook.
I've never tried this soaking business before, as it seems like a waste of time and effort. What are the advantages? Is it just the ability to rinse the grain? Anything else? With enough water in my PC, I don't have an issue with burst kernels.
I've tried pretty much every method and this is the one that has worked best for me in terms of perfect moisture distribution, non-sticky grain, and no burst kernels. Of course there are lots of ways to accomplish the same end goal here, and I always encourage people to try multiple methods and see what works best for you. The main advantages I see with soak methods are even hydration, stimulating bacterial endospores in the grain to germinate thereby more easily eliminating them in the PC run, and being able to rinse some of the starch away for less stickiness and easier shaking during colonization.
@@RenegadeMushrooms
If my next sack of grain is animal feed, I'll be definitely pre-soaking for the reasons you've listed.
Thanks!