The Smart Scoring Hack Pros Use on Drivable Par 4s | The Game Plan | Golf Digest
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2023
- It’s a decision that pro and amateur golfers face on drivable par 4’s, should you play aggressive or play safe? In this episode of The Game Plan, Golf Digest Senior Editor Luke Kerr-Dineen looks at Los Angeles Country Club’s short 6th hole, and explains how pros use stats to figure out the best strategy on drivable Par 4s
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Dagger to my heart when he said high handicap then showed 15 lol
Yeah, by that metric I’m an astronomical handicap.
Mate saaaaame 😢
Haha my thoughts exactly! That was my biggest takeaway 😢
I feel you. To help you out. Remember, he is talking about pros, which are about a +6. So slide the scale right. They move to zero. High handicap is now -21.
Feel better?
Since this message I am now a 8.4 handicap so I felt better anyways lol, but now, now with that scale,🤣 gotta be top 10% lol@@andyr5389
The thing is for mid handicaper : The risk of being OB and completely missing the drive is more there than hitting a 5 iron. But for pros, the stat is true.
I'm probably still going OB with my 5 iron
its the proper strategy for high handicappers as well, chunking one with a 4i or sending that OB doesnt stop becoming an option because you left the driver in the bag
I didn’t think this is true. Mid-high handicappers do not tend to be reliable with long irons. The miss is often worse bc they are further away than they would’ve been had they just topped or sliced their drive.
@@timwenger7750 but you go OB less often with 5 iron than driver (and chunking is less punitive than OB since no penalty stroke) so you would have to do the math.
@@JS4Eag did back of envelope calculation of 20 index hitting driver 220 vs 160 club using usgs bogey yardage rating with OB on both sides. looked like both strategies had the same strokes lost. That doesn't include the psychological effect of looking at OB and tensing up.
Unfortunately for anyone not on tour, the risk of a lost ball is high as well
That's what we need more of in professional golf, risk/reward.
I agree!
I think the whole point of this video is that there is no risk/reward. Only reward - for going for it.
@@DjPelland There is always risk, my friend.
Read Lowest Score Wins. Great guide to applying this kind of calculus to your own game.
If I had spotters I would do this more often but man I lose balls in the fairway I swear
If you’re not playing for money or in a tournament, go for it. That way if you get comfortable hitting longer clubs at small targets, when you find yourself in a win or lose situation in a money game etc, you’ll be more comfortable with the shot. You at least want it as an option vs not even considering it as an option bc you’ve never really tried it.
I’m a 9 handicap; when I’m striking my driver consistently (also meaning I know what my miss is) then this approach has been spot on and has got me in the high 70’s more than 1x. But if the drivers acting naughty then lay up!
Wow this video is awesome. LKD is the GOAT. Always giving out smart takes.
Funny...I can't stand the guy because of some of his horrendous takes🤔
Excellent video GD!
Have you forgotten that Mito Perreira threw away the PGA championship staying aggressive on the 18th hole. Sometimes conservative isn’t a bad option…even for professionals!
Mito wasnt even being aggressive. He just made a terrible swing. Its a 491 par 4.... Do you want him to not hit driver? lol. He's one ahead. Say he sits back and misses a putt now he's in playoff anyway. Driver was always the play; Mito just made a bad mistake.
That swing he made with driver was a fairway finder attempt and looked nothing like his normal/aggressive swing
Mito just got in his own head and made a bad swing. Happens to the best of em. I felt bad for him bc I actually like him as a player.
Mito got rattled by the crowd and the pressure of it all.
It's true for pros, but less true for higher-handicap amateurs. They don't have the skill to hit a short-sided flop to get the ball close. They are an absolute disaster out of bunkers. They can't get it close out of ankle deep rough or a hazard. When they hit that 3-wood to try to get it close to the par-5 green in two, they're likely to hit It off the planet into the woods or water.
In general, higher-handicap amateurs are better off doing what gives them the most simple shot. While they may occasionally catch lightning in a bottle and make the aggressive shot pay off, more often than not, they're going to turn the aggressive play into a big number.
Heyyyy…Speak for yourself! If we do pull it off we can talk about it for years to come. 😂❤
keep in mind that the high handicappers don't play on such tough courses. anyway, unless you're a scratch golfer you probably shouldnt be giving advice
The high handicapper can just as easily put their approach shot in a horrible place.
Mark Broadie disagrees with you. Read Every Shot Counts. The data backs it up.
@@JonasKFriedChicken highly likely. aim as best you can to the area and itll prob turn into a lay up anyway
I applaud the effort that went into this video. Content creators should take note
Fair enough. However, the risk/reward ratios are different for pros than they are for weekend players. Pros are going to make a lot of up-and-downs because they usually have great short games while weekend players generally do not.
My decision is also influenced by the fact, that I do not have the certainty to find the ball again, even if it is in the rough close to the green after a good 1st shot. Pros playing in tournaments do not have to worry about this, becasue there are always spectators and staff around the green, spotting the ball.
Being able to find the ball is a skill everyone develops through years! Well actually not everyone, because not everyone realizes it's a skill you can train and get better at.
It’s fundamentally flawed to use professionals data to make decisions as a mid to high handicap. If you’re a mid to high and you want to lower your scores, key number one is eliminating doubles and then reducing bogeys. NOT by sneaking out more birdies.
If it’s just a short par four with no specific danger, sure go for it. If the shot risking a penalty or OB for precision… keep the big number off. Get a wedge in your hand and just hit the green. You may pick up a fraction of a stroke on the closer drive but if you go hazard or OB you’re guaranteeing yourself a lost full stroke or two
This makes sense for a pro or very low handicap golfer. For a double digit handicap or highers i would say their lack of control over where a drive goes could have them hitting 2,3,4.... Balls off the tee before they got one in play
The risk/reward assessment would change dramatically if hazards such as bunkers were turned back into actual (ie penal) hazards for the pros on short par-4s. When there is so little to lose by going for it, as Morikawa said, pros just expect to be able to cope with whatever lie they end up in. Courses need to worry them more!
If they make rough deeper and the hazards more difficult it might change the status quo
Well, it makes sense that closer to the hole is better. But I think the math changes when there’s water hazards by the green because the penalty strokes for going into the water are going to make the average score of the aggressive strategy much higher.
When he said high handicap and the number only went to 15 🥲
Love these!
They designed the hole like a duck, with the green being the ducks bill.
How good is your short game vs how good is your 100 yd shot?
1:55 why is Rory 70 years old here 😂
Not sure how having spotters must effect those %?
"Archaeologically"? ....
The answer comes down the situation: aee you behind and need to be more aggressive? Or happy being conservative and leaving picking up strokes to other holes.
The lesson of Tin Cup is take your drop. Like his caddy said he can pitch it on and still make par and go to a playoff.
I agree! 😂
Thanks for the data, I tee up in about two hours. No laying up for this grinder.
Go for the bunkers 🤔
Depends how your chip game is.
Yeah, you should probably lay up... but just IMAGINE if you got it there
During the 2007 Masters, Zach Johnson did not reach a single par five in two during the entire Tournament. Yet he played the par fives better than anyone esle in the feild with 11 birdies and not a single bogey.
Same with Mike Weir.
This is probably the better mindset for all of us.
... that and practicing our wedge game waaaaaaaay more than we do
Give me another ball
must be nice to play courses with out of bounds misses ha unfortunately for those of us who play courses with out of bounds and not hazards, we cant afford to be aggressive because the miss doesn't lead to a bogey or double, it leads to a Non return
I always lay up on drivable Par 4’s.
Not because I want to but because I can’t reach it
Par is good, I play up
All im hearing is “bombs away boys.” See you on the green! (The wrong green.. but a green nonetheless 😂)
I'm confused, so should I attack or should I lay up?...
That hole is very similar to 10 at Riviera. The green is super thin, and if your short sided or long, the green is not receptive. Laying up is probably the smarter move.
Did you even watch the video, the scoring average at riveria's tenth hole has gone done as more people have gone for the green (5:50)
It's more about how good your short game is. And this is where we (amateurs) suck the most!..)
And that’s why drivable par 4’s are a bore. They all just go for it. If the risk was higher, and say 50% of the field were to lay up, then it would be interesting. Then the choice would be interesting and so would the execution, or lack of. But if everyone chooses just to hit and hope, then it’s a poor golf hole.
Do you think the same thing for a longer par 4? Every player is going for the green in two, so those holes must be boring too
theres a bit more than hope in there Billsy. Im actually shocked that pro golfers want to get it in the hole in the least shots as possible.
So basically go for it as long as it doesn't put you in trouble. Because youre closer
Pros drive it because they have a vastly better short game...and that consists of playing bad lies as well as good....high handicappers do not and thus risk getting a poor lie and shooter a 6. You guys are just not reading the stats correctly...players in 2003 didn't have the equipment and skill level of players now in the short game department.
15 is a high handicap? I’m curious what he’d call 90% of my buddies who have 20+ handicap 😂
So, in summary, modern equipment has broken even the best designed holes.
Why he kept saying sith green? Is there a star wars joke somewhere?
Most mortals should lay up to be safe. If you have the distance, give it a try.
Can’t wait to hear Colt Knost interject his (wrong) opinion next week at the US open when guys are going for it lol. He just doesn’t like stats I guess
this dude's voice is brutal
Tin cup was a stupid movie . Under no circumstances would he a golfer ever be celebrated for being that stupid.
This guy’s voice is a jar. Such a jar
Get a different person to do the voiceover. This guy is unlistenable
Layups are for basketball. 💥🏌🏻♂️
Lame