I used Moog problem solver sway bar links on a 02 Mazda Protege5. In my opinion they were better then OE because they were all metal construction and had grease nipples. I think alot of aftermarket parts can be hit or miss when it comes to quality
Moog has had a very good reputation.... but their reputation has been going downhill recently. I replaced lower control arms on a Dodge Charger and ended up with more issues than I started with. After installing and getting aligned, I had terrible “death wobble”. Further investigation revealed the bushings in the control arm were incomplete. The were shaped like a “C” instead of “O” (only 3/4 of the bushing). When I received the parts, I noticed they were in white boxes with Moog labels, unlike the blue/yellow boxes I was used to. After contacting Moog, they admitted to using re-named Chinese parts. Secondly, I changed lower control arms on a 2006 Ford Escape... with 8 months, one of those bushing went bad. Replaced it and has been fine since (4 years). Just my experiences from about 4 years ago. I still use Moog unless there are other options.
In my experience the Moog parts of today are garbage. I've had numerous issues with them. Those integral boot ball joints are some of the worst, too. I used some on some mid-2000 GM trucks and have had nothing but problems with them and have had to warranty replace some of them. I avoid Moog.
@@bobroberts2371 I bought what the local parts stores stocked when it comes to Moog. If Moog wants to put their name on a junk line of parts they deserve to lose their reputation regardless. I've never compared multiple Moog parts. Same goes for things like Nissan "Value Advantage" parts. I used Value Advantage struts one time...never ever again. They were worse than the junkiest low end struts I could buy anywhere.
@@johnaclark1 Did you expect top line struts at a value line price? There is a reason second tier parts cost less. The only reason top line parts look expensive is because someone is making a cheaper part. As for Moog, lots of top line companies are offering a second tier line of parts in an effort to stay in business.
@@bobroberts2371 I expected them to not squeak and rub going over every bump. There are certain brands to buy and Moog isn't one of them. Sometimes you have to go with whatever is available but I will continue to avoid Moog when I can. Might as well buy the cheaper store brand suspension parts rather than pay the high price for Moog junk, which is all made in China like the rest of it. As an aside, I replaced the Nissan value advantage struts with KYB and had no more issues.
Just did this today on my ‘92 Toyota pickup, I replaced both inner and outer tie rod ends (MOOG)…I’d say request an exchange from car quest. I had one outer tie rod end that was easy to turn (how it’s supposed to be) and I had one that was spreading the sleeve and really hard to turn. I think it might be a quality control thing. Good luck Peter, let us know how it went.
i drive an 02 Silverado 2500HD, and going by past experience, i put a new Moog universal joint on the rear, well it made it 13 miles before the one leg snapped off, sent my driveshaft wobbling like crazy for a few seconds, which broke the transfer case adapter on the transmission, and then the driveshaft went flying out from under the truck, catapulted into the air, and landed embedded in a child's clubhouse swing setup, Moog be damned, NEVER AGAIN!!!!! I will now buy OEM parts!
@Account NumberEight i use and abuse my truck, frequently haul 8k pounds worth of equipment on a trailer, so I can't expect things to last forever. The OEM joint lasted 232k miles, the moog lasted 13 miles without a load, empty truck, and the OEM replacement i have put roughly 12k miles on so far and it's holding up fine.
This video confirms my doubts about Moog products and reinforces by the comments made by others. I will only use OEM Toyota products to replace old and worn parts my 4Runner. Glad I did not replace my suspension parts with Moog. Thanks Toyota Maintenance for the video! Very informative and best channel as to how to maintenance your Toyota!
our local parts stores quit carrying moog 10 yrs ago or so, i think because of too many warranty returns. i also do the "eyeball" alignment it gets it close enough to get them to the alignment shop.
Did my Lower Ball Joints on my 97 4runner and just went with dealer OEM for about 250$ with bolts. Point is just spend to money on OEM on these types of parts. Yes I do understand that some people aren't cash heavy but will probably pay down the road when inferior parts fail.
I had a similar issue years ago on my 2nd gen 4Runner. I had a shop replace inner and outer tie rods and align. Truck never drove straight and would go all over the place at highway speeds. I replaced them myself years later and saw the same problem you’re having. What I did was just cut off 1/2” on both tie rods and truck drove perfect afterwards. The original shop never mentioned the rods were bottoming out and couldn’t pull tires in anymore. Would’ve saved me lots of money on used front tires due to uneven wear because them pulling out. Main reason I wouldn’t let anyone drive my truck. Good luck.
Eric The Car Guy hates Moog. I like Moog because they usually have grease fittings although I have noticed that they aren't included in the new parts. Unfortunate.
THe fittings used to arrive installed. A recent set of parts required they be installed. It was a pain in the a**. I think that their quality is slipping a bit.
Weirdly enough I bought mine and they had no zerks for the ones that arrive. But however, the ones online on the jungle website showed holes for the fittings. Inline mine. Hm.
@@JeffWinter1 their quality has recently seemed to dropped some... gradually get lower / cheaper. This is the perfect example. Used to have fittings installed, then not installed & now not existent. Also, your parts issue is COULD be with either the sellers use of "stock photos", low parts quality / various suppliers supplying moog, counterfeit parts, or simply a dishonest seller.
Do you usually use aftermarket parts when working on the Toyotas at your shop or do you normally use Toyota OEM parts? I personally have never had many issues with MOOG parts but I've read multiple reviews saying they're not very good.
My experience is that all aftermarket companies get these details wrong at times. At least here, you could shorten the shaft. And...I think it's just easier to take a fixed rod (20-30cm) and position it in the center of the ball joint/grease fitting and mark where ever the rod reaches to - forget counting threads. Thanks!
If OEM is to expensive, then I TRY to buy Moog... their sway bar links and lower control arms and various other parts (to be specific). I have used a lot of those types of Moog parts and they are generally VERY beefy as compaired to OEM and others & are not a cheap (cost wise) either. I have never had a problem and am generally happy with the quality. Their sway bar links (for instance) usually have serviceable grease fittings with OEM & others missing them. That being said, they used to cost more because they were QUALITY & made in the USA. I think they are "slipping a little bit" lately by outsourcing to China and possibly Mexico now. My understanding is that the quality varies based on the country of production. Additionally, I feel like counterfeit parts run rampant nowadays. Even though these look like they were purchased from a legit retailer, the issues you show suggest to me that they might be counterfeit (but who knows).
Replaced my lower ball joints on my 1998 Tacoma with Moog lower ball joints and they failed on driver side at only 20k miles. Had to buy TRD at the dealer fo $109 each...... replaced them both on my driveway in less than an hour with OEM and so far they have 90k miles on them, still tight.
I never comment much but I have a 2002 Toyota Camry with 170K (bought 7 years ago at 82K). I was upgrading all of the steering and suspension components trying to make the ride quality better so I ended up using MOOG sway bar end links. Within 20K miles all of the boots were torn and they were all slinging grease. Ended up replacing them with all OEM Toyota end links and the ride quality is astoundingly better. They were very expensive but that really stopped me from using aftermarket parts. I went ahead and ended up replacing most other suspension components with all Toyota (LCAs, inner/outer tie rods, all struts, both CV axles) and have had no issues since and the car runs amazing, especially for a 2002. Toyota parts really are superior quality and if you plan on doing it once and being done with it, it really is your best option. This also happened to me with an aftermarket timing belt tensioner that failed and caused my engine timing to be off. As you can imagine this caused MAJOR drivability problems and sent me down a major money pit trying to diagnose and fix, as it mirrored problems that could be caused by many other things, especially for the year of the car. I also replaced this with a Toyota tensioner and belt and have had zero issues since. Because of these issues, I only use Toyota parts now (alternator, starter, sensors, etc.) or use Denso, if I can find it for my model. If it's something unimportant like a window regulator or interior door handle aftermarket can work, but if it is ANYTHING related to the operation of the engine or various systems (EVAP, EGR, etc.) it is not worth it to risk it. Pay the money. Do it once. Be done with it. Hopefully this can help other Toyota owners and save them from spending the thousands that I did. But hey, at least I have a renovated Toyota now.
My favorite auto repair podcast is TheAutomotiveHour and they have mentioned while Moog used to be good they now will almost never use the stuff for their own repair garage. Mostly OEM now for steering stuff.
Also check the angle of the stud on both. Dont be surprised if they differ. I generally like Moog. Like most brands they have different grades available for the same part.
There was a time when Moog suspension parts was FAR superior to OEM parts! OEM ball joints were good for maybe 50,000 miles and the replacement Moog stuff would last the remainder of the cars lifetime! Same applied to idler Arms, tie rod ends etc. What happened? I hear Dorman products have gone downhill too!
Moog used to be made in good ol' US of A, but then they started outsourcing to china and whatnot which saw the company's demise. You can still find some parts that are made in the states(which are actually pretty decent quality), but for the most part it's hot garbage now a days
I've heard a bunch of Crap about MOOG but only recently. I assume they outsourced with no follow up on quality control. Or these are counterfeit and MOOG is dropping the ball marking their authentic products better.
Used moog tie rod ends with markings 555 on them on my 2006 Odyssey, they only lasted less then 4 years. Bought new one's they did not have 555 markings on them will see how long those last.
The wheels NEED TO BE ON THE GROUND in order to set toe. Counting threads does not work either. If you want to get the initial value close, measure the center to center length of the old tie rod assembly and make the new one match. Also, miss adjusted toe or a non centered steering will will not cause the car to pull, that that would be caused by a left right caster / camber split . Does the part number end with a T ? If so, this is the low cost line of Moog.
AC Delco sway bar links on our Sienna lasted me 3 months. Should have went OE to begin with. I thought I was saving $30 over OE, ended up paying twice and doing the job twice. Lesson learned.
I feel you on moog. I feel like it could be a hit or miss with them. If I get the chance I will buy original OEM part just because I know it is going to last so many years like the old one and fitment as well.
I've had very good luck with Moog Stabilizer Link Assemblies on my 2003 Toyota Sequoia. The first pair lasted over 120,000 miles. And I've got about 30,000 miles on my second pair.
I used to buy Moog parts...no longer. Quality has slipped. I appreciate a lot of their parts have lifetime warranties, but many times the labor is worth more than the part. OEM for me. If the customer insists on you installing those parts, specifically EXCLUDE that in writing from any warranty you offer on your work.
2001 Tacoma PreRunner Xcab 2.7L 2WD - Last year I replaced my entire front end suspension with Moog parts and Monroe shocks. So far the only complaint I have is their dust boots seem cheap. One of the upper ball joint dust boots tore immediately. I found out fast that Moog doesn't sell just their dust boots. Advanced Auto got me one to replace it because they were brand new. I noticed a few days ago I have another torn upper ball joint dust boot. I ordered some universal dust boots off Amazon and I hope one of them fits decently. They should definitely last more than one year and approximately 10,000 miles.
Hi Peter, good video, I have been in this industry going on 40 yrs now, and yes Moog use to be the go to after your factory parts wore out and they were much more expensive than most brands, in turn you got what you paid for well engineered and long lasting components, this is no longer the case, the quality has gone down hill, Moog is not the same quality it use to be, there are more Moog parts replaced under the lifetime warranty now within 2/3 yrs of being installed on the vehicle than other brands, Moog use to always come with grease fittings built in, no longer happening, so now you pay twice the labour, you only have warranty on the part not the labour, so you have tie rod ends at $80 a side to replace , then a front end alignment like that 4 Runner which can only be 2 wheel alignment so it cost you another $100 round figures, now your at $260/taxes , when in the first place if you or the customer hadn't bought Moog you wouldn't be out $300 more in the first place , several nation wide service centres no longer even offer Moog for the reason of quality problems as you found comparing the old part to new, so it is your business and choice what you offer the customer , i can only say we don not and will not sell, use or install Moog parts any longer and to get replacements under the lifetime warranty is not so easy either especially for the customer, parts can be as much as a week away in some cases or as little as 2 or 3 days, your customer now is without their vehicle for this amount of time and has to then rent a car and not counting on lost wages they will incur, Moog just is not what they use to be, now a brand without the quality, our customers spend about 10/15% more for parts that last and don't have lifetime warranty and do not need it , they are quality built parts 👍
Damn after reading these comments I hope I got a good part from them. I just ordered an idler arm from Moog on Amazon it came with the blue/yellow box, 555 stamp, and says from Japan :(. Kinda wished I got the OEM version but had to get a power steering pump as well so budget unfortunately.
Thought Moog was good until I bought some stabilizer links from them on amazon. Didn’t last 6months until it started squeaking. Non serviceable part too. Had to the the job again and with OEM
I have had good experience with Moog and my Toyotas. Did you check if that’s the correct Moog part? I can’t see the greater diameter from the video and can’t determine whether you can’t screw it in any further even though there’s more threads or is it coming against a hard stop where you can’t screw it anymore?
@@LAactor conical doesnt make much sense being machined, more likely the sleeve has rust where the shorter TRE ended and it was tough to get through the rust.
I have question i hope you can help with i cleaned the throttle body and the maf sensor with the same stuff as you so thats good came nice and clean but after the idle went up as you said but the check engine light is on now should disconnect the battery? Or what do ya think? On my 2003 tundra
Moog is a hit or miss with their quality. If you get parts made in the states you'll probably be happy with it. But if you get a Chinese part, odds are it will be defective out of the factory. I've had control arms from Moog that didn't even fit properly, and I've also experienced getting crap ball joints from them(which i had to replace about every 2 months or so).
I bought and install Moog upper control arms with greasable ball joints. They work well. These parts don't have threading though. I think Moog is top quality.
I had a lower ball joint replaced on the driver's side of my 2011 Tacoma, and the shady Toyota dealer used a Moog part for it. 2 years & 18,000 miles later a different Toyota dealer had to cut that ball joint out with a torch and replace it again. I chose a World Pac part this time around. World Pac can't possibly be worse than the Moog. If I need to replace it again I'll just have to spend a fortune on the OEM lower control arm assembly, as Toyota doesn't sell just the ball joint.
Used the MOOG stabilizer bar front links on both my 1998 and 1999 Corolla with NO issues…… better warranty, also! They also came with the lube nipples…….something you never see anymore! Please except this from a seasoned Automotive Tech with over 50 years experience!
I have Moog tie rod ends, stabilizer links front and rear, stabilize bar bushings front and rear, front control arm bushings, front lower ball joints, and adjustable rear upper control arms on an old Civic. No problems. All fit perfectly and are holding up fine. What I've learned, is to stick with the Moog K or CK series "Problem Solver" parts. Avoid the RK series, if possible (but it's not always possible depending on the part). This particular case looks like the preferred "Problem Solver" parts, but appear to have a manufacturing defect. Explain it to Moog, they'll probably fix it.
@@mattlawton4715 I wouldn't use them on a newer low mileage car, but the car I used them on is a 2006 with now 220k miles that has spent its entire life in a rust belt winter climate. My expectation is to keep it on the road for the last few years of its life, that's all. It would be hard to justify the cost of Honda suspension parts for this car.
Update: All the moog parts on my old Civic are still good at 250k miles! It's looking like they'll see the car through to the end of its life. Not sure when that will be, but the rust is progressing and is going to get it eventually. I have a new to me 2014 Yaris, my first Toyota, with 180k miles. It needs new control arm bushings. Toyota only sell the entire control arm for $400 (CND). I'm not going to put $800 (CND) of control arms into a used car that I paid $4k for. Moog sells the bushing alone for $20, so Moog it is. The car also needs new stablizer links, and I know from experience that stablizer links have to come on and off a few times in the life of an old car as work is perfomed, and Moog links have nice wrench flats that make removal a breeze with zero risk of damaging the boot, so Moog it is for those too.
I used to believe that moog was the best aftermarket brand, but I suspect they now sub-contract some parts as I have ordered two of the same part in recent years that appear to be made differently and of course one will not fit properly.
Wow! Since I am sure you verified that the ends are for a 1986 rig, I think I'd extract it and return them to the owner and then suggest new Toyota ends. Sorry for your troubles. But thank you much for your videos, I have watched practically all of them.
I don't know about MOOG parts but I bought Autozone front Stabilizing Sway Bar links for the 2008 Highlander and within two years, both of them broke right of where the lower joints completely off and they were just dangling in the air :(... So, now I replaced them with the Original Toyota parts.
Just installed Moog Ball Joints and tie rods on 2013 Hyundai elantra. Car handles well, parts seem high quality, and fit fine for me. But I've been watching the reviews and people seem to really dislike them some parts not fitting correctly.
Great early 2 door runner I'd love to find a clean one. I would never use Moog products on my first gen Tacoma or any other vehicle. Their products have a very short lifespan as my friend found out the hard way with their ball-joints. I worked in the automotive magazine and television productions for years we had license plate covers that we would stick on with rolled up painters tape to protect the owners. I would suggest buying cardboard or plastic ones with your logo to cover the plates. Plastic ones are reusable forever. Cardboard would be cheaper and could be easier for a local printer to produce. You could also just make them yourself by just cutting a piece of cardboard. Just a suggestion. Great channel.
@@FixIt1975 Good point that I hadn't considered even after driving a 1988 4x4 truck for years sold it in 2014 after 10 years of bulletproof use except for the cursed head gasket in the 3.0L.
We drive around with our plates showing. What would be the need to hide it. I do like the idea of the channel logo in place of the plate only because its more interesting.
Since you worked in production for years, maybe you can get with your contacts and print him a few to show your appreciation for the channel. Surely you could get them for less than how much he would spend. He is a modest man, spend little, except for the enjoyment of the outdoors and open road.
@@fixitallpaul4847 I agreed with your statement till I read a post on the Tundra forum recently. A guy that seemed very knowledgeable in his rant said that basically, the plate number is just another piece of the puzzle for the losers to put things together and finally figuring out a lot about you. For example, think if also it was mentioned where this guy lives, maybe it was mentioned he drives his kids to a school in a certain part of town, he has a sticker on the back tying him to a group. After his paragraph, I now think it's best to be safe and cover the plates. Again agreed with your statement till I read the paragraph from this guy.
One good Example: OEM toyota 3rd gen 4R and 1st gen taco lower ball joint lasts easy 200K miles while moog and 555 parts max 20K miles. Comes from a guy who owns a fleet of toyota trucks.
I replaced sway bar end links on my 05 Tundra with Moog. They were much bigger and stronger than oem Toyota. That’s the only experience I’ve had using Moog parts.
Dang, I was planning on going with MOOG parts to do a whole steering refresh on my 1st gen 4 runner and now I won't. If Anyone has recommendations for other part companies, I'd love to hear it. Been looking at LCE steering parts but they don't seem to list who makes the part.
@@Kingscoolstuff That 4runner is 36 years old, I doubt that factory parts are even available, unless you're lucky enough to find someone with a horde of NOS parts
I had a 98 4Runner. I started to replace suspension parts and quickly learned that Genuine Toyota is the way to go. I put on some aftermarket links (Moog I believe) and they did not even last a year. Unfortunately, some of the Toyota parts are insanely expensive.
I've replaced some ball joints on my tsx with some moog parts they lasted a little over a year you need to check on the box where they were made the ones made in the USA are better than the ones made somewhere else, so check the box and see where they were made I now have some made in the US ill see how these will last after I replace them
I decided not to use Moog anymore after they would not last 2 years or 20,000 miles. Also, they had grease fittings which meant I had to lube them up on a regular basis when OEM lasted twice as long and had no lubricant requirements.
Moog makes urethane suspension parts which last indefinitely. It is highly likely some makes ( Toyota ? ) aren't a Moog priority, and they give the best they can ? I would trim the threaded collar and continue making the inward toe-in turns. It isn't a rocket nozzle. As long as the threads match . Moog doesn't make roll cages either. I am Giordano Moog; founder of Moog auto parts. Moog is also a co-owner of Kellogs. Just joshin' ...
Like all of the parts suppliers, Moog does not make parts, they are sourced from multiple manufacturers. In the past they may have sourced good parts from oem manufacturers, but nowadays they are mostly junk from Taiwan and China.
Normally i find moog products to work really well…the issue you are having is what ive sen on napa brand products The design of that tie rod looks similar (boot, end design etc…) looks similar to napa products… Once they (napa parts)? were so. BAd i could not install them do i had to return them and good the moog part..that part is still on almostv 10 years later! I wonder if they swapped supplier / manufacturer??
Since the customer brought the parts to you, did you check to make sure the parts are the correct fitment? That is the first thing that should be done. I have had issues many times with incorrect part numbers and fitment compatibility. The other issue is the parts person makes a mistake. Just saying. If they don't look the same don't use them.
I've only used their sway bar links, and while they have a generous warranty, I don't enjoy replacing them so frequently. Over the years I've learned paying more for OE Lexus/Toyota parts is a far smarter investment in the long run. Most factory parts last at least 15 years before they fail. Aftermarket is more like 2-5 years.
oh...good thing i stumbled onto this video...got a 1997 4runner and was gonna redo the front suspension bushings and actually looking at moog...will try my luck on other brands i guess...should ask scotty kilmer..lol
Junk- I used them for my suspension on my Celica- ball joints are done and inner tie Rod on passenger is going and so are both outer rods. OEM is always best for a reason. I chose moog for the zirc fittings on the ball joints- haven’t lasted more than a year. End link on drivers side is going to. Thanks Moog! (NOT!) Sorry your dealing with these issues. Wish I could find a better aftermarket brand.
Never had a problem with moog products but heard there quality has been going down hill hope they don't end like Dorman there stuff is shit if you ask me i guess we will have to wait and find out in the long run
I run 24" wheels on my truck and I've changed the tie rods 2 times this year I changed to moog parts Control arms upper and lower pitman amd idler inner and outer tie rods and sewy bar links and haven't changed and thing I used ac Delco tie rods before
Moog used to be great. Now I have some good and some bad parts from them. I feel that moog quality is not what it used to be.
I think most good Moog now is new old stock
Just like anything now these days you have to research what part is made where it's unfortunate the standards are getting worse and worse every year
2024 now, anything moog is absolute trash
I buy 555 sankei. It’s made in Japan and good quality.
Agreed. You can find some of these relabeled as AC Delco on Rock Auto.
...and packaged as Moog depending on vehicle application.
I swore by moog,for the last thirty years,the last decade quality has fallen lower each year..
My experience too. IMO, Moog started to go bad more than 15 years ago. I went into denial for a couple of years. Now I would not even consider a Moog.
Companies are now into buying counterfeits products, then to have them made.
I have had bad experience with Moog and Mevotech. I will never use them again. A good aftermarket brand would be TRW or stick to the OEM brand.
@@thaloszapispapos715 ok,so now we have people standing up for TRW over moog. Yup the replacement part market is clearly in the toilet nowadays.
Rebuilt the suspension/steering of my 04 Highlander with Moog parts, fit perfectly, have 80K on the parts now, no issues at all.
Thank you Peter. Good stuff.
I used Moog problem solver sway bar links on a 02 Mazda Protege5. In my opinion they were better then OE because they were all metal construction and had grease nipples. I think alot of aftermarket parts can be hit or miss when it comes to quality
Moog has had a very good reputation.... but their reputation has been going downhill recently. I replaced lower control arms on a Dodge Charger and ended up with more issues than I started with. After installing and getting aligned, I had terrible “death wobble”. Further investigation revealed the bushings in the control arm were incomplete. The were shaped like a “C” instead of “O” (only 3/4 of the bushing). When I received the parts, I noticed they were in white boxes with Moog labels, unlike the blue/yellow boxes I was used to. After contacting Moog, they admitted to using re-named Chinese parts. Secondly, I changed lower control arms on a 2006 Ford Escape... with 8 months, one of those bushing went bad. Replaced it and has been fine since (4 years). Just my experiences from about 4 years ago. I still use Moog unless there are other options.
Yes they are. I use them all over my 3rd gen. Never had any issues and they are guaranteed for life.
Thank you for this great video 👍
In my experience the Moog parts of today are garbage. I've had numerous issues with them. Those integral boot ball joints are some of the worst, too. I used some on some mid-2000 GM trucks and have had nothing but problems with them and have had to warranty replace some of them. I avoid Moog.
Are you buying top line Moog or their T line? The T line is for those that don't want to pay for top line.
@@bobroberts2371 I bought what the local parts stores stocked when it comes to Moog. If Moog wants to put their name on a junk line of parts they deserve to lose their reputation regardless. I've never compared multiple Moog parts. Same goes for things like Nissan "Value Advantage" parts. I used Value Advantage struts one time...never ever again. They were worse than the junkiest low end struts I could buy anywhere.
@@johnaclark1 Did you expect top line struts at a value line price? There is a reason second tier parts cost less. The only reason top line parts look expensive is because someone is making a cheaper part.
As for Moog, lots of top line companies are offering a second tier line of parts in an effort to stay in business.
@@bobroberts2371 I expected them to not squeak and rub going over every bump. There are certain brands to buy and Moog isn't one of them. Sometimes you have to go with whatever is available but I will continue to avoid Moog when I can. Might as well buy the cheaper store brand suspension parts rather than pay the high price for Moog junk, which is all made in China like the rest of it.
As an aside, I replaced the Nissan value advantage struts with KYB and had no more issues.
Just did this today on my ‘92 Toyota pickup, I replaced both inner and outer tie rod ends (MOOG)…I’d say request an exchange from car quest. I had one outer tie rod end that was easy to turn (how it’s supposed to be) and I had one that was spreading the sleeve and really hard to turn. I think it might be a quality control thing. Good luck Peter, let us know how it went.
90's MOOG = "No Problem Solver"
2021 MOOG = "Problem Creator"
Nope, the guy in the vid has absolutely no idea how to set toe. The wheels need to be on the ground.
I just changed my Tie Rods end 2005 Gen2 tacoma 3 hours ago. With Moog ..so far so good. I was just browsing on CZcams and saw your video
hows it been after 2 years?
I hope they are. I'm going to use them for my driveshaft u-joints. Thanks for the vids!
@Account NumberEight OK, If you were in the market for suspension parts for yourself, what brand would you trust and why?
i drive an 02 Silverado 2500HD, and going by past experience, i put a new Moog universal joint on the rear, well it made it 13 miles before the one leg snapped off, sent my driveshaft wobbling like crazy for a few seconds, which broke the transfer case adapter on the transmission, and then the driveshaft went flying out from under the truck, catapulted into the air, and landed embedded in a child's clubhouse swing setup, Moog be damned, NEVER AGAIN!!!!! I will now buy OEM parts!
@Account NumberEight i use and abuse my truck, frequently haul 8k pounds worth of equipment on a trailer, so I can't expect things to last forever. The OEM joint lasted 232k miles, the moog lasted 13 miles without a load, empty truck, and the OEM replacement i have put roughly 12k miles on so far and it's holding up fine.
This video confirms my doubts about Moog products and reinforces by the comments made by others. I will only use OEM Toyota products to replace old and worn parts my 4Runner. Glad I did not replace my suspension parts with Moog. Thanks Toyota Maintenance for the video! Very informative and best channel as to how to maintenance your Toyota!
Yes moog are bad 👎
Possible your customer was sold the wrong ball joint?
our local parts stores quit carrying moog 10 yrs ago or so, i think because of too many warranty returns. i also do the "eyeball" alignment it gets it close enough to get them to the alignment shop.
Did my Lower Ball Joints on my 97 4runner and just went with dealer OEM for about 250$ with bolts. Point is just spend to money on OEM on these types of parts. Yes I do understand that some people aren't cash heavy but will probably pay down the road when inferior parts fail.
I had a similar issue years ago on my 2nd gen 4Runner. I had a shop replace inner and outer tie rods and align. Truck never drove straight and would go all over the place at highway speeds. I replaced them myself years later and saw the same problem you’re having. What I did was just cut off 1/2” on both tie rods and truck drove perfect afterwards. The original shop never mentioned the rods were bottoming out and couldn’t pull tires in anymore. Would’ve saved me lots of money on used front tires due to uneven wear because them pulling out. Main reason I wouldn’t let anyone drive my truck. Good luck.
I hit the thumbs up button even before I watch your videos because I know they're going to be good.
I have had good luck with MOOG as they are rugged and have grease fittings. No trouble with what i used so far from them.
Eric The Car Guy hates Moog. I like Moog because they usually have grease fittings although I have noticed that they aren't included in the new parts. Unfortunate.
THe fittings used to arrive installed. A recent set of parts required they be installed. It was a pain in the a**. I think that their quality is slipping a bit.
@@jotu173 my new tie rod ends had no fittings included or installed. Disappointed.
Weirdly enough I bought mine and they had no zerks for the ones that arrive. But however, the ones online on the jungle website showed holes for the fittings. Inline mine. Hm.
@@JeffWinter1 their quality has recently seemed to dropped some... gradually get lower / cheaper. This is the perfect example. Used to have fittings installed, then not installed & now not existent. Also, your parts issue is COULD be with either the sellers use of "stock photos", low parts quality / various suppliers supplying moog, counterfeit parts, or simply a dishonest seller.
Do you usually use aftermarket parts when working on the Toyotas at your shop or do you normally use Toyota OEM parts? I personally have never had many issues with MOOG parts but I've read multiple reviews saying they're not very good.
My experience is that all aftermarket companies get these details wrong at times. At least here, you could shorten the shaft.
And...I think it's just easier to take a fixed rod (20-30cm) and position it in the center of the ball joint/grease fitting and mark where ever the rod reaches to - forget counting threads.
Thanks!
The threads are different as it gets closer to the ball joint as he showed so cutting the shaft won't work here either.
If OEM is to expensive, then I TRY to buy Moog... their sway bar links and lower control arms and various other parts (to be specific). I have used a lot of those types of Moog parts and they are generally VERY beefy as compaired to OEM and others & are not a cheap (cost wise) either. I have never had a problem and am generally happy with the quality. Their sway bar links (for instance) usually have serviceable grease fittings with OEM & others missing them. That being said, they used to cost more because they were QUALITY & made in the USA. I think they are "slipping a little bit" lately by outsourcing to China and possibly Mexico now. My understanding is that the quality varies based on the country of production. Additionally, I feel like counterfeit parts run rampant nowadays. Even though these look like they were purchased from a legit retailer, the issues you show suggest to me that they might be counterfeit (but who knows).
Thanks for the information!
Replaced my lower ball joints on my 1998 Tacoma with Moog lower ball joints and they failed on driver side at only 20k miles. Had to buy TRD at the dealer fo $109 each...... replaced them both on my driveway in less than an hour with OEM and so far they have 90k miles on them, still tight.
I never comment much but I have a 2002 Toyota Camry with 170K (bought 7 years ago at 82K). I was upgrading all of the steering and suspension components trying to make the ride quality better so I ended up using MOOG sway bar end links. Within 20K miles all of the boots were torn and they were all slinging grease. Ended up replacing them with all OEM Toyota end links and the ride quality is astoundingly better. They were very expensive but that really stopped me from using aftermarket parts.
I went ahead and ended up replacing most other suspension components with all Toyota (LCAs, inner/outer tie rods, all struts, both CV axles) and have had no issues since and the car runs amazing, especially for a 2002. Toyota parts really are superior quality and if you plan on doing it once and being done with it, it really is your best option. This also happened to me with an aftermarket timing belt tensioner that failed and caused my engine timing to be off. As you can imagine this caused MAJOR drivability problems and sent me down a major money pit trying to diagnose and fix, as it mirrored problems that could be caused by many other things, especially for the year of the car. I also replaced this with a Toyota tensioner and belt and have had zero issues since. Because of these issues, I only use Toyota parts now (alternator, starter, sensors, etc.) or use Denso, if I can find it for my model. If it's something unimportant like a window regulator or interior door handle aftermarket can work, but if it is ANYTHING related to the operation of the engine or various systems (EVAP, EGR, etc.) it is not worth it to risk it. Pay the money. Do it once. Be done with it. Hopefully this can help other Toyota owners and save them from spending the thousands that I did. But hey, at least I have a renovated Toyota now.
My favorite auto repair podcast is TheAutomotiveHour and they have mentioned while Moog used to be good they now will almost never use the stuff for their own repair garage. Mostly OEM now for steering stuff.
Also check the angle of the stud on both. Dont be surprised if they differ.
I generally like Moog.
Like most brands they have different grades available for the same part.
Peter, Look a the inner tie-rod end on right side. No adjustment left. Suspension modification?
There was a time when Moog suspension parts was FAR superior to OEM parts! OEM ball joints were good for maybe 50,000 miles and the replacement Moog stuff would last the remainder of the cars lifetime! Same applied to idler Arms, tie rod ends etc. What happened? I hear Dorman products have gone downhill too!
Moog used to be made in good ol' US of A, but then they started outsourcing to china and whatnot which saw the company's demise. You can still find some parts that are made in the states(which are actually pretty decent quality), but for the most part it's hot garbage now a days
How can Dorman products go downhill; they are already at the bottom
@@kevinbarry71 I have some Dorman EVAP parts from Oriely. Switching valves and purge solenoids. No check engine light.
I've heard a bunch of Crap about MOOG but only recently. I assume they outsourced with no follow up on quality control. Or these are counterfeit and MOOG is dropping the ball marking their authentic products better.
You mean OEm but not Toyota oem, correct? No manufacturer can come closer even a bit closer to the quality of toyota OEM parts.
Used moog tie rod ends with markings 555 on them on my 2006 Odyssey, they only lasted less then 4 years. Bought new one's they did not have 555 markings on them will see how long those last.
The wheels NEED TO BE ON THE GROUND in order to set toe. Counting threads does not work either. If you want to get the initial value close, measure the center to center length of the old tie rod assembly and make the new one match. Also, miss adjusted toe or a non centered steering will will not cause the car to pull, that that would be caused by a left right caster / camber split .
Does the part number end with a T ? If so, this is the low cost line of Moog.
AC Delco sway bar links on our Sienna lasted me 3 months. Should have went OE to begin with. I thought I was saving $30 over OE, ended up paying twice and doing the job twice. Lesson learned.
I feel you on moog. I feel like it could be a hit or miss with them. If I get the chance I will buy original OEM part just because I know it is going to last so many years like the old one and fitment as well.
Junk
I've had very good luck with Moog Stabilizer Link Assemblies on my 2003 Toyota Sequoia. The first pair lasted over 120,000 miles. And I've got about 30,000 miles on my second pair.
I have Moog sway bar endlinks on my mk7 gti, so far they’re holding up.
I used to buy Moog parts...no longer. Quality has slipped. I appreciate a lot of their parts have lifetime warranties, but many times the labor is worth more than the part. OEM for me. If the customer insists on you installing those parts, specifically EXCLUDE that in writing from any warranty you offer on your work.
5 years Moog upper and lower Ball Joints working great no slop.
2001 Tacoma PreRunner Xcab 2.7L 2WD - Last year I replaced my entire front end suspension with Moog parts and Monroe shocks. So far the only complaint I have is their dust boots seem cheap. One of the upper ball joint dust boots tore immediately. I found out fast that Moog doesn't sell just their dust boots. Advanced Auto got me one to replace it because they were brand new. I noticed a few days ago I have another torn upper ball joint dust boot. I ordered some universal dust boots off Amazon and I hope one of them fits decently. They should definitely last more than one year and approximately 10,000 miles.
Hi Peter, good video, I have been in this industry going on 40 yrs now, and yes Moog use to be the go to after your factory parts wore out and they were much more expensive than most brands, in turn you got what you paid for well engineered and long lasting components, this is no longer the case, the quality has gone down hill, Moog is not the same quality it use to be, there are more Moog parts replaced under the lifetime warranty now within 2/3 yrs of being installed on the vehicle than other brands, Moog use to always come with grease fittings built in, no longer happening, so now you pay twice the labour, you only have warranty on the part not the labour, so you have tie rod ends at $80 a side to replace , then a front end alignment like that 4 Runner which can only be 2 wheel alignment so it cost you another $100 round figures, now your at $260/taxes , when in the first place if you or the customer hadn't bought Moog you wouldn't be out $300 more in the first place , several nation wide service centres no longer even offer Moog for the reason of quality problems as you found comparing the old part to new, so it is your business and choice what you offer the customer , i can only say we don not and will not sell, use or install Moog parts any longer and to get replacements under the lifetime warranty is not so easy either especially for the customer, parts can be as much as a week away in some cases or as little as 2 or 3 days, your customer now is without their vehicle for this amount of time and has to then rent a car and not counting on lost wages they will incur, Moog just is not what they use to be, now a brand without the quality, our customers spend about 10/15% more for parts that last and don't have lifetime warranty and do not need it , they are quality built parts 👍
What do you recommend for a 02 nissan frontier 4x4.
T rods suspension parts?
What brand would you recommend for an 03 grand cherokee front end rebuild?
Absolutely with you on this
Recommend suspension part for ford focus ecoboost.
Damn after reading these comments I hope I got a good part from them. I just ordered an idler arm from Moog on Amazon it came with the blue/yellow box, 555 stamp, and says from Japan :(. Kinda wished I got the OEM version but had to get a power steering pump as well so budget unfortunately.
Thought Moog was good until I bought some stabilizer links from them on amazon. Didn’t last 6months until it started squeaking. Non serviceable part too. Had to the the job again and with OEM
I have had good experience with Moog and my Toyotas. Did you check if that’s the correct Moog part? I can’t see the greater diameter from the video and can’t determine whether you can’t screw it in any further even though there’s more threads or is it coming against a hard stop where you can’t screw it anymore?
From what I can tell he says it's getting conical as it goes into the joint. Conical. Taper almost like an ice cream cone.
@@LAactor conical doesnt make much sense being machined, more likely the sleeve has rust where the shorter TRE ended and it was tough to get through the rust.
Good product. Beater aftermarket lifted truck.
Moog ball joints on my van lasted 3 months. Never again.
Eric the Car Guy ranted about Moog rear suspension arms on his Honda Odyssey. They were different length than OEM.
I have question i hope you can help with i cleaned the throttle body and the maf sensor with the same stuff as you so thats good came nice and clean but after the idle went up as you said but the check engine light is on now should disconnect the battery? Or what do ya think? On my 2003 tundra
Moog is a hit or miss with their quality. If you get parts made in the states you'll probably be happy with it. But if you get a Chinese part, odds are it will be defective out of the factory. I've had control arms from Moog that didn't even fit properly, and I've also experienced getting crap ball joints from them(which i had to replace about every 2 months or so).
Agreed, MOOG are hit or miss
I bought and install Moog upper control arms with greasable ball joints. They work well. These parts don't have threading though. I think Moog is top quality.
I had a lower ball joint replaced on the driver's side of my 2011 Tacoma, and the shady Toyota dealer used a Moog part for it. 2 years & 18,000 miles later a different Toyota dealer had to cut that ball joint out with a torch and replace it again. I chose a World Pac part this time around.
World Pac can't possibly be worse than the Moog. If I need to replace it again I'll just have to spend a fortune on the OEM lower control arm assembly, as Toyota doesn't sell just the ball joint.
Used the MOOG stabilizer bar front links on both my 1998 and 1999 Corolla with NO issues…… better warranty, also! They also came with the lube nipples…….something you never see anymore! Please except this from a seasoned Automotive Tech with over 50 years experience!
I have Moog tie rod ends, stabilizer links front and rear, stabilize bar bushings front and rear, front control arm bushings, front lower ball joints, and adjustable rear upper control arms on an old Civic. No problems. All fit perfectly and are holding up fine. What I've learned, is to stick with the Moog K or CK series "Problem Solver" parts. Avoid the RK series, if possible (but it's not always possible depending on the part). This particular case looks like the preferred "Problem Solver" parts, but appear to have a manufacturing defect. Explain it to Moog, they'll probably fix it.
Just avoid them is best stick to genuine. They won't last as long as the original Honda but if they fit and are cheap hay why not I suppose 👍
@@mattlawton4715 I wouldn't use them on a newer low mileage car, but the car I used them on is a 2006 with now 220k miles that has spent its entire life in a rust belt winter climate. My expectation is to keep it on the road for the last few years of its life, that's all. It would be hard to justify the cost of Honda suspension parts for this car.
@@jptrainor absolutely agree 👍
Update: All the moog parts on my old Civic are still good at 250k miles! It's looking like they'll see the car through to the end of its life. Not sure when that will be, but the rust is progressing and is going to get it eventually.
I have a new to me 2014 Yaris, my first Toyota, with 180k miles. It needs new control arm bushings. Toyota only sell the entire control arm for $400 (CND). I'm not going to put $800 (CND) of control arms into a used car that I paid $4k for. Moog sells the bushing alone for $20, so Moog it is. The car also needs new stablizer links, and I know from experience that stablizer links have to come on and off a few times in the life of an old car as work is perfomed, and Moog links have nice wrench flats that make removal a breeze with zero risk of damaging the boot, so Moog it is for those too.
I used to believe that moog was the best aftermarket brand, but I suspect they now sub-contract some parts as I have ordered two of the same part in recent years that appear to be made differently and of course one will not fit properly.
Moog seems to be hit or miss. I’ve found that the brand “555” is a close alternative to oem Toyota parts.
Wow! Since I am sure you verified that the ends are for a 1986 rig, I think I'd extract it and return them to the owner and then suggest new Toyota ends. Sorry for your troubles. But thank you much for your videos, I have watched practically all of them.
I am watching this while waiting for my ordered MOOG ball joints to arrive... at least they were cheap...
I don't know about MOOG parts but I bought Autozone front Stabilizing Sway Bar links for the 2008 Highlander and within two years, both of them broke right of where the lower joints completely off and they were just dangling in the air :(... So, now I replaced them with the Original Toyota parts.
Peter, I have a 2021 Tacoma, which engine oil would you recommend?
V-6 engine
Just installed Moog Ball Joints and tie rods on 2013 Hyundai elantra. Car handles well, parts seem high quality, and fit fine for me. But I've been watching the reviews and people seem to really dislike them some parts not fitting correctly.
I bought Moog control arm bushings for my Jeep that would not press in (made too large). Ended up replacing the whole control arm(not with Moog).
Great early 2 door runner I'd love to find a clean one. I would never use Moog products on my first gen Tacoma or any other vehicle. Their products have a very short lifespan as my friend found out the hard way with their ball-joints. I worked in the automotive magazine and television productions for years we had license plate covers that we would stick on with rolled up painters tape to protect the owners. I would suggest buying cardboard or plastic ones with your logo to cover the plates. Plastic ones are reusable forever. Cardboard would be cheaper and could be easier for a local printer to produce. You could also just make them yourself by just cutting a piece of cardboard. Just a suggestion. Great channel.
He probably can't even find factory front end parts for that, probably discontinued, it is a 35 year old vehicle
@@FixIt1975 Good point that I hadn't considered even after driving a 1988 4x4 truck for years sold it in 2014 after 10 years of bulletproof use except for the cursed head gasket in the 3.0L.
We drive around with our plates showing. What would be the need to hide it. I do like the idea of the channel logo in place of the plate only because its more interesting.
Since you worked in production for years, maybe you can get with your contacts and print him a few to show your appreciation for the channel. Surely you could get them for less than how much he would spend. He is a modest man, spend little, except for the enjoyment of the outdoors and open road.
@@fixitallpaul4847 I agreed with your statement till I read a post on the Tundra forum recently. A guy that seemed very knowledgeable in his rant said that basically, the plate number is just another piece of the puzzle for the losers to put things together and finally figuring out a lot about you. For example, think if also it was mentioned where this guy lives, maybe it was mentioned he drives his kids to a school in a certain part of town, he has a sticker on the back tying him to a group. After his paragraph, I now think it's best to be safe and cover the plates. Again agreed with your statement till I read the paragraph from this guy.
One good Example: OEM toyota 3rd gen 4R and 1st gen taco lower ball joint lasts easy 200K miles while moog and 555 parts max 20K miles. Comes from a guy who owns a fleet of toyota trucks.
Peter did they make wide and narrow track? Seen it before!
Great video! I think you should open up a new shop around my area!
Moog makes good springs, for ball joints, go OEM.
They do make good springs. In my first gen tacoma they've outlasted the originals by double the milage.
I replaced sway bar end links on my 05 Tundra with Moog. They were much bigger and stronger than oem Toyota. That’s the only experience I’ve had using Moog parts.
i recently bought a Moog upper control arm and upon inspection it is cheaply made in China. I did not install it. Ordered Sankei 555 instead.
I have had problems even with OEM parts in the last couple of years.
Try getting some parts from Terrain Tamer Australia. They specialize in Toyota replacement parts.
Dang, I was planning on going with MOOG parts to do a whole steering refresh on my 1st gen 4 runner and now I won't. If Anyone has recommendations for other part companies, I'd love to hear it. Been looking at LCE steering parts but they don't seem to list who makes the part.
Look for NOS parts, if you can find them
Genuine Toyota parts for all steering components. Don't risk your life to save a few bucks.
@@Kingscoolstuff That 4runner is 36 years old, I doubt that factory parts are even available, unless you're lucky enough to find someone with a horde of NOS parts
@@FixIt1975 That's a very good point. I'm sure OEM would be hard to find.
I had a 98 4Runner. I started to replace suspension parts and quickly learned that Genuine Toyota is the way to go. I put on some aftermarket links (Moog I believe) and they did not even last a year. Unfortunately, some of the Toyota parts are insanely expensive.
I've replaced some ball joints on my tsx with some moog parts they lasted a little over a year you need to check on the box where they were made the ones made in the USA are better than the ones made somewhere else, so check the box and see where they were made I now have some made in the US ill see how these will last after I replace them
thanks for info
Moog has been good in my experience, no issues so far.
I've seen them be hit or miss.
I used also on my 4runner never had any problem
I was always told by mechanics and car friends that they are the best, so I use nothing but Moog suspension and bearing parts
I decided not to use Moog anymore after they would not last 2 years or 20,000 miles. Also, they had grease fittings which meant I had to lube them up on a regular basis when OEM lasted twice as long and had no lubricant requirements.
Moog makes urethane suspension parts which last indefinitely.
It is highly likely some makes ( Toyota ? ) aren't a Moog priority, and they give the best they can ?
I would trim the threaded collar and continue making the inward toe-in turns.
It isn't a rocket nozzle. As long as the threads match .
Moog doesn't make roll cages either.
I am Giordano Moog; founder of Moog auto parts.
Moog is also a co-owner of Kellogs.
Just joshin' ...
Are Dorman lower ball joints and tie rod ends any good? Thanks.
Like all of the parts suppliers, Moog does not make parts, they are sourced from multiple manufacturers. In the past they may have sourced good parts from oem manufacturers, but nowadays they are mostly junk from Taiwan and China.
Normally i find moog products to work really well…the issue you are having is what ive sen on napa brand products
The design of that tie rod looks similar (boot, end design etc…) looks similar to napa products…
Once they (napa parts)? were so. BAd i could not install them do i had to return them and good the moog part..that part is still on almostv 10 years later!
I wonder if they swapped supplier / manufacturer??
Moog used to be the go to for suspension parts 30 years ago when I was a mechanic. From the comments here looks like no more. Sad.
Moog parts are a mixed bag. Sankei 555 are excellent aftermarket suspension/steering parts.
Since the customer brought the parts to you, did you check to make sure the parts are the correct fitment? That is the first thing that should be done. I have had issues many times with incorrect part numbers and fitment compatibility. The other issue is the parts person makes a mistake. Just saying. If they don't look the same don't use them.
What part of California are you at? Great vid!!
*Oh, God. That explains everything. The part is Californicated.*
If you have any doubts about the part, you should just stick with OEM. The MOOG part is obviously out of spec as per your observations.
OEM isn't available after a certain age of vehicle. Varies per manufacturer, but at a certain point is a requirement to choose a suitable aftermarket
The best part about that truck are the very clean front tires.
I've only used their sway bar links, and while they have a generous warranty, I don't enjoy replacing them so frequently. Over the years I've learned paying more for OE Lexus/Toyota parts is a far smarter investment in the long run. Most factory parts last at least 15 years before they fail. Aftermarket is more like 2-5 years.
oh...good thing i stumbled onto this video...got a 1997 4runner and was gonna redo the front suspension bushings and actually looking at moog...will try my luck on other brands i guess...should ask scotty kilmer..lol
Junk- I used them for my suspension on my Celica- ball joints are done and inner tie Rod on passenger is going and so are both outer rods. OEM is always best for a reason. I chose moog for the zirc fittings on the ball joints- haven’t lasted more than a year. End link on drivers side is going to. Thanks Moog! (NOT!)
Sorry your dealing with these issues.
Wish I could find a better aftermarket brand.
is a hit or miss with Moog as well a Movetech
Never had a problem with moog products but heard there quality has been going down hill hope they don't end like Dorman there stuff is shit if you ask me i guess we will have to wait and find out in the long run
*Like Monroe, Dorman spends more money on product promotion and sales junkets to Carmel and Maui than they do on quality engineering. Cheers!*
Never had an issue issue in my shop.
what company do you recommend for 2004 camry tie rod replacement?
It's been a long time since I had one of those trucks, but that center link looks WAY too long....
I've had more problems with customer supplying their own parts than I have with Moog.
Just installed moog lower ball joints on my first gen tacoma. Haven't tried it yet but these reviews make me fear driving with those lbj...
I run 24" wheels on my truck and I've changed the tie rods 2 times this year I changed to moog parts Control arms upper and lower pitman amd idler inner and outer tie rods and sewy bar links and haven't changed and thing I used ac Delco tie rods before
Was there a left and right part.?