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- čas přidán 24. 09. 2017
- What's inside an implantable Medtronics Itrel 3 Neurostimulator designed for Neuropathic pain reduction.
Dave tears into the ultrasonically welded titanium case.
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I've been battling extraordinary pain down my legs for almost 20 years. I've had one of these implanted for over 10 years now and it's amazing. I have multiple electrodes woven into my mid-spinal cord with the stim-pack just above my belt-line. The version I have is rechargeable using inductive charging, very cool. Literally saved my life! Thanks for taking this one apaaart!
hohoking5150 had mine installed 2 years ago. I’d be wheelchair bound without it....if I could sit.
Awesome, thanks for sharing.
How do you charge yourself? Do you have to sleep on a coil or how does that work?
blaberoo , yep, it looks like one of those wireless phone chargers. About once every 2 weeks I have an excuse to be a couch potato. Takes around as long as a movie. I just tuck the charger behind me and settle in.
blaberoo mine has a coil that looks like a 3” flat paddle that I tape to my ass where the implant is for about an hour or so just about every 30 days.
I've had 5 back fusions, the last surgery was ONE week ago. The neurosurgeon fused my neck from 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.7.... I'm still pretty sore. For a number of years, I had the Medtronic Spinal Stimulator implanted. Initially, the surgeon does a trial to see if the simulator is going to be useful, the implants are placed along the spine, the actual unit is left outside the body. Many many different adjust can be made (programmed) IF the unit works it is implanted, this is where I had a problem, the trial worked wonderfully the implanted device never did live up to its potential. The unit had a charging circuit that allowed the battery to be charged through the skin. Finally, after fighting it for years I had it removed.
I also have a second Medtronic device implanted, this is a pump that contains several drugs for pain. The main drug is Hydromorphone, it's delivered straight into my spine 24hrs a day, period... I've had 2 of them now for more than 10 yrs.... Since the Doctors have decided that narcotics are bad, they are turning the dose down, not much fun after ten years. That is a totally different story...
Yes, it makes me so very sick to think they are trying to remove the only thing that has given me relief over the years. I realize I'm addicted to the opiates, I don't seek drugs, I only use what is given, I never abuse. It's a bitch...
Thanks for sharing the story
God Bless you and the ppl working on this!
At least you guys had some relief from the drugs. I go totally brain-dead on opiates. I try to deal with the pain but nothing makes it go away. I see my 7th neurosurgeon in a few weeks and probably need T5-T6 and T7-T8 fused.
I don't know how these little electrical devices can help with real pain, but after an epidural injection I felt great for 2 days. It's the only relief I have had going on 4 years this coming February 26th. If the professional back stabers could put me on an epidural injection 24/7 I'd be great. This level of pain and drugs shouldn't be political IMO. People have no idea what real pain is until you've spent a few years stuck laying in bed 90% of your day every day. I know I didn't.
I thought these neurostimulars were mostly used for people with severe epilepsy or touretts syndrome. I know a guy that has one of the worst cases of touretts. He had the stimulators implanted but they didn't help him very much.
Have you tried CBD or medical cannabis?
I don't know about this specific implant, but a colleague works in this area and she was telling me about the latest developments. The device she helped develop is designed to interrupt seizures in patients with non-cancerous growths, typically cysts which are in an area of the brain upon which it would be dangerous to operate. The reed switch in the devices she works on are there for the patients carer/partner to operate when the person is having a seizure. They swipe a magnet across to activate/deactivate the device. It's a fascinating bit of medical tech and it's helped a great many people. I think she said the success rate was around 60%, the remaining 40% either had no benefit or their condition was made worse. I can't remember the exact figures I'm afraid and it's an early trial so I'm sure things will be tweaked to become even more effective.
Been watching too much AvE, when Dave said "focus!" trying to show the laser trimmed resistors I automatically said "you fuck!"
Ryan MacIntosh me to
Yup haha AvE is great
Ryan MacIntosh I said the exact same thing to myself. Focus you f***!
In like Sin on that baby! Every video mate :) and every dam phrase, Thanks for watching____
No such thing as "Too much" Ave!
I am on my second spinal cord stimulator, both by Medtronic. Both of them are rechargeable so a bit different than that model. The reed switch is there for the same reason as a pacemaker has one, so emergency personnel can shut them down if need be. Mostly these things run nonstop from the time they are installed. On the controller you can set the strength of the pulse, did I mention they pulse, anyway the strength, the length and the pulses per second. They do have a clock in there somewhere as they will shut off 10 years to the day they were turned on. I know this as my first one, which was working beautifully at the time, shut down and I spent an agonizing two months without stimulation waiting on the doctor to implant another. In my case, chronic back pain with shooting pain down the left leg, this device covers around 40-60% of the pain and has cut my opioid consumption by over 2/3. It is a wonderful device and I can’t say enough about the Medtronic company. Having it implanted is a semi barbaric procedure as you must be awake for the placement of the leads and they can’t deaden the area either because you have to be able to feel it and tell them if the stimulation is in the right spot or not. Oh, and each lead has several (6-8) electrodes on each, you only use two on each lead at a time. By energizing different leads they can “steer” the stimulation to cover the areas of pain.
Bueller here.... that thing that you said "why bother" as a space filler is not. It is a moisture getter.... basically a descant to absorb moisture. You may say... "but it's hermetic!" the fact is that nothing is actually hermetic and eventually moisture will enter the system. These chunks give the device longer life before failure. do a google search for medical getter (i know weird/silly name) or check www.jmprotech.com/protelec-getter-adsorbents-johnson-matthey
Wow, they make that stuff as inks, so you can just print it on the inside surface of the container. Neet
Getters aren't anything new. Nixie tubes and CRTs have always used them. Though they use a different material, the objective is the same: remove any impurities.
Great video. I've had two spinal fusions and long story short I have a Medtronic device implant to help with the pain. My unit has 16 electrodes implanted in the epidural sack around the spinal cord. The battery pack / computer in my case is in my butt and the electrodes are in my thoracic spine (t9 - t12). The unit is charged via am inductive charge unit (about once a week) and has a "usable life" of up to 10 years. I have several programs for different areas of pain but in short I couldn't live without it. Thanks for the breakdown, being a nerd myself it's great to see inside the device inside me/ Cheers. Medtronic I believe pioneered this technology.
Richard Boyce If you mean they took someone elses ideas and added to them, yes. But no they were not the first. I make the platinum tips that actually get implanted.
I've had one of these in me for about I years now. Truly an amazing device. The first ones that came out years ago had no internal battery. They were inductively powered via an external antenna/coil. The one I have is rechargeable, which is done inductively, about every other week. The sensation is sort of like an external TENS unit and at times can be annoying and can last for a few minutes after turning the device up. The latest units operate at a higher frequency that you can't feel but that still interferes/masks the pain signals. These operate in burst mode taking advantage of the effect lasting after it is turned off. These are not rechargeable, the battery lasting about 10 years.
Doing research on these pacemaker/neurostimulator.. Never manage to open one of them. It's really good to see this video. Thanks!
This was one of the most enjoyable teardowns in a while, keep up the good work Dave!
Ditto - I wanted you to open the two terminal part with the ceramic top.
I have a Medtronic pacemaker implanted about 6 years ago. Initially the batt life was estimated at 11 years. A year ago it dropped to about 9 yrs. It "paces" only about 1% - 5% of the time. (Could be above 70% for some.) PM keeps LOTS of data (mem is cheap). It's checked every 6 mos using electromagnetic communication to small device and Bluetooth connection to phone app.
John H I have a Medtronics Pacer also. Mine is just about at end of life and is pacing 100% of the time. The new one will be all Bluetooth enabled and will work with my iPhone. I was awake through the whole operation so I could cough at the Docs request at just the right time when placing the probes.
I have one in my body right now. I found out it didnt work effectively. Its been in more than 10 years,time to get it removed. I have a chronic pain issue from a kidney cancer surgery that went bad. I havent activated it in years. Glad you did a tear down .thanks.
Dave, it's NOT ultrasonically welded. It is a classic example of pulsed laser beam welding. Very-very rare stuff, as it is used in welding such things as medical equipment, special casing for space-grade applications, and in some avionics high precision mechanics. The idea is: this kind of weld is extremely reliable and re-crystallizes the material in the same way as an original metal that is being welded. Main benefit - absolute conformity in the material, therefore thermal and physical stress resistance is astonishingly superb.
*****My stimulator can be turned off or on with a magnet. It's a lot faster than waiting for the programmer to negotiate communications to shut it off or turn it on. Mine has 20 contact points connected to the electrode assembly in my middle back (spine) so they can tailor the effect. Mine is also rechargeable using a non contact coil. Thanks Dave!
sweet, i want a micro pacemaker and a skull transducer.
Wait is that supposed to happen or that's just a "feature" that you found accidentally while playing with magnets?
felixar90 they supplied a white powdercoated horseshoe magnet just for that purpose. Though I’m not sure why I would be waving magnets around my right ass cheek to accidentally find that out. Lol!
ah lol. Horseshoe? that's old fashioned. I wonder if it need to detect both poles or they just made it like that so it would be easily recognizable as a magnet.
Magnets sound kinda unsafe for turning something like that on or off.
God that battery is terrifying. I had a bad experience with a thionyl chloride battery once. It was a little 14250 and the guy needed a couple solder tabs welded onto it. I work at a battery store BTW. I thought "eh welding to lithium is dangerous but screw it" so I put on some safetly glasses as it was a button top and those always pop and shoot molten metal everywhere. Welded the top just fine. Took the glasses off and did the negative POP lots of sparks. I moved it to check the weld and Psssss get sprayed in the face. Thankfully I wear glasses normally. I would have lost an eye for sure as I watched the spray hit my lens on my right eye. This stuff is nasty! It becomes Hydrochloric acid when exposed to moisture/air and its a VERY exothermic reaction so not only did I have a temperature burn but a chemical burn across from basically my right temple to my left jaw line. What hurt was it pooled up in the crease between my nose and cheek. Oh and this stuff makes it very hard to breathe especially when its right under your nose. That was not a fun experience but we are all good now, no permanent damage and I learned some stuff.
Great story, of course not great but a great read. I has something quite terrifying happen like that but with superglue, seeing the jet approach my eye/pupil and I didn't close my eye in time. Thankfully wearing contact lenses and it all just slid of my eye.
OH damn! That could have been horrible. Imagine if you had dry eyes that day and it glued your lens on. I have no idea if thats even possible but still a nasty thought.
D J Wizard -- similar experience for me but with solder. I was desoldering a wire at a job back in college. The wire suddenly flicked up when the solder liquified and flung a tiny speck of molten solder directly into my eye. It didn't hurt much besides that aweful feeling of having a foreign particle in your eye. I rushed to the restroom and took out my contact to find a small blob of solder firmly stuck to the lens. The lense tore when I tried to pick the solder off. Big lesson learned. To this day, I wear eye protection religiously any time I'm desoldering, clipping leads or using power tools.
Pat Nick , Yeh man was all over the lens no way of removing it , it cured instantly. It went warm all I could feel was like fear at that point. It was very warm I remember just holding my eyelid and some heat on my hand.
I can relate to the solder, totally man. I had it also from removing components ( 'screeching' type removal and wire desoldering). But now I fear air pockets from soldering.
Always get something inbetween your eye and the object ey mate.
That's a real Bobby dazzlah. This was the best teardown I've ever seen.
I have a neuro stimulator implant for my back. Had it implanted in 7/2019 but it's a different brand and is rechargeable wirelessly. It's a big help with my messed up back and the pain it causes.
My wife has been using medtronic insulin pumps for almost 20 years. Not implanted but external. They have continued to get better and better to where they are pretty much a artificial pancreas. Her meter tells the pump what she needs and it delivers. I know there is more advanced versions out there that do more but for her it works great.
As an Aussie you could check out cochlear implants and their sound processors
Would be awesome if you would send the ASIC to electronupdate for decapping
thanks for the channel tip, i fucking love body implants and chip decapping, i was thinking about implanting a uno or a nano for some time now, that would be a nice combo together with an sdr, there's no test cheating when you are a cyborg connected to the internet.
+fss1704 CodysLab tried implanting a magnet in his finger. It worked for a while but then the magnet broke and his body rejected it and he ended up having to remove it. It was an interesting process to watch.
Yyyeeeessss ! was about to make a separate comment on this !
I agree!
Hey! I've been an EEVBlog subscriber for years and I have a Spinal Cord Stimulator implanted. Love this teardown. Mine is Boston Scientific Spectra. My EE professor and I had some fun discussing what kind of circuits it must have.
I will write up my experience and come back and post it.
Excellent video Dave! keep up the great work.
Thanks.
I've found you'll go through less dremel wheels by making sure you go *really* slowly, with minimal pressure. You get much more cut distance per wheel than if you try to rush.
My father actually just had something like this implanted in his back after a few failed back surgeries and a spinal fusion. Here's hoping it helps him with the pain, poor guy has been suffering for a long time, partial knee replacement too with another on the way.
Nice. A midnight EEVblog.
(for people in the BST / UTC time zone, at least. :p )
Start of the working day for Dave, Assuming he doesn't have it scheduled and is sleeping in.
That was so nerdtastic, i loved it thanks!
its neat how the heat from the dremel itself changed the color of the titanium. i always thought it required extreme heat over prolonged periods.
My mother had an implant installed a couple of years ago to treat Parkinson's Disease. The first one they implanted failed shortly afterward, and they had to do it over again. Sounds like a pretty involved procedure, especially since that one goes directly on the brain.
Hi Dave. These types of devices are also used to treat epilepsy
I worked for a pacemaker company for ten years in the '90s. The titanium clam shells are laser welded together.
Ah, interesting, thanks.
My friend had his pacemaker replaced and they let him keep his old one. Looked very similar. Great video.
Wow, this was interesting to watch. My wife has VNS implant to control her epileptic seizures ... a Cyberonics unit. She had it replaced about two years ago and she was allowed to keep the old unit. Looks a lot like this one. EDIT: On the cable ... when you have the unit replaced (to replace the battery), the lead isn't removed as well unless it's damaged or showing loss of conductivity. Instead it's simply detached from the old unit, and then attached to the new one ... hence, not having one to look at. We got to see them when we toured the manufacturer in Houston TX, and they are unbelievably small. Remarkable they can not only flex as much as they do without failure, but they can withstand being used over and over.
Yes, all these devices look very similar but can have vastly different functionality.
Interesting video Dave, thanks.
The reed switch is for post-mortem deactivation- you place a large magnet over the device to prevent any unsettling motor nerve functions.
Very interesting, thanks Dave. Im about to have one implanted in the UK. Its one of the new High Frequency devices which dull the pain with no side effect feelings. Plus its contactless charging. So i just dock myself with a pad, a bit like the Borg and recharge.
Looks almost exactly like the "neural stimulator" from Star Trek that gets stuck to people's foreheads.
Doctor McCoy used a neural stimulator to control Spock's body after his brain had been stolen by the Eymorgs in the "Spock's Brain" episode. That one wasn't one of the small forehead units.
This makes me want to open my grandfather's old pacemaker.
Interesting to actually see one of these. Im due to have one fitted into my back in december in the UK.
Requirements are simple, just needs a timer, a waveform generator, ability to adjust duty cycle, voltage would be around 2-3V (at a guess - stimulating a-fibres). The idea does kind of work, it's like rubbing your shin to relieve the pain after knocking it - the extra ascending afferent nerve activity from the electrical stimulation down-regulates at pain perception at spinal level. Trouble is you get something called 'neuronal plasticity' occuring where your body adapts to the level of stimulation and over a period of time electrostimulation becomes less effective as a therapy. The less it's used the better it works :-)
Antiphlogistine actually irritates your skin to distract you from the pain.
Why does your body get used to the neurostimulation but not the chronic pain tho? What's even the use of never ending pain that stops you from being able to do anything? Stupid broken brain. Intelligent design my ass.
A deceptively simple question with very complex answer(s). Neuropathic pain is 'inappropriate pain' - i.e., useless as a protective mechanism - the neural system has broken. Chronic pain does cause changes at spinal and supra-spinal centres, understanding how and why these changes occur is key to developing new treatments. Pain is an incredibly complex system and the body will adapt (either beneficially or detrimentally) to any kind of constant stimulation. I spent years in biomedical research trying to develop new treatments.
I have a Boston Scientific model in my back in 2010. It is the non-MRI safe version. The reason I heard that they are not MRI safe is not that the MRI will pull on the unit but instead the MRI can cause the wires and other bits to get hot. The hospital billed the insurance for $130,000 but the insurance company and hospital settled on $35,000 for my unit. I didn't pay a dime because I had already met my total out of pocket. It charges wirelessly and has a wireless remote control. For emergencies, these units can be turned off with a magnet but I never tested it. It feels like a tense unit when on. It goes to 100 on intensity but after 20, I am basically immobilized. Up near T4-T6 is where they installed the 32 electrode pad paddle. Depending on the program I have running, I can have 4 or more pads enabled at a time. The Boston Scientific rep was in the surgery the entire time to validate the install. The main issue I have is that when bending over the intensity doubles because the paddle moves closer to the nerve.
UPDATE: My son and I placed a magnet near the unit when on and it indeed turned it off; however, it would not turn it back on. Only the wireless remote would turn it back on. It cannot be turned on with a magnet for safety reasons say you were driving a car and it came on because of a magnet. You could possibly wreck because it can be quite immobilizing. Not too mention, anyone could turn it on if they had a magnet near you or I suppose you were in a high enough magnetic field
I had a neuro-stim and it sucked!!! So cool to see what I really had inside my body!!!
It hurts so bad going into my back and then it hurt even worse when I had to have it removed!!! It had to come out because my cervical vertebrae had started growing over the stimulator wires which were inserted into my cervical spine at C6-7. My Dr. had to scrape the excess bone growth off my entire cervical spine from C1-C7 and that was only a little over a year ago!!!
Hey Dave, my dad actually has a spinal cord stimulator from Medtronics that was implanted right around 2004. From what I know it has four parts.
1) The remote that he carries with him everywhere. This allows him to adjust the current going to different leads to help mask pain more appropriately.
2) The battery pack. This is implanted under his skin and he's actually going in to see about getting a new battery this year. It's roughly square and you can feel it in his back in the love handle area.
3) The stimulator unit. This is similar to what you tore down.
4) The leads that run from the unit to the nerves. These are very small but it lets my dad move around and get as much out of life as he can.
From years of talking with my dad, each unit adjusted to each patient after they have been implanted, but they can't even get to the permanent implant stage before having a trial "implant" where the leads run out of the skin to an external system that is housed in a purse or "fanny-pack".
An interesting aside is that about four years after my dad had his implant, it randomly spiked in delivered current one day while he was riding in a car. The best the doctor could figure is that is was likely triggered by something like a garage door opener.
this is a great video. once again kicking ass. also 15:56 made me check my desktop notifications.
Thanks Dave. I have a DBS (deep brain simulator) to help with Parkinsons and Dystronia. Sealed battery, but my hand held device has a small adjustment range of settings and bettery voltage reading. Battery life depends on settings (frequency - 130Hz for me); voltage or current mode. Oh it allowed me to cut way back on medicationn, which is great! Typically five years on my implant. Reed switch is used for Emergency Medical Folks to turn unit off, when taking a Electrocardiography (ECG or EKG).
I fill the electrolyte for other models of Medtronic batteries as as part of my job. Very cool to see one of the products it goes into taken apart.
Thx Dave
Good to see you finally got through it! ;)
And thank you so much for this thorough analysis! Had no idea the battery was something as specific as this!
Cool! We just talked about these devices in my Biomedical Engineering (EE Tech elective) course! Passed around some pacemakers and ICDs, very interesting devices. The little hex wrench thing does come in the box and is actually a torque wrench designed to get the correct amount of torque on the leads.
Not just used for pain. Deep brain stimulation is used to treat many conditions. Movement disorders are the prime use. Michel J fox has one fitted to treat his Parkinson disease.
My friend had one fitted to treat her movement disorder (tremor) and it's changed her life. Being able to write. Importantly being able to shout a round of beers and not spilling them all before getting them back to the table.
It's programmable with a device like a palm pilot, and also a hand controller that checks its battery level daily. I've specifically been told I'm not allowed to attempt to"hack into it" in any way, fair enough l guess...
It's has wireless recharging.
Not allowed to go gear welding or metal detectors. (I have no specifics)
Fitment was interesting with the patient being awake while the target point(s) where tested. They have a much larger device to calibrate the targets in the brain with screens and audio to help set the wires right.
My friend ended up having two target points, the first point didn't have much effect, the second point was ground zero and showed an improvement in her movement immediately.
It currently runs a 3.7 volts. Not sure about the current or the waveform. I was unable to get that information at the briefing. The doctor was rather surprised at my questions and the detail I was asking.
Cost was about $90k ?
The wire used looked like a thing coax and felt like silicon. It had a special bipolar probe on the end.
Would be interesting to know the electrode and stimulation differences between all these models with different intended functionality.
Can't you google that up? I had a couple of the unimplantable ones over the years. They have plenty of different modes of operation if recent models.... short and long freq pulses, even one mode that feels like electrical "spirals" through skin using all 4 electrodes.
The energy density of that battery is insane. 2.7 amp-hours in such a small package is amazing.
Yeah, when is that battery tech going to be in electric cars?
@@johnpossum556 hopefully never
The thing next to the battery might be to keep the humidity low. No case is 100 % tight, but you have to keep the humidity low the whole product life.
Im thinking about to get one of this devices to treat my phantom pain... thank you for this video, it helped me a lot!It would begrenz if you would make a video about the MedTronic device because that’s the exact one I’m thinking about (maybe a newer model but the same type)
I too once did a teardown... With that transmitter still in place.
Doing a psych evaluation now for one of these (or hopefully a newer smaller one) if insurance will pay for it
This was very stimulating.
Lithium-iodine batteries are also quite common in these applications.
I believe Medtronic used a 65c816 core in most of their implantable devices. They are one of only two implantable device manufacturers to make their own integrated circuits. Biotronik is the other.
Cochlear make their own ASIC's too.
I've got nerve pain from a blown disc in my neck and I've been contemplating getting one of these things so this was very interesting for me.
My mother had one of these, it was rechargable from a belt and it did help a bit but over-use made sortof numbness problems . i seen it looked about that shape you cut open.
That was interesting.
Where are the traces? Like are the pads cast in the ceramic and the traces internal.
I have one installed in my lower spine. Was on morphine , along with others for years. But now off of them and can think for myself again with a clear head. I can recharge mine last a while I turn mine off to sleep because in bed it can keep you awake. But will say one thing, it has saved my life. The morphing that I took every day was way to much.
I have the Boston Scientific one wired into my lower spine and was about to get it wired into my upper when covid. It helps a lot. Charging it every week is a bit of a pain. Being an RF engineer when he started talking about modulation, frequency, amplitudes, etc and got to talking he showed me a lot about the programming that goes into it and left some options open for me to customize things within safe ranges. So yeah technically a cyborg. I have a remote, serial number and firmware revision now.
Learned a new technical term today. Blob it down. :-)
Widely used in the industry.
I studied bioengineering in school - one interesting bit about the implantable devices is the materials science that needs to be taken into account. some materials like aluminum can trigger nasty responses in the body which can kill you. other materials the body has no idea there's a foreign body implanted so no scar tissue forms etc.. anyhow, lots of interesting science goes into the development of these things beyond the electronics. lots of physiology, immune response etc..
There is a switch that you can use to adjust when general pain level is increased. I think there's 3 settings in some models
Having my head sawed open to install that thing would make the pain tolerable. My neurological pain went away when I got divorced in 1988.
"Coming out of surgery believing that Solar roadways and Ubeam are good ideas"........this had me laughing hard
Grandmother had one, pretty sure by another company. Said it didn't help.
Hers had a handheld control that communicated with the implant @ 125KHz.
In the "patient guide", they tell all about what it does and how it works, and what I found interesting, data from the trials. They gave a list of problems experienced, and how many experienced that problem. Each individual problem only came to a small percentage, but if you added it all up it came to somewhere around 40% of people that had some issue with the device, causing improper operation (ie, not doing what it should, that is, relieve pain).
I also found it humorous that the manual actually said you should avoid, among other things, airport scanners and anti-theft alarms such as found in retail establishments. It actually said to seek assistance to bypass these devices.
Very interesting teardown.
Hopefully medical science will someday make these obsolete. But until then it's great that the option exists.
Remember these are programable. The reason for the electronics. Different frequencies to set the tones in the device.
It will be interesting to see second device teardown. And see fully extracted psb tho..
Medtronic.. my sister used to work there back in the 90's. Making heart valves.
Wow that thing is HUGE. way bigger than I thought it would be.
Yeah, pretty big. Newer models would no doubt be smaller.
15:58 lol
I thought that was my computer!
Same! I had to rewind a couple times to be sure :)
Haha
I did the same damn thing. XD
Then I went down through the comments to see if I was the only one lol
Didn't confuse me - I use Linux. :P
Did you connect the power in reverse? Seems that way from the note on the battery polarity and the wire colors. Also, not going further with tearing down the battery?
I actually work for a company that builds some stimulus generators for neurons also the neuronal readout, maybe they could arrange you some broken model for teardown (the new ones are ridiculously expensive!) Would you theoretically cover the shipping costs?
Best regards
Thanks. Yeah, I'd cover shipping, email me details.
I think your next piece of gear should be a stout vise. For holding your thing, and other things.
Hey Dave, this was a great teardown! You are starting to get into my field of Neural/Biomedical Engineering. It is a promising field but full of problems to solve. One of which is power consumption for a neural stimulator. The current used to stimulate can be substantial(ish) depending on the electrode being used. The current you saw that the system draws sounds like the standby current which is kind of disturbingly high. When stimulating it is great to use a few 10's of microamps but can get up to milliamps which is not great. Additionally, you are considering a DC waveform which it is usually not going to be. The whizz bang people nowadays are looking into the killohertz frequency with varying shapes which only adds to the power consumption.
Pacemakers last around 10-15 years, depending on how often the unit has to shock the heart to keep the rhythm steady. But a neurostimulator has to send shocks essentially constantly, so the battery doesnt last as long. In certain situations where the electrical system if the heart has to be burned out due to tachycardia, the battery typically lasts about 5 years. I would expect the neurostimulator to last a similar time.
The leads typically last about 20-25 years, so if you are in your 50's, you can expect to have to have the leads replaced when you are in your 70's.
I think that Reed switch is a power switch. Probably held open by a magnet after manufacture and before use
It's got multiple functionality, not just power
Both monitor and manipulation of brain functions can be done wirelessly today (and are, on a massive scale), no bulky implants needed.
I was hoping that this was going to be a radioactive pacemaker but I guess this will do.
Dave, if you would like some other neuro stimulators to compare this too, there is a store down the street from me that has a wide selection available. I wouldn't go there after dark, however...
Taking that apart was a pain in the neck!
Ah?! Ah? Am I too late?
I think the reed switch inside the unit is to activate it just before it is installed. The box the unit is stored in has a magnet in it to keep unit totally off until ready for use. Once "unboxed" , the reed switch closes and now ready for use. Not sure if you can get a strong enough magnet through the layers of skin to actually deactivate the unit once installed. It all cause the unit is completely sealed, disposable as well. Need a way keep it off completely while in storage, even though storage times should be short. I be pissed some surgeon put one in that been sitting on the shelf for 2 years or more.
Try loading the output connections with a capacitive load (say somewhere between 1-100nF). It is likely a current driven output.
Also as far as I know implantables tend to not be rechargeable due to possible expansion and durability issues. It's not like inductive interfaces are uncommon so charging to top up might be practical if not for the possibility of blowing up.
Yound Player question: that RF-Receiver inside the metal case.. how is that possible?
was the battery completely dead? You couldn't charge it up at all? I was hoping to have seen if it was chargeable again
How does the construction quality of this compare to avionic electronics? Thank you
have you done a teardown of analog or digital hearing aids? I have some you can have if you're interested.
that white rubber thing could be there just to make sure that the battery doesn't make contact with the connector bit and to make sure that the battery doesn't touch the case and short
I'm pretty sure it is a laser-welded shell, not ultrasonic.
Yes, people who have worked on these have confirmed laser welded in an inert gas environment.
Medtronic? Minnesota represent!
12:48 - Possibly some "Getter" material?
Used to absorb the last bit of moisture after baking / hermetic sealing?
I worked in a few telecoms factories which used hermetically-sealed devices for fibre comms etc.
Prior to using the lidding machine, the devices would normally go for a 24-hour bake at around 60-80 C.
The whole mini oven full of devices would then go into an airlock on the lidding machine, so the insides of the devices never saw outside air again.
(the lidder was filled with helium, IIRC.)
Most of the more sensitive active devices usually contained a small slug of Getter material too.
Makes sense, but didn't seem like that sort of material.
My mom has one of those installed. And reciently had to have the last one replacesed because the batery bdied in the first one dur to damade to the leades.
Hi Dave. Can you make a video of the PrimeAdvanced medtronic? The 16 channel one. Thanks! Keep up the good video's :)
Umm. The case of the battery is positive. When you hooked up the power supply you put the black wire (negative) where the battery case (positive) was connected to. Did you swap the red/black colors?
Could it not communicate by pulsing the reed switch?
MRI compatible implantables? How does that work? Non-metallic casings, I take it, but what about the semiconductors? Wouldn't they get damaged?
Dr Dreadful's cozy Frankenstein lab :P