@@stephennorcross I would agree that the money aspect is easily the biggest issue here but I also think as the video stated that there is also hesitation to how competitive Andretti would be when they haven't done great in Indycar, a spec series in many respects, and now they will be tasked to creating many bespoke parts in F1 that they never had to worry about before. I am not saying it can't be done but if we only have their Indycar track record to go by then we see why the chips are stacked against them. I would love a new entrant as much as the next guy but I can sort of see things from both sides, it's not just as clear cut as it being just the money pot.
@@EchoMirage72 Which is why Andretti is still racing in indy car because of their rich history, same as Ferrari, Williams and Mclaren in F1. Understood?
"Andretti hasn't won the indycar championship in over a decade" ...I really hope that isn't an argument because (gestures wildly in Ferrari's general direction)
One of the worst takes by a reputable outfit I've seen. How they can spout that while ignoring the history of F1 is astounding. You know they're trying too hard when they had to pull that out of their asses.
Nine F1 teams don't win the championship each year, not much of an argument against the notion of one's ability to be competitive. And only two teams have won championships in the past 11 seasons (just off of memory). Those teams must be really scared that Andretti could dominate otherwise why not welcome one more team they can crush...come on guys if Andretti isn't let in to participate, don't come back to race in the US...just leave.
No kidding. It's a wild claim to make. You can apply the same criterion to Penske in NASCAR (2015), Ferrari (2008), Williams (1997), McLaren (1998), Aston Martin/Tracing Point/Force India/Spyker/Jordan (none), Haas (none), Renault(2005), Alpha Tauri/Toro Rosso (none), Alfa Romeo/Sauber (none). Don't hear the race saying those teams should be sent away because of their championship futility..
Haas is not in the competitive league as Andretti is in racing. Williams has been in the decline and their faith downwards has kinda been sealed since the passing of the man who made that team what it was. Idk if Andretti would compete in the front but it can definitely be mid table and even compete for best of the rest if everything goes right for them.
Uh...it's EXACTLY because of how poorly the bottom teams perform that Andretti has a higher bar to pass. It only makes sense if Andretti can pull in more revenue than they take. That means a highly competitive team right off the bat and long-term. That's a huge risk for existing teams to make when they're already making money in giant piles.
There isn’t a problem besides greedy team owners. If GM wanted to partner with one of the current 10 teams, similar to what Ford is doing, they’d have no issue with it.
The problem has always been with Andretti not being seen, rightly or wrongly, to have the commitment, knowledge, ressources to be a bona fide F1 team. Badging an engine with a name does nothing to belay these fears. The existing teams have already proved their capabilities, so noone cares if they badge an engine a certain way.
Correct. If GM did the same as Ford they would be welcome. If the Andretti/GM bid was a proper major manufacturer team bid they'd be welcome. As it is it's Andretti with a GM badge on it. There is a huge difference, Red Bull have nothing to prove, they are proven winners and a Ford badge won't change that. Andretti have no F1 pedigree, and in all likelihood will be running around at the back of the field.
The dilution is not just "one of the key issues", it is the primary, and I believe "only" issue that the other teams have. They just don't want to have their prize money reduced with another team. Of course, if the sport grows as a result of the new team, then the teams won't have dilution of their prize money in the long run. It seems to me that the existing teams that are against it, are being very short sighted.
You said it yourself: 'If the sport grows as a result of the new team' A completely uncompetitive team running behind everyone else and folding after 2 seasons because sponsors leave does nothing to grow the sport. Which brings us right back to the worries about competitiveness being linked to the prize money.
The irony is that the teams, along with F1 and the FIA came up with the $200 million entrance fee to minimalize any prize money dilution that would occur. Andretti has the money, and has no problem with handing it over, and yet the teams are still using it as an excuse.
@@curnath This isn’t gonna be a manor or a caterham team, this is General Motors and Andretti joining, which is much more promising than most other teams in the past. Haas we’re fast out of the box, Andretti and General Motors can certainly replicate that, if not do better.
@@AustinG29152 Yeah, it's Andretti with a GM-sticker as it seems. Haas were immediatly competitive because they basically bought their car from Ferrari, hyperboly speaking, which is not the modus operandi Andretti seems to have in mind. I don't know if Andretti would be competitive, or at least have the commitment to stick it out for a while, but i can understand the Teams worrying about it.
What is greedy about a company trying to make money? That is perfectly reasonable. I highly doubt that if you owned those teams you would decide not to make money just to help Andretti enter f1.
Yea they are greedy - and they are right to be for it. Andretti just wants to come in during the good times and leech of the sports when it is growing, not when it was in trouble just a few years ago. Hopefully they will keep the chancer out.
There needs to be two more teams added to the grid so four more driving seats can be added. There's so many talented drivers out there that need to get an opportunity and 21 and there's just not currently enough seats.
I agree there not enough seats but will four more available seats just bring four more pay to drive drivers?? That’s my concern. In football the best rise to the top, in racing the money rises to the top.
It is a money issue, the teams made it very clear on that, Andretti already attempted to buy an existing team they said no on every front, leaving him no choice but to join this way, Andretti or GM didn't do much wrong going this route because the teams themselves forced their hands. The difference is pretty obvious though, one wants to make a team, the other chooses to make an engine not a team and the teams accepted because it doesn't harm their prizes pool unlike a new team entering, so at this point what the use of adding new teams, with these budget rules in place to entice them but then turn around and say "we don't want you here" sounds like a snake oil scam to me at this point. I don't know why the commentators on this channel make it seem like a complicated issue when the answer is quite frankly right in front of you, at best the video would be less then 5 minutes at most to explain an obvious situation.
@@LimitPro1 True, sry, i wasn't exactly constructive. Neither Ford nor GM are trying to build a team or an engine. They want to lend their name to a team, without actually doing anything in terms of car-developement. They are indeed doing the exact same thing. The difference is the team they are doing it with. Everyone knows Redbull can be competitive, lord knows they proved it. They will actually built their own engine, so noone cares if they call it a Ford. Noone knows if Andretti can be competitive. Everyone is afraid they can't. They would buy their engines from Renault and put a Cadillac-sticker on it. The teams are afraid that Andretti comes in, takes part of their price money, folds after two years because they are running nowhere near competitiveness and the sponsors jump ship, and will have done absolutely nothing to grow the sport as a whole.
@@curnath Isn't Ford working on the revised electric system by 2026 so that they can advertise their road car? To me, that's a major difference between GM's approach and Ford's approach. ICE development is dead for road car. If GM is willing to take a similar approach like Ford, and said Andretti-Cadillac will only use the Renault engine as a bridge deal, then it's a completely different story. As it stands, I consider it more of a PR stunt than an actual effort from GM.
The FIA is open to welcome new teams to the sport but most of the existing ones dont want to lose prize money and the value of their exsiting team. Its about money at the end of the day.
Yeah, we know... Heaven forbid teams have to actually be competitive to win enough prize money to stay on the grid. Williams, Haas, Alpha Tauri, looking at you.
Whilst Andretti is not helping itself with its approach, the usual F1 politics is the big one. What the Andretti situation comes down to is that the teams don’t want to loose money. Also, they don’t want anymore taking all their power from them.
The problem with Andretti is that the teams dont want more competition and have veto power on new teams. Everything else they say about it is just their way of justifying that.
Fords partnership came to a surprise to me but not really with Cadillac wanting into F1 so Ford thought they had to do it too. But with Andretti and Cadillac partnership, I have high hopes they will be a middle grounds team for sure after 2 years in F1. Cadillac looked great in the LMP class at 24hr of Daytona and with that engineering behind them in F1, I think everyone will be surprised.
So a team gets more money, F1 gets to grow it's fan base in the US by slapping the Ford logo anywhere.... But true fans get nothing. Still the same 10 teams and the same engine manufacturers..... True hypocrisy
It is a money issue but look at it this way and forget the amount involved....your boss says we are going to hire a new employee, but we don't have any more money to pay them so we are going to take money from everyones salary to cover their salary - how happy would you be? Everyone is saying the teams are being greedy but this is not about them wanting more money but to keep the money they have...if F1/Liberty/FIA want more teams then fine, increase the pot appropriately is all they have to do.
GM should just commit to making their own engine and electrical power system for Andretti to use, that way their combined bit is almost certain to be accepted since they would have real skin in the game rather than just a branding deal. If Cadillac can make a push as a engine manufacturer in Le Mans Hybrid cars then they have the technical capabilities to make an F1 engine too.
So then why allow HAAS, Williams, Redbull and Alpha Tauri, and McClaren, and right now Alfa Romeo, then onto the grid? Under the "no real skin in the game" argument all 9 of those teams don't manufacture their own engine.
Right so then why the double standard for Andretti? At least they have a possibility of committing to the 2026 engine regulations unlike the other teams mentioned except Red Bull and Alpha Tauri.
@@456MrPeople Well, it's because GM cars don't use renault engine, or anything similar to that. Alfa Romeo used Ferrari engine in their road car, Aston Martin used Mercedes engine in their road car, Williams and Mclaren both have long history of using various engine suppliers. And GM? Do you seriously think it would be a good advertisement for GM when their branded car is not using a GM engine? Don't forget, F1 is the biggest ads billboard in the world, it would mean nothing if it doesn't advertise, and we all know how bad a GM badged reanult would look, not great if you ask me.
@@EchoMirage72 In some sense you are right, because obviously it holds weight too to be a customer to the big manufacturers that already exist. And in theory Andretti becoming a customer to Renault would be just as big for them as any other customer is to the other current manufacturers who benefit from selling their engines. On the other hand however, you can't look away from the fact that already being 1 out of the 10 team has its privileges that just don't apply to anyone trying to be the 11th or 12th team on the grid. Having your own in house engine program shows that you have enough skin in the game to stick around long enough to make all the other teams benefit financially even if it means they have to give up part of their current revenue share. Seeing ultimate commitment from any new entity is probably a must for the other teams and F1 as a whole to believe that you have what it takes to commit to being good in the sport long term, rather than just trying your hand at the shiny new thing for as long as you feel like it and having the relative ability to pull the parachute at any time and leave the sport in the dust if you aren't competitive enough.
So when Red Bull rebranded their engine has a TAG Heuer even though it was a Renault do people get mad and kick tag Heuer out of the sport (really should have done considering how much Rolex pays the formula 1)
Haas and Williams are A LOT closer to the leaders pace than Marussia, HRT, and Caterham were. Minardi used to be 5s a lap slower than the Ferraris in the early 00’s. It’s possible that Andretti comes in and is that much slower.
@@pitchforkmechanic7797 Andretti is a much bigger organization than both Williams and Haas combined. They're involved in various Motorsport series and it looks more like most F1 teams feel threatened that Andretti might become more competitive than they have been for the past decade...
@@deerlord2363 You do realize that you don't just show up in F1 and trade punches with the big boys right, even Audi the works team is going to struggle to keep up. And if Andretti is so good why haven't they had the results the last couple years ? if they where smashing IndyCar with multiple championships you would have a valid point but as it stands there "best driver" doesn't even qualify for a super license because of performance. Its not about being a big company its about having the right team.
@@deerlord2363 You clearly never watched Formula 1 in the past. Both Toyota and BMW gave it a try during the 2000s. Both bigger organizations than Andretti. What did they gain? Nothing but misery. Toyota never won a race, BMW won only a handful of them. Both never even came close to winning either championship. So, what makes you think Andretti will be any different? To begin with they’re not even a car manufacturer. They’re just a racing team with a last name. They have absolutely no backing at all. Even if Cadillac is willing to partner up with them. It’s already been stated that would most likely use a Renault engine. So, why even bother?
Remember when an energy drink company bought Jaguar? Good times! Maybe we misunderstood FIA’s request for ‘new teams’ - they want major manufacturers to rebrand the currently-struggling privateers instead. More sponsorship money, better visibility, and nobody cries over splitting the prize money.
Not scared of andretti... They just don't want more teams. Andretti could have bought Williams, Haas or even Sauber but they didn't, they thought they could just waltz in because of their name
All your points are valid and make complete sense. I agree. From US race fan point of view it appears as both sides are playing their usual parts. Andretti is the brash, loud, forward American. Then F1 plays it’s European part. I think if and when all parties finally sit down and really talk it will get worked out. Both sides stand to make a lot of money from even more American exposure. Andretti is truly a house hold name n America even if you have never seen a race.
I see what the race did here. They know the reason like we all old f1 fans know. Just to spark up arguments and to bring in new American fans who are new. I can already see comments of new American fans getting misleaded. All you need to know is antretti entered as the 11th team. Ford partnered with an existing team. More teams mean more splitting of prize money. Development of F1 car and maintaining a team is already very expensive and the introduction of budget cap. Teams have been struggling to not exceed the budget cap.
The entrance money for new teams, which Andretti has and will put up was created to offset the dilution of prize money so I'm not sure why this strange argument keeps getting made.
@@EchoMirage72 your argument brings a good point. If what we know is true then 200m for the entry fee. Setting up new pit garage should cost a bit not sure but let's say according to 2016(the only info I found as of for now) 1st get 148m and Ferrari cuz Ferrari gets 200m and last one gets 56m. Things are not looking good. 200m entry fee can balance out a season's cash problem. You have to remember f1 calender is much bigger than ever. Profits will vary too. There are more teams strugglely with money and big teams loves money.
As I understand it, the Renault engine deal is only to serve as a stop gap so Andretti can field a car in 2025. This gives the team and GM time to develop their own 2026 engine under the new concord agreement which is what has attracted other engine manufacturers like Audi. The current turbo hybrid is not useful for engine development for a manufacturer. But starting in 2026, with the loss of the MGU-H makes for a more practical use of development resources for engine manufacturers.
How tight is F1's profit margin that they are unable to increase the prize pool, if they were to add an eleventh team? I know the individual teams barely make any money - if any, but most of them are there for marketing anyways. A racing family name would be nice .
If Andretti pays 200M to enter, sucks terribly, and pulls out after a few short years... will F1's current teams actually lose any money? Will their decrease in revenue sharing end up greater than splitting 200M?
They dont fear Andretti. They dont want to dilute the prize money pool. Andretti could finish 5 laps down on everyone else or retire every race and still reduce the Teams prize money
I see you might be new to the f1 world. Like the other people said.. It's about the prize pool. Let's say 30 billions is the total price pool. The prize pool is divided according to the constructor's position. Ignoring the fact, regarding extra bonuses to certain teams as legacy payments. The teams will now get less money. F1 is already very expensive.
Why would they fear the competition? Seriously,Andretti is racing in 100 different series without bringing in any real results... Why would it be any different with Andretti/GM joining the arguably most competitive and complicated race series there is? Imo many fanboys are just being delusional..
Let's not pretend that Andretti is already contending for racing win and that it is a guarantee that they would be competitive. If Andretti fails, which can very well happen, American viewers probably think it's rigged, which they already think F1 is, and the market would shrink. Have any of those Andretti hailers in the comment section ever thought of this situation? Like at all?
Its hard to expect any good things from team who is only racing in series that has pre-built cars. Of course teams dont want to dilute money, but it can be also seen as non-serious project that might unbalance competetive state F1 are in right now. And we had quite a few new teams in 2010, which were mostly roadblocks for faster teams.
Andretti have galactic amounts of resources compared to even Haas, the most recent F1 new entry (which, may I remind you, had a pretty successful first three years before going down the shitter)
That's exactly what the teams want. Which is why "democratic" racing series fail, the teams want what is best for them which is often not what is best for the sport.
Which makes them look like greedy people who would never honor the agreement they had in place with F1 when it comes to letting new teams in. What's the point in even having provisions like having potential entrants pay the $200,000,000 anti-dilution fee when you're going to complain about money being diluted? I wish it would be as simple as F1 adding Andretti and telling the other teams to suck it up.
One thing I don't get in this deal is what happens to any IP or commercial secrets Honda may have put into building the ICE. Surely Ford will be able to get some insights into Honda's engine design as part of this partnership and if so that must be a bitter pill to swallow for Honda.
I guess that's on Honda for pulling out of F1 for the umpteenth time. I don't get their game at all. What's next for Honda? A new works team that lasts a year?
I dont understand how these deals can even be compared. Ford will have little or no effect on F1 as a engine partner with RB. The F1 teams dont think Andretti will bring anything to the table to make up for the revenue split with one more (below average) team.
I for one am glad that Andretti have gone public with their struggles to join the F1 grid. It further proves how shambolic the FIA are how much they have lost control of F1, the teams and Liberty Media.
You would think that if a major vehicle manufacturer was going to join F1 they would maybe develop their own engine. That would probably show their commitment to the sport and make it easier to get in.
The deal was the Renault would supply the engine for the first year and GM would develop there own afterwards. Not sure why this isn't mentioned in the video. It is against the rules to develop or work on an F1 engine before entering.
There's no reason to R&D an engine for one year before the engine rules change. It doesn't make financial sense for a team to do so, which is where the Renault engine would come in. Andretti will probably be midfield to back marker for 2025 as a result, but we'll see if it carries over into 2026.
@wearetherace IMO, if F1 can't accept Andretti and Cadillac, then go away. No Miami, No Vegas, No COTA, please leave. If US venues are acceptable and you want to increase your market share in the US, fine, but it's now a package deal. I've worked on legacy F1 cars, I've followed F1 for decades, but I'm willing to walk away.
REd Bull ran a Renault engine with Astom Martin bagding? No one said a word. And Haas has a chassis built by Dallara and uses Ferrari parts for almost allof the rest of the car. So neither of these arguments hold water
1) Everyone knew exactly that Redbull had what it takes, lord knows they have proved it. 2) Haas was the last team that basically just slipped in before some pretty big changes in managment, and then was lucky to be able to prove its competitiveness. I doubt they would let them in today.
Both of those teams weren't new teams,red bull bought Jaguar and Haas bough marussia! Noone would have a problem if Andretti would buy Williams or alpha Tauri to join.they are just a little bit reserved on new teams joining...
No media outlet seams to mention that the existing teams all signed a Concorde agreement in 2020 that allows for thirteen teams to take a place on the grid. An agreement is another word for a contract where I come from .
The teams are so adamant an 11th team on the grid would result in a lower cut of the prize money that they fail to see how much bigger the prize pot would be. Andretti was already a highly marketable asset, then they hooked General Motors Cadillac (one of the worlds biggest and most technologically advanced car manufacturers ever) to sweeten the deal. The question should be: why are the teams favouring the current cut of a sizeable revenue stream when they could be feasting on a monstrous revenue stream for less than a 1% cut reduction? The only thing hypocritical about the big teams resistance to what is undoubtedly good for the sport is that their sponsorship figured alone cover not just the budget cap, but their drivers enormous salaries. The real winners by the additional revenue brought in by Andretti GM would be the small teams. So not only do the current top teams feel threatened by Andretti, they feel threatened by the potential growth of the current smaller teams.
The f1 teams are trying to eliminate the Andretti bid because they see that this "privateer" team have racing pedigree and are a potential threat to their prize pot. If it was a team like Manor, for example, trying to get in now they'd probably dismiss the bid without as much fanfare. That's how I see it anyway. If Andretti makes it to F1 I will be rooting for them because they've overcome every possible hurdle the other teams have thrown at them to do so.
Ford comes in as an 'engine suplier' to Red Bull. The amount of teams does not increase, the prise mooney does not dilute. Andretti-Cadillac is to become the 11th team and as such is diluting the prize money. Audi-Sauber is the same story as Red Bull-Ford. Is this so hard to understand?
I doubt it's Andretti, I think its more likely adding to the grid... If they are going to let anyone join the Grid, it's going to be a 'Major' manufacturer and 'new' engine on the grid not an 'independant' who built their name in racing trying to find a 'loophole' in getting some 'manufacturer' branding to buy his way in to F1. They have to have a 'standard' they would have to meet to even 'entertain' the idea of expanding to even more chaos on the Circuits and less 'reward' at the end of it....
Other teams being greedy and not wanting to split the money with another team is the sole reason new teams don't get added. Andretti deserves to try out an F1 team.
Comparing success in IndyCar and F1 is very myopic. Vastly different circumstances. Indycar and NASCAR are closer than Indycar and F1. Indycar is a spec series meaning all the cars are essentially the same across the teams. And it is a stretch to say McLaren is ahead of Andretti in Indycar. McLaren finished 7 and 10 in standings, Andretti was 8, 9, 13
I propose a new adjective to describe decisions that are safe, stick to the status-quo but are invariably short sighted: Ecclestonian. A perfect way to describe the teams' in regards to the Andretti/Cadillac bid.
OK this will be controversial but.......I think that 10 teams and 20 drivers is already more than most people can maintain a genuine interest in. I don't really see how an 11th or 12th team will increase interest. We already have 3 out of 10 teams - Williams/Haas/Alpha Tauri - that have no real prospect of being competitive in the near future. If somebody wants to come into F1 let them buy one of those like Audi has with Sauber or invest in it like Stroll has with Aston Martin. If somebody wants to cash in on North American F1 interest there is already an American team that seems to be permanently short of money - Haas. The focus should be on reducing further the gap between the existing 10 teams not expanding. F1 is not a charity and the fewer uncompetitive teams that are on the grid the greater the interest will be.
You've got a fair point, but the same could be said about the number of races. I don't have time to watch every race weekend and I'm sure that I'm not alone. I mostly watch European, American and Middle East races, but sometines just the sunday race.
Amazing the level of resistance there is to the Andretti family. Without Mario I think it is safe to say no one in the US would give a s**t about F1. Without Mario there would be no Austin, Miami or Vegas. F1 needs to get it head out of its backside and come to grips with the fact that if you want success in the US then you need to let Andretti in. If you don’t we can get off this wagon just as fast as we got on!
The world would love it if Americans got out of f1, Austin is mediocre, miami is disgusting, Vegas will follow suit and haas suck so by all means bye bye
You guys will also be very efficient at getting off the bandwagon when Andretti fails to crack the top of the grid, which is why teams and the ownership are skeptical. Let's be honest, you guys would 100% think F1 is targeting at Andretti if they failed to be competitive by 2026, and lose all the interest, which is the same as the worst outcome if F1 doesn't let Andretti in, except now all the other 10 teams will also be unhappy. So essentially it's worse than not letting Andretti in.
What keeps coming to my mind is why is the Andretti / Cadi combo using a Renault engine so bad? Aston Martin runs the Mercedes engine, Alfa Romeo runs the Ferrari engine. I just think that every hurdle that gets passed by Andrettii / Cadi, then the F1 teams come out and say "Well..uh...you can't run a branded engine." So if they fix that, next the teams will come out "Uhhhh...you can't use parts you buy from other teams (despite Haas using a ton of Ferrari parts)" if they fix that it'll be "For your first year you aren't allowed to run a front wing"
2 questions: - why is Red Bull not continuing with Honda? Because have signed up to remain an engine supplier so why have they lost the Red Bull partnership - How does the Aston Martin brand work? They are just a title sponsor like Alfa right?
I think the biggest, not outspoken, point against andretti is the fear they will leave the minute popularity decreases. I am of the believe that if a company like Porsche or BMW (well they wont, BMW is very clear about having 0 interest, but still) announce their plan to launch a new F1 team by 2026, and thus be the 11th team - there will be no opposition at all. I dont believe the teams actually tell their actual critism through the media. yes, the dillution is a factor - but one could ague that Andretti could be a massive force in raising the popularity in the US - and with that media money and thus the pot to split between the teams. F1 tried to break through in the US for decades, needed a half ass documentary like Drive to Survive to manage that.. and with Andretti that could be made more easy. So I dont think that the dillution of money split is the main critic. Just the main point being put through the media
If Andretti's results in indycar are one of the limiting factors in them not being allowed in then f1 really does have a problem with outsiders. If f1 allows gm to join an existing team like ford has done that proves it even more. It feels like a "you can only join the club if you're teamed up with one of us" situations and to me that's exactly what not allowing outsiders is. Andretti not being competitive as a reason to not let them join is also invalid to me with williams and haas toiling around the back of the grid. If the f1 teams didn't have a problem with outsiders they wouldn't use those arguments. F1 teams don't want more competition and they don't want their winnings being diminished in any way. That's the only real reason Andretti hasn't been given the go ahead and stating anything else is just beating around the bush. An American team with an American manufacture is the closest f1 is going to get to a perfect candidate for a new team and the f1 teams know that and are looking for every single reason to diminish it.
Do you understand that Ford is basically only a sponsorship for red bull?? They could've choosen Dacia if they wanted to...an existing team can run their own business as it will! A new team joining is something that would affect every other team...what makes you think Andretti would be competitive in f1 ? Looking at his 100 different outfits in all of this seasons it doesn't look like he's bringing in the results. Yet you are hyping them up as if they would be the next title contender...I hope they let them in so you realize how delusional you are...
@@supmikpaddleboarding5871 I'm looking at it from a point of if people want the sport to grow new teams will need to be brought in. Andretti fits the bill perfectly and nitpicking them feels like gatekeeping. They have jumped over every hurtle it feels like yet the only people who don't wont them there are other teams. They have managed to get the same type of manufacture sponsorship as redbull (though not making their own power units) and they are looked down on it while redbull is praised. Its gatekeeping plain and simple.
It's a good thing you mentioned Andretti's results in other categories. Obviously they're a well known racing family and they have the pedigree. But results are important and struggling in 100 different categories (all likely "easier" than F1), doesn't bode well for a potential F1 team.
and yet Williams can go without a championship for 25 years without any complaints... not a valid argument honestly. Ferrari, McLaren, Renault/Apline all have gone 15+ years too
@@JacobBanman That's a fair argument, but you can't realistically ban teams who haven't won a championship in a while. If you can prevent potentially mediocre teams to enter is another thing.
@Jay I what defines potentially mediocre, though? That's the problem... Let's say Andretti comes in and is able to beat out Haas or Williams by seasons end, does that make them mediocre given it is their first season in the sport, or does that show just how mediocre Haas or Williams are? You can't really guage mediocrity without letting them try.... Andretti has 17 collective championships, which is actually more than Ferrari has in its entire F1 history... seems only fair they get a shot one would think
@Jake Banman I see your point. But if they're mediocre on a ton of different categories, how likely is it that they'll be good in F1, which is arguably tougher than the rest? Don't get me wrong, I think they should be able to join, but I also understand the concern about how good they'll be and how long they'll stick to the sport. And yes, the ultimate answer is "let them try". But too many unsuccessful _let them tries_ will ultimately lower the category of the sport (even more than what the new rules and amount of races are)
@@JacobBanman That's a flawed argument. Imagine if Williams were a new team trying to join the sport now. They'd be laughed at. Same with Haas, despite the fact they did join only 6 years ago. Neither of these teams would be accepted into the sport today... they're already here is the problem
That's the point. Andretti would be the new 'Alfa Romeo'-team in terms of competitiveness, or at least that's what everyone is afraid of. That in turn would do absolutely nothing to grow the sport, because the team would likely fold after 2 seasons for a lack of sponsors.
@@curnath yeh true I get that point. But why not let them compete if they check all the boxes and then judge how competitive they are. I mean look at the great Ferrari, they had the biggest budget in F1 for a long time and still have nothing to show for since Kimi.
How is the producer incapable of comprehending the difference between Andretti adding a new team to the grid (which was the primary opposition due to financial logistics) and Ford being added on to an existing team which has been happening yearly. They are extremely different scenarios and calling Redbull Hypocritical is ridiculous because it’s not the same action and doesn’t have the same impact on the grid as the Andretti proposition. 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
Andretti could bring in revenue that would make Haas look like parasites. NO ONE in the US is tuning in to root on Haas as back markers. I'd rather see Andretti racing as mid field car than the joke that is Haas
And all the hype would be over as soon as you'd realize Andretti/GM is just the next Backmarker team... What makes you think they would be somewhat competitive? Just look at the poor results Andretti has in the various series he's racing in...
One has to wonder why Andretti just hasn't made an offer to buy HASS? Not to long ago Gene Hass had clearly lost interest in the sport that he thought he would be able to buy (albeit cheaply) his way to the front of the grid. The budget cap and the redistribution of prize money has seen the 'value' of the teams skyrocket recently, and you'd have to think that Hass I just waiting for the right offer. Maybe he DID get an offer, didn't like it, and so has garnered the support of other teams to hinder Andretti diluting the sport even further if they didn't want to buy an existing team. Food for thought.
The Gt-40 wasn't built by ford, and lost Le mans just as much as it won, and lost the overall championship to Ferrari. The Cosworth Dfv was that, a Cosworth. The only thing ford about it was the money. The only time ford entered F1 was with stewart/Jaguar, which they promply ran into the ground so Red Bull bought it for a pound. Ford has never really smacked Ferrari. Its either lost trying or paid someone else to do the job so they can use them to sell more shitboxes
I think this is strategic, not cheap. It is much more complete than the Alfa/Aston Martin deals. Also, I think the Andretti deal has a big risk of being poor performing. Also, why does anyone want a rebadged Renault engine to be called Cadillac? This Ford deal doesn't rebadge the engine a ford, it is a very specific scope. I like the ford deal, but not the caddy deal.
The only reason tô hold back Andretti I can think of is that he was a bit of a pouter in his 1 F1 year and didn't stick around to make a serious go of it.
Umm Hamilton has multiple F1 titles and is living a dream life with his hobby as his job, he good bro. How about you? Worry about your personal achievements not the ones of other. You BETA
Someone living rent free in your head if you have to put this totally out of context comment under this video...I guess you dream of Lewis and Toto every night...😂🤣🍼
Once they announce who will be team principle and lead designer / engineer I think we will see how serious they are. They lack experience and need people in key positions that have F1 success to make the project work at all.
I like F1, but as an American, and an absolute NASCAR fanatic, I won't even pretend to know how these types of issues are ironed out. I will say that there is a lingering, bitter aftertaste of resentment towards America. I think an American team could be successful, it just feels like a big boys club that wants to keep the "others" out. I think the more manufacturers involved, the better. I love when technology from the track makes it's way to cars for the general public. With the EV craze, I think it benefits manufacturers to maximize hybrid technology, as it will be a bit before the infrastructure is in place for all EV.
The main problem is, the new team will receive around 7% of payments from FOG, and to compensate that, Andtretti-Cadillac needs to make a growth of about 14% (because FOG take 50% of income to itself), and it's impossible to happen. New U.S. F1 fans are not autosport fans at all, they are drama fans, who engaged to the sport because of the "Drive to survive" Netflix series. So they don't care about Cadillac or cars in general, and Andretti-Cadilac will just make income losses for the other 10 chassis manufacturers in F1.
It's not only about the prize money but also about bringing down the value of an F1 team. In case one is being sold the buyer will have more options, more leverage in general.
I don't buy the argument that letting in a new team that might fail, will "dilute" F1. If anything, it would just help show how tough the series is. Which would seem like a good bit of advertising.
Bottom line, partner with an existing team as a manufacturer. The official announcement of seeking new teams to join Formula 1 is farcical because where does new teams come from? Spec based series is where you get interested parties to join the series. Keep this up and maybe uncle Ecclestone will sell the rights to GP1 to some party willing to allow teams like Andretti to play. Free market is going to find producers to provide entry into the market.
It does smack of a double standard with the way Andretti is being treated. The key difference could be F1 doesn't want an 11th team, although I would like to see grids go back to 26 cars. However, it does make me wonder if there is something about Andretti that no one likes or trusts.
I really don't understand. If there are rules to a team enter the F1 grid, and the team is following these rules, the team should be able to participate. It's like you want to participate of a marathon, but you can't because the other competitors don't want another one to chalenge them.
No matter what other excuse the media & the teams can come up with we all know the one and only reason they haven't accepted Andretti-Cadillac as an 11th team. Money, and the teams & F1 not wanting less of it. PERIOD END OF STORY
The Ford owned Jaguar team was a flop by the year 2004. Red Bull bought Jaguar for 2005. In 2010 they won the WDC for Sebastian Vettel. A team needs 4 -5 years from signing Adrian Newey to start winning. The 2007 Reb Bull car was Newey's first car for Red Bull.
if F1 figure heads really think Andretti wouldn't be able to do a better job than Williams or Haas, they don't have any knowledge about their own sport
If they are concerned with the last time andretti won in Indycar look at Ferrari. When did they last win the championship? If we are looking at it that way they haven't added much to the field.
RE. It's gonna be tough for Andretti because F1 is incredibly complicated.... That's true for every new entrant in f1, however I'd argue that Andretti are probably the most experienced people ever (to try) to start a new F1team. Mercedes were buying the Brawn Honda workforce, so not truly new, RB were previously Jaaag. IMHO Andretti would be the first truly new entrant in a long time, but possibly the best candidate. Yes F1 is vastly more technical than Indy, but If I know that, I'm sure the Americans do too.
There's a huge elephants in the room... Rodger Penske. If he so desired to re-enter F1 and sponsor a full works team with GM /Ford/or Dodge would be an offer either of the "Big Three" or F1 could refuse.
Pretty sure it’s still because the teams don’t want to split the money 11 ways
Yeah I mean, the whole problem is the existing teams do not want to dilute the pot. It's not more complicated then that
@@stephennorcross I would agree that the money aspect is easily the biggest issue here but I also think as the video stated that there is also hesitation to how competitive Andretti would be when they haven't done great in Indycar, a spec series in many respects, and now they will be tasked to creating many bespoke parts in F1 that they never had to worry about before. I am not saying it can't be done but if we only have their Indycar track record to go by then we see why the chips are stacked against them.
I would love a new entrant as much as the next guy but I can sort of see things from both sides, it's not just as clear cut as it being just the money pot.
Ah yes F1 would be sooooo much better if it was just a 2 car grid.
or they don't like competition
This.
The race: Andretti haven't won an Indycar championship in 10 years tho...
Ferrari: ...STOP LOOKING AT ME!!!
Ferrari, Williams, McClaren.
@@EchoMirage72 Which is why Andretti is still racing in indy car because of their rich history, same as Ferrari, Williams and Mclaren in F1. Understood?
🤣🤣🤣🎯
Exactly. "....they may struggle..." They can't do much worse than Haas or Williams, who have been around a very long time.
Indycar is also a vastly more competitive series
This was an impressive way to repeat the same 3 points dozens of times over 10 minutes good job guys!
Gotta pad out those videos to hit the minimum number of minutes.
"Andretti hasn't won the indycar championship in over a decade" ...I really hope that isn't an argument because (gestures wildly in Ferrari's general direction)
Williams and McLaren.
or Williams.... 25 years and counting
One of the worst takes by a reputable outfit I've seen. How they can spout that while ignoring the history of F1 is astounding. You know they're trying too hard when they had to pull that out of their asses.
Nine F1 teams don't win the championship each year, not much of an argument against the notion of one's ability to be competitive. And only two teams have won championships in the past 11 seasons (just off of memory). Those teams must be really scared that Andretti could dominate otherwise why not welcome one more team they can crush...come on guys if Andretti isn't let in to participate, don't come back to race in the US...just leave.
No kidding. It's a wild claim to make. You can apply the same criterion to Penske in NASCAR (2015), Ferrari (2008), Williams (1997), McLaren (1998), Aston Martin/Tracing Point/Force India/Spyker/Jordan (none), Haas (none), Renault(2005), Alpha Tauri/Toro Rosso (none), Alfa Romeo/Sauber (none).
Don't hear the race saying those teams should be sent away because of their championship futility..
"The teams are concerned about how good an Andretti run team could be" ... I'm guessing those teams haven't seen HAAS or Williams the past few years.
Specially Haas
Both teams are already here and are well established
Haas is not in the competitive league as Andretti is in racing. Williams has been in the decline and their faith downwards has kinda been sealed since the passing of the man who made that team what it was. Idk if Andretti would compete in the front but it can definitely be mid table and even compete for best of the rest if everything goes right for them.
Uh...it's EXACTLY because of how poorly the bottom teams perform that Andretti has a higher bar to pass. It only makes sense if Andretti can pull in more revenue than they take. That means a highly competitive team right off the bat and long-term. That's a huge risk for existing teams to make when they're already making money in giant piles.
@@pabloferrer5798 Disagree completely. The other teams and FIA are lazy. They are afraid of Andretti Autosports.
There isn’t a problem besides greedy team owners. If GM wanted to partner with one of the current 10 teams, similar to what Ford is doing, they’d have no issue with it.
The problem has always been with Andretti not being seen, rightly or wrongly, to have the commitment, knowledge, ressources to be a bona fide F1 team. Badging an engine with a name does nothing to belay these fears. The existing teams have already proved their capabilities, so noone cares if they badge an engine a certain way.
Big facts
Correct. If GM did the same as Ford they would be welcome. If the Andretti/GM bid was a proper major manufacturer team bid they'd be welcome. As it is it's Andretti with a GM badge on it. There is a huge difference, Red Bull have nothing to prove, they are proven winners and a Ford badge won't change that. Andretti have no F1 pedigree, and in all likelihood will be running around at the back of the field.
There isnt a problem besides greed
@@Mighty_Atheismo you think Andretti is less greedy?
The dilution is not just "one of the key issues", it is the primary, and I believe "only" issue that the other teams have. They just don't want to have their prize money reduced with another team. Of course, if the sport grows as a result of the new team, then the teams won't have dilution of their prize money in the long run. It seems to me that the existing teams that are against it, are being very short sighted.
You said it yourself:
'If the sport grows as a result of the new team'
A completely uncompetitive team running behind everyone else and folding after 2 seasons because sponsors leave does nothing to grow the sport. Which brings us right back to the worries about competitiveness being linked to the prize money.
The irony is that the teams, along with F1 and the FIA came up with the $200 million entrance fee to minimalize any prize money dilution that would occur. Andretti has the money, and has no problem with handing it over, and yet the teams are still using it as an excuse.
@@curnath This isn’t gonna be a manor or a caterham team, this is General Motors and Andretti joining, which is much more promising than most other teams in the past. Haas we’re fast out of the box, Andretti and General Motors can certainly replicate that, if not do better.
@@AustinG29152 Yeah, it's Andretti with a GM-sticker as it seems. Haas were immediatly competitive because they basically bought their car from Ferrari, hyperboly speaking, which is not the modus operandi Andretti seems to have in mind. I don't know if Andretti would be competitive, or at least have the commitment to stick it out for a while, but i can understand the Teams worrying about it.
@@AustinG29152 in the past even big manufacturers like Toyota and BMW folded after just a few seasons...
The lengths the Race goes to, to avoid saying the 10 teams are just being greedy regarding any new teams is actually impressive.
Call a spade a spade
It’s always more complex than that.
i agree ..the race are a brown nose mickey mouse media group
What is greedy about a company trying to make money? That is perfectly reasonable. I highly doubt that if you owned those teams you would decide not to make money just to help Andretti enter f1.
Yea they are greedy - and they are right to be for it. Andretti just wants to come in during the good times and leech of the sports when it is growing, not when it was in trouble just a few years ago. Hopefully they will keep the chancer out.
@@kicapanmanis1060 one of the worst takes I’ve ever read
Let me save you 9 minutes: It’s because Andretti wants to start a new team, while Ford bought into an existing one. You are welcome.
There needs to be two more teams added to the grid so four more driving seats can be added. There's so many talented drivers out there that need to get an opportunity and 21 and there's just not currently enough seats.
I agree there not enough seats but will four more available seats just bring four more pay to drive drivers?? That’s my concern.
In football the best rise to the top, in racing the money rises to the top.
Three extra teams and the maximum grid capacity of 26 cars even!
@@TassieLorenzo nope. 26 still too few. 68. I want 68. IMSA in the past ever done 60+ cars in 2014.
Yes, 12 teams are ideal and perfect! 🏆
Given that just a few years ago we had more teams on the grid. HRT, Marussia/Manor and Caterham. Shows how quickly we forget.
maybe the owners DO know and that's why they are that critical....
It is a money issue, the teams made it very clear on that, Andretti already attempted to buy an existing team they said no on every front, leaving him no choice but to join this way, Andretti or GM didn't do much wrong going this route because the teams themselves forced their hands.
The difference is pretty obvious though, one wants to make a team, the other chooses to make an engine not a team and the teams accepted because it doesn't harm their prizes pool unlike a new team entering, so at this point what the use of adding new teams, with these budget rules in place to entice them but then turn around and say "we don't want you here" sounds like a snake oil scam to me at this point.
I don't know why the commentators on this channel make it seem like a complicated issue when the answer is quite frankly right in front of you, at best the video would be less then 5 minutes at most to explain an obvious situation.
Way to show everyone that you understood basically nothing about the issue.
@@curnath I just gave the answer, unless you understand the issue yourself smart ass.
@@LimitPro1 True, sry, i wasn't exactly constructive.
Neither Ford nor GM are trying to build a team or an engine.
They want to lend their name to a team, without actually doing anything in terms of car-developement. They are indeed doing the exact same thing. The difference is the team they are doing it with.
Everyone knows Redbull can be competitive, lord knows they proved it. They will actually built their own engine, so noone cares if they call it a Ford.
Noone knows if Andretti can be competitive. Everyone is afraid they can't. They would buy their engines from Renault and put a Cadillac-sticker on it.
The teams are afraid that Andretti comes in, takes part of their price money, folds after two years because they are running nowhere near competitiveness and the sponsors jump ship, and will have done absolutely nothing to grow the sport as a whole.
It's because they understand nothing. Just like saying ferrari has a better engine then mercedes. 🤡
@@curnath Isn't Ford working on the revised electric system by 2026 so that they can advertise their road car? To me, that's a major difference between GM's approach and Ford's approach. ICE development is dead for road car. If GM is willing to take a similar approach like Ford, and said Andretti-Cadillac will only use the Renault engine as a bridge deal, then it's a completely different story. As it stands, I consider it more of a PR stunt than an actual effort from GM.
The FIA is open to welcome new teams to the sport but most of the existing ones dont want to lose prize money and the value of their exsiting team. Its about money at the end of the day.
Yeah, we know...
Heaven forbid teams have to actually be competitive to win enough prize money to stay on the grid. Williams, Haas, Alpha Tauri, looking at you.
Whilst Andretti is not helping itself with its approach, the usual F1 politics is the big one. What the Andretti situation comes down to is that the teams don’t want to loose money. Also, they don’t want anymore taking all their power from them.
The problem with Andretti is that the teams dont want more competition and have veto power on new teams. Everything else they say about it is just their way of justifying that.
Fords partnership came to a surprise to me but not really with Cadillac wanting into F1 so Ford thought they had to do it too.
But with Andretti and Cadillac partnership, I have high hopes they will be a middle grounds team for sure after 2 years in F1. Cadillac looked great in the LMP class at 24hr of Daytona and with that engineering behind them in F1, I think everyone will be surprised.
People also forget now with ford in also, there is natural competition between the two manufacturers. That plays really well in the US market.
So a team gets more money, F1 gets to grow it's fan base in the US by slapping the Ford logo anywhere.... But true fans get nothing. Still the same 10 teams and the same engine manufacturers.....
True hypocrisy
Andretti/GM would also only rebadge Renault PU since GM didn't even try to register as an engine manufacturer from 2026-2030...
It is a money issue but look at it this way and forget the amount involved....your boss says we are going to hire a new employee, but we don't have any more money to pay them so we are going to take money from everyones salary to cover their salary - how happy would you be? Everyone is saying the teams are being greedy but this is not about them wanting more money but to keep the money they have...if F1/Liberty/FIA want more teams then fine, increase the pot appropriately is all they have to do.
GM should just commit to making their own engine and electrical power system for Andretti to use, that way their combined bit is almost certain to be accepted since they would have real skin in the game rather than just a branding deal. If Cadillac can make a push as a engine manufacturer in Le Mans Hybrid cars then they have the technical capabilities to make an F1 engine too.
So then why allow HAAS, Williams, Redbull and Alpha Tauri, and McClaren, and right now Alfa Romeo, then onto the grid? Under the "no real skin in the game" argument all 9 of those teams don't manufacture their own engine.
@@EchoMirage72 Because none of those teams outside of maybe McLaren has the ability to make their own engine.
Right so then why the double standard for Andretti? At least they have a possibility of committing to the 2026 engine regulations unlike the other teams mentioned except Red Bull and Alpha Tauri.
@@456MrPeople Well, it's because GM cars don't use renault engine, or anything similar to that. Alfa Romeo used Ferrari engine in their road car, Aston Martin used Mercedes engine in their road car, Williams and Mclaren both have long history of using various engine suppliers. And GM? Do you seriously think it would be a good advertisement for GM when their branded car is not using a GM engine? Don't forget, F1 is the biggest ads billboard in the world, it would mean nothing if it doesn't advertise, and we all know how bad a GM badged reanult would look, not great if you ask me.
@@EchoMirage72 In some sense you are right, because obviously it holds weight too to be a customer to the big manufacturers that already exist. And in theory Andretti becoming a customer to Renault would be just as big for them as any other customer is to the other current manufacturers who benefit from selling their engines. On the other hand however, you can't look away from the fact that already being 1 out of the 10 team has its privileges that just don't apply to anyone trying to be the 11th or 12th team on the grid. Having your own in house engine program shows that you have enough skin in the game to stick around long enough to make all the other teams benefit financially even if it means they have to give up part of their current revenue share. Seeing ultimate commitment from any new entity is probably a must for the other teams and F1 as a whole to believe that you have what it takes to commit to being good in the sport long term, rather than just trying your hand at the shiny new thing for as long as you feel like it and having the relative ability to pull the parachute at any time and leave the sport in the dust if you aren't competitive enough.
So when Red Bull rebranded their engine has a TAG Heuer even though it was a Renault do people get mad and kick tag Heuer out of the sport (really should have done considering how much Rolex pays the formula 1)
Let Andretti in already, but I feel Haas would not last till 2026, so there's that.
I honestly cannot believe competitiveness is even at question when you look at the way Williams and H a a S have been the past eight years
Haas and Williams are A LOT closer to the leaders pace than Marussia, HRT, and Caterham were. Minardi used to be 5s a lap slower than the Ferraris in the early 00’s. It’s possible that Andretti comes in and is that much slower.
@@pitchforkmechanic7797 Andretti is a much bigger organization than both Williams and Haas combined. They're involved in various Motorsport series and it looks more like most F1 teams feel threatened that Andretti might become more competitive than they have been for the past decade...
@@deerlord2363 You do realize that you don't just show up in F1 and trade punches with the big boys right, even Audi the works team is going to struggle to keep up. And if Andretti is so good why haven't they had the results the last couple years ? if they where smashing IndyCar with multiple championships you would have a valid point but as it stands there "best driver" doesn't even qualify for a super license because of performance. Its not about being a big company its about having the right team.
@@deerlord2363 You clearly never watched Formula 1 in the past. Both Toyota and BMW gave it a try during the 2000s. Both bigger organizations than Andretti. What did they gain? Nothing but misery. Toyota never won a race, BMW won only a handful of them. Both never even came close to winning either championship. So, what makes you think Andretti will be any different? To begin with they’re not even a car manufacturer. They’re just a racing team with a last name. They have absolutely no backing at all. Even if Cadillac is willing to partner up with them. It’s already been stated that would most likely use a Renault engine. So, why even bother?
Remember when an energy drink company bought Jaguar? Good times!
Maybe we misunderstood FIA’s request for ‘new teams’ - they want major manufacturers to rebrand the currently-struggling privateers instead. More sponsorship money, better visibility, and nobody cries over splitting the prize money.
Honesty question. Why is F1 so scared of Andretti?
Pretty sure they don’t want to let anyone new in
It's all about money. Team owners don't want to dilute the cash flow.
@@ev06863 Yeah, They aren't scared, they just don't want to share the cash with another entity.
Not scared of andretti... They just don't want more teams. Andretti could have bought Williams, Haas or even Sauber but they didn't, they thought they could just waltz in because of their name
BEcause they cna acquire massive US sponsorships and can actually compete unlike a HAAS.
All your points are valid and make complete sense. I agree. From US race fan point of view it appears as both sides are playing their usual parts. Andretti is the brash, loud, forward American. Then F1 plays it’s European part. I think if and when all parties finally sit down and really talk it will get worked out. Both sides stand to make a lot of money from even more American exposure. Andretti is truly a house hold name n America even if you have never seen a race.
I see what the race did here. They know the reason like we all old f1 fans know. Just to spark up arguments and to bring in new American fans who are new. I can already see comments of new American fans getting misleaded.
All you need to know is antretti entered as the 11th team. Ford partnered with an existing team. More teams mean more splitting of prize money. Development of F1 car and maintaining a team is already very expensive and the introduction of budget cap. Teams have been struggling to not exceed the budget cap.
The entrance money for new teams, which Andretti has and will put up was created to offset the dilution of prize money so I'm not sure why this strange argument keeps getting made.
@@EchoMirage72 your argument brings a good point. If what we know is true then 200m for the entry fee. Setting up new pit garage should cost a bit not sure but let's say according to 2016(the only info I found as of for now) 1st get 148m and Ferrari cuz Ferrari gets 200m and last one gets 56m. Things are not looking good.
200m entry fee can balance out a season's cash problem. You have to remember f1 calender is much bigger than ever. Profits will vary too. There are more teams strugglely with money and big teams loves money.
As I understand it, the Renault engine deal is only to serve as a stop gap so Andretti can field a car in 2025. This gives the team and GM time to develop their own 2026 engine under the new concord agreement which is what has attracted other engine manufacturers like Audi. The current turbo hybrid is not useful for engine development for a manufacturer. But starting in 2026, with the loss of the MGU-H makes for a more practical use of development resources for engine manufacturers.
How tight is F1's profit margin that they are unable to increase the prize pool, if they were to add an eleventh team? I know the individual teams barely make any money - if any, but most of them are there for marketing anyways. A racing family name would be nice .
If Andretti pays 200M to enter, sucks terribly, and pulls out after a few short years... will F1's current teams actually lose any money? Will their decrease in revenue sharing end up greater than splitting 200M?
If the F1 teams think Andretti are not a serious race outfit, why would they fear the competition. What a bunch of liars.
They don't fear the competition, they fear Andretti leeching off the price money while not putting in much effort to compete.
They dont fear Andretti. They dont want to dilute the prize money pool. Andretti could finish 5 laps down on everyone else or retire every race and still reduce the Teams prize money
I see you might be new to the f1 world. Like the other people said.. It's about the prize pool. Let's say 30 billions is the total price pool. The prize pool is divided according to the constructor's position. Ignoring the fact, regarding extra bonuses to certain teams as legacy payments. The teams will now get less money. F1 is already very expensive.
Why would they fear the competition? Seriously,Andretti is racing in 100 different series without bringing in any real results... Why would it be any different with Andretti/GM joining the arguably most competitive and complicated race series there is? Imo many fanboys are just being delusional..
@@fienmen Say that again with a straight face. How in the world could you think they couldn't raise F! in the US?
Let's not pretend that Andretti is already contending for racing win and that it is a guarantee that they would be competitive. If Andretti fails, which can very well happen, American viewers probably think it's rigged, which they already think F1 is, and the market would shrink. Have any of those Andretti hailers in the comment section ever thought of this situation? Like at all?
Its hard to expect any good things from team who is only racing in series that has pre-built cars. Of course teams dont want to dilute money, but it can be also seen as non-serious project that might unbalance competetive state F1 are in right now. And we had quite a few new teams in 2010, which were mostly roadblocks for faster teams.
Andretti have galactic amounts of resources compared to even Haas, the most recent F1 new entry (which, may I remind you, had a pretty successful first three years before going down the shitter)
@ivodafone you can't be serious Andretti, literally has its hands in and on almost every other form of auto racing except F1 currently.
I swear to god if they don’t let Cadillac Addrettii in then they may as well let no one in.
That's exactly what the teams want. Which is why "democratic" racing series fail, the teams want what is best for them which is often not what is best for the sport.
Which makes them look like greedy people who would never honor the agreement they had in place with F1 when it comes to letting new teams in.
What's the point in even having provisions like having potential entrants pay the $200,000,000 anti-dilution fee when you're going to complain about money being diluted? I wish it would be as simple as F1 adding Andretti and telling the other teams to suck it up.
@@thechannelimashamedof2361 doesn't really look like f1 is failing...
This video does carefully present information that explains the situation well. I felt the same as you, until watching the video a second time.
One thing I don't get in this deal is what happens to any IP or commercial secrets Honda may have put into building the ICE. Surely Ford will be able to get some insights into Honda's engine design as part of this partnership and if so that must be a bitter pill to swallow for Honda.
I guess that's on Honda for pulling out of F1 for the umpteenth time. I don't get their game at all. What's next for Honda? A new works team that lasts a year?
I dont understand how these deals can even be compared. Ford will have little or no effect on F1 as a engine partner with RB.
The F1 teams dont think Andretti will bring anything to the table to make up for the revenue split with one more (below average) team.
I agree F1 needs to rethink its stance with them allowing Ford back but not GM.
I for one am glad that Andretti have gone public with their struggles to join the F1 grid. It further proves how shambolic the FIA are how much they have lost control of F1, the teams and Liberty Media.
You would think that if a major vehicle manufacturer was going to join F1 they would maybe develop their own engine. That would probably show their commitment to the sport and make it easier to get in.
The deal was the Renault would supply the engine for the first year and GM would develop there own afterwards. Not sure why this isn't mentioned in the video. It is against the rules to develop or work on an F1 engine before entering.
Looking at you Alfa, Aston, McLaren, Ford, GM...
@@KennethWrites yeah I agree, this should have been mentioned because it’s definitely a huge variable in how to look at things.
There's no reason to R&D an engine for one year before the engine rules change. It doesn't make financial sense for a team to do so, which is where the Renault engine would come in. Andretti will probably be midfield to back marker for 2025 as a result, but we'll see if it carries over into 2026.
@wearetherace IMO, if F1 can't accept Andretti and Cadillac, then go away. No Miami, No Vegas, No COTA, please leave.
If US venues are acceptable and you want to increase your market share in the US, fine, but it's now a package deal.
I've worked on legacy F1 cars, I've followed F1 for decades, but I'm willing to walk away.
The difference is that Ford have chosen an existing team and GM hasn't.
REd Bull ran a Renault engine with Astom Martin bagding? No one said a word. And Haas has a chassis built by Dallara and uses Ferrari parts for almost allof the rest of the car. So neither of these arguments hold water
1) Everyone knew exactly that Redbull had what it takes, lord knows they have proved it.
2) Haas was the last team that basically just slipped in before some pretty big changes in managment, and then was lucky to be able to prove its competitiveness. I doubt they would let them in today.
Both of those teams weren't new teams,red bull bought Jaguar and Haas bough marussia! Noone would have a problem if Andretti would buy Williams or alpha Tauri to join.they are just a little bit reserved on new teams joining...
@@supmikpaddleboarding5871 haas bought the marussia base, not stewart. RBR is Stewart's successor through Jaguar's acquisition.
@@snapcountersteer you're right!I've got confused there...
No media outlet seams to mention that the existing teams all signed a Concorde agreement in 2020 that allows for thirteen teams to take a place on the grid. An agreement is another word for a contract where I come from .
It does allow for it but you still have to be approved to get it. You can’t just show up.
The teams are so adamant an 11th team on the grid would result in a lower cut of the prize money that they fail to see how much bigger the prize pot would be. Andretti was already a highly marketable asset, then they hooked General Motors Cadillac (one of the worlds biggest and most technologically advanced car manufacturers ever) to sweeten the deal.
The question should be: why are the teams favouring the current cut of a sizeable revenue stream when they could be feasting on a monstrous revenue stream for less than a 1% cut reduction?
The only thing hypocritical about the big teams resistance to what is undoubtedly good for the sport is that their sponsorship figured alone cover not just the budget cap, but their drivers enormous salaries. The real winners by the additional revenue brought in by Andretti GM would be the small teams. So not only do the current top teams feel threatened by Andretti, they feel threatened by the potential growth of the current smaller teams.
Maximum exposure for minimum spend
The f1 teams are trying to eliminate the Andretti bid because they see that this "privateer" team have racing pedigree and are a potential threat to their prize pot. If it was a team like Manor, for example, trying to get in now they'd probably dismiss the bid without as much fanfare. That's how I see it anyway. If Andretti makes it to F1 I will be rooting for them because they've overcome every possible hurdle the other teams have thrown at them to do so.
Yeah a “privateer” like McLaren. I can see Andretti being a midfield powerhouse. But without their own engine I don’t see them fighting the top three
It's the prize money. It always comes down to money. 💰
Why don't they just increase the prize money? That's what literally every other sports series does during expansion.
The prize money dilution was literally the reason why there's an entrance fee.
Ford comes in as an 'engine suplier' to Red Bull. The amount of teams does not increase, the prise mooney does not dilute. Andretti-Cadillac is to become the 11th team and as such is diluting the prize money. Audi-Sauber is the same story as Red Bull-Ford. Is this so hard to understand?
I doubt it's Andretti, I think its more likely adding to the grid...
If they are going to let anyone join the Grid, it's going to be a 'Major' manufacturer and 'new' engine on the grid not an 'independant' who built their name in racing trying to find a 'loophole' in getting some 'manufacturer' branding to buy his way in to F1. They have to have a 'standard' they would have to meet to even 'entertain' the idea of expanding to even more chaos on the Circuits and less 'reward' at the end of it....
I say, just let Andretti race what’s the difference if it’s them or some other team or two teams ?
Money.
Other teams being greedy and not wanting to split the money with another team is the sole reason new teams don't get added. Andretti deserves to try out an F1 team.
Comparing success in IndyCar and F1 is very myopic. Vastly different circumstances. Indycar and NASCAR are closer than Indycar and F1. Indycar is a spec series meaning all the cars are essentially the same across the teams. And it is a stretch to say McLaren is ahead of Andretti in Indycar. McLaren finished 7 and 10 in standings, Andretti was 8, 9, 13
I propose a new adjective to describe decisions that are safe, stick to the status-quo but are invariably short sighted: Ecclestonian. A perfect way to describe the teams' in regards to the Andretti/Cadillac bid.
OK this will be controversial but.......I think that 10 teams and 20 drivers is already more than most people can maintain a genuine interest in. I don't really see how an 11th or 12th team will increase interest. We already have 3 out of 10 teams - Williams/Haas/Alpha Tauri - that have no real prospect of being competitive in the near future. If somebody wants to come into F1 let them buy one of those like Audi has with Sauber or invest in it like Stroll has with Aston Martin. If somebody wants to cash in on North American F1 interest there is already an American team that seems to be permanently short of money - Haas. The focus should be on reducing further the gap between the existing 10 teams not expanding. F1 is not a charity and the fewer uncompetitive teams that are on the grid the greater the interest will be.
You've got a fair point, but the same could be said about the number of races. I don't have time to watch every race weekend and I'm sure that I'm not alone. I mostly watch European, American and Middle East races, but sometines just the sunday race.
Amazing the level of resistance there is to the Andretti family. Without Mario I think it is safe to say no one in the US would give a s**t about F1. Without Mario there would be no Austin, Miami or Vegas. F1 needs to get it head out of its backside and come to grips with the fact that if you want success in the US then you need to let Andretti in. If you don’t we can get off this wagon just as fast as we got on!
Definitely.
I’m fully back on board with Indycar this year mostly because I’m frustrated with the greed and disinterest in Andretti in the F1 market.
The world would love it if Americans got out of f1, Austin is mediocre, miami is disgusting, Vegas will follow suit and haas suck so by all means bye bye
You guys will also be very efficient at getting off the bandwagon when Andretti fails to crack the top of the grid, which is why teams and the ownership are skeptical. Let's be honest, you guys would 100% think F1 is targeting at Andretti if they failed to be competitive by 2026, and lose all the interest, which is the same as the worst outcome if F1 doesn't let Andretti in, except now all the other 10 teams will also be unhappy. So essentially it's worse than not letting Andretti in.
Did you even get on? Not one US F1 driver in decades.
What keeps coming to my mind is why is the Andretti / Cadi combo using a Renault engine so bad? Aston Martin runs the Mercedes engine, Alfa Romeo runs the Ferrari engine. I just think that every hurdle that gets passed by Andrettii / Cadi, then the F1 teams come out and say "Well..uh...you can't run a branded engine." So if they fix that, next the teams will come out "Uhhhh...you can't use parts you buy from other teams (despite Haas using a ton of Ferrari parts)" if they fix that it'll be "For your first year you aren't allowed to run a front wing"
2 questions:
- why is Red Bull not continuing with Honda? Because have signed up to remain an engine supplier so why have they lost the Red Bull partnership
- How does the Aston Martin brand work?
They are just a title sponsor like Alfa right?
I think the biggest, not outspoken, point against andretti is the fear they will leave the minute popularity decreases.
I am of the believe that if a company like Porsche or BMW (well they wont, BMW is very clear about having 0 interest, but still) announce their plan to launch a new F1 team by 2026, and thus be the 11th team - there will be no opposition at all.
I dont believe the teams actually tell their actual critism through the media. yes, the dillution is a factor - but one could ague that Andretti could be a massive force in raising the popularity in the US - and with that media money and thus the pot to split between the teams. F1 tried to break through in the US for decades, needed a half ass documentary like Drive to Survive to manage that.. and with Andretti that could be made more easy.
So I dont think that the dillution of money split is the main critic. Just the main point being put through the media
It’s simple: Andretti die the wrong Thing by pressure the other Teams to sign This letter in Miami. And if you‘re anger the Teams in F1, you lose
This is not a real excuse just one of many excuses to keep them out.
What was the letter?
Dorilton - please sell Williams to Andretti!
If Andretti's results in indycar are one of the limiting factors in them not being allowed in then f1 really does have a problem with outsiders. If f1 allows gm to join an existing team like ford has done that proves it even more. It feels like a "you can only join the club if you're teamed up with one of us" situations and to me that's exactly what not allowing outsiders is. Andretti not being competitive as a reason to not let them join is also invalid to me with williams and haas toiling around the back of the grid. If the f1 teams didn't have a problem with outsiders they wouldn't use those arguments. F1 teams don't want more competition and they don't want their winnings being diminished in any way. That's the only real reason Andretti hasn't been given the go ahead and stating anything else is just beating around the bush. An American team with an American manufacture is the closest f1 is going to get to a perfect candidate for a new team and the f1 teams know that and are looking for every single reason to diminish it.
Do you understand that Ford is basically only a sponsorship for red bull?? They could've choosen Dacia if they wanted to...an existing team can run their own business as it will! A new team joining is something that would affect every other team...what makes you think Andretti would be competitive in f1 ? Looking at his 100 different outfits in all of this seasons it doesn't look like he's bringing in the results. Yet you are hyping them up as if they would be the next title contender...I hope they let them in so you realize how delusional you are...
@@supmikpaddleboarding5871 I'm looking at it from a point of if people want the sport to grow new teams will need to be brought in. Andretti fits the bill perfectly and nitpicking them feels like gatekeeping. They have jumped over every hurtle it feels like yet the only people who don't wont them there are other teams. They have managed to get the same type of manufacture sponsorship as redbull (though not making their own power units) and they are looked down on it while redbull is praised. Its gatekeeping plain and simple.
It's a good thing you mentioned Andretti's results in other categories. Obviously they're a well known racing family and they have the pedigree. But results are important and struggling in 100 different categories (all likely "easier" than F1), doesn't bode well for a potential F1 team.
and yet Williams can go without a championship for 25 years without any complaints... not a valid argument honestly. Ferrari, McLaren, Renault/Apline all have gone 15+ years too
@@JacobBanman That's a fair argument, but you can't realistically ban teams who haven't won a championship in a while. If you can prevent potentially mediocre teams to enter is another thing.
@Jay I what defines potentially mediocre, though? That's the problem...
Let's say Andretti comes in and is able to beat out Haas or Williams by seasons end, does that make them mediocre given it is their first season in the sport, or does that show just how mediocre Haas or Williams are?
You can't really guage mediocrity without letting them try.... Andretti has 17 collective championships, which is actually more than Ferrari has in its entire F1 history... seems only fair they get a shot one would think
@Jake Banman I see your point. But if they're mediocre on a ton of different categories, how likely is it that they'll be good in F1, which is arguably tougher than the rest? Don't get me wrong, I think they should be able to join, but I also understand the concern about how good they'll be and how long they'll stick to the sport. And yes, the ultimate answer is "let them try". But too many unsuccessful _let them tries_ will ultimately lower the category of the sport (even more than what the new rules and amount of races are)
@@JacobBanman That's a flawed argument. Imagine if Williams were a new team trying to join the sport now. They'd be laughed at. Same with Haas, despite the fact they did join only 6 years ago. Neither of these teams would be accepted into the sport today... they're already here is the problem
I’d rather see Andretti-GM entre F1 than another “Alfa Romeo” team.
That's the point. Andretti would be the new 'Alfa Romeo'-team in terms of competitiveness, or at least that's what everyone is afraid of. That in turn would do absolutely nothing to grow the sport, because the team would likely fold after 2 seasons for a lack of sponsors.
That would mean no HAAS, McClaren, Willians, Alpha Tauri, and Redbull.
@@curnath yeh true I get that point. But why not let them compete if they check all the boxes and then judge how competitive they are. I mean look at the great Ferrari, they had the biggest budget in F1 for a long time and still have nothing to show for since Kimi.
How is the producer incapable of comprehending the difference between Andretti adding a new team to the grid (which was the primary opposition due to financial logistics) and Ford being added on to an existing team which has been happening yearly. They are extremely different scenarios and calling Redbull Hypocritical is ridiculous because it’s not the same action and doesn’t have the same impact on the grid as the Andretti proposition. 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
seems like everyone forgets that cadillac produces GTP protoypes for imsa and wec. top of the line hybrid prototype race cars
Andretti could bring in revenue that would make Haas look like parasites. NO ONE in the US is tuning in to root on Haas as back markers. I'd rather see Andretti racing as mid field car than the joke that is Haas
And all the hype would be over as soon as you'd realize Andretti/GM is just the next Backmarker team... What makes you think they would be somewhat competitive? Just look at the poor results Andretti has in the various series he's racing in...
I think the real problem is Andretti himself.
One has to wonder why Andretti just hasn't made an offer to buy HASS?
Not to long ago Gene Hass had clearly lost interest in the sport that he thought he would be able to buy (albeit cheaply) his way to the front of the grid.
The budget cap and the redistribution of prize money has seen the 'value' of the teams skyrocket recently, and you'd have to think that Hass I just waiting for the right offer.
Maybe he DID get an offer, didn't like it, and so has garnered the support of other teams to hinder Andretti diluting the sport even further if they didn't want to buy an existing team.
Food for thought.
Perhaps if GM could provide a PU from the start then things may look different for Andretti Autosport.
Well Ford is gonna go smack Ferrari, just like the good ol’ days
not without vtec
The only thing Ford makes on that car is the decals for the LOGO. No different than the engines being badged Tag Heuer
@@tomstevens7452 they actually gonna develop the battery pack and electrical parts within the engine, not just here some money and put a sticker on it
The Gt-40 wasn't built by ford, and lost Le mans just as much as it won, and lost the overall championship to Ferrari.
The Cosworth Dfv was that, a Cosworth. The only thing ford about it was the money.
The only time ford entered F1 was with stewart/Jaguar, which they promply ran into the ground so Red Bull bought it for a pound.
Ford has never really smacked Ferrari. Its either lost trying or paid someone else to do the job so they can use them to sell more shitboxes
Ford will Smash Ferrari with those new white and blue stickers they will contribute to the car...😂🤣
Arrogant Europeans? No way!?!? I don't know why there is so much doubt about Ford and GM being able to hold their own or have a true impact
I think this is strategic, not cheap. It is much more complete than the Alfa/Aston Martin deals. Also, I think the Andretti deal has a big risk of being poor performing. Also, why does anyone want a rebadged Renault engine to be called Cadillac? This Ford deal doesn't rebadge the engine a ford, it is a very specific scope.
I like the ford deal, but not the caddy deal.
The only reason tô hold back Andretti I can think of is that he was a bit of a pouter in his 1 F1 year and didn't stick around to make a serious go of it.
Andretti needs to move on. If she's not excited about you wanting to take her out then she's probably not the one.
And I agree, but F1 giving them the cold shoulder just doesn't make sense.
Lol, good analogy my dude.
except you can find other women just as good or even better, but you can't find another F1. so not the best analogy
Imagine having this mindset as a FAN. Why does the money aspect concern you? Is it your money?
@@Omnis.satanica.potestas_omnis exactly what a silly analogy
I just can't wait to see MB and Hamilton lose again in 2023.
I can
Umm Hamilton has multiple F1 titles and is living a dream life with his hobby as his job, he good bro. How about you? Worry about your personal achievements not the ones of other. You BETA
Someone living rent free in your head if you have to put this totally out of context comment under this video...I guess you dream of Lewis and Toto every night...😂🤣🍼
Once they announce who will be team principle and lead designer / engineer I think we will see how serious they are. They lack experience and need people in key positions that have F1 success to make the project work at all.
I am super confused. We were expecting Rb to announce Porsche as a partner, however they came back with Honda while announced Ford. What a twist
Business first, racing second.
Why wouldn't the prize money for teams be increased if the number of teams increases
Shit I'd actually kill for a Honda powered Ford. The style and American design of Ford plus this power and reliability of Honda? Sign me up
I like F1, but as an American, and an absolute NASCAR fanatic, I won't even pretend to know how these types of issues are ironed out. I will say that there is a lingering, bitter aftertaste of resentment towards America. I think an American team could be successful, it just feels like a big boys club that wants to keep the "others" out. I think the more manufacturers involved, the better. I love when technology from the track makes it's way to cars for the general public. With the EV craze, I think it benefits manufacturers to maximize hybrid technology, as it will be a bit before the infrastructure is in place for all EV.
The main problem is, the new team will receive around 7% of payments from FOG, and to compensate that, Andtretti-Cadillac needs to make a growth of about 14% (because FOG take 50% of income to itself), and it's impossible to happen. New U.S. F1 fans are not autosport fans at all, they are drama fans, who engaged to the sport because of the "Drive to survive" Netflix series. So they don't care about Cadillac or cars in general, and Andretti-Cadilac will just make income losses for the other 10 chassis manufacturers in F1.
It's not only about the prize money but also about bringing down the value of an F1 team. In case one is being sold the buyer will have more options, more leverage in general.
I don't buy the argument that letting in a new team that might fail, will "dilute" F1. If anything, it would just help show how tough the series is. Which would seem like a good bit of advertising.
That last statement says it all. The established F1 teams don't like Andretti and don't want to share the pot. Its simple greed.
Did anyone else see The Race as the rear wing sponsor for the Andretti Cadillac car at @5:10?
Where are the captions?
Bottom line, partner with an existing team as a manufacturer. The official announcement of seeking new teams to join Formula 1 is farcical because where does new teams come from? Spec based series is where you get interested parties to join the series. Keep this up and maybe uncle Ecclestone will sell the rights to GP1 to some party willing to allow teams like Andretti to play. Free market is going to find producers to provide entry into the market.
This two cases are not comparable.
It does smack of a double standard with the way Andretti is being treated. The key difference could be F1 doesn't want an 11th team, although I would like to see grids go back to 26 cars. However, it does make me wonder if there is something about Andretti that no one likes or trusts.
If GM is in, they won't be less "in" than they are with endurance racing.
I really don't understand. If there are rules to a team enter the F1 grid, and the team is following these rules, the team should be able to participate. It's like you want to participate of a marathon, but you can't because the other competitors don't want another one to chalenge them.
Didn’t F1 just announce their are opening up two additional team spots for the 2025-2026 seasons?
The FIA did not f1
But they want a manufacturer who developed it's own engine!
@@supmikpaddleboarding5871 Audi / Porsche is one of them. I think Porsche actually might pull out of F1 bids and go full into WEC again.
No matter what other excuse the media & the teams can come up with we all know the one and only reason they haven't accepted Andretti-Cadillac as an 11th team.
Money, and the teams & F1 not wanting less of it. PERIOD END OF STORY
Remember when Red Bull ran Tag Heuer engines? Wait.. they were rebadged Renaults.. weird..
The Ford owned Jaguar team was a flop by the year 2004. Red Bull bought Jaguar for 2005. In 2010 they won the WDC for Sebastian Vettel.
A team needs 4 -5 years from signing Adrian Newey to start winning. The 2007 Reb Bull car was Newey's first car for Red Bull.
if F1 figure heads really think Andretti wouldn't be able to do a better job than Williams or Haas, they don't have any knowledge about their own sport
If Andretti and GM can't get in. Then no other team would be ever allowed in.
We want a Honda and a Porsche works team in...not Andretti/GM/Renault...
If they are concerned with the last time andretti won in Indycar look at Ferrari. When did they last win the championship? If we are looking at it that way they haven't added much to the field.
But at least they were a close 2nd or 3rd in most seasons...
RE. It's gonna be tough for Andretti because F1 is incredibly complicated....
That's true for every new entrant in f1, however I'd argue that Andretti are probably the most experienced people ever (to try) to start a new F1team. Mercedes were buying the Brawn Honda workforce, so not truly new, RB were previously Jaaag. IMHO Andretti would be the first truly new entrant in a long time, but possibly the best candidate. Yes F1 is vastly more technical than Indy, but If I know that, I'm sure the Americans do too.
There's a huge elephants in the room... Rodger Penske. If he so desired to re-enter F1 and sponsor a full works team with GM /Ford/or Dodge would be an offer either of the "Big Three" or F1 could refuse.