The Worst IFV In War Thunder
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- Decal link: tinyurl.com/42thwzv3
The Swedish CV90 Infantry Fighting Vehicle is one of the best IFVs in the world. However there is one variant in War Thunder that is abysmal. The CV9030FIN is borderline useless.
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Command and Conquer: Generals OST
Second channel: / @spookstoon
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#warthunder #tanks #warthundergameplay
The Worst IFV In War Thunder - Hry
Pain
I refuse!
Want more pain? Try the Yag-10
You know what's more pain, T-28 shrapnel shell only.
May I recommend the plz 83 130? Its 130 cannon ignores what armor value you go against. Unless it's a Tiger 2 or Maus or any of the IS variants, then you have to aim.
Edit: Forgot to mention that it's fun to use!
yes
You know the tank is bad when spooks puts a 6 for the kills in the thumbnail
That's literally the usual I get with the tanks I'm most skilled with...
That just speaks of his skill issue
@@struckbymusicಠ︵ಠ
Bro it took 116 days of asking just to get him to play it💀💀💀
@@dr_birbthis gremlin can get 9 to 11 kills in heavy tanks and even 15 in light vehicles, this is an IFV, a ‘light’ vehicle, and he got 6
2:03 If only they had it IRL, oh wait, they do, Gaijin just refuses to implement it.
But the T-72 TURMS gets a magic spall liner, they're not biased at all
I think IRL it's not a full auto tracker but a lead calculator, kind of like M1A1 Abrams
The Dutch 9035 has a different turret, Spikes and Iron Fist APS.
Pretty sure we'll see it in the French tree when they decide to add Benelux ground forces.
@@IvanBaturaChannel I mean yak 141, 2s38, f16aj
@@cheyannei5983fun fact: IRL every Soviet tank from cold war era has "spall liner" cause they were build with nuclear war in mind and tanks and BMPs I think too had insides covered in fabric meant to stop radiation effects, as it turned out later it actually worked as decent spall liner too
"Worst IFV"
Kills a 279, leaves, "worst IFV" he says.
and french stale few days old baguettes with around 300mm of penetration stragle to do anything to it.
Overexaggerated title for bait needs to stop. Like, seriously the Warrior is still a thing, does he know ?
fun fact. at least all 9040's (to my knowledge) that are in game have IRST IRL but gaijin decided to not give them that for some reason
They do not. They have optical tracking if air targets tho
@@Noone35791 ah ok. Well then i was partially right. Thanks for the info.
Yeah none of them do. IRST is again another term the community has adopted and twisted.
As said already it's not an irst system but Gaijin could implement it as one until they get it working as it is irl. The cv's shouldn't get nerfed by the snails unwillingness to program different targeting systems.
The module is called UTAAS if you want to read up on it.
@@MetalChef Seems pretty good to me.
30mm Bushmaster is so cucked damage wise. If it pens, it should shred. The BMP doesn’t suffer since it’s firerate is so high.
The VBCI honestly does pretty well for me but the Vilkas with the same gun I do so much worse.
Gaijin.exe
Same goes for the PUMA
Yeah auto cannons don’t really do too much, and the best ones are always saved by fire rate.
@@Nebby_Webby Literally grinded German tree for PUMA, and honestly it is beyond disappointing. Too slow to flank properly, too weak to engage frontally. The only thing it excels at is killing other IFVs and destroying cars and trees. It does tank but i have no idea how to use its toughness when ideally you should hit their flanks and not brawl.
Fairly certain that european IFV's don't carry as many missiles as the Bradley because the Bradley in WT is the M3, not the M2. Meaning it doesn't have to make space for a whole squad and can just load up on missiles
Yeah, the M2 variant carries 5 TOW's + 2 in the launcher. But it also carries 6 dismounts vs. 7-8 that is common in European IFV's.
Too logical for Spooky
The M2 BFV still carries seven TOWs.
@@Ak1M1223 M2 has space for 6-7 depending on variant and carries 7 TOW missiles, the M3 has the standard crew complement of 3 plus space for 2 scouts and 12 rounds of TOW
8 for the CV90+infantry soooo yeah
So the reason why the Bradley carries so many TOWs in game is because in War Thunder, it's the M3 variant that replaces most of the passenger seating with extra missiles. The M3 Bradley can only carry something like two passengers versus the six or seven of an M2 Bradley. The M2 Bradley still carries a decent number of TOWs if I recall correctly though, something like two in the launcher plus four missiles in the hull.
"Why european puts only 4 ATGMs in an IFV?" My brother in Christ its an Infantry Fighting Vehicle, it fights infantry.💀
Plus we’re American. We put any types of weapons on whatever we want.
Why do we have so many nukes?
"Just in case"
On the one hand I'd argue that a modern Ifv should actually be ready to fight more than just infantry, but if you're a single ifv and you gotta fight more than 4 fucking MBTs, something has gone seriously wrong.
@the_war_kid: ah yes, a true American, putting a non-american polandball character as his profpic
@@josephmurphy6127If you carry more missiles you lose infantry transport capacity. The Bradley he showed is the M3 which is a combat vehicle for space for 3 crew and 2 scouts (+12 missiles), the CV90 can carry 3 crew and 8 infantry men, + the 4 spikes
spookston: look at how bad the vehicle is!! *20 kill games, 13 nukes, 0 deaths*
spookston: my favorite tank, it's so good!!!! *2 kills, 0 nukes, 19, deaths, many many many cas deaths*
basically
brother, there were no nukes in this video, what????
Hey he can’t control when he does or doesn’t get bot lobbies
@@airyonaspraker1833 these are bots or just kids that repeat what the highest liked comments from other videos
@@Ahmedtheconqur1 Rip man.
One of the main reasons most* European IFVs carry so few missiles - or none at all - is because IRL these IFVs are always accompanied by infantry, who very often carry AT missiles with them anyway.
It effectively comes down to a doctrinal difference of having your missiles strapped to your IFV, pr having your infantry carry them, which has its perks since infantry generally have the better visibility compared to IFVs, and allows the IFVs to focus on the role of covering their infantry, while the infantry cover the IFVs by taking out enemy armour.
The Swedes did test out how viable it'd be with ATGMs on the CV90 in the form of the Strf9056 (Strf 9040 BILL in-game), but ultimately decided that the technological costs outweighed the benefits, and decided that the infantry should be the ones handling the BILL IIs instead.
*of course there are exceptions.
12:53 The wiggle made it look like he begged for his life
The 1 v 1 with the object 279 was pretty epic
Unironically a boss battle
@@crayondevourer2267 Fr. The music and the atmosphere also helped.
Seeing that object 279 beg for mercy and then gets killed anyway was brutal
@@nadavstein4471 no mercy for monsters like it
@@nadavstein4471 I saw it less as begging for mercy and more so a finger wag, like the T1000 in Terminator 2.
Giorno 202 of asking Spookston to play Semovente 75/46.
MORNING WILL COME, VICTORY IS CLOSE!
LA VITTORIA SARA' NOSTRA!
Affermativo! @@WinterTyrant
Dulce du leche!
A Morgna Wes Core
prima o poi lo fa
For the case of ATGMs carried at least for the British. Our warriors don't have the Milan ATGM in service anymore. Instead if it was to engage an armoured vehicle like an MBT, the infantry would dismount and engage it, as a British infantry section tyically carry Javelin and/or NLAW to deal with armour. The warrior is purely for transportation and infantry support. Also, the warriors are integrated with Challenger 2s for support. Therefore, it shouldn't technically have to deal with an MBT as the Challys would deal with it. British Doctrine, but that's in a perfect world.
I wish this doctrines worked in my SQUAD matches, because the tank usually f*cks around at the edge of the map
@@IonPerseus 🤣 yeah true
in case of war those british warriors would fight against mbts just like bradleys in ukraine.
@cortexoftheego4568 I'd throw that down more to the Ukrainians not properly employing combined arms as NATO practices.
My favorite thing about the TAM 2IP being busted is the fact that the applique armor it has on weighs literally nothing and therefore doesn't impede it's mobility like it should because the snail just lazily copypasted the normal TAM's weight onto it. Though can't say I'm surprised considering that the Panther 2 was missing like 4 tons of weight for like 6(?) years or something.
This was reported , the stat card is just wack and displays the wrong info, the tam IP is a tad slower than the tech tree one.
@@rocket_sensha4337 Can't say I've felt a massive difference but that's nice. Kinda wish the search function actually worked on the new bug report page rather than trying to feed me a bunch of unrelated stuff to whatever I'm searching for though.
Attempt number 45 at getting Spookston to play any tank with a dozer blade, the catch is, he has to dig in before engaging targets. Movement around the map is allowed, but he has to dig in again before reengaging
I don't think he will ever do this top tier moves way to fast
Keep going, failures stopped before they reached success
@@baseddlite7306AVRE?
@@baseddlite7306 dosent need to be top tier, the strv 103c is rank 5 and it has one. its also shaped like a doorstop which is double fun
@@baseddlite7306 "Any tank"
M728 CEV has a dozer blade, and is 7.0
'Lets go gambling!"
Later today not famous youtuber spookston was arrested for spreading the cause of gambling
Play war thunder is gambling with mental illness
2:46 He compared an IFV to Christ and was immediately punished lol
As for the number of missiles in European IFV's vs the Bradley, it's because the Bradley in War Thunder isn't the IFV version (The M2), it's the recon version (The M3). The M3 replaces 4 of the seats in the rear with storage for additional TOW missiles, so it can carry 5 extra when compared to the M2.
CV9030: "he does what i do!"
Strf 9040: "but better"
3:24 yes the TAM is really good: stablelized L7 firing DM23, has a laser rangefinder, amazing mobitlity, good gun handling and surprisingly good surviability all at BR 8.7. So i think it´s worth checking out
12:52 Object 279 begging for mercy with his barrel, a sight I would’ve never thought I’d see…
love how all of spookstons enemies are always light vehicles he can kill in 1 shot or if its a vehicle with actual armor they are either not paying attention or happily showing their sides to him
Euro IFV's are designed for European ground combat, they're very good at it. You're not going 100+ miles away from a supply train so 4 missiles isn't a tremendous problem.
Iirc the US has looked into adopting the CV90 and decided it doesn't fit our tactics and doctrine, but the 40mm is incredible... so we want a 40mm or larger on the Bradley replacement, the Mechanized Infantry Combat Vehicle. I think General Dynamics Land System's proposal has a 50mm.
I just read they rebulletined the XM30 program and BAE is back in the running for the program again
This vehicle was also built with Finnish geography in mind. ATGMs aren't all that useful in dense forrests.
The 50mm is just a re-chambered 35mm gun though, the cartridge is considerably shorter than 40mm L70.
@@forcea1454 It's not as cool as the Bofors that's for sure. I think the Army just wants a super MK19 rather than a bigger Bofors.
cv90 already has 50mm with the D-turret >_>
Also I just noticed it's turret is off centre, it's triggering me so hard, I can't unsee it now
A lot of things are off centre, like Bradley and Abram’s turret aren’t centre or symmetrical.
It's off center to make room for the engine driveshaft.
@@dannyzero692 ane the pz4. Moost tanks are.
Now take a look at the Panzer 4 and the top profile of the Abram's turret :>
Killing an Object 279 with that thing is the epitome of the Coughing Bomb vs Hydrogen baby matchup
The "It's broken" missile gag might be my favourite gag of yours. Never makes me not smile.
Breda 501 please day 97
Please I beg it’s very dumb
3:20 TAM's are unrealistically survivable in this game. Sabot do not spall and APHE does not fuze. The hull is so unbelievably thin that its just a vaccum.
I am not very survivable, I swear I died to a stray 7.62mm bullet the other day
@@little_lord_tam Sounds like a you problem. Most times I've shot a TAM, the rat survived and a lot of the times, they shot back at me.
@@vinisardagna Can confirm, I wont survive an atgm missile hit
@@vinisardagnai think you may be missing the joke
I've been getting one shot in them fairly often. Like it's not a bad tank I get good games in it since it's basically a lighter leopard but it ain't that survivable honestly, maybe the premium one is?
The CV9030 is so bad Spookston didn't needed to get CASed
that barrel thing is indeed, a barrel bore sight camera. placed under for the sensibility of "you see the target in camera you can shoot with gun"
Also if the driver is experienced, he has the barrel bore sight camera on his/her screen to judge when to let their foot off the throttle while assaulting to a firing position (esp. on a hill) to expose as little as possible to the enemy. The commander gives the order to get into firing position, the driver goes fullHD on the throttle to quickly get out of cover, the gunner has their sight higher than the barrel so he needs confirmation (usually non-verbal, just the tank doing the thing it is supposed to do) that the barrel has LOS to the target (if any). The gunner preferrably starts firing (and calls out to the radio) with fi-RE! so the driver doesn't suddenly brake. The tank has fired while moving, and it is now braking, immediately when it stops the driver engages the reverse (CV90 has two reverse gears) and the commander gives the order to get out of the firing position. The whole ordeal is called "the firing position rally".
@@eemilwallin3347 aye aye.
To answer the "why do European IFVs have less ammo", it's to do with logistics in an offensive vs defensive war. Basically having to stop and resupply after every engagement destroys an army's momentum. Not to mention how it's more difficult/dangerous to move logistics through a recently occupied area.
Meanwhile a defensive war has none of these issues. You are fighting from a dug in position, usually with stockpiles of their own. If those run out, logistics trucks can bring in more without fear of running into a mine or an ambush by trapped enemy pockets. If that also fails, you can simply retreat to the next line of defense. And honestly, if there are so many enemies coming at you that you ran out of stockpiled ammo AND the logistics can't keep up, you should be retreating even if you have ammo.
bigger gun=less ammo usually, the 25mm is dinky
The European IFVs don't carry less ammo though. The M3 Bradley isn't meant to be an IFV, its a scout vehicle. The M2 Bradley carries like 6 missiles compared to 4. Sure its still 2 more, but the spikes are also arguably more capable missiles in real life. The offensive war vs defensive war stuff is nonsense. European countries sell vehicles to all sorts of despotic and offensive governments including USA. Besides do you think that if an European country actually manages to defend itself they're going to just wave at the retreating enemies at the border and go back to normal the next day??!?! Like its just patently absurd to think that it has anything to do with that and not with it not being a scout vehicle.
Also here in finland most jägers will get bazookas so the tank doesnt really need missiles.
The fight with the Obj 279 felt like a Dark Souls boss fight. o7 for winning against the bias
that 279 fight is just the definition of cyber bullying
Generations after generations have passed, but there is still no sign of Spookston playing the Struter Emil
The users of them consider them the best IFV ever, but that's real life, surviving darts and fpv drones with the crew harmed in no way but slight shellshock, while also dealing immense damage as they excel at delivering infantry. In WT they are all far too high in BR and lacking features that other countries get, listening to crews of them speaking...
(Oh yeah if it delivers like on dev then my 9040 BILL talis will reward me majorly with improved damage, will roll HKP9A(FC) with it too)
Spottar faktan 👍
@@TheGrace020 Gud bevare konungen!
There’s nothing magic about the survivability. There’s one on display in Moscow that got a dead commander and jammed turret from an HE RPG-7…
🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
@@coolhandab5296How many tanks and IFVs do the Ukrainians need to blow up for you guys to get humbled? It's like a humiliation fetish at this point.
It's even funnier when you learn the CV90 is a possible replacement for the Bradley.
Attempt 38: requesting Spookston to play one of the "Alternate" Top Tier tanks:
M48 Super
AMX 40
Olifant Mk 2
Not this CV90 though, the one proposed is the CV90MkIV, which has ATGM's, active protection etc, and would also provide some equipment commonality with some NATO partners who have signed contracts for the same variant, plus its manufactured by the same company that currently does the Bradley.
fun fact: the cv90 has been exported more than the bradley
It's the latest version of the CV90 not the one Finland has, and the latest version is objectively better than the Bradley.
I thought BAE got ruled out of the NGCV?
Disregard- the XM30 was rebulletined and BAE is back in the running.
as it should be, the most modern cv90mkiv is better than the bradley in every single possible way. so no not funny but rather smart.
Regarding the ATGM capacity - the difference is that the CV90s are IFVs whereas the Bradleys in WT are the M3 Cavalry Fighting Vehicle versions, not M2 IFV. So they can carry more missiles but have only about 2 spots for dismounts.
Spookston is the only youtuber that makes me check youtube everyday to see if there is a new video, i just love the videos that much
When celere sahariano
Use Ratel 20 to see the Actual worst IFV in WT
Seconded, there are barely any gameplay vids on that
u get MILAN in 6.7 though. but i agree everything else about it is bad.
I came here to say this lmao been using it lately and fuck me it’s painful
Trick to make it op, if you bind your commander MG you can poke just the launcher and the MG over cover and guide it without exposing your vehicle.
@@alexmurphy6574 Would say that the MILAN missiles are the worst ATGM in the game but I remembered that the Type thing exists. Seriously though, I despise playing Marders simply because the missiles don't do a single bit of damage for some reason 80% of the time
12:54 that Object was just beging for his life
CV9030 aactually has a bit lower fire rate in the game than irl
M42 Contraero video soon?
he did that i think
@@somerando1067I don’t believe so. I’ve been watching for years and I’ve never seen it.
@@CT-ww7yi oh, no i was wrong, i was thinking of the spaa thing with the 75mm cannon, i got them mixed up
A Wirbelwind with a quarter of the ammo.
This is like the 5th italian vehicle recommended ive seen, WWII italy is very fun
Well european ifv usually carry little to none atgms Because most of those countries have at doctrine that stands on man portable agms helicopters and mbts while ifv are infantry support against other infantry and light vehicles of their own
Also irl 1 spike = 1 dead tank soo there's that
The Bradley's also usually don't carry that much ammo either as they need to carry people in the back too.
No such benefit was awarded to other ifvs because "balanz" including ones like the type 89 who verifiably could carry more but they choose to lower it to it's minimal load anyway.
@@rocket_sensha4337 The M2 still carries 6-7 TOWs.
Now play the PUMA at 10.0 which is just a more survivable version of this.
Looking forward to seeing you play the Danish CV-90
My stomach’s killing me but your video is keeping me together rn
Hope you feel better soon
Ibs king
A 9040BILL video would be cool, its getting shafted with the updated ATGM mechanics next update but its pretty good to play right now
8:59
UTAAS module, basically IRST without the IR. If implemented in game, it would function basically exactly the same as regular IRST; but Gaijin won’t add it bc they claim it can’t do the thing it was designed to do (track targets both on ground & in air), when in reality, they’re just too scared to give that function to vehicles that aren’t AA unless it’s the 2S38.
I love *love* my CV90s. Except for this thing. I had to do a challenge once (get kills with vehicles from the latest update maybe? Or three kills from each tier? something like that) where the CV9030 was the only one I could use, and it was stock, and my god, that challenge couldn't be over soon enough...
Hope youre having a great day mr. Spök
Could you do something with Phly and Odd in sim battles? You don't have to worry about cas and as a team you guys could practically control a map
11:54 the most accurate background sound when encountering a Obj 279 in 9.0+
Gaijin be like "Hmmm, CV 9030, well, it has 9 and 3 in the name, and we have a 9.3 BR in our game. So the tank shall be 9.3".
12:12 Spookston Started a boss battle
To be fair, most IFV IRL, even Bradley will not carry any extra ATGMs in the back, because its higher chance you will need to evac wounded or trasport infantry than meeting enemy tank.
I fully think, that UA uses their Bradleys to transport infantry and do medevac and carry only ATGMs in the launcher .
If UA is still doing Soviet tactics then they're probably keeping the extra ATGM's on the outside, strapped down as best they can. That's how the SU-152 crews dealt with the abysmal lack of ammo stowage.
i love the "its broken" atgm flyby
raxdflipnote showing up in a spookston vid is not what I expected on a Wednesday afternoon
spookston whenever you get bombed just remmember, "they are bombing me cause im to good for them"
My life is now completed, thanks Spooksten
Can't wait for a video on the churchill AVRE tbh
"Striker and a BMP, I think"
Wolfpack: EXCUSE ME?
you should play the 9.0 Type 87 RCV
yeah I also want to see him play that one!
Will you do the amr 35 zt3 in the future though?
the commander sight is awesome and i wish we had that same sight in cv9040's, i use that way more than gunner sight with 9030fin. so huge FOV and very good thermals. im here repeating ''use the commander fire control my man'' lol
the new 9035DK is just so much better than this thing tho, and its a shame they made it a premium...
ifv gameplay is nice, hope to see more in the future
The very very good thing about this CV90 though is the fact that it doesnt fucking blind you like the 40mm does when youre in gun sight. Also as a Swedish combat mechanic with a bit of experience with the CV90 the 40MM was directly tested on Russian vehicles with extremely good results. Good vehicle very very good mechanically.
i love the cv9030 idk why but i can reliably get atleast 8-9 kills per game with it depending on map
(sainai) also use the comander sight for a higer fov and less zoom
The CV9040C and 9040 Bill are amaziiiiiing IFVs
The TAM is one of my favourite vehicles. It lacks basically any armour, but it’s fast, stable, carries a powerful cannon, and gets a laser rangefinder. It’s surprisingly survivable as well, and its reload is very good. I highly recommend playing it, I actually don’t even use it at its regular BR, I uptier it to use in my 9.7 lineup, and it performs just fine.
Video 58 of asking Spookston to play the LAV-AD with HEAT
Aw, dangit.
Aw, dang it.
Spookton say : OH MY GOD Object 279 11:53
Spookston- I think this match is a lost cause
Me- 90% of my matches be a lost cause
Dang it man whens the QNA
4:07 Yo its the Norwegian Leopard that i requested like four times before stopping because i didnt want to request the same tank for a whole year!
You stopped too early and all u get is a mentioning of ur tank in one of his vids
TAM and JaPz K A2 are probably my favorite light tanks in the German Tech tree. Would love to see either of them in a future video.
you might not enjoy germany then cus those arent german vehicles xd
I played a lot of the vbc-i 30 while grinding france and it has the same problems as this. It seemed like every game was either you get on a flank and slaughter light vehicles, or you run into a single medium 10 seconds into the game and die because you cant do anything to them
Video 18 of asking Spookston to play The TO-55
Spooks if you did this yesterday and got bodied by 2S38 on Breslau, twice in a row, I'm sorry that may have been me. Funny enough I said to my buddy right after "That thing is painful to play at tier let alone an up tier".
This was recorded last month
@@SpookstonLet him dream, man. 😢
Pains to see this, I was a platoon leader with these. Always a joy to climb back in. To me the cv was much more modern than the Bradley and the bmp-2 was a nightmare to be in 💀. Especially in the winter when the heating didn’t work.
nitrome must die sound effects hit me with nostalgia every time
When are you going to make a video about the CV9030 Fin?
estenba
Day 19 of asking Spookston to play the t92
It's always weird watching spooks because he always does incredibly well in tanks that I really suck with. Now he makes a video about an IFV that I remember having a very good time with and he doesn't do as well as I do.
@9:52 I don't think I've ever seen a tank so whole-heartedly evaporate in war thunder before. RIP Spookston
Finnland to BAE systems: "Love it, but can you make the gun WORSE?"
*For the record, i know its not bad in real life, its a joke.
Not worse
Average player mindset: ALL IRL TANKS ARE MADE BAD PURPOSEFULLY FOR OUR GAME
@@MRtapio5 In war thunder it is, dont send Simo Häyha pls
hello AfD voter with an abomination of the german flag (your flag is a dishonor to the german flag) as profile picture, please follow your leader
In real life it ain't
Day 515 of asking Spookston to play the Nashorn.
On uptiers and downtiers I also find the in-betweens more enjoyable. A 0.7 uptier can be a test of your skill, but a 1.0 uptier is pain, and in a 1.0 downtier your team is usually really bad.
" This vehicle is useless " and all I can hear is " MAALI TUHOTTU "
ANY IFV with apfsds is god tier
You should Use the Soviet YaG 10 as SPAA. It has time fuse rounds at 3.3, so the CAS is stupid enough to fly in a straight line. Its hard, but getting an air kill with it is *extremely* satisfying. It is only bad at close ranges, but if you get the rangefinder, its actually useful as AA
That T-72 TURMS was like pulling UNO reverse card:
" No, you"
El gato alt here, play the fiat at 6.7 italy, very satisfying if you get a center shot, and watching a tiger 2 push confidently only to get ufp by the 300 pen 106mm recoiless rifle is very funny
1:26 UHH SPOOKSTON YOU MIGHT WANNA LOOK AT THE BACK OF YOUR TURRET
The fight with the object-279 was pretty epic ngl
7:08 reminds me of when I was playing the 9040, came across one of those chinese mbts while going like 40 km/h, he was angled only at like 20 degrees, and one of my rounds some how pens the side and hits the ammo, killing with the only shot that hit him.
It's crazy it's at it's BR. But I once got 8 kills in an uptier without dying in Maginot. Wild. Think it might've been my first nuke, but my heart was racing so I got no idea.