@@ArvelDreth Canonically no. She has two different epilogues and one of them doesn't have her dead, that still doesn't excuse Larian shoehorning a character with so much history into their own fan fic canon. For how short her appearance is they might just as well used someone else, I don't even understand the point of it.
@@pinnacleevolution1634 I'm talking about what was on the Forgotten Realms wiki before BG3 released. WotC wrote a canon death for her that was actually a pretty cool conclusion to her character arc.
"But I need you here in the party, even if we are not together... I cannot succeed without your strength." Well yeah, without her its just you and dead-man-walking Yoshimo.
i commend sarevok for his patience, i'd rather stab my eardrums and gouge my own eyes out than be the third wheel in a party with these two cheesy couple.
Vale Sauce if you want to date a normal girl go outside. RPG games are about escape, and bg2 is the only game where I can romance a dark elf hailing from a society built on lies and deceit with a tragic backstory. This trope is not tired at all IMO
Aerie's self pitying whining could as well have been half as short as it is and we wouldn't have lost much of the story. Heck, she could've summed it up in three words: wings gone, sad.
@@toprak3479 In the real world, I definitely recommend that you (specifically you) immediately call the relationship off if the person you're seeing mentions that they have any form of PTSD. You'd just make them feel worse than they already do.
it's even better when you are Polish and you are playing Polish version. the actress who played Viconia (who was also the voice actress for Fall-From-Grace in P:T) did a really stellar job. check it out here: czcams.com/video/s7b4WB6oHdI/video.html
As much as i love BG 3 its so sad that they killed her character like that. Even a viconia who stayed eveil after bg 2 probably wouldnt have done that crazy stuff to shadowheart. What pissed me off most was that dumb diary entry u can find in the temple of shar where shes genuinely suprised that shar asked her to kill the worshippers in waterdeep. Viconia is far too clever to not realize what following a goddess of loss means.
@@dov2mtI'm not sure what you mean (pop culture references, perhaps?), but even taking the odd spot here and there into account, the experience - as a whole - has held up beautifully.
Thanks for uploading. Brings back memories. Such deep and well written stories make me nostalgic, since even Witcher 3 doesn't come close to this epic.
I simply edited the game text files and write a better ending, where my char saved her and together with their child they departed to kick asses and chew bubblegum, until she was freed from the wrath of the Lolth. Goddamit, my char was ubermighty paladin who cured poisons and revived people just by snack of the fingers. The original epilogue didnt match the character powers at all
Speech +100 "If Gorion's Ward completed Viconia's Romance and chooses not to embrace godhood, the two lovers continue adventuring together until they deign to settle down, with Gorion's Ward becoming an important political figure. They marry and have a half-drow son together, but after several years, Viconia is assassinated by an agent of Lolth - *the Ascension mod contains an expanded version of this epilogue stating that this was achieved through the use of venom taken from Lolth's own fangs. Unable to resurrect his wife* Gorion's Ward sadly raises their son on his own, disappearing into the pages of myth - some say they go on to crusade against the drow, but none know the truth." source ~baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Viconia_DeVir#Relationships_3
@@itsyourgirlarmani6934 Venom from Lloths own fangs, ah, right, OK, that would explain why none of the cure poison potions I was always packing worked. Thanks for answering that and explaining how my version that the child AND wife were kept in secret doesn't work... And as long as Lloth believes that I've a happy family.
@@itsyourgirlarmani6934 Curiosly enough she does survive when you become a god, hadn't seen the connection before. Although she does say if we become a god she doesn't want us having to protect her, and we Always listened to what she said before...
"my char was ubermighty paladin who cured poisons and revived people just by snack of the fingers" Maybe he had forgotten to memorize his spells before resting?
This is the best romance by far. Her hidden mercy when she was a child, the guilt she feels about what happened to her brother, her experiences with peasants on the surface and her amazingly well-written arc of fear, insecurity, survival and tenderness... and her tragic epilogue. It's just perfect. I've always loved Viconia DeVir. The whole Bhaalspawn saga shoud be in HBO.
@@Ragitsu It's never gonna happen, but the wish is legit. We all know the terrible history of videogames adaptations, but the story is good enough to create a really powerful drama. A lot of screenwriters could do it superbly.
@@pablolabaig5200 If we lived in a world where art could be art, I wouldn't be so resistant; unfortunately, politics and corporate interests ruin artistic vision _long_ before quill is ever set to parchment.
only if they do it justice like last of us. if they game of thrones it i'd rather not. hell even larian fucked up on viconia. i'm mad as hell that they just reduced her to some religious nut. i wish she wasn't in the game at all, just leaves such a bad taste.
As good as BG3 is, none of the characters they brought back did justice to them. None, not even Jaheira, which was probably the most fleshed out one. Everybody else were either a sad depiction or completely missed the mark like Viconia here. I felt none of the shades of grey which made Viconia such alluring character here. Such a shame, such a shame.
It is a damn shame. Ultimately, we would have been better off if L "did their own thing" and created an entirely new adventure/tale set in _The Forgotten Realms_ instead of piggybacking their gaming MO onto a cherished intellectual property.
@@Ragitsu the weird thing is their NPCs kick ass actually. Origin characters, especially Shadowheart and Lae'zel are so well written, you can put them up with all time greatest NPCs of any game. But unfortunately, the worst NPCs in this game for some reason are all from BG2. I do not know why they dropped the ball that hard.
@Danaduchy. Thank you so much for doing this. At the time I got bogged down and never completed this game (stopped in the Drow city) but I always wanted to know what happened in the Viconia romance. Thank you so much for posting this, it feels good to have finally watched it through to the end.
@@gaffgarion7049 Even when evil aligned she showed compassion on numerous occasions. She also changed alignment in TOB. She's a Tsundere. Larian obviously never played the originals.
The best romance in the game, especially if you take pick non-evil, non-goody two shoes answers, probably because it's the only one where honesty actually works (assuming the PC is open-minded). All other romances end if you try to be honest (Anomen shuts up if you point out how he's a dick, Jaheira becomes psychotic if you point out how she just lost a husband, and Aerie's romance ends if you point out how whiny she is). Viconia gets angry, but as long as you don't go all out hateful she takes criticism very well. As for her romance ending, you have to understand that Viconia is a marked person. Drizzt, at least, was born unique (Drizzt's goodness was natural, Viconia's non-evilness was not), a male and a fighter (overall, low on the drow heirarchy) - the fact that Viconia is female and was once even a full cleric of Lolth would be at least ten times more insulting to the Drow (it also wouldn't be a stretch to think that Lolth, a greater deity, probably took Viconia's defection very personally). It was only a matter of time before one of the likely endless number of assassination attempts succeeded.
+whokilledmydoggie The fact that she is an epic-level cleric that can challenge the power of certain deities by the endgame and that she dies from a puny poison (which, if administered by Lolth, would be REALLY hard to do next to her) is a bit disappointing...
its not so much about Drizzt's ranking in Drow society.... its more about his family's name and who he killed and how he escaped and how he came back and destroyed a part of Menzoberranzan and the shitlist just goes on and on... With Viconia its mostly about her betrayal of Lolth..
+666666MetalHead That's why Edwin's ending pisses me off. Ok, I get it, Elminster is supremely powerful, but at the end of ToB Edwin is still an epic-level Conjuror and wizard of thay. The idea that Elminster instantly and easily neutralizes, changes him into a girl and makes him unable to cast even Magic Missile is laughable. By the end of ToB everyone is incredibly powerfull, even Mazzy is a force to be reckoned with. The idea of anyone short of a greater deity easily incapacitating an epic-level anything in AD&D2 is just ridiculous. We're talking about people that kill adult dragons when they sneeze. Edwin was probably strong enough to become one of the top wizards of Thay, possibly even the leader of the Conjuration school. Not even Elminster is strong enough to overcome that as easily as is said in his ending.
Also a bit strange that Shar would let another god just merc one of her clerics, gods USUALLY get pretty touchy about their clerics or domains getting fucked with.
Yea since they butchered the crap out of her character in bg3, my head cannon is that Shar, or someone powerful in her church, resurrected her body and brainwashed her to be completely loyal to Shar. Basically rewriting her personality
I won't forgive Larian for what they did to this character. She and Sarevok were redeemed and even changed alignments in my playthrough of BG2 as a kid, and most peoples I'd wager. Viconia even abandoned Shar, and does so if romanced or not. Larian just had to tear them down. It's like they needed to include them to create the illusion that this is a sequel, but really didn't want them there because they were others creations, not theirs. I'm getting very strong Star Wars and Disney vibes here. Edit: Before anybody starts bleating about Larian supposedly just following WOTC 'canon.' Jaheira dies in the TOB saga book canon, yet Larian not only brought her back without explanation, they treated her with respect, unlike Viconia and Sarevok.
"Originally Posted by Swen Vincke ... so, the chance to do that, and to bring what basically is our RPG identity to Baldur's Gate as a franchise was an opportunity too good to resist. And so, what it will do for us... uh, what we think it will do for us is it's going to show a larger segment of people, because I think Baldur's Gate 3 will reach more people than Divinity will have done... it will show a larger segment of the population what our RPGs feel like and hopefully bring them to play our other games also." I can provide a pertinent URL for that interview, if you desire. Swen basically admitted that he's using this attempt as a way to advertise his company. I've seen many folks admit that they don't _care_ about Larian's attempt not feeling anywhere close to the original _Baldur's Gate_ titles, because they love the company itself; good for them, but bad for us.
@@Ragitsu Thanks for the information. Yeah, unfortunately I'm not surprised. It's obvious Larian never played the originals. They latched onto a popular IP and basically just reskinned, and even extra woked DOS2. The mechanics are identical. It's also obvious they've no interest in making another supposed D&D game. Which is good for us, unfortunately they've destroyed BG as an IP so the damage is done there. However, my head canon is, just like with the terrible Bhallspawn saga books, that BG3 never happened. It's a 'sequel' in name only anyway, so it's not head canon, but fact that it never happened. If Larian had any integrity they would have released it as a standalone game rather than straight up lying about it being a sequel. Of course what can you expect from a company who continued to tell lies about the size and areas explorable with quests in the 'huge' city right up until just 2 weeks from the games release. 'Huge:' 🤣🤣The city in BG 1 was bigger, let alone Athkatla in BG2.... Well Swen, enjoy your 15 minutes, I for one won't be buying your next game. You're just a modern day Peter Molynuex.
@@Lonewanderer30I don't think Stage Magicians of the Shore gives a fig about setting details (i.e., the "little things" fans care about) as long as L continues pulling in those dead presidents (therefore ensuring greater exposure to their IP which, in turn, leads to larger profits); if they have to water down/warp the material in order to broaden market appeal...so be it.
@@miguelraza8948 After thinking more on why they did this, I've come to the conclusion that they had to shoehorn in a few references to try claim this was a 'sequel.' They then destroyed the characters as just being 'EVIL' so minimal development time had to be invested in them as they could be disposed of quickly.. BG3 was obviously a sequel in name only, they should have just left the old games and characters alone, but of course, money....
Upon hearing the complaints, I truly thought folks were blowing things out of proportion; after all, it would hardly be the first time people have overreacted. However, after actually _seeing_ and _hearing_ that gross caricature...yikes. What the hell was L thinking?
Yeah, couldn't even get her appearance remotely right, let alone her personality. She's about 210 in BG3's timeline, late 20's by Drow standards. Yet Larian made her look late 50's....🙄Thankfully despite the claims before release, BG3 obviously isn't canon.
@@Ragitsu Nah, she was 'only' about 100 in BG2. She was very young when her house fell, and she was about 70 years on the surface when the event's of BG2 took place. Even if she didn't leave the Underdark straight away, she'd be 150, max. So by BG3 265, at the very most. Still early thirties for a Drow. The fanboys will always defend Larian, somehow it's always WOTC's fault to them.
This is the first game romance I ever...believed? In hindsight, I can even see some of my own relationship struggles as a teen manifest from listening to it- not knowing how to take no for an answer when she wants to leave, putting up with hot/cold stuff, not understanding that verbal abuse is still abuse. It's kind of scary, yet this is also a profoundly interesting affair, though I do not think it's healthy at all now that I am older and wiser.
really interesting that forcing her to become someone she doesnt entirely want to be for her sake has serious consequences, really can see how this game made bioware
Damn, Viconia's story is really sad and depressing as hell. I've just finished Baldur's Gate 3 but I never played BG2, so deeds of other companions like Jaheira and Minsc were unknown to me. I never would have suspected that Viconia, one of the many bosses in BG3 is, in fact, companion from BG2 and potential romance. It is a big shame Larian made her a minor boss in Shadowheart's story. Although I somewhat understand their decision not to follow player's specific route I wonder If Jaheira and Minsc were given so much care then why not Viconia or Sarevok?
@@Ragitsu Don't get me wrong, both BG2 and BG3 are amazing games but I would gladly play BG2 remaster or on a new engine. I wonder if mod community would be able to do it like in Skyoblivion or Skywind case.
@@SithEmpiredidnothingwrong The Larian fanboys try to claim that they were supposedly just following WOTC 'canon.' Well Jaheira dies in the TOB Saga WOTC book canon, yet Larian not only brought her back without explanation, they treated her with respect, unlike Viconia and Sarevok. BTW, BG2 is far superior to BG3, but the so called enhanced edition is not the best version. A lot of woke BS was added needlessly in the EE.
@@Ragitsu What conveniences were those? I saw the woke BS and it was a hard skip. The original's with a few Bioware dev mod's and rule accurate mods are the best versions by far.
i maintain that no western rpg romance has ever been done better. in jrpgs i gotta say tales of arise mighta taken the crown for me recently. larian really did her dirty in bg3 though. didn't even get grey delisle to voice her, are you kidding me? the new voice is just grating and wrong.
The morons on larian also did Sarevok dirty. Lets not forget them bowing to cancel culture and replacing Minsc’s legendary voice actor with cringe dude that got popular thanks to Overwatch…
@@Ragitsu No , Jim Cummings was actually interested to return as Minsc but the company never contacted him ever. Matt Mercer did a poor job pretending to be minsc, it can never be as good as the original.
If this game were released now they would add dlc for each of these endings. I admit it would be fun to rage war on the drow as your character and your child
I have played Viconia romance couple of times in SoA, but never in Tob. I think romance of Viconia is pretty good in the end, even if she was such a bitch sometimes. Ending is pretty sad, only romance where loved one of protagonist is murdered afterwards.
Weird thing is it makes no sense, you're essentially fighting gods and have literal divine weaponry and items by the end of the game and then after that she gets poisoned and you're like "Whoops sure wish I could do somethin', oh well!"
@@JB-xl2jc i think ascension tried to justify it with "the poison was made with lolth's own fangs" or something like that, stilll feels a little bullshit but i guess thats better than the vanilla ending
@@JB-xl2jc I just assumed I slipped her another Cure Poison potion (in my games she was always getting poisoned) publicly be wailed her and then kept her secret with our son (everyone assumes I don't forget her because I'm not with anyone else). But that's me.
I despised the one who decided she has to die. That made me really sad when I was younger. She didn't deserve that and before anyone writes that she was the happiest she'd ever been at the end, that does not make it better in the slightest for me.
Cassidy West I get what you mean dude however it may have been done intentionally to symbolise how the son of bhaal will never escape death,especially the people around him
Viconia is the best girl that Bioware ever made. Morrigan is a cheap parody. She is just great. Evil(Helm of opposite alighnment and Vicky is soaking wet over your paladin), strong, beautiful, blackhumored, FUCKING IDEAL
There's nothing stereotypical about Viconia. Tali and Miranda are stereotypical. Viconia is strong willed and self assured. If you romance her and choose to become the new lord of murder, she doesn't forsake Shar. I mean, a weaker person would say "Well, it's been nice Shar, but that guy I was banging is now literally a god, so I'm gonna become his high priest." But not Viconia. She is who she is and fuck anyone that doesn't like it.
I just found out Viconia is voiced by the same actress who voiced Azula from Avatar the las Air Bender: Grey Delisle... I could listen to her talk all day
Redem10 Except for the whole "He respects her and her thoughts, he doesn't want her to to be submissive to him, and he would never reject her council" thing :P But, I get your point.
40:28 how do I trigger this? Do I have to wait an hour for it to trigger like the rest or is it triggered in a story point like with the “gorion” moment?
The whole bit about drow marriage...the numbers don't actually add up at all. If women routinely took husbands for a decade then killed them, there is no way there'd be enough men to last even a generation.
Perhaps so, but then again perhaps thats why their numbers where always so shallow. Then again they seem to pop kids out a lot, Viconia had something like 14-16 sisters alone and Males are not always killed but traded as slaves for other favors and so on. It would be interesting however to check their genetics, i wonder how many criss crosses it has.
Nivek Sirrah That doesn't work either because the more kids you pop out, the more girls you're going to have who are going to each be killing a fair number of boys through their lives. The only way it could work is if they have well over 10 times more male offspring than female but that would just beg the question of how they've lived without the men rebelling considering how badly they outnumber the women.
Average Bear Indeed, evil people don't want there to be other evil people because that's more competition for them. If you were the only thief in the entire world, you'd be in hog heaven. If everyone in the world was a thief, we'd all half starve.
Average Bear Yes you can if you a Drow... Those creatures can reach until 1000 years old, so if they kill each other, it doesn't really matter because they do reproduce a lot. Their nobles family are numerous.
Who Will Accept this end !? This is really not the end which I predicted. Viconia and Jaheira are the best romances ingame. great Video about the romance of Viconia Thank you.
@@irllcd13 I mean, if your soulmate and lover became a literal divine figure I think it'd be somewhat reasonable to not continue worshipping someone else. It's not like she hasn't changed in the past, she used to worship Lolth and never saw herself changing.
Checking back on this after playing Baldur's Gate 3, I am quite impressed by how complex Viconia is. I like Baldur's Gate 3 enough, but I don't think there is any character written to the same degree as her. A comparable character I think is Yennefer from the Witcher novels; she's also in the Witcher 3 video game, but the the game takes place after her toxicity has subsided somewhat and she's more mellow.
People are just walking by. "Are they still there?" "Yup. Seems very dramatic. Like one of those you know... plays or something." "Aw, to be young." "I think one of thems a drow." "Well that explains the drama."
Am I the only one that only hears licking sounds each time they click continue? I could never imagine playing this game with that sound repeated in my ears.
What a shit ending. "Congratulations, you beat the game! Too bad there's not a fucking thing you can do to save her!" Bitch, I'm a paladin, already killed several gods, whats stopping me from squishing some stupid ass spider? Oh that's right, the game ended and the writers couldn't write a happy ending because it wouldn't be edgy enough.
Akiraspin these games are pretty inconsistent on the notion of death. At certain narrative points, people "die" which doesn't make sense given that whenever one of you dies you can resurrect them for a handful of gold at the temple. I've always treated it as if resurrection's not a thing, except maybe something gods can do imperfectly.
***** Are the stories of Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate linked? I know they're in the same setting but I didn't think they were actually related. (also "D&D is a pretty malevolent place" umm lolwut?)
***** right ok so do character from the BG series actually reappear in Neverwinter Nights 2 to be resurrected? Or is it just an assumption that resurrecting the dead would be the same because they're both Forgotten Realms?
Akiraspin I think the whole point of the romance is even though it is impossible to have a happy ending with Viconia, that shouldn't stop you from having romancing her with what little time you'll have with her. It's sometimes difficult, or even impossible to save the people you care about from death, but what really matters is the time you spend with them, and relishing those memories like looking through pictures in a photo album when they are gone from your life.
I'd say Well yeah this is interesting to know. I won't lie and say it doesn't bother me. Though love is still a interesting thing cause it still will stand when things seem difficult and impossible.
@@user-ie2mr7gg5o what do you mean confirmed ? On Shadowheart’s personal quest you go straight to Shar’s headquarters in Act 3 and kill Viconia. We also kill Sarevok in Act 3 . You can bring Jaheria and Minsc to confront Sarevok and both parties taunt each other.
Her story was so good I remember it fondly from 20 years ago when last I played BG. Rewatching it before BG3 has reminded me just how fantastic the writing was in the original; I can only hope BG3 is half as good. Is that Viconia I saw in the launch day trailer??
She is mini-boss baddie with no depth there sadly. I'd prefer her any day as a follower over granny Jaheira and noname drow Minthara. Both in one package.
+Krzysztof Kauza i think you have to continue the relaiionship, if you start a new game like me so dont have the opition of relationship bacause not have time for conclue.
Out of the three - I always find myself going back to Viconia on most playthroughs. Jaheira's has the most content, but I simply find Viconia's more appealing - While Aerie just irritates the shit out of me. The like the SoA part if the romance better than ToB - feels like it was written with a 'Good' CHARNAME in mind, pretty blatantly so. And her epilogue just feels kind 'off' to me. Epic level Cleric dying to poison? Yeah right.
I'm pissed off because when I played through BG2 (once, and only once, and intentionally so, and a long time ago) I think my Jaheira relationship series/line somehow broke, and all conversation just abruptly stopped, despite not doing bad dialogue options as far a I recall. I can't remember, but possibly most NPC dialogue stopped, even.
MsHojat Jaheira's sub-plot was super riddled with bugs out-of-box. You really had to use the 'Baldurdash' bug-fix pack to have any solid hope of completing her full plot.
I must say she was always one of the most interesting characters in BG series. In fact IMO they made a mistake with her alignment, she always seemed to me more like True Neutral (there was in fact an order of Clerics of Shar called Darkcloaks who were neutral and even good rather than being of evil alignment) rather than being evil...just like Jaheira was always more of a Neutral Good rather than True Neutral due to ridiculous limitations of the 2ed D&D Druid rules. The only reason why they made her "evil" is because of the cheesy stereotype that all Drow must be evil and that anything but is just wrong and - cheesy. I mean she refused to sacrifice an infant and thus became an exile from Menzoberranzan and if that wasn't enough she was forced to hide and run like a rat from bigoted "surface-dwellers". Is that evil? Plus when you get to know her and get into the romance with her you just find out she is not really "evil", she is just confused and scared.
Viconia was never implied to be anything even remotely resembling a Darkcloak with her professed clerical dogma. Shar is a distinctly EVIL goddess, and among the themes of her dogma is the principle that sentiments of trust, love, and hope are straight-up blasphemous. Clerics of Shar that aren't evil or at best callously neutral are definitely the rare exception, not the rule. And all the more so for a *Drow* priestess of Shar, firmly indoctrinated in her youth by a culture that's fundamentally racist and murderous. Considering all that, it was always appropriate that Viconia start out as Neutral Evil. This is a character that begins her arc as being someone that's casual and unfeeling about murder, and had no particular appreciation for any sort of moral balance. She had a very deep-seated spark of decency in her, but realistically that's true for most villains (extremely few people are realistically 'pure evil'). Indeed, the writer for her romance sub-plot in BG2 actually dropped the ball on properly conveying the major, inherent conflict her service to Shar would have had with establishing a loving, trusting relationship with Gorion's Ward. Shar would have become very displeased with such behavior in one of her priestesses, logically resulting in the loss of Viconia's clerical abilities. By the end of her alignment-shifting arc in Throne of Bhaal, considering the fundamental personality and world-view alteration she demonstrates, there's just no way she could still function in faith as a cleric of Shar.
CognizantCheddar Well considering how her story develops I would slightly disagree with your opening statement. However I agree 100% with the last part, which as I said (perhaps I was a bit clumsy when I wrote my previous post) is what makes Viconia a deeply contradictory character. It seems to me like the devs/writers couldn't decide whether she was evil or not. This all results with a rather confusing character...I never noticed (or rather didn't really pay attention to it that much) that when I was playing the game in my younger day but nowadays I think it was just bad writing and bad story development. It's cheesy at best...
I understand your point but you misunderstood the meaning of Neutral Evil in BG. Neutral Evil does not imply that she is actually evil, but imply that her main focus is her. That means that she can be good as long as her goodness does not hindrance her goal. When she speak of the child sacrifice she is not implying that killing baby is wrong but she is implying that she does not understand how that action will make her goddess more powerful. If that action would make her goddess more powerful she would have done it.
+Joe Kerr You can change her alignment to true neutral through dialogue choices (like you can change Sarevok from Chaotic Evil to Chaotic Good). But ultimately D&D alignments are stupid and meaningless anyway.
Yes. They did her dirty or justice in that game? Haven't reached that part yet, still on Act 1 but somebody already told me that they did her dirty. Is that true? I don't mind spoilers so feel free to tell me
@@abitdodgy2844 They kinda did and did not in BG3. Larian Studios basically used her non-romance ending as the official continuation for the story. Which means her cruel and evil attitudes never change.
@@leoleo-tv2ju That's a shame. One of the few complaints I got with the game. Apparently, another returning evil-aligned character too got the same treatment (a certain Bhaalspawn, I wont spoil much). I don't know why they can't just make both Viconia and that character companions just like they did Minsc and Jaheira (good-aligned characters). 2 returning characters for good playthrough and 2 for evil playthrough. They should make it so it balances things out. Anyway, don't get me wrong. The game is great. GOTY contender for sure. Just a few things I want to complain sadly
I think the fact that these NPC interactions were random really added to the experience - you never knew when you were going to get them to pop up So you'd just play through the game, doing your thing, and then it would come up after resting or whatever. There is science to suggest that random and unexpected dopamine hits are enjoyed more than expected ones. Much better than the current system where it's like "oh let's go to camp and talk to the person with the exclamation mark"
It majorly annoyed me they put her in BG3, retconning the ending you could have with her in BG2. There was no need to bring back old characters, if would still have been a stellar game without undoing the story told 2 decades ago.
They had to shoehorn in a few references to try claim this was a 'sequel.' They then destroyed the characters as just being 'EVIL' so minimal development time had to be invested in them and they could be disposed of quickly.. BG3 was obviously a sequel in name only, they should have just left the old games and characters alone, but of course, money....
I never knew Viconia's romance could get that far. I remember always liking her best, but no matter how I tried I never managed to make it work, eventually assuming that it just DIDN'T work.
@@irllcd13 i almost always play pally with her (because carsomyr rocks , and the default user of carsomyr can't be in a party with her) , and her romance is aokya as long as u keep your rep in check
It's the bugged way to break the romance u will skipt LT 37 to 41 when VIconia its mad u didnt fuck her but u never get the 39 LT dialoge so u cant do this (Played on GOG version ) U must in one dialoge fuck with her feelings to get little lower score or u gonna get bug
@@user-bl2fp5gt3p u must make one small mistake in any dialoge just dont use only good answers but dialogów mistake cannot be critical one or romance will be over
i don't really get her ending. how was she poisoned and died as a result? she's a skilled cleric. she has plenty of divine spells and potions to deal with any nonsense like that.
According to semi-canon Ascension mod (it was made by David Gaider, Bioware's design director), it was venom from Lolth's fangs and her agent assassinated Viconia with it. No antidote or magic could heal that.
@@guardians-99 What you say is truth, what I said was just me trying to rationalize a way around the issue. Bottom line the Forgotten Realms is a dark place and another tragedy doesn't make much difference.
@@guardians-99 but if she died because of the venom from llolth's fangs, could not her dead body have been revived, either by a cleric spell or taking her to a temple? it's not like her body was chopped up into lots of pieces so there would be no possiblity of reviving.
How the hell did you get the romance to work? I get to the first time you sleep with her and choose the same dialogue choices and she never talks to me again.
Whaa Whaa daddy doesn't love me anymore. I guess you'll have to stick with ya Pillers of Eternity 1 and 2, Tides of Numinra, or Tyranny. Oh but maybe you like shitty turn based gameplay then in that case ya got Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2 or there's always Fallout "hey let's do Xcom's gameplay but rip the fun out of it" called Wasteland 2...oh wait that's right all these games got console ports so I guess they're ruined now right?
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Easiest romance in the game, also the only one i have never finished. These romances go on for ever, i am usually done with SoA before i finish the romance :( I generally don't play ToB, since it's easy and the story isn't really that great. But i have completed both the Aerie and Jaheira ToB and SoA romances. Aerie is the most annoying to romance, since she leaves even if you do what she tells you she wants?...almost too realistic. Jaheira's romance is incredibly bugged and weird (Because you have to be in specific places for certain parts to trigger, and if they trigger out of order, GG) Viconia...well, just don't tell her to get lost. Personally i find Jaheira to be the nicest of the bunch, with Vic as the worst.
+Zeus Blue yeah I find it funny how Viconia tries to be nice to you then is a sadistic bitch to all the other characters (particularly Aerie) P.S. if you have EE, Neera's is the easiest. One easy quest, no situational dialogue and no way to fail :)
@@glenbecksucksify1 I had mentioned that I didn't want the developers placing their disgusting hands on Aerie (the Avariel), because they will make her a female dog (it is the trendy thing to do nowadays...no straightforward/unambiguous heroes in this day and age) in addition to likely rendering her off-model (L screwed up big-time when it came to the Elven physiognomy). Of course, I was accused of being prejudiced against homosexuality.
@@purefoldnz3070 Maybe. Look, I personally have zero interest in Larian's attempt, but I also don't want people who have yet to _experience_ said attempt to be spoiled in advance.
@@Ragitsu well its the internet, things are going to be spoiled. The only way around it is not use the internet. lmao. Btw Larian did an amazing job just like the Bioware days of old.
@@purefoldnz3070 "well its the internet, things are going to be spoiled. The only way around it is not use the internet. lmao. " Yeah...I know that there is much inconsiderate behavior on the internet; I was hoping - in this instance - to counter that with a simple request. "Btw Larian did an amazing job just like the Bioware days of old." Nah. What Larian put out is derivative and trendy; Bioware crafted seminal works.
It's so sad that if the player chooses to romance her she just dies, the neutral ending is at least more ambiguous. I love BG3 but, for me at least, her ending there is not canon. Is it too hard for the tragic character to end their story alive and well??
Welcome to the club, they literally created a new ending that contradicts her characterization and destroys her entirely. Same treatment was reserved to Sarevok and most of the original lore... like for example, Jaheira having the nerve to say Gorion's Ward was subjected to a blood transfusion so Irenicus could steal his/her divine soul...
They did Viconia Dirty in BG3
It felt like legit character assassination. Canonically she's supposed to be dead anyway. I did not appreciate seeing her again.
Watching this in 2024, this is the first thing that came to mind.
@@ArvelDreth Canonically no. She has two different epilogues and one of them doesn't have her dead, that still doesn't excuse Larian shoehorning a character with so much history into their own fan fic canon. For how short her appearance is they might just as well used someone else, I don't even understand the point of it.
@@pinnacleevolution1634 I'm talking about what was on the Forgotten Realms wiki before BG3 released. WotC wrote a canon death for her that was actually a pretty cool conclusion to her character arc.
Poor Yoshimo, he just has to stand there for hours just listening to Viconia when she's not even talking to him.
he deserves it, and worse
…are you seriously pitying Yoshimo? I was so mad that I sunk time into leveling him just for him to betray me _and_ die!
@@AmaranthyneHe was a placeholder for Imoen. Sad destiny.
"But I need you here in the party, even if we are not together... I cannot succeed without your strength."
Well yeah, without her its just you and dead-man-walking Yoshimo.
+Desregaurd and he's a monk so he needs all the help he can get
Pay attention, you get no second chances.... - Yoshimo
i commend sarevok for his patience, i'd rather stab my eardrums and gouge my own eyes out than be the third wheel in a party with these two cheesy couple.
Look how Larian massacred my girl. At least they give you the option to spare her in BG3.
Crumbs from the table.
Definitely the most eventful interesting romance in the game. The fact it's twice as long as the clip about the Aerie romance is testament to that.
Vale Sauce if you want to date a normal girl go outside. RPG games are about escape, and bg2 is the only game where I can romance a dark elf hailing from a society built on lies and deceit with a tragic backstory. This trope is not tired at all IMO
well I never romanced aerie so idk but jaheira harper plot and her drow are both interesting but ye viconia is better
Aerie's self pitying whining could as well have been half as short as it is and we wouldn't have lost much of the story. Heck, she could've summed it up in three words: wings gone, sad.
Jaheira's has more events and dialogues.
@@toprak3479 In the real world, I definitely recommend that you (specifically you) immediately call the relationship off if the person you're seeing mentions that they have any form of PTSD. You'd just make them feel worse than they already do.
I always found her the most appealing; that voice makes a great deal of difference.
Brett Caton the voice actress who plays her is Grey Delisle. She has the best female villain voice in my opinion
It's weird going back and watching Avatar: The Last Airbender. Grey Delisle does the voice of Azula.
it's even better when you are Polish and you are playing Polish version. the actress who played Viconia (who was also the voice actress for Fall-From-Grace in P:T) did a really stellar job. check it out here: czcams.com/video/s7b4WB6oHdI/video.html
As much as i love BG 3 its so sad that they killed her character like that. Even a viconia who stayed eveil after bg 2 probably wouldnt have done that crazy stuff to shadowheart. What pissed me off most was that dumb diary entry u can find in the temple of shar where shes genuinely suprised that shar asked her to kill the worshippers in waterdeep. Viconia is far too clever to not realize what following a goddess of loss means.
The writers of the _Baldur's Gate_ saga were in a class all their own.
@@Ragitsu It shows its age lets be real lol
@@dov2mtI'm not sure what you mean (pop culture references, perhaps?), but even taking the odd spot here and there into account, the experience - as a whole - has held up beautifully.
@@dov2mt"shows its age"? BG3 is chock-full of painfully contemporary S--J--W nonsense. It will age like fish.
I think we should have gay sex edward@@edwardgreenwood4383
Thanks for uploading. Brings back memories. Such deep and well written stories make me nostalgic, since even Witcher 3 doesn't come close to this epic.
I simply edited the game text files and write a better ending, where my char saved her and together with their child they departed to kick asses and chew bubblegum, until she was freed from the wrath of the Lolth. Goddamit, my char was ubermighty paladin who cured poisons and revived people just by snack of the fingers. The original epilogue didnt match the character powers at all
Speech +100
"If Gorion's Ward completed Viconia's Romance and chooses not to embrace godhood, the two lovers continue adventuring together until they deign to settle down, with Gorion's Ward becoming an important political figure. They marry and have a half-drow son together, but after several years, Viconia is assassinated by an agent of Lolth - *the Ascension mod contains an expanded version of this epilogue stating that this was achieved through the use of venom taken from Lolth's own fangs. Unable to resurrect his wife* Gorion's Ward sadly raises their son on his own, disappearing into the pages of myth - some say they go on to crusade against the drow, but none know the truth."
source ~baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Viconia_DeVir#Relationships_3
@@itsyourgirlarmani6934 Venom from Lloths own fangs, ah, right, OK, that would explain why none of the cure poison potions I was always packing worked. Thanks for answering that and explaining how my version that the child AND wife were kept in secret doesn't work... And as long as Lloth believes that I've a happy family.
@@FenrirWolfganger no problem! although maybe becoming a god can save her🤔
@@itsyourgirlarmani6934 Curiosly enough she does survive when you become a god, hadn't seen the connection before. Although she does say if we become a god she doesn't want us having to protect her, and we Always listened to what she said before...
"my char was ubermighty paladin who cured poisons and revived people just by snack of the fingers"
Maybe he had forgotten to memorize his spells before resting?
This is the best romance by far. Her hidden mercy when she was a child, the guilt she feels about what happened to her brother, her experiences with peasants on the surface and her amazingly well-written arc of fear, insecurity, survival and tenderness... and her tragic epilogue. It's just perfect. I've always loved Viconia DeVir. The whole Bhaalspawn saga shoud be in HBO.
"The whole Bhaalspawn saga shoud be in HBO."
Please...no. The last thing we need is _Baldur's Gate_ screwed up by another company.
@@Ragitsu It's never gonna happen, but the wish is legit. We all know the terrible history of videogames adaptations, but the story is good enough to create a really powerful drama. A lot of screenwriters could do it superbly.
@@pablolabaig5200 If we lived in a world where art could be art, I wouldn't be so resistant; unfortunately, politics and corporate interests ruin artistic vision _long_ before quill is ever set to parchment.
only if they do it justice like last of us. if they game of thrones it i'd rather not. hell even larian fucked up on viconia. i'm mad as hell that they just reduced her to some religious nut. i wish she wasn't in the game at all, just leaves such a bad taste.
@@seraphik Eff Larian's attempt.
the amusing thing: yoshimo + sarevok just sits there for most of their conversations and does nothing
They are eating popcorn while watching the drama before them.
Viconia best girl
It is known.
As good as BG3 is, none of the characters they brought back did justice to them. None, not even Jaheira, which was probably the most fleshed out one. Everybody else were either a sad depiction or completely missed the mark like Viconia here. I felt none of the shades of grey which made Viconia such alluring character here. Such a shame, such a shame.
It is a damn shame. Ultimately, we would have been better off if L "did their own thing" and created an entirely new adventure/tale set in _The Forgotten Realms_ instead of piggybacking their gaming MO onto a cherished intellectual property.
@@Ragitsu the weird thing is their NPCs kick ass actually. Origin characters, especially Shadowheart and Lae'zel are so well written, you can put them up with all time greatest NPCs of any game. But unfortunately, the worst NPCs in this game for some reason are all from BG2. I do not know why they dropped the ball that hard.
Don't forget Jon Irenicus ... I miss old Bioware and Obsidian sooo much 😭
@Danaduchy. Thank you so much for doing this. At the time I got bogged down and never completed this game (stopped in the Drow city) but I always wanted to know what happened in the Viconia romance. Thank you so much for posting this, it feels good to have finally watched it through to the end.
Then larian butchered her by making her evil in BG3.
I hate them now so pissed how they made sarewok evil too
I mean, she is evil aligned in the older games too
@@gaffgarion7049 Even when evil aligned she showed compassion on numerous occasions. She also changed alignment in TOB. She's a Tsundere. Larian obviously never played the originals.
Embrace loss, simps.
@@foetusdeletus6313 You're 'smart.'
I've read here many comments about Viconia, and I'm fully agree with you. I won't forget Larian for this.
The best romance in the game, especially if you take pick non-evil, non-goody two shoes answers, probably because it's the only one where honesty actually works (assuming the PC is open-minded).
All other romances end if you try to be honest (Anomen shuts up if you point out how he's a dick, Jaheira becomes psychotic if you point out how she just lost a husband, and Aerie's romance ends if you point out how whiny she is).
Viconia gets angry, but as long as you don't go all out hateful she takes criticism very well.
As for her romance ending, you have to understand that Viconia is a marked person. Drizzt, at least, was born unique (Drizzt's goodness was natural, Viconia's non-evilness was not), a male and a fighter (overall, low on the drow heirarchy) - the fact that Viconia is female and was once even a full cleric of Lolth would be at least ten times more insulting to the Drow (it also wouldn't be a stretch to think that Lolth, a greater deity, probably took Viconia's defection very personally).
It was only a matter of time before one of the likely endless number of assassination attempts succeeded.
+whokilledmydoggie The fact that she is an epic-level cleric that can challenge the power of certain deities by the endgame and that she dies from a puny poison (which, if administered by Lolth, would be REALLY hard to do next to her) is a bit disappointing...
its not so much about Drizzt's ranking in Drow society.... its more about his family's name and who he killed and how he escaped and how he came back and destroyed a part of Menzoberranzan and the shitlist just goes on and on... With Viconia its mostly about her betrayal of Lolth..
+666666MetalHead That's why Edwin's ending pisses me off. Ok, I get it, Elminster is supremely powerful, but at the end of ToB Edwin is still an epic-level Conjuror and wizard of thay. The idea that Elminster instantly and easily neutralizes, changes him into a girl and makes him unable to cast even Magic Missile is laughable. By the end of ToB everyone is incredibly powerfull, even Mazzy is a force to be reckoned with. The idea of anyone short of a greater deity easily incapacitating an epic-level anything in AD&D2 is just ridiculous. We're talking about people that kill adult dragons when they sneeze. Edwin was probably strong enough to become one of the top wizards of Thay, possibly even the leader of the Conjuration school. Not even Elminster is strong enough to overcome that as easily as is said in his ending.
Also a bit strange that Shar would let another god just merc one of her clerics, gods USUALLY get pretty touchy about their clerics or domains getting fucked with.
Dont worry guys , Viconia is just a evil hobo in Baldurs Gate 3 and you kill her for good in Act 3. All this romance stuff became pointless…
Yea since they butchered the crap out of her character in bg3, my head cannon is that Shar, or someone powerful in her church, resurrected her body and brainwashed her to be completely loyal to Shar. Basically rewriting her personality
I dig your name.
Or Shar threatened her to give her location to Lloth assassins. So she had no choice but giving her memories.
@@ladyselin35Don't defend/justify crap writing.
They ruined Sarevok too. These two were done so dirty in that game. It was so uncalled for.
You can find a mirror in BG3 where Viconia's memories of her time with Gorion's Ward were erased.
There was a time when Bioware could write decent character.
Yeah, now look what they are now.
Irritated Statement: Edge masters over here.
@@bossshun9 Most of the talented writers left Bioware.
@@fyorbane well, hopefully next generation is gonna be as good.
Not decent, but great, I'd say
Aerie = Cute
Jaheira = Beautiful
Viconia = HAAAAAAAAWT!!!
I am really feeling this game. The romance of this character is not what I expect but I'll learn to love it too.
I won't forgive Larian for what they did to this character. She and Sarevok were redeemed and even changed alignments in my playthrough of BG2 as a kid, and most peoples I'd wager. Viconia even abandoned Shar, and does so if romanced or not. Larian just had to tear them down. It's like they needed to include them to create the illusion that this is a sequel, but really didn't want them there because they were others creations, not theirs. I'm getting very strong Star Wars and Disney vibes here.
Edit: Before anybody starts bleating about Larian supposedly just following WOTC 'canon.' Jaheira dies in the TOB saga book canon, yet Larian not only brought her back without explanation, they treated her with respect, unlike Viconia and Sarevok.
"Originally Posted by Swen Vincke
... so, the chance to do that, and to bring what basically is our RPG identity to Baldur's Gate as a franchise was an opportunity too good to resist. And so, what it will do for us... uh, what we think it will do for us is it's going to show a larger segment of people, because I think Baldur's Gate 3 will reach more people than Divinity will have done... it will show a larger segment of the population what our RPGs feel like and hopefully bring them to play our other games also."
I can provide a pertinent URL for that interview, if you desire. Swen basically admitted that he's using this attempt as a way to advertise his company. I've seen many folks admit that they don't _care_ about Larian's attempt not feeling anywhere close to the original _Baldur's Gate_ titles, because they love the company itself; good for them, but bad for us.
@@Ragitsu Thanks for the information. Yeah, unfortunately I'm not surprised. It's obvious Larian never played the originals. They latched onto a popular IP and basically just reskinned, and even extra woked DOS2. The mechanics are identical. It's also obvious they've no interest in making another supposed D&D game. Which is good for us, unfortunately they've destroyed BG as an IP so the damage is done there. However, my head canon is, just like with the terrible Bhallspawn saga books, that BG3 never happened. It's a 'sequel' in name only anyway, so it's not head canon, but fact that it never happened. If Larian had any integrity they would have released it as a standalone game rather than straight up lying about it being a sequel. Of course what can you expect from a company who continued to tell lies about the size and areas explorable with quests in the 'huge' city right up until just 2 weeks from the games release. 'Huge:' 🤣🤣The city in BG 1 was bigger, let alone Athkatla in BG2....
Well Swen, enjoy your 15 minutes, I for one won't be buying your next game. You're just a modern day Peter Molynuex.
@@Lonewanderer30I don't think Stage Magicians of the Shore gives a fig about setting details (i.e., the "little things" fans care about) as long as L continues pulling in those dead presidents (therefore ensuring greater exposure to their IP which, in turn, leads to larger profits); if they have to water down/warp the material in order to broaden market appeal...so be it.
ANOTHER VOICE OF SANITY!
@@miguelraza8948 After thinking more on why they did this, I've come to the conclusion that they had to shoehorn in a few references to try claim this was a 'sequel.' They then destroyed the characters as just being 'EVIL' so minimal development time had to be invested in them as they could be disposed of quickly.. BG3 was obviously a sequel in name only, they should have just left the old games and characters alone, but of course, money....
Wow, this was a long time coming
I think we can all agree this is the real Viconia. Not the old, manly faced one with zero personality that BG3 perverted her into.
Upon hearing the complaints, I truly thought folks were blowing things out of proportion; after all, it would hardly be the first time people have overreacted. However, after actually _seeing_ and _hearing_ that gross caricature...yikes. What the hell was L thinking?
Yeah, couldn't even get her appearance remotely right, let alone her personality. She's about 210 in BG3's timeline, late 20's by Drow standards. Yet Larian made her look late 50's....🙄Thankfully despite the claims before release, BG3 obviously isn't canon.
@@Lonewanderer30Someone tried to argue that she could be four to FIVE hundred years old.
@@Ragitsu Nah, she was 'only' about 100 in BG2. She was very young when her house fell, and she was about 70 years on the surface when the event's of BG2 took place. Even if she didn't leave the Underdark straight away, she'd be 150, max. So by BG3 265, at the very most. Still early thirties for a Drow. The fanboys will always defend Larian, somehow it's always WOTC's fault to them.
@@Lonewanderer30It's basically a cult of personality, by this point.
This is the first game romance I ever...believed? In hindsight, I can even see some of my own relationship struggles as a teen manifest from listening to it- not knowing how to take no for an answer when she wants to leave, putting up with hot/cold stuff, not understanding that verbal abuse is still abuse. It's kind of scary, yet this is also a profoundly interesting affair, though I do not think it's healthy at all now that I am older and wiser.
The reality is that the majority of modern women act like Viconia without the change of alignment at the end.
@@wan1234567890 feminism (at least the last wave or so) ruined women
really interesting that forcing her to become someone she doesnt entirely want to be for her sake has serious consequences, really can see how this game made bioware
verbal abuse?
bruh@@wan1234567890
Damn, Viconia's story is really sad and depressing as hell. I've just finished Baldur's Gate 3 but I never played BG2, so deeds of other companions like Jaheira and Minsc were unknown to me. I never would have suspected that Viconia, one of the many bosses in BG3 is, in fact, companion from BG2 and potential romance. It is a big shame Larian made her a minor boss in Shadowheart's story. Although I somewhat understand their decision not to follow player's specific route I wonder If Jaheira and Minsc were given so much care then why not Viconia or Sarevok?
Sorry to hear that.
@@Ragitsu Don't get me wrong, both BG2 and BG3 are amazing games but I would gladly play BG2 remaster or on a new engine. I wonder if mod community would be able to do it like in Skyoblivion or Skywind case.
@@SithEmpiredidnothingwrong The Larian fanboys try to claim that they were supposedly just following WOTC 'canon.' Well Jaheira dies in the TOB Saga WOTC book canon, yet Larian not only brought her back without explanation, they treated her with respect, unlike Viconia and Sarevok.
BTW, BG2 is far superior to BG3, but the so called enhanced edition is not the best version. A lot of woke BS was added needlessly in the EE.
@@Lonewanderer30Myself, I dislike the "conveniences" of the so-called "Enhanced" Edition.
@@Ragitsu What conveniences were those? I saw the woke BS and it was a hard skip. The original's with a few Bioware dev mod's and rule accurate mods are the best versions by far.
That ending what the hell?!
In the end the thing ahe feared the most actually happened.
i maintain that no western rpg romance has ever been done better. in jrpgs i gotta say tales of arise mighta taken the crown for me recently. larian really did her dirty in bg3 though. didn't even get grey delisle to voice her, are you kidding me? the new voice is just grating and wrong.
I called it nearly a year ago.
The morons on larian also did Sarevok dirty. Lets not forget them bowing to cancel culture and replacing Minsc’s legendary voice actor with cringe dude that got popular thanks to Overwatch…
@@Medivhmen Isn't it possible that Jim Cummings didn't want to reprise his role?
@@Ragitsu No , Jim Cummings was actually interested to return as Minsc but the company never contacted him ever. Matt Mercer did a poor job pretending to be minsc, it can never be as good as the original.
@@Medivhmen In any case, I'm glad Mr. Cummings wasn't a part of this parody.
Viconia deserved a better ending than this
If this game were released now they would add dlc for each of these endings. I admit it would be fun to rage war on the drow as your character and your child
I have played Viconia romance couple of times in SoA, but never in Tob. I think romance of Viconia is pretty good in the end, even if she was such a bitch sometimes. Ending is pretty sad, only romance where loved one of protagonist is murdered afterwards.
Yeah, she is a good romance but yessh. You said it best about her being a bitch.
Weird thing is it makes no sense, you're essentially fighting gods and have literal divine weaponry and items by the end of the game and then after that she gets poisoned and you're like "Whoops sure wish I could do somethin', oh well!"
@@JB-xl2jc i think ascension tried to justify it with "the poison was made with lolth's own fangs" or something like that, stilll feels a little bullshit but i guess thats better than the vanilla ending
@@JB-xl2jc I just assumed I slipped her another Cure Poison potion (in my games she was always getting poisoned) publicly be wailed her and then kept her secret with our son (everyone assumes I don't forget her because I'm not with anyone else). But that's me.
Aerie is best.
I despised the one who decided she has to die. That made me really sad when I was younger. She didn't deserve that and before anyone writes that she was the happiest she'd ever been at the end, that does not make it better in the slightest for me.
Cassidy West I get what you mean dude however it may have been done intentionally to symbolise how the son of bhaal will never escape death,especially the people around him
my first e love, best days of gaming.
You should become Bhaal and wage a crusade against Lolth and make Viconia the new drow god and retire to live out a life of splendor.
Rip in pieces, my waifu.
Viconia is the best girl that Bioware ever made. Morrigan is a cheap parody. She is just great. Evil(Helm of opposite alighnment and Vicky is soaking wet over your paladin), strong, beautiful, blackhumored, FUCKING IDEAL
She seems to stereotypical
+Alex Shestopalov (Nightwarden13) she's a classic tsundere.
*nostalgiagoggles*
viconia is awesome tho
There's nothing stereotypical about Viconia. Tali and Miranda are stereotypical.
Viconia is strong willed and self assured. If you romance her and choose to become the new lord of murder, she doesn't forsake Shar. I mean, a weaker person would say "Well, it's been nice Shar, but that guy I was banging is now literally a god, so I'm gonna become his high priest." But not Viconia. She is who she is and fuck anyone that doesn't like it.
I just found out Viconia is voiced by the same actress who voiced Azula from Avatar the las Air Bender: Grey Delisle... I could listen to her talk all day
Viconia romance AKA Taming of the shrew
Redem10 Except for the whole "He respects her and her thoughts, he doesn't want her to to be submissive to him, and he would never reject her council" thing :P But, I get your point.
Or "Defrosting The Ice Queen".
@@99thJediWarrior That's actually more accurate.
Damn.......... :'( That ending touched me,she was poisoned :'( Damn games :(
40:28 how do I trigger this? Do I have to wait an hour for it to trigger like the rest or is it triggered in a story point like with the “gorion” moment?
The whole bit about drow marriage...the numbers don't actually add up at all. If women routinely took husbands for a decade then killed them, there is no way there'd be enough men to last even a generation.
Perhaps so, but then again perhaps thats why their numbers where always so shallow. Then again they seem to pop kids out a lot, Viconia had something like 14-16 sisters alone and Males are not always killed but traded as slaves for other favors and so on.
It would be interesting however to check their genetics, i wonder how many criss crosses it has.
Nivek Sirrah That doesn't work either because the more kids you pop out, the more girls you're going to have who are going to each be killing a fair number of boys through their lives.
The only way it could work is if they have well over 10 times more male offspring than female but that would just beg the question of how they've lived without the men rebelling considering how badly they outnumber the women.
Nothing about Drow anything adds up. You can't build a society on pure backstabbing and deceit.
Average Bear
Indeed, evil people don't want there to be other evil people because that's more competition for them.
If you were the only thief in the entire world, you'd be in hog heaven.
If everyone in the world was a thief, we'd all half starve.
Average Bear Yes you can if you a Drow... Those creatures can reach until 1000 years old, so if they kill each other, it doesn't really matter because they do reproduce a lot. Their nobles family are numerous.
Who Will Accept this end !? This is really not the end which I predicted.
Viconia and Jaheira are the best romances ingame.
great Video about the romance of Viconia Thank you.
Can you do all the Romance from every sequel of this game please
21:17 LOL wow I doubt any man wants to hear those words.
2021, still best girl
In BG2 i call her Mommy
In BG3 i call her Mommy Superior
when your girl has extreme emotional ranges :)
Would've loved it if she became my first high priestess (a possibility she mentioned I think, but which did not occur in the epilogue)
That would go against her character. She's not going to forsake Shar just because the guy she was banging suddenly became a minor god.
@@irllcd13 I mean, if your soulmate and lover became a literal divine figure I think it'd be somewhat reasonable to not continue worshipping someone else. It's not like she hasn't changed in the past, she used to worship Lolth and never saw herself changing.
My first romance in video games....
Checking back on this after playing Baldur's Gate 3, I am quite impressed by how complex Viconia is. I like Baldur's Gate 3 enough, but I don't think there is any character written to the same degree as her. A comparable character I think is Yennefer from the Witcher novels; she's also in the Witcher 3 video game, but the the game takes place after her toxicity has subsided somewhat and she's more mellow.
Sorry to hear that.
His first time was with an evil dark elf witch who played bi polar with him for days in broad daylight on some stairs in some city
nice
People are just walking by.
"Are they still there?"
"Yup. Seems very dramatic. Like one of those you know... plays or something."
"Aw, to be young."
"I think one of thems a drow."
"Well that explains the drama."
@@doncoyote68 Drama? Preposterous, surely you meant to say "Drow-ma".
@@JB-xl2jc Bazinga.
sorry about my previous comment, when this scene 37:00?, before of after Yaga-Shura
Am I the only one that only hears licking sounds each time they click continue? I could never imagine playing this game with that sound repeated in my ears.
"licking" or "clicking"?
What a shit ending.
"Congratulations, you beat the game! Too bad there's not a fucking thing you can do to save her!"
Bitch, I'm a paladin, already killed several gods, whats stopping me from squishing some stupid ass spider? Oh that's right, the game ended and the writers couldn't write a happy ending because it wouldn't be edgy enough.
***** What in the holy mother of fuck is a waifufag?
Is this the part where you explain to me its some kind of cancerous ass meme from 4chan?
Akiraspin these games are pretty inconsistent on the notion of death. At certain narrative points, people "die" which doesn't make sense given that whenever one of you dies you can resurrect them for a handful of gold at the temple. I've always treated it as if resurrection's not a thing, except maybe something gods can do imperfectly.
***** Are the stories of Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate linked? I know they're in the same setting but I didn't think they were actually related. (also "D&D is a pretty malevolent place" umm lolwut?)
***** right ok so do character from the BG series actually reappear in Neverwinter Nights 2 to be resurrected? Or is it just an assumption that resurrecting the dead would be the same because they're both Forgotten Realms?
Akiraspin I think the whole point of the romance is even though it is impossible to have a happy ending with Viconia, that shouldn't stop you from having romancing her with what little time you'll have with her. It's sometimes difficult, or even impossible to save the people you care about from death, but what really matters is the time you spend with them, and relishing those memories like looking through pictures in a photo album when they are gone from your life.
If you want revenge: Neverwinter nights: Hordes of the Underdark - Remasted has it too ;)
Nathyra or whatever her name was doesnt even had a nice -tinder- character picture.
Why did you name your character Kivan???
That confused me too
I'd say Well yeah this is interesting to know. I won't lie and say it doesn't bother me. Though love is still a interesting thing cause it still will stand when things seem difficult and impossible.
Tsundere drow girls are the best.
And now she is dead in Baldurs Gate 3
@@MedivhmenHas it been confiremd?
@@user-ie2mr7gg5o what do you mean confirmed ? On Shadowheart’s personal quest you go straight to Shar’s headquarters in Act 3 and kill Viconia.
We also kill Sarevok in Act 3 . You can bring Jaheria and Minsc to confront Sarevok and both parties taunt each other.
Her story was so good I remember it fondly from 20 years ago when last I played BG. Rewatching it before BG3 has reminded me just how fantastic the writing was in the original; I can only hope BG3 is half as good.
Is that Viconia I saw in the launch day trailer??
She is mini-boss baddie with no depth there sadly. I'd prefer her any day as a follower over granny Jaheira and noname drow Minthara. Both in one package.
So does the ending change if your a Cleric, Druid, or Paladin?
Because you know.. cure poison? Resurrect? *shrugs*
Nope. She die either way. Why care she was strong cleric, with strong lover, some servant of Lolth jump up and yell "Bo ! You're dead, Vicky !"
Well BG3 came and Vicky is alive.@@Milwaga
Hey, people :3 I have a problem... Viconia doesn't want to talk to me in Throne of Bhaal. What should I do? Can anyone help me? :/
***** Vicky only goes for humans, half-orcs, and I think dwarves none else espeically not elves
+Krzysztof Kauza i think you have to continue the relaiionship, if you start a new game like me so dont have the opition of relationship bacause not have time for conclue.
im guessing its a reputation issue
Out of the three - I always find myself going back to Viconia on most playthroughs. Jaheira's has the most content, but I simply find Viconia's more appealing - While Aerie just irritates the shit out of me.
The like the SoA part if the romance better than ToB - feels like it was written with a 'Good' CHARNAME in mind, pretty blatantly so. And her epilogue just feels kind 'off' to me. Epic level Cleric dying to poison? Yeah right.
I'm pissed off because when I played through BG2 (once, and only once, and intentionally so, and a long time ago) I think my Jaheira relationship series/line somehow broke, and all conversation just abruptly stopped, despite not doing bad dialogue options as far a I recall.
I can't remember, but possibly most NPC dialogue stopped, even.
MsHojat
Jaheira's sub-plot was super riddled with bugs out-of-box. You really had to use the 'Baldurdash' bug-fix pack to have any solid hope of completing her full plot.
It's possible to achive all of the romances in one play?
So, people, what do you think of Baldur's Gate 3?
Jon Irenicus didn't get the justice by Larian ... I miss good old Bioware and Obsidian 😭
Black Isle, Troika......Chris Avellone writing.....miss
I am grateful they didnt bring him back they would have butchered him too like Viconia and Sarevok and Minsc with 15 wisdom.
I guess that Lord Ao was so upset with this ending that he decided to use the "reset button".
i brought her back in BG throne of bhaal :)
3:37 necessry?
Do you really have to choose this option??
what do i have to do in BG1 if i want her in BG2?
thx alot
@@oddicocidic ur welcome. ah yeah, learn to google.
I must say she was always one of the most interesting characters in BG series. In fact IMO they made a mistake with her alignment, she always seemed to me more like True Neutral (there was in fact an order of Clerics of Shar called Darkcloaks who were neutral and even good rather than being of evil alignment) rather than being evil...just like Jaheira was always more of a Neutral Good rather than True Neutral due to ridiculous limitations of the 2ed D&D Druid rules. The only reason why they made her "evil" is because of the cheesy stereotype that all Drow must be evil and that anything but is just wrong and - cheesy.
I mean she refused to sacrifice an infant and thus became an exile from Menzoberranzan and if that wasn't enough she was forced to hide and run like a rat from bigoted "surface-dwellers". Is that evil? Plus when you get to know her and get into the romance with her you just find out she is not really "evil", she is just confused and scared.
Viconia was never implied to be anything even remotely resembling a Darkcloak with her professed clerical dogma. Shar is a distinctly EVIL goddess, and among the themes of her dogma is the principle that sentiments of trust, love, and hope are straight-up blasphemous. Clerics of Shar that aren't evil or at best callously neutral are definitely the rare exception, not the rule. And all the more so for a *Drow* priestess of Shar, firmly indoctrinated in her youth by a culture that's fundamentally racist and murderous.
Considering all that, it was always appropriate that Viconia start out as Neutral Evil. This is a character that begins her arc as being someone that's casual and unfeeling about murder, and had no particular appreciation for any sort of moral balance. She had a very deep-seated spark of decency in her, but realistically that's true for most villains (extremely few people are realistically 'pure evil').
Indeed, the writer for her romance sub-plot in BG2 actually dropped the ball on properly conveying the major, inherent conflict her service to Shar would have had with establishing a loving, trusting relationship with Gorion's Ward. Shar would have become very displeased with such behavior in one of her priestesses, logically resulting in the loss of Viconia's clerical abilities. By the end of her alignment-shifting arc in Throne of Bhaal, considering the fundamental personality and world-view alteration she demonstrates, there's just no way she could still function in faith as a cleric of Shar.
CognizantCheddar Well considering how her story develops I would slightly disagree with your opening statement.
However I agree 100% with the last part, which as I said (perhaps I was a bit clumsy when I wrote my previous post) is what makes Viconia a deeply contradictory character. It seems to me like the devs/writers couldn't decide whether she was evil or not. This all results with a rather confusing character...I never noticed (or rather didn't really pay attention to it that much) that when I was playing the game in my younger day but nowadays I think it was just bad writing and bad story development. It's cheesy at best...
I understand your point but you misunderstood the meaning of Neutral Evil in BG.
Neutral Evil does not imply that she is actually evil, but imply that her main focus is her. That means that she can be good as long as her goodness does not hindrance her goal. When she speak of the child sacrifice she is not implying that killing baby is wrong but she is implying that she does not understand how that action will make her goddess more powerful.
If that action would make her goddess more powerful she would have done it.
+Joe Kerr You can change her alignment to true neutral through dialogue choices (like you can change Sarevok from Chaotic Evil to Chaotic Good). But ultimately D&D alignments are stupid and meaningless anyway.
Robert R
Only if you romance her, unfortunately.
Is this the same viconia from the 3rd game?
Yes. They did her dirty or justice in that game? Haven't reached that part yet, still on Act 1 but somebody already told me that they did her dirty. Is that true? I don't mind spoilers so feel free to tell me
@@abitdodgy2844 They kinda did and did not in BG3. Larian Studios basically used her non-romance ending as the official continuation for the story. Which means her cruel and evil attitudes never change.
@@ipecat6992 Is it possible to recruit her as a companion just like Minsc and Jaheira in BG3. Let just say if we're doing an evil playthrough
@@abitdodgy2844 no, she's pretty much useless and serves only as a boss fight.
@@leoleo-tv2ju That's a shame. One of the few complaints I got with the game. Apparently, another returning evil-aligned character too got the same treatment (a certain Bhaalspawn, I wont spoil much). I don't know why they can't just make both Viconia and that character companions just like they did Minsc and Jaheira (good-aligned characters). 2 returning characters for good playthrough and 2 for evil playthrough. They should make it so it balances things out. Anyway, don't get me wrong. The game is great. GOTY contender for sure. Just a few things I want to complain sadly
I think the fact that these NPC interactions were random really added to the experience - you never knew when you were going to get them to pop up
So you'd just play through the game, doing your thing, and then it would come up after resting or whatever.
There is science to suggest that random and unexpected dopamine hits are enjoyed more than expected ones.
Much better than the current system where it's like "oh let's go to camp and talk to the person with the exclamation mark"
The romancing in _that_ game feels amateurish and immature by comparison.
It majorly annoyed me they put her in BG3, retconning the ending you could have with her in BG2. There was no need to bring back old characters, if would still have been a stellar game without undoing the story told 2 decades ago.
They had to shoehorn in a few references to try claim this was a 'sequel.' They then destroyed the characters as just being 'EVIL' so minimal development time had to be invested in them and they could be disposed of quickly.. BG3 was obviously a sequel in name only, they should have just left the old games and characters alone, but of course, money....
L and WOTC only abide by canon whenever it *A)* brings them profit and/or *B)* will _not_ bring the wrath of "the community" down on their heads.
@@Ragitsu Except for anybody around gaming for longer than 8 years, this has brought their wrath.
Pfft, hardly@@Lonewanderer30
@@Fang.1 Pfft, yeah, Emo.
I never knew Viconia's romance could get that far. I remember always liking her best, but no matter how I tried I never managed to make it work, eventually assuming that it just DIDN'T work.
TomMalufe she probably broke it off because your reputation was too high
She also doesn't mess around with just any race, especially full elves
@@irllcd13 i almost always play pally with her (because carsomyr rocks , and the default user of carsomyr can't be in a party with her) , and her romance is aokya as long as u keep your rep in check
Spicy drow chick ;)
It's the bugged way to break the romance u will skipt LT 37 to 41 when VIconia its mad u didnt fuck her but u never get the 39 LT dialoge so u cant do this
(Played on GOG version )
U must in one dialoge fuck with her feelings to get little lower score or u gonna get bug
can be more detailed? How to avoid it! Thx!
@@user-bl2fp5gt3p u must make one small mistake in any dialoge just dont use only good answers but dialogów mistake cannot be critical one or romance will be over
Viconia hot and cold like a typical woman. But she is the best.
i don't really get her ending. how was she poisoned and died as a result? she's a skilled cleric. she has plenty of divine spells and potions to deal with any nonsense like that.
Public "death" followed by a (very) private life.
According to semi-canon Ascension mod (it was made by David Gaider, Bioware's design director), it was venom from Lolth's fangs and her agent assassinated Viconia with it. No antidote or magic could heal that.
@@guardians-99 What you say is truth, what I said was just me trying to rationalize a way around the issue. Bottom line the Forgotten Realms is a dark place and another tragedy doesn't make much difference.
@@guardians-99 but if she died because of the venom from llolth's fangs, could not her dead body have been revived, either by a cleric spell or taking her to a temple? it's not like her body was chopped up into lots of pieces so there would be no possiblity of reviving.
@@IrradioMan I don`t know. I heard that if someone died of natural causes in D&D, he/she can`t be resurrected. Maybe that venom prevents even this.
Viconia is the best waifu
Best tsundere
How the hell did you get the romance to work? I get to the first time you sleep with her and choose the same dialogue choices and she never talks to me again.
How far has BioWare fallen...to think they used to release masterpieces like this. The writing was superb. When can we have a proper PC RPG?
well baulders gate 3 was just announced so next year?
@@Scortch-lo3xy Dude don't try to appease him. He's a lost cause.
@@slyfer60 what?
@@slyfer60 the next game is gonna be made by the same guys who did divinity orginal sin 2
Whaa Whaa daddy doesn't love me anymore. I guess you'll have to stick with ya Pillers of Eternity 1 and 2, Tides of Numinra, or Tyranny. Oh but maybe you like shitty turn based gameplay then in that case ya got Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2 or there's always Fallout "hey let's do Xcom's gameplay but rip the fun out of it" called Wasteland 2...oh wait that's right all these games got console ports so I guess they're ruined now right?
32:49
Wtf, WHY THE FUCK THEY KILLED HER OMG
Просто нет слов выразить свое изумление! DanaDuchy
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Easiest romance in the game, also the only one i have never finished.
These romances go on for ever, i am usually done with SoA before i finish the romance :(
I generally don't play ToB, since it's easy and the story isn't really that great. But i have completed both the Aerie and Jaheira ToB and SoA romances.
Aerie is the most annoying to romance, since she leaves even if you do what she tells you she wants?...almost too realistic.
Jaheira's romance is incredibly bugged and weird (Because you have to be in specific places for certain parts to trigger, and if they trigger out of order, GG)
Viconia...well, just don't tell her to get lost.
Personally i find Jaheira to be the nicest of the bunch, with Vic as the worst.
+Zeus Blue yeah I find it funny how Viconia tries to be nice to you then is a sadistic bitch to all the other characters (particularly Aerie)
P.S. if you have EE, Neera's is the easiest. One easy quest, no situational dialogue and no way to fail :)
@uberhuber7903 Yes they did, get over it. Larian's writing has never been great.
There is no comparison between L's project and BioWare of old.
@@Ragitsu Yeah, and there are those who claim BG alleged 3 has the greatest 'writing' ever, having obviously never played a game before 2016....
@@glenbecksucksify1Who made that claim? Do you speak in jest?
@@Ragitsu Go to any video gushing over BG3, you'll see those claims in the comments without having to look too hard.
@@glenbecksucksify1 I had mentioned that I didn't want the developers placing their disgusting hands on Aerie (the Avariel), because they will make her a female dog (it is the trendy thing to do nowadays...no straightforward/unambiguous heroes in this day and age) in addition to likely rendering her off-model (L screwed up big-time when it came to the Elven physiognomy). Of course, I was accused of being prejudiced against homosexuality.
Viconia is good sex. That's all.
Too complicated and bipolar.
does she say anything if you an elf or halfelf with black skin?
Huh. Interesting question. The only "pure" (i.e., full) Elf with black skin would be another Drow.
you can't romance viconia if you are an elf, half-elf is fair game however.
She's bipolar as hell! lol
they did her dirty in Baldurs Gate 3. Turned her completely evil.
Spoilers?
@@Ragitsu made her ugly as hell too. anyway her side quest isnt mandatory and easy to miss. Its not even marked on the map.
@@purefoldnz3070 Maybe. Look, I personally have zero interest in Larian's attempt, but I also don't want people who have yet to _experience_ said attempt to be spoiled in advance.
@@Ragitsu well its the internet, things are going to be spoiled. The only way around it is not use the internet. lmao. Btw Larian did an amazing job just like the Bioware days of old.
@@purefoldnz3070 "well its the internet, things are going to be spoiled. The only way around it is not use the internet. lmao. "
Yeah...I know that there is much inconsiderate behavior on the internet; I was hoping - in this instance - to counter that with a simple request.
"Btw Larian did an amazing job just like the Bioware days of old."
Nah. What Larian put out is derivative and trendy; Bioware crafted seminal works.
Need AI voice over for all text of all companions
It's so sad that if the player chooses to romance her she just dies, the neutral ending is at least more ambiguous. I love BG3 but, for me at least, her ending there is not canon. Is it too hard for the tragic character to end their story alive and well??
Welcome to the club, they literally created a new ending that contradicts her characterization and destroys her entirely. Same treatment was reserved to Sarevok and most of the original lore... like for example, Jaheira having the nerve to say Gorion's Ward was subjected to a blood transfusion so Irenicus could steal his/her divine soul...
Was reading comments to see opinions on her character mistreatment in BG3, but man, some of you need to go outside.
Derision is a dismal substitute for discourse.
As a fan I get why people are mad but it still seems too much, hell, from a quick glance you been camping at this video for months.
@@Lev0228 CZcams notifications are sporadic.
If you say so.
There’s still a possibility she’ll turn Good, Larian wouldn’t keep her alive unless they had plans.
They've already done their damage; no need to exacerbate matters.
Given what's transpired, they obviously didn't have plans.
@@Lonewanderer30 Requesting L to fix their bungling is akin to asking an arsonist to put out a bonfire.
@@Ragitsu I'd say their inability to fix their mess had a lot to do with them jumping/being pushed from the ship.
@@Lonewanderer30 Many folks have - apparently - reached a consensus on the wild (at best) camera placement.
"IF POWER EXISTS IT EXISTS TO BE TAKEN". and Viconia simps still be like, "you wrote my character wrong in BG3!" :(
Whoa. Your avatar is freaky looking.
so sad in the end Viconia Died ops sorry spoiler