great video, thanks for that! i didn't like the 2m red (lack details) nor the 2m blue (too bright), i just ordered a VM95ML and a new TT which has a concorde design (!) with Pick it S2M (which looks like a 2m red, hopefully a bit better). I am tempted to get a OM30 which is supposed to be close to the bronze.
If Blue is too bright, definitely you should try Bronze. It has far more warmer tonal signature and is more balanced. You can check out, the list of my favorite cartridges to find something interesting for yourself maybe. To me Pick it S2 MM sounds almost identical to Red, I have not tested it side by side, but they have almost identical architecture. Maybe it is better, but I can not guarantee in comparison which one is better. And thanks for watching man it is appreciated.
I use the sumiko mc on a pro ject x2 with luxman amp etc for jazz a classic music, and I use the nagaoka on my linn LP12 with naim separates for rock and blues music
@@Ricky-cl5bu Much appreciated. May I also ask about the reason why you use them for these specific genres? What do you feel the Sumiko does better for jazz than the Nagaoka? And what makes the Nagaoka better suited for Rock and Blues? Thanks again 👍
Excellent discussion, my question, it’s not a problem because my system is upgrade for many people, is I moved up a big step with my system from a Lynn Intek amp with a revolver rebel table and sumiko bluepoint special and castle Chester speakers, to a sim audio 340 project XTension 9 with a 2m black and fyne f502 speakers. Along the way I perceive that I lost the acoustic elegance of the sound to a more clinical sound, the speakers are the newest piece but I am wondering in a more to an MC cart would bring back the nice acoustic woodiness. Am thinking an Ortofon MC or a Sumiko Starling. Cause I loved my Sumiko special. Any thoughts on an appropriate cart for the system?
You are using a hi end system, you should go with MC, no questions asked. I still don't believe that much in Cadenza and high level Ortofons, as I have not spend many time with it. Maybe in future I will sing praise to them, but now I can not do that. Straling is amazing, it will return that tonal elegance to your system, probably in this price range a cartridge to beat. The thing is... it is hard to recommend something at this high price level, as expectations are high and every cartridge have its own unique flavors that might suit you or not. My fav, high end cartridges are Van Den Hul, the Colibri is just perfect. It is really expensive thou. But I recommend to you is Goldring Ethos, an amazing value for how much it coast. It is a balanced presentation, but it opens over time with very fine details, an elegant presentation of mids that is rich with timber and soundstage which is live with expressive breath and texture.. Just an amazing cart. I dont know which is better Straling or Ethos, but if you can listen to them somewhere go check em out and compare them what might suit you.
@@HIFIDaydreaming thank you, my local dealer does ortofon and grado for sure but I don’t know about the availability of the Sumiko van den hull and others, I will do some research since I will already be looking for a phono stage
I agree with quintet blue, but do you have problems with highs with bronze? In my expiriance it is rather warm, so no picking in highs. Or maybe i misunderstood. 🙂
@@LanciaD50 sorry for misunderstanding, they certainly are. Thanks for chiming in here. I love when people leave their comments here, with their expiriance with product. It sort of create wide range of opinions on subject that could be beneficial to anyone reading this, and is in search of new catridge.
Thanks for the video. Any thoughts on the Quintet Bronze? It is on the upper limit of my budget, but I'm also considering Hana EL and Nagaoka MP-200...
Hey man thanks for watching my video! Unfortunately I have listened Quintet Bronze on, one occasion, shortly. So I don't know if I recommend or not. If you are hunting MC in that price range, than Goldring Eroica is amazing, and my recommendation. You should check it out as an alternative. If I could choose, between ones you wrote, I would go with Hana EL, unless you want bigger soundstage dispersion and little bit better separation, than I would go with Quintet Blue.
I went from 2m silver to quintet bronze them to cadenza red bronze to red was the biggest jump totally blown away so don’t feel the need to go any further after all cadenza red is£1200 uk price all this on extension 10 turntable hope that helps
@@robertsills2506 i have my sights now at cadenza lineup. Hopeful i will buy one of them soon and review them. I am so happy you enjoy your ortofon catridges.
great video!! What cartridge do you think has the best 3D image? I have plenty of MM cartridges (2M Red, 2M Blue, Sumiko Oyster, Sumiko Moonstone) and they sound pretty good but my problem with them is the lack of 3D... no deep, no separation. So I don't know if I have to go for an MC (like the Quintet Blue) or a better MM to get that 3D image that I want. What do you think is the better way? Thanks so much!!
Hey thank you for watching my video, it is really appreciated. I have a theory... a cartridge theory... that you are being bottlenecked by bad phono preamp. 2m Blue should already create more separation and depth in comparison to stock cartridge. If you try MC Quintet Blue and it does not open the disruptions and separation, the fault might not be in cartridge. But at phono preamp or your speakers. It is a common bottleneck, as cartridge truly feels alive when it is paired with talented gear. This is just my theory without me knowing your system, but it is a something common that happens to many people. It is not beneficial to buy expensive cartridges without good phono stage, or Turntable. But the biggest soundstage truly from the cartridges in the video is MC Quintet Blue. Hope this helps. :)
@@HIFIDaydreaming wow thanks for your answer bro really appreciated your theory makes A LOT of sense!!! Let me tell you a little bit about my current system, my phono-pre is pretty good, a Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2, and my speakers are amazing Magnepan 1.7i (they image like crazy with digital sources and I want to have a similar experience with vinyl). I think I will go for the Quintet Blue first and then upgrade the phono-pre. Do you have a good phono-pre to match with the Quintet? Thanks so much!!
@net_news Hey man I have to apologise, I little underestimated your gear. You have really decent equipment at your home. But here is two observations I can make, without being at your home. First is that is a Tube Box Preamp, which I love(and will review smaller brother soon), but it does not open the soundstage as much as solid state alternatives. The reason for that is because it have a warm, smooth, almost vintage sound, where upper bass is pronounced. It is full and rich, but because it is pronounced it covers little bit details in treble. Those details, helps us hear more textures and seperations on soundstage and gives us a perception of larger soundstage. That why you think that your digital sources sound better, in reality they are just more clean. So the gear you pair this with, have to either be punchy, or to purposely upgrade airiness soundstage. So pair them with amps that are natural, or punchy. (little shameless plugin by the end of next week there is going to be video of me recommending few amps you can watch and see what you like) Not warm amps, that will make sound even more smooth and warm. So I recommend the synergy to improve there, but still it is a tube amp and they are not known for super big 3D stage. Other point I can make is that you can treat early reflections in your room, they are usually at fault for smaller scope of soundstage, or to add dispersion panels to open the soundstage. But early reflections is something you should fix first or bass buildup in room. Hope this helps.
That is such a sweet setup man, you are going to love this so much. I think Sumiko Songbird would go there really nicely, it will retain a lot of punch and agility of Rega and Linn, and allow incredible extraction as well. But if you want more warmth in your system and sweetness go with Hana M series, it is a bit above 1000 but it brings warmth but without loosing much of precision and authenticity, while brining big grand sound.
I presently own the Ortofon Blue and the Nagaoka MP-200, and like the Nagaoka more, although this may depend on the genre, recording and mastering/cutting. I am, however, surprised to hear you say that the Nagaoka is more "clinical" than the Bronze and the Bronze "warmer" than the MP-200. Isn't it supposed to be the opposite? The house sound of Nagaoka is always described as warm, laid-back and even "romantic", with Ortofon known to be neutral and analytical. I am wondering why your view seems to be the opposite of the information shared by virtually everyone...
There is no Ortofon sound, it does not exist. It is because they have lineup of four colors representing different sonic spectrum, and 3 classes representing quality. Red is the balanced one, blue is the airy with a bit dynamics tipped to treble, bronze is warm and a bit balanced, black is fast, agile and treble rich. The basic versions are 2m, if you want more quality than go to Quintet after that to Cadenza. In comparison to Nagaoka that is a bit warm, it is more clear so there is a bit more details that are being extracted in mids and treble, the system is a bit better resolving them. Bronze as bronze is a bit more warm, and bass and mids are fuller and larger. To me true definition of romantic cartridge is Hana. Hope this explained what I said and meant.
@@HIFIDaydreaming Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I definitely appreciate it. Based on what you're saying, it is the Bronze that would suit me, and over the past week, I have actually been considering the possibility of buying it (even before seeing this video). The thing is, I have a tube preamp paired with a Marantz amp, on which I use "source direct" to avoid influencing the sound. Now, I like my sound warm and vinyl-y, which is why I chose a tube preamp. In combination with my Nagaoka Mp-200, the bass is very powerful and the mids lush and rich, with the treble being very pleasant and not fatiguing. When I use my Ortofon 2m Blue, I feel the sound gets airier but also rather trebly and detailed. I like details, which obviously depend a lot on treble, but I do not enjoy a very trebly sound. Thinking about what you wrote, am I right to understand that the Bronze would offer me both warmth and details without being excessively trebly? If so, then i will most probably buy it and see how it compares to the Nagaoka MP-200. Thanks in advance for your answer. (Hana is another option I am considering).
@@r.8405 haha okey here is what i think. You think that nagaokau is warm because you connected it through tube preamp and marantz, which is a warm amp. So you got a lot of warmth in your system. Source direct just block static interference from digital inputs from your amp. I don't know how much effect on sound it really have. Honestly i did not understand what you meant with your comment, what exactly you miss in your sound. Would you like your sound to be more warmer or detailed? But in my opinion tubes pre amp and marantz are not the best combo as they create overly warm sound, and usely they require something with more punch to even it out. Something like sumiko moonstone. I recommend for you to watch my video where i recommend catridges, i wrote with everyone which amp/preamp combo it fits best. Everyone where i say warm /tubes go well, should pick your interest. czcams.com/video/w1q4FjL2zKU/video.html
@@r.8405 of course you could also pick warmer catridges. But than buy more expensive ones, not bronze. Go with hana sl or ml. Because better catridges will extract more details even if they are warm in nature.
@@HIFIDaydreaming Thank you for all the advice and pointers. I will check the other video now, and think about your recommendations. Indeed, my ideal sound is warm and detailed, as you yourself understood. Everyone says that Marantz has a warm sound, but in my view, it's detailed and laid-back, not SO warm. Or maybe it's just my own specific amp that is like that (Marantz PM 7000N). So, we'll see what I decide. One possibility is to go with the Ortofon 2M Bronze and use it for a while along with my Nagaoka MP-200, and then when they're worn out, move on to Hana or maybe even Nagaoka MP-500. There are so many different options, and I do not want to skip stages by simply jumping a few levels.
I have the bronze, very happy
great video, thanks for that! i didn't like the 2m red (lack details) nor the 2m blue (too bright), i just ordered a VM95ML and a new TT which has a concorde design (!) with Pick it S2M (which looks like a 2m red, hopefully a bit better). I am tempted to get a OM30 which is supposed to be close to the bronze.
If Blue is too bright, definitely you should try Bronze. It has far more warmer tonal signature and is more balanced. You can check out, the list of my favorite cartridges to find something interesting for yourself maybe. To me Pick it S2 MM sounds almost identical to Red, I have not tested it side by side, but they have almost identical architecture. Maybe it is better, but I can not guarantee in comparison which one is better. And thanks for watching man it is appreciated.
Nagaoka mp200 is an amazing cartridge, I have it and the sumiko bluebird Mc , I love the both of them for different music
Sumiko Songbird is amazing. Just the right price for such a value on MC market.
Ricky, just wondering what you use each of them for. Would you mind sharing your thoughts and cartridge preferences in terms of music genres?
I use the sumiko mc on a pro ject x2 with luxman amp etc for jazz a classic music, and I use the nagaoka on my linn LP12 with naim separates for rock and blues music
@@Ricky-cl5bu Much appreciated. May I also ask about the reason why you use them for these specific genres? What do you feel the Sumiko does better for jazz than the Nagaoka? And what makes the Nagaoka better suited for Rock and Blues? Thanks again 👍
@@r.8405 the nagaoka has punch like Mike Tyson the and the sumiko is very smooth and detailed
Great comparison! I have Ortofon 2m Black, but I think bigger value lies in Bronze and Blue.
Thanks man, and thanks for wathcing!
Excellent discussion, my question, it’s not a problem because my system is upgrade for many people, is I moved up a big step with my system from a Lynn Intek amp with a revolver rebel table and sumiko bluepoint special and castle Chester speakers, to a sim audio 340 project XTension 9 with a 2m black and fyne f502 speakers. Along the way I perceive that I lost the acoustic elegance of the sound to a more clinical sound, the speakers are the newest piece but I am wondering in a more to an MC cart would bring back the nice acoustic woodiness. Am thinking an Ortofon MC or a Sumiko Starling. Cause I loved my Sumiko special. Any thoughts on an appropriate cart for the system?
You are using a hi end system, you should go with MC, no questions asked. I still don't believe that much in Cadenza and high level Ortofons, as I have not spend many time with it. Maybe in future I will sing praise to them, but now I can not do that. Straling is amazing, it will return that tonal elegance to your system, probably in this price range a cartridge to beat. The thing is... it is hard to recommend something at this high price level, as expectations are high and every cartridge have its own unique flavors that might suit you or not. My fav, high end cartridges are Van Den Hul, the Colibri is just perfect. It is really expensive thou. But I recommend to you is Goldring Ethos, an amazing value for how much it coast. It is a balanced presentation, but it opens over time with very fine details, an elegant presentation of mids that is rich with timber and soundstage which is live with expressive breath and texture.. Just an amazing cart. I dont know which is better Straling or Ethos, but if you can listen to them somewhere go check em out and compare them what might suit you.
@@HIFIDaydreaming thank you, my local dealer does ortofon and grado for sure but I don’t know about the availability of the Sumiko van den hull and others, I will do some research since I will already be looking for a phono stage
Hello. I have both, but the quintet blue has a slight roll off off the High frequencies while the mm bronze is more "sparkling" at highs.
I agree with quintet blue, but do you have problems with highs with bronze? In my expiriance it is rather warm, so no picking in highs. Or maybe i misunderstood. 🙂
@@HIFIDaydreaming aabsolutely not. Highs in mm bronze are wonderful and sweet
@@LanciaD50 sorry for misunderstanding, they certainly are. Thanks for chiming in here. I love when people leave their comments here, with their expiriance with product. It sort of create wide range of opinions on subject that could be beneficial to anyone reading this, and is in search of new catridge.
@@HIFIDaydreaming thank you for your video!
The AT 14S was a shibata stylus cartridge, bought it in April 1975.
Thanks for the video. Any thoughts on the Quintet Bronze? It is on the upper limit of my budget, but I'm also considering Hana EL and Nagaoka MP-200...
Hey man thanks for watching my video! Unfortunately I have listened Quintet Bronze on, one occasion, shortly. So I don't know if I recommend or not. If you are hunting MC in that price range, than Goldring Eroica is amazing, and my recommendation. You should check it out as an alternative. If I could choose, between ones you wrote, I would go with Hana EL, unless you want bigger soundstage dispersion and little bit better separation, than I would go with Quintet Blue.
I went from 2m silver to quintet bronze them to cadenza red bronze to red was the biggest jump totally blown away so don’t feel the need to go any further after all cadenza red is£1200 uk price all this on extension 10 turntable hope that helps
@@robertsills2506 i have my sights now at cadenza lineup. Hopeful i will buy one of them soon and review them. I am so happy you enjoy your ortofon catridges.
great video!! What cartridge do you think has the best 3D image? I have plenty of MM cartridges (2M Red, 2M Blue, Sumiko Oyster, Sumiko Moonstone) and they sound pretty good but my problem with them is the lack of 3D... no deep, no separation.
So I don't know if I have to go for an MC (like the Quintet Blue) or a better MM to get that 3D image that I want. What do you think is the better way? Thanks so much!!
Hey thank you for watching my video, it is really appreciated. I have a theory... a cartridge theory... that you are being bottlenecked by bad phono preamp. 2m Blue should already create more separation and depth in comparison to stock cartridge. If you try MC Quintet Blue and it does not open the disruptions and separation, the fault might not be in cartridge. But at phono preamp or your speakers. It is a common bottleneck, as cartridge truly feels alive when it is paired with talented gear. This is just my theory without me knowing your system, but it is a something common that happens to many people. It is not beneficial to buy expensive cartridges without good phono stage, or Turntable. But the biggest soundstage truly from the cartridges in the video is MC Quintet Blue. Hope this helps. :)
@@HIFIDaydreaming wow thanks for your answer bro really appreciated your theory makes A LOT of sense!!!
Let me tell you a little bit about my current system, my phono-pre is pretty good, a Pro-Ject Tube Box DS2, and my speakers are amazing Magnepan 1.7i (they image like crazy with digital sources and I want to have a similar experience with vinyl).
I think I will go for the Quintet Blue first and then upgrade the phono-pre. Do you have a good phono-pre to match with the Quintet?
Thanks so much!!
@net_news Hey man I have to apologise, I little underestimated your gear. You have really decent equipment at your home. But here is two observations I can make, without being at your home. First is that is a Tube Box Preamp, which I love(and will review smaller brother soon), but it does not open the soundstage as much as solid state alternatives. The reason for that is because it have a warm, smooth, almost vintage sound, where upper bass is pronounced. It is full and rich, but because it is pronounced it covers little bit details in treble. Those details, helps us hear more textures and seperations on soundstage and gives us a perception of larger soundstage. That why you think that your digital sources sound better, in reality they are just more clean. So the gear you pair this with, have to either be punchy, or to purposely upgrade airiness soundstage. So pair them with amps that are natural, or punchy. (little shameless plugin by the end of next week there is going to be video of me recommending few amps you can watch and see what you like) Not warm amps, that will make sound even more smooth and warm. So I recommend the synergy to improve there, but still it is a tube amp and they are not known for super big 3D stage. Other point I can make is that you can treat early reflections in your room, they are usually at fault for smaller scope of soundstage, or to add dispersion panels to open the soundstage. But early reflections is something you should fix first or bass buildup in room. Hope this helps.
not your cart
system problem
@@samgeddes783 not a system problem because it sounds super 3D with CDs and streaming.
Advice please
I have a linn lp12
Arcam a25 coming next week
Rega fono mc mk4
Keff ls50
Which mc cartridge would you suggest up to £1000 or just over
That is such a sweet setup man, you are going to love this so much. I think Sumiko Songbird would go there really nicely, it will retain a lot of punch and agility of Rega and Linn, and allow incredible extraction as well. But if you want more warmth in your system and sweetness go with Hana M series, it is a bit above 1000 but it brings warmth but without loosing much of precision and authenticity, while brining big grand sound.
Thank for getting back so quickly. I will investigate both and let you know which or go for. ( if either )
Cheers
I presently own the Ortofon Blue and the Nagaoka MP-200, and like the Nagaoka more, although this may depend on the genre, recording and mastering/cutting. I am, however, surprised to hear you say that the Nagaoka is more "clinical" than the Bronze and the Bronze "warmer" than the MP-200. Isn't it supposed to be the opposite? The house sound of Nagaoka is always described as warm, laid-back and even "romantic", with Ortofon known to be neutral and analytical. I am wondering why your view seems to be the opposite of the information shared by virtually everyone...
There is no Ortofon sound, it does not exist. It is because they have lineup of four colors representing different sonic spectrum, and 3 classes representing quality. Red is the balanced one, blue is the airy with a bit dynamics tipped to treble, bronze is warm and a bit balanced, black is fast, agile and treble rich. The basic versions are 2m, if you want more quality than go to Quintet after that to Cadenza. In comparison to Nagaoka that is a bit warm, it is more clear so there is a bit more details that are being extracted in mids and treble, the system is a bit better resolving them. Bronze as bronze is a bit more warm, and bass and mids are fuller and larger. To me true definition of romantic cartridge is Hana. Hope this explained what I said and meant.
@@HIFIDaydreaming Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I definitely appreciate it. Based on what you're saying, it is the Bronze that would suit me, and over the past week, I have actually been considering the possibility of buying it (even before seeing this video). The thing is, I have a tube preamp paired with a Marantz amp, on which I use "source direct" to avoid influencing the sound. Now, I like my sound warm and vinyl-y, which is why I chose a tube preamp. In combination with my Nagaoka Mp-200, the bass is very powerful and the mids lush and rich, with the treble being very pleasant and not fatiguing. When I use my Ortofon 2m Blue, I feel the sound gets airier but also rather trebly and detailed. I like details, which obviously depend a lot on treble, but I do not enjoy a very trebly sound. Thinking about what you wrote, am I right to understand that the Bronze would offer me both warmth and details without being excessively trebly? If so, then i will most probably buy it and see how it compares to the Nagaoka MP-200. Thanks in advance for your answer. (Hana is another option I am considering).
@@r.8405 haha okey here is what i think. You think that nagaokau is warm because you connected it through tube preamp and marantz, which is a warm amp. So you got a lot of warmth in your system. Source direct just block static interference from digital inputs from your amp. I don't know how much effect on sound it really have. Honestly i did not understand what you meant with your comment, what exactly you miss in your sound. Would you like your sound to be more warmer or detailed? But in my opinion tubes pre amp and marantz are not the best combo as they create overly warm sound, and usely they require something with more punch to even it out. Something like sumiko moonstone. I recommend for you to watch my video where i recommend catridges, i wrote with everyone which amp/preamp combo it fits best. Everyone where i say warm /tubes go well, should pick your interest. czcams.com/video/w1q4FjL2zKU/video.html
@@r.8405 of course you could also pick warmer catridges. But than buy more expensive ones, not bronze. Go with hana sl or ml. Because better catridges will extract more details even if they are warm in nature.
@@HIFIDaydreaming Thank you for all the advice and pointers. I will check the other video now, and think about your recommendations. Indeed, my ideal sound is warm and detailed, as you yourself understood. Everyone says that Marantz has a warm sound, but in my view, it's detailed and laid-back, not SO warm. Or maybe it's just my own specific amp that is like that (Marantz PM 7000N). So, we'll see what I decide. One possibility is to go with the Ortofon 2M Bronze and use it for a while along with my Nagaoka MP-200, and then when they're worn out, move on to Hana or maybe even Nagaoka MP-500. There are so many different options, and I do not want to skip stages by simply jumping a few levels.
Great Video 🎉 i want to go to the Bronze from the Blue.
Thanks man, be prepared for more balanced but more detailed sound.
@@HIFIDaydreaming right on, I am ready
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