Why You SHOULD Use Recon- Response to Feedback's Video
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- čas přidán 7. 03. 2022
- Feedback Gaming's Video on Recon: • WHY You Should NEVER U...
Feedback's Response to Commenters: • There are two types of...
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You know what is even more based. The fact that the algorithm showed it to me.
Even for single player I'm not willing to give up on recon just yet. The movement bonus on 'difficult' terrain makes it more than worth it on specific divisions, like motorized, armor and even attacking infantry. Do I need recon on my defensive infantry? Nah, Feedback convinced me there.
Another cool thing is if you end up with excess armored cars (which you almost certainly will mid/late game) they double as super strong Military police devisions.
What you are saying is true, (i think) however, compared to other support battalions would not be as effective in buffing your divisions as lets say a support artillery, which you would probably add anyway. therefore it would be better to add those factories to the artillery line.
Also, from what I can tell from the video this is more of a niche Large nation thing, where you have hundreds of divisions and adding a cheep company to your template can make life easier. (it also appears to be better for battle planing which a lot of players don't seem to do often.?)
In conclusion i would like to mention I have no hard feelings to anyone who plays HOI4 In any way shape or form, after all it is just a game and sometimes people, (myself included) can get riled up about 1% this and 0.05 extra that, all that leads to is a toxic community and unpleasant experience for newer players. It is MY personal Opinion that in most circumstances, recon is useless.
but support equipment is cheaper isnt it? also fighter planes can now double as scouts so u can add recon bonuses that way, combining this with a recon company would be a really cheap way to get a decent buff, its really good for early game and probably still helps mid game, but u should have enough mills by then for it to not matter as much.
5:12 "We got Muchos Huevos" XD
If recon only gives you a higher chance for counter strats while on the offensive which I still feel is a bit dubious then... it isn't something to never use. It is something to use in your defensive divisions and your speedy boys for the bonus to movement speed. In those circumstances you can forgo it for slower moving heavy tanks and field artillery.
I never used recon for tactics but for movement speed, 10 support equipment for 10% land movement it is worth it specially for an industrial power like Germany
Also armor recon it's OP for infantry if You make an light tank with a ton of armor your infantry gets like 70% of that armor
Apparently a support flame tank is replacing light tank recon meta wise.
Exactly this. I keep using recon for specific divisions that require movement speed the most: my attacking infantry, motorized and armor divisions in the early game.
I would be wary of putting light tank recons in all of my divisions, because of possible fuel penalties in low-supply area's
To quote Dankus in agreement "Stats are stats every bit helps."
I use recon for suppression and in my tanks support company. I’m pretty sure he was just tryin to change up the meta. What else would you put instead of recon in tanks?
True story
recon helps supression!?
Bare in mind my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt as I have yet to play No Step. Waiting for all bugs to be cleaned out as I don't like paying to playtest and am still a bit buttmad about Leviathan.
I do use recon in my tanks for the speed bonus, but I think there are viable alternatives.
Artillery, antiair, engineers, maintenance, logistics and signal are all would do well as support companies in a tank division and the raw numbers they give might outweight the speed and tactical bonus recon gives.
Armored cars aren't the meta for suppression anymore. You can make a cheap interwar light tank with the same suppression, more hardness so less losses and for almost half the cost(2.4ic vs 4 ic for cheapest armored car)
I like buidling infantry equipment I for suppression. I have not tested it vs. the tanks but it is a low IC cost.
*the information above is incorrect* . The whole point Feedback made that video is that we, those of us that actually test and break down the stats for the game but don't run youtube channels, ran tests with the new preferred tactics system; the PTS completely cancels out recon besides stat boosts. That was that whole line of 'if you select the same preferred tactic all three times, it'll unbalance your army bit'. Because of how the tactics system overall works, it's possible for you to have the best recon, have the AI select the correct counter, but your PTS says 'no we're going to blitz'. Also doesn't stop you from picking one of the two tactics that just wins 90% of the time. More over, that 1% bonus that is the entire focus of this video doesn't apply if a) their general AND/OR field marshal are higher level, or b) they have signal company.
The only reason to build recon is to build light armor recon and get the bonuses from that. The added stats from that have significantly higher impact that a 1% bonus vs common -50% malus. Don't waste a mill on armored cars, they have no use in this version now.
You missed the point of the video: a 1% bonus is a 1% bonus. Doesn't matter how you arrive there as long as there is very little downside. This is the problem with a lot of MP players I used to play with. They got lost in the minutiae instead of focusing on what works vs. what doesn't work.
BASED.
Hey ESG, what do you think of the idea to put 2 mils at the start of the game on light tanks to get a few divisions at the start of the war. Or arent they worth at all?
Not worth it unless you plan to covert the tanks to flame tanks or better LT's.
valid if tank volunteers are allowed, just make a good design !!
I've watched those videos, and I honestly agree with him. For the most part (outside armored recon) it's useless to dedicate factories to such a small gain. But I only play minors. Playing majors in this game is like putting Dark Souls on Disney level of difficulty.
Good to hear from u! The Dark Souls reference is hilarious.
IDK if I ever saw a feedback video on MP gaming so it wasnt really fair to bring him in. I sooo wanna find a good use for armored cars in single play but after I built a bunch they always end up policing and light tanks doing the recon. Or Cav recon for the main infantry templates
Nothing against Feedback. Just looking at his video from an MP perspective. Feedback doesn’t play MP.
OMG! Feedback ESG Collab FTW!!!!
I wish I had the Huevos for MP, but I am a grande Pollo! BAWK BAWK!
Armored recon for the S P E E D and somehow armor, and flame tanks, the unstoppable minor nation beast, but it takes a shit ton of time to do in the minor nations…
There u go my man!
@@ESG1 Also, I forgot to say to get the arty and anti air support companies, it’s really easy to mass produce these divisions while you don’t have enough mills and civs to get fighters and CAS and when done correctly you can destroy a major this way
ESG, ik you like playing as Germany, but what other countries do you play as in single player. I'm a big Japan/Facist or non aligned England guy
I like Italy, France, Romania and Czech
@@ESG1 Napolionic France 👀
Where is the data saying Recon bonus only gives you 1% more attack/stats coming from? I'm legitimately curious how that was tested and whether it was used in conjunction with, for example, stacking preferred tactic on Staff + Field Marshal + General.
I think you can find it on Feedback's discord server.
The think is, testing you actually perform worse with recon due tu org loss.
That’s what the article saind, after testing you LOSE attack….
But again, I did not test
“1 to 2 percent attack” to quote feedback
@@ESG1
I bet in MP every % counts! Never played MP! But in competitive games, every margin is important i am sure!
Just quoting what i read in the article!
Thanks for the answer! love your vids
Back in 2019 i started playing Germany because of you and your insane strats! Thanks!
@@MrScarduelli Much appreciated! Finally someone who gets me.
org is not nearly as important as attack breakthrough and defense on tanks
That ending was hilarious lol
So my attacking divisions have AA, Logistics, Flame tanks, Arty and Rocket Arty. I just don't have space for recon.
That sounds OP but incredibly expensive.
@@ESG1 Not really. Flame tanks are cheap, because they are there for the mad bonuses they grant. Arty and rocket arty cost barely anything as you need 12 of each of them for every division. AA is somewhat expensive and Logistics are logistics. I should point out that this division requires sacrifices in research, so tank reaserch shall be forgotten. These are mechanized divisions.
I don't know how optimal they may be against compitent players. The AI doesn't obviusly have any answer and neither do my friends, who have 10 times less play time.
i mainly just use it to get dozer blade
Soviet player?
@@ESG1 not really into public mp lobbies or sp. But I will be playing soviet's in a 2v1 against some buddies on axis pretty soon I think. Gotta brush up, that's how I got here.
@@ESG1 Germany player lost half a mill in Belgium and we all went defensive builds till we got bored and stopped playing.
Lol!
Can we take a moment to appreciate the meme-ness that is multiplayer these days, that not only do you effectively have an alliance with Hungry and likely Romania on day 1, but you skip out on production to specifically have them produce a whole section of your war economy? This is why MP has gotten so boring; There's so little variation because of this expectation.
What killed MP is that tanks don't work as well anymore.
That's not meme-ness. It's efficient teamplay
@@ESG1 tanks are even better now
@@pcgaming7680 They're worse actually. Mods have to fix them.
@@mr__music5719 stat wise they are much better, but they take 3x the previous research
The point of his video was that you don't get the "1% buff" on the attacker's side I think. Because recon only affects counter tactics.
Check out feedback's video. He states Recon is a 1 to 2% buff on the offensive that is even better on the defensive. I don't know about you but my tanks often have to defend counter attacks as well.
@@ESG1 yeah especially in MP
Well played ESG
Thanks!
If you really need support equipment, recon may not be the best addition.
Choosing the right tactics makes 1% difference? WTF? Amongst the most unrealistic things in hoi4
recon itself is shit but breakthrough light tank as armored recon is very good
Recon isn't worth the loss in organisation on tank divisions imo, but adding light tank armored recon to basically double the breakthrough of infantry and add that tiny bit of armor and piercing to them is insanely good in singleplayer.
I'll try that out, thanks!
Oh, don't mind me. I'm just sitting here eating some popcorn. :D 🍿
Lol!
Why the heck you put that code of conduct? I wanted to tell, I will quote you in making my future mod, but you prohibited me!
Jk, Jk, Lv u anyway
What code of conduct?
@@ESG1 Later I found it on other channel, so I guess it is something CZcams enabled automatically. When I wanted to post something, I had to agree to 3 points about being nice, not swearing and not autopromoting
@@Glassius89 Sounds like it is a youtube thing.
The main problem with your video is that you assume that the counter tactic is actually better which isn't really true. You'd think it would be true but nope it just isnt. Fact is no defensive tactics can be countered only offensive ones. That means it's only useful to have recon on defensive divisions which isn't viable. Recon is still garbage but hey the movement bonuses can be ok in sp but it's irrelevant in mp.
What about the base stats?
@@ESG1 is the base stats really better than having a bit more cas or more fighters tho.
Or even more artillery so you could step up production from art1 to art2 quicker if rubber ends up being too much of a limit.
@@michaelgoldsmith9359 Yes, because I can get equipement from my minors but I can't get fighter II or more CAS from my minors.
@@michaelgoldsmith9359 I'm an axis player so not really an artillery fan.