Do You Really Need To Flatten Your Hand Plane’s Sole? | Hand Plane Foundations
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2022
- Welcome to my Hand Plane Foundations course. In this course I'm going to introduce the different types of bench planes and discuss their setup and use, focusing on the planes you’ll need most as a new hand tool woodworker. I’ll cover sharpening the iron, setting up the cap iron, and troubleshooting and tuning the tool up to perform at its best. I’ll finish up by building a modern two tone cutting board from some beautiful North American hardwoods, completely by hand.
- Jak na to + styl
As always, great tuition. Thanks.
Regarding the wear of the paper. I would work the plane on say the left side of the paper until the paper stops effective cutting. I would then move across a little over the width of the sole and work on fresh grit. When that ceases being effective I would move over again etc etc. The full width of the paper is eventually used up and the sole has had the most effective cutting, consistently.
This is one of the best videos on the subject of flattening plane soles. No BS just common sense advice and I am so pleased you mention that you do not need the plane blade in and under tension to flatten the sole. I have restored many planes and set them up on a surface table using a DTI and the tensioning does not affect the sole at all. Great job!!!
Not disputing the benefit of changing your sandpaper sheet frequently when it wears but if you spend about twice the time at the edges of the paper as opposed to the center, wouldn't that wear the paper more evenly and reduce that tendency to convex your plane sole?
Great as always my friend!
Thanks Tim!
Thanks for the video. For fine furniture making you need your plane to be dead flat along and across the sole. At least at the toe, the heel and the mouth areas. The difference in performance can be significant and sometimes detrimental in fine woodworking applications. Great job again.
Great video. I have however had to start with much coarser sandpaper on some ebay planes in fairly bad shape to restore them.
thanks
When I first got into planes I tried to flatten the sole of my no 4 on a diamond stone. This was a HORIABLE idea because I messed it up by around 0.01. I have been having a hard time finding a surface flat enough so I asked a blade making friend to barrow some precision ground O1 to put some sand paper on.
A few years ago, I went to a Habitat ReStore and found two pieces of granite (3ft x 6in and 4ft x 4in) for under $10 each.
Great suggestion!
Make sure you bring your straightedge if you do this though. Not all granite is flat. DAMHIK!
If you go to a countertop store, especially one that deals with stone countertops in particular, they will usually be willing to sell you cutt-off prices from things like sink installs. Sometimes you get it for free, they were just going to throw it out, or cheap. Make sure it is flat though! The other option, although will cost more, is to get some thick float glass as it is very flat just because of how it is made.
Hi Bob, interesting video. I have inherited an old Sears plane that was taken care of poorly. The blade was exposed and has a deep nick in it. I'll address that later with stones and a sharpening guide. Right now, the sole is also rusty but not pitted. I've disassembled the plane and am in the process of cleaning/polishing it all up. While I was cleaning the sole and running it over some 600 grit sandpaper on a flat surface, I found that the sole is concave. The side, front and rear edges polished up right quick on the sandpaper but the center along its length is not being touched by the sandpaper.
Now I'm using a more aggressive grit (220) and trying to get the whole sole flat.
Is it worth it? Should I spend the hours on this or just chuck it and get a new one? I'm not even sure if this plane could be sharpened and tuned to work as a general usage flattening/jointing/chamfering plane?
What do you think?
If the sole is quite a few thou out and you really want the plane, it may be quicker/easier to take it to a friend that can run a milling machine. I have seen ten or twelve inch jointer beds milled down true and flat in a relatively short amount of time on a milling machine. You will need to figure in the cost of the milling vs buying a new upper end plane ( Veritas, LN, etc..)
I agree with most of what you said, but have you checked with the blade installed afterwards that it's still flat? Tension from the cap iron apparently can flex the sole to some degree.
I would still try to not put all that fine metal dust into the air. :)
Cool video, found interesting that you hold plane in same manner as me, just makes sense ,but always wondered if I was making error. I sometimes clean my sand paper with eraser for belt sander, but perhaps should do as you suggest and just change out faster.
I agree 100% that you are correct, but there are plenty of CZcams wood tool fetishists that will have a melt down if you don't leave the blade in!
It would seem to me that if the blade can make a difference in lapping, then the plane simply is too weak, and the power being put into the plane would also distort it with no way of fixing it.
What were you using to hold the sand paper to the Stone?
I used spray adhesive. Some say 3M Spray 77 is the best, but it's quite expensive, I bought Mastons general spray adhesive, worked fine when I flattened my Stanley 4 and 5 and one small block plane.
I’m always a little tempted to transition to transitional planes because of this. I don’t mind the classic all wooden planes or tap adjusting, but having all the adjusters in one spot is handy.
I never make the move though because I always have this little vision of the wood sole having some movement and flexes or twists the frame the frog sits on, ensuring no amount of flattening the sole ever makes it plane well because all the problems are on the top side.
I haven’t noticed such a thing on my later made no. 26 jack plane that I sometimes force into a short jointer role due to space constraints though. I think that concern grew after looking at a friend’s Sargent transitional smoothing plane and saw that the frog is screwed directly into the frame rather than into the wood sole like with my Stanley made one.
Vincent just wondering if you remeber with direction is to advance blade on Sargent transitional? My 26 is a later one and is right turn advance. Like the idea of more solid mount for frog on my foreplane.
Hi Jim,
It was counter clockwise for a deeper cut. And I like how Sargent did it too, despite my original concern. It would make it way easier to make a new sole for it and have been looking for an unhandled smoothing one. My friend's is a stepped Razee shape.
How do you get that massive surface plate on your bench!
It’s only about 80 lb.
@@BobRozaieskiFineWoodworking Looked a lot heaver! I often lift my smaller workshop anvil that is around 90 lbs on the bench. I have 2 type 11 no 5 1/2 planes that are in the restoration process. I know some use them as a large smoother. Should I flatten their sole if they are out by a few thou?
I probably wouldn’t bother. I don’t like long or wide smoothing planes.
Can you please explain why you keep saying you don't want the edges of the plane rounded over? This flies in the face of nearly every other woodworker I know who purposely round over the corners, by attaching a ruler to the flattening plate, and riding the the opposite edge of the sole on the ruler. Paul Sellers has a video showing you exactly how to do this. What are we missing?
I was also wondering this..
He is talking about rounding the entire breadth of the sole, not the tiny little chamfer on the corners.
You're thinking of the chamfers while he is only speaking of the sole.
You don’t think having the iron and lever cap in the plane flexes the sole slightly enough to make a difference?
Not at all. The iron and lever cap are not joined to the sole/main casting at all. They only attach to the frog. So they may put some minor flex in the frog but not the main casting. If the main casting is flexing when the iron is locked into the plane, that means the lever cap is so tight that it’s causing the frog to flex, which would be a tremendous feat. It would require the lever cap to be so tight you’d probably need two hands or a clamp to lock it down. That’s way too tight for the lever cap. The lever cap needs to be snug, not super tight. So if locking the lever cap down flexes the main casting, the lever cap is too tight. You need to loosen the lever cap not lap the plane’s sole.
Now wooden planes are a whole different story, but this video isn’t about wooden planes.
@@BobRozaieskiFineWoodworking you sir explain things very well. Thanks, I entirely agree.
@@BobRozaieskiFineWoodworking As evident by shavings produced.
1. If you say something that contradicts what experienced woodworkers say - that you dont need the blade inbthe plane when flattening, please provide some proof.
2. How coarse sandpaper you need for flattening depends on the sole material. Old planes are made from softer iron while new ones usually from harder, so youll need ~100 grit othereise it will take ages.
If the tiny force of the screw was enough to distort the entire plane, then the power of your hands pushing the plane would be far more than needed to distort the entire plane. (you would never get it flat) Instead. the plane is so much stronger as to distort the blade.
I don't understand why woodworker's don't metal scape the bottoms and then lap out the scrape marks with emory cloth.
My reasons are 1) Metal scraping takes time and skill (I scraped a #5-it was my only plane for a while), and 2) Sand paper on a "flat" reference surface is sufficient in nearly every case.
Most woodworkers don’t have the necessary tools to scrape. Lapping is easy and lets them use tools/materials they already have and are already familiar with.
@@BobRozaieskiFineWoodworking Metal scraping will takes a few minutes to get a plane's bottom flat, depending on the precision desired. Trying to flatten anything larger than a #4 will wear your ass flat out. You only need a tube of Dykem paste or any brand ($15 should last for ever) and a Dremel with a conical stone, a or a even old file with a profiled tip.
To each their own. I’ve done it and don’t find it any easier. It’s certainly way messier. And if so much metal needs to be removed that the sole can’t be lapped flat enough in 20-30 minutes, the plane isn’t worth the effort regardless of the method.
As for lapping planes longer than a number 4 I don’t see a need to do so. None of them (at least the way I work) need to be as flat as a smoother as none of them will ever be set up to take a cut as fine as a smoother.
@@BobRozaieskiFineWoodworking Very true. LOL! A few years ago, around the time you released your first videos, flattening planes and chisels were all the rage on CZcams and magazines. It left the impression that a hand plane is useless unless you flatten the hell out of it. I was one of the victims. I remember obsessing with a ruler after what seemed like hours of flattening. Every time I checked the sole against the ruler holding it up to the light, I noticed a pattern of light touching every so often across my ruler. I figured I still had more flattening to do and continued lapping away. Tired and frustrated, I finally gave up and I'm glad I did, or I would have ground away the entire bottom of my 607. After some research, I discovered the light pattern was due to the sandpaper's grit size! LOL! Thanks!
The metal dust is not good to breathe in. I would reccomend using a mask or a lapping fluid.
95% of youtube lapping planes is so horribly wrong, they take a plane and just lap until they get scratch marks all over, then say it's flat without actually checking with a reliable straight edge, when in reality it's worse than before.
Two things with this, even though it isn't great for an old plane that is abused/rusty/worn would it still be better then it was before and good enough for woodworking, which doesn't need the same accuracy as metalwork?
Second do you have videos or instructions on how to properly sand a plane bottom flat? I've heard that there are particular ways to sand/file items to make sure it is actually lapped/shaped correctly.
@@Swarm509 Easiest way I know of to get a flat plane without access to a machinist shop is to find a really flat lap (this is the hardest part) and use it very minimally. Get some blue layout ink, lap for a couple of seconds, check it, draw file the high spots and repeat the whole process while also checking with a straight edge. You basically want to avoid lapping as much as possible because sandpaper will always wear unevenly and will always give you a convex sole. Small imperfections do not matter, what you want to avoid is a convex sole. If you start with a concave sole it's pretty easy, but if you start with a convex sole it will be a lot harder, most likely you will have to selectively scrape (or sand with small block) until you get close to a flat or slightly concave sole then start the lapping/drawfiling process. Or just don't do it at all, get yourself a premium NR.5 to flatten wooden planes and forget about all this metal plane flattening work.