Harley Davidson vs Ducati - What is a Premium Brand?
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- čas přidán 7. 02. 2022
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I've owned several harleys. I ride an Indian and, on days I'm feeling younger, a 74 AMF. I will say that the most fun and the best all around bike I owned was my 2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100. Wish I still had her.
Excellent analogy. I guess I'm a victim of marketing & hype as I own both marques. My advice buy within your means, proudly ride whatever you own👍.
If 59 is the year you were born then same here! I only have one bike, a Ducati Sport Tourer. I’d like it to have more lazy lower rpm torque like a HD but it keeps me changing gears more frequently and can be exciting when pushed. In either case have fun, stay safe and enjoy life
When I think of Harley, I think of veterans and other retired government employees who live from paycheck to paychek and beyond their means. While back I considered Harley. My wife said, you are not getting old man bike. Then I asked, how about Ducati or BMW? She said those are ok, especially Ducati. So I did my research and bought Yamaha Super Tenere.
Hey, I am a retired Marine and ride a Harley🤣🤣 Wife former Navy, she rides a Harley. We don't live exactly from paycheck to paycheck at least. Love what you ride, ride what you love. The tenere is a great bikes, enjoy. Should have went with a KTM 1290 Super Adventure though, way more expensive and makes you look cool, a long as you only wear Klim gear. We have 5 bikes, one is a KTM 450EXC, I am not a great off-roader, but I look really cool on that orange bike.
@@michaelconran5252 :-) We have only four. Mrs got her M licence and decided that was enough for her. Now, I have to keep fluids running through all of them. As for off roading, same here. Not really much time lately to hit dirt trails.
@@oknevals I am lucky. Wife loves riding. She likes to ride fast, ne I am a cruiser type.
I enjoy and feel great on any motorcycle. As they say, “It’s all about the ride” not the brand. 😉
I drive a Honda Ridgeline and ride a Honda Africa Twin. Although not considered a luxury brand they are reliable, do everything that I want them to do and as far as price they are affordable. I consider that a true luxury.
It’s all hype - I like my Harley’s but just as happy on my Suzuki
Great video and topic as usual.
I ride an RE Interceptor (slightly modified) and the bike gets attention from all types everywhere I go.
It was inexpensive, feels classic and provides all the performance I need, certainly not a "premium" brand but brings me the most joy of any bike I've owned.
That South Park episode is gold!
Loving this new content! Well written and unique perspectives. Keep on keeping on!
You do a great job in laying out your subjects and stories. I really enjoy your content. Thank you for posting!!!
As usual, well done 👍 I look forward to seeing every installment..generally a cut above the rest of the pack
Yes, a premium brand makes me feel special and gives me a higher ownership pride compared to another brand which may offer a better VFM.. For eg., I’ll choose a Z650 RS over an Interceptor 650 even though Interceptor is a very good bike and it costs 1/3rd of Z here in India..
However, this perception that Harleys are bikes with “yesterday’s technology at tomorrow’s prices” made me choose a Kawasaki Vulcan S over a Street 750 3 years ago !!
The Kawi is also a superior motorcycle compared to the RE.
As it should be when you consider the price difference.
Can’t get over the fact that the Interceptor only costs 1/3 of the Z650RS in India.
Here in Denmark they’re almost the same price. The Kawasaki is maybe 5% more.
No wonder why I never see a Royal Enfield on the road.
@@MachoMadness69420 Agree Kawi is superior, but 3X price isn’t justified!
Enfields are made in India while Kawis are imported from Thailand as CKD units, so such a cost difference is understandable in India..
Perhaps Denmark has different duties for imports from different countries, so Enfields are as expensive as Kawis ?
@@sathishrao7926
Can’t argue with the Z650RS not being 3x the bike of an Interceptor.
Sadly, I suspect the relative high prices for Royal Enfields here in Denmark are more due to greed than import duties.
good for you the vulcan is the better bike for sure
@@ronaldlebowitz7409 Z650RS ain't a Vulcan.
U nailed it bro, keep on going after them 👌
Another great video, with excellent commentary. In an age filled with constant dispute, it’s a refreshing escape to view and hear great commentary on motorcycles. My favorite escape!
Thanks! I’m glad you enjoy something a bit different.
I've had 7 different bikes over my life time and if i had the means there would be 7 new ones in my garage. This is my first new Harley, it's a Road King and i have to admit it'd my favorite and this after i said i would never own a Harley. I was wrong, absolutely love my Harley.
Another great video I dig the background music 🎵
Thanks! I had to go with classical for the luxury.
@@DifferentSpokesTV yeah I thought It was hilarious!
Consumerism.
Capitalism.
Instant gratification.
Instagram.
Influencers.
Influence what and for whom?
A lot that is wrong with how the world has become in the 21st century.
Engineering?
Luxury vehicles?
The US has not made any of the above since pre WW ll.
Comparing similar costing motorcycles from HD and Ducati i cannot see where the money goes in a Harley.
The money is everywhere to be seen on a Ducati, and by looking at the spec sheet.
Night and Day.
Yet similar money.
Funny old world.
Innit.
I feel far more special on my Moto Guzzi than on any Duc or Harley 😃
Thank you for your non biased videos, very objective. Keep on your good work 👌
South Park destroyed Harley's for young people. They are embarrassing, would never ride one. That being said, you should ride what you enjoy.
It was destroyed long before South Park episode
Great video. I’ve never been a Harley guy,mainly because I’ve always been so turned off on the image surrounding them. But I was in a Harley dealer for the first time a few months ago looking at a Honda CRF 450L that someone had traded in. I walked through the showroom and sat on a few of the bikes. I’ll have to admit,I was VERY impressed by their overall quality. The fit and finish was superb! I felt like I was sitting on a Cadillac. I wasn’t expecting that feeling of such a premium machine! I didn’t buy a Harley,nor did I buy the Honda that I had came to look at. But I did buy a Honda CRF 300L Rally a few months later!
Interesting and as usual very well written and presented. Well done 👍
Harley-Davidson is indeed an anachronism struggling with ambivalent identities. Somehow- it has managed to be the outlaw and the establishment- ridden by cops and robbers alike. Great topic and interesting take on the subject.
Interesting observation
Thanks! Great point.
I think it's all marketing hype. Then again I don't care about status.
I have owned over 30 motorcycles in my life, almost all japanese. the bikes got no looks, no interest from anyone. Then I bought a Harley and on the TEST DRIVE I got thumbs up from guys on the street. I get looks everywhere I go. When you have a premium product, you get eyeballs and interest. The same thing happened when I rented a Tesla for a day last year. I took my teenage nephew and niece along. One guy yelled out "Tesla!" and we got many, many looks. Some people want the looks, I really don't care. It surprised me the first couple of times and then I realized, these are enthusiasts , they know and love the brands. The day after the Tesla ride I was walking with my nephew and pointed out a beautiful Subaru WRX. He said he wasn't really interested in cars...I said, "What?! You went apeshit for the Tesla, what do you mean you don't like cars??" He said he likes Tesla for the TECHNOLOGY. So all the design engineers, marketing departments, and CEO's better be paying attention to what these kids want...TECHNOLOGY. They had cell phones and ipads shoved in their hands when they were 2 years old. You're probably not going to get them to EVER take interest in a Harley. Although I came to love the brand, I'm gen X and I'm probably the last generation keeping Harley alive. The will age with me, downsize with me, and eventually die with me.
👍
people are just fools
I hope not, but I do see them continuing to shrink in the future.
I had a PC supplies company for 18 yrs. my son had his first PC at 2 yrs old. He had a cell phone at 5 and he owns 2 Tesla’s and wants to buy me one !! Technology can be a great thing, besides it’s not going away. Only thing going are us older people...
I've owned a 09 Kawi Ninja 600, 2 Sporties (07 883C & 08 1200C), 08 Aprilia Tuono 750, 13 Dyna Fat Bob, & now a 17 M8 Road King. I'm a blue-collar guy that saves up & pays cash for my bikes. As far as fit/finish 1=best-6=worst, the Kawi was 6th, the Sporties tied, the Aprilia & Dyna tied, RK 1st. HD really puts the time & energy into the Touring line. I say that after having worked on each bike quite a bit over the time I've owned them. Fit, finish, paint, & fasteners are just better on some brands (& even between separate model lines within individual companies) than others. I almost went with an Indian Springfield Dark Horse this year, but the fit & finish (stuff like noticeable seems on molded plastic parts) wasn't even close to a HD & the throttle-by-wire wasn't near as sorted either. I really liked the Indian, but it just wasn't worth it side by side with my RK. Someone has to be last. I'm just thankful to live in a time when just about any bike I buy will be reliable in general.
Hell yeah, once you`ve ridden a Harley you can`t unride it. This brand stays in your ride memory forever. I currently ride a 21 GSX, but never forget the Harley I rode back in the 80`s.
Harley does have a certain appeal. I enjoy my Triumph the most at the moment but that’s not to say that a Road King is not in my future. Pricing for the bike and the insurance is definitely a factor though. Whatever you ride, the main thing is that you love it! Ride on!
Aspirational brands are weird. I think they damage our perception of reality. But what do I know.
I own a 2020 Harley Street Bob. I love it, but Harley needs to do more to attract younger buyers. A naked it a minimum is needed. I hope to get a Ducati some day. Love their 796 Hyper Motard. I am a KTM guy also. Have a 2004 450EXC/supermoto. All bikes are fun, but Harley and Ducati are definitely the brands when you have more money than sense. I resemble that statement.
Good video man , I feel , even though I currently have a sportster, kawasaki is the one for function first then form . The vulcan line has been trolling hd for years , the w800 its blatant and hilarious towards the brits. Just thoughts from the a lower classman.
I went from a V-stom to a Multistrada and yes, much as I loved the Suzuki, the Ducati does make me feel just that little bit special
Huge difference, Suzuki`s are good, Multistrada`s are great. Ride safe.
Welcome to the big league. You went from taking the dorky girl with glasses at the prom to the tall, blonde superstar that just a look is enough to give you a woodie.
Re: Harley's "Image is that of the outlaw". Now in the early 1950's the "Wild Ones" movie set the image of big bike riders as unruly brooding misfits. The early real 'outlaw' clubs rode English and American bikes. Somewhere along the way the clubs decided to make owning an American bike a requirement. Outlaw merely meant they were not AMA clubs. Then came the prosecutorial war against the Hells Angels in California, in the 1960's making them larger than life.
While this was happening Harley-Davidson wanted to distance itself as far away from outlaw lifestyle as possible. Honda advertised meeting the "nicest people" on a Honda.
Let me say this about the outlaws and their bikes. They led the customizing trend, they built and rode the first choppers. Being shunned by the public and the factory did not bother them, they were not seeking approval. In my opinion Harley has designed the early Softail and Wideglide around the choppers built by the outlaws. On the other hand, Sonny Barger, iconic Hells Angel, has written that Harleys are junk, but "we are stuck with them".
Fast forward to today, and Harley has now embraced and promotes the outlaw image. They even offered a decal dedicated to the Sons of Anarchy with the Harley logo on it. Now the 'hedge fund managers', dentists, and general yuppiedom could pretend to be an outlaw, but really have no idea about that world.
The smug comments about Harley riders by non-riders as old guys who do not have a clue and enjoy disturbing their peace with loud bikes, abound with little evidence. How many open header sport bikes are out there?
There are no two Harleys exactly alike and no two Harley riders the same. The old school will fade, haters, seek solace in that.
I love them both. But I ride a '21 Road King Special because I'm a big guy and I fit on it better, and the fit and finish is second to none.
I ride a 2022 Royal Enfield GT 650 and a 2023 Ducati Diavel V4. I love both and both bikes attract a lot of attention. Both are a blast to ride.
I’m really enjoying your subject matter. Relevant and accurate. Ducati is a Premium brand for sure and the hype is compelling. “V4 Panigale is the fastest thing around a track” sounds believable doesn’t it? But it was the Yamaha R1 that won almost every championship worldwide last year. World Superbikes, AMA, British Superbikes, Australian Superbikes, South African Superbikes… the best Ducati could do was 3rd in SBK. Ducati haven’t won a world championship since 2011 but everyone still thinks they’re the best. That Premium Brand. You can’t beat it.
Good point about the conflict between being a premium brand and trying to appeal to a broad consumer base. My view is that if the likes of Honda made a cruiser with the same level of styling and attention to detail (and aversion to plastic) then I personally wouldn't care whether the brand is considered 'premium' or not. But the reason nobody's been able to beat HD at their own game is that the style and passion that goes into a harley isn't transferable/reproducible; despite the recent forays into new segments, a harley is still essentially an American product. It's that style and quality that I'm after - I'd actually get a kick out of going for a non-premium brand if it offered the same.
So true. I would definitely own a metric bike if they even tried to compete in the cruiser segment but they don't try at all. There's basically no metrics that could fit into the Harley softail cruiser category of bike. They just keep pumping out these small 900cc vulcans or 950 bolts or 1100 rebels while Harley is putting out 1750cc and above. Bring back big metrics like the Raider or the VTX or Vulcan 2000. Trust me young people will buy them. Big Metrics pulled outta the game way too soon I think. Give us an alternative to Harley
I swore I’d never set foot inside a HD showroom again after being totally ignored when I went to buy one after work wearing a collar and tie. Got the same treatment at 2 dealers in Sydney, so kiss my ass HD !!
I’m proud to have now owned and experienced a brand new Ducati Sport Tourer with a 996cc 4 valve per cylinder V2 that pushes around 125 hp. In the last few times I’ve ridden it I’ve been told it’s a lovely classic Ducati by younger 30 yr old guys! I don’t think I can afford a new bike as I need a car upgrade first. But I’d buy Ducati again for sure!
I’ve owned a duck. In fact I owned a Panigale. I also, at the same time, owned a fireblade and a bussa. I loved riding my duck, but I can honestly say that I didn’t feel special while riding or owning it. My sense of self worth is not tied to the objects I own.
Try looking at it in a different way. Excellent and exclusive, the reward to yourself for all your hard work. It's your trophy for your success. Not everybody can afford to walk at a Ducati dealer and get a Panigale. You however, worked hard, made all sacrifices to become a respectable and successful person and the Ducati can symbolize all that. Needless to say, the damn bike looks so gorgeous.
Here's another way to look at it. I have a BMW GS. It is more expensive that any of my Moto Guzzi and possibly more than my Aprilias. However, the BMW doesn't stir any emotions, it is blunt and muted, sanitized and lobotomized. Then, I ride the Moto Guzzi. Less power, less performance, less money. But it is beautiful, it has heritage and a soul, a mean sound and excellent manners.
It's NOT all about the price. There's a lot more to biking and a premium bike can deliver all that plus more.
@@tedmarakas2626 I feel extremely fortunate to have been able to buy my duck. Like I said, I loved riding it and it was and is a gorgeous bike. I’m perfectly fine that some people see their possessions as signs of success and/or self worth. I don’t. I’m a university professor. I feel a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment when my students graduate and go on to do amazing things. I feel a sense of accomplishment when they push themselves to go beyond what they thought they were capable of. I truly loved owning and riding my duck. But it NEVER gave me any sense of self worth. Was it a work of art on two wheels like only the Italians can build? For sure. Did it ride like a bat out of hell? Indeed. Did I feel special because I owned it? Not in the least. Every bike has a soul. Every bike has a unique personality. I’m very happy that I owned a Panigale. But I don’t measure self worth in terms of the objects I own or have owned. You don’t have to agree with me. You just have to accept that this is my opinion.
@@HarrisBinUAE No bashing, this is a conversation and people should respect others opinion. Cheers, ride carefully and if you're in NYC area lets take the 2 wheel beuties for a ride.
Admittedly I felt more special on my Triumph Street Twin than my current Yamaha XV950 Racer, however while Yamaha doesn't exude British classiness it is a far more personal machine. When I had my Triumph they used to call it "My Triumph" or "My Bonnie", but with my Yamaha they call it "My Bike", because unlike the the Street Twin it is a rare one of a kind bike, which to me makes it more special than owning a premium brand like Triumph or Harley Davidson. I prefer to be unique, not flashy. Besides despite only being a Yamaha is still manages to turn heads XD
Great video and thanks for going down the rabbit hole! A lot of information on premium to non. I guess in today's world what you pay for something it's a reflection of you. My opinion. If you feel or think someone will shame you on what you ride well,it's just wrong. I like seeing people happy and being proud of what they have. Hey,2 wheels is 2 wheels! And leave with this. Who is the smarter one? The one paying for a premium or the one that don't care? Hasta luego!
I'm having way more fun riding any of my old reliable Hondas, which cost less than either of those brands, for all of them.
I ride for me and for the fun.
Never been a sucker for the image or fashion game.
In over 50 years of riding motorbikes, and about 40 bikes, for me it was 50/50 the status of the brand and performance of the bike.
In some parts of my life it was leaning to status, and at other times it was more performance.
At the moment i still own a highly modified 107hp,162nm Dyna, but that will make way again for an Indian FTR, to fool around with again.
I loved to ride all my bikes for some reason.
I like HD Breakout a lot. So, I went to visit a local HD dealership and they wanted to charge me a lot over MSRP. So, I eventually bought a 1/12 scale model and I have become a happy owner now ever since.
I just traded my 2017 Fat Bob, 2018 Rebel 500, & 2009 R1 in on a 2022 Pan America Special. It’s one hell of a bike.
As a kid, I never liked motorcycles until one day, a guy pulled over in a Ducati Monster, I heard about this brand, from Matrix movies, from top gear , they way people were saying it, it was like a dream brand , a Ferrari of motorcycles , never heard its sound in person though, and on stock mufflers , that monster was just brutal , it demanded respect and attention, and man it was rewarding, at first glance it looked odd shaped, but when getting close and start to see details, curves, shapes.... it traps you. Later I got to see a sport one, 998, I had a flip phone with a camera, much like the first time I saw an Alfa Romeo 159, the 998 was moving my hand to reach for the phone and like a zombie take the picture :). Today I own a 848 first gen, I do ride it occasionally on mountain roads, its a blast... and I uncover it on winter just to look at it while I drink my coffee.... I look at it and smile, no reason behind , no memories rolling , just looking at it and i smile, i touch it and I get the satisfaction, you're mine... I can't believe you're mine, (in my country only 2 are for sale now and I never saw another one on the road) I will eventually put it in my living room during the winter, the bike looks amazing and guess what... I still don't like motorcycles generally (all the modern ones look like they came from a transformers movie or like they were drawn by a 10 yo kid) but this 848... and the Ducati brand , I absolutely love with all my heart!, the only reason I ride is Ducati.
I've ridden Honda, Yamaha, BMW, Ducati and Triumph. Riding any of them was fantastic and I have nothing negative to say about any of them. My sport bikes, Ducati and Triumph were completely opposite characteristically but both equally thrilling. My sport tourers, BMWs, were a joy with thousands of kms behind me on these bikes. My adventure bikes, BMW and Ducati both got me anywhere I wanted to go with no issues. The Ducati's powertrain won my heart over the BMW. The Yamaha and Hondas were early in my riding career so they were just runabouts but flawless and problem free. While riding, however, the Ducatis bring far more attention from other motorcycle enthusiasts than any of the others so I can't help to feel much more special riding those.
Yeah, I’ve ridden a few Ducatis and they are an experience.
I presently own three bikes: A Ducati, a Honda and a MZ (to those unfamiliar with MZ it's a 250 two-stroke built in the former East-Block) Made in huge numbers and all but a "premium" brand. A poor man's work horse. The Ducati draws the most attention. But the MZ gets people talking to me. I'm more approachable on the MZ I guess. I like all three bikes for different reasons but the (hopeless) MZ is the most fun to ride, with the Ducati a close second.
Had an MV Agusta Brutale for a couple years in my 20s. Yeah, it felt good when people took notice of it. Now that I'm in my 30s I'll gladly take less attention on my Ninja 1000 for creature comforts and reliability.
For what I do, they Ultra limited is for sure the best choice. When I decided to sell my fz09 and go cruiser I tried a lot of different brands then got a baby bagger Harley Switchback. Met my soon to be wife and we like to do a lot of 2up riding, which the switchback did well. But on the big tour bikes, I didnt care for the looks of the Star Venture or the transmission and radio of the Vaquero. Not to mention those cost as much or more as the Harley. So that left Goldwing (I used to have a GL1100) or a Harley bagger.
in my teens I fell in love with Moto Guzzi, but I couldn't afford any for a long time. I mainly rode Hondas, soulless bikes with good reliability but no character.
Someday I was able to buy one and I wouldn't want to swap it for any premium bike. Guzzi is certainly an exclusive brand, low numbers compared to BMW for example, but here in Germany it is not necessarily considered a premium brand. But I don't care about that. I ride my dream, no matter what the marketing wants to persuade the masses.
It’s not just a higher price. Compare a Honda Shadow to a Harley Heritage Classic. Very similar looking from a distance but up close you will see there’s no comparison. You get what you pay for.
I have owned three HD, now own a diavel. It's night and day, my HDs got passed by 400cc bikes. How sad is that. In the lowest hp setting my diavel is faster than HD. I'll never own another HD.
People always mention fit and finish of HD, I bought a brand new HD off the floor in 2018. I've never owned a bike that put oil over your boots as you rode it, especially a new one.
In North America, what you get with HD is the name. What you get with ducati is prestige and performance the world over.
Great video BTW.
Thought you was going to actually compare the two performance wise or the better brand to buy fr.
Being 69 & actually living the history with these MC brands. Sure differs from one that just research’s online then forms an opinion,. But WTF, if u use Harley’s name on videos, regardless of content, that’s likely what gets you the most hits. I vote for things you personally have experience with for your videos, cause we can all just read the internet
I ride a Kawasaki, but still look at Ducati with envy. I could care less about Harley though.
Same here.
I have two Harleys and have had a Honda VFR and id say any day the Honda is a better bike in every category. Dead reliable, good power, smooth engine and gearbox, to be honest there was not much to complain about that bike. Can i say the same about my Harleys? lol no but they have something that not many do, charisma! There is just something about them that makes me love them.
Saying that i have little interest in a new Harley. My new one is 22 years old and only Harley´s i really want are much older.
IMHO the only thing premium about these two brands is the price.
I think we can start by saying what isn’t premium. Premium isn’t cheap, it’s isn’t budget basement, and it isn’t mass produced like McDonalds burgers. A brand that sells lawn mowers, tractors and generators in the same dealership with their motorcycles isn’t a premium brand. A motorcycle that can’t sell their motorcycles independent from other brands in order to standout isn’t premium.
Branding and image has something to do with why people prefer premium brands but if you think people who are wealthy enough to buy premium products aren’t smart enough to determine value for their money then I don’t know what to tell you. The wealthy are rarely the ones being taken advantage of.
I love this video because It has been proven to me many times. I’ve owned and worked on Harleys and other motorcycles for for several years and the only bikes that even come close when it comes to fit and finish are Ducati’s and, yes, BMW too!
I have a Yamaha, I have a Harley, I enjoy Yamaha, I love Harley.
I have a Goldwing F6B (2014). It's a premium Honda but nowhere near as expensive as some other brands
I'm going to Velcro a laptop to the tin on my 1937 John Deere B, polish the seat bucket and exhaust stack until it hurts your eyes, and drive that PREMIUM puppy around my local tractor's and coffee.
No, Harley Davidson, you really need to do a lot more than this to become "premium".
Lmfao choked on my coffee
I don't know, I rode a few Harleys and have owned a ninja, and fj1100, and I have spent a lot of time particularly on a electra glide. First got the Ducati Monster because of the high revving twin with the desmo valves and realize how much fun they are. Then got the diavel and it is just a blast. I am less about status symbol and more about performance and enjoyment of the bike. I honestly give no f***** about people's perceptions of my bike.
I gave up my dreams of a Ducati when I popped my butt down on a KTM Super Duke 890. I’ve ridden a few Ducatis, but the 890 put a smile on my face in first gear… it’s raw and that was fun as hell. I almost wish they’d maybe back up their electronics a bit and just let it be a proper widow maker…
So, is KTM a ‘luxury brand’? I mean, it’s priced at what I paid for my bloody Gixxer awhile back. Luxury just makes me think I have to take care of it or every mistake is chipping down it’s resale value (bike never really feels like it’s ‘mine’, it’s mine until I sell it to afford the next bike). A reasonably priced bike, it’s more ‘let’s throw mileage at this until it dies!’
I just like things that are reasonably priced and work well.
7:10 as a guy who has 2 early 80ies Shovelhead Harleys, to be honest I look down on the current bikes... often catch myself that I have a condescending grin when walking through the dealership... Chinese parts assembled by American workers, designed by a hipster marketing team. Feeling more special on my Shovelheads is derived from riding a 45 year old bike and doing all the work on them myself
Rolex is the king of making obsolescence exclusive. They charge 300X the price of a watch that does the job better, and are extremely profitable. I think Harley is, and should, do the same thing. I'm nearly 50, I've been riding since I was in my early 30's, and I don't really have any tangible memory of HD being a "working man's" bike. Japanese cruisers have always been, to me, the "working man's" motorcycle. HD is following Rolex's plan, and I think it is the right move. They will sell far fewer motorcycles, but at a higher price. They have analyzed the market, and learned that their equilibrium price has shifted far to the right and up. It's what they need to do to survive and thrive.
Thanks for the comment. I think you’re right about the direction they’re taking. Can’t say I agree with it, but I’m not in charge.
I would pick Ducati over HD. If I had to get a HD it would be the Pan America.
I know Triumph doesn't have a continuous history but as a Brit I look at them the way a north American looks at HD. Thing is Triumph can put out a £22k Rocket 3 and a £7k Trident without being seen to dilute the brand image. I love HD, I would love to have one even though they make no sense in the rural north west of England but they're continuing to back themselves into a corner. In short it's hard to argue in favour of a £20k Harley who's headline feature is "nice paint" when that same 20 grand will get you an equilly premium Speed Triple RR with all the electronic gismos you can imagine, 180bhp, a new set of gear to go with it and some bloody nice paint.
I understand and respect what Harley-Davidson represents, with that being said, when you buy a Harley-Davidson you are paying extra for the (legend) not necessarily for the quality or premium. I have 2 Cruisers, both Yamahas I couldn't be happier, I have done thousands of miles cross-country and they've never let me down. but I say buy and ride whatever makes you happy 🤘🍻 cheers from South Florida🤘🍻
brilliant video, I don't think harley is premium at all. Their customer base is tough-looking, scruffy, old and crusty and as a brand they aren't interested in doing what Triumph have done for the younger crowd. If you look at the Distinguished gentlemans ride its a bunch of under 30 year olds riding modern, affordable, Triumph bikes in their best outfit. If you look at a harley ride, its typically older people, less well dressed and outdated looks like leather chaps and odd club patches of skulls and flames and other tacky materials. Some have true heritage like the Hells Angels who have brilliantly stood the test of time & kept their values strong which is really impressive. I have a BMW now and admittedly the crowd is older but I do feel like even BMW got the grips of what a premium image is
I try and judge a machine based on its performance and engineering and ignore the marketing. But the reality is that these companies have spent hundreds of millions on branding and marketing over the decades for a reason - it works!
To me, 13.9k USD doesn't sound that bad for a 107 inch cruiser with the fit and finish you just described. You have to know what you can afford or want to spend. Harley offers the whole range. What makes a bike premium to me is f & f, long maintenance intervals, long life, good resale, a dealer nearby no matter where you are. √√√√√. Having the sportiest bike made is not top priority for everyone. Harley will survive.
I like Harleys but i canˋt get over that outlaw biker image. Being extremely expensive here in Europe does not help either.
Me too. That’s why I just can’t get myself to buy one.
Interesting video, it does provoke some thoughts. To be perfectly honest, yes, I do feel better if I can own a premium brand. On the other hand, I realize that I like Harley Davidson for what it is, not because it is a premium brand. I kinda see it like the muscle cars of old days. Simple, build like a tool, last forever and simple to fix (relatively), makes a great sound and relatively affordable. Good value for the "cool" it brings.
Perhaps one day I'll be able to afford one (without financial consequences), but hopefully petrol engine is still a thing then.
Regarding Yamaha: Would I feel more exclusive to ride a XS 650 or XT 500 than HD or Ducati? Check!
I own a iron 1200, and while it is a beautiful motorcycle to look at, most of the time it is not as much fun as my prior drz400s, or Ducati monster 620.
Hedge Fund managers-outlaws. There’s a difference??
Ha!
Pretty much the same story here in the UK - Harleys are usually ridiculoulsly expensive and thus old man bikes. There is a small subset of hardcore Harley enthusiasts still, but they are a rare sight and that community seems pretty much impenetrable for the average person unless you have been around it for some time already (or join a legit biker gang).
I dunno, it's kinda hard to feel exclusive and special when every third bike you see is a Harley.
I’ve had several bikes over the years from a 2002 Yamaha c star I got new to a new Indian Spirit in 2003 (basically a Harley knockoff) to victory to indian and Harley
The Yamaha v star was a pretty sweet ride but now I have a 2009 Rocker C, 2014 Wide Glide and 2021 Street Glide
I can say that it’s doubtful I will go back to Indian
But there is something special about Harley
I’ve only been riding them since 2009 but they make you feel awesome and they always attract attention, at least mine do.
I don’t care about having the fastest bike, I just ride for the ride, but I do like having a few great looking bikes
Owned bikes 50cc to 1000cc and my 2 faves were my rg2500 gamma and push rod 350 enfield bullet, it's all about what the ride, look a some harley davidson owners and just think they are trying to hard
There is nothing wrong with enjoying finer things in life as long they are within your means.
I bought my first bike a year and half ago, an iron 883, because it was somewhat affordable and wasn’t a “street” model (no offense if you ride a street btw.) Now I feel like I need more power and it just isn’t available with an 883. So I go to “trade up” and get a bigger engine, more displacement, more power! What am I getting? A sportster 1200 of course! You think I’m just made out of money? It’s all I can afford, or am willing to afford anyway. I guess I could wait for the new sportster to come out but there’s something to be said for that old school, rumbling, no tech, Harley Davidson that is on its way out……………Hopefully.
Ducati is not only the name. It’s the design above all I would say. Those bikes look awesome.
Harley ? - well, one must be into cruisers to really like the look I guess. Or vintage bikes.
I think it’s both marketing hype and, there really is a difference with a Harley-Davidson/Ducati. I’ve owned many brands, and love them, but for different reasons.
I agree, HD is barking up the wrong tree, yet again 😐 ....
Maybe the new Sportster line will more affordable, for us mere mortals?
This premium marketing for motorcycles simply doesn't exists in the UK. You will likely never see an advertisement for ANY motorcycle brand outside of watching some top end pay-per-view motorcycle event or the Internet, and then you have to be LOOKING for it in the first place. Speaking from personal experience, if you have a love for motorcycles in the UK, it is something you have to personally apply yourself to and educate yourself on. You generally make your own mind up on what's important or 'premium' based purely on what you want out of a motorcycle. My wants and needs have changed over the years along with my tastes and my budget and my idea of premium. Bottom line is that it IS nice to ride a recognised brand, especially if it stands out against others. But ALL motorcycles are fun and thrilling in their own way, regardless of cost or reputation. I had as much fun ripping around feilds on an abandoned Honda Cub 50 I found as a kid in the 80's as I do going across country on my Road king.
I've had plenty of Harley riders compliment my 2019 Vulcan 900 Classic. a good paint job and design will go a long way, even on a bike less then 10 grand
Yes, HD is premium brand.👍
I own a BMW 3-series and a Honda VTX 1300. True, I'm comparing a car to a bike, but both get me attention. People like the looks of both vehicles and while I do like both of them, I can tell you the BMW is a bigger pain in the butt. It's a joy to drive, but it's also high-maintenance and expensive. Similarly, I have an iPod, but my phone is an Android. I paid a lot more for the iPod and while I do enjoy its 250 GB storage for music and iTunes is super useful, I do much prefer the utility and user-friendliness of my phone. So much so I wish off-brand MP3 players were still being made.
Whenever you ask a Harley owner why it is so expensive they tell you: it's a premium bike. You buy it and don't ask about price
I'm not super emotional about bikes. They are just tools. Love the sportsbike look though.
I ride and enjoy my Harley far more than my Honda… admittedly it’s bigger and more suited for the riding I now do but Honda just does not offer anything except the gold wing to suit my dreams and at almost 30k it costs more than most Harley’s.
I've had two Harleys, a Road King and a Fat Bob, never had a Ducati. The Harleys were fine bikes but they didn't make me "feel" any better than any other bike I've owned. Can say the same thing about the three BMWs I've had.
Guilty of falling into the Harley marketing gimmick. I own a Softail Slim but love the looks of a Kawasaki Vaquero. I just can't pull the trigger on one because somewhere in my head I feel like purchasing it would be going backwards even though in reality it's way more bike for less money.
I ride a Yamaha, and feel premium having $25k still in the bank that someone else would spend on one of those things from Milwaukee.
Hey, I'm old and still cool !! ...I think
I have a 04 xl 1200c and i feel a good feeling on my harley and i'm thinking look at me folks i'm on a harley..lol but i have a 88 honda gt 647 hawk and man when i get on that thing wow i;m on the fastest racer ever! and its what kind if mood am i in today makes me get on one or the other and if i don't need to carry stuff i'm on the hawk for sure..fly hawk fly!