Harley Davidson vs Indian Is Indian Catching Up?
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
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Thanks you for your comments! I do my best to keep up with them for the first few days after a video comes out, but due to the volume of comments on all of my videos, and to the general hustle and bustle of life, I must give up the fight after a while. If you are leaving a question four or more days after a video comes out I can't guarantee I'll see it, but perhaps one of my other viewers knows the answer and can help out. Thanks in advance to those who contribute and share their knowledge. Cheers and stay safe everyone!
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Harley can thank Indian for making them build a better motorcycle.
Not better engendered than Indian, just a better Harley.
Both are too expensive, and too big for the modern generation. Most of us young people in the 60's did not ride Harley's, it was the Honda 350, and possibly the Suzuki dirt bikes that dominated the market.
Yes, my first bike was a 1962, 125 Kawasaki, thanks to my dear father. I was 12 years old.
Now I’m 74, and tank a road trip every summer on my 2017 Indian
Roadmaster, that has almost 67 seasonal thousand miles on it!
Yep, I always joke that if not for Indian, Harley would still be building twin cams.
Indian has been around since before HD. Everyone bought an HD for the name. You have to buy what you enjoy not what others wanna see.
@@326th I think back on the bikes I had when I was young, tore the streets up with a Honda 175 at 16. I had much more fun with those inexpensive bikes of yesteryear. I am hoping to pick up my Hunter 350 Thursday probably won't be reliving my youth, but I am hoping to have some fun before my time comes, which is looking to be soon. Harley, and Indian better get some small bikes on the market or in 10 years they will be bankrupt.
I bought an Indian Chieftain in June 2021, extremely happy with it and herein the UK comes with a 5 year warranty, more tech and cheaper than the Harley equivalent at the time!
Yes, the MSRPs are close but real world prices are far apart in most dealerships.
In terms of brand, my perception of Indian is more 'Legendary."
Catching up in sales - yea some. Catching up in quality - already far surpassed HD - not even close. I've owned both and will ride nothing but Indian.
1 in 4 lol thata not catching up at all lol i thought it was way better than that. Quality well not sure but the indiand do look like japanes bikes to me with the trans primary and engine in one place. Just buy a japanese bike
The only way you can say that is if you ignore all the cheap material Indian uses.
I have to agree. I’m not loyal to any manufacturer and love my 2024 Street Glide but looking at the new 2024’s, think I might go Indian next. Harley is charging way more for a lot less quality and fit and finish than they produced before
Owned only two bikes in 30 yrs., both Harley-Davidsons. Last Tuesday I ordered first new vehicle I've bought in 20 yrs. Indian Scout 101.
@@richardv1588 why? Something new?
Knowing what I know about the local MoFoCo boutique, I avoided them from an overwhelming sense of moral repugnance. I bought an Indian from a multi-brand dealership, and have no regrets. I’m seeing and hearing more and more Indians on the streets and highways of central Saskatchewan. But I believe Indian’s re-emergence has been good for the MoFoCo-competition keeps you “on your game.”
One thing not mentioned sure Harley has a bigger displacement. But Indian’s engines make more power based of their smaller wider cylinders. Makes the engine smoother the 111 thunderstroke was in my opinion more responsive than the M8
Agreed! I had a Street Glude Special with a 114 staged 2 and my 111 is every bit as fast! I sold my HD a week later. The Indian rides much smoother and responsive, has more amenities and is cheaper to maintain. I also haven’t needed to spend thousands on upgrades to make it what I wanted. I literally added a heel shifter and that’s all. I spent thousands on the HD and was never satisfied. Nothing I did made the M8 sound like I wanted! The Indian had slip one. and has the perfect deep rumble I was looking for.
Indian has matched and surpassed HD IMHO. Indian beats HD in design, and I think Indian has carefully crafted their pricing to be super competitive by making directly competitive models for every bike HD has, except possibly the Pan America, but the Indian FTR is right their because most ADV bikes just sit and pose, never seeing any dirt roads. Great video!
The Pan America is a failure prone piece of shlt
Thanks! An FTR 1200 Adventure with some wind protection would be a great bike though. I think it would sell even if it was basically a sport tourer.
Zero regrets for my 23 Chieftain 116...
I love riding my 2016 Indian Roadmaster. I removed the large luggage rack and front lower fairings. I replaced the original Roadmaster seat with the Ultimate Seats solo and passenger seats, along with the Ultimate Seats backrest for each seat. I added a high-flow air cleaner and the 4" Rinehart slip-ons which bring out the lovely low-end rumble of the 111 cubic inch (1811cc) Thunderstroke engine. The engine is much more responsive and gets 8mpg better gas milage as well. This weekend I am having Clearwater Lights install their Darla Road lights with yellow lenses to the front forks. I also replaced the stock tail lights with red LED lights that rapidly flash when I use the front or back brake... this bike highly visible from both the front and backsides. I wish I could attach a photo of my Indian for you to see. It is a work of art. Perhaps I should go into motorcycle design, because you wouldn't know that this is a Roadster at this point. Heads turn wherever I go on this bike. Competition is a good thing, as you say.
Indian was never really that far behind. Polaris has been making Victory motorcycles for a while. Same bulky, chromy, cruiser bike setup. They were basically an American cruiser with the reliability of a metric. So just pivot that into being more refined. Not a hard move. Harley-Davidson will always be a t-shirt company by Indian may pass them in motorcycles. I ride Yamahas. No dog in the fight
All my T-shirts are solid color, mostly white, and sold in packages of six at Walmart, or once upon a time K-Mart. When I rode with a group of guys in the Keys we used to make fun of yuppies with branded clothing, what a bunch of tools.
Former coworker rode a Victory Cross Country, with a few aftermarket bits (exhaust, this and that). Just the right size, fast, sounds incredible, reliable as a stone axe.
@@walkingwolf8072 People like you are rare why am. And you wouldn't get served in my local H-D dealership unless you were actually ON your bike.
Yep, same here. I'd buy either one if I room for a cruiser and time to ride it.
The new Scouts are a game changer in my eyes. Makes me wish the Sportsters evolved in that direction of having options and modernity all wrapped in the v-twin package.
After spending a season on a Suzuki Savage 650, my 21 year old son just bought a brand new Indian Scout Bobber. Which in so many ways reminds me of my own 1st bike which was a 1983 Honda Nighthawk 650. For me back then, and for him today, both of our choices checked off all the boxes.
Not my type of bike but if I was given one I'd prefer the Indian. I don't want or have to buy a H-D wardrobe, boots gloves, tattoos etc. to be part of a "culture".
You don't have to buy any of that stuff. I've owned Harleys for over 20 years, got my first piece of harley apparel just a month ago.
I give props to Indian for still making a completely air cooled engine..no rad of any kind..completely air cooled engine always looks better, ..that said Harley did a good job on their oil cooler keeping it slim and pretty inconspicuous between the frame rails. Water cooled bikes don't interest me in the least.
If I was buying a new big bike today it might be the Heritage.
I used to own a Harley but avoided most of the logos. I got two free t-shirts when I bought the bike but managed to stay Harley tattoo free :)
If you have to go and buy a wardrobe you obviously have no clue of what this is all about.🤡
I don't have any particular loyalty to brands, other than the value they present and represent. If that value plummets or becomes a bully in markets, I hope the brands get whats coming to them. If Harley dies, so what. All the better opportunity for an old brand or a entirely new brand to start up in the USA market. Seems anyone that has attempted, gets bought by Harley Davidson and shelved/sold, or else imported brands that offer a ton more value and reliability end up getting big bully HD changing government rules to stifle their ambitions. Meanwhile, HD doesn't do anything to change their image, their hardware, their market, their prices.
So tired of this hogwash.
The biggest mistake H-D ever made was not buying the Indian name in the 80's and burying it, now, 40 years later Indian is burying H-D.😊
That's easy, between Harley and Indian I'd go with Honda every time. I just don't like cruisers.
Honda makes some nice cruisers.
@@smeghead765 I wish Honda put the 1100 twin into a naked but I guess it would overlap too much with the CB 1000 four. I would like cruiser power delivery with the ergonomics of a naked, at the cost of a Honda instead of a Triumph. GSX800S? Not quite, add retro styling to the list. XSR900 maybe.
Yamaha for me :)
I'm sure glad Honda felt differently with their incredible history of customs/cruisers/choppers with the various iterations of the Shadow, the Magna, VTX and my own ride, the Valkyrie!
I dunno... I'm not sure what could replace my 2007 Roadliner. It rides as wonderfully the day I got it. Never ridden another bike. I guess my son or daughter will lead my hearse and then they'll pass it along when their time comes...
H-D or Indian... The bottom line is that with the competition between the two, we the consumers are the real winners. Both brands will push the other to up their game.
I’ll stick with my Shovelhead.
Ya welcome to it.
I have both. Shovelhead for the old school shorter rides and my chief for my modern long hauls
Your knowledge about the motorcycle industry is indescribable, great video 👍
Thanks!
As a European rider (in Spain), I wouldn't touch a Hardly Ableson with a ten foot bargepole. The only H-D dealer near me is absolutely dreadful, if you're not already covered in H-D merch. they're simply not interested.On one occasion the staff left me for over 40 minutes without bothering to say a word to me.
OTOH the local soles Indian dealer was absolutely brilliant. The owner was about to shut up shop for lunch but stayed open to talk my OH and I through the range. He must have spent a good half hour of his lunch break on us. In the end we didn't end up buying (I really like the FTR and still might, and the Scout very nearly convinced the OH), but I have recommended them to multiple riders.
I haven't a clue why you think HD is better on quality. because my experiences of them have left me underwhelmed. My SIL's dad has an HD and it just doesn't seem to be very well put together. The Indians I've seen seem to be so solid that they feel like they're made of granite.
But I keep coming back to that dealer experience. I was truly appalled.
Oh, and WTF is the point of an "All American bike" if ithey're not all made in the USA? Honestly, I'm completely uninterested in where my bike was made, but when your entire image is based on that slogan, shipping production out of the USA, even if it is only for a few models, does nothing whatsoever for that image.
I'm no cruiser rider, but I could even be persuaded, given the right circs, to get a cruiser, it just won't ever be an HD.
Same thing happened to a friend of mine. 2 years ago, we went in to see what they had on the floor ( my friend had 10,000 down and excellent credit) and while looking at the bikes a guy came over and said " what do ya need" My friend started to ask about a test ride and the guy said " ride it after you buy it" and left. We left and the next day, my friend bought a new Indian. The Indian dealer literally had the sale handed to him by the HD dealer.
I have been to two Indian dealerships. They are similar to every other MC dealership - nice atmosphere that is similar to going to a store. You can walk around and look at things without anyone bothering you. When I have pulled up to an HD dealership though, the sales team jumps me before I can get off my bike or get out of my car. HD has high pressure BS tactics and they are waaaaaaaay over priced. Not only does HD start at stupid prices, they also hit you with crazy "service charges". HD will charge you for breathing their air in the dealership. It's a freaking cult - no right minded adult would fall for the HD BS.
And that's exactly what will be their demise if they don't shape up.
Thanks for the great video, as always. ☺️
Thanks again!
Great comparison!
Thanks!
Good comparison on many dimensions. Thanks. I personally most likely would stay with H-D but not out of any sense of loyalty. I just most like their looks, feel, and sound. But the number of H-D models that I like has significantly diminished in recent years. My favorite models have been getting axed to a point where I now would almost certainly have to buy a H-D of my choice in the used market. But that's OK; the used market has real advantages, not the least being not having to step foot inside H-D dealerships - which I've never been a fan of (to say the least !). But if I were a younger motorcycle rider, my real concern would be the elimination of internal combustion engines in the not-too-distant future. That, for me, would be (will be?) the end of my motorcycle riding days. Heck, I can't even get on board - uh, no pun intended - with water-cooled engines, let alone electric ones !
I agree.
Good points. We'll see if ICE go extinct. I'n not super convinced that this will not be at least partially rolled back for a while. I know what you mean about cutting models though. I'd look for a standard Road King nowadays.
The ironic thing is that H-D has arguably engineered and produced the most cutting edge full size electric motorcycle with the Live Wire!
@@nelsonphilip4520 It should serve them well in fully converting to electric. I just won't be going along for the ride. LOL !
I've owned a couple Harleys, along with a kawasaki and a Honda, and now ride a victory. People are stuck on the name harley, and those same people cry that Indian is just a marketing name. I personally won't buy another harley most likely ever, other than getting back my old bike when my father quits riding. My victory on the other hand is an impressive machine, and so much more reliable than any harley I've owned or friends have owned. The Indian challenger/ pursuit were supposed to be the next victory bikes, and are light years beyond the Harleys. Saying harley got a point because they have more cubic inches is selling your viewers short I think. The Indian still outperforms the harley, especially in handling, and does so at a much cheaper price point.
The only sorta interesting harley right now is the panamerica, but it's REALLY ugly, especially on the left side like the sportsters that share the engine. The panamerica also doesn't really compete in its own segment well, and is getting destroyed by the other large adventure bikes on the market. Couple that with the obscene price tag and the fact that Harleys dwindling followers hate it, and it doesn't appear to be long for this world.
My next bike is more likely to be a triumph or Japanese brand. The maintenance costs will likely keep me out of a bmw bike, especially since the closest bmw dealer is the harley dealer who are simultaneously expensive, condescending, and really bad at servicing bikes.
I realize that the Challenger is still more than competitive engine-wise with the 117, but the 117 is close rather than being blown out. I'd take a 117 Road Glide over a Challenger right now because the bike is better looking and a bit more modern, even if it is slightly slower.
Be careful what you wish for.The Harley Street 500 was a pretty big seller here in Australia, as it was the only Harley beginners could legally ride due to our restrictions for new riders. But now they can't seem to give away the new X350 & x500, even with big discounts & 100% trade in being offered 3 months after they launched. You can literally bring one of these bikes back after a year & get 100% of the purchase price as the trade in value against a new Harley. Yet Triumph can't seem to keep their new 400's in stock because they sell out so fast.
As an ex-harley rider and riding adventure bikes exclusively for the past 12 years, I may not ride a cruiser again but I have a soft spot for Harleys and no matter what, every other cruiser seems like a bad copy of Harley to me. They make the most beautiful motorcycles in my opinion. I would love to have a Street bob or a Sport Glide just to look at and ride it some times. Indian bikes just don't cut it for me. It's Harley or nothing despite all the new policies from the MoCo recently.
You failed to mention that the Chiefs have so much more software than the softails, that infotainment screen is gorgeous and has built in music and GPS.
The softail has a basic gauge
Yeah for those of us who want a motorcycle, not a computer
Love those Indian motorcycles❣️
They just keep getting better and better👍
Unless they build a competitive bike to the CT 125, or the RE they are doomed. Inflation as it is only rich people will be able to afford an Indian in the future. There is a reason RE is dominating the market world wide. There is a reason that Groms are so popular.
Tell me isn’t expensive!
Cars, pick up trucks, boats, planes, quad runners, snowmobiles, wave runners, bicycles, etc, etc.
The good thing is one can always by used.
@@walkingwolf8072the kind of people buying Harley’s and Indians aren’t buying Royal Enfields, who often want a cheaper Bonneville. Even buyers of the Super Meteor 650 likely considered the Rebel 500 as an alternative, not a Nightster or Sportster S, though in countries that will get the Harley Davidson X350 and X500 (like Australia), those buyers might have to make a choice if they want a modern cruiser or the Indian chrome
@@michaelschmitzerle2587 Certain bikes are hard to find used, CT125 is one of them. As far as expense a bike that gets 100+ mpg is going to safe a lot of money. When I was young we rode motorcycles because they were less expensive. We rode them to school, to work, to church, they were much more than a toy.
Yes they do.
If I were shopping this segment, Indian would be my choice, growing company vs dying company, and the culture is better IMO.
I wouldn't say Indian is growing. In the past 2 years, their sales have fallen from 36k to under 30k
Indian’s not a company lol. It’s just Polaris. They’ll kill it just as fast as Victory.
That's a good point. Buy a bike for the community of the future instead of the past.
I feel that a resurgent & vibrant H-D has been far and away very beneficial to all of motorcycledom. It's because of Harley's success that Polaris went all in on the Indian brand & heritage. I also believe that this is true for Triumph as well. Even BMW wants to emulate H-D with their own heritage models and catalog of farkle accessories.
@@HDR20 That's a troubling trend.
Riding other brands than H-D, makes one missing out on some customers. Those customers I don't want to be associated with. Had Harley's for 20 years, I know. If I would go back to cruiser style bikes it would be an Indian. Or maybe that chinese brand that makes the Sportster look-a-like! Looks so good!
As an owner of 2 Yamahas Harley Davidson, 2 Victorys, and now a 2023 Indian Roadmaster. By far is the most comfortable exciting easy to maintain motorcycle I've ever owned, with Yamaha and Victory a very close second. My suggestion is if you haven’t rode a Indian, at least give it a try. A very strong and fast motorcycle .
I have an old Harley sportster 1200 that I love riding, but when I am in the market for another bike, the Indian chief would definitely have some consideration. On a sidenote, Harley has just gotten a little boring and there’s nothing new than increasing the engine size.
I'm right there with you. I love the simplicity of my Sportster 1200 and really enjoy riding it. My back may dictate that I move on from it. I've looked at the Street Bob and Softtail Standard. I love the looks of those bikes. However, I was looking at ADV and dual sport bikes across the street for the H-D dealer and walked through the Indian area. They are making gorgeous bikes. Indian's offerings seem to be better optioned for the money.
Yeah, bold new colours every year doesn't cut it.
I have watched Polaris learning with Victory and improving with Indian. I believe they still use some of the Victory manufacture in making the Indian.
People still remember Polaris stop producing Victory. Many owners were not happy as they lost value of their bikes.
As for Victory loosing value., it depends on who you're talking to. Some bike enthusiasts who know Victory's track record would buy another (used of course) because of its quality issues vs the so called dollar$ value.
Nice video keep up the good work
I am European and live in Dublin, Ireland. I am not sure about Indian, but what I'm sure of is never again H-D. H-D service is poor to say the least. I thought there was an issue with the Dublin dealer, which there is, but I found out H-D does not even care about the European market, we are just breadcrumbs for them. Spare parts unavailable at the Belgian warehouse can take several months to be sent from USA. If Indian can provide a decent service in Europe, they can easily take on the market.
Long live Indian!!!
Fantastic video and comparison. :)
Thank you very much!
Very happy riding my rice burner!! a Honda NT1100
I have owned multiple bikes-Ducati, Suzuki, Honda, Indian and Harley Davidson. The best purchase was the Ducati but parts and service were outrageous. Indian dealership fees were absurd and almost like Harley Davidson. Indian service was less than Harley Davidson but there are fewer dealerships which can be a problem on long trips. Fees suck but I just purchased the bike that I liked and I try to do the basic service myself..
Have had 4 Harleys and am on my 3rd Indian. I am very tempted to get rid of my Springfield Dark Horse in favor of something smaller, maybe a Chief or possibly the new Scout in some variant, Maybe the Super Scout or the amazingly beautiful 101.
Yep, it used to be that bigger was better with regards to cruisers, but lately that might be turning around.
My last bike was Duke 200. I went to see if kids would be interested in 50cc scooter. They weren't. Baby Duke had beautiful orange wheels that caught my eye and $4.5k price tag on the road. I figured I would ride it for a lil bit. It is easier to pull out of garage than 600lbs Super Tenere so, it gets more ride time around neighborhood.
I prefer the Challengers looks to the Road Glide. Street Glide vs Chieftain is a tie.
Which is why I got a new to me R18c. Purchased with no test ride but I am not disappointed and I see why big full sized cruisers are a thing.
My victory 106 in flawless great engines.
At least Harley has a challenger to push them.
Indian with the colors. I wonder if Indian adds $350 extra for white, $450 extra for red, and $550 extra for blue. Like Harley does. If you don't want the Harley in "Billiard Grey".
I don't know, but when I look to harleys with my artistic eye, I find them looking premium. While Indians have overall a great line, the individual parts look to me somewhat shallow.
This is why I like the royal enfield classic 350 so much. It is the only manufactorer that gives a premium look to a small capacity motorcycle.
Your artistic eye
Get to an optometrist
You made a pretty big step comparing HD and Indian to a RE 350. Not saying the RE is a bad bike, but just a very different size and purpose. IMHO
Yeah, up close Harleys have that attention to detail. However, that seems to be lacking on some of the lower cost models like the Softail Standard.
@@DifferentSpokesTV Yes, also on the new nightsers, although I didn't see one up close.
@@ccrider8483 It is how an artist thinks, ;), by weird associations.
I like motorbikes. The tribalism and snobism in bike culture makes me sad.😟
Interesting comparison. I purchased a 2021 Sportster S because the Scout had not been updated since 2016. Two years makes a difference. If I were buying today I would choose the Scout 101. The styling is better, the aftermarket is better and the model is the highest seller in their line up so would likely see more longterm support. The Sportster S makes more power by about 10%, even over the new 1250cc 101's. In 2021, the Sportster S made sense. It does not make sense today. If HD redesigned the seat and rear railing, taking the mudguards from plastic to steel and making it more heritage looking, it would be the better bike with little effort. The win here is with the new Scout line-up.
The more I look at American cruisers, the more I thank Royal Enfield for existing! Theg make the bikes I want at a price I can afford. Harley lost me when they axed the Sportster. And I never cared for Indian.
Recently test drove both brands. Low rider S and a sport chief. Me and a friend got one of each and we took them out for about 2 hours. Both dealers in my area are across the street. Honestly I liked both in the end but I’ll explain why I made my choice. I thought the low rider w/117 was going to walk all over the Indian. Not the case and the Harley dealer mechanic told me why. The torque is almost the same but Indian comes in at lower rpm. The Harley does catch up though. But what sold me was how much more I got with the Indian. Better brakes better suspension better service and well known reliability of the engines. Also the finish and styling of the bike. Harley has one badge on the tank. Indian has it everywhere. If you don’t know then you have never test drove one. I’m not going to put Harley down because if the M8 117 is determined to be reliable I will purchase a low rider in the next couple years.
I'm not a brand loyal motorcycle rider. I have a H-D Sportster 1200 and it appears that it will be my last H-D. I was looking at ADV and dual sport bikes at the Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki/KTM/Indain/Triumph/Moto Guzzi/Aprilia/Can Am dealer across the street from the H-D dealer. I never really considered an Indian until I saw one up close. They seem to be a better value than an equivalent H-D. If I replace my Sportster, I'd definitely consider an Indian. As for ADV bikes, I can't understand why anybody would buy anything other than a Japanese motorcycle. An Africa Twin is a way better motorcycle than a Dirt Glide (Pan-American), especially when you consider money. I'm leaning toward a V-Strom 800DE, Tenere 700, Tuareg 660, or Transalp 750 to replace my Kawasaki Versys-x 300. I doubt H-D or Indian can build anything close to fitting in that market segment.
Yep, the ADV market is definitely competitive with more bikes coming out soon. You might want to wait for a Versys 500. I have a feeling we might one soon.
@@DifferentSpokesTV I would definitely be interested in a Versys 500 IF it were more offroad capable than my V-x 300. I'd also hope the engine wouldn't be so high winding as the V-x 300's. 70 mph or above on my bike is annoying. Another bike I'd consider is an RE Himalayan 452.
With the new Scout lineup which I think looks far better than the new Sportsters, Indian is kicking Harley’s ass in the smaller cruiser market. I’d buy a Scout before a Sportster. Heavyweight cruisers and touring, it’s still Harley’s game. The Challenger is the only heavy cruiser/tourer that has anything over a Harley especially with Harley’s new SG and RG. And anyone who thinks Harley’s are any less reliable hasn’t owned one or just has not done research. Those folks probably think Harley’s still leak oil.
This must be an Indian sponsored video because in my neck of the woods it's just the opposite; heck we had an Indian dealership here in town and they couldn't even sell the things. Go anywhere and for every 10 Harley's you see, you might see one Indian if that. This is just what I have seen.
If that’s what you alone have seen then it must be 100% true then….
@callumsmith338
Lol, just giving my reasons like the original poster is doing. And dude, I'm not alone on this, go out and look for yourself.👍
Ride what you want and who cares what others think. 2 wheels is 2 wheels. We all share a passion for the rode! Hasta luego!
I have a feeling people are getting fed up with the harley dealers.
NHTSA data base shows which brands and models that have recalls as well as complaints. The consumer report way back when wasn't very good in my opinion. Asking owners if they had major repair in the last couple years without defining what a major repair is leaves that point subjective.
BMW owners might classify an issue a major problem where a Yamaha owner might see the same issue as minor.
Both are in trouble, young people in this age are realizing that a name, and big is not the ideal motorcycle. There are cars that get better mileage than a Harley, or Indian, and cost about the same. Many of us in the sixties rode motorcycles because they were affordable, as well as fun. The Honda CB 350 dominated the city where I lived, the fact there are very few CT 125 being sold used is a testament to idea that bigger, fancier is not always better. I myself am dropping from an 800 pound motorcycle to RE Hunter because of my health. The only market H and I have left is the outlaw biker.
Their market is fat balding middle aged or older posers wanting to play biker
Or the dentists.
Until you're a Harley Davidson owner.You'll never understand all the perks of own and a harley davidson. For example, Harley Davidson has an ESP, which is an extended service plan warranty, with a fifty dollar deductible. This warranty is good at any dealer in the United States, Canada, or Mexico. After a long day of riding you can pull into any harley davidson dealership and they will check out your bike for free and make sure that everything's okay. And tell you the safest place to stay for the night and a good place to eat. And anything else that might be important that you should know.
Yeah, I don't need to play biker, wear stupid leather butt buddy outfits, or stop at stupid dealerships to have a broken down slow piece of shlt Harley repaired.
Thanks for the good point. That is a good perk and is worth something. It wouldn't be the deciding factor with me though.
@DifferentSpokesTV I feel like it's a deciding factor for me. You can't just look for the cheapest price and call it a good deal. In order for it to be a good deal. it has to be what i'm getting versus what i'm spending. Harley Davidson
Is a serious commitment and comes with a serious cost. It's not for a fair weather rider. In my opinion, it is for a person who rides all the time. In my case, I ride year around.
This year Harley will be reversing their sales slide because of the new touring models
.
Whenever I watch these “vs” vids they always say the same thing…Indian is catching up and will soon surpass. Well I live in motorcycle country and spotting a Polaris…I mean Indian on the road is like spotting a rare lizard only found in the Amazon jungle or something. There are none on the road even though there are 2 exclusive Indian dealerships in the metro area. There are 8 HD dealers in the same region. Indian baggers don’t look as good and are basically Harley clones and the price difference is negligible. Reliability is not an issue either even tho internet commandos will tell you otherwise. So I’ll choose HD all day long but will never judge anyone based on what they ride, and I wave to everyone. So buy what you like and ride free. ✌️
Reliability is not an issue? Harley knows the posers who buy their pieces of shlt, will ride them 2k miles a year to a bar or trailer them to Sturgis.
Harley makes trash for fools who wear leather butt buddy village people outfits
That means you
Thanks for the comment. You also have to consider that there are more Harleys on the road because a lot of the old bikes from 20 years ago might still be riding around. Indian basically didn't exist then so you won't see any old Indians. In terms of new bike sales the last few years the gap has been closing.
Indian is not subsidiary. Its recycle brand name at the mercy of Polaris bean counters. I love what they’re doing, but the business structure is not in any way comparable to HD.
That's the point I've been trying to make... We have already seen how this pans out with victory. Victory was a solid bike that Polaris just chucked to the curb. Why toss out something unique in favor for a name plate?
Harley’s business structure is nothing to write home about..
@@callumsmith338 whats the stock symbol for Indian Motorcycle?
It is very different but they seem to be serious about building the brand so that's cool with me. A lot of people are still angry about Victory and I get why. The prices of those bikes tanked after they got axed.
@@cjstemple321 Wasn't Buell owned by H-D at one time?
Buying new, go Indian. Buying used, go Harley. Avoid Harley dealerships, they are high on their own supply.
Harley is pricing themselves out of their own market.this is why beartooth harley davidson in billings also sell Mahindra rotors and royal enfield motorcycles.
a low milage used scout 60 just may be my new purchase
Is there a Harley dealership near GP bikes?
IF, and I repeat... IF I were in the market for a new bike..... it would be the Springfield. Why?? you ask?? Well, simple, it's got the 'Vintage' look but with better security for items being carried. The Vintage has leather bags (no way to lock up stuff). The Springfield, essentially the same bike as Vintage, does allow your stuff to lock up securely. BTW my present bike is a 2014 Indian Vintage. Right now I'm not in the mood to spend on new. My Vintage suits me for the present tyme. .
Saying Harley is ahead in the engine department simply because they are larger is plain stupid, Harley still don’t have a engine to tame the 108 power plus, & the 116 thunder stroke holds their own.
Indian= 50 years off. Ownership passed around.
You're forgetting one under fact about Indian all the victory Riders we're shafted by Polaris forcing them to go to Harley and losing a big share of the market
I still own and ride my 2003 Victory TC, it is parked beside my 2021 Indian Roadmaster. Polaris has been forcing H-D to make better bikes for 24 years, not sure H-D will survive long enough to surpass Indian in anything but marketing.
A very weighty subject to cover in this video. Overall there is no single characteristic or metric to qualify a "win". However, the argument that stiff competition forces innovation rings true here. Indian's slow but relentless gains in the premium bagger marketplace are noticed by HD. The benefit to customers of either brand are obvious lately. The biggest risk to both Indian and HD is the emergence of a third competitor (can somebody say Honda?) - who determines that the premium v-twin bagger market is one worth investing in. At the moment, a gold wing isn't an option for a rider who wants the simplicity and feel of an "American V-twin" bagger. But there is little debate in the motorcycling community that Wing Owners roll more miles per year than the average Indian or Harley rider. Time will tell but for now let's hope that the HD vs Indian arms race continues. It benefits riders of both brands. A quick note on both brands lower priced models as it seems that Indian has identified a weak point for HD in the softail lineup. The new Scout line will force some serious innovation (and lower pricing) at HD to revamp and extend their Softail and Entry Level Bagger (Road King?) offerings. Lastly, the emergence of complexity to service the newest HD's (anyone try changing out a new softail battery lately?) will lead to a greater demand for dealer services - simply put, sell fewer but more complex machines and you can replace the lost margins from fewer sales at dealers with greater service revenue (or at least that is the theory). Thanks for the insightful and thought provoking video.
Great points! The Japanese brands have been trying to muscle in on the V-Twin market for as long as I remember, but those bikes have never quite caught on. I used to really like the old Honda Shadow Aero 1100 but it never made a dent in Harley sales.
Honda Silver Wing was a transverse mounted (ala Moto Guzzi) fully faired and bagged V-Twin based on the CX 500 platform years ago. If Honda wants to play in the bagger space they should start by revisiting that bike maybe at 900 - 1000 Cc. Today they are collector items.
Great video. In our little riding group, I ride my Low Rider S right beside an Indian Sport Chief. We call the bikes bastard sisters and have a ton of fun together :) I like both brands.
Yep, direct competitors going head to head. I like the LR better than the Sport Chief personally. I love the look of the Chief, but put that quarter fairing on it and something looks off. I'd prefer a windshield but I'm from the 90's.
I also live in Toronto. Not close, as many Indians to harleys..
just think Sturgis was started by Indian. suspension and engine heat are things a rider has to deal with.
FTX if I were to buy from either brand. If Harley came out with the Bronx, I'd buy that. I don't do cruisers.
I’m was a lifelong HD guy. I’ve owned a scout, a Chief and an FTR. I’m sticking with the tribe at this point.
I have to disagree with you on two points you brought up. First one service I don’t know if there’s a price difference between Canada and the United States but my local Harley dealer compared to my local Indian dealer is night and day. The Indian dealer charges $10 more an hour for their labor rate and if you have to pick up the bike, they charge you a ridiculous amount of money to pick it up whereas Harley does it for free.
As for the cost comparison compare the Springfield and the road king the road King is much cheaper.
No doubt at all That both Companies are manufacturing excellent Motorcycles, However I have always been a very strong Harley Davidson motorcycles fan!!!, and nothing it's gonna make me change my mind about it, Simply because the motorcycle I like and love The Best no doubt keep being the Amazing Harley Davidson motorcycles which is and will always be My favorite Motorcycle, So no doubt at all The Motorcycle I love The most is The Spectacular and Unique Harley Davidson ❤️!!!, Thanks for sharing 👍!!!
Thanks for the comment!
Honestly, I thought Indian would beat H-D to the ADV market and I was prepared to buy an Indian FTR derived ADV. Sadly, Indian dragged their heels. I would still seriously consider it having ridden the FTR.
I had the Road King 107 and loved it. I'd still have it if I hadn't taken a Pan Am for a test ride. Living in the Appalachian foothills on steep gravel roads made the Pan Am the perfect bike. Oh, and it's the best suspension I've ever had on any bike, try one in a custom mode with the suspension setting at "comfort", luxury car smooth!
Pan America is an overweight pig of a bike
Yep, long travel ADV suspension is a joy on the rough roads.
Heritage can be both a prestige and baggage. If you have an old brand that either didn't innovate or worse regress then you only bring shame to your -ancestors- predecessors. Heritage is NOT a get out of jail card.
Excellent point. I'll probably steal it for a future video if that's okay.
@@DifferentSpokesTV I'd be happy to watch it!
Indian made by Polaris, meh! Nice bike but a Harley is a Harley all others that HATE on the Harley brand is due most likely because they don't have one, never owned one, or can't afford one. I had an Indian Chieftain Dark Horse which is a copy of the HD Street Glide, nice bike but I went back to Harley. You can't go wrong with either brand or whatever brand you ride as long as you're on two wheels~
if Indian does the New Indian Colt is a Challenger motor in the chief lineup... look out HD Breakout.
Polaris will stop making motorcycles called Indian in less than 5 years.
i have 1 of each. scout and streetglide... i like them both...ive never been to a "good" harley dealer. pushy sales people expensive service. they guys at my indian dealer are nice...but they dont service my bike either i just do it my self. that being said i dont buy bikes for the "scene" or to make friends i ride for alone time with my thoughts so im not concerned with the dealers that much...i have a big one to go far and small to act like a hoodlum
Indian all the way. Price matters, and Indian is the better value per dollar. My personal opinion is Indian looks better than what Harley is doing lately. You’re not a rebel anymore on an HD, now the true rebels own scouts, and the conservatives own HD baggers.
Victory owner hers. Polaris had a great bike in Victory and a loyal owner's group. Polaris shit on us to take on Indian. I will never buy an Indian.
If I could afford it I’d buy a Indian Springfield
Harley wins hands down in touring and between Softail and Chief Harley wins again for better variety. I fully agree, in the smaller cruiser Harley dropped the ball. The primary problem is Harley violated the first rule of Harley styling, the motor does not look good. The poor integration of the radiator on the Harley is also shameful. As for the FTR and Pan America, two interesting options but I suspect both are not large sellers. For Harley, nearly all their volume losses have been because of the Revolution Max based motorcycles. I suspect their first quarter 2024 numbers are going to jump significantly given that three local dealers I frequent are sending many of the new bikes out the door.
Indian needs to update the Chieftain and Challenger so how much they copy Harley this time will be interesting. They need an Indian bespoke navigation unit instead of the bolted on Polaris unit, it really makes them look like an afterthought. It has been disappointing the Chieftain line up never received the Challenger's six axis ABS. Indian has some nice quality of life features I wish Harley had, namely the electronically adjustable windscreen, but in the end the biggest let down anytime I toyed with buying one is the fit and finish.
As for pricing, Harley is beating Indian where it counts, their new Street Glide and Road Glide undercut Limited and Darkhorse models significantly and offer much better fit, finish, and electronics. As for markup, having a selection of nearby dealers I can honestly say that you buy your new Harley below MSRP. The real zinger at many dealerships lately has been raising doc fees.
Harley is dropping every year. Their bikes are slow unreliable trash, their dealerships are garbage, and their sales demographic is old fat balding posers wanting to play bike4
I'm thinking Indian is going to sell a boat load of those new Scouts. 1 point
Indian still makes a completely air cooled engine on their bigger bikes. 2 points
I think Indian engines are better quality than Harley engines. 3 points
11:10 There was a man in my MSF course, a grown man, well into his 50's, who was obsessed with getting a HD so he could get into a motorcycle club. He said that he could only get in with a HD.
I thought, how pathetically immature. That's a part of bike culture that I don't understand or care for.🤷🏽♀️
I'll keep my 91FLHS EVO 😊
If it were all about cost and value, H-D may not have survived this long. The H-D brand and image it projects carries the day.
It the Harley image that has always kept me far away.🤔😎 Never seen anyone on a Harley that would be part of my social circle 🫣.
HD is the most iconic motorcycle brand in the world but you can only surf off that for so long.
😢
Harley Davidson has always been recognized and associated with machoness and masculinity.
According to Harley owners
@@johnDukemaster yes, as what they are claiming.
@johnDukemaster Well done!👏🏼
A product for some guys, and gals, to help them feel macho.
It worked well in the past but may not be relevant anymore. Now you look at a Harley rider an think rich, not tough.
Hello Bangladesh
Hh
Once again another great video! Comparing the cruiser segment went to Harley however the review did not include any mention of the tech. The two companies have very different approaches in this segment. A lot of the Indians have a sophisticated digital display that allows you to choose how you want to see a ton of data in different ways, and set ride modes. Harley (I am thinking of the Street Bob which looks like an awesome bike to me) has a display that I'd say is deliberately minimalist, a small rectangle hidden inside the clamp of the handlebars, as out-of-the-way possible. That means you concentrate on the world around you. I can appreciate that because one benefit of being on a motorcycle is getting away from phones and tablets and computers and into the real world. So I'm completely torn between these two approaches. If I had one of each, my choice on what to ride would depend on the day. But right now I have neither, and that Indian built-in navigation looks hard to beat. Based on that, I think I'd give this category to Indian.
Yep, I've always liked the clean look of the Street Bob display. It looks like it doesn't even have one and makes you think of the old school choppers. However, the new Harley baggers have enormous touch screens and have dumped analog displays altogether.
I would like to see Indian make an Adventure Bike like Harley did with the Pan American!
Pan America loses money and doesn't sell
It's the best selling Adventure motorcycle in America! You might want to check the facts
@@Ljbuddy12 it's losing money and backed up on dealer floors. Oh and known for endless electrical problems.
You were saying something?
Another great video! Thanks for the comprehensive comparison. Currently, i would have to give it to Indian; styling and price.
Styling is subjective and prices are very comperable.
Thanks! It's great to have choice.
M y guy Indian has been past Harley y u think y'all got all those different motors an new bikes out lol
Id buy an Indian but I wouldn't buy a Harley.