The Vanderbilt Ball of 1883 and the Dumb Rich People Drama that Caused It
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 01. 2023
- Check out Wondershare PDFelement! Best PDF Editor: bit.ly/3hWGiXX
PDFelement Mobile: bit.ly/3Z4R3s6
Christmas Discount: bit.ly/3jcTdVO
#wondershare #pdfelement
In the Gilded Age, tension was high between the old money families with power and the nouveau riche families rising in high society. To challenge the New York system ruled by the Astor family, Alva Vanderbilt concocted an intricate scheme: she threw a huge costume ball like no one had ever seen before. Come learn with me about some rich people drama and let's rank some Victorian costumes!
Buy my graphic novel, Liberated: The Radical Art and Life of Claude Cahun: www.kazrowe.com/comics/cahun
shop.getty.edu/products/liber...
Find me on Twitter: / kazrowe
I'm on TikTok @ kazrowe
Find me on IG: / kaz.rowe
Buy my comics: gumroad.com/kazrowe
Send me a ko-fi: ko-fi.com/A347K4X
Read my webcomic: www.cunningfire.com/
Catch it on Tapas: tapas.io/series/cunning-fire
Line Webtoons: www.webtoons.com/en/challenge...
Filmed using:
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4k- www.blackmagicdesign.com/prod...
Blackmagic Video Assist 5” HDR - www.blackmagicdesign.com/prod...
Olympus M. Zuiko ED 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro- www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...
Samsung Portable SSD T5 - 2Tb- www.samsung.com/us/computing/...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sources
Mrs. Astor's New York: Money and Social Power in a Gilded Age By Eric Homberger
Fashion & Fancy in New York: The American Monarchs by Emilia Müller
Vanderbilt: The Rise and Fall of an American Dynasty by Anderson Cooper and Katherine Howe
Fashion and fancy in New York: Costume balls of the Gilded Age by Emilia Müller
New York Has A Ball: The Bradley Martin Extravaganza by ROBERT MUCCIGROSSO
The Aura of 660 Fifth Avenue: Alva Vanderbilt, Richard Morris Hunt, and the Emergence of American Luxury by Catherine Moran
The Gilded Finch: An Exploration of Class Conflict by Mattea Harrison
Vanderbilt Ball: How a costume ball changed New York elite society by Susannah Broyles for MCNY www.mcny.org/story/vanderbilt...
The Obscenely Lavish Vanderbilt Ball That Inspired the Season Finale of The Gilded Age By Elise Taylor for Vogue www.vogue.com/article/the-obs...
Mid-Week Echoes, The Sun, Thursday March 29, 1883 mcnyblog.files.wordpress.com/...
All Society In Costume, New York Times, March 27, 1883
Aftermath: Echoes from the Vanderbilt Ball Room, The Evening Star: Washington, Wednesday April 4, 1883
New York City Life, The Brooklyn Daily Eagle, Sunday April 15, 1883
Jumbo vs. Vanderbilt, The Boston Daily Globe, Sunday April 1, 1883
Vanderbilt’s Ball: New York Aristocracy Turns Out En Masse, The Boston Daily Globe, Tuesday March 27, 1883
New York’s Greatest Event: Mrs. Vanderbilt’s Grand Fancy Dress Ball to be Given Tonight, The Boston Daily Globe, Monday March 26, 1883
Photos from the Museum of the City of New York
At the end of this vid I mention it being my last of 2022 and saying I'm almost at 300k subs-- two things which have already passed haha. Apologies for this now being out of date, this video was originally going to go up last week. Thanks y'all!
I hope you trademark/copyrighted your name and your likeness - Folks are shady out here. You have a great channel. keep rising!
I hate to be "that" guy, but it's pronounced "Mobeel, Alabama", love your work
Kaz, I have a question. Have you ever heard the story of Madeline Astor? she was the second wife of John Jacob Astor IV and whose life was upended by John's death on the Titanic in 1912.
B Q
Why didn't you mention Alva Vanderbilt joining the Woman's Suffrage movement later in life as Alva Erskine Belmont?
The fact that they tore down a castle to build a skyscraper is really sad to me. I know it creates more vertical space, but to lose that level of art is just depressing.
Seeing all those ugly buildings replace the gorgeous mansions is depressing.
The Vanderbilts (among many other wealthy millionaires of the time) have beautifully preserved summer homes in Newport, Rhode Island. Highly suggest taking a look into those. I talked to a staff member about their New York home and he said that their summer home was incomparable to their New York home.
Oh you're depressed for millionaires. It's more depressing knowing that they spent all that money to build that to tear it down. When there are thousands of homeless people and poor people in New York then and now. Total waste. And nothing about your house would have them feeling sad if it was torn down for any reason. 🙄
@@danielabertolotti-perez6923 II don’t feel bad for the millionaires, I am a fan of historic architecture. I am well aware of the disparities of that era (and now).
@@susanpage8315 I totally agree.
the way I GASPED when you said they didn’t invite Mrs. Astor’s daughter! the cleverness! the low blow! the high quality gossip!
lol I love this comment
I fainted!
@@leeannasloan2292😂
My hunch is you need to start a channel!
That’s literally what went down in Gilded Age. Highly recommend it
Imagine having such an epic costume that people a century later still remember it...
Good point
I'm not even a fan of the court jester look, but when Isaac Bell came on screen I gasped and said he looks marvelous and belongs in S tier. His posing, that outfit, it's just so on point, that guy slayed.
My Great Great grandmother was the Piano teacher for the Vanderbilt's and my Grandmother actually had a collection of photos she donated to their museum. Whenever we went to Biltmore, she loves to tell people there and a lot of the staff are descends themselves. So there's this workingclass solidarity between them
That's pretty cool
This shows something of significance. Why do these people value this kind of servitude so much? There's more that meets the eye than you would expect.
My paternal grandmother taught music at The Webb School in Bell Buckle, TN and piano and voice to children in Nashville and surrounding counties, until 1947.
That's awesome. What a wonderful story. I bet she had some awesome stories! Would love to hear them...
@@theobolt250 My thoughts exactly.
Alva Vanderbilt's ball was exactly what I wanted from the gilded glamor met gala. And instead I got disappointment. A modern take on the electric light dress would've been amazing.
It's, literally a cosplay ball at a convention, right down to everyone taking photos of their expensive costumes
John Whipple's costume was emulating a Spanish Toreador (Bull-Fighter). Because of the striking contrast and detail of his garment, I personally thought it was kind of amazing.
This was the comment I was looking for! :)❤
If I am remembering correctly, The 400 was also in reference to how many people Mrs. Astors ballroom could hold. That was how the number of acceptable society came into being, how many people could fit in a ballroom of a specific person.
She just restricted the number for fun, and her ballroom could hold well over 400 people!
Her first ballroom held 400. When they moved uptown her balls grew to 1200 people as her home was much larger
She started with the 400 and kept it that way so she wouldn't have to worry about not inviting the new rich...
@@LlyleHunter usually balls aren't supposed to grow like that, did she get checked for testicular cancer?
These costume parties still kind of happen. Once I was on a college shuttle in Rhode Island and I overheard this group of (maybe students? Maybe people from the area catching the bus to the train?) talking about their family histories and how they were from the first families to America. One girl casually mentioned with a chastising tone how her grandma would talk about how many slaves the family used to own. Then they all started talking about the upcoming annual workers party. Basically all these privileged kids would dress up like the working class as a theme. One of the kids sheepishly mentioned how his family was basically nouveau riche and he didn't think it was right for him to participate and pointed out the ick factor or a party like this.
Damn, good on him ig
As a Rhode Islander, I believe you're confused and this tale is filled with one too many gaps.
Eyes wide shut is today’s costume party style amongst the elite .
Yup that sounds like the kids in College Hill alright.
its legit the met gala
The Chinese costume was actually pretty well done, I liked it. I am Chinese, by the way
The craftsmanship looks exquisite. I wish there were hi def photos available
Bruh honestly, I can't wait till we get past the cultural appropiation thing. Mexican here and as a little kid and even now I've always wanted to wear those beautiful chinese dresses(cheogsam?). I don't think I'd be able to today. I'd probably get shot down for being "insulting" or something when in reality I just appreciate how pretty they are.
@@ltahoe9257it’s not something people will rlly get over. it’s weird that peoples ancestors or even grandparents have done horrible things to people of colour then proceed to take from the cultures after commuting genocide or even trying to kill out that culture in all of society ei: native people. it’s really up to the group that these crimes and genocide was committed against. there’s a lot of nuance to it but i don’t expect people who don’t have much empathy to understand. or historic knowledge.
@@ltahoe9257I think the common consensus is that you can absolutely celebrate another culture, aka wearing their traditional clothes in a respectful way while wbing mindful of the culture and ideally getting some input from people of that culture. "Cultural appropriation" is supposed to be used for instances where people use other cultures as a mere costume or make a mockery of another culture. To be fair to Kaz, I think it's reasonable to assume that white American elites in the 19th century were not respecting the cultures they were using as a costume.
@@mallarieluvsgirls This idea could not be more eurocentered and UScentered. What if someone from Africa wants to go to a costume party as an ancient Chinese aristocrat? Then how can you acuse that person of having "ancestors who have done horrible things to people of colour and the proceed to take from their cultures". Do you reallize that NOT EVERYBODY is from the US or European? That maybe just maybe the rest of the world (over three quarters of it has nothing to do with that history and we would enjoy dressing up as each other? You guys are always so self centered even when trying to be politically correct. Most of us around the rest of the world couldn't care less about your "polítical correctness" and the things you would like to as usual impose on others to make you guys feel better about yourselves. Dressing up as someone else is not usually done as mockery it's usually a compliment because one can appreciate the beauty in the other culture. Woke statements like yours are SO boring always trying to view everything from an American or European point of view and forcing such view on the rest of the world.
I can never ever hear the name "Vanderbilt" without smirking to myself. Not since 10th grade history class when my teacher pointed out, with a completely straight face, that Alva Belmont threw a literal tantrum over the fact that she didn't get invited to Jack Aster's balls.
I am a simple woman. I see Kaz Rowe upload a new history video and I will drop everything (including office work) to watch it.
I literally put the office “do not disturb” status on so I could watch! Lol!
same, i was in uni live lesson and i dipped cause they send the recording anyway. kaz >>>>
Saaaaame. My heart sings whenever a new Kaz video appears in my feed.
As long as you are not a surgeon mid surgery, it's ok, job can wait.
Same.. truly
Watching the outfit ranking has me realizing they must have had a lot of photographers and background spaces available. Like a museum that's just Instagram bait, rooms and rooms of just backgrounds
Often it would be painted backdrops with props. Like a photo studio.
@@GreebleClown good point, I'd didn’t think about that! But with the things in the foreground, the extent of it all, and how many people were there, I bet it was still a few rooms. Still, that sounds wayy more manageable
@@kazza6078 Yeah, most of the studio would be packed with props or the customer would bring some of their own. I still remember going to the photo studio as a child and the back room was floor to ceiling with things to sit on, put in the foreground, and hold, all depending on what theme the photo had.
often it was one well-lit room and a bunch of swappable painted backdrops and props
“I think this video is revealing something about me” the only thing being revealed is that you have good fashion sense - and a soft spot for swords
The Electric Light gown is one of my favorite Worth gowns, and i highly recommend doing a deep dive into his work. He was the most influential gown maker for a long time, and to own even one of his gowns was a huge status symbol in and of itself.
John Whipple was dressed as a Zouave soldier, which were specialized regiments during the American Civil War. They wore Ottoman-inspired costumes, and were famous for their drill-team work (there are some old, early film of their drills on YT, kind of like cheerleaders, but with rifles). They also fought like hell, and were much feared.
Hi there! Was scrolling through the comments to see reference to that costume. I looked up the Zouave soldier (learned something! Very cool!) and the costume doesn't really match with what John Whipple is wearing, I think? Is there documentation describing his costume? To me, it looked somewhat matador-ish (the pants, stockings, and shoes). The hat threw me off though. Thoughts?
@Carol Belle There were many different Zouave groups and they all dressed differently. Some Zouave regiments were still active at the time of the party, so he may actually have been one, himself. I don't know if that's what he was trying to portray, but the Zouaves were extremely popular in culture, and it just reminded me of some of the photos and drawings I've seen over the years. Your mileage may vary.
PS- it is gratifying to hear you were inspired to learn something new. This channel fosters that kind of community.
@@ilionreactor1079
I got more of a hussar vibe from the costume, but that was mainly from the elaborate trousers. I'm probably wrong, though.
I knew there was something ottoman empire about it.
Zouaves wore baggy trousers. This fellow is wearing a version of Montenegrin national dress.
Years ago, I read a biography of Consuelo Vanderbilt. A lot of nouveau riche traveled to Europe and met royalty and aristocrats. To titled Europeans all Americans whether they were old Boston Brahmins, old Philadelphia society, old New York descended from Dutch settlers or the newly rich, were all the same. So Alva took her family to Europe, met and wined and dined with royalty. When Alva announced her ball, she let it be known that the guest of honor was a high ranking member of English aristocracy or royalty. (I cannot remember his name or exact rank but it was high). This is the reason all those old money people wanted to attend Alva's ball. Rubbing shoulders with royalty gave Alva instant status.
That was a different ball Alva had and it was the Duke of Marlborough who married Alvas daughter and the ball was in Newport. The reason why everyone wanted to attend was to see Alvas house which was new, grander and cost more then any other house so everyone wanted to get inside to see for themselves.
This subject was so interesting, but I will say that while I don’t agree with anyone mocking another culture in any way, we do have to be mature and realize that these are not our specific choices, they were a product of the group mindset (however poor) of the era. I realize this is your personal costume ranking, but looking specifically at the costuming for what it was, some of them definitely could have scored better on the workmanship and creativity within the chosen theme. No big deal❤
I was thinking the same thing.
Agreed.
Me too! I came here to say exactly the same.
I agree, using todays politically correct tendencies to judge the costume choices from a ball that took place well over 100 years ago isn't really fair.
When a Gen Z’er judges costumes from over a century ago…🙄
Putting the woman with the Egyptian costume in Dud is sadly revisionist. I mean, at the time, she probably hired an amazing seamstress or costume maker to make something that they both believed looked realistic and she probably loved everything she could find about ancient egypt. She personally had nothing to do with any governmental or industrial policies towards the middle east.
It's Kaz's personal list; it's not like the choice has significance regarding what history is going to be preserved or something.
i’m glad you mentioned anderson cooper in here. that blew my mind when i first found that out. it’s actually pretty depressing if you go down the wikipedia rabbit hole of either the richest american families or political families because the amount of overlap and how many of the two groups are either married or related is kinda terrifying although i’m not surprised. so many of the mega rich have sway in the government not only by wealth but through blood as well.
Yeah since you're supposed to be anti monarchy!
The reason there's so much similarity between politics now and in the Gilded Age is because everything is being run by the same families. I keep saying that we need to take all of their things and banish them to isolated islands where they only have each other, but I guess everyone would rather have another great depression instead. I can't wait for that! Start stuffing money in your mattresses now, kids!
@@haileybalmer9722 you Americans just need to raise taxes on the rich like Obama talked about and the rest of the world needs to shut down tax havens, I'm looking at you Ireland, island nations, Maryland!
freemasons
@@seabreeze4559 ? Freemasons are a group of non religious do gooders.
Speaking of the Vanderbilts - I’m sure you’re aware that in 1895 George Vanderbilt constructed the grand Biltmore mansion in Asheville. They would also throw lavish parties at this mansion, with it being a popular spot due to the fact that it had an indoor pool (something no one had in their houses yet). I would love to see you do more videos on rich people drama and parties, especially on the hijinks that happened at the Biltmore ones! Anyway I love your content, it’s exactly my vibe of history mixed with a love of fashion
I'm from NC and never knew this! Thank you for sharing, I do hope Kaz shares stories of the Biltmore hijinks
Didn't he try to get people to essentially become serfs on the estate?
I've toured the V. Mansion in Poughkeepsie NY but never the one in Asheville. Hellacious ceiling art featuring a nude Mr. Vanderbilt himself.
That pool scared me so much as a kid. Seeing it empty made me feel like I was going to fall in and slide right down the drain. Hoping to visit again soon. Such an interesting place.
@@WabbyDoo oh man that pool freaked me out so much when I went there. This was in December 2000; I was 9 and for some reason I instantly felt scared when my group went through the room and I couldn't get out fast enough. Had no weird feelings with the rest of the Biltmore, it was just that fucking indoor pool.
I feel perhaps this video was viewed through too modern of a lens. Such as giving the one woman less of a rating just because of the furs she was wearing. I completely understand hating poaching, I hate it too. But back then it was definitely a status symbol and she would have been Miss Thang back then haha. But otherwise I really enjoy the commentary, research, and pictures.
Admittedly, I think that dress looked pretty damn tacky.
I think that costume was most likely supposed to be an African cultural appropriation costume because they were stereotyped as wearing furs like that back then so it deserved the lowest ranking especially since the ball was involving proconfederates .
I love rich people drama purely because it's hilarious to watch them melt down over complete non-issues.
My beloved grandmother also passed away last year- I binged your videos and it helped take my mind away from the overwhelming grief for a while. She was basically my mother for a huge chunk of my life. Thank you for all your videos, and hope your year ahead treats you with gentleness and grace.
Blessings dear. I lost my mum. It’s hell. And yes, Kaz has helped so very much. Be kind to yourself, sending you comfort and solace. Big hugs @ohdarah ❤️
The intense sweet love for a grandmother made worse by the primal grief for a mother is such a huge painful life event. Wishing you find some beauty and connection whether through nature, animals, human kindness. Maybe if it is good to see a counsellor.
@@DeidreL9 thank you so much 💗
The Egyptian costume was, by far, the best. Absolutely glorious and detailed. Cleopatra would have been proud.
Just had to say I have a dear, dear friend who texts me periodically throughout the day, telling me which sitcom she's watching or what she just ate, what somebody else did or said. When she asks what I'm doing, I usually just say I'm reading, listening to music or watching a video. This time, I told her what I'm watching, to which she replied "oh". I answered "lol, you asked". During the ensuing conversation, I realized that if my mind is not stimulated, I'm bored and bitchy. My friend and I both thank you for stimulating my mind today and teaching me new things! I'm a new subscriber as of today. Thank you for helping me to be a better person. I'm so sorry for the loss of your dear grandfather.
Is it possible that a lot of the costumes don't still exist because they used pieces of those costumes to make new ones for the latest party? I know they were all wealthy, but I'm sure some among them had a sense of frugality with certain things. Just a thought.
possible, it's also possible that they were viewed as disposable, it is simpler (tho not simple) to make a costume that will look great for one night, as opposed to one that will stand up to multiple uses.
Valid point. You don't often become rich by lavish spending.
Short answer: fast fashion was all the rage in the late 19th century, and a lot of clothing was not made to last. Re-using older clothes was also popular (I think at least a few of them are using original pieces from the 18th century).
@@elizabethsohler6516 That may be true for working and middle class people, but the kind of people who would organize and go to these balls were already drowning in money. Hell, the whole point was to spend a lot of money to show off how rich you are. Frugality was the absolute last thing on people's mind
@@mynamejeff3545 True.
Since it was a costume Ball as far as costumes go I personally think the Egyptian gown was gorgeous.
a lot of work by a designer
I agree we it is good. We should never expect historical people to think like us and impose or personal values on them although I agree that Alva Vanderbilt was not nice
@@kellicoffman8440 Before I cut "historical people" slack because maybe they didn't know better on any particular issue,
I ask myself if maybe there were, actually, plenty of people at that time who objected to the same stuff we object to, today? Then I look for that,
& more often than not it turns out there were people in every year & decade & century saying, like,
"Hey, that shitty behavior is shitty"
🤔🤷🏻♂️
Yeah I don’t think dressing up in Egyptian style gown is offensive. Honestly people would probably be honored to have people finding their fabrics and garments beautiful. We did used to TRADE materials etc. The whole notion of cultural appropriation is a woke made up term by young people in a first world country with nothing to complain about. If we go into world war 3 believe me the wokeness will disappear and we will all revert back to traditional gender roles as history shows us society always does during hard times. The times are not hard now, which is why we are so BLESSED to be complaining about made up issues.
@@tula1433 exactly my thoughts on the subject
I love your videos! I've learned so much. Just a side note, Mobile, AL is pronounced, 'Mo-beel' most likely to separate us from the "Mo-byle" you might see hanging above a crib. This is certainly not that important in the overall message of your video I know but I just thought I'd pointed out since I'm a Mobilian. Thank you again for your videos and how you're able to inform in a way that is relatable and memorable 😊
You have your Williams mixed up.
The Commodores heir was William Henry Vanderbilt whose wife was Maria (née Kissam), one of their sons was called William Kissam Vanderbilt (Willie K) whose wife was the social climber Alva. They divorced some years later when it became accepted. Check out the story of their daughter Consuelo who was coerced by Alva to marry the Duke of Marleborough, a wealth for title exchange. Her book, The Glitter and the Gold is back in reprint.
Consuelo Vanderbilt is a fascinating person to hear about if you ever feel like diving into her story. She definitely had enough going on in life to warrant a video. She had a horrible mother who effectively sold her for prestige (who is surprised?). I heard a podcast rundown on her a few years ago but it was a fascinating listen
Do you happen to remember the podcast/episode?
@Memorian The History Chicks podcast episode 134. That episode has several gilded age heiresses but Consuelo was definitely the most memorable to me.
I knew her name was familiar and now remember her from a book I read a couple years ago about the Dollar Princesses of American heiresses basically sold off to English nobility who needed the large dowries of money to save their estates 🙄 So they were trapped in these loveless marriages in a society they were ill prepared for with entirely different rules
@spectral balladeer absolutely 🙄 all for titles that honestly they didn't need at that level of wealth. 🤦♀️
@spectral balladeer That sounds like the plot of Crimson Peak! How interesting, I didn't realize this was a thing at that time
you do know they didnt have political correctness back then. judge them on the quality of the custome not on social conciousness
🎁......Hello fan thanks for watching and commenting, you have been selected among my shortlisted winner's....👆👆👆.... 🎁🎁
You realize none of this matters either way, right?
I’m a huge history nerd and can’t believe that I just now found your channel. It’s safe to say I’m obsessed now.
As a Rhode Islander who has visited a number of the Newport Mansions, including the ones build by the Vanderbilts, a video about the juicy Vanderbilt history is right up my alley 💕
I think the only one I haven’t been to is rosecliff. My favorite parts of the tour besides the gardens outside, are the bathrooms! I snuck a picture of a bathtub that was carved out of marble I think? it was so thick
Always so cool to find fellow Rhode Islanders in Kaz’s comment section
@@bobymcgee Rosecliff is such a stunning piece of architecture! I love the ballroom. The gardens are also one of my favorite parts. I also love the bathrooms, too! They are so lavish, it’s insane!
Many school trips spent walking around those mansions- I'm proud to be a Rhode Islander ⚓ 🌊
Anybody know which source I can read to find out what an awful person Alva was?
The Egyptian one was fire. S-tier. As a black woman whose culture is sold worldwide...I love the costume.
Everyone's culture is sold worldwide and Egyptians have historically been very mixed with people who are from outside the African continent
@gnostic268 True, I'm cool with it.
Mentions at the start that she's not going to take anything besides the costumes into account, only for her to abandon that thought altogether and give an S tier costume a D based on modernist views.
What does being a Black American have to do with being Egyptian?
Please name any Black American cultural garb that was actually created by Black Americans, not a fashion style of wearing clothes designed by other culture, but unique Black American cultural garb
I barely found your channel and have immediately become obsessed with your topics.
I hope you are doing better health wise and my condolences
I'm so ready to hear more about all this rich, horrible people drama!
More, Kaz, please!!
I'm so sorry about your grandpa passing 😢
I have a lot of health issues and when I’m feeling sick it’s hard to find watching anything enjoyable, but your vids are something I can always turn to to distract me from the pain I’m in and I never have to worry that the subject matter of the videos will make me feel worse so thank you :)
I find it hard to read books etc in such a state, but to hear about the trivial misfortunes of the silly rich in the Gilded Age at a historical Fyre fest really can't hit close to home.
A lot of people have health problems but don't feel the need to share it on the internet for 'likes' &/or comments.
Save that 💩 for tiktok, it's got a whole load of attention seeking kids making videos on their health issues. 😂😂😂.
@@miss.l.1563 there’s no need to be rude. I’m being appreciative of the fact that they’ve helped me through those times. God, no one can say anything on the internet without someone assuming their intentions are bad and then being a dick about it. I can say whatever tf I want wherever tf I want. It’s not harming you or anyone else so keep your brazen comments to yourself.
I’m too busy looking for attention for my illness to put up with this shit 😂
"I'm going to judge these costumes solely on the merit of the costumes." *Proceeds to judge the costumes on modern day standards of appropriateness.* I enjoyed your video essay, except for this part.
Agree. So dissapoiting.
Same. It was the 1880s, so of course there were going to be people dressed in clothing from or inspired by other cultures! The comment about the Egyptian costume made me roll my eyes.
I agree. I understood the point about the Egyptian costume being a result of their culture being seen as trendy to consume by wealthy Americans. Nevertheless, it was a GORGOUS piece, clearly made with a lot of good intent, love, and gorgeous craftsmanship, even if part of that was due to romanticization. It was S tier to me for sure. She didn't do just another generic "European" costume. It stands out, and even though we obviously know better now, I definitely think that would fit into "cultural appreciation" for the time.
Same here, I couldn't finish the video because of this.
Modern American college kids’ standards*
I don’t know how I stumbled upon this channel but I am so glad I did! I am from England and know nothing about the Guilded Age and this family. But I have already bought a book off Amazon on it. Thank you you are my new favourite channel!!
Don’t lie to us Kaz, you made this video just as an excuse to rate hoity toity ball dresses
Worthy cause?
this is such perfect timing for my audition to be warner in legally blonde where in my monologue i say “and my brothers at yale law, and so is his new wife. and she’s a god damn vanderbilt!!”
This is what went round in my head the entire time as well, lmao
hi i hardly ever comment on videos but my dad and i love history and have struggled to find a channel we both like until we found you. your videos are well thought out and put together and you bring a certain charm to each of them i've never seen before so i wanted to thank you for giving my dad and i something to bond over and some quality time together. love your videos!
🎁......Hello fan thanks for watching and commenting, you have been selected among my shortlisted winner's....👆👆👆🎁... 🎁
just wanted to drop in and say that i really love your videos and they've taught me a lot about history while being accessible and entertaining to watch! i've always struggled a bit with learning history, because i didn't learn much at school and so i don't have very good foundations, but your videos are such a great place for me to learn in a chill environment while i craft along :)
It was nice to see your perspective on the Egyptian inspired dress. I'm a South Asian person so I can't speak very much to the Egyptian experience but I thought it was interesting that you put the Egyptian inspired gown in dastardly duds it seemed well made and definitely not authentic but more inspired by Egyptian elements. Also, just pointing out the Belmont man right after was sporting a tulwar (Indian curved blade) as well as some Indian elements in his dress during the time India was literally still under English occupation.
Apparently cultural appropriation that this person doesn’t recognize is acceptable
And it’s bad to kill Wildcats but fine to kill domestic ones
Yeah it was foolish to assume the costume was made through nefarious ways. Even if it was, the criteria for judging the costumes shouldn't include assumptions on whether it was culturally appropriating or not. The Egyptian dress definitely belongs in the Simply Marvelous column.
It was a bummer that she was judging a 19th century dress by today's standards. Like that's a no for me, specially when she said she was going to do the ranking based only on the fashion, not the people.
@@persephonev3074 i thought the same, it was a very beautiful dress! but on a somewhat unrelated note, i think kaz rowe uses they/them pronouns?
@@iamthebleh Really? I had no idea, didn't mean to disrespect.
Justice for Second Dude With Sword who didn't get put into the S category for simply having a sword! He was robbed!
I hope this year is better for you than the last. Thank you for these videos, they've helped ease my anxiety as I try to fall asleep at night.
🎁......Hello fan thanks for watching and commenting, you have been selected among my shortlisted winner's....👆👆👆... 🎁🎁
"egypt and its culture as something to consume" i mean they literally DID, they did in fact eat them mummies
I had gotten into The Gilded Age last year and done some reading into the real-life inspirations behind the drama with the Russels and the old money (including the Astors). So I’m super excited to watch this video to get even greater details and backstory.
I watched the show quite recently & it's made me want to read about that era.
Great show.
Alva’s daughter was named after Consuelo Yznaga. Consuelo Vanderbilt was forced by her mother to marry Winston Churchill’s cousin, the 9th Duke of Marlborough.
i realised recently that my home and sub pages were full of negativity and sadness. thank you for making your videos, you helped me tonight 💖
I love learning about basic events from the past, and I'm so glad your video appeared in my recommendations!
lol not me seeing this 15 seconds after it was posted
I'm late! A full minute after upload. Shame on me.
@@TalLikesThat a whole 2 minutes 😩
hey Kaz! alabama native here: just wanted to mention the city of Mobile is pronounced Mo-Beel. great video! 💗💗💗
Was about to comment that. 👍🏻
Quite a lot of pronunciations butchered in this. Whew. lol
I'm so sorry about your grandpa. And your ER visits. I hope things look up for you this year.
I'm amazed just how much inserting a laptop into the shot with you breaks the immersion I didn't even know I was experiencing. :D
god i love learning about terrible historical people and their shenanigans
If the content were factual and not opinion.
@@possumroberts1856 Glad someone had the courage to say it. We're living in a second dark age so any opinion these particular people have on history is disregarded by me.
@@TheEternallyAggrieved1999 it's literally just a tier list of pretty dresses from a ball. It's not a top-down act of political sabotage of the working class or whatever, it's not that deep. It doesn't require "courage" to complain about a CZcams video.
@@TheEternallyAggrieved1999 oh no gay people exist its a second dark age!!!! thank god someone had the courage to say they hate gay people!!!! gay people are trying to steal straight history from us!!!!
23:50 And old roommate I had in my twenties was Wiccan; she had the same broom. It was her "travel broom" that she would pack into her suitcase. My best friend hated her (for good reason) and loved to joke that the little broom was how she so often flew across the country.
You can’t just say that you’re best friend hated someone for good reason and not give us some tea.
And just so you know, it kind of comes off as you saying that being Wiccan is good reason to hate someone. Just saying.
@@thequeenofcringe1585 Oops! No, absolutely NOT saying anything negative about Wiccans, just Nicole's personality. I knew she practiced witchcraft when I moved in and though I myself am an atheist I wasn't raised on hate and her religion never felt threatening in any way. All beliefs deserve respect and this country is built on our differences. It was built FOR our differences. It was the woman that was difficult for me to tolerate. Soapbox...I digress.
Nicole was a petty, entitled little brat that had a major problem with alcohol. When she'd have more than a glass or two of wine, her already unstable personality was amplified. She openly hated men and whenever she saw Nick (my friend) whilst in a drunken state she went out of her way to publicly humiliate him -- and even to inflict physical pain once. I knew she had mental health issues when she moved in (so do I); I did not know the true beast that Nicole could be with booze. It took a minute to move out and I didn't exactly come out unscathed either.
Even at 40, Nick looks like a cute, freckle-faced kid, but he's also the most emotionally generous, funniest, kindest-to-all person I've ever met. He's the kind of guy that can take a bully down with kind words and humor. Everyone that meets him loves having him around and looks forward to seeing him again.
I think this intimidated the hell out of Nicole because life always seems effortless for Nick (it's not). She would body-shame him for being small in stature, she threw red wine on him once as a greeting, she made jokes about his non-existent love life, and even try to make him feel inadequate about his relationship with me. And once, Nick said to her, "Merry Christmas, Nicole." And she claw-slapped him, leaving four huge, ragged scratches across his face. He looked like a suspect with defensive wounds.
I don't care if she was Wiccan, one of the Abrahamic religions, Buddhist, or anything else -- she was just an asshole.
🫖Come over any time for tea!🫖
@@thequeenofcringe1585 wicca is heavily based on and around cultural appropriation !!
@@thequeenofcringe1585 It doesn’t come off like her friend hated her for being Wiccan. The reason she mentioned she was Wiccan is because she had the broom. The reason she mentioned her friend hating her was because they made jokes about her. The two don’t go together at all. And unless this particular Wiccan girl comes from at least one of the cultures Wicca steals from, being Wiccan is a reason to dislike someone. Saying you have special powers, that were only believed to be held by people of certain cultures, is very uncool if you don’t belong to those cultures. The term Wiccan in itself is a huge red flag, because people who practice the magic of their ancestors identify as what their ancestors did. I’ve never met a Wiccan that wasn’t a white Anglo Saxon.
@@lilithserena342 did I say anything even remotely close to “wicca is completely perfect uwu”?
This is the first of your videos I’ve watched. I really enjoyed it. I’m sorry to hear about your grandpa. I look forward to watching more 😊
I hope things are doing better for you!! Thank you for all the work you do!
Okay, Kaz... This may win me some epic negative feedback... But seriously with the costume ratings!? Your opinions are totally chill in general (and they are opinions), but the historical and cultural diversity of the costumes was something very telling for their time and should not be judged according to our modern sensibilities regarding cultural appropriation. And, if you're going to judge based on cultural appropriation, then you're being totally unfair by misjudging Hispanic, European and Turkish influences higher than those more obvious like the Egyptian dress, as we have no evidence that the French inspired costumes were worn by a person of French descent, and the same goes the with Hispanic and Turkish dress. If we're going to condemn people, we should at the very least be egalitarian in our condemnations.
Agreed, was a little disappointed by the lack of understanding regarding what cultures the costumes were from unless painfully obvious and then the assumption based on skin colour that someone may or may not wear a costume.
@@tyrranide8708 I have serious issues with blanket cultural appropriation discussions. They exclude the cross cultural and historical influences which are both natural and often positive in human history. And they're full of logical fallacies which drive me batty!!! Like Regency dress was highly influenced by Grecian style, but it's totally okay to go full on Jane Austen and nobody calls that appropriation. But God forbid someone dress with a style or apparel which takes influences from ancient Egypt... Cross cultural influence in dress should be celebrated as one of the truly inspiring forms of global acceptance of cultural diversity. ... End Rant. 🌍💙
Came here to say that. They all stole from cultures that are not theirs. The egyptian inspired dress was stunning and the lady wearing it most likely didn't know about cultural appropriation since it's a modern thing. Fashion always was inspired by other cultures or centuries.
Yeah, that entire segment was ridiculous. She had no problem appreciating and enjoying different European inspired costumes but the moment she recognizes something from a different continent she decides to give a lecture instead.
@dagak1180 Exacty!! She likes what she likes, but if she doesn't understand what it is or it looks slightly ethnic, the person in it is guilty of "cultural appropriation", which back in the 1880s happened all the time by everyone, but not necessarily with malicious intent.
"So what did we learn: I don't actually like anyone in this story" me every time I study about the bourgeoisie
These are definitely not the bourgeoise; I suggest a dictionary and a history book
@@namedrop721 well I never said I was talking about the specific people in this video, I just made a joke with Kaz's phrase because I think it's funny. I suggest a class on "101 reading the room".
@@namedrop721 Thank you!! Absolutely correct.
I've just given up and made my own Kaz Rowe playlist - The content is too good!
🎁......Hello fan thanks for watching and commenting, you have been selected among my shortlisted winner's....👆👆👆🎁... 🎁
I've been to Biltmore so many times, but this is really my first time learning THIS much about the family!
I so appreciate the historical exactitude with which you do these videos. You treat us as if we have the intelligence and attention span of dignified adults who can actually sit through full length material. Thank you so much for the high quality of your work--even interspersed with humor and good fun. Nice jacket, BTW.
I’m sorry for your loss. Grandparents are something special and the time we spend with them are irreplaceable. I hope you have a wonderful year ahead. Thank you for all you do.
You are literally beyond adorable and funny rating the pictures. Your commentary was on point and had me in stitches. Love you and your channel!!
Spanish inspired gets ball worthy, but Egyptian inspired gets dud? Even when the Egyptian garb was clearly so much more detailed…
I totally understand why you dislike the Egyptian dress- but if you’re trying to simply judge on the flair, effort and detail of an outfit - it’s clearly one of the better ones.
To each their own tho.
The gentleman you asked about- I'm thinking he was dressing as a matador. The bolero jacket, those white stockings and the footwear put me in mind of bullfighters.
I was wondering that too but the fez threw me off!
That is _exactly_ what I was thinking… except for that hat. If it isn’t a matador, it could still be based on a Spanish persona of some kind…
Definitely not spanish. Ottoman inspired I think
This is very interesting. I bought a cabinet card of a lovely young man wearing a fancy costume that I found randomly at an antique store. I thought maybe he was an actor or something, but now I’m quite sure he must have been going to a dress ball like this one. The card was photographed by Talbot in New Berlin, NY, and the young man’s name is penciled on the back as Clarence.
i was just at the breakers mansion in newport, ri last week (the vanderbilt’s summer “cottage”) and it is absolutely insane. it was the very definition of “you have too much money”. it was very beautiful but also…why? it’s very ostentatious
I’ve been twice! It’s nicer in the summer, the garden/backyard area is so pretty.
It always made me mad that it was their “summer home” so it just sat empty most of the time.
I grew up in northern RI, where all of the factories were during the Industrial Revolution, so going on a field trip in the eighth grade and seeing the huge difference between the now crumbling factories and the mansion that had literal gold in the ceilings was… weird.
You can't judge these people by CURRENT social justice Stansfield standards.... this was a VASTLY different Era! WHY??!
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" - I loved the Egyptian costume!
I loved Isaac Bells costume because he really swung for the fences! Plus the pose he did for the gram 10/10
Kaz I found your videos a few months back and always watch ASAP when I see you’ve released a new one. I just want to say thank you for all the educational and entertaining content you make. I can’t imagine how much work goes into to researching and scripting these videos, and I hope you know how much you are appreciated!
If its any comfort, all of the outfits were 100% designed by tailors and worked on by servants, without any work put in by the rich jags who commissioned them. Kudos to all the hard working people who actually made these outfits
Obvsly the racist ones are shit but the people making it likely didn’t have a say in toning down the white nonsense in a lot of these
I’m so glad I’ve found my way to this side of CZcams!! Thanks for the video, very interesting and entertaining!! ❤
I'm sorry but even if the Egyptomania thing now is kind-of cringe, Egyptian dress lady is nothing less than iconic, Simply Marvelous. You want to make a statement? Make the statement "I'm a goddess! Worship me!"
I was watching you judge people's costumes while hand-sewing a historical blouse myself hehe :DD
The electric light dress is so pretty - I would love to make a replica one day!
I'm a little confused where the ones dressed as 'culturally inappropriate' such as Asian and Egyptian are marked low, yet the Arthurian knights and French 1700s inspired costumes ranked high?
she is trying to be gen Z woke. it takes all the fun out of it imo.
“He’s got a sword you guys.” This is peak Kaz I’m glad to see it
Oh hey! I had no idea that one of the Otis’ attended! Weirdly enough, the family naming tradition kept it so that there was a James every other generation (usually), so it’s fun to see a James represented here.
I love listening to your history videos, especially learning random history I would never learn otherwise! Would love to hear some anicent history / classic stories from you!
I myself do not take her lessons seriously but with a grain of salt.
The first ranked costume is giving strong Farquaad vibes.
There was a famous Dorothy Parker quip, about a 'nouveau riche' lady who sponsored a flower show, "You can lead a horticulture but you can not make her think."
First of all, love this. I recentlymoved from Nashville, where I worked at Vanderbilt University, and I've toured The Biltmore in Asheville, the Vanderbilt estate. If you can, you should go. The opulence and grandeur, and contrast that with the state of the South...it boggles the mind. Alva Vanderbilt was THE WORST. Her poor, poor daughter.
Secondly.
I saw the movie Babylon right after Christmas, and I thought of you THE WHOLE TIME. It is now a most sincere wish of my heart for you to do an essay about Clara Bow--I have no doubt that was already on your radar, but just in case not...I think I really only engaged with this movie the way I did because of you and creators like you, seriously. I'm also dying to know more about who the trumpet and sax players were based on. I have failed utterly to discover this. So I humbly beseech you to consider.
There was a section about this ball in the "Gilded Age" chapter of my grade 11 American History book, right next to a photograph of The Breakers.
Honestly...Wondershare PDFElement might be the only youtube ad that ever swayed me. That is a specific software I'd really like to have. Nice spon ✨
Haha, I've heard this a lot from people who don't live here, but in Mobile, Alabama we pronounce it Mo-bEEl and not Mo-bul. It has sparked many a heated conversation!
One of my new years resolutions was to learn more. I'm so glad I clicked on this video. Not only did I learn a lot, but I read the Luxe novels, a while back and it's fun to know the history of the society the chargers of the books were from.
I think you should do a vid on Marchesa Luisa Casati. An eccentric italian fashionista who was essentially the Lady Gaga of the early 20th century. She bought a palazzo . She walked Venice at night time dressed in an elaborate for a coat carrying a boa constrictor around her neck and walking her cheetahs on Bejeweled leashes... she snubbed Aleister Crowley offended Mussolini and inspired Cecil beaten . Fascinating woman Who Lived fast and died in poverty in london creating scarves out of discarded newspapers.
This is a good lead thank you!!
I must have her directions for scaves out of newspapers 📰
"She snubbed Aleister Crowley, offended Mussolini"
I already love her!
I love all of your videos - but seeing the name "Vanderbilt" really brought up an information in my brain.
I am a big fan of the Dating Sim Monster Prom and it has this character called Miranda Vanderbilt - so I immediately knew I was gonna find the inspiration for this specific character here.
Damn I love your history lessons.
wait thats why it sounded so familiar to me omfg
i love your work
The idea of people spending their after work hours standing outside a building full of crazy rich people for entertainment is low key awesome/hilarious.
I would love to know how the Vanderbilts even was able to get the guests to come if the Astors didn't approve? How did they get that far?
They mainly invited nouveau riche guests, so it didn't matter if Astor approved. But I'm sure they had already invited some, and possibly more after Carrie Astor secured her invitation.
@@skyetoddmakeupthey invited the same guests that Mrs. Astor would have invited. In fact Alva did her ball on the same day Mrs. Astor ALWAYS had hers! Mrs. Astor wasn't happy! Everyone went to Alvas cause they wanted to see her new over the top expensive mansion! Curiosity brought them to the ball! Alva was never really accepted, that's why she went to England to find a match for her daughter. A man with a title, if her daughter married into a title it was a garenteed entrance into the circle Mrs. Astor ran.
So sorry to hear you've had such an awful year! I just wanted to let you know that your videos have brought a great deal of joy to my life, and I'm deeply impressed by the fact that you've delivered such amazing, interesting work during a time that must have been deeply difficult. I hope this year will be better for you!
This is so interesting and entertaining. I especially appreciate you providing the information and insight about how & why Alva's strategy of not inviting Carrie turned out to be advantageous to everyone involved. Well done! Thank you! Subscribed.
I do believe this is my absolutely favorite new channel!! ❤