Why Would You Buy A Sim Racing Car Setup?
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- The market for selling sim racing car setups seems to be growing and that's no big surprise to me. As sims become more popular, more professional and more complex, the demand for something that is genuinely quite difficult to DIY well was bound to increase. But, they're not for everyone. So then, let's jump straight to the topic; why would you buy a sim racing car setup?
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I'm not skilled enough, or have the time and patience to mess with setups, but I just roll with the stock ones.😎👍
Yeah, there's always that option :)
That's me on the f1 games
Same here @R-VR Closet. I don't spend an adequate amount of time to require a third party setup.
Like wise, but what guarantee to quicker lap time & at what cost?
I'm with you.
Well covered mate. For me it's as simple as this.... Real race drivers pay engineers to set up their car. How is paying for a sim setup any different?
This is something it’s strange most sims seem to completely ignore and it really annoys me. From setting up a car through to race strategy it would be nice to have a bit of in game assistance. An in game engineer that you could choose to overrule would be great.
it is very different. Racing drivers pay engineers on top of a multi-million dollar deal, so the engineers' wage is just a formality at that point, while simracing is meant to be "the affordable alternative", so having to pay €25 or whatever coach dave charges per car just to be competitive, on top of a €100 T150, like in my case is kind of a big leap. Imo there should be a maket for esports-grade setups but what dave charges is overpriced.
Is it just me or is there a REALLY high frequency sound playing throughout the video?
There is. Not sure where that's come from, the file I uploaded is ok :S
I hear it too and was about to say something as well.
That explains why all the neighbours dogs just came running to my house.
I can hear it, the intro is fine but anything with commentary has it
Yeah there is
I think we need to remember that even amongst pro drivers in the real world there are those that have an affinity for the technical side and those that don't. Personally I like tinkering a bit, but mostly just wings and gears. I don't have time to mess around with toe and camber and dampers. I wouldn't buy a setup but I'd definitely borrow someone else's for a hotlap.
Yeah, that's a very fair point John - and we definitely do see some sharing of setups, particularly within teams. It's a big undertaking, and being able to have a few different drivers having a crack at it definitely helps!
Hey Chris, love your videos! But in the future, can you read out the questions instead of just putting them on screen? I often listen to your videos while doing other things when they are narrative of nature and the visuals aren't the main point.
Pretty please?
Actually, that's a really good point. Noted!
Agreed
Yeah! Same here
Yes please!!
After 240hrs on ACC and many of which were trying to figure out set ups, I got the Coach Dave set up for Kyalami+Porsche. Battled with it a bit in the beginning but used it in my weekly local league race after a couple hours practice and not ashamed to say it was well worth it. CN ratong went from 87 to 98 and the car felt the same if not better towards the end of 85mins.
If it involves cash, then it will ALWAYS be a heated discussion
Heh, yeah very fair point!
@@ChrisHaye Once I get time to be on a league I'll buy some, I can't use my few hours a week to tweak a gazillion settings on 4 different Sims! Imagine the time you need to have AMS2, ACC, F1 2019 and AC with optimal setups!
Which is getting more riddiculous, when you think about what even middle class simracing hardware costs.
there's a quite annoying high pitched sound in the background which makes it difficult to watch the video for me. just wanted to let you know, love the content tho
Dang. Not sure where that's appeared from. Can't hear it on the master file. Maybe it's a conversion thing?
@@ChrisHaye I hear it as well, Do i need to see a doctor for hearing sounds that aren't there?
@@debozebever Nope, I can hear it too. For some reason, it's not there in the intro.
@@ChrisHaye the sound cuts out during your intro, so it must be connected to the VO!
@@ChrisHaye it looks it comes from the left side only
Great video Chris, totally agree. A setup isn't everything (you need to master car control before thinking a setup will solve all your problems), but a good setup does make a big difference and ultimately it comes to lack of time and wanting to know your setup is at least competitive - for those reasons it's worth spending a small amount of money on a setup.
"Tell me how I'm wrong in the comments."
Well Chris, you're wrong because... er... ok, you're not wrong: not in the least.
Great video!!
Heh, thanks James :)
That’s part of the interest in sim racing for me. I love testing my own car setups to improve lap times. I have a reasonable grasp on the basics to improve the way the car handles. A good setup makes all the difference.
Good vid, Chris. Attempting to set a car up - per track - can definitely be a difficult experience if we don't know what's what. In fact, it can turn into a real mess which eventually reverts back to default settings through frustration. I've only changed ride height of a car in ACC and that's as much as I'm prepared to do. It dropped my laptimes but I'll never be an Alien. Of course, on the flip side, gaining tenths by fiddling with bump stops, etc. Is hugely satisfying I should imagine.
Great video, and I agree for the most part :)!
This became a big BIG drama in GT Sport recently, but that was because the setup being sold was 50 Euros for 1 track & car, so I think, honestly, it depends on the game. I think Coach Dave Setups are fair, properly done and relate to real life vs some games where setups are unrealistic. If prices ever rose to that amount, or that sort of amount I'd start to disagree with selling setups, not sure where the peak price is mind you :O!
Ah interesting dude. I did see a bit about the GT sport thing, but didn't really read into it properly. At those sort of prices, the 'pay to win' argument holds a lot more weight, that's for sure!
I used to make setups for friends when i had lots of time for practice and since i was quick i loved helping others improve by creating stable fast setups. It just requires endless time something i no longer have so iv been considering Coach Daves setups as i just cant get ACC to work. Im glad people offer this to us and appreciate the time they put into it as worth the money.
I purchased all of the Ferrari setups from Dave, and I think you hit all the major rationalizations for that in the video. My main priority was to eliminate setup as a variable that could be causing me to be slow. With the setup question eliminated, all of my focus goes to the factors I can control. Beyond that, I also wanted to support Dave, who is a tremendous resource for people getting into sim racing who are looking to learn racing approach and strategies developed in real life that translate to sim racing, rather than the opposite, i.e. I'd rather learn how to drive in a realistic manner, even if it's slower than the full-alien.
But I like picnic bars... 🥺
Someone has to ;)
So, based on this video I actually bought a CDA set for the 720 GT3. Because it makes a good point: I like to "roleplay" as a driver, not as team engineer. I can read Motec enough to find my driving mistakes, but have no confidence in changing anything more complicated in the car dynamics. So getting a setup from my "paid engineer" just seems to mimic real life, and allows me to curse my driving instead of the mechanics.
And David has been a huge asset to the ACC community from the start, so he and his crew deserve some beers anyway.
It's actually interesting because exactly the same thing happens in our Trackday Motorbike racing community. People will pay quite a solid amount of money for someone to set up their suspension, and it turns out that even "cheaper" standard factory forks and rear damper can provide a ton more grip if they are tuned to the rider in question. Same idea: We're racers, not engineers.
I don't buy race setups, but I do buy a lot of things that have created by others to save my time (got two kids and a full time job). Nothing wrong with paying people for their expertise.
Kind Regards,
A fully functioning adult
I think there's nothing wrong with buying a setup, and it's a choice a fully grown adult can make on their own.
I made an ACC setup video a while ago and it gave me some insight into the expectations of people who don't really know all that much about setting up a car.
Some people really think that they're consistently in last place because everyone else has a better setup. I hope these people don't buy a setup thinking it's a shortcut to success.
Anyway, great video as always
Sounds spot on to me. I just...don't have the time to be making setups working a 9-5 job and sim RACING is my hobby, not sim "need to make a setup for every new week". Kudos to those who spend the hours making these setups, just know I'm happy to buy lol
Yeah, that's where I'm at. I pretty much do sim-racing full time now, and even then I don't have time. Though, that could probably be explained by CZcams ;)
Yeah. I started sim racing last year and due to the lack of time, this is now my primary hobby (as in playing games. I still go hiking and cycling.). I drive only McLaren 720S in ACC and even didn't learned all the tracks. But if I will ever get to the level where I can compete in 1h races with podium in mind, then I'll definetively buy David's setups because I watched a couple of his livestreams with "his engineer" and saw how grueling process it can be. I don't have time to check if 1mm ride height difference is faster 0.05s in one corner or one click on some dampers gives me better exit in turn 8 on the track. I don't see "money" problem. Time is money or money is time - you choose. If you want to keep the money, then setup your car for the track yourself. If you want time, then buy them.
My only wish is if setups would come with some explanation behind the thought process of a particular setup. Like: 720S have lift off understeer problem on Maggotts-Becketts and THIS was changed to counter that. If you have X problem try with softer/stiffer suspension. Not a whole page but a couple of pointers where to look if you want to further fine tune the car to your driving style.
As a subscriber to VRS (and previously to CSS and PDS) I can say that most of the time they are better to drive but on occasion the baseline with say a different gear ratio can be as good. However for endurance racing, you want to be as good at the end of an hour stint as the beginning. That and they now do safe and pro versions of each set up...usually the safe is more driveable for lower level plebs like me.
I am just getting into sim racing. I have no problem with purchasing setups. One of the reasons is I want to know what the car feels like with a proper setup instead of the stock setup. If I am constantly spinning out on the pro setup and not on the stock then I know that it’s my inputs that I need to work on. I want a decent baseline that is close to competitive more than a stock one that is on the safe side for the casual gamer. I also feel that a pro setup will be more educational on tuning setups once I get to that level of racing. A car closer to the edge will show the changes more readily than a safe stock setup where big changes will be needed to see any effect. Finally I want to get past the horrible trials of learning how to setup a car while at the same time learning the feeling of the car. Some professional drivers don’t know how to setup a car, they let the engineers do that, but the best ones know exactly what is needed. If a paid setup will get you in the ballpark so you only need a little bit of tweaking, that means more racing than someone who doesn’t even know where the ballpark is.
YOU ARE NEVER WRONG,CHRIS!! Fun topic, thanks
Hardware can make a huge difference for setups as well as FFB settings.
Create a setup using a DD2 wheel and Heusinkveld pedals then hand it to someone on a G27. Yes they might be half a second quicker but they won't reach the full potential of the setup if they can't 'feel' what the setup creator does.
I personally 'feel my way' faster rather than use other people's setups, but I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll never be an alien.
Just bought a G920 and am extremely happy. Thanks Chris
It's going to be a long one so hold on tight. Rarely I comment on something but this is a very good video and I was sceptical that you would miss some points, you covered all most all that I could think of but here's my thoughts.
1. By bringing more business/money into the Simracing community (wich is small as it is) we are dividing the community more, when I started in 09' it was all about helping each other for free lately everyone is trying to make a $. Work should be payed, offcourse, but I'm thinking of the big part of the Simracing community that has low budget and they feel pushed aside. I can afford to pay for a setup if I need/want but my skills are average so again in this small community the guy that I beat in Q/race might feel putoff because he didn't have the setup... Hope I made some sense
2. In all honesty and from experience with all sorts of aliens in different sims always I heard that a setup will be a difference of 1.5sec/lap at the extreme end of the spectrum like f1/prototype car on a technical track and less and less going down, like in tin tops/fwd a good setup will be 0.5/7 depending on the sim/track, practice makes perfect and money can't buy practice.
3. I feel (I might be wrong) that some people want to profit of the guys who are not skilled /have time but also don't know the above point and they think that after 20 laps with a purchased setup they'll be faster,wich might be true but it's a false positive..
4. I think there's a big dive video for setup and how each drive likes something different but similar lap times, I agree that in rwd a looser setup is faster but I know drivers, fast ones, that have neutral or even understeer setup and they as fast so... I don't know, whenever I shared my cray setups some liked it some not but they were free and had a big disclaimer (with this setup I and I feel comfortable if you don't, I'm sorry) I don't know how to explain this point...
the thing is, if you type in "racecar setup flowchart" youll see that there are certain changes that actually affect grip, traction and overall speed, and there are things that only change the balance of the car without actually making it slower, so its likely that the really quick people build a fast setup, and then adjust it to their liking from there.
I’m an elite athlete with a job and train for my sport 6 days a week and 4+ hours each day with 8 hours work six days on and one off. Needless to say I have little time for my racing hobby and buying a setup does make a difference when I can basically jump in and work on my driving. Racing teams including kart racers hire individuals to come up with setups. It’s an easy decision for me.
I'm late, but I have thoughts.
Saying "If the setup is good, but you're off the pace, the problem is in the seat" is fine, and probably true, but that doesn't help me if I have a race tomorrow. Saying "Driving styles differ, so why would I obtain one made by somebody else?" is fine (and one I've used in the past), but it doesn't help me if I have a race tomorrow. The solution to this dilemma (aside from the obvious "spend more time preparing" or "You're SOL") is to combine the two concepts. Acquire a good setup, and tweak it to your liking. This can be done very rapidly with almost any passable level of knowledge about setups.
Suppose you pick up a Catalunya setup the day before a race, and you've got 2 hours to get prepared - to remember how to drive the track, to get used to it in the car you're about to run, and to try a setup. This is woefully inadequate time to fight for a win for most of us, but it's a real scenario. What do you do regarding setup? Well, if you're running around and find that, say, the rear lets go in Turn 3 (the big right-hander parabolica thing), you might think "Oh, well it's my fault, I'm too aggressive on the throttle" or "I'm overheating the tires" or "the weather is wrong" etc, but we're short on time, so we have to do something right now. It's a high-speed corner and the rear is stepping out - add a click of rear wing, or remove a click of front wing and try again.
"But!" you say "that'll mess up the balance elsewhere!" I know it will. You're gonna be slower for doing this. Hell, you were doomed to be slow because of the lack of preparation - but slow seeing the checkered flag might get you points - burying the car into a wall at 150 mph won't.
This is my level of tuning: butt-tuning. Despite tens, maybe hundreds of hours dedicated to learning how to adjust a car's setup, I am basically at the level of proficiency needed to butt-tune the car. I can't build a setup from scratch (at least, I don't think I can), but I do know how to balance a car for high speed (wings) and low speed (ARBs) corners to my specific driving style. A good setup will have the tire pressures, ride heights, basic suspension geometry, etc correct for the track, so if I get a setup that's too edgy (or not edgy enough), I like to think I have the tools to tweak it, and I can do it _rapidly_. This, I think, is the middle answer.
Really interesting topic here.
Personally I think creating your own setup, or at least working directly with an engineer, is the best way to do things. Obviously the time, knowledge and resources arguments are all 100% true, and I would never say it was somehow wrong to pay for someone else's expertise.
However, for me, the understanding gained by working through the setup process is invaluable. Understanding what the car is doing, why it is doing it, and then how to fix it is the same process you need for setup work as for driving improvement, and the two feedback into one another.
I think your argument about a certain driving style being optimal isn't quite true. Sure, certain cars (and similarly sims) require changes to the way one drives, but within that there are so many nuances of driver preference that mean using someone else's setup really can be a barrier to understanding, and therefore improvement. I agree that way at the top end everything starts to converge, but some of the fundamentals (like trail braking technique, long corner lines, brake bias and rotation preferences) can still vary enough that two people's setups are never the same - not even slightly.
I think buying setups is fine, and I think if people with the skill knowledge and time to produce them want to sell them, they deserve to be rewarded for their work. Equally those without the time should be allowed to spend a bit of cash to get more out of their (already quite expensive) hobby. However, for those looking for real improvement, both in driving technique and in technical understanding, there's only so far you can go with someone else's setup.
Thanks for the well thought out comment CC! I think the point I was trying to drive at with the 'optimal driving style' theory, is that within any given system, there is a method of operation that is most efficient. How much that 'optimum' is better than other sensible approaches is anyones guess!
@@ChrisHaye Thanks, and yeah no I get what you mean. Obviously in anything as complex as sim racing there are far too many variables to properly measure any individual part, so I suppose there's a point where the physicists and there is an "optimum". I think in the real world, however, it's a mix of optimal-ish for the car/sim/track/etc and optimal-ish for the driver - ie what approach allows the driver to play to their strengths the most. I think the Hamiltons and Sennas of the world are what happens when the driver's optimal style and the car's optimal style coalesce.
@@captaincondescending I agree. I can see the value in paid setups for people with less experience or lack of time, however, I don't see how those same paid setups can be considered "optimal". How can they be unless you're getting direct feedback from the car under the conditions your driving in at the time?! There's also the driving style element that was already discussed. Where I like a car thats on the edge of locking the rears more to create pivot for turn-in, you might like a safer car that understeers a bit more...
Love your work as always, Chris. I really do enjoy working on setups and the dynamic problem-solving it entails, but the available time part does resonate with me. Setups take a lot of discipline and care to get right, and I sure as **** rarely get them right. I'd prefer to do them myself, but if I were racing in serious leagues, I'd at least consider buying to give me more seat time to work on technique.
Hey there Chris, Greetings from the Middle East. Myself have bought setups for my iracing endeavors, Yes. It might not turn me into a Senna but at the end of the day I know that my car is reliable, and can compete. The miss judgement that every sim racer/sim racer wanna be judge himself/someone else is by comparing his scores to the best out there, neglecting the fact that it took them ages to get to where they are at the time he saw there times/ranking. In my opinion sim racing nowadays is going through what horse riding has been about all time long. Closed, private, secure, and a non-welcoming environment. I might have wrote a letter that can be considered horse-**** , however that would be a nice topic to be covered by yourself and that soothing voice of yours. Thanks for being a gentleman sim racer
for those without the time nor the required in-depth knowledge, this seem to be filling a niche that is growing ever wider due to the rising level and seriousness of competition. i'd welcome a chance to try out setups done by knowledgeable people for a few bucks. (i know u mentioned cost in a comment reply and not in the video, but i think cost/benefit should have been added to the vid itself.) rly enjoyed the video. 👍
Thanks Col! Though, I think we all know you're really an actor, playing a clown's assistant, playing a colonel!
I subscribe to a setup service for IRacing. As you said, as a fully functioning adult I don't have 20+ hours a week to sim race. I get barely enough time to do reasonable practice and a race or two. Having a base, good, tested setup I can tweak slightly is all I have time for. If that offends people that's a them problem not a me problem.
Thanks to Aris' streams I found out that I really enjoy fiddling with the car intestines and seeing the effect, so at this point buying a setup would be me paying money to _not_ do something fun. But, at the risk of being disqualified from the Internet, I wouldn't bash someone who doesn't feel the same way about it.
The only potential danger I see in this is if the market becomes significant enough, we might see games with artificially limited setup options for players in order to sell commercial ones. Ubitronic ActiArts & Co is not planning anything on the sim scene I hope.
Auto calibrated setups would be great too with a few quick answers on how the car handles vs your own driving style and then the game auto adjusts versus what you said u need fixed. Then its their problem if it was their driving that caused the issue
There's a reason we use money, and have done for centuries, because it provides a measure of how valuable a product or service is! If you want something valuable you have to sacrifice for it: 4 goats, a fiver or 4 hours of your time and effort. Valuable shit usually isn't free. So if you want a good setup, round up your goats, check behind the couch cushions for a few bob, or get researching setup engineering for an hour a day. Sorry for the rant 😂
I started using VRS and it made a massive difference in how well I was driving. It wasn't the setups that made me that much better (though they certainly helped). It was adding in at least an hour of practice before joining a race and comparing my telemetry to the pro driver's lap in the same exact conditions. I went from 2k to 4k iRating pretty rapidly.
Good discussion, and you defend your points well. So far, I have not done online races, but if I did, I think I would be attracted by a fixed setup event. I would prefer to make it about driving skill, rather than technical skill.
First time comment, I thought your take on this subject was dead on. I've been sim racing for about 5 years now. Had great dreams of driving into the spot light. And after a year I was killing it. Then disaster struck. The "That's Racing" Murphy's law hit me just as hard in sim racing as it does in real racing. I did a few hardware upgrades and Murphy's law started kicking my ass. By year four I had gone from one of the up and coming stars to Rocky the Racing Snail. Chasing the Ghost in the Machine took up all my time as I changed one by one every part in my PC trying to fix random black screens. I finely discovered my X79/i7 had developed a conflict with NVIDIA GPU's. After a change to the ROG STRIX Z390-E, i7 8700K, DDR4, M.2, and a lot more the black screens where gone. But Murphy's law was far from over. I found that I was on average 4 seconds slower, in every sim, driving any car on any track. That kind of thing had to be in the seat, right? 99.9% of the time, ya it had to be me. At some point while upgrading I had switch from Logitech G27 to a Thrustmaster T500RS. Some very small q's in trouble shooting pointed to the Wheel. LOL have you ever chased the timing on a car with a bad secondary winding in the coil? The main board of the Wheel had some of the worst soldering that I've ever seen. So most of the time my inputs had a slight drain due to soldering and Caps. Time for another upgrade, the last upgrade if this does not work. A lot of money spent on new Fanatec gear. Finely, Murphy losses and I win. That brings me to my point about your video. I knew you could share car setups in say Project CARS 2, but buying Commercial setup? What? Where? sign me up. When I drove a real race car, I did not do the setup. I have a very basic understanding and that's it. So, why should this be any different? This was one of the best and most informative videos I've seen. But I must ask, Where do I go to buy commercial setups for iRacing, Project CARS 2 or the new Automobilista2? I could really use a point in the right direction. Thanks
I'm not doing any AMS2 or PC2, but for iRacing there are several "setup shops", so I'll just be naming a few for you: Virtual Racing School (VRS), Pure Driving School (PDS) & Craigs Setup Shop (CSS)
You have noise above 14k, high cut should do it. Sounds like a faulty XLR 🙂
Great video as always!
Feel very targeted, sat watching this video in my tank slippers and felt very attacked 🤣😅 great video as always Chris
"Tell me why I'm wrong", I don't think I can. I've bought some of the setups from CDA for several reasons. Whilst I'd like to think I've got the skill to fiddle with setup and get it where I want, I don't have time to run 100s of laps a week for a series to do that. My pace has improved at some tracks but the very few I've spent a lot of time at I didn't see any difference in qualy pace. Race setups however are definitely better at the end of the stint than I was able to do. The other thing with the time limit is something that was only lightly mentioned, with a setup you know is good every lap of practice you do is absolutely focused on you and what you're doing and not wondering if I need to change something on the setup.
Good point dude - when you're not worrying about the car as much, you have more spare mental capacity for the things that actually matter, like plotting revenge ;)
Very interesting, I'm starting to do 2hrs races with 60min stints and the difference on a good setup makes that the last 20 mins the car continues to consistent and your lap times don't fall by 6 seconds, that's the huge difference, I can't even imagine what a good setup difference in a race with 4 hours stints.
Where do you buy your acc setups CH? Want to support the guys that really put time and effort into setups and definitely not looking for freebies, let’s support the guys that earn it. Great video😀
Go have a look at the Coach Dave Academy website. Great group of drivers there with what I think are value for money setups.
An excellent video ... thoughtful and insightful, as always. Thanks, Chris. I have been sim racing since first purchasing GPL in 1999, and have been tweaking my own setups since then. I have to say, the advice (and setups) provided by the awesome GPL community have always helped me improve, either in speed or consistency.
I love ACC and, thanks to Aris.Drives videos and his explanations on physics on the ACC blog, I have been able to develop sound knowledge and useful setups. I now also purchase setups from Coach Dave, developed by James Parker, and then compare them to my own. I have found the suspension settings to be most useful as I simply do not have the know-how to make the best decisions with regard to wheel rate, bumpstop rate and range for each track.
I race every single series in iRacing with time permitting. It makes it quite literally impossible to not buy car setups. Sometimes I only have about 15 minutes worth of pre race warm up. Generally always in top splits for the series I race. Also the service I prefer is VRS since they are stable but more importantly the track tutorials and analysis if needed for the last second I need to shave off.
2:40 is the main reason I thought of for the reason I buy sim racecar setups. It removes any element of doubt that that is the setup that is keeping me from achieving a fast enough lap time. That’s a big reason I like fixed setup races so much, but another reason I have bought setups. I can focus on my driving and not blame the car setup for my partially adequate Lap times.
I am a Pro Am driver at best, I have watched Chris videos on setups and I've done my own setups for a while, it does take hours of time without any data, just relying on the feeling of the car, sometimes not knowing if its my setup making me faster or just the time on track making me faster. After Purchasing setups for the same car i was doing my own setups on i could feel a huge difference in quality , the car was so much better on a purchased setup. You are paying a small amount of money for someones time and knowledge in a product. There is nothing wrong with that, i charge people for my knowledge in what i do. I've spent more money on stuff that bring far less value.
Well, you basically covered everything, but biggest motivation is the time. I work full time, wife, a one year old, friends, family. How to find the time for 1 setup a week in Iracing. Let alone 5 or more series. So I'll take a PDS, and make it drivable using your Assetto Corsa setup guide. Which could use An update 😉. Anyway, a late congrats on the little one! Cheers
I thought this video was about Sim Rigs from the thumbnail, and was pretty confused for the first half of the video. Figured it out eventually.
Hey Chris! SO I'm going to go a different direction with this. I think that especially with surge in popularity for sim racing, that it's on the developers to make it easier for people to play with their setups. I feel like most new people to sim racing, probably look at a setup screen and go some degree of cross eyed at all of the options. The original rFactor is the only sim to make playing with setups, user friendly. Remember the Easy Setup Sliders? That was amazingly simple, and something I'd love to see other developers steal for the current batch of sims.
I’d consider buying a commercial pro setup to see if my setups are any good. I like to think I have a good grasp of how changes made in settings would affect the car but without having a pro around to ask, comparing my effort to a pro setup I believe would be quite useful in my case as a tool to help me better understand the whole process.
cool video however on another note there is an ear peicing high pitch noise the whole time - maybe need to check recording device or something
Personally, I like to mess around with set up because I enjoy it. If you don’t, that’s fine go ahead and buy a set up. But if you are like me, and like the tuning aspect of sim racing almost as much as racing, then build them yourself.
3:33 Chris Haye explaining my driving skills.
And I thought it was just me!
Hi Chris,
As long as I can't squeeze out everything out of car and track with given setup (except some brakebias/diff preload/aero balance tweaks, I drive ACC) I don't wanna spend money for a setup, may I get a bit faster, but then this only covers my lack of skills
Of course, the temptation is high to gain time for some money
I'm curious how many people pay for that "magic setup" hoping to be fast as those "pro driver/aliens" and get disappointed when recognize that the biggest factor is still skill, not setup
As always a high quality video production!
Buy or DYI....it dont matter to me. It all comes down to the cheeks in the seat. I personally enjoy tinkering and making the adjustments to suit my driving style. On the other hand, purchasing your setups saves time that can be used to practice etc...
i would add, if your in a league, a better setup could mean major championship standings gains, im in a rfactor 2 league and the battles in the standings are mega close.
I am technically challenged, so have been very curious about buying a setup when i finally get a rig.
My only concern was with regards to my driving style suiting the particular setup, so thank you for this great video
I must be going deaf I don't hear the high pitch noise everyone's talking about., i have no time to make setups. I use default most the time. But im slow and never up front. I'd consider buying some if I thought it would help
Must be a CZcams randomised hearing test!
it might also be your headphones dont have a higher frequency range or if you are older, your ears might not hear as high pitched noises
Yeah, my tinnitus must be louder than the high pitch noise cause I don’t hear it either
yo chris, there is a high pitched noise in the backgroud
Dang. Not sure where that's crept in. Sorry guys!
@@ChrisHaye Yo Chris, there's an angry, rumbling noise in the background.
Its hard work but i find it rewarding to not use other people setups
Althoug i would look to see what they do different
It does give you a bit of perspective
But i cannot achieve the times they post with their setups
I tend to lap faster with my own even if it does take time
A setup will never be perfect and there is always a bit of tweeking even if purchased
So in my view i woulf not buy a setup but rather would want to anderstand whT setting does what on theire own and in conjuntion with other
Good job on the channel and always good info
Keepit up :):):)
I just took an heavy sleeping pill and I'm so high that your head bobbing when you talk is wierdly calmly which makes me trying to fight my high/sleep very hard
I bet this isn't the sorta comment you yousually get.
But since I'd rather stay here and watch all high than go to sleep which is why I took the sleeping pill in the first place should tell you something.
Good video
I use VRS.... no way I have the skills or especially time to get my set ups dialed in from scratch on my own... the wife already thinks I spend way to much time on the sim without having to develope and test my own set ups lol...
I find the VRS set ups for me are pretty darn close to spot on... in a 10 minute test session on the iRacing base set up, then 10 minutes on the VRS set up I usually can easily see half to almost a full second improvement on lap time...
Sometimes I don’t need to tweak VRS at all and sometimes I make small adjustments the the general balance of the car (take out a little over steer usually, sometimes add more oversteer).
That combined with the lap videos and get to compare telemetry side by side is a huge help (yes I know about and also sometimes use iSpeed). I’ve only been on iRacing about a year... only have been using VRS for about a month, and since using VRS I can usually get within a second of their “target” lap time... before using VRS no way I would even come close to being within a second of their lap times.
I used to be in the camp that wouldn’t pay for this sort of thing, now I’m in the other camp...
And I’d rather have VRS for $10 a month than Netflicks anyways! Lol
The ones that say it’s wrong to sell setups are just pissed that nobody would buy their setups.
Sold. I'll try the Aston set up. I can consistently lap that car and I am excited to see if it can improve my times.
Another thing to worry about before diving into the world of sim racing!
3:33 wow ... I wasn't expecting that 🤣 I was genuinely shocked
For me it depends on the setup as to whether or not it was worth it, some of the paid setups I've used have been absolutely horrible and required some massive alterations in driving style to not die at the first corner
Yeah, it's interesting watching the control inputs of some of the pro-drivers using these setups. You can really get a sense for just how 'on it' they really are!
@@ChrisHaye I found the PDS setups to be a little better overall than the VRS setups I used, but the coaching you also got with each setup from VRS made the value much greater, even without using their setups you can use the videos to get the best out of each car
I'm really not opposed to the notion of buying setups, I just know that the setup isn't the limiting factor in my laptimes at the moment.
I just use the aggressive setups (in ACC) and maybe fiddle with the diff.
it's exactly because it's aimed at the non-pros that it's an issue. No other gaming communities gate knowledge behind paywalls.
I personally sell them on eBay and make a decent amount of money from it the main reason I find people buy it is most likely because they cba and don’t always know what they should do
Personally I’m less set up focused and more driving style focused. Still relatively new to it seeing as I transitioned from pad to wheel in the last 9 months so paid set ups are of no use to me and would rather focus on the picnic aspects of my pace rather than the tweaked parts
Yeah, totally reasonable. And, I think that's going to be more productive for most drivers to be honest.
That's the way to go. Until you are 100% confident on your driving skills, there is no need to focus on setups. This is something many people fail to realize.
A lowpass around 13kHz would be great haha
Nice content anyway ^^
when Chris drops an F-bomb, you know he's being serious :O
Haha - I try to limit myself to once per season ;)
Lockdown + more time on sim rig + curiosity got the better of me. Bought a pack from Coach Dave for ACC. Did find a little time but nothing like the claims you'll here some people make, which I've never bought into anyway.
Yeah, my peak pace wasn't much quicker (if at all) at some tracks, but I did find my long run pace was much improved.
I have about a 100 hours in ACC and about the same in AC... I still don’t think my driving is good enough to begin tuning because I don’t think I’m that fast. But I would buy a setup and reverse engineer it.
Wayyyyy another chris Hayes video yuppapppp
This may not be true for everyone, but instead of buying setups for cars, how about investing in yourself and subscribe to one of the many driver academy courses available for sim racing. This will make you a better/faster driver than just plonking down cash for a setup. Plus it's a skill you can take from car to car.
Not touched in the video (for obvious reasons): 25 quid for one car on all racetracks from Coach Dave is a steal. And they will even adjust for free if the game physics will change to some extent.
@Coach Dave Academy: Bring up rain setups for another 25 quid and count me in.
Yeah, honestly I didn't really want to turn the video into an advert. I reached out to Dave because a) he's a great guy and b) I'm good mates with some of his team, so it just made sense :)
@@ChrisHaye Any hint of critizism in my original post Chris. Sorry if it came across like that. I follow Dave on his channel, was quite excited that he and his team putting a lot of effort into making my game experience in ACC even better.
Each to his own...but when the set ups cost more than I paid for the Game itself....then they feel a little over priced to me...
I have far more work to do on my own driving before I start worrying about getting top setups, but I still don’t think buying one is something I’d do (even if I wasn’t broke). However, if someone wants to, they have every right to, and knowing how much time goes into them, the cost per hour of work is really low.
i find it easy to setup cars in rfactors 2 , opposed other sims, just purely down to how good the physics and tyre model is.
The problem with paid setups is that it's a different proposition to paying for content because it's tweaking values that are already part of the game. It also further increases the gap and barrier to entry. How much further do we really need to monetise this already expensive hobby? iRacing is already at the point where the cost is prohibitive to a lot of people (and honestly, terrible value for money when it comes to simulation value), hardware is already a limitation for a lot of people, are we seriously trying to legitimise the introduction of that to non physical aspects of the game as well? At what point is there a functional difference between paying for a fast setup and paying the dev for a premium car that is .2 seconds faster a lap? The relationship between spending and performance in rl motorsport is a NEGATIVE thing that the FIA is trying to get rid of to increase competition, the last thing we should be doing is trying to introduce it to sim racing.
Paying for some guy's perks/attachment combo on COD seems ridiculous, this is equally so.
the point is these sims should come with a good out the box setup i think only probly ACC does this, other sims seem to make amazing games and physics then just throw the cars in with the worst setups of all time, this day and age all games should have a setup download feature like PC2 and F1 series easily save a ghosts setup from time trial so you know its quick and you can work off that for your style, would i buy a setup no, do i have time to sit a learn how to make a setup from scratch no, for 99% of sim racers there should be easy access to a 95% good setup which at the minute there just isn't, do i think its wrong to sell setups no, if people want to buy them then they can, but will it really make the average sim racer faster than downloading a setup id doubt it
I like the idea of "hiring" a simulated grew to improve my simulated race setup. just need to settle on one of the cars.
If I had the spare cash to blow on setups then I probably would - as much as anything else I'm curious, so probably would want to know whether it made any difference. On the bright side, I don't think I'm fast enough (ACC: Spa: Dry: 2m21s) to be able to blame the setup for my rather average lap times so it's hardly a loss. But for those folk who want to do it, and have the money to, and for whom it will make a difference, what's the problem? Unethical? I don't think so. That sounds like envy talking.
Nicely balanced, sensible viewpoint video, as always Mr H, and also as always, killer B-roll. Cheers!
I don't buy setups, but have no issue with it whatsoever. If you beat me on a paid setup..... well done, you were faster than me. I'll go and tweak my setup to try and be faster, I enjoy the whole setting up a car and testing it. It can be easy to get into a situation where you setup the car for your style, and I think this could be counter productive at times. Maybe I would be quicker if i had a team of experts set the car up to be as fast as it can, and then I learn to drive that setup consistently. On a whole though there is no issue here.
That's a great attitude to have imo. I'm surprised how few people have got the pitchforks out so far!
@@ChrisHaye When competition and money are involved people get "invested". I'm hoping its just a vocal minority, and cling to the hope that the majority of us are not in this camp. The community around sim racing on a whole has been competitively supportive of one and all, as in "I want to beat you, but I want it to be close and fair, so if I can teach you I will and vice-versa", much like the real world motorsport community.
I been doing set ups for some years now and shareing them in my litel Chanel, i never thoutht of seling them, up to a certain level i think we sould help each other to make the comunity grow adn inprove. Hand beter fun for hall...
Hey Chirs..
Will there be an Automobilista 2 review ?
Yeah - It's been really bad timing actually, as I'm working on a couple of other massive projects. My 1 sentence summary is this: I've enjoyed it a lot, but there's still a bit of polish missing.
Buying setups? Setups take weeks? You think in real racing they put much time in it? When you only have 2 hours of practice, and testing, well good luck with your testing program.
Be it in real world or sim, you need to learn the basics and finer points of car setups. So you now what works for you and what doesn't. If you put a little effort in it, you can adjust a base setup quickly to your needs, and skill level.
Problem is, the sims often do strange things in their models....so you need to test a little more at first. But once you got hold of the programming quirks , you will be fine.
As car racing is a team sport, maybe form a team, and get a guy that maybe is not a very fast driver, but can adjust the car so the whole team can drive it fast and with confidence!!!
Many of the best pilots are also very good engineers, fully understanding the workings of the car, and are able to communicate with their team on how to adapt the car to track, weather, temperatures and personal driving style. If you are only in for driving, and not interested in car mechanics and setups...well in my opinion, you better go play need for speed or so.
If you do not know what the influence of a sway bar front and rear is, what the brake bias does, tyre pressure, and bump and rebound stifness, why bother doing serious sim racing then?
Great video Chris... i almost buy a setup, i'm racing in a league and i want to get competitive but i don't improve my lap times, i've been watching setup guide videos, even your serie om youtube, and each videos confused me more... at the end i raced with the aggressive setup but too far from the leaders time
Hang on Chris....Are you saying that Picnic bars are completely f**king hopeless here?! Cos I'm not having that like 🤣 Love a picnic bar me 👍🏻 😂
Haha - I had to pick one, and I couldn't bring mylelf to put Bounty in there ;)
Great video, for me it simply comes down to time. I just don't have enough of it to dedicate to developing my own setups. So I will pay to have that time to race. Cheers
Then follow up of the best commercial set up providers
I don't see why anyone would be against the idea of someone buying a setup, its their choice. Personally my time on sims is so sporadic that the problem is always the nut behind the wheel!
Well honestly I think these kinds of comments comes from people that don't really have an independent life at the moment and have a lot of time to spare, I can say that because I was one of those guys a few years ago and probably would say something like that, I had lots of time when I didn't need to worry about food and housing, and even tried some Youtubing with all that free time but now I see how time is incredibly precious. It is the same argument of micro-transactions in games, you pay for shortcuts to save Real-life Time. In this case, you pay someone to save some time because you still need to have the seat time. If 1 hour of work can pay for a 10 hour of other people's work, in this case, someone with skill in developing a good simracing car setup, well you just literally saved 9 hours of your Life if you are at the same level of the setup creator.
Personally, I would only consider buying setups if I was doing something more serious because it is an investment, but making my own and tweaking setups is half of the fun of Simracing for me and definitely more satisfying.
BUT one thing that I am really against is game developers developing games with the focus on implementing micro-transactions above all else compromising the quality and content. Really would be angry if I saw Developers starting to implement paid setups themselves. Unless the game itself would go the "Free to Play" route but greed for money CORRUPTS everything it touches so it is a fine line to walk on.
I’m a pretty new sim racer and don’t have a lot of extra spending cash for a paid setup. So I can’t really justify it. I would like to figure out how to mess with the setup, but it seems like there’s many resources online.
What about prices? If setup for 1 car on 1 track costs more than the sim itself I feel something is wrong. Then there are so many variables in a race (I.e. contacts) that I think it make sense only for “professional” sim racers.
In my country is A real car turnt in A Sim rig, and Its for sale for €5000 (plug and play)
A set of setups for one car on from Dave's Academy is the same price as the full game is on Steam. And its this reason why I'd never pay.