Direct Drive Wheel - What They Don't Tell You
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 01. 2019
- Join the new Discord server: / discord
The direct drive wheel format is currently the best sim racing steering wheel option available. It's used by professional racing simulator manufacturers and hobbyists alike. Thanks in part to their relative rarity and also because they are reasonably new on the consumer scene, there's a lot of conflicting information about direct drive wheels. I recently upgraded from a Thrustmaster T300 to an Open Sim Wheel (OSW) based direct drive wheel system and found that I had a number of considerable misconceptions about how a direct drive wheel would behave, and what owning one would be like.
Sim racing steering wheel systems broadly fall into two categories. The first, are what most sim racers are probably most used to, and the force feedback is driven by a small motor, via a belt or cog drive. These are only capable of providing small feedback forces. Direct drive wheels, however, make use of a powerful industrial servo motor, onto which the steering wheel rim is directly mounted (hence direct drive). These are capable of delivering much greater forces, quickly and accurately, making them a more desirable choice for serious sim racing and professional applications.
If you would like more information on setting up an Open Sim Wheel (OSW) based system, check out this helpful guide on the Sim Racing Paddock website:
simracingpaddock.com/simucube-...
===== S U P P O R T ======
If you would like to support the channel, please consider using one of the affiliate links below & I will earn a small commission off of any sales that are made after you have used the link. Thanks for your continued support :)
FANATEC:
US: chrishaye.com/go/fanatec-stor...
EU: chrishaye.com/go/fanatec-stor...
AU: chrishaye.com/go/fanatec-stor...
JP: chrishaye.com/go/fanatec-stor...
RACE ANYWHERE (UK Sim Racing Store)
For 5% off, use code: CH5
www.raceanywhere.co.uk/CH5
===== S O C I A L ======
TW:: / chris_hayesr
IG: / chrishaye
DIS: / discord
WWW: chrishaye.com/
Business Mail: chrishayesimracing AT gmail DOT com
#ChrisHaye #SimRacing - Hry
It's so refreshing to hear someone who sounds calm and natural on CZcams, and is not yelling all the time. Good content too! Subscribed.
Hey Bocken - thanks. Heh, yeah, CZcams encourages shouting. I think some people confuse volume with enthusiasm - especially in the Gaming community!
I think too many people have not thought sufficiently about what they're going to say, nor how they're going to say it. More people should consider scripting their content, and indeed, reading from that script wherever possible. I personally would much prefer informative content delivered in a vanilla way than rubbish disguised by enthusiasm. But this upload is informative AND well-delivered.
Thanks Bobby - I very much agree with you. I understand the appeal of 'doing it on the fly', but few are really capable of doing it well. There's a reason that 99% of televised content is scripted!
Sounds like 3kliksphillip lol
Can't be more true! Subscribed.
I wish any of the sims actually simulated power steering. I'm fine with the steering in the Lotus 49 being heavy, but the 2010 Mitsubishi Lancer shouldn't have the same wheel weight. Yet for some reason people are obsessed with maxing out their torque.
As far as I've seen, BeamNG is the only game that simulates power steering.
Good point JZStudios - Something I hadn't really thought about. In some sims you can change the FFB level on a car by car basis, which to some extent approximates the steering 'weight' but that scales all of the other forces as well.
I just use a FFB app in AC to change the feedback while driving until it fits the car im in
@@ObitoUchihaisgay The issue is that only really works for AC... and maybe Project Cars, but other than the obvious road cars I'm not car-geek enough to know what cars do and don't have power steering. Generally I like it pretty soft, like every normal car I drive, I even use the Drift setting on my Fanatec otherwise it's just unnecessarily heavy.
i think iracing and a few others have this as well, no? I noticed before that different cars in iRacing feel like they have a much heavier wheel weight when using the same settings
@@NorfolkBlue Haven't ever tried iRacing. I'm not sure I'd put it up to simulating power steering as much as the different cars just have different feedback levels for whatever reason. I only say BeamNG because they have a power steering module you can remove from the vehicles, and heavier vehicles have more resistance than lighter ones.
"What they don't tell you" Implies something negative yet this video is positive.
Aaaaand there is anything new on what he says.
Your voice is therapeutic
Albert
Albert
therapeutic
? need that? Toy simulator got you running mad....
Need a real simulator or this toy wheel?
@@lucasrem WHAT?!
@@lucasrem What are you even fucking talking about I got zero words from that
@@lucasrem you missed a whole sentence as well as a whole comment section
I got throat pain. Feels like he’ll lose his voice any moment. 😂
I appreciate you taking up my precious free time. Keep the videos coming!
Heh, thanks David - much appreciated. Also, I'm amazed anyone listens though the last 15 seconds of the videos!
Honestly who runs at 100% ffb? Why would you want to? After 8 hours of sim racing you'd be pretty sore and your performance would drop off significantly. I almost feel that the people going after high torque are the same crowd that think harder to drive cars are more realistic.
Totally agree Steve. It's nice having the headroom, especially in Assetto Corsa, where some of the cars have quite subtle feedback. But, turning everything up to 11 doesn't really offer much!
I run at 85% in ac and 100 in acc .
I couldn't agree more, when I stream of 6 hours my arms would fall off at 100%.
I lowered my ffb to 45 on my tsxw driver.
One thing is immersion, the other is speed. A high torque wheel will accelerate faster, giving much more accuracy. Especially important when you hit a curb, or you lose traction or something. If for example your wheels want to align to 15°, a high torque wheel will get there twice as fast as a consumer wheel.
Every time I watch one of your videos I feel like doing a slow 👏🏾. Your videos are refreshing, superb, and crisp. I’m just a newbie doing research on the best way to get started. I’ve just built my sim rig and I’ve been looking for tips. The algorithm keeps suggesting your videos and I’m so glad that it does. Thanks Chris, you’re the man!
I like the calmness and the way the video is due. thank you !
Really good, highly informative, to the point and well constructed video. See so many CZcamsrs rambling on, but this was very well put together.
Thanks dude, much appreciated.
Instant subscription! You seem calm and very much like a real person. That combined with the way you express your opinion so clearly is just the cherry on top. The video taught me stuff, cheers!
@Chris.....you are slowly becoming my favorite sim racing guy on youtube. I so much dig your explanations and so forth on the sims and hardware. I've been racing 2 wheel motosports my entire life , and got into the 4 wheel sims about 5 years ago. I enjoy it a lot , but I still have so much more to learn. You have really helped fill in some of those missing pieces , like what this video just did. I'm running a CSW v2.0 , and want to make the jump to a DD wheel this summer some time. This video gave me some more info I was looking for. Thank you.
Hey Jeffro - glad you're finding the videos helpful. As for 2 wheel motorsport, I can't help but feel that it must give you a real appreciation for how a tyre interacts with the tarmac!
The higher dynamic range is exactly what I'm expecting from a direct drive wheel. Good to hear that they have even more advantages, so I'll eventually upgrade my current belt driven wheelbase to a direct drive one. I knew that the maximum amount of force feedback was not the point and I hoped for other benefits - thank you very much for explaining them! Great video!
I've been researching DD wheels last few months and you gave me new info / opinions ! Nice one. :)
Thanks exstrajohn - much appreciated. Glad the video was helpful.
Easy to listen to a refreshing change. I just bought my first wheel this week and am not ready for a direct drive wheel but enjoyed the video none the less.
I could fall asleep to your voice, it is incredibly soothing to listen too, great video! im going to get saving for a dd wheel
Love your videos Chris. Thank you for doing such a professional job! Informative, trustworthy, entertaining. Truly outstanding!
You offer a unique perspective to the world of DD wheels, at least from my viewpoint. A fantastic video my Man
Thanks Tim - you're too kind.
Thank you great video I havent raced iRacing for over 6 years and I was a beta tester
when the started it up getting back in and your video answerd all my questions thank you ....!
Very insightful video. The proverbial hat is off to you, Chris.
Got to say that enjoyed it so much...I subscribed and have been binge watching your content ever since. You're a breath of fresh air to the Sim Racing community.
Thanks man, I appreciate the kind words. Glad you're enjoying the content.
Thanks Chris.
Another very informative and enjoyable video.
Thanks Michael - much appreciated.
I've noticed having/using a good wheel setup improves throttle control and instinctive eye to hand movements.
Thanks for relevant info Chris -- & I dig the sensibilities (imo) your posts reflect. Be well.
Hi there,
I'm an amateur welder/fabricator/blacksmith, and I recently constructed my own sim rig, not from box section, but from tubular steel. I used 30mm pipe with 3mm wall thickness,(which everybody told me was 'over engineering' it). I packed all my pipes with sand, initially to help with the bending process, but I left the sand in to add weight. All joints are welded not bolted, wich adds rigidity, I use a car seat with it's sliding and reclining mechanism to adjust driving position. I think my frame is very rigid indeed, although you would have to test and compare to know for sure. Most importantly, it would be a very cheap alternative for alot of people. If you would be interested in trying one out, I'd be happy to build one to your requirements. If you are interested please get in touch with me so we can discuss more, I'm not after money, but I might like an endorsement/honest opinion. It's up to you, I wont spam you.
Hi Kris - interesting stuff. If you don't mind, I'm going to pin your post to the top f the comments, because I think it'll help out others that build their own rigs from scratch.
@@ChrisHaye Or people looking to build a Tornado proof destruction shelter! 30mm/3mm jacket pipe stuffed with sand then welded and bent? Just climb inside pull a thick tarp over the top and hang on tight. I want to know how much it weighs hah! Put wheels and a fire extinguisher in it and it would probably pass tech.
@@CriticoolHit would probably be safer than race cars up until 70s/80s
If you don't care for rigigity, make your own from wood & stuff. I can make you a frame, but consider deivery costs too. I don't really want to conduct business here in the comments section. If you want a frame please message me on my channel. Thanx
about 50 kgs
Thorough explanation, in-depth evaluation and a soothing voice to top it all off. Despite having watched only one of your videos, I'm definitely going to check out more of your content. Subscribed!
Thanks JollyG - much appreciated :)
Great analysis and video overall. The effort shows. Well done and thanks!
Thanks dotaleet - much appreciated.
I've never watched you before or even have a wheel, but this was exceptionally well explained. subscribed
Thanks Andrew - much appreciated, glad you enjoyed the video.
We definately need more down-to-earthers, subbed!
Andrew
consumer wheels are good to start on, you don't need it for force feed back! Guy is not understanding.....
It's not in the wheel, you need hydraulic axes first, you need the motion first, that is the big leap on a consumer wheel too,
Motion axes first, then do direct drives wheels and other prefers extra's
Good stuff my man, i'm delighted by your work
I was really looking for someone to tell me why to buy a direct drive wheel. I’m glad that you actually gave a good review of rather overview of direct drive. Now I can keep my current wheel without feeling im needing more because the features I need aren’t on the direct drive wheel. I’m getting the information I need from my current wheel and I won’t get any more from a direct drive wheel. So thanks for saving me about a thousand bucks.
This is over a year old but was great. I don't subscribe to many but yours is a no brainer. Good job.
It's an honor and a pleasure watching and listening to what you have to say, mr Haye. I too have caved for the direct drive wheel and was indeed concerned if my diy-rig (from wood) would hold... and so far.. i'm anxiously positive saying that mine can hold about 12 nm, but i tend to cling to about 8-10 in most sims, simply because i donot want my customrig to blow up. ;) I have however tried one aluminium profile rig and i was very surprised that it wouldn't budge a single millimeter under load. I'll be going that way, when this one starts cracking and creaking more under load.
One thing you forgot to mention, when one buys the OSW, it doesn't standard come with a buttonbox, or a wheelrim... or a pedalbox... (usually, i haven't looked up the package you've bought before commenting) It's a really nice wheel to have, i can even do Trucksimulator with the OSW wheel set to 2160 degrees (but, you have to take off the coiled-cord for the buttonbox, as it WILL snap in a matter of a month, so i'm actually waiting for some smart guy to make a buttonbox with a battery in it, and a dongle... a little birdy told me someone is actually working on somethign like that)
Hey man. Thanks for the comment. I think much of the problem with the current rig are due to the design not really factoring in the torque levels of a DD wheel. The material choice isn't really a problem, but the design does nothing to mitigate lateral twisting.
I hadn't thought about the USB cable issue with truck-sim - that's a very good point - and as you say, an opportunity for a wireless product.
love the insite and honesty. id love to see you do a 6 month or 1 year "long term" review/thoughts
Thanks dude - that's a good idea, I'll add it to the 'future videos' list :)
So glad I discovered this video. Thanks for the well thought out review of direct drive. Subscribed!
excellent content. Your voice is nice and clear and provided very useful information. I'm currently using the Fanatec CSL Elite setup, and is looking to upgrade to a Direct Drive this summer. I look forward to your video on your rig setup and how you plan to reinforce it for the new DD wheel base, subbed.
Thanks Chris, that was really informative, explains quite a few things I was unaware of.
Love the quality of your video on every Front! refreshing !!
Very informative! Thanks! My new go-to channel!
Thanks Robert, much appreciated.
I'm looking to get back into sim racing and was hoping to find a good quality channel with mature, well put together content. Looks like I found it!
Good information. Thank you for that as well as a voice I could absolutely listen to for hours without caring xD
Ahhh- such a sweet outro.. subbed!
Thank you, this exactly a point i have made when other tubers have proclaimed how great it is to have a wheel that can produce lots of peak forces. I want to know how much continuous forces can be applied, sustained and how quickly these forces can be engaged and disengaged. And will they fade after prolonged use? When does perma fade set in? Then, to make sense of these numbers and put them in context, I also think you should consider adding tables of comparison with all the other high end wheels on the market - the ones your viewers may be using. But like I said, good review, just too thin... Subbed, liked and shared!
You're vids are like a calm intelligence in a sea of excitable bell ends. Keep up the good work.
Thanks dude, as always.
Thanks, a great and concise video. Important information for us all, who make future plans regarding upgrading their setup from the consumer market stuff.
wow, great video. This is what i needed and wanted to see/hear. Thank you so much for this great video. +++++
I enjoyed your commentry and hope you do more in the Sim field. . Your very easy to listen to and I enjoyed your content. . Get a Alloy frame . You deserve it. . 🏎 🏎 🏎
The comment about not spinning anymore I could 100% agree. While I don’t have a DD, when I switched from T-300RS to ClubSport I noticed I could definitely catch snaps on the rear end that I couldn’t before.
Your voice is sooooo calming it’s awsome
Great content, love the professional delivery
Thanks dude - much appreciated :)
You have a knack for explaining stuff. Patiently awaiting my dd1 so I can finally find out myself. Not ready to upgrade my f1gt too though!
Thanks SlowBloke - I was on the DD1 waiting list as well, and well, now I'm not! You may be able to do something to stiffen the rig if you experience the same problems I have. It's not a showstopper, but once you notice it, it's a bit disconcerting!
@@ChrisHaye fingers crossed
I don't have a wheel, and don't really intend to get one. However, I love car games and I subscribed to your channel so that you may have the opportunity to convince me. Thanks for talking normally and making informative videos.
Very informative. Thanks
Thanks for learning me some stuff about DD!
Glad you posted the simcube link. I definitely am not ready for a dd wheel. I will get a high end belt drive wheel and spend a few years in the seat. I will know when I am ready to geek out on all the controllable elements in an OSW...in the future. Again, great vid.
You make hella of good points. Thank You!
Brief , up to the point, very informative!
Great video! Natural voice over very good. 😄
Sub earned, i like how you explain, details, calm.
Thrustmaster TS-PC Racer and love it looked at some Direct Drive Wheel but all the ones I looked where out of my price range but loved the video
Hey, I really liked your video, very interesting topic and such an calming voice. I just wanted to say that you maybe should consider regulating the bass in your microphone settings a bit. I'm listening on speakers and I have to turn down the bass to an unusual ammount to understand you clearly. Apart from this very nice work I like it ^-^
Informative, thanks!
Great overview. Thank you. ;)
Very good video as always Chris. If you find the time please reflect on how it affected your ontrack performance in terms of laptime and consistency. When I see people driving circles around me consistently in an old G27 then I doubt a DD wheel would get me any closer to them ;-)
Thanks dude. Honestly, my lap times are pretty much the same - which is what I suspected going in. I see it as a tool to enhance immersion more than a driving aid.
I love your way you explain the info out love it.
Ohh Chris ffs! Reading the title I was so happy and expected to hear about what's never told, why it is NOT worth it. And then... All good, even better than I thought. I wanted to see something negative to make me not want one. Now I have one more video to validate my desire to have a direct drive wheel. XD
Cheers thanks for the video, waiting on my Fanatec DD
I’m not really interested in this topic but you’re really easy to listen to 👌🏼
Great video very intuitive. I have a game pod rig which is about 8 years old now but still in very good condition . The wheel deck is very similar yours so until this video I thought I would have to buy both wheel and rig together . I currently use the Thrustmaster TGT wheel which is 6nm so maybe if I got a wheel it would be able to handle it and the rig could wait until I have paid for my wheel . Thanks Chris this was a great help . Keep the videos coming 👍
Spent 3 grand on my electronics (wheel, drive, pedals, etc.).. the best choice i ever made was building a 2x4 framed racing rig out of lumber from home depot. 50 bucks in materials and its more rigid than any production rig/seat ive ever tried. Give it a shot.
I welded mine together (practice before I started working on actual roll cages and structural stuff in my real car) and yeah if you got the DIY skill lumber or metal are totally worth the cash saved. And it's got a cool factor something bought just doesnt have
Lol 3k spent 7k on all my stuff
@@markcuban5915 ...and?
@@OrdinaryLatvian 3k isn't alot for a sim rig that's the price of my wheel base and pedals and two steering wheels alone...
@@markcuban5915 nice ego man
Sweet video man
Thanks Ryan - much appreciated.
Excellent video!!
the fact of the quality of your content and the amount of subs you have makes me admire this page much more due to that you have everything but the fan base so now when i tune in i have two things to watch . 1. the content and , 2. The sub counter :D
Heh, thanks Evan - much appreciated. The sub counter is going a bit crazy at the moment!
I hate it when people dont tell me about things, glad I got this video
Wow this was a very helpful video! I am looking into building a set up and can't decide weather I should spend more on the Direct drive box and wheel or the frame and seat. After this I think I'll go for the mid range belt wheel and steering wheel. Probably shoot for one of those rumble boxes to put under my seat.
Well I built my own woods rig, and does not move 1 bit. Solid as rock. Just got my dd2 and Heusinkveld pedals, and blown away by the quality
Thank you for respecting your viewers enough not to beg for likes and subs upfront and getting right into the video!
I love how some people always say equipment doesn't make you better or faster. Then other people like Chris talk about the better equipment it's always "this is easier, that's easier, i got X seconds faster", etc.
Just bought the fanatec podium! So happy I waited!
I really love the way you explained everything. Exactly what I needed to hear. Thank-you.
I didn't have a clue what he is talking about but man is his setup mesmerizing.
Thanks for this informative video
Yeah, I very much enjoyed listening to Chris Harris talking about simracing. Thanks Chris
Thanks for the video
I think this video is very relevant at the minute since the CSL DD was announced. Lot of people getting lost in debate about 5 or 8Nm not being enough or whatever.
"Hi fellow Sim Racers." That's enough for me, I heard his voice and instantly subbed.
good video mate
This is knowledgeable and informative. It is an interesting insight for me
As I also have a T 300 on a next level wheel stand and have been considering
a DDR upgrade. What I don't understand is 100+ thumbs down!
Really good work. Thank you
Try TS-PC wheel
I built a very capable osw cockpit with uni strut. The chassis cost me £60 and half a day with a hacksaw and some spanners. Its a really simple design, but very rigid, and the flexibility with uni strut makes it very adjustable and almost infinitely expandable
great content! You were on my recommendations and I’m glad I clicked
I think you mean latency not speed; torque is good but latency (time taken for the feedback to be felt) is crucial - great channel
I so extremely want a DD wheel. Currently, because of space and cost not feasible for me though. As always, your videos are excellent. You really have a knack for explaining and narration(?) I guess?
Thanks Tiies - as always. It's a big investment, and to be honest, if I didn't have a CZcams channel, I'm not sure if I'd have made the upgrade. I was quite happy with my little ol T300 :)
I've still got my trusted G27 here :D I do have that for 5 years now though.Which is why I am looking for some kind of upgrade.
To be fair, with a G27 - 5 years is just the break in period, there's still plenty of life left in it I'm sure!
There definitely is! Apart from reverse gear not registering on the H-Pattern, everything else is in pristine condition. I really think it could easily last 5 more years.
Well done.
Great video for anyone needing a fair introduction to Direct Drive Wheels. Been with my SimuCube wheel for about 18 months now, and it would be hard to go back to anything less. But I too am running on a less than rigid rig, a GT Omega ART, with a very similar experience as you mention with yours. Will be going to an aluminum extrusion chassis as soon as I can.
Yeah, I'm really interested to know if the 'damping' that the rig is providing is having any meaningful impact on how the FFB feels.
I bought the feel VR direct drive system to replace the cls elite that I already bought. And am glad that the rig which I have too could stand the power of direct drive wheels! The feel VR wheel base could go up to a torque of 15n if am not wrong, so glad I won't have to buy another bulkier rig.. It's not as rigid as other frames but I think if the power is toned a bit down it would work well.
With ACC and the adjustable caster, I am very happy I have A DIrect Drive wheel. I can feel the front tires when on edge ( this ledge is not like a scrubbing, or slidding feeling, instead it will make the wheel go from 10lb wheel force to 3lb wheel force), fall of it, the wheel goes soft, Knowing you now are on the loosing grip side, and you better slow down.,
Hey man. I agree with this completely. A lot of people dislike the ACC FFB because it has a bit less 'granular detail' - which I think is mostly chassis vibration. However, as you say, you can feel so much more useful information about how the tyres are behaving, in particular from the sidewall.
It’s weird my simucube 2 doesn’t change torque when going from grip to no grip! :S
Great video 👍
Thanks dude.
Ordered the Accuforce v2 can not wait to bolt it to my rig and race
Had a T500rs for 10 years and finally she died lost ffb and she had given me many hours of fun
So I thought right time to save hard and go direct drive
Enjoy your channel
nice video, subscribed :)
Thanks dude, much appreciated :)
Thanks to Chris for the video, very interesting.
I have been playing racing games since PS1 always with wheel, during the years I had Logitech, Thrustmaster, always medium and top market steering wheel, but let me tell you one thing. since I tested the DD Fanatec wheel I realized they are the best. Last week I ordered from Fanatec site and hope is coming soon, I spent a lot of money but it's worth it.
If you love racing games and have the chance to spend that money (900 Euro complete kit)
you will not regret it.
No pressure here, honest!! It would be nice if you reached out to Bodnar or other top end supplier for a comparison. I trust what you are saying and it confirms what everyone else says about direct drive but I like your vids and it would be great to see if there is a difference within the direct drive market. Keep up the good work, look forward to all your content.
Thanks Carlos - I'm of the same opinion, though I doubt it'll be happening any time soon. I do have some contact with a couple of providers, so it would be nice to do a comparative review at some point down the road.
Have you tried to stiffen up the steering wheel stand sideways? It seems to be moving sideways, and you could counteract this with a cross between left and right riser, or just a plate bolted in.The longer separation of the upper and lower bolt will increase the stiffness. This should stiffen it up so it won't move sideways. From the movie, it seems to do that.
You're quite right. And your proposed solution sounds great. There's a lack of lateral stiffness across the wheel-deck, which allows it to twist.
Good voice and speaker, neat and tidy. Sublaik!