DEEP DIVE Into The ALL-NEW Arctic Cat 858 Engine for the CATALYST
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- čas přidán 13. 02. 2024
- Luke takes a deep dive into Arctic Cat's ALL-NEW 858 2-stroke engine designed specifically for the CATALYST platform, speaking to Cat's engineers and exploring details of this engine from concept to development.
#snowmobile #arcticcat #snowtraxtv
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ARCTIC CAT
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Arctic Cat's ALL-NEW 858 2-Stroke snowmobile Engine
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I have no doubt this snowmobile will be everything arctic cat claims for the sheer fact how many haters are already hating.
It’s the threatened that are the haters ✌️😂😂. Bring it on. 858……
Not haters…just looking at cats history of being mediocre at best and thinking they’ll continue to be mediocre….at best.
@@rulonjjj i have owned every brand used of course from 3yrs old to 10yrs if it starts goes fast handles well and your comfortable and puts a smile on your face then its a great sled. and honestly snowmobiles have finally become subjective find what you like and become a fan boy for the brand.
@@shawnmclaughlin7418if only cat had anything worth being a fanboi over…Doo and poo do…cat? Mehhhh
@@rulonjjj like I said snowmobiling has become subjective
Considering how impressed everyone has been with the 600, the 858 should blow people away! Just wish we had some snow!!!
Scale up the AC 858 2 stroke to a 900 CID 2 stroke inline 6 just for the hell of it.
I can’t wait for a test of the 858!!!!’
Going to test ride one this weekend in MN, can’t wait!
You have snow in Minnesota? See you in a couple days!
Cat is back in the game!!
I’ve never been a huge Cat lover, but these new units are lookin like some damn capable sleds. Glad to see Cat back in the game and up to their scrappy nature like I remember from the 90’s 🎉
Well said. I had a 91 Indy 650 triple. Had all the goodies and it was top notch for the day. Raced a Wildcat 700 around 94 and watched his taillight make a gap between us in pretty short order. They’ve always been scrappy indeed. One for the underdogs!
Hopefully Cat has done something that Polaris and even Skidoo have not been able to these last few years, that is design something that will not have so many problems for the consumers to live with! Go cat!
Absolutely EXQUISITE segment - Awesome job A.J., well done👌
Cheers from Québec
Appreciate that!
🔥pretty sweet looking sled with a top notch engine setup 🔥👊🔥⚙️🔨🏍⚠️
Going to need a compass and a good map just to find a dealer within 600 miles. I can't remember the last time I heard of or saw an Arctic Cat dealer. Competition is great, I wish them luck.
Damn I miss the snow here in Minnesota.
Not a Cat guy but this 858 in the Catalyst is intriguing. As a snowmobile lover I’m just glad there’s 3 players in the big bore 2 stroke game with a modern chassis. If nothing else it’s great for competition and it’ll ensure the yellow and red guys keep their foot on the gas! Can’t wait to see what’s next!!!
Imajineva turbo on the 858
It’s time for Polaris to introduce something. They have been leaning on the 2005 IQR geometry ever since. Even the Pro to Axys is only spindles and moving the skid lower in the tunnel. Matryx is just plastics and rear tunnel section. It works for sure, but so did the original Rev back in the day. Which is a whole other thing. Their geometry is identical to the 2008 XP(altho they absolutely centralized the engine with the G4) Other than that they haven’t done a whole lot different than Polaris did to update their sleds.
@@OGReeber What can they really do!?
@OGReeber you're super wrong about matryx...
@@caleguenther8947I’m super not tho. Upper steering, spindles, and rear suspension mounting point is literally what’s different. Tear them down to a bulkhead and tunnel and bust out the yard stick….we run the biggest wrecker in western Canada. I see this almost daily.
Its great to hear how things came together for cat. I heard somewhere that after the 858 comes out that artic cat is going to take that engine and just put smaller pistons in it for a new 600 class sled have you guys heard that also? Like maybe a 650 or 700?
I snow-checked one so we'll see if it's as good as it sounds. I'm hoping it'll be as big of an improvement as the original M7 was so many years ago.
I am pretty excited to see how this new engine and chassis combo is gonna work. Should be quick!! (Think F7).
Now that’s some good info!! Thx.
Something i dont see anyone mentioning. Kudos to cat for sticking vforces on there out of the box. Been one of the biggest reliability/ performance mods for a cat since what? Introduction of the 800 h.o ? Good on them for not being afraid to use the aftermarket when aftermarket is better.
When I had a 900ZR it wasn’t a true 900 it was a 866. I loved that sled. 150 Hp at 7250 rpms and 111 pounds of torque at the same rpms. I wish they would say what the spec’s are on the 858.
I've been riding the 201 Pro X Switchback 800. Since your original review thank you very much for that. Because of that review I put in a snow check right away I couldn't have been happier. With that said I am totally unbiased open-minded to all three brands I am eagerly waiting to see what the refined revised new Arctic Cat is going to feel like under my ass,
prior to my Pro X I was riding a 2002 ZL 800
Exciting to see Cat back in the game after Yamahas sad exit. We need them to push Doo because with their massive marketshare, they are content on BNG and stretching platforms and engines out as long as possible
Great segment guys.... I have a 600 Renegade Backcountry and went for'a boot with my friend who has the new 600 Riot(beautiful machine)... I just found that checkmark above his headlight a bit odd looking... my OCD kicking in I guess 🤣
Excited for this!
Me too, I was thinking about a hydrogen fired 858 with turbo but that’s kind of silly. Imagin scaling up cats new 858 into a 930 cubic inch 2 stroke inline 6 DFIjust for the hell of it.
Well, they finally entered the competition!! The design and placement is now like polaris and skidoo. Thats my opinion.
Very informative video….well done 👍
Thank you!
Thank you
Saw a 600 catalyst for the first time the other day out on the trail. Pretty good looking machine. Looked pretty comparable to the mxz xrs right next to it
Ordered up a ZR 858 Sno Pro for next season.. been a lifelong Cat guy but bought a ‘23 Ski-Doo Renegade 850 last season due to them not changing much and I didn’t want to buy my 4th ProCross/Gen2 sled. Needless to say I’m pumped for next year to be back!
Excellent info - thank you for going the extra mile to get these people on a call. I've added this to my Catalyst playlist.
I do video calls for a living and there's one thing I insist on - I wear a headset. Yes, I look goofy, but I sound terrific. Using my laptop's microphone might look better, but the sound is so bad that people have a tough time understanding me, especially those whose primary language is not English.
or get a mic.
Thank you for the better sound request. With DJI and Rode there is no excuse for poor sound.
Considering the firecat was a laydown twin I have no doubt the 858 is gonna rip.
May I please get one of those? I can't afford it but I'll review and advertise the he'll out of it here in Alaska. 👌🙏
858 super charged is gonna change the game.
It’ll be interesting to see if we’re ever able to snowmobile again here in the Midwest US lol
Looks like a lot of thought has gone into the design and engineering of the 858 engine for the Catalyst chassis and it should be a hit. However, I don't think that servo driven exhaust valves are anything new, and IIRC Ski-Doo has had this in their E-tec engines since 2017. Regardless, looking forward to more updates on this engine in the future.
An exciting development and something to look froward too. As we know, both Polaris and Ski Doo offer turbocharged, two strokes engines, so wonder it the 858 is designed with a turbo in its future.
I was just wondering something similar the turbo sleds are about 180 hp according to cat ten percent more power over their previous 800 which was between 150-160 I think so should be between 165-176 hp then add the turbo yikes watch out doo doo and blowlaris😂
@@woodardkingsbury1648 2 stroke turbos are poo when it comes to boost and power. 4 stroke turbos dominate the mountains at 270+ hp, my modded out turbo mtx nytro is only 10 lbs heavier than a turbo 850 ski doo 153 witha hundred extra hp lol and my build is still 10k cheapoer than a brand new gen 5
@@subrosaplaysgames6759that’s why you see so many guys running turbo 4 strokes these days…
@@CalgaryDynastar there every where except America lol. They must love pistons and rings and low power lol. Can't imagine riding a low torque machine. My nytro puts out 200+ pound feet of torque on 270 hp. Everybody in Sweden rides turbo 4 strokes because they want to make back down the hill before getting a recall 😂. Never seen this many recalls on sleds before since these new 2 strokes lol.
@@subrosaplaysgames6759 Dont see many 4strokes in Scandinavia.....
Great information i know there is not much anywhere but if you guys can find snow will you be getting your hands on a 858 to test yet this winter? Not a huge cat fan but these new cats look great and hopefully they will be reliable.
We've been riding this engine all week. We'll have some editorial on the SUPERTRAX website soon. I promise.
Hope it’s fast or faster they were only 8 years late to the party hope it dose well not a cat fan but it’s huge for the industry in these uncertain times and only 3 sled manufacturers left
I'd like to see the yamaha 998 turbo engine in that chassis
No more Yamaha it said
@@Thewiruz1 okay,I got it 👍 👌
Hopefully the record-breaking crap winter doesn't hurt the spring pre-order sales.
Pretty sure the industry's bracing for some snowmobilers to hold onto their 2024 sleds for another season.
The exhaust valve is nice. It'll be interesting to see how this dyno's compared to the previous 800, Etec 850 and Polaris. I'm thinking Cat be able to pull more power down low and have better run quality than the previous Cat 800 and Polaris 850.
Big 2 stroke have tones of torque! An exhaust trapping sleeve valve would really be nice. Making up an OP 2 stroke out of 2 858 would be insane. Achates Power should get in on this.
I heard the is like a 2 stroke diesel on steroids. scale that new cat up to a v-16 2 stroke with 858 cubic inches per cyl for a tugboat with turbos from an EMD 16-710 2 stroke diesel!
The 858 is cats do or die. It has to be a home run
Not really. The other brands 850s can’t hold together more than 1500 miles. Not really a high bar set by the other brands.
@@CCH-R more on the fact that if it’s a dumpster fire cat might be done forever….
@@joshwagner5414 I wouldn’t think they would release it if it had huge issues. They have been working on the motor for years. But yes I get what you mean. But if it’s anything like there motors of the past they will be bomb proof. I’ve ran 2 cats over 10,000 without touching the engine and have my backup sled at 7000 miles.
Releasing any sled and putting out a video like this is not helpful to the consumer regardless of a brand specific consumer or someone looking to change brands. However. A sneak peek. A lot of good information. But also creates a lot more speculation and subjectiveness. Building a sled motor and designing a sled considering weight to power ratios, a motor hp/torque designed with the chassis for the motor and gearing is a great concept. Add in potential driver weight factors are specs like dry and wet weight, track and shock choices most know that you will still need to tune for ones body type and riding style. Subjectively also if its a rocket and fastest 800 series on the snow, but gulps Premium fuel quicker then people drinking at a free booze wedding reception it may not be the most desirable sled for everyone. I look forward to ST TV providing a little more for this sled and others. Specifically in the area of fuel consumption and handling. Groomed northern Ontario wide open trails versus twisting winding a lot of bush trail concession to concession riding.
Lastly with giants like Yamaha exiting the snow mo biz, pre order of sleds of late. The decline in ridership in southern Ontario and club ridership suffering. As well as affordability of trail permits and sleds themselves more are turning to ATV's/side by sides. Not everyone can afford a enclosed trailer and take weeks off in the winter months to drive to Northern Ontario or Quebec to snowmobile. If the Lesters and ST TV have any influence with OFSC im afraid that if there are not Trail Permit, refunds, relief or arrangements of a monthly or district only permit made then more and more will leave the sport. 3 of my last 5 years permits never even got put on 3 of my sleds. 3 of those years. This year the trail locally never fully opened and was "user risk" yellow. for 2 days in January and yesterday family day use at own risk but should have never been open. Its bad enough that a lot of long term sled owners are opting out.
Lol... 858, don't hate, appreciate....
I'd like to see a premium shock package and I would be sold
Any chance you guys will get a chance to ride the 858 before the end of the season like you got to ride the Catalyst last year?
Hoping to ride it end of next week.
looks impressive but will it be reliable...we shall see,good vid as usual
1st year of a new design is always a Beta Test
No snow = No new Sled
Where is the turbo,Cant see it?
Not sure where your ever going to ride this, winters are a thing ofthe past for most of us 😢
THEY BETTER HOPE IT IS STONE COLD RELIABLE RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE
💯
I can see people switching just for reliability if it is. Especially from Polaris with their clutch problems. I've read the only way to prevent the failure is to retorque the bolt at 250mi. & replace the clutch bolt at 500mi.. I don't know anyone that would want to deal with that especially if they ride often and even then it's not guaranteed. It's basically gotten to the point if you're going boondocking into the mountains you need to make sure you can afford a helicopter recovery.
I honestly can't believe Polaris hasn't resolved this issue. They claimed to have improved it for 2024 but I've already personally seen two failures on new sleds and have read about dozens more on the forums. Not to mention the multiple videos about it right here on YT.
I'm actually excited about this new AC platform and am seriously thinking of purchasing one. But it won't be a first year, I'll wait and see how the reliability is first.
They are all junk for the price skidoo is just as bad as Polaris and so on pick your poison and ride don’t fning whine about the whiners can’t afford to play in my mind
@@awdeveau its a 2 stroke, they are all ticking time bombs lol. Hard riding these things gets you 3000kms per engine lol. Get a modded out turbo 4 stroke instead if you want a long lasting engine.
@@subrosaplaysgames6759 I've had them both. I much prefer the two-stroke. Plus they're not that difficult to rebuild.
You can rebuild the top end during summer and should be fine for a season or two. But when you have the primary clutch grenade or the clutch bolt break off inside the crank within the first 1k miles, sometimes much sooner that's a problem that should have been addressed before the sled left the factory. Or at minimum a recall should be issued with a proper fix.
I'm not necessarily trying to hate on Polaris. I think they have a really great sled, just that their sled has a pretty serious issue that seems to be leaving a fair number of their customers stranded. That issue should be their top priority, finding a permanent fix, as a retorque every 250km and replacement of the bolt every 500km isn't a fix. Especially when even that isn't guaranteed to stop it.
But the bottom end is the identical dimensions as the old 700 lay down. Even the cylinder bolt pattern is the same. I understand it’s new but to say it’s a brand new design….it leans pretty heavily on that old 700. Since the 800/800HO/1000 ended up in the same chassis as the 440/500/600/700 of yesteryear, is there a possibility of a bigger engine? Even a 4-stroke?
Will that bigger prototype engine ever be brought back into the conversation or is it doomed for the shelf now that the 858 was chosen?
Them AC 2 stroke like boost and live for it! Now I’m thinking of an 1716 OP 2 stroke like a mini Fairbanks Morse 2 stroke with turbo and stuff that in something
Yes an OP would have the pistons facing each other with twice the stroke to bore ratio!The crankshafts are geared together and they spin in opposite direction and both crankcases are plumbed to the intake ports on a custom liner and exhaust porys on the other end. this is how a fairbanks morse OP 2 stroke works. So 858*2=1716 OP 2 stroke laying down in the catalyst chassis and would make darn near 400hp N/A and god knows how much with a silber turbo!
it would be a tough fit as an opposed piston 2 stroke would lay down and power taken off the middle where the gears are. The crankshafts are synced by the gears.
Ok, who is going to be the first manufacturer to build the engine right into the front suspension bulkhead. Massive weight reduction, less parts, and excellent rigidity. Even easier access to components. Who will be the first?
It will be very interesting to see how reliable these engines are and how long they go before needing a new top end.
You sound like a hater to me. I’m pretty sure they will be more reliable then Polaris
@@brucewunderlich4949 Quit getting your panties in a bunch lol.
And doooo…. Do they still get free belts 😂
Not a hater at all. Just interested to see how they hold up. Being a Yamaha guy if I ever had to switch it would probably be a Cat now, but I'll probably be riding Yamaha until you can't get parts. @@brucewunderlich4949
Looking forward to Cat coming out with a 650 to compete with Polaris.
How about a 656
With yamaha announcing their end to sled manufacturing recently it was a bit of a sad feeling that came over me..not because I liked yamaha (I'm sa skidoo guy) but because of the lack of competition and from going from the big 4 to 3..let's face it the less competition be it performance right down to cost is bad for the consumer..I always thought that cat would be the first to bow out..again lol..glad to see them coming up with some real competition! Looks to be a real talk of the town sled..guess we'll see.
Would have loved to see a bigger 600 like a 658
How will handle a turbo?
I've seen some Mountain sled videos that you can hear the turbo fluttering away. I'm sure it'll be just fine
I heard it loves some boost, I would pull the turbo off my 8v92 Detroit 2 stroke and mount it on the 858 with intercooler. The 858 should be scaled up into a 900 CID 2 stroke inline 6 DFI.
now if they would just come down in price so we can afford them.
It’s all good I just hope the fit and finish is better than years past torque bits in everything and self tappers are terrible on the cats
Just asking but wasn’t the old 800s about 150-160 hp ? 10 percent is 15-16 hp so that’s close to the new 2 stroke turbos at 180 not bad cat not bad at all
Why doesn't arctic cat put turbo on sled
Pretty sure we will see a progression of engines from Cat over the next few years. They have the platform now and engines will follow.
Can I ride this across my black dirt fields right now? Snowmobiling is sick just banging through the grass. 30000$? Take my money I have an empty concrete patch in my garage that I need something to cover and never leave
1st one to watch!!!
i like it, will never buy one but thats ok. i'm sure it will be a great sled and finally cat is back in the running now againt Poo and Doo. i'm more bummed that Yami is dead.
Make it 1000CC already lol
It is going to put the factory turbos to shame...just wait..
Is it just me or does it seem like the rider have to over manipulate the steering just to make small changes in direction?
It s a new steering systeme that change ratio the further you turn the steering
It's just you. I love my new Catalyst. It is a very easy sled to ride. No darting, No inside ski lift, No problems sticking to the trail. Ride it one handed at 80 mph- smooth as silk. The steering is incredibly light and easy. Ride one and you'll love it.
675 catylist for 2025
658 !
8 years behind the competitor
And now In first. Cool how in an industry like sleds you can literally go from oldest to newest and best.
@@CCH-R no body knows its the best. Brand new chassis and engine with lots of new problems that are waiting to be found. It is another 2 stroke so these things grenade for fun. Cant imagine buying a 20k+ sled and having it blow up on me in 2 seasons. These 2 strokes sleds are complete junk to a modded out lightweight 4 stroke turbos lol.
@@subrosaplaysgames6759 they have been testing it. Not like the other brands that let consumers test it for them. I’ve ran two cats to 10,000 miles didn’t tough a motor. My other is at 7000 miles. So blowing up isn’t a cat thing.
@@CCH-R blowing up is a 2 stroke thing lol. Most people who buy mountain sleds keep them pinned there whole life span which is why 2 strokes have terrible reliability unless your light on the throttle lol. 2 strokes are not meant for long high rev pulls because of their terrible oiling compared to a 4 stroke.
@@subrosaplaysgames6759 You are a dinosaur , nobody rides 4strokes any more LMFAO
Still getting used to the new looks and it's growing on me
3;07 shows the difference in the quality, fit n finish difference betweed doo and cat lol looks like some dudes in there garage slinging some jugs and pistons together.
Looks pretty professional to me. Maybe you could post a video from Doo to prove your point
They’re literally checking crankshaft runout and torquing cylinders down, that is the definition of quality control. Doo and especially poo have way more engine failures than cat.
@@goonridingupnorth1382Doo also sells 3x the sleds than arctic cat does. When over 50% of the market is riding Doo, of course you're gonna hear about it more
based on my experience as a 45yr veteren of riding def not my experience. ive owned a bunch of cats and they were all junk with the exception of 1. Been on doo since 09, never looked back. Their facilities make ac look like back yard mechanics
@@goonridingupnorth1382
no offense but I dont need too. owned 31 sleds in my day. AC could never hold candle to doo. They own 40 to 50% of the market.....says everything@@brucewunderlich4949
Motor = electric
Engine = internal combustion
Grow up.
They should watch the same video from polaris, there was one comment that will stand out, We build this for boost, vs cat we built this for n/a. Polaris wins the motor build video.
haha be a nice machine with a 900 ace motor in it. Good try give brp a call.
Love the sled but until it has a TURBO. I wont buy it.
How could it take 2 years to build out an 858 engine after you already have the 600? That's how you lose market share.
They clearly stated in the video they couldn't get parts to build the engines. They most likely did not want to pull a polaris and deliver sleds in April like they did in 22.
WHO CARES ! The Cat name won't be around much longer--- Losing market share in a SHRINKING N.AMERICAN snowmobile Industry means they are next to leave.
Let's just see how Doo snd Poo do next year's. Old and heavy chassis designs now lay with them.
Bet you’re a fun guy to hang around!
You should care. When there's only two brands of sled to buy don't come here crying when sleds are $35k