THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL KNIFE SHARPENING VIDEO | The myth of grit progression for a sharp knife.
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- This may be one of the most controversial subjects in the knife sharpening world. Knife sharpening grit progression. Do you need to start with low grit sharpening stones and progressively move toward finer and finer grit stones? Is it necessary for a razor sharp knife?
In this video I sharpen a spyderco centofante folding pocket knife to hair shaving sharp, and maybe beyond. With nothing more than a 220 grit edge pro sharpening stone and a knives plus strop.
If anyone knows of a good test medium, other than paper and shaving, let me know!
Wow interesting I'll definitely try that. Thanks for the suggestion 👍
OUTDOORS55 finger nail bite test works great for me or shaving sharp.
I forgot about that test. Thanks for the reminder 😀
Hair splitting.
LCO213 proof link
guy cuts himself: yeah it's sharp....
guy cuts rock: ohhh that hurts!
"I like living on the edge." Nailed the pun! 👌
Razor Ramone he got sharp wits
@@semigakpheep9791 never a dull moment
I think you've just shown the difference between a working edge and a show edge. "Knife guys" don't know the difference. For 95% of everyday tasks, a 5 minute edge is good enough. For the other 5%, I can just buy a razor.
It definitely take some time to get a good mirror polish on a knife. As much as I resharpen, I'd spend a lot of time polishing. I usually only sharpen to 600-1000 grit. Those edges work well for me, others may feel differently. Thanks for watching 😀
Yup. Coarse edge is better for a work knife that needs to maintain its edge. William Collins has a video on it.
Working edge vs show edge?? Actually you’ve just proven you’re an idiot and don’t really know anything about knives. So knive guys like myself don’t know the difference? Uhh actually we do, it just depends on what we are working on. For cooking cutlery the details matter, for a wood chopping axe or utility knife it’s less strict. It’s non experts like yourself who don’t know the difference. 95 percent of tasks aren’t “good enough” for one method. It depends on the tool. Try sharpening a sushi knife on a 120 grit stone and watch what happens. He’s using a camping knife on a low grit. That’s fine. Again, it depends on the knife function. This is something knife guys, AKA not you actually understand.
I don't think there's anything even slightly controversial about this. You are 100% correct. Hair shaving, paper cutting edges can be created using even coarser grits without stropping. In fact the edge must be extremely sharp coming off the coarsest stone, or progressing through finer grits will only polish the bevels of the dull edge. I've been trying to teach this basic truth for years. Nice job! ...Ron
Thanks for the comment! I've come to this conclusion myself. Although you wouldn't believe some of the comments and messages I get haha. I've experimented more since this video and have obtained some insanely sharp edges with the 220 grit. Almost unbelievably so. I'm no expert and learn every day, and I think if I saw this video several years ago, I wouldn't believe it myself. 😀 Thanks for watching and the comment!
OUTDOORS55 You also disproved another rampant misconception- That modern "super steels" require diamonds to sharpen. They don't. There's not a steel alloy of any kind that is even remotely close to the hardness of silicon carbide, aluminum oxide, or any natural sharpening stone. As you correctly point out, it's the coarse grits that form the apex and cutting edge. Everything after that is just polishing and refining. I wish this critical aspect of sharpening any type of cutting tool would get the attention it deserves. If it was better known, it would help so many "sharpening challenged" people become successful 👍
yeah making sure you form a correct apex at the very edge is the most important thing IMO. I think so much focus is brought to super high grit stones because they make the knife look good. And a good looking edge shows well on video. "It just looks sharp". And in many cases, it is. I think a lot of people would be surprised how "sharp " a knife can be on a low grit stone. Ive experimented a little with m4 and m390. Two very hard "super steels". They do take a little longer to sharpen but nothing crazy. I do think its easier to sharpen them incorrectly i.e. they are less forgiving, and that may be where that misconception comes from. 😀
Kme Sharpeners Well cpm rex 121 get very close to hardness of AL oxide and Arkansas stones at 72 hrc. But its the carbides in super steels that are the hardest part. Vanadium and Niobium carbides are about 85 hrc andtungsten are about 80hrc which is very hard. Sure you don't need diamond stones to sharpen steels (I don't use any except for really coarse to reprofile or super fine for final edge) but they will cut steels faster than ceramics and much faster than natural stones.
Kme Sharpeners so is there any point to higher grit stones besides the aesthetic appeal of a mirror finish?
this guy has the frekin best knife sharpening videos
"razor" sharp is thrown around too much. cutting arm hair doesn't mean razor sharp. shaving your face comfortably is razor sharp. and the thinness of the blade has a lot to do with that. but i agree with you. you don't need to progressively go up in grit to say a 10,000 grit water stone to make a knife sharp. but you do need to if you want to polish out the micro scratches to put a semi or mirror polish to have less cutting friction. When cutting everyday things (ex. cardboard) edge geometry and friction make a big difference to how sharp the knife will seem. A polished edge finished on a translucent arkansas stone will cut cleaner than an edge finished on 220 aluminum oxide which will be toothy. but they both serve a purpose and both have pros and cons thats why every blade should be sharpened differently according to what its meant to do. so at the end of the day yes high grit abrasives aren't necessarily to make a knife sharp but they have advantages as to why you would progressively move toward finer and finer grit stones. btw great video!
Great comment! 100% agree. What is sharp is relative to what you're doing. Thanks for watching and the comment 👍
FoXHounDXD exactly! my bushcrafting knives I wouldnt even want (real) "razorsharp" It will get blunt faster and the little difference doesnt help much unless doing delicate work but then we get in to the catogory of tools. Where one would have a different tool for each job. Not for nothing there are so many different knives. Only my pro kitchen knives and shavingknive get to see #8000 and its very rare to need to do so as my kitchen knives see a hone and razor visits my strop. My chissels however know thats a different story. They see #4k quite allot. faster to use then stropping each time
FoXHounDXD you sound as if you've been watching skallagrim channel. on a serious note I agree with you on the Razr sharpness thing. some people have no idea
Charles Cannon ive never heard of that channel but ill check it out
Last i ever checked, stropping is grit progression. Yes its a super fine grit, but so is *gasp* 80000 grit. And i bet you if you strop over and over you will get a polished edge similar to standard grit progression.
You have shown (effectively) that you dont need to have multiple stones going up to the thousands of grains to get a sharpened knive.
It must have hurt to dull that knife. ouch! Good job bringing it back to life!
Yes..yes it did😭 Thanks my friend 👍
Woodswalker 1965 bicem
bo
I lost a bit of my soul watching that
I just use a spoon for all my cutting needs
I just discovered your channel and am super impressed. For me, there is something really special about a ridiculously sharp knife. Probably because I don't own one. Sharpening by hand is a real art, something that's learned by lots of practice and you clearly have tons. I'm going to sub too.
Thanks for the comment 😀 I have practiced a lot, and been sharpening for a long time. Although, freehand sharpening is a lot easier than most people think. With the right stones and strop most people can get a decent edge after their first try. With proper guidance that is. Thanks again for the kind comment! And thanks for the sub, I really appreciate it!😁
Don't do this at home kids... Great Video.. Start to finish on a 220 grit impresive. I am wasting a lot of time running through 5 or more grits for user knives. Someday I will learn to freehand on a brick. : ) Thanks again.
I was convinced a few years ago when I watched someone sharpen a new broadhead (with no edge bevel) to shaving-sharpness within a couple of minutes using nothing but a file.
You are right that you can go from super dull, to super sharp with just a coarse grit stone (belt) and a strop. But what I've noticed is that by doing at least a couple of grit progression steps before stropping the knife, both the paper-cut test and the shaving test are done much cleaner/smoother. You can see, hear and feel the difference in smoothness during the test cuts.
I agree completely. With my course diamond sharpener, I can get a knife sharp enough to shave with. With the finer stones, you're basically polishing or honing the edge; removing any microscopic rough pieces of metal on the edge. While this is nice, it's definitely not necessary.
I think you do get a slightly different edge when you go to a mirror finish. I don't know if I would call it a "sharper" edge because I think to toothy ness of a lower grit edge can help in a lot of situations. I think 99% of people wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a blind test (however that would work😁) Thanks for the comment!
Most pull through sharpeners also have a fine side because they leave a pretty terrible edge with just the carbide side. And as for the cut with a sharp vs dull knife "toothiness" doesnt really have anything to do with that. Ive accidently sliced into my hand with a razor blade and despite the extremely low grit those ar shrpened at ( looks to be something around 120 or lower grit) I cant even see a scar where i was cut. Its more about a dull edge will tear through your skin leaving ragged edges to the cut which heal slower and worse. while a sharp cut with either a mirror polished or very low grit edge will slice through your skin leaving a much cleaner cut that heals faster and with less scaring.
As far as I know, the reason that axes and such are given a courser edge is that a course toothy edge tends to last longer since they act kind of like serrations, while a super fine edge will push cut better but will also roll more easily since the teeth arent there to protect the cutting edge.
West Coast Warriors Archive its just not worth the time to bring a axe to a very fine edge. And it isnt really needed.
You are wrong on this part "a super fine edge will push cut better but will also roll more easily since the teeth arent there to protect the cutting edge." I could explain it but it takes too much effort, you can do your own research.
Now that was interesting for someone who's not a knife guy. Like me. 😀 Thanks for showing that.
Glad it was interesting. Thanks for watching Tim😀
All I know is that grit progression makes stuff shiny and that's all I care about
Shiny stuff is cool👊
the paper test is about running the whole length of the blade down slowly to see if it catches, the thinner the paper the sharper the edge.
Great video. As I pocket knife newbie, I watched A LOT of youtube videos looking for the best sharpening tools/stones thinking I would have to buy expensive and progressively finer grit whetstones to keep my knives sharp. Had I seen this video first, I would have saved hours and hours watching all the other knife sharpening videos. This video saved me from spending a whole lot of money on several sharpening stones. Thank you very much. From now on, I'll go to your channel first for tips like this.
Yeah, 8000 grit stones are not really needed for most everyday applications. And most of the time can set you back if you were to start out on fine grit stones. Coarse stones remove metal faster and wont frustrate you buy not removing metal. If you have any questions let me now! Thanks for watching!
That's pretty cool. I'm happy to hear I don't need to use six different grit stones and a strop. Great video, that's some sharp work!
Interesting video, thanks for sharing . I use a Wicked Edge sharpener and go from 100 grit ( if I need to reprofile the edge ) up to the super fine ceramic stones . I then finish off with a leather strop loaded with green compound. My test for sharpness is taking a piece of copy paper, folding in half, making a very crisp crease, then open it up to where it will stand on its on, and without holding the paper, slice cleanly down the crease,
That's sounds like a great test! I'll have to try that. The wicked edge system looks like a great system. The price is what keeps me away. Maybe one day I'll bite the bullet and buy one. Until then I'll try and keep getting better at freehand sharpening. I think having a system like the wicked edge would certainly make a difference at the highest levels of sharpness. I'd like to find someone who's owns one and do a head to head test. Human vs machine! I have no doubt the wicked edge would win, but it would still be interesting! Thanks for watching and the comment!😀
yeah, the W.E. system is quite expensive, especially if you buy the upper levels / kits they offer.....and, when you wear out a set of sharpening paddles, they also are quite expensive to replace as I've just recently found out. ( but they do have " seconds " and slightly used set they will sell you at about 1/2 price of a new set )....if you can afford it, I promise you that you won't regret the purchase as it is the BEST system I have ever used, hands down........but I do still enjoy hand sharpening occasionally just to keep the skill and muscle memory intact. I have considered getting the Murray Carter system of a 1000 grit, and a 6000 grit waterstone as he seems to get really nice edges with those, but the wife will kick my fanny most likely, LOL.
A knife maker once told me - angle is sharpness, grit progression is edge condition. You have a sharp "toothy" edge stopping at that grit, which in some cases is better than a highly polished edge. I'll take a toothy edge to cut through a seat belt or rubber hose, a highly polished edge will bounce off.
Sharpness, is just an items ability to cut something. If it cuts what you need it to cut its sharp 😀 I agree a polished edge doesn't do well on zip ties. Thanks for the comment 👍
I find the course stone and strop method gives a very sharp, but still somewhat jagged edge. It is not what you want to shave your face (I have done this and it is pretty irritating to the skin), but for heavy-duty or outdoor tasks such as cutting rope, making kindling, or notching a stick, it works very well. The jagged edge is almost like micro serrations or saw teeth. The other advantage for a heavy use knife, is the process is fast, which is useful because a heavy use knife is likely to dull more quickly.
You are right the coarser grit gets it sharpened, but the finer ones helps get a better looking knife.
I bought my first knife about 6 months ago. A Mora 746. I knew nothing about sharpening. So I just guessed and bought a cheap 400/1000 stone and a strop for £20. Works a treat. And the knife is super sharp enough for me after a quick touch up.
I live in the UK and would legit ship all my knives to this guy just to have him sharpen them! He is a damn wizard. Lol
Shapening made easy: Best sharpening tutorial. Thank you
Point taken. Sharp is sharp, and you don't need a mirror finish to get there. Besides, I'm sure you recognize the advantages of going through finer grit stones. Edge retention being the one that stands out the most for me. Depending on the use, I imagine that knife wont keep that shaving edge for very long. At 220 grit, it'll be cutting with some sizable micro serrations that will blunt faster than a more uniform edge.. I used to only take axes to 220, but found that even chopping tools with a softer steel stay operationally sharp for significantly longer when brought to 1000. BTW, good on you for keeping relatively good form with that narrow stone and shaky table. Pretty sure I would have just dulled the blade under under those conditions.
I dont know, I haven't seen a HUGE difference in edge retention with grit progression. It takes a good amount of time to progress through the grits. The question is, does the edge last as long as it took to sharpen? Meaning, if I spend 20 minutes progressing through the grits, will the knife last another 20 minutes of constant cutting. In the little bit of testing I've done I haven't seen that to be the case. I don't know, I may make another video on this subject, and do some more testing. Thanks for the comment!😀
Yeah. I respect the rationale. I would agree that many obsess over a mirror finish for applications when it isn't necessary. My attitude towards different grits/finishes matches my attitude towards different steels: use the right one for the right job. It feels like higher grits extend the edge retention of a tool, but only as far as the application/tool necessitates.
I'm generally a two stone/tool guy, but the stones differ from blade to blade...My VG10 Delica, for example, sees a 1000 and a 4000 before the strop. Going through two stones rather than one doesn't take up much more time. I just first decide on a finishing stone then pick an acceptably disparate coarseness down from that.
As I mentioned before, taking my axes to 1000 after 250 (don't have 220) really makes a difference. Mind you this isn't a universal practice--I know many who don't feel the need to go beyond a lawn mower blade file. For myself and how keen an edge I feel comfortable with in chopping tasks, one extra stone (perhaps 5 min) means I can go several months between sharpening, where 220 leaves heads feeling adequate at first but somewhat dull after few uses. I couldn't say about constant cutting. That being said, I certainly wouldn't go to 4000, then 8000, or even higher for a chopping tool. A mirror finish wouldn't do anything for an axe or hatchet, given its use and the steel most axe heads are made of. I'll give an axe an extra 5 min for an extra month or two of use, but not 20 minutes.
At the same time, I've shaved with a straight razor that was only brought to 320 after a guy at a knife store mistakenly convinced me that a Suehiro #800 stone was actually 8000 grit (it's actually 320 grit). The chemical stone was very hard out of the box before being used and felt like a fine Arkansas stone when sharpening, so I believed him....until I shaved with it. Not fun to feel that on my face, even after stropping with canvas and leather. So I feel comfortable saying from first hand experience that a straight razor should be brought to a mirror edge, the higher grit the better.
I look forward to what ever videos you wind up doing on this. I enjoy your approach to sharpening (practical and not over done) and am impressed with your mechanics, so I'll be keeping an eye out for future vids.
So much for "I need that high dollar stone"...thanks Alex.
Quite interesting to see you only need a course stone... Great video.
thanks my friend 😀
Medium soft Arkansas Pocket Stone, Crock Sticks, and a strop made from leather scraps glued to a piece of wood and loaded with green polish from Harbor Freight….
My Endura vg10 cuts clean through cut resistant gloves, seat belt straps, my finger polishing the edge … i keep a dmt coarse/fine pocket sharpener handy for a working edge, but my go to is so damn cheap lmao
when you apex the knife it should be sharp. skipping grits CAN cause your edge to dull faster if you go from say a 200grit to 2000 grit stone (just a totally left field numbers). your ending point just depends on what you want to use the knife for. smooth 9000 grit for slicing or a 600 grit working edge for cutting rope, etc.
Yep couldn't agree more. Thanks for the comment!
Totally agree that it is possible to produce a sharp edge with a coarse stone. However, the coarser the stone the coarser the microscopic saw edge and the quicker it will break down and blunt the edge. The finer the stone the finer the microscopic saw edge and the longer it will stay sharp.
For me, I haven't noticed THAT much of a difference in edge retention, from a coarse to a fine grit. My question is, is the edge going last as long as it took to sharpen. So if it takes me 10 -15 minutes to progress through the grits, will I regain that time in edge retention.... realistically, I think it would depend on what you were cutting . Might be something to look into. Thanks for the comment 👍
You are correct in the sense that grit progression isn't necessary to get a "sharp" edge, BUT low grit sharp edge, usually, means a weak edge that will need to be re-sharpened often. The point of progression is edge refinement for keeping that edge over a greater length of time. It depends on the use and expectations of that blade...The effort that goes into sharpening some a the fancier steels, available today, is a PITA to sharpen and one would like for those edges to last and not be "weaker" from what you would get from 120-1k grit stones.
Yeah it's all a compromise. Is the time that goes into sharpening to a mirror polish seen on the back end. It really depends on the user and their expectations. I usually only sharpen to 600 or 1000 any more than that for me isn't worth it for everyday use. For others that may be different. Thanks for the comment!
Love the video. Your comment '"living on the edge" was a hoot !
Keep up the great videos.
Haha! thanks for watching my friend!
Great, simple process... uncomplicated and effective...
Thanks...
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the information, I believe I have learned more from you than the very numerous videos on sharpening knives. Thank you I can sharpen my knives with confidence and consistency. Joe
Thanks for the comment, and good luck with your sharpening 👍
You convinced me to ditch my sharpmaker and buy edge pro stones. Keep it up dude!
Haha thanks! Never used the sharp maker. The little stones do take some getting used to but they really do work very well. Thanks for watching 😀
One thing you overlooked is the type of knife you’re using, that’s a camping outdoor knife. Course stones work fine and you don’t need super fine grits. It really depends all on the type of cutting tool. One stone isn’t “better” per say, it just depends. I wouldn’t for example Sharpen a sushi knife on a super rough stone because it would chip the knife. So it depends on the situation, for a camping or combat knife? Or even a wood chopping axe? I actually prefer a single course stone.
I knew you didn't need 10 effin stones just to sharpen a blade. I think some guys just like to spend a lot of money.
Augustus McRae If you use knives professionally every day its nice to have a progression of stones at different grits in case a knife chips and you need to reshape it or if you need to touch up knives that are just a bit dull
I would say three items would suffice, 1 med grit stone, 1 fine grit stone, and a strop to get rid of the burr. anything more is just for the hobby knife enthusiast. If my knife chipped, I would send it to a professional anyway. No need for me to personally own all those stones.
Augustus McRae Maybe not but Im a chef I have 4 stones a coarse med and fine arkansas and than a double sided 1000 and 3000 waterstone also I don't have the luxury of time if I chip a knife on the job I need it fixed quickly
I can understand if you need them for your profession, but I've seen some guys use like 6 or 7 and they're not even chefs. Kind of overdoing it at that point, I would say.
Augustus McRae I can certainly agree with you on that its way overkill
All I ever really use is my EzeLap 1000 grit diamond stone and a strop. Even though it's 1000 grit I find this removes steel very very quickly and contrary to stones, it has stayed perfectly flat through over fifteen years of heavy use. I highly recommend it. Best eighty bucks I ever spent.
Never tried diamond stones, but they are on the list😀 Thanks for the comment!
Proper sharpness begins with skillfully apexing the edge with that first low/medium grit. However, for my skill level, I can get it much sharper by finishing with 2000+ grit than I can if I only go up to around 800.
I use a 180 grit with 3in1 oil, (equal passes on each side)
then a leather strop, never have a problem...same process for my wood lathe chisels…
Awsome! I think I'm going to revisit this video in the near future and do a part two. After experimenting a little more with the 220grit stone, and some different knife steels, I've found some steels take a 220 edge better than others. Some steel will get crazy, crazy, scary sharp with a 220. Almost unbelievably so. While other steel won't. Thanks for watching and the comment 😀
your method works and a lot faster than I'm used to.
I used 120 diamond and a strop but I do like my mirror like edge on my knives.
Liked the video keep it up.
Thanks for watching 👍
great video. I use only 1000 and 6000 grit stones (sometimes 220 if there's bad damage). My knives whittle hair. I think the most important thing is, read your work. check the bevel often and you can clearly see if your f'n up and make corrections. this topic has been on my mind lately too. Thanks for making this video.
Thanks for the comment! I agree with reading your work and making corrections as you go. I think that's the hardest part about learning to sharpen. Thanks for watching 😀👍
This is a pretty good vid on how NOT TO SHARPEN a knife. 1) Going back and forth on the stone is counter productive. When you go backwards like that you curl the edge over so all you're doing is wasting steel. 2) Every knife is sharp after using the roughest stone! But what happens is a coarse blade doesn't stay sharp as long as a polished blade. You don't need a whole bunch of stones, but the reason you move up to a fine stone is it polishes the rough spots out. With the finer stones you're not actually sharpening but you are honing a knife. And once a knife has been sharpened properly you can just keep honing your knife to keep it sharp, and that way you won't wear your knife out prematurely.
I think you missed the point of the video.
>no grit progression
>progresses to a fine strop
Haha I wouldn't call hand stropping on fine green compound grit progression. Not much cut with this strop. A different strop with black compound... maybe. Thanks for watching!
Chase He was talking about stone grits. As far as I'm aware of, strop blocks are not stones.
OUTDOORS55 good
progression would be like 1,2,3,4,5, outdoors55 went from 1,5, that aint progression, there are a whole lot of grits between 220 and the strop.
cando333 exactly.
You can form the apex on a brick, then strop with compound and get a blade sharp. But that is not a refined edge by any means. A polished edge will shave your arm hair differently than a toothy edge, it will pop it right off instead of grab and pull. There's a very good reason why straight razors are finished on super fine grit stones. Shaving with a razor sharpened like that would be hell.
Sharpness is established by the first stone. Refinement occurs with progressively finer grits. Choose final grit based on material most frequently cut. 600 grit is good for general cutting tasks like cardboard, 1500 grit & strop shave your arm cleanly. Note: moving from 220 grit to green strop is to big of a jump to for the strop to remove the 220 scratches, especially if hand honing. You do have a consistent hand hone technique but I'll stay with constant angle sharpeners like Lansky.
Nice! I'm sure some won't agree, but some times simple is best. ATB, Bill
I'm not opposed to any sharpening method! As long as it works👍Thanks for the comment 😀
i understand you just wanted to prove grit is not everything but you literally have to get some kind of compound to get really sharp edge after it.
Totally agree with you, I use the same stones and 220 gives a great working day to day edge, I mirror polish the edges of the knives I make just to show them off and of course they sell better, but the 220 edge actually has more bite for day to day tasks, always strop boys and girls it can turn a blade you sharpened on a brick into a perfectly usable blade. Nice video and good to see a down to earth approach!
Thanks for the comment! It's amazing how sharp a 220 feels when done properly. It just "bites". A strop is definitely a must! It is nice to polish every now and then though😀 Thanks for stopping by👍
I saw one guy use a japonese trick to get the wire off, then stropped it. He gently ran the blade at 90° to some soft green wood to tug and help pull the wired edge off. It might save you some time, I hope.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have tried that but never seem to get it to work. I'm probably not doing something right though haha.
I enjoy these videos and always learn something. Thank you.
Thanks for watching!
I've been sharpening that way for the last couple years, mainly its about your skill level and finesse. Most people who can't sharpen their knives are pushing way to hard and also not keeping the angle constant. Another big thing is in the sound, you can hear if you're hitting the right spot or not, even when you strop you can hear the knife become sharper. My system is ...keep your knife stropped and you won't ever have to sharpen it, except for accidents like hitting a rock or nail, which any heavy outdoor knife user can relate to.
Yeah I agree. I'm a pretty hard user and have to cut a lot of really abrasive stuff. Sometimes a strop isn't enough for me. I rarely use a 220 grit and just use a 600-1000. I've been experimenting since this video and found a 220 is capable of a lot more. Proper technique is a must though 😀 Thanks for the comment 😀👍
You're right bro!
Definitely going to try this technique with my ulu. Stoked!
Awesome, buy some good stones and go to town!
You asked for another way to show sharpness. Fishermen that sharpen filet knives slice thin plastic bags. I have yet gotten a knife to do that, but your "Wire" or "Burr" mentions bring it home to what I'm doing wrong. Thanks! I just ordered a Worksharp Ken onion belt machine and will let you know how that works. GREAT Video! TY!
Thanks for stopping by! Let me know how that worksharp works out!
Are you a purist about using only stones for sharpening? I don't know enough just yet but I see that some people are good with stones or belts and some like just one or the other. Just curious. PS, I really did the videos! Your intensity is intense!
Nope no purest here. I use stones because they are cheap compared to other methods. Thanks for watching! I really appreciate it!
Yeah I think a lot of us overthink the sharpening process. I enjoyed your video, will probably continue with the progression but I do know especially in the field it's definitely not necessary to bring a blade back to scary sharp.
I'm not knocking grit progression. It offers a lot of benefits at the expense of time. Just depends on your needs, and wants. Thanks for the comment, I couldn't agree more😀
On my low alloy knives I go to 1 micron lapping paste on strop. High alloy 5k grit for a semi-toothy edge. To each their own :-)
I saw a Japanese dude talk about wire burs,,,, he said gently pull it through the edge of a piece of wood twice,, this will remove your wire fast,, don't know if this is true or not, but he seems to believe it,
That works. They also make deburring blocks out of hard felt that do the same thing. 👍
This video was a cut above (sorry) many other knife sharpening videos I have watched. I just got the Lansky system a few weeks ago and I love it. I am making very sharp edges, especially after using a strop, but I am not polishing them at all.
Thanks for the comment and the pun😀! I still enjoy a good polished edge, it just takes a lot of time to achieve, and it doesn't last long under hard use. Glad you found a system that works for you! Thanks for watching 😀
when you get up there, hair- wittling is the standard, or cutting rolling paper across the length. Could also bess test.
There is a reason nearly every manufacturer ships their knives with a factory edge that's straight off the 220 belt. Of course a coarse edge like that can be very sharp, but imo if you're going to get all the stuff out and get water all over the place anyway, you might as well take a few extra minutes on a finer stone and refine the edge a little more.
Yeah I'm not recommending to only sharpen on a 220 grit. Just proof of concept. However a knife can be very, very sharp on a 220 grit. Experimenting more with this concept has changed my opinion on sharpening and what is sharp. Thanks for watching 😀
Is it sharp because of your technique or the quality of the blade ?? Can you do similar sharpening on cheaper knives Thx
This video may clear that up czcams.com/video/vJRHY3_LS14/video.html
Living on the edge o you clever clever Beaver took me a hour but i got it 😇
LOL😀 Thanks for watching 👍
He got some sharp wits
Great vid. Just shows what can be achieved with basic sharpening tools.
Thanks for watching 😀
Are the leather stuff always needed for the sharpness? Or can you just use the coarse stone?
Use a large basin full of water. Swirl the water clockwise at a fast rate and then throw in a few rose pedals. Next, immerse the blade with the cutting edge facing the current. When the pedals hit the knife edge, they should split with only the friction of the water pushing them against the blade. That would be the ultimate sharpness!
Haha that would be an interesting test! Although it sounds a lot like trying to thread a needle attached to a low flying 747 with a backhoe! It may be worth a try though😀! Thanks for the comment!
very good experiment I think here in Eire it is illegal to carry any blades as they are all classed as dangerous weapons.
"Living on the EDGE". So very 👍
I'd agree with what you've put out I usually just have to strop my blade something a ceramic stone first but not always and it dose everything it to do.
I tend to use sandpaper (wet/dry) on a glass plate. As you use the sandpaper the grit gets finer and finer. Quick, easy and cheap.
Glad you found a method that works for you😀 Thanks for the comment 😀
is the wire a burred edge?
Man, I use a $2 stone (that don't even tell the grit, which is probably 120/400) and a old belt to get my kitchen knifes shaving sharp.
thats an impressive edge for a 220 and strop, for sure. but when you say scary sharp, i think more in the lines of hair whittling or at the least tree topping, not shaving with pressure. shaving with pressure is a pretty basic sharpness test. also. stropping is refining the edge / progression.
I have a lot of videos whittling hair with a 220 grit edge just not this one. Also stopping is edge refinement, but not grit progression. The 220 grit scratch pattern will not change due to simple stropping.
Good video, I typically use a a medium grit Diamond to get and damage or extremely dull edges back to semi sharp then I work in with a fine grit diamond and then to a smoothing stone, something like a 1000 grit, then the stropping. for me works great and even though there might be a few micro scratches on the blade I personally am not sharpening it for show room grade quality. I use my knifes and like to keep them sharp. The sharpening of ones knife is how the user likes it. I know guys who are happy right after using the stones and some who have to have a mirror polished edge and zero defects. in the end it is what you want and how you want it that truly matters.
100% true! It's a matter of preference, and what works for you, and your cutting tasks, that matters. Thanks for the comment 😀
Great vid. Goes to show you don't need to spend big money for a good result
*"I LIKE LIVING ON THE EDGE"*
Ha!
You've probably got some knife nuts having a stroke out there , good for you , now I finally know how to sharpen a knife , Thanks
lol😀 Thanks for watching😁
I believe you could strop that on the edge of the wood table as demonstrated by Murray Carter.
A part of me cringes when I see you dull a knife
Me too haha
this may sound ignorant but is exerting pressure against the knife's cutting edge with a finger to get an idea of whether it's sharp or not normal?
Yes.
Going up to 8000 grit is for people that have nothing better to do with their lives. In a near worst case scenario I use a coarse, fine and extra fine diamond stones and then strop with either bare leather or with a polishing compound on leather, depending on my mood.
Haha I used to go to 8000 every time. It does make it pretty😀 It just takes a lot of time. Especially if you use your knife everyday. I usually only sharpen to 1000 and strop. Thanks for the comment 👍
There's sharpening then polishing and honing! People lump all three into sharpening, not understanding the complete method in acquiring a razor sharp edge. Sharpening grits 400 to 1000... Polishing grits 1000/8000. Anything above is fine polishing( not needed for home chefs) . My stones are 240/800, 2000/6000 and leather strop with compound( sharpal green). I can get razor sharp edges from these... The lower grit only used for respirator repair or very dull edges. All you need!
Grit progression has only one purpose, to save time when the blade is super dull. Otherwise go ahead with your finest hone. This isn't rocket science either.
*5 seconds of dulling the knife on a rock*
"It's completely dull."
Go try it.
Isaiah Rockefeller 5 - 10 seconds on a rock and I guarantee that it was completely dull
Mirror edges are 'pretty' but fragile for most practical use. I usually go 300 to 1500 on my KME then hand strop. Works for most of what I need.
Mirror edges don't last long under real world use that's for sure. Thanks for the comment 😀
Would I be sinning if I got factory dull knives (a d2 and a 400b stainless) that can’t cut through cardboard and started rubbing them on a fine diamond plate
It would be interesting to see a blow up picture of the knife's beginning and final edge say 20x magnification or better.. To get even deeper it would be very interesting to see several different brands of knives and their final edges. Showing the edge after each grit would be informative as well. See just how much the proprietary steels and hardening processes differ in the final edge. I know ones I have looked at have a pretty jagged edge from what you would think even after honing and stropping. Of course the compromise is getting a good sharp edge and holding one under use. After a lifetime with knives it is still a topic that keeps my attention. Take care. Doug
I agree that would be interesting to see. I know I've seen some pictures of a knife with a mirror polish under magnification and it still looked all scratched up. I think there's always going to be compromise in terms of edge holding a hair splitting edge. Unless some new super steel comes out and changes everything haha. Thanks for watching and the comment 😀
I don't ever see people show using less pressure on the stone as you get close to where you wanna be.then use a steel or strop. my knives are pretty sharp .I like cutting rope to check it if it isn't sharp it'll take a lot of pushing if it cuts it with little effort it's pretty damn sharp.
That is the reason why people go up grids, you could hear the knife tear up that paper. With proper polish comes finer slicing ability if needed. Nice work though.
I have experimented more with a 220 grit edge. I can honestly say that a 220 grit edge can easily be as sharp as in 8000 grit edge. It is a different kind of edge though. To say it has "bite" is an understatement lol. I think its up to what your cutting as well. A toothy edge does better on some things. A highly refined edge does better on other things. It's crazy how sharp a 220 grit edge can be. Almost unbelievably so. I'm not recommending only sharpening on a 220 grit, but if that's all you have it can be done. thanks for the comment 👍
Amen.
You know someone is into knives when they have no hair on their arms below the elbow
Where this might come from and why I use grit progression is when putting an edge on something or a new bevel, such as when a tool comes with no edge or an incomplete edge or in the case of damaged edges. I could do it with a single grit but I can do it much faster with a low grit, say 60 to shape it, then moving incrementally up erasing the last grits markings, refining and smoothing it until I'm satisfied usually at 2000 grit, like this 60 to 100 to 150 to 220 to 400 to 800 to 2000. I could jump from 60 to 2000 but it's going to take forever and be frustrating, even if it only seems faster it's still not as frustrating. Another point is who's definition of sharp are you talking about, my father is a hobby bladesmith and his definition of sharp (which is insane) and mine are very different and mine might be very different from yours. Also I'm assuming you've tried grit progression and found it unnecessary? I used to think that until I tried it and changed my mind. To each his own, I think ill subscribe and see what else you've got.
Yeah I've experimented with grits up to 10000. It does give a very refined edge. I use my knives at work all the time and I'm a very hard user. For the most part I find it unnecessary for me to sharpen to 10000 every time. For me if a knife can not just shave but actually split a hair in half down the middle, it's pretty sharp. But that's just me. That may be considered dull to others lol. Seems a lot of people experiment with extremely fine grits. I was just wondering what was possible with very coarse grits. Sharpening is a very subjective subject and I love hearing other people's opinion and experience. Thanks for watching and the comment! I really appreciate the sub! Most of my videos are backpacking and outdoor and knife stuff. Nothing too serious just fun stuff! Thanks again 👍
That coarse edge will hold longer than if you went to higher grit. The toothy edge will snag and cut what you need to cut and is good for a work knife. I only use coarse grit these days. It gives longer edge retention.
Same. I used to go to a fine polish and spend a long time sharpening. Now I hit it on a 320 grit and hone it on a ceramic to reduce some blade friction and I'm done in less than 5 minutes. My knives can break down boxes all day long and don't feel much different at the end of the day.
Nice videos. This really goes to show how people just takes things overboard. VAST MAJORITY of the time, I just want the damn thing to work. Save the perfection for the TV shows and competitions.
It's all personal preference. I usually sharpen to 1000 grit and strop. It just takes time to progress through all the grits. A 220 edge isn't pretty but it definitely can be insanely sharp. Thanks for stopping by👍
Oh god the pain watching the knife on the rock. It pained me deep inside
The grit progression is really just for having a smooth edge rather than for sharpness.
Darth Jar jar Also to minimize loss of material, which is the issue with sharpening only with a coarse grit (and if you care about conserving material, you should really just use coarser grits when you have edge damage so bad you basically need to reprofile the thing - obviously, if you dont care about the life of the blade, that matters little).
Hey, can you strop the knife on leather without a green compound?
In your "3 Tips" video you said sharpen backwards. Did you do both directions here because the dullness was an extreme situation? Or because an expert can do it but the average Joe shouldn't attempt it?
Direction doesn't matter as long as you maintain an angle. Going backwards may help you maintain a certain angle if your having trouble. Especially on softer water stones. Its just a suggestion. 🙂
what angle did you sharpen at and how much practice did it take to stay consistent keeping that angle thru the strokes. I really like the video and very interested in learning to sharpen a knife.
I honestly have no idea what the angle is. IMO the angle isn't as important as fully apexing the edge. As long as the angle is not extreme in one direction or the other, you will achieve a sharp knife, as long as the edge is apexed and the burr is removed with a strop. Angles are a whole subject unto themselves. In Freehand sharpening the angle is never really consistent due to human error. I will probably make a video on angles in the near future. Hopefully I can explain it a little better. 😀 Thanks for stopping by👍
OUTDOORS55 I agree and disagree. Angle matter if you are usin a knife to precision cut or shaving. You can hone it at 15k stones at 40 degrees per side and you won't cut anything unless you use a hammer batoning it at the knifes spine.
My guess you are using something about 10~12 degrees per side.
Another issue is the thickness of the blade just behind the edge. Centofane is hollow grind which provide less metal behind the edge making easy to get a scary sharp at that point of the blade.
But Im curious about angle because I would like to know if you used the strop as microbevel or the same sharpening angle?
Nice video by the way. Kudos.