Nothing but DRONE CELLS in the Hive - What should I do?
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- čas přidán 21. 04. 2020
- I had been nursing these two nucs along for awhile since we did splits a few weeks back. The hives were reaching a critical state with nothing but drone cells. Never saw a mated queen in either hive but and only drone cells were seen. So we either had drone laying queens or laying workers. There was only one egg per cell. In this video I attempt to address the problem. Not sure if it will work but we will see.
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Thanks for watching!
#beekeeping #beekeeper #honeybees #dronelayer #beesarecool. - Zábava
There is a couple of ways to try and fix a drone laying worker hive. One is exactly what you did in this video. The other is to introduce a frame of open brood to get a different pheromone flowing throughout the hive. Within five or six days add another frame of open brood and this will reinforce that there is a laying Queen in the hive. You will know if it was successful because they will start making Queen cells and at that point, you can tear the Queen cells down and introduce a laying Queen and they will accept her. If you just try to re-Queen a laying worker hive a large majority of the time the colony thinks they have a Queen because of the laying worker and they kill the introduced Queen. Both ways can work so hopefully the way you did it will be successful. Thanks for sharing brother.
I may need to try that technique in the future. It is basically what Rusty did with a hive of his and what some would suggest. This type of input is one of the reasons I have this channel. Thanks for the input. I am always learning!
@@brucesbees as my grandfather once told me you can learn something new every day and when you stop learning it's only because you have died.
Absolutely!
Had a laying worker last year. Did not realize it until I lost 2 introduced queens in attempts to requeen the colony.
Removed drone brood frames and added a frame of very young larvae and eggs. Bees made their own queen and the problem was solved.
Yes that sounds like a good alternative. I may have to try that next time. Thanks!
You never know when you open a hive what you are going to find. Thanks for sharing.
Linda Gray true. Not sure how it will work out but we will see.
I think the course of action you took was the correct one. I'm sure you had laying workers. Now you can combine them in a 10 or 8 frame deep and re-queen it , or re-queen both nucs. Also, I would add a frame of brood to each one. Let them sit a couple of days so they really know they have no queen. Cheer up Bruce, you sound like this has really got you down. I know how you feel. Good luck, I can't wait to hear what happens.
Thanks for checking in and for the positivity. Whether or not these bees get fixed everything will be ok!
Good luck Bruce. Hope you can save them pal
Thanks. Actually checked on them today. One of the hives is doing awesome and one if not. Added a frame of brood to the one that is not doing well. Will see how it goes.
Bruce, you have laying workers. Roll out 2 frames drone brood into a strong hive, roll in 2 frames brood and eggs. Give them resources to create a queen. Do the same 2 weeks later. Seed with new queen cell if you have one.
Thanks for the tip!
I have a similar situation. There is a queen but she was poorly mated by the looks of it and she is laying eggs and nothing but drones being raised. And the drones are worker size. Going to take her out and replace her with a good queen. Before the hive completely dies out.
That’s what I was trying to accomplish in this video hopefully it will work.
I really was not sure what to do here so this is definitely not a “how to” video. Just thought I would show my thought process and solution. For those who have had success fixing this problem your ideas would be greatly appreciated! This will help me in the future and may help other viewers who are experiencing a similar situation. Thanks🙂🐝
Hey Bruce I'll try to explain my most successful way of dealing with a laying worker. I take the box that they're in and carrying across the yard and put a new box with a frame of eggs and brood in its place, then go to the laying worker box and shake all the bees I mean all the bees in the box with one frame of old comb and take all the shaken frames back to the new box. Most of the bees are field bees anyway, they should go back and make a queen. Not a 100% but my most successful way.
Hmm. Sounds like a good idea. I think a common theme from most here is the frame of brood. My understanding is it need to be young brood (eggs/larvae in large part). Great ideas. Thanks!
I would say with near 100% certainty that you have laying workers. The workers will move multiple eggs out of a cell leaving only one. Not seeing multiple eggs just means they fixed it before you saw it. Introducing a queen will only lead to her rejection and death. The super spotty laying pattern and the fact that drones are being reared in worker sized cells is another big indicator! Hopefully Im wrong though! Good luck brother!
HERDING BEES WITH RUSTY AND MIKE well I hope it worked out. I did shake them a ways off and they flew back but who knows? Both hives were on their way out anyway. And the one 2 framer was about to be a goner too. If it doesn’t work out will chalk it up to a lesson learned. Thanks for the input my friend.
I had pretty much always heard that the best option is to go a ways off and shake the bees. I have definitely learned something here.
Thats so wronge.
How so?
I have to agree with Rusty and Mike seems it’s a laying worker in the hives not a drone layer queen. I would have cut my losses and used the frames dividing them into other hives one per colony, swapping them for bees and emerging frames to make re-splits, the bees in QR colonies will seek and destroy laying workers, If you found it earlier I would have said a frame of brood with eggs might have fixed it.
you should have plenty of queen cells in other hives this time of year, you could just swap a frame out in each, and nothing will be lost.
Thanks for checking in.
Were these walk away splits? I'm dealing with this exact issue with multiple spring splits I did and have discovered that it's not laying workers but a poorly mated queen due to a couple of weeks of bad weather after I did the splits. Once I saw the drone laying situation I searched and searched for a queen and could never find her even though there were single eggs in cells vs. the tell tale evidence of a laying worker with multiple eggs in cells. I finally decided to give up and let the bees migrate into other hives. I shook the frames out on a drop cloth just so I could watch what they did. After about 15 minutes I started to to the bees walking in a curve pattern. I watched and there she was! This tiny very dark queen that now that I saw her I understand why she was so hard to spot. All that said to suggest that if what you've tried doesn't work and the drone problem persists I'd think the new queens you introduced were killed.
Yeah I’d I remember right these were possibly cells I introduced that never got mated for whatever reason. Could have been weather. But I don’t know for sure. I hear ya on finding the queens. Not sure if I have ever seen a drone laying queen. At least not an unmated one. But it’s pretty obvious when you have one…and frustrating.
Drives you nuts doesn't it?
I had a great colony of bees, a rocking queen, 3 supers of honey. I am a small operation of 10 to 25 colonies.
One day I inspected, there seemed to be a lot of drone cells. Open larvae, 1 egg in the middle of each cell. Except for drone cells everything looked ok.
But...I could not find that queen with the big green dot. Never saw her again. No effort to make a queen was mafe so I went thru a long introduction of a new queen. They seemed to do great with her. Oops,
Nope. I put a frame of brood, eggs, everything.
Nope. They seem to want to die. Numbers got lower.
So, yesterday I changed out their comb. I squashed all the drone cells and froze the comb. I dumped them on the back of our 14 acres and moved the hive boxes to the other end of the apiary.
Sounds extreme but good grief, strike three your out. They will find homes in the Apiary and the laying workers will get a Come to Jesus lesson. Sometimes no matter what you do Nature does what it wants to do.
You are doing a good job.
It can be frustrating at times but sometimes they just don’t do as they should and fail. I think you handled that the right way. I just dump them out. It is not worth the time and effort to try and save them.
I gave my hive some foundationless frames a week or so ago and I just checked them. Two of the frames are drawn with almost completely drone comb and one frame is filled with drone brood of all ages. I panicked until I saw a couple full frames of worker brood.
My question is what do I do with a frame full of drones? Should I just let them be? Feed them to the chickens? Move them to the outside of the box in hopes the bees use them for storage after the drones emerge?
Some might disagree with me but I am not anti-drone. I would just leave them alone. But either solution would probably be ok. As long as you have worker brood I think you will be fine.
Bruce, could it be those 2 nucs that there were virgin Queens that never got mated?
Very possible. Never saw either queen.
Hey Bruce how did everything work out for you ?! Did they make it going through the same thing here in VA Thanks
One of the colonies survived and the other one did not. Too see how they are doing now check out the video link below. The colony that survived is the first one I show after the intro.
czcams.com/video/JbzxTFTClsM/video.html
I would call Rusty and have him pick them and when they were fixed tell him you want them back that is the easy way.
Might not be a bad idea lol. But I will get it figured out one day.
Add eggs/larvae and use the hive tool to gently pull down in several places on that frame. The will make them create emergency cells.. Find and squash old Queen.
Definately not enough nursbees in there
Yes these hives were on the way out. You’re solution may have worked. Will keep it I mind for the future. Thanks.
I looked and looked for the queens in both of these hives, multiple times. Never found either of them.
I just took frame from another hive with brood fresh layed eggs and they created emergency queen cell. Saved mine. Hope it helps.
@@brucesbees takes less time to shake them through an excluder to insure you remove that drone laying queen.
Have this situation now also. I must have injured the queen when we took a split 3 weeks ago. There was a frame of drone brood almost all emerged now. But our queen is not laying at all. We added a brood frame do they can requeen on their own. Never heard of a queen only laying stones so I’ll check to see if the queen is still around. I’m thinking she left several weeks ago when I saw a beard on the hive.
Do you have a laying worker -- no queen
Danny Springs could be.
Check for multiple eggs in cell and eggs off center. Laying worker signs. Give them a frame with known good eggs and larva and somemore bees an they will make a queen. Or combine with another nuc.
I wish this video was made 10 years ago! I had this problem my first season and couldn’t figure out what happened. I shook out the entire hive 50 yards from the hive. The laying worker won’t fly back to the hive.
That is what I am hoping happened.
why wouldn't the laying worker return? I think I would of combined the 2 nuc's and put in a push in queen cage for a few days.
If you have drone laying queens. You dont shack the bees off. Just remove the queens and if there is alot of drone cells remove and put empty frames in for her to lay in. You might put a capped frame of brood in if the bee numbers are low
Thanks for the input. I am always learning. Never saw the queen in these hives though. Seems your method is similar to what others have suggested but I have heard that shaking the bees a ways away works. May do it differently in the future.
Hive test the Queen and replace her. Sorry for your loss.
Hi, maybe u could take a frame from a stronger hive the has new eggs (1 to 3 days old) and place it into the drone hive. The bees should make a new queen. I'm sure you probably already thought of that. Hope you get it fixed. Of course you would have to make sure old Queen is not in the drone hive.
Hey that is a good thought. Thanks for checking in.
I have just done this Monday when do u think is the best time to go back in and check. Grate video Bruce 👌🏽
Within a week or two.
@@brucesbees thank you for replying 😊
🥳🥳🥳👌🏽 over the moon worked a treat the new f1 buckfast is laying lovely no more drone layer 🤩 cheers Bruce top man 👍🏽
You could have a worker laying eggs. And it's very hard to get rid of.
Yes. That it quite possibly what was going on.
Could be a laying worker. If there is no queen some times a worker tries to be one and will even lay. But they won’t be fertile . So she will just lay drones.
Yeah I think that very well might be what happened here.
Soon enough they won’t have anything but lazy boys!! 🤣
No doubt. Fortunately I addressed the situation and ended up with what appears to be a decent colony. Still alive last time I checked. 🙂
Queen didn’t get mated properly shake hive out install a new cell or Queen …
😮 thing
Laying worker. No queen
You got a lot of squashed bees on the edge of those boxes bruh
Not really considering there are 40,000 to 60,000 bees in an average colony of bees and these probably had thousands of bees, even though they were weak. Thanks for checking in though.
Never understand why anybody would shake bees on the floor because the laying worker or queen will always fly back with them. I would have just United all of them with newspaper and you would ended up with a decent hive.
Laying workers may not make it back they are usually house bee that haven't had a orientation flight .
A laying worker is an old bee has to be old for ovaries to developed usually not been laying long week or two before we spot there is a problem and before she was laying she was a forager flying worker and if it's hive not been moved she will remember where the Hive is and fly back there. Laying worker is there queen and they're not going to leave her behind they will lead her back.
If you have a very strong hive with a laying worker a good way to solve this problem is to move the Hive to one side face backwards put another Hive in the exact position that hive was in.with frames in put one frame in with brood on do this in the middle of the day when lots of bees are flying. Don't go in original hive you don't want the laying worker to be flying. Second day new hive can have new Queen put in or frame with eggs young larvae and let them make Queen cells and re Queen. When Queen is laying and hive is normal unite old hive on top with sheets of newspaper.
Hmm. Interesting idea. Thanks!
Remove the 2nd box. Make those go to another hive.
Hmmm that’s a thought. Thanks for checking in.
That’s an egg laying worker bee....shake them out...start over....
I did shake them. Two hives. One worked out and is doing great. The other did not work out and I shook the bees out for good a few days ago.
Just my opinion, I would have caged the queen for a few days.
Yeah, I think he did everything right except caging the queen. You could also put a frame of uncapped brood in there form another hive which will help if it is a laying working issue. It would also give them a way to make a new queen if needed, but at that rate it might be too late anyway and not worth wasting a good frame a brood. Either way I feel like you have a 50/50 chance anyway with laying workers. Good luck Bruce and hopfully it works out. My bees amaze me everyday.
Yes that probably would have been a better plan. Maybe it will work out but if not I will keep that in mind. Didn’t even think of that. Thanks!
brucesbees That is how it always goes for me as well. When you get home you think about it in more detail and say dangit I should have done this and that. Haha easy to tell you what to do when watching a CZcams video...lol I hope it works!!