Demeter and The Eleusinian Mysteries | The Myth of Hades and Persephone Pt. 1
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
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Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
4:08 The Myth of Demeter, Hades and Persephone
12:01 The Eleusinian Mysteries
18:08 Worshipping Demeter
27:22 Why did the Eleusinian Mysteries Stop?
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🏺 Resources:
Hill, Lisa L. “Rereading Persephone; Revisioning Writers’ Talk.” Composition Studies, vol. 25, no. 2, 1997, pp. 63-81. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/43501391.
Keller, Mara Lynn. 1988. ‘The Eleusinian Mysteries of Demeter and Persephone: Fertility, Sexuality, and Rebirth’, Journal of Feminist Studies in Religion, 4.1: 27-54 www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/2500...
Images of Eleusis were from this site: followinghadrianphotography.c...
The Homeric Hymn of Demeter can be read here: www.earlywomenmasters.net/dem...
😈 I love the emphasis on Demeter! I always read this myth as a deeply emotional exploration into the mother-daughter dynamic, not a spicy sex story between Persephone and Hades at all! Your videos are so fabulous. Thank you for the great content!
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed it (:
I always thought that Persephone eating the pomegranate seeds (symbols of fertility) meant that she was pregnant. I know a lot of ancient cultures believed that a marriage was only permanent once there was a child - before that, the girl could return to her family without issue in a sort of annulment.
It's an interesting idea. The pomegranate definitely had this type of symbolism, as well as pertaining to marriage I believe. Personally, I think this has much more to do with the Greek idea of hospitality as a divine right and duty. Perversions of hospitality often cause chaos. Think of Circe transforming the sailors into pigs with a meal, the island of the lotus eaters, etc. This idea of like "accepting one's hospitality and being bound to them" is a pretty common theme. We can also see other examples of a perversion of hospitality in the "abduction" of Helen by Paris, the suitors refusing to leave in the Odyssey, etc. It's also basically the entire beginning of the Argonautica, with Jason (a guest of the King) steals away with Medea, who ends up murdering her brother in the process.
@@Theater00jock I was thinking about the hospitality rules too. Listened to a lecture series long ago that went on and on about how Xenia was like THE most important element of all Greek society. I could totally see the argument going “you accepted his food, that means it officially wasn’t a kidnapping and now you have to stay.”
You are so right! Demeter deserves so much more from us! I am really excited to start this video, and care very little for the actual Hades and Persephone part of their story lol.
It is interesting to note that there is the same story about baby burning Demeter identical to one of Isis, who, looking for her husband body parts became a royal nannie, burned the royal child in order to make him an immortal and getting upset about not getting to finish the ritual!
I was going to make that comment myself. I hadn't heard about Demeter's story other than that she gets sad when her daughter has to return to the underworld. This is really fascinating that Egyptian and Greek mythologies are intertwined like that because of the connection between the two cultures. I think I read somewhere that Isis gets fused with many of the Greek goddesses such as Demeter. I am definitely going to add this to the world mythology class that I teach.
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I heard the same Isis story! I also remember a scorpion being involved. @NathalieO
So nice to see someone actually digging deep in the story for once rather than just... Drenching it in Romanticism. Allways love your videos so well researched can't wait for the next!
Thank you ❤
@@CinziaDuBois Hello. I wrote a play based on the Hymm to Demeter. You wanna read?? 😁
I think a story of a mother fighting for her young daughter from kidnapping forced marriage. Get your baby from this twisted deal!
I think possibly my favourite part of the "Hades/Persephone myth" is that... as far as scholarship can tell Hades can't have originally been in it? From what I understand, Persephone and Demeter seem to be much older deities than Hades, dating back to the days of Mycenae and linear B, in light of which it becomes even more wild that Hades became such a focus of the myth later on. Can't wait for the rest of this series!😈
Yeah before it was Poseidon who ruled over the underworld and had ties to persephone and her mother
the only thing hades really has to do with the myth is him slotting into the thematic role of 'ruler of the dead' so that persephone can fufill the role of 'queen of the dead'. other than that, not a lot of (original) versions of the myth focuses on him. the focus is always on demeter and persephone
Thank you so much for respecting and faithfully presenting the myth (and the importance of Demeter) as it pertained to the Eleusinian Mysteries. So many forget that this wasn’t just a story, it was the basis of a religious festival and religious beliefs. I also appreciate your careful attention to historical context - it’s so important and inextricable from the understanding of the myths.
One interesting thing I’ve heard about the pomegranate seeds - eating them may have been symbolic for accepting hospitality, which is what bound Persephone’s fate.
Edited to add: The bit I wrote about pomegranate seeds came from Dr. Ellie Mackin-Roberts, who posts informative videos on Tiktok regarding Ancient Greek religion, culture, and history (which is her expertise).
Shout out to modern hellenistic polytheism!
I always wondered why Persephone and hades were portrayed as an ideal romantic pairing when HE LITTERALY ABDUCTED HER. 👿
Many young girls see hades as the rich emo older man that can be changed by a young girl. I do not like that people try to frame the story as empowering romance when he kidnapped her and she had to ve his queen.
@@sweetnova3084 well, this is the intire point of the Cult of Persephone in Locri
As much as I enjoy this video, it makes so much sense that Hades and Persephone are seen as an ideal romantic pairing.
1) Hades, as Greek Gods go, Hades is the least awful to his wife; the bar is LITERALLY in hell. The powerful feelings of dislike towards Hades, especially in comparison to his cohorts (all a group of inbred megalomaniacs), are due to Christianisation and his association with the devil, which Hades' is not.
1.5) Let's compare him to the brother mentioned in this video. Hades sought permission from her father. He technically took the right course of action, as gross and misogynistic as it is. Then took the wrong one by snatching her away with said father's okay. Then again, can we be surprised, considering Zeus was full-on r-wording, disguising himself and peeing on other beings to impregnate them, leaving them to deal with the consequences. Once again, bar hell.
2) Persephone's existence also predates Hades. Persephone and Demeter exist in Mycenean culture as the goddesses of the underworld. The Eleusian myth barely mentions Hades and Persephone's descent to hell and return, which is of her own volition. I've always seen the Homeric myth of the kidnap as Persephone's rightful return to her throne, albeit as a consort. This is definitely the best we'll get from Homer
3) Women especially gravitate towards the pairing due to Persephone's elevation of power. In the Homeric hymns, Persephone goes from being 'Kore' meaning maiden, to 'Persephone' meaning 'the bringer of death', queen of the underworld who has so feared humans speak of her in euphemisms. Something is appealing about her power being outside the traditionally feminine, and what a transformation from fertility to death.
4) OSP discuss all the above in their Hades and Persephone video, which is a pretty cool accompaniment to this video.
And he’s her double uncle…
To be fair I don’t think many of the people romanticizing Hades and Persephone are literally interpreting her abduction as romantic, rather they’re telling a different version of the story. One where Persephone goes willingly and perhaps an overprotective Demeter can’t accept that. Though I understand the appeal, it is a pretty oversaturated interpretation at this point so I would like to see more of the version where Demeter is saving her daughter utilized in media today. But you can’t really stop these myths from continuing to be living, changing, stories that belong to everyone and that will always have multiple versions old and new.
And I wonder if one reason the romantic version developed is because Persephone stays with Hades. Not because she “chose” to stay but in the traditional version she is stuck with Hades for part of the year, that’s not really a happy ending if you want to tell an empowering story about a mother saving her daughter. I don’t think the Ancient Greek men really cared that much about Persephone’s abduction (or necessarily even saw Hades as being in the wrong) but to a modern audience that ending is easier to sit with if Persephone actually wants to be with Hades for the times she’s there.
One thing that I hope you are able to explore is how Demeter specifically, and the female Olympians broadly, have a recurrent allusion to human sacrifice. Demeter passes the boy child through the flames to “make him immortal”, Thetis (a Nereid who has interesting parallels with Demeter and was possibly an early divinity in archaic Greece) dips her son Achilles in the river Styx “to make him immortal”. Demeter is also the only Olympian who eats Pelops, the son killed & served to the gods by Tantalus.
Talking about the Eleusinian Mysteries, I suspect that they revolved around a symbolic sacrifice/dedication of a “magical youth” to Demeter, who would either receive the approval of the Goddess (as did Iacchus) or not (as did Demophon).
"Don't kidnap your wife, even if her dad tells you too" is a good rule, in general.
Demeter, honestly, doesn't show up a lot outside of this myth and a few small other stories, at least when I was first was studying mythology. Which is a shame, given her prominence in older stories, especially with hints from the Mycenaean stories that have been translated. Not as bad as Hestia, but shows a bit of the misogyny in the ancient Greek world...
I agree that Demeter deserves so much more. I always loved this tale because of Demeter going after her beloved daughter.
On H&P: the romanticizarion of that relationship is telling of the fact that few of us have experienced WINTER or famine
On the lesser mysteries; as an archaeoreligionist I delight on the legend that they were instituted by Demeter as a favor to Heracles (a non Athenian, which meant he would otherwise not be allowed the greater mysteries) for the sake of his 12th labor.
Given that the Iliad mentions Heracles wounding The Cthonic Zeus... It feels emotionally sound that Hercules wounding Pluto would make Demeter "yes I like you, here's how you can survive visiting my daughter"
Also: ergot has been speculated but, must be pointed out that it is not necessary for the transcendental altered consciousness. Fasting, sleeplessness, music, & dancing are more than sufficient for visions
I find it so any that people focus on the hades and persephone and make demeter the villian.
For the longest time, I have always been fascinated with Persephone. I think it's fascinating that she is seen as both the goddess of spring and simultaneously also a goddess so feared in the earliest days of pre-Greek history that she might've been the original goddess of death. Hades is so perfect for her and I love that they have such a stable marriage in the mythological canon.
I am also a big fan of Hadestown, though, and that musical made me feel ALL of the things. Am I gonna assume that we'll hear about Orpheus next time?
An Orpheus video is coming one day! It's on my list.
@@CinziaDuBois in Hades part, talk about the description of him in Plato Cratylus 403 and 404! Socrates is Hades biggest fanboy😂
@@CinziaDuBois the discription of Hades in Plato Cratylus 403 and 404 is closest thing in greek mythology of the judeo-christian God
@@CinziaDuBois and about Persephone from Magna Greece( Locri )! She his Biggest temple in the mediterraneo
@@CinziaDuBois i read some articles that Said that Pluto from Claudian De Raptu Proserpinae is the basis for creation of Lucifer from paradise lost ( Jhon Milton), and this version of Lucifer is the first badboy of modern literature
Hi! I am interested in a few questions about the Eleusinian mysteries.
Question 1: At what time of the year did Hades kidnap Cora? In the myth of Demeter it is mentioned that Cora was picking flowers in the meadow and her attention was attracted by a daffodil. But these are spring flowers! So the kidnapping could have taken place in the spring? So, Cora (Persephone) had to spend her time in Hades in summer? That is, the burial of grain in the fall in the ground is not Persephone's sending to Hades, but on the contrary - reunion with her mother Demeter?
Question 2: What could the Anaktoron, a small structure inside the temple of Telesterion, have been? Could it have been an oven for baking bread? After all, there are mentions that a hole was made in the roof of Telesterion for the flames to escape. Besides, the story of Demeter's baking of the little prince Demophontes is remarkable. The goddess wanted to make him immortal, but his mother interrupted the sacrament. So, Demeter chose another, more difficult way for mankind - through farming, growing grains and baking bread. Through the eating of bread there is communion with the body of the goddess Persephone. And those of mortals who have tasted the god become immortal.
Question 3: Who is Brimos? During the final scenes of the mysteries, the Hierophant exclaims: "Brimo has given birth to Brimos!". That is, the Mighty One gave birth to the Mighty One. Some researchers believe that it could be Dionysus. But as a proof of the miracle to the participants of the mysteries the hierophant presented the wheat ear! How can it be connected with Dionysus?
Can I suggest you do a video on minor but no less important deities of Greek mythology like the three Fates/Moirai and the three Graces?Charites?
The former were three sisters, the personification of destiny: Clotho (the spinner), Lachesis (the Alloter), and Atropos (the unturnable and also of death). Sometimes, they were even considered to be above gods.
Tha latter were Aglaea (Splendor), Euphrosyne (Mirth), and Thalia (Good Cheer) and they were strangely linked to the underworld as well, but they were the patrons of pleasure in life as play, amusement, rest, happiness, relaxation.
Hi, I don’t know if you will see this but here it goes. I’ve stumbled upon your channel a couple weeks ago, and let me tell you, I WISH I FOUND YOU SOONER… I love your videos soooo much. You always seem to go so in depth with your videos and I truly appreciate you and your hard work and dedication. Please keep up the good work
You've probably seen this but I was struck reading Tolkien's lecture notes included in his translation of Beowulf because he theorized that the origins of the Beowulf legend lie in a pre-viking age where agricultural deities were supreme over the martial deities of Thor and Odin. I know that's a bit of a tangent but it's an interesting connection between Beowulf and Demeter.
👹 excellent video! Very much looking forward to the next two. I hate the erasure of Ceres/Demeter in modern retellings. She was such a vital figure in the ancient world, and focusing on the Pluto/Proserpina side of things just completely skews purpose of this myth.
Thank you!
Great video! Can’t wait for the rest of the series 😈
Love this explanation! 😈 Excited for the rest of the series
I'm so stoked for a video on the 😈! Can't wait 💜
Great video! 😈 Looking forward to the rest of this series.
The Classics nerd is me squeed when this vid came up in my feed! I can't wait to watch the entire series! (And you're right, Demeter deserves much better attention -- and admiration -- for this story than she gets!) 💞💞
It is an interesting reading of the myth of Hades and Persephone and it definitely attracts attention to things I have not thought about (like that it is also a story of the mother's suffering). Good research work and I will definitely follow your channel in the future. I am however a bit sceptic to applying modern standards in judging an ancient myth (it is a great mental exercise, I agree but historical context is important).
While I do not approve how women were treated in Ancient Greece, it is a historical fact Ancient Greece was a very patriarchal society. The girl's consent for a marriage was a non-issue as long as her parents (mostly the father) had agreed. And yes, women were often unhappy about their match and the experience was traumatic (and understandably so). However, for the standards of the time and the Olympian gods, the relationship of Hades and Persephone was a very functional one ( the myth even points out Persephone fell in love with Hades, Persephone grew from a girl to a wife and even the Queen of the Underworld and etc. ).
I hadn't actually known why the symbol healing was the snake until this, thanks so much for your work on these. 😈
What a fantastic video! Loved every minute of it 💜 Demeter is one of my favourite goddesses and I’ve always found her grief at Persephone’s abduction heartbreaking, but also deeply relatable for anyone who has lost a loved one. Can’t wait for the next videos 😊😈👹
putting this into my "I need something to scratch my brain" playlist. looking forward to the rest of the series! 😈
Fantastic video, looking forward to the next one! 😈
I really enjoyed this. I cant wait to watch the next two parts tonight
Im so excited for demeter being recentered in this myth, super pumped to watch the video!
Edit: 😈😈 super excited for the rest of videos around this myth
Another Amazing Video 😈
I always love learning more about this story. Thank You.
Thank you ❤
😈 Lovely coverage, I like that you address the story and the historical context for the change. I look forward to part 2, and a series about devils, oh my.
The Demeter, Persephone and Hades mythology is one of my favorites. And I can't wait for your vid about the devil! I'm sure it will be just as splendid as yourself, lady. 🌈❤️
wow that list in IG today is one of the most honest one I've seen. Thank you for sharing. I like you even more with now that I know we have 80% of that list in common.
-Much love from a fan in Chicago-
I have been interested in mythology my whole life and I never knew about the bees! My favorite goddesses love them as much as I do and I had no idea! Thank you for teaching me something new!!! And of course, 😈😈😈 I can't wait for more videos 💕
I enjoyed this video - thanks for all the research you put into it! 😊 Out of curiosity, have you considered doing a video on the goddess Hekate? She has some ties into the Demeter and Persephone mythology you might find very interesting if you didn't already know. 😁 Looking forward to seeing your second Demeter vid soon!
I have always and truly adored your videos on Roman and Ancient Greek culture, as well as other topics! You are so eloquent, like a Muse! May you have a prosperous life and a great day!
😈😈
yesss looking forward to the videos you have planned!!!
Aw man, no mention of Baubo? The old maid in Celeus’ court who flashed Demeter to try and cheer her up? 🤣
Love this! And dont apologize for doing a video about demeter, its not boring at all. 😈😈
Great video! I've been fascinated by the Eleusinian Mysteries ever since I first fell into hyperfixating on ancient Greece, lol. The bees connection was super interesting! Looking forward to more videos! 😈
this myth had me in a chokehold recently, this was such a good overview of everything, and i look forward to the series.. thanks for uploading again!! 😈 :]
You're so welcome!
You have one of the best voices. It's so nice to listen to! And your videos are so well researched. Thank you so much for making them.
Wow, thank you so much for being so kind!
@@CinziaDuBois I'm just being honest! I've learned so much from your channel.
😈 😈 😈 Awesome video! I have always felt weird that Demeter was sidelined in the narrative of this myth in modern times. Thank you for bringing her back into the centre of the story :)
😈 I really enjoyed this video and appreciate your attention to detail! I have been a fan for about a month and a half to two months and am happy I have found your channel :)
This was so lovely! Can’t wait to hear the rest! 😈 The evolution of mythology is one of my favorite things to read about and it’s curious that so many romance novels have a modern retelling of the Persephone myth.
Fell upon your content in the last week or so and I love it, super rich and interesting complementary content to the socio-economic and political history of ancient Greece I got from school. 😈
Thanks for this neat Demeter video!
Glad you liked it!
@Lady of the Library, I just discovered your channel tonight. And i'm already hooked🤭😄! There's a sort of magical quality to both your voice and (I really think most of all) the way you articulate/ enunciate, especially when reading subject matter that happens to be rather emotive. Honestly, while you are, of course, incredibly thorough, even sharing with us all the "juicy" rumors of lore that did little more than add to any uncertainty already bogging the minds of those marvelous historians that first pieced together these ancient tales, it's your empathetic affect that separates you from other creators. Lol I'm waaaaay too wordy, so sorry about that🫣🤭. Anyway, I just wanted to express my massive gratitude towards you for what I've watched this far and intend to watch in the future😉🤗. Thank you so much! 🥰
Fantastic as always, this was a favorite for me.
😈
this is fire!
😈So love the emphasis on the core (or should I say Kore...and Demeter🤓) of the myth! Thank you, Cinzia!
It was delightful to listen to this tale while I made supper. The Demeter version of the story is definitely due more attention. I look forward to next video on Persephone. 😈
I don't know how to make a Devil emoji. Is my computer just that old? Based on the comment section, I'm making an assumption here that the answer is, "Yes." Chrome likes to tell me to get an upgrade every time I open it.
I've always been fascinated by the story of Hades and Persephone. The questionable relations aside and even the r-worded aspect of the myth, I recently learned the marriage was otherwise pretty stable. I'm not sure how it managed to be "stable," but in comparison to the rest of the Greek gods, I guess Hades is just surprisingly not as bad. In contrast with Zeus especially, I read that Hades was at least loyal to Persephone. Though, in some versions of the myth, there was that "one time," but I never know which version of the myth is considered the official version. I'm looking forward to the other parts.
Also, agreed. Demeter deserves more respect. If your child was suddenly taken away from you, wouldn't any normal parent be upset about it? Motherhood is a hard job and not every woman is suited for it. Clearly, Demeter has her priorities in check. I'd be looking for my daughter too if she suddenly went missing.
The 1/2 hour went by very fast, I can't wait for the next one!
Thanks! I'm sure I have seen you collab with other creators, but somehow didn't sub til now. I love the content and your presentation, and figured it was time to send $ as I enter tonight's binge!
Thank you so much for the donation! I'm afraid you may have me mistaken though with someone else -- I've never collaborated with anyone because I'm too socially anxious to talk to other creators haha.
@@CinziaDuBois Must have been a recommendation then! Still, I'm glad I found your channel and that it complements so many of my hyper fixations.
Nice! Looking forward to the rest of it!😈
Thank you for this ✨💞💝🌹
Loving your content! 😈
Wait. If a pomegranate is a symbol of fertility (25:55) then maybe Persephone eating pomegranate seeds could be symbolic of Hades getting her pregnant?! Myths are so interesting: there's so many ways to interpret them. Thank you for this fascinating deep dive into Demeter's important role in this myth.
😈 hey, pretty good video! I really appreciate how far you dig into the historical reasoning behind the shift in the mythos, it's often glossed over
Using this for my dissertation chapter on the Eleusinian Mysteries!!
Whoooo! I hope the resources help
Thank you for making long vids. My sister recently gave me some lego sets that she didn’t have room for, and I have a lot of tiny pieces of plastic to go nuts over.
Thank you. Much appreciated.
Excellent work 😈
Such a great video I love learning.❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
😈 always love your content and your approach to everything you put out there
I appreciate that!
I've binged all your videos but this one is by far the most fascinating one.
You mentioned you like video-games; any chance you could make a deep-dive on the inspiration of the classics and modern interpretations?
Dstiny 2's Dreaming City and Awoken stroy-line is filled with references to this myth. From the Taken cycle of death and rebirth to the fact that Queen Mara Sov's Throne-World is named "Eleusinia".
There is something, deeply psychological feminine about this that I find fascinating.
Finding thiis channel is like finding a gemstone in a desert.
Much love from Vzla! Keep it up!
Love to listen to everything you come up with. Of course I'm on board with a devil episode!😈
Thank you ❤
Thank you for making another great video. I love listen to your voice while watching the graphics. 😈
😈 your videos are always so interesting, I loved hearing more about Demeter
😈💀Kool topics. Can't wait
Waiting with baited breath for the rest of this series! 😈
Thank you so much!
👍👍I really, really enjoyed this one, excited for more! 😈😃
I always enjoy this story. I also like your sweater. I have one like it.
Thank you! 😊
Congratulations on your videos! they are so instructive and challenging. It would be interesting to note the etymology of the names Demeter and Persephone. Demeter (Da/earth + meter/mother) has a clear Greek origin. Persephone, on the other hand, is difficult to decipher etymologically. It is probably a pre-Greek word of no indo-european roots.
Also, the other name of Hades was Pluton, meaning wealth in Greek (hence plutocracy), as in agricultural societies a great deal of wealth came from cultivating the earth. of course. So this god of the underworld has both a negative (abductor/darkness) and a positive (wealth) image.
👹 love the content, your presentation, and really just everything about every video you make! Mos def want a devil video! And whatever other video your heart desires to make!
I appreciate that, thank you
😈 thanks for another great video! I've always been fascinated by the story of Persephone.
Glad you enjoyed it!
😈 thoroughly enjoying your content!
I've always been bothered by how modern readers romanticize a myth about a woman being kidnapped and forced to marry her abductor, followed by being set with an arbitrary rule forcing her to intermittently stay with him forever.
Io Demeter!
Also: 😈
Can't wait to see the next one 😈😈
Demeter is under appreciated 😈😈😈
Loved the video! 😈
Glad to hear so
made my day
😈 Great video, & excited for the rest of this series!
Thank you!
Great work 😈
Love your videos!😈❤
So excited for this series! (On my computer and cannot comment an emoji but I made it to the end!)
A wonderful, fascinating video, as ever! 😈
Thank you!
I could see Demeter blasting through the underworld ala Layla from Sky High attacks the cheerleaders, or just any girl boss moment Poison Ivy from DC has.
This idea of being trapped by eating foods is a version of the very prevalent idea of hospitality in Greek culture. Almost all Greek myths/epics involve some sort of perversion of hospitality. Think here of the Lotus Eaters (being trapped by eating food/doing drugs), Circe (being trapped by eating food/drinking drink), etc. This idea is very prevalent. Another example of abuse of hospitality as a theme are the suitors in the odyssey (kind of the reverse of this, suitors refuse to leave and take advantage of the good hospitality of their host). We even see this idea echoed in fairy lore with people eating the foods of the fae being trapped.
Separately, I think that Hospitality would be a great concept for a video, since it was so vital to ancient Greek culture.
😈 compelling as ever, thank you
OMG I missed you😭
11:40 Plot Twist: Hades is in Australia. It explains the spiders and Drop Bears.
😈 I would be interested in the devil video, and thank you for the deep dive into the Eluesinian Mysteries, since they tend to be skimmed over.
I would absolutely love a video about the devil! 😈I also like learning about the lesser-known gods and goddesses. We always hear about Zeus but rarely any of the other Olympic gods.
I would love to see a video on the devil. Especially when he's represented like a sexy rebellious annoyance 😈