The end of the "Self-Taught Programmer"
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
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The state of "Entry-Level" Programming Jobs: (0:00)
The Average Entry-Level Job Posting: (3:18)
Build This Type Of Project : (5:16)
Entry-Level Resume Example: (9:47) - Věda a technologie
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Niche. You’d be surprised how many offers you get when you’re only competing with 100 people in your state for some technology no one wants to work with on a proprietary project. The problem is everyone and their grandmother applies to react jobs because that’s what all the tutorials teach
Perfectly said.
Except that react has 10x more job openings in most places.
I think the best move to do is pick the tech that is not mainly use by programmers. This time less is better.
I said this same thing on another video. People want to start out and do everything that everybody and their mama's are doing. That is the secret to stand out do a niche type deal, that not many people do. You will have job security that way. A lot of businesses have older apps and code and the techs managing them get old and retire. Its too costly for them to upgrade, but that is were the niche coder comes in. If you are the only one selling tacos in 50-100 mile radius, you gonna be in high demand and can charge what you want.. new grads forget about this and want to follow the herd because its easy and dont want to put in the work.
@@LotsOfFunyoutubechannel quickly becomes irrelevant when they’re being filled by overseas people willing to do it for free in exchange for a visa and who are likely better at coding than your average boot camp graduate. There’s also an influx of laid off fang employees now with significantly more experience and pedigree than the average coder.
With 10x job openings in a sector someone niching down is still able to make more money and get a job faster…
dude tells you that there is not hope for you, and then promotes his coding community, suss.
Agreed
He's trying to reduce the competion
Yeah his vids are all shit lol
Also. Lol. He said Mongo DB, I worked at 4 companies, and none of them used Mongo. Stick to SQL. It will be more relevant.
Yeap. These content creators like to use the latest buzzwords in claiming what you need to learn, but the truth is if you can use a programming language / library to make practical apps, then companies are still using and hiring for those things.
@@atlantic_love lol. I am one of those content creators.
I have heard this for the past 9 years of my career, yet people are still landing good jobs with basic knowledge and they grow from there. People should really stop scaring others and make them lose hope. I have never had a single year where anyone said "next year is gonna be better, yet people have outlived all those "bad years". Its what the world is , others win others lose, there is no pattern to this. Some people with degrees know nothing practically, some are applying for high paying positions just coz they have some papers, yet a self taught dev is humble enough to apply for the lower paying position and transition from there.
Statistically, the self taught dev has an income level to replace from his current career that he wants to change from. They either have a family they are raising or other responsibilities. Statistically, college graduates take the lowest starting pay and companies hire them for that reason along with the fact that they have a CS degree
@@matthewhayes9734 Where are these statistics that you're looking at? Everything I've seen in the industry shows that college graduates tend to make a higher base pay right off the bat and as it's discovered how crap they are at the job pay normalizes as compared to the self-taught developer.
Well said.
@@anon_y_mousseBecause most self taught developers are older than college graduates they demand higher pay. The college graduate right out of college is cheaper. Also I’m assuming even the self taught developer at the minimum has some bachelors or even a masters degree - doesn’t have to be a CS degree. Older people more established in their career tend not to go backwards in salary. College graduates have nothing to lose (right out of college)
@@matthewhayes9734 I've known quite a few self taught developers who eschewed college altogether and got started in the industry right away. Maybe that's unusual in comparison to where you live, or maybe it's just how things used to be.
Its scary like a horror movie saying ''based on true events" in the end
It never was that easy, it was a myth. I work directly in the placement side of the industry, I have for years. I knew that at some point people would start telling the truth about programming instead of making hyperbolic claims about going from nothing to 100000k in 24 hours. Basically, everything in life is hard... hard work wins.
But at the end of the day, after achieving it all, earning the money, getting the things, was it all that hard work worth it? I was happier with less.
@@maillardsbearcat I think one of the main reasons programming can lead to depression is because it requires an exorbitant amount of sedentary "activity". It is easy to get depressed when you have something that lowers your ego through constant negative feedback and you are physically becoming unhealthy. Basically, programming can affect mental health and physical health at the same time, in deleterious ways. My advice, make sure you exercise a lot to offset the negatives...
lies@@MrJacobgood1
@@MrJacobgood1 gotta have reasonable work hours and good mentally healthy and supportive coworkers, not aholes. This is a huge point for many areas not just coding.
Thank you for saying what needed to be said. 🙏🙏
As a self-taught developer, the journey has been quite a ride this whole year, plenty of rejections.
Rest assured, plenty of people who are not self-taught are also going through plenty of rejections.
@@NobodyYouKnow98 This is not the way to think about it!!! Don't comfort yourself with these kind of thoughts! Just git gud at it and you'll have a job.
if you’re good enough i’ll give you a job
Don't give up man
When I got into programming… there was no JavaScript, no React, no HTML. You had to do everything yourself. I got all my jobs except for one because I developed a good reputation.
One of the worst things to come onto the scene is the HR department.
They added so much rigor to the whole process that mortis set in.
Ahhhhhhhh........... "Entry level" with "2 years experience." Not a non sequitur, not an oxymoron at all !!!!!
yeah, what world we fucking live in LOL
it doesnt mean 2 year work experience. ACTUALLY if you do have 2+ years of experience and you apply to this, I would say you're a sucker. The company obviously realizes theyre not getting a dev with 3 years of experience applying to an entry level position, they do posts like this just for the occational desperate sucker that would, so they can underpay him. Also if you only have 1 year it doesnt automatically mean your CV gets tossed in the trash lol. Some personal projects + an internship is literally enough to land this job. A good cover letter, good communication skills and a bit of luck and that's it. All of the requirements listed are also basic concepts that are used in every single professional web project, so you should know those, at least the basics. Don't get discouraged out there.
@@shyshka_ please explain how to make your projects seem like work experience. Do you need 1 year worth of work in projects?
Entry level jobs should have no experience criteria.
@@shyshka_those cv with only 1 year of exp would get tossed, ATS would filter any cv like that and what the recruiter or hiring manager gets would be a filtered pool of candidates that meet most requirements. So projects dont matter at all if there no chance of them being seen.
Thank you for the info and making it clear. It really helped
I'm expecting lots of rejections to come. I've been contemplating on shifting career to a dev since 3 years ago. Been studying on and off since then and only started to really commit to it like 3 months ago, now on the way to build my portfolio & spend some time doing leetcode. Sucks to hear this being self-taught but better now than never. I just hope that all these crazy stuff about frameworks will normalize in the near future because now it's becoming a lottery on who studied the next big thing. They just don't stop popping up.
It's not just programming, that's the thing people need to realize. It's the entirety of the I.T industry being hella competitive, and over saturated. Not trying to deter you from your goals but I've tried the programming gig and it was hard. Kept getting rejections. However I was also al IT Admin. That was my background before I even jumped into programming and even went to Nucamp boot camp. I lost my job a nd been apply non stop for a entry help desk job just to get back in and it's not even working. Applied to eve SOC Analyst jobs and network engineering and still only rejection letters. I decided to change my career and focused on another industry.
I decided to shift career 2.5 years ago now, took me 1.5y to learn and build a decent resume, 3 months of absolute insane grind to get a job, send people messages on LinkedIn, almost harassing them over email or private message, now it's been 8 months I am employed as a fully remote developer, exactly what I wanted, it changed my life in ways I can't even imagine, proudest thing I've ever done is to land that job, it's absolutely worth it if your current career does not give you the flexibility / compensation you would like to have. Stay hopeful, statistically speaking, if you keep on working on your projets and applying to jobs, eventually you'll get something, it's a marathon not a race.
What industry did you go into? @@addacdd
Keep it up and don't give up.
Same position
Agreed it might not return to what it was but with all the frameworks, libraries, etc, it becomes developers with significantly more tools to work with, even at a base level. I started professionally and I think I got the last train by starting with a $10 course from udemy. That's not to discourage future devs, whoever adapts will enter the industry.
I think that's the main key there: adaptability. People who can adapt survive.
@@2rx_bni Adaptability what is that mean elaborate please? i started few months back
@@2rx_bni and what are yous supposed to do when you dont?
@@kani-licious adapt more
It is strange that people always go for the same types of jobs. I entered tech as a Software test engineer and from that point had the chance to become a developer. I think there are many different first jobs in tech to become a developer that most people don't know about.
If you mean the QA engineer, it seems like this market is even more saturated cuz lots of people heard of manual testing and that it's very easy. And the matter of fact is that manual qas are a dying breed, they need to have skills in automation as well and it's a whole different story, not much easier than the software development.
So yes there are other jobs in tech than dev jobs but most of them are very hard to get either. Thanks for sharing
@@David_Liu93I think he meant that most people are trying to learn the same language like JavaScript ,frameworks like react ,instead of learning something else
@@Omar-kl3xp yes, I understand, but what I meant is that sometimes learning another skillset related to development is actually not easier but a harder and more difficult way, that will require approximately same amount of time and effort.
One thing that can help is start with the small businesses in your area. Many of them need simple programs and they won't have job applications on the websites. Some of them just need a database setup and maybe a simple website to advertise their business. As for when a job listing lists Scrum or Agile, you can mostly ignore that line, in around 20 years of experience, I have yet to find a company that implements Agile or Scrum like another company has. They mainly want to know if you can work on a team and deliver code on time.
Any tips on approaching the smaller local companies to work with them?
@@jacuibell8118 Think about what they might need. Is it a coffee shop? Are they part of a chain or are they independent? If they are part of chain then skip it. If they are independent, think about what they need. Inventory tracking, accounting, payroll, advertising, etc... Then think about what you can bring to the table to help automate their tasks. In other words first do your research and then approach with a proposal.
Please could you drop some tips about approaching these businesses. I believe what you are saying is freelancing, isn't it?
@@duztv5370 Yes, it would be freelancing at least at the start. You may find a company that's willing to hire you on permanently. To approach the businesses, you may want to first research the type of business and think about what they would need. Then advertise your services. That may be just putting up a notice on a job board or calling directly on the businesses. Build a little prototype of what you can build for them as a demo model.
@@duztv5370 First do your research on the businesses in the area. Think about what they would need to conduct their business. Some common apps are accounting apps, inventory management apps, sales referral apps, website to advertise, etc. Then advertise your services on job boards or community boards or even just cold calling on each of the businesses directly. Find out what they would like to change about the apps they use or what apps they need. Then do a mockup of what you can offer and how it will improve their current system. You will get a lot of rejections, but you may be able to get a few bites. Also, doing the mockups and prototypes counts as experience on your job app. If you are already working at another job, then look around and see what can be improved and present it to your manager or the owner of the business. I would recommend also taking a sales course to help you in advertising.
I got a job as a self-taught dev in 2021 for 120k. That company crashed early this year, but I saw the writing on the wall and got a new job for 130k before it went out. I also moonlight contracts, taking in an average of about 200k. I started as backend dev but moved to dev ops and full stack and cloud architecture. Now I just personally set up an openstack environment at a data center and am migrating all our gcp resources to it. I pretty quickly just became the “everything guy”, which is unfortunately what you need to have a stable job. I’m not worried at all about my job though. I’m literally the only person at my company to know shit about Ops, the cloud, and Linux administration and still write entire micro services when I’m not being hounded by people wanting me to do shit for them.
@Gideonrex1
Yeah right and unicorns fart rainbow farts. And if you play the Lotery you will guarantee win.
Come on, don't consider yourself smart, you are just lucky. The 1% of a$$holes who wore able to get a job in Tech and brag about it te everybod.
Get out of my face!!!
Could you tell us more about how you got the job? Like your experience and projects. Where did you start?
@@finiavanamandresy5460 I started off doing UIL programming with Java in hs my senior year. I had no experience in cs, but the cs teacher came to my UIL mathematics teacher to convince me to join the team and quickly learn. I ended up doing chemical engineering in college and couldn’t get a job afterwards bc everyone stopped their rotational programs due to Covid. I started doing an MBA to wait it out, but while in my MBA, a guy that used to be on my UIL cs team reached out saying his company was looking for strong engineers. I said I hadn’t been doing cs since hs, he said no problem and he sent me a list of books and concepts to learn. I crammed during the summer break, he got me an interview with the team, they liked me, and I got the job. I then dropped out of the MBA bc the entire point of the MBA anyways was to try to get a 6 figure job and I just got it lol although chemical engineering didn’t directly apply to cs, it probably did help with my credibility though, so I guess my experience wouldn’t apply to someone with no degree that just wants to hop into the industry.
@@finiavanamandresy5460 as far as the materials I crammed, I read a js book, a domain driven design book, learned about micro services, learned containerization with docker, learned the fundamentals of kubernetes, learned about event driven applications and pub sub models, learned the fundamentals of functional programming, learned some technologies and their applications like Kafka, redis, and mongodb, and I read through the target company’s npm packages. I saw they heavily used decorators, didn’t know wtf that was, so I learned that too.
@@finiavanamandresy5460 I studied about 12 hours a day during the summer break. I also am well aware pretty much no one has that kind of time, but I saw the opportunity I had during the break and figured it was my only chance to learn. And it’s not like I have some superhuman studying discipline. I’ve never studied that hard. I was just highly suicidal going into that summer, felt I had no hope with how the job search was going and it reaching over a year with no job, and saw this opportunity as my golden staircase out of my shit storm. I saw it as life or death, so I put everything I had into it.
Thank you for your honesty and advice!! My fingers are crossed for 2024. Take care!🎄
Bro ... I was literally thinking about how I needed a video like this earlier because I wanted to start self teaching and didn't know the best way to go about it. Absolutely perfect break down from a-z. My twin (he's a developer too) was actually mentioning this to me earlier on the phone, but I didn't quite understand to this degree how good of an idea it is to go about it this way. Thank you so very much for taking the time to make this video. This is exactly what I needed to move forward. Good sh**.
I shall henceforth call this "The Magic Sauce" video cause your needing experience and getting experience approach on your own workaround is brilliant. Thanks!
The problem with this is that this is still recommending people to the same ecosystem that has no jobs for new developers... the "MERN" stack has no jobs for new people because there's a huge supply of developers doing this and not enough jobs for everyone. If I'm an employer I have enough people who have 1 year - 5 years of real world experience so for someone new to get in they basically waiting for their lotto ticket to be called. There's plenty of jobs where you can use web development skills that don't have the title of "Full stack" or "Front End Developer"... That's where most people are going to have to start with now and days if they want to get hired... or else they will be at home just waiting
No. This is seriously bad advice. You don't need all the full stack bells and whistles to land a good job. You just need to be strong in your fundamental skills, be reasonably familiar with contemporary languages and tooling, and have the natural talent and intelligence that makes a good developer. Nothing else matters as much and it was always like that.
I strongly disagree, if you want to progress your career, you need to have extensive experiences to be considerate in such a competitive market. You can work on your foundations once you have a job an gain experiences but for your first job you definitely need to showcase that you have enough experience to keep to ball rolling for companies otherwise you are just nobody to them.
@@shawnyeo7086the biggest problem of this industry is all the garbage "developers" who lack foundation knowledge and decided to "work on it" once they get the job, not before. They are the root cause of all the overengineering and awful quality software that plagues this industry.
Lmao ikr. Job postings are a wishlist. Nobody with a grasp on reality expects a dev with less than 2 years exp to have all of that crap.
@@shawnyeo7086no. You’re talking about improving oneself. Not getting a job.
Tech is garbage now. I'm glad I went into medicine and did it for the money, exactly opposite of what people advised. I make $700k a year as GI doc and am super happy. Only have to work 15 shifts out of the month.
if only click bait trash was over
Super helpful stuff man. I really appreciate it!!
Thank you for keeping it real, it is not AS easy to get a job as it was, but it's still possible with a little more effort
Kenny, thank you for your video. I was toying around with the idea and your video you really helped. Thanks again.
The era of "self taught programmers" are over, even though dude is not even 30 years old. What do you know about anything in the tech world, being a shitty web dev who grinds leetcode all day in hopes of landing a job that pays over 100K sure is challenging these days.
But for people who are interested in solving problems in the world using software, these people will never be out of a career. No matter what era it is, 2001, 2009, 2024. Learn to provide value in the world using your programming skills.
It's interesting to see comments like yours which contradict and try to give a reverse arguments to discuss, but I really do hope what you're saying to be true and practical cause I get really demotivated with videos like these but somehow I'm still able to be feel confident in why I'm Aiming to be a programmer
@@depression_isnt_real you guys are probably young so I'll lay this out simple for you. If your goal in tech is just to work a 9-5 job then you should prioritize increasing your skillset in a specific domain, whether that be front-end, back-end, infra, ML infra, graphics, systems, streaming, storage, distributed systems, cybersecurity. There are quite literally hundreds of domains and disciplines to dive into on the vertical stack known as "tech"., You need to dive into one of these slices in this stack and expand your knowledge by building projects, reading papers, etc. Make the effort to practice these things everyday and opportunities will come to you
However, if you are planning to be a software entrepreneur then its an entirely different ballgame. Go find problems in non-software markets and find niche solutions to address those problems. Don't just "create netflix", no one needs another netflix, no one cares. Some kid in India can create netflix skeleton in 4 hours by hacking react. Use your unique knowledge and advantage to provide value to the world.
Oh and by the way. React isn't programming, it barely counts as software. Go learn something truly useful with Javascript. React is for people who are handicapped with code.
@@greyy_097 you guys are probably young so I'll lay this out simple for you. If your goal in tech is just to work a 9-5 job then you should prioritize increasing your skillset in a specific domain, whether that be front-end, back-end, infra, ML infra, graphics, systems, streaming, storage, distributed systems, cybersecurity. There are quite literally hundreds of domains and disciplines to dive into on the vertical stack known as "tech"., You need to dive into one of these slices in this stack and expand your knowledge by building projects, reading papers, etc. Make the effort to practice these things everyday and opportunities will come to you
However, if you are planning to be a software entrepreneur then its an entirely different ballgame. Go find problems in non-software markets and find niche solutions to address those problems. Don't just "create netflix", no one needs another netflix, no one cares. Some kid in India can create netflix skeleton in 4 hours by hacking react. Use your unique knowledge and advantage to provide value to the world.
Oh and by the way. React isn't programming, it barely counts as software. Go learn something truly useful with Javascript. React is for people who are handicapped with coding,
Google just laid off like 20,000 people. Pixar thousands more. Facebook thousands a couple years ago. Remote work let companies outsource overseas more. It's not getting easier for programmers (I have 30 years professional experience with C++). I got by having a niche in CGI. 2013-2019 was way better than now.
You sound a bit triggered with reality. The job market contradicts with what you say. You think all those web devs looking for a job but can't find one are not interested in solving problems with software? Get off your high horse.
Love you, brother! This is exactly what I needed to hear. Graduated from a full stack bootcamp back in March (after learning for a year on codecademy pro and a few college classes) and applied to jobs for about a month with no success at all before becoming disillusioned that self-taught was a viable option.
people at TOP constantly get hired idk
@@banditwiggaI noticed most people that get hired from TOP have technical backgrounds or are coming from other professions in tech.
@@Seekingtruth-mx3ur not everyone. Lots of them from different unrelated backgrounds
@@Seekingtruth-mx3urTOP like The Odin’s Project?
@@C4shmoney Yeah that's it
The biggest thing said here that needs to be noted NETWORKING.
The only reason i got my first two programming jobs is due to networking and knowing people.
Keep your tech skills up but put good solid time into the social skills area and meet others.
thank you for this! Very informative.
I agree that it has never been easy, and getting a job in 6 months is ridiculous. But it is still possible. It took me 4 years as a self-taught to get hired. ( started learning at 35 ). Lol. I could have gotten a CS degree. But I didn't. Which I recommend for anyone who can, get the degree.
I have seen many others go the self-taught route and accomplish the same thing I did. But it is very difficult. The less pedigree you have, the more work you must do to stand out and focus on networking and building connections.
All in all, scare the crap out of folks and then give good advice. Lol.
So here is an anecdote from my experience. I used to think that the reason why I was not getting hired at the beginning was agism, but at the end of the day, it was my inability to meet the requirements for the job that I was applying to.
And last point, if you have over 10 unfinished Udemy classes, You are in trouble. I wasted lots of time jumping from tutorial to tutorial.
The biggest thing that helped me was to stop doing tutorials and start building projects.
Great tips in this video.
Brother hello. What type of projects would u suggest tho? Like real life projects such as twitter instagram or maybe tiktok or what. I really appreaciate that.
@@mury.a He gave some good tips. Instead of doing a clone of something, I would think about figuring out something that solves a problem, you can use Next JS with PostgresDB using Prisma. Should cover full CRUD funitionality, with Auth and integrating a 3rd party API. Another good project is to build a bug or project tracker.
My worry is not the market being saturated , but will it ever be better .Rapid advancement in ai tools which will get even better as the time progresses is scary. Planning for an exit strategy might be the best option
Really appreciate this video
I started learning FrontendDev in 2021 and still struggling to build React Projects and getting land is a diff ballgame, Now I'm feeling stuck learning code watching tut after tut so gave up, and started learning design & website dev
I can subscribe to everything said here. I've made an amazing portfolio of two very large full scale apps, plus many mid sized projects, and got hired. I did not make the projects to stand out, but I knew I would be standing out.
I highly doubt they'd look at my application if I didn't have that.
I have never thought of making an even larger project like you mentioned. It's probably even better, but it's probably better to first make full stack projects that take a month to implement.
Hey man, can i see your portfolio so i can have an idea of what you implemented?
@@camo4970 hahaha youtube keeps deleting my comments... fk this platform, comment on one of my vids
Type the link with spaces, if you can. And i ll look it up. Thanks
@@camo4970 on one of my videos I posted
Full stack means like uses a data base and has a front and back end right?
Not a fan of the clickbait demoralizing title, but good content here. I'm transitioning from an engineering background with a portfolio of full stack projects I spent basically all of 2023 developing which I'm proud of and it's still brutal out there. I wouldn't be opposed to going back to school for a MS in CS but worry that my web dev skills would atrophy since I still have to work full-time.
Some people definitely need this wake-up call though. I support anyone trying to improve their lives but some of the bootcampers I've met at networking events aren't gonna make it. Some of them are unemployed or working part-time and the best thing they've built is a tutorial weather app.
Here's hoping that the fed's plan to cut interest rates throughout 2024 leads to at least a slightly better job market.
99% of bootcampers are so underskilled
@@cristian-florea-coding I never thought anything of them either, I mean how should someone without a background learn stuff in 3~months while others(not every one) still kinda sucks after 3-5years of studying a Bsc CS.
@@ZelltisExx that's what I'm saying, the bar is high, but the competition isn;t even touching it. I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn, and with one eye I laugh, and with the other I cry lol
It's not clickbait at all. There are so many delusional self-taught developers that are convinced you can do a bootcamp and land a job in 6-12 months.
These people hear more about the success stories, which are a SMALL minority. Nobody hears about all the people that give up in those 6-12 months, or even longer.
well degrees of any kind do not equate to useful, practical knowledge. There are many many great self-taught engineers with no degrees whatsoever who've advanced to senior level. Bootcamps sell an illusion, but so do colleges.
@@ZelltisExx
Where is this change happening ? I live in the EU. It's actually the opposite. No one cares about university degrees anymore because they are useless. The curriculum is so outdated for the day to day tasks no one actually cares about the degree anymore. I work for a bank and more than half of my coworkers are either from different academic backgrounds or no academic background at all. I've interviewed many times and not a single time I was asked for my degree and whenever I mentioned they just said "irrelevant"
Which country? I bet not Germany
@@SuperBodetSweden. Nobody cares about degrees here. I worked in Turkey as well for 5 years. Almost no companies cared there either.
a CS degree wasn't even a thing at first. I think that is some post 2000 BS or something...
Python boot camps killed the market. It reached such a level that just mentioning "python" would land you a 200k+ job overnight. Now the opposite is true. Python is the kiss of death.
Even with some college credits, self-study, a coding bootcamp and AWS certifications I received like 600 rejections this past year.
Same here, minus the AWS certs. Seems we are a dime a dozen.
My count is 60, I guess I have 540 more to go. Sad thing is that I am not even receiving rejections, they just don't give af
@@varunsaiguda silent rejections if they don't respond within 2 months imo
whats the country where you try to din work ? is in UK , or US , tring to find the job?
@@unda25 U.S.
incredible vid kenneth
These personal projects don't count as professional experience. Companies don't count experience that way and never have.
No, but a portfolio is important and if you have a project that truly stands out, that can help you.
@@helloimatapir a portfolio means nothing to people looking for backend development. They will never look at anything on github.
... so call it a professional project instead?
@@rumfordc Are you really dumb enough to think that will work?
Don't generalize. not all companies count professional exp as you would think they would do
Hey Kenny, long time no see! Id also add an emphasis on architecture and design patterns when building your own app and show/discuss with employers (target senior/lead devs)
No, it's not the end of the self-taught programmer. This video has a clickbait title. You simply need to show more skills than before if you are looking for a job that is. You can still build real-world applications as a self-taught programmer and work as a contractor.. I know, I have been doing so, and there is more demand for those services across the world. None of the requirements he talks about are unique to self-taught programmers, you still need to show those skills regardless of how you got them. It's about hard work and showing what you can do.
this was one of the best video on this topic, no false claims or exaggeration just facts and accurate tips!
keep learning and keep grinding hard work pays off ! Being realistic dose not mean quitting feels like as an influencer ken feels guilty for oversaturation of people learning code but f dat follow your dreams better than not trying and yes I'm one of them people trying to code I'm in a boot camp, and I give it my all! wish you da best to all who want to move forward in life and Kenny think of the people you helped I taken good stuff out of your vids there always up and down 's everyone is responsible for their own actions Merry Christmas to all🎅
arnaldofdz1686
It is a gamble, and Tech is not reliable anymore..
Yeah there wore good times 5years ago 6years ago..
But now Tech Market is in the toilet
2001: "The tech industry is over"
2008: "The tech industry is over"
2023: "The tech industry is over"
It's a cycle. Stop listening to clickbaiters like this dude.
thank you so much for this it really mean alot
I am on a journey of self-taught programmer and once am confident I will apply to schools or coding boot camp, I will come back and give my Testimonial.
Awesome and knowledgeable video 😎 👍
This is really good advice! I’ve been on this past for a few years now and I’m realizing that this is what it’s coming to.
Thanks for explaining the stuff with the help of TOP-DOWN approach.
There is no doubt the market is tough right now, but it has been tough in the past as well. As long as you can fulfill the requirements and showcase the job's required skills through the projects, and extensively code for 6-8 months of code, the job is done.
Unless you are exceptionally intelligent and/or enrolled in Ivy League colleges, please don't major in CS. Unlike other professions (such as doctor or pharmacist), there is no proper guideline on how to become a software engineer after graduation. Additionally, unlike other professions, there are a lot of H1B employees in this field. So, not only do you need to compete against locals, but you also need to compete against H1B employees.
Sounds like engineering lol
@@bigdog4166 But engineering is way harder than CS and it's not easy to WFH, so it will never reach that point.
I mean 100k a year is very much, in the business I work for we are very open to new developers if they are ambitious and eager to learn. However I can only agree with you that hard work is required.
is youre company is hiring =))
translation - "my videos are not doing well so let me make a clickbait video"
Good to see you Kevin after a long time! Stay in touch.
Great insight mate!
>Me, only self taught to learn and make open source software.
👁️👄👁️
Okay memes aside, this industry is rough. I knew that before I started. I believe the entire job market is at fault, and management is just feeding it.
So the only way to win is to not play.
Go make something nice. Even if it is just for you. ❤
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays y’all.
IDK you man, but you're awesome. Merry Christmas
I agree.
I'm a product owner in a scrum team, I plan to just do some freelancing on the side and then use that to transfer to engineering side
9 out of 10 people at my company are self taught. It is important to be able to self teach because new technologies are always being introduced. A traditional CS degree does give you a lot better background on programming fundamentals but bootcamps can definitely get you jobs. That being said, I think we are simply at the start of a grave economic downturn that will make it hard for anyone to find a job. Keep your chin up and keep learning.
loved the video bro!
They never existed. I've always said, just build projects. Time takes time.
You could also try to go the backend programming route and try to find a more niche type of stack to focus on.
Any suggestions?
I mean most are full stack, so they know frontend as well as backend (like MERN).
I'm a self-taught we developer, nobody would hire me, I did have some success as a freelancer, but the field is saturated and there's always the folks that charge peanuts and drive the rates to the ground. Wasn't worth it anymore. I became a plumber/electrician, life is treating me well, love the technical aspects of the job, the money is good and always flowing. And there's the part where AI can't touch my job, at least not anytime soon.
great to hear actually!
This is why im having to apply for jobs as help desk and entry level customer service rep WFH. That way when i have a stable job i can build and work on projects but im trying to go for data analyst and data science track route. I learned basic python and forgot it cuz i didnt practice or use it tbh so i need to build programs and learn more SQL, power bi, tablaeu. Im majoring in data science and still need 2 years to complete but i cant to back to school unless i have a stable job.
Do student loans not exist where you live?
@@NobodyYouKnow98 im under academic probation and I have to raise my GPA so I don't qualify for grants or loans atm. Also, I'm only allowed to take 1 class at a time at my university, unfortunately.
@@Theblistaknight
If you're on academic probation, are you sure you're in the right field of study?
@@NobodyYouKnow98 yes cause im making better grades now in data science and before i was struggling with biology major and was feeling stress of becoming a dr and it wasnt meant for me i realized.
@@Theblistaknight
Okay, it's good that you were able to realize that your first choice wasn't necessarily your best choice. A lot of people never come to that realization, or even worse, they do but then never act on it.
I saw this coming from a mile away, spent a good chunk of my 20s buying courses and trying to make money without school. Going back to school for computer science now lol
Great video Kenny 👏
I've been a dev since around 2010, focusing on angular/frontend since around 2013-2014 (basically avoiding react this whole time). Never had an issue, it seems easier as a Senior. Really unfortunate for the new guys :(
I remember back in late 2000s where us in non-tech who had good grades were headhunted by IT recruiters. They would be willing to train us, basically employing while training willing career shifters.
Not even 2 decades later, here we are and the barrier in tech just grew thicker and thicker.
I am a senior web dev with 15 years experience on top of that I have written alot of code for desktop apps with Delphi and VB back in 2005 and I am suggesting it still happens! even in 2024.
@@vanessapigwin
Is knowing how to code be beneficial in any other industry? Not necessarily being a programmer or in IT? I just really enjoy coding, im at that phase where it feels like a game where Im leveling up. I hope I can put it to use in any way
I was learning Javascript to get into a web dev bootcamp but your video has totally demotivated me now. So much for this mythical skills shortage
If you really thought there was a skills shortage, then (a) you were just the candidate that "boot camp" was looking for, and (b) you had head in the sand. Despite what boot camps and places like Udemy claim, there hasn't been a skills shortage in YEARS.
Oh well - looks like I might as well go back to something more basic like the Network Plus and CCNA
dont be demotivated man. Just try to learn what the market demand is and you will land a role. You can learn about the market demand from already employed dev friends of yours or just going to job sites like linked in.
@@dropdeadfredd1709 IMO I'd do something much more practical like CCNA. Businesses ALL THE TIME are looking to upgrade their networking. My own employer has had some guys in here running new cables from the patch panel up through the ceiling and down to specific spots in the facility. The guys doing that work seem to enjoy it.
Oh there is a shortage alright they just don't want to fill it with entry level talent
Going the more self taught route without going back to school I’m probably going to spend 2 years roughly on learning, before I start applying. Hopefully things start to look up by then 😅
If you are willing to do the work, you will get there.
It’s sad but it’s reality now.. might be best to go for cybersecurity and cloud engineering (eg. salesforce, aws) but then again you need to gain at least 1-2 yrs experience unless you know someone (networking)
This is actually great news for newbies like me...simply because I felt so lost at getting my phrasing and explaining correct on stackoverflow... lol
Well its a cycle. At one point not everyone has a CS degree now everyone does. At one point not everyone had internships at tech companies, now everyone does, at one point no one did projects now everyone does. I am "trained" in data analysis and everyone does the same projects so now you have to do something different.
Don't Just be a self-taught programmer. Be a Self-Starter! Take the initiative to do something big!
U forgot farm leetcode questions, learn about cloud and testing. The job market it's wild right now.
2:36, that's all you kinda need to get from this video
It took this long to realize all these. Well, I am glad you did
I'm developing using Copilot and no-code apps.
I taught myself assembly language, and published software on the Amiga and Palmpilot, but struggled to learn object oriented, high-level languages.
You don't have to. Just learn Rust. Knowing Assembly and Rust can make you very valuable system engineer.
@@fwsuperhero1 a system ENGINEERs job is littererly about planning and coding well structured system, and a well structured system NEEDS classes and effectively used objects
@@jespertordebringjansson2290 Do you think there are no well structured systems written in functional language with no classes?
The golden days are over.
I meet all the requirements of the Job post mentioned in this video, but my problem is that i am just postponing the process of applying (probably scared to face the reality), i just feel like i need to build more projects, and learn more and more.. what should i do?
Same man, for some reason despite all my time learning, I still feel inadequate
The end of the " -Self-Taught- Programmer " ~ AI
The end of 'Humankind'
- AI & Capitalism
As someone who has done coding somewhat, seems to be the value will be found in other aspects of a programming job. Aka. project management, developing full-stack and not just a front end, knowing new tools to implement the best ones, augumenting AI into apps, knowledge of the broader infra etc... Aka. its never been just about knowing how to code and with AI, the coding part will be much less important and devalued.
As a self-taught engineer who transitioned about 9 years ago, I completely agree, this is the kind of advice I give people when they ask about how to get into the industry.
There is no self-taught engineer. Hopefully, in a civilized country, calling yourself engineer and having responsibilities that comes with it , comes with a proper degree, not from youtube videos or udemy courses.
@@PimpofChaos What an incredibly arrogant thing to say, I'll be sure to inform my company that evidently, I'm not an engineer actually
@@mercantilistic You should inform yourself first about what title means. Since you can not call yourself a medicinal doctor, you can't call yourself engineer by youtube videos. It is a protected title in most western countries and comes with legal responsibilities and liabilities. If you haven't understand in which aspect I am talking about, don't bother. You are not the audience I am targeting.
@@PimpofChaos Do you ever get tired of making up random shit? Engineer is not a protected title, which is why in the software industry all the programmers are called software engineers. I'm sorry this doesn't follow your world view, but it is a fact.
@@mercantilisticAll programmers are definitely not called software engineers. As I told you, I am talking about civilized countries. Not the countries where codecamp graduates can call themselves engineer.
Brother you are right ! because if the hiring market tough for the students graduate from college, definitely this going to be tough for self thought guys ! Anyway Tnx.
How about I make a bot that applies to jobs for me, and have this bot include itself as experience on my resume?
The bar keeps getting risen while the reward continuously shrinks. Something is gonna break eventually.
In other news I think being an electrician or maybe a welder would be cool. Those are the routes I am considering if this whole computer science degree doesn't work.
In the event of nuclear fallout, these sound like useful skills to have.
Will you graduate soon?
@@arthfreestyle9974 3-4 semesters away. No particular rush though
Self-taught programming is not over (and these are words coming from DeVry grad, lol!).
What's coming to an end is the basic way to approach the job market. "Oh I just completed this bootcamp. Where's my job?" or worst: "In my portfolio, I have a basic website with a JavaScript snake game and timer. Where's my job?"
I don't get people sometimes. Literally, have the "masonic" powers of the internet right there in your hands, where you can basically build your own software and business from scratch without depending on getting hired. Even if you didn't want to do that, self-taught programmers should be making content doing things that seem impossible to the normal human being or figuring out what a company is struggling with and solving their problems.
My first tech job sought me out, but I didn't look for them. Why? 1. Jesus and 2. I had content out there that built a name & reputation for myself (without a portfolio).
People are not innovative enough with their job search, which means they don't stand out. The energy is focused on doing the wrong things.
Mane my guy said DEVRY! 😂 fytb! 😭
Can't forget the todo app tut...
Becoming a self-taught programmer has always been difficult. 2021 was anomaly and the market is correcting. Anyone who is truly interested in programming and willing to put in the effort to learn can break into the industry. The key here is it takes a lot of work and effort, more than you think. Also it isn't going to happen in just a few months. It will take at least a year of dedicated study, if not closer to 2 years.
Couldn't have said it better myself
What should we study?
I would learn coding and then use that to supplement pre-existing knowledge. If you went to business school for example, combine that knowledge with analytics in python and then use chat gpt and become a super competitive marketing analyst. There are so many ways to work it, if you have tenacity you can thrive. You have to cash in on what makes you unique these days.
most people suck at interviewing and knowing how to properly look for a job. the degree doesn't matter, your job hunting method probably isn't the best approach if you cant get an interview, even in this market I get 5-7 recruiters a day in my linkedin inbox.
I recently helped my friend land a role in software engineering, no previous experience or degree, a shit ton of projects and a great approach to hunting for a job is all we needed.
work significantly smarter not harder, quality beats quantity , always more isn't always better.I used to think being a computer programmer would make me a magician, programmers are just slaves to whoever made the hardware and the operating system you're limited to.
The truth will set you free, this is pure truth.
Follow this advice, put in the work and you will succeed in landing a job in the industry.
Great video Son.
Kenny nothing about what you said is realistic. A computer science degree is great but it's going to take a few years of study beyond that (if you're talking just a few hours a week) to get up to speed with the sheer volume of APIs needed to complete a pro level app. I spent 18 months learning Java (completed a large Masterclass) and have spent another two years learning Kotlin and don't quite feel ready to interview yet. Not only do you need to know the API's, but you also need to know how to design with the right architecture as well as how to unit test effectively. Plus you have to have enough of all of this retained in memory so that you can code a whole app within a decent period of time. I know from learning Android programming, there is just a huge number of APIs that you need to know.
You spent 42 months self-studying, at that point you might as well have gone to get a degree, it also wouldn't have taken you 18 months to learn Java that way if you were engaged (i.e. with some practice developing your own stuff - which is what most people do anyways). It's not realistic to expect others to do that much studying outside of college.
To be fair, native app development does require you to learn quite a bit, but it's not like you have to memorise every single API. Native apps are also now specialised, for example, Discord mobile uses React Native - going native means maintaining multiple codebases for each OS instead, it only makes sense for performance reasons or device-specific reasons. So maybe native app developers have higher requirements because the only reason to be making native apps is for specialised apps or dealing with legacy apps.
I could not disagree more. I spent 18 months and could've spent a lot more. I was focused on building real apps. I already have a math degree.@@mazedeux
8 years in mobile development here, and I'm still copy pasting my own classes from project to project, or using them as reference because I dont remember by heart everything.
And actually that's ok
you're missing so much information about this. a computer science degree teaches you a ton of things most self taught developers are clueless about. many of the skills aren't as practical or important, but anybody serious about their career should be coding and learning while in college - it only makes your classes easier. i don't have a degree and didn't need one but i needed to work very hard for a long time to get where i am. if i had to start from scratch i'd probably go to school.
@@Justin-fq8dt he said "beyond" the degree meaning you need to be self-taught AND get the degree now, so you're simply agreeing with them.
should learn ios or web dev?
Hi all, need your advice. Im a cross platform mobile dev (Flutter) with 5 years experience.
Where should I expand my expertise in 2024:
1. Learn native mobile dev.(Kotlin/Swift)?
2. Or learn Backend (NodeJS,. JavaScript)?
Backend. And don't do Node.JS, do something that gets you closer to the hardware.
Learning how to develop for a specific mobile architecture basically comes down to using the vendor's framework, which is subject to change and may lose popularity for reasons entirely outside your control. Learning backend development protects you from that - it doesn't matter if the user device is something completely different in 10 years time, it'll still talk to a backend.
As for your language approach - Node.JS and JavaScript in general are not real programming, they're feeding an interpreter, which means you don't really know what's happening under the hood. This is 'fine' in the sense that the primary focus is producing code that solves a business problem, but you're not going to ever develop expertise without a stable target platform, which JavaScript/Node.JS are not. We've used von Neumann machines for 70 years, so they're unlikely to go away anytime soon. Can you say the same for Node.JS, given the fact that frameworks rise and fall on roughly a 5-10 year cadence?
Write to the hardware itself, and you'll be fine. You'll be able to provide solutions that are actually beneficial, rather than just cookie-cutter stiching together of the latest framework du jour. You will develop a deep understanding of how computers actually work, rather than being reset to a junior every 5 years when some new framework appears and becomes the new hot topic.
@@aaaabbbbbcccccc Mostly factual. However, somebody's gotta write the front-end.
@@yolo_city5782 Yes, but there are far too many frontend developers chasing far too few jobs, and backend developers can always write frontend code if needed. Frontend developers can't write backend code. It is strictly better to be a backend developer, it's just (claimed to be) easier to be a frontend one. It's not actually easier, but that's just because the industry has overcomplicated frontend for no justifiable reason.
I’m a the exception to the rule! I’m naturally talented programmer it’s comes naturally for me 💻💻💻💻💻 being on computer all day is my dream job
Hey Kenny, I am almost 2 years in to my first dev job. I have been trying to push myself more recently learning as much as I can about other technologies outside of my job. I am trying to level up as much as I can while I am at my current job with the hope of finding a new job when this time comes. I figure however I will wait until I am at least 3 years of experience with this current job before moving somewhere else. How much do you think having 3 years of experience at the same job will help me to find another? Do employers even care about this or are they just gonna grill you with difficult coding challenges in the interview regardless of experience with the hope of weeding people out.
Thanks
To me, a resume like yours would probably end up going in the shredder shortly after it was received. You're what is known as a hopper, and it's a big red flag for most companies. You barely got your feet wet in the real world, and you're already planning your first hop. What you're doing is demonstrating that you have no desire to become a valuable asset to a development team. Why would a company want to invest in you when they know that in two years there's a 90% chance you're going to bail on them?
I've never hired anyone at my company who wasn't at their first job for at least five years.
@@NobodyYouKnow98 Really? What makes those 2 years any different? All you're doing is throwing a bias at people for following advice to get paid 50% more by changing jobs. You're throwing out a whole lot of people who have the itch to improve and advance themselves from a silly bias based on out dated ideas of 'loyalty' that employers no longer reward. You should be looking at someone digging into the market and planning their career from the start like this as an ambitious person you can hire again when you've moved up elsewhere or see them as a contact in a company you want to work for down the road. Check your out dated biases at the door. This is the state of the present. The talent you've passed up for this silly perspective would be welcome in lots of places for thinking ahead and planning.
@@mattwhitehead32
Where am I more likely to get talent? From some 22 year old kid that's job-hopping, or from someone with 15 years of experience who wants job security and good pay in exchange for company loyalty?
How often do you think bouncing around will work to your advantage? You think you can get 50% pay increases an infinite number of times every two years?
If bouncing around was the secret to getting a high-paying position, then everyone by the age of 30 should be making $250,000.
And you're telling ME that I'm not living in the present? You're clearly delusional.
@@NobodyYouKnow98 it's not me you're arguing with. Go search "changing jobs every 2-3 years" and argue with all of those people. And it's not 50% every job, it's 50% more over time. There's data to back it up. Don't argue with people having done zero research on their statements.
@@NobodyYouKnow98 5 years lol. C’mon!! Get real man!! Most devs certainly do not stay this long at their first job. I’ll take a pass at applying to what ever bs company you work for but thanks for answering a question nobody asked you.
so interesting and realistic video that into web development field
As a professional coder, this is the first "become a programmer" video that I believe gives solid advice. Nice
"Professional coder"
Making game mods also can work to building experience and a free source for hiring managers to look at.
Thank you
Its because everyone is learning the bare basics of frameworks and all going for the same Frontend React Position.