An Over-Analysis of FROM Software Boss Design: Demon's Souls
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- Ever since I played Dark Souls, I've wanted to toss my opinions in the great all-consuming void that is Dark Souls Video Essays - so today we're analyzing Demon's Souls; the game that started the formula that would later evolve into the Soulslike Genre.
This is the sixth part of a series going through all of FROM Software's bosses, analyzing what each of them attempt to do, how they attempt to do it, and how well they succeed (or how it is they fail).
0:00 - Introduction
1:57 - Vanguard
5:50 - Phalanx
8:15 - Tower Knight
11:52 - Armor Spider
14:17 - Fool's Idol
16:56 - Adjudicator
19:31 - Leechmonger
21:24 - Flamelurker
24:55 - Maneater
27:59 - Old Hero
29:53 - Dirty Colossus
31:50 - Dragon God
35:04 - Old Monk
37:30 - Storm King
39:59 - Maiden Astrea
43:04 - Penetrator
46:25 - False King Allant
49:55 - True King Allant
51:40 - Epilogue
#demonssouls #demonssoulsps5 #demonssoulsremake #bossfight #videoessay #eldenring
This is just my interpretation, but I saw the fight against True King Allant as a way to further convince you that the bad ending is the wrong choice. You’re supposed to think that you’ll be unstoppable when you choose the bad ending, but you’re just gonna end up as a blob with no way to defend yourself when it’s all over. I don’t know if that’s what they were going for but that’s how I saw it at least.
This. When I first saw him, my immediate thought was "Chaos Spawn from Warhammer". He sought out power, made a Faustian pact with some Eldritch demonic entity and has suffered the consequences for it in his very flesh.
Regarding True King Allant, I believe the core take away from that fight us meant to be... Pity.
He is utterly pathetic, completely helpless to stop you. And unlike Astrea, who was a case of killing an innocent healer for your selfish quest, Allant is a truly terrible person, the one responsible for Bolitaria being infested with demons.
You don't feel anything from his speech because your not meant to. He's just scrambling whatever he thinks has the best chance of you sparing his life as his lump of a body fruitlessly lashes out.
This fight shows how such an initially powerful figure has sunk so low due to his own hubris, similar to finding Gywn a mere hollow in DS1, nothing but the final stepping stone to your goal.
Astrea is not an innocent healer and your quest is not selfish. She is a demon.
For the Flamelurker, if you use the purple shield found in 1-1, since it has 90% fire defence, it makes the fight stupidly easy, just rotate around the boss and punish the attacks
Quick note about Old King Allant, in the original version you needed to beat all the other Archdemons before entering 1-4. It was a really dumb decision to remove that barrier in the remake tbh, but yeah Old King Allant is definitely intended to be the final challenge of the game
I've played the PS3 version. You only needed to defeat one archdemon to access 1-3. There's no other barriers to progression.
he called this game a remaster LOL
@@carlschrappen9712 Huh, I played it like a year ago and I could have sworn there was a second barrier past the penetrator arena where you needed to complete all the other Archstones. Maybe I got confused but it's weird that my brain could have made up something so specific
@@Doudoussin I get it, I misremember or forget stuff all the time. I know that I'm right, I've beat DeS at least 5 times by now, with my last playthrough being as recent as December.
@@carlschrappen9712I had recently played the PS3 version and you're right kind off. It's just Old King that is blocked though, Penetrator isn't so you can go do 1-3 for the most part until you get to Allant.
Literally started binging these videos this morning and this video just pops up lmao
A note on flamelurker is that he exploits tendencies from other souls games. Instead of rolling into the strikes, roll back wards. You can also bait out final attacks in strings by strafing backwards. This should help a lot.
Oh damn. Found this series recently and finished the last part literally this morning. Very fortuitous timing.
Also I for one would love to see you revisit this when you have a few more runs done to see if your opinions have changed
Same except found it the same day he posted the sekiro video
An analysis of bosses from the Blasphemous duology would be amazing, I like the way you narrate these videos and often find myself at an agreement with the pros and cons you point out in each boss design, swag vids 🎷🐛
I feel like the vibe that true king allant goes for is more explored conceptually with things like the frenzied flame
Yeah, but can we talk for a moment about how the Penetrator is the best animated boss ever? It's SO satisfying to watch.
The magic circles on the floor in the fools idol is the most unique aspect about it, having to see where they’re placed and remember them is fun
I don't know about all, but some of the criticism on the remaster rises from inconsistencies with the original's details. (i.e. the original color palettes / symbolism behind them being changed for more "aesthetic" good looks)
Some souls-likes I'd love to see boss rankings for:
Blasphemous
Grime
Salt and Sanctuary
These are all indie games so they should take fairly little to complete. Aside from those onegame that's not a soulslike but I still think would work very well with this video format is Everhood, a short boss rush game with a bombastic soundtrack and encounters that are way more impressive than they have the right to be.
Had to do a double take when I heard the subscriber number. Quality of the video made me think you had at least 10 times that. Fantastic work, can't wait for elden ring
My first and favorite souls game
Same... I remember the first time I saw the trailer back in 2007 or 8. There was someone else who said it was too dark, as in, he couldn’t see, so he didn't want to get it. I loved it.
Yup, the atmosphere is still unmatched
Imo it IS worth seeking out the ps3 version. It is so much nicer than the remaster.
It’s not. To people who haven’t played, don’t listen to these people.
LETS GOOOOOO JUST WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR
Here is an attempt by a content creator to respect the original, the progenitor of the series even though he didn't play it at launch. I respect this. Too many people started with DS3 and don't respect Demon's.
Bro please do one of these for the Lies of P bosses at some point. That game is amazing
I was personally incapable of defeating the Flamelurker without using the internet for tips.
The main strategy i found on the internet is to roll/run away from the Flamelurkers attacks and then run back in to punish.
Rolling away from it works better then rolling towards it because of the lingering fire hit box after every attack.
I also found that implementing that same strategy of rolling away from attacks worked much better on nearly every boss, enemy and attack compared to rolling towards them in Demon Soul's.
Flamelurker teaches the importance of directional rolling, or at least it should be teaching that but i didn't learn that at all.
That could be the fault of the boss or my own fault, my brother did figure that out on his own so i guess I can't blame the boss entirely.
I was just looking for this one thank you
ive played the original ps3 version, armoured spider is definetely just as bad there
also i feel that old king allant was nerfed somewhat in the ps5 version, i definetely had a way harder time in the ps3 version.
@@labrysstrikeI think that's just a byproduct of experience. Your first playthrough of a game is going to be much harder than the second, unless you intentionally nerf yourself, so even on a different PS, your experience with Demon's Souls will have been easier the second time around.
@@labrysstrikeThe only things easier about him are the runback and (similar to the spider) better telegraphed aoe
I was hoping it would be PS3 footage. However I still recognize what you did here as something great and I like that you addressed it at the start.
There's an overall aesthetic cohesion in the original and intention behind a lot of the choices. Many of which Bluepoint ended up changing. The overall quality of each asset Bluepoint made is absolutely immense, big kudos to every artist. It's a monumental task and they did succeed in many areas. But one of the areas they did not succeed in is with some of the designs which miss the mark entirely on what the intended purpose was.
And as massive the music is, it completely changes the vibe of a game that thrives on it's vibe.
Also Vanguard's and Penetrator visuals were heavily changed. Vanguard has a much more generic design.
Final note. It's interest that your take on that is "Save the world" or "Let the demons win". I feel the ending is much more ambiguous. On one end the world has a new monumental and we know where that leads. And the soul arts brought prosperity for a long while to Boletaria. With that gone, who is to say what will happen with all the established systems?
Can the world even be mended without it?
I'm not saying becoming a demon fixes that. But I don't think the option of putting the old one back to Slumber is the games indication that you saved the world. I think it has a much more contextual meaning.
There is literally no difference
@@boshwa20 huh huh, look at the old design for vanguard and the new one, the guy in the video gets a Different interpretation of what the boss's themes are becasue bluepoint decided to make the boss more generic
@@boshwa20 How did you come to that conclusion?
Found this series around the DS2 analysis and it’s been awesome hearing your thoughts about the boss designs in these games! If youd like another game series with at least some emphasis on boss design, I’d highly recommend you check out the Darksiders games (especially 3, as it’s very heavily inspired by soulslikes)
Really excited to see the Elden Ring breakdowns!
I'm a little concerned about Elden Ring because of how many optional, copy/paste, repeat-with-adjustment, repeat-with-combos, etc bosses there are. It's not just a question of mass, it's a question of formatting, when arenas and stats change but movesets don't, and sometimes bosses show up alone or in a gang? Auuugh.
Hot take- i liked flamelurker. It required previse dodging, but it is fair, seeing as you can easily stun lock him for 3 or 4 hits. I was on my a-game, but i beat him first try, because you can learn that moveset. I had a much harder time fighting penetrator. His delayed hits are hard to time properly.
I was waiting for this video for some time! (I believe the algorithm first recommended your videos to me around the time you posted the Sekiro one)
Some thoughts:
Flamelurker is the hardest boss to me, both in the original game and the remake.
Leechmonger was always so easy, with an fire-infused sword you just need to mash R1 and he's dead in no time.
Astraea was always my favorite piece in this game. On my first playthrough I tried to avoid Garl, its damn hard to even get to Astraea, and then she just uses a God's Wrath and I'm dead, and if you try ranged she just heals faster unless you have a pretty damaging bow. When I decided to fight Garl, it was somewhat hard but doable, and when I won Astraea just handed me the Demon Soul and died, and I was "WOW WHAT JUST HAPPENED HERE?". Really different from almost everything I had played at the time.
Penetrator was always kinda bland to me because I explored the map fully, and if you rescue Biorr he just pops in and smash Penetrator alone. Only when I played the Remake I did the fight without his help, but already knowing his moveset he was not too much of a challenge.
Allant tho, is a hell of an opponent, and is a hell of a boss run. Last time i fought this demon he sucked one level from me, the single Strenght point he needed to rend my Dragon Bone Smasher unusable for the rest of the fight.
Now I sit and wait for Elden Ring bosses video.
For Flamelurker, I completely played it a lot differently. Due to having a small argo range, I used stealth, yes STEALTH, as a means for clip off damage which felt somewhat satisfying to me.
Outside of this, I recently played the game through emulation and I think it works for me a lot more due to its structure. I prefer how archstones are structured, still giving each and every area with care.
It's top 3 for me in terms of FromSoftware games. (Still haven't played sekiro and AC4A)
Binged these videos in order, and I have to say. Seeing the evolution of Fromsoft's boss design really makes Elden Ring make more sense
Its dungeons, catacombs, caves, and Hero's Graves all remind me of the Chalice Dungeons, with the "bosses" in each one feeling more akin to Sekiro's elite enemies/mini-bosses. Having characters like Margit fight you several times reminds me of Midir's bombing run nand bridge fight as well as Freyja's ambushes in NG+. Bosses changing their movesets between encounters(sewer Mohg vs actual Mohg) remind me of the differences between something like Lights on/Lights off Lost Sinner or Mytha with and without the poison.
Elden Ring is going to be extremely interesting, as it feels like a combination of everything that Fromsoft has previously done, just... a combination that could have used a bit more polishing to level out
I wonder if Shadow of the Erdtree will come out by the time the Elden Ring video drops
22:52 - 23:00 or you can use a melee weapon with magic scaling...
goat series is BACK
i need a souls boss geneology chart showing the inspiration of each boss type from game to game like some sort of evolutionary tree map, also the armored spider is just as bad or worse in the original
algorithm hoo-ha-ha! i luv these vids, ur doing amazing :D
I hope if Demon’s Souls ever comes to PC, someone makes a mod combining Tower Knight and Penetrator into a duo boss with a good boss area.
Only played the PS5 Version, loved it a lot, but yes i am with you on this. Most of the Bosses i see the same way. I believe this one hit differently way back when, but i do believe aswell that even in the remake you can see how it all came into existence and i adored that about the game. Imo Demon's Souls is my third favorite of the Souls Series (not Counting Sekiro which ran out of competition and Elden Ring aswell, at least for me, since both of them do so much so differently, it doesnot feel fair to compare them), when it comes down to counting DS1-3, DeS and BB it came in right after DS2 and BB for me as my third favorite game.
Game recommendation: Furi
it's only boss fights, and makes soulsbornes feel overloaded with exposition in comparison
Boss fights aren’t the whole purpose of these games. I like Furi, but they feel distinctly different
@@charlestonobryant807 I am unsure where anyone stated the boss fights are the sole purpose of soulsborne games. My statement was that Furi is all boss fights and even more tight-lipped with the story
FURI is one of my favorite boss-rush games! I haven't gone back in a while, but definitely a game I want to dive into at some point.
We're not getting Boss design analysis from Armored Core 1-6 before Elden Ring?
To answer what the spellcaster above the Fools idol adds. Youre rewarded for thinking about the practical choice rather than the moral choice by killing him. Its sad that to this day Fromsoft still hasn’t topped the many of the unique bosses in Demons souls in their later games.
Big time agree, idk why every CZcams video that talks about it has nothing good to say.
@@melonrats Because to them Demons souls is supposed to be a high paced action game where you do a hundred anime flips in armor instead of a game where you have to think about your approach
@@DionPanday exactly. Demon Souls was about a careful approach and tbh felt like a dungeon crawl. Everything felt heavy and deliberate.
@@DionPandayPersonally, I prefer bosses that engage the core mechanics of these games, the combat system. Bosses like Armor Spider and Adjudicator don't make me think about my approach, they just limit the ways I can engage with the boss.
@@carlschrappen9712 But the combat is one of the weaker sides of souls games, it’s all the systems working together in demons souls that make it so great. The combat is nothing special
I'll never forgive the PS5 version for butchering the score. Every theme is basically the same. Dark Souls OSTs in their worst forms: aimless, overcomplicated choral music with bombastic drums and brass.
Thank you. It really ruins the atmosphere for a good number of bosses. It sounds really try hard.
the soundtrack is a microcosm of the problem with the entire remake. bluepoint doesn’t understand what makes the game special so they just changed stuff because they had the budget to. it leads to the whole product being generic and far too bombastic and “epic” when the original game is super idiosyncratic and solemn
Cry more. The game is perfect
ESPECIALLY Maiden Astraea. It completely misses the mark in my opinion. Somewhere I saw it mentioned that the OG soundtrack is chamber music and the remake is orchester, and it gives the whole game a different vibe. And not for the better.
@@iQuitGirls99The weird thing about maiden astrea's theme in the remake is that it's super bombastic and epic, meanwhile the fight itself is just parrying garl vinland 50 times or shooting astrea herself with a bow from the top of the room. Just a complete disconnect between the fight and music.
They shouldn't have changed the music if they were just going to keep the core gameplay and bosses the same.
I know there's always one comment like this for a hard boss, but I did have a surprisingly easy time against Flamelurker in my first play through, which admittedly was the magic class, which I think is the easiest way to get through Demon's Souls. I think it was less dodging and more just terrified running around and quickly locking on for a return blast. It felt a lot more involved than many magic class vs. boss fights going forward.
For someone playing the game for the first time in 2024 AND after playing all the other parts AND playing the remake, I don't think one can expect fairer takes. I played this all the way back in 2010 so the nostalgia is extremely strong, it's my favorite game ever and I enjoy all its decisions way more, also the OG is just another game entirely, I couldn't get through the remake so make sure to get your hands on it if you can. Shame about King Allant though, hopefully you can truly appreciate him on repeat playthroughs
It’s not another game entirely. You just suffer from bandwagon brainrot
@@ExpertContrarian you certainly wake up the wrong side of bed today
@@JuliusCaesar103says Mr Nitpick 😂
@@ExpertContrarian it's not a nitpick if the atmosphere and the soundtrack have taken a turn for the worse, especially since they're such big parts of the original
@@JuliusCaesar103saying slightly different visuals and music makes for an entirely different game when it plays exactly the same, is nitpicking. You people cry under every single video with PS5 footage 😂
With the Old Hero I believe if you hit him while he roars he knows where you are for a certain amount of time and yes Flamelurker is a lot easier with a high stability/flame resistant shield. Also Maneaters on ng+ on the ps3 version at least was the hardest fight for me.
I wonder if you'd ranked the Phalanx differently if you knew the remake greatly increased firebomb drop rates in Boletaria. In the original, you didn't have nearly as much resources for the fight.
It was pretty common in the og and there are firebombs you can pick up. Both times I fought phalanx in the og I ended up not even running out of firebombs.
It's not really necessary. You can pick up some turpentine in the level, put it on a two-handed weapon so your attacks don't recoil, and attacks the boss to hit as many of the blobs as possible. This will easily make short work of Phalanx.
YES
I'd love to see a video about Remnant 2
Finally!!!
Once you're done with Elden Ring you should do a video on Hollow Knight's bosses
Have I got great news about what game footage I just finished recording!
Nice.
just binged this entire thing while doing school cant wait for elden ring edit also most of these bosses lost atmosphere in the remake
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOO
I prefer the PS3 version myself. Personally I like this game much more than DS2.
you should specify this is the remake, some many artistic choices changed for no good reason. To the point that some of these aren't even Fromsoft Designed bosses anymore.
No, he doesn’t need to because the game plays the same
keen! thought you might not to DeS. popcorn ready
I love Armored Spider
John Demon’s
Nioh 2 boss design analysis when?
I appreciate you mentioning peoples preference for the ps3 version. It really is a shame that the aesthetics of demons original will most likely be lost to time.
I just completed Demon's Souls for the first time last night. While most of the bosses are fairly primitive or puzzley, I have to say that none of them were really lemons in comparison to later game bosses that happened to suck. Not counting the two dragons of course, those both sucked hard.
Literally just beat demons souls like an hour ago
14:40 lol twice
Why some people get confused with Remakes and Remasters😂
Maiden Astrea S and FKA F...? Doesn't make any sense.
Make a video about the actual demon souls
As soon as I saw the flame lurker grade I had the thought "I'll bet he's gonna gush about the old hero", I thought the ds2 list was going to be your magnum opus of bad takes but this is transcendental.
if you dont like it, you can stop watching 😂
@@ShupperDupper 😂😂😂😂😂
Pretty nuts that the deliberately anti-climactic final boss still filters people after 15 years.
I really don't understand those who think the PS3 version is superior. In my experience, I played Demon's Souls (PS3) on launch day as I had been excited about it enough to pre-order... and I hated it. The controls are so clunky it's neigh unplayable. I left the series alone until I got excited about Bloodborne and decided to give it another try. I loved Bloodborne and so went back to Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2 and enjoyed them both, then Dark Souls 3 came out and quickly became my favorite game of the bunch so I decided to go back to Demon's Souls with this new outlook on the series. I still hated it.
The remaster on PS5 I still don't love, but it's at least playable now. I was able to finish the remaster without hating it, even if I still have no desire to ever go back to it. And it's still all about those controls, on the PS3 they're just bad.
The PS5 version is basically exactly the same except for graphics, music, atmosphere and some quality of life improvements. Outside of that the core gameplay is the exact same. If you came away not hating Demons souls with the remaster, that’s probably because you know what you’re doing now, not because the remaster is better. When people talk about the original being better, they mean the atmosphere, and the music. Which are all (in my opinion). Superior.
Aimless? I really don’t think you understand what you’re talking about buddy.
@dingo1547 Except I still can't stand the PS3 version. I still find the controls to slow and stiff and that version still feels unfair. Even after beating the remaster I tried it again and still hate it. It just feels bad to play.
@@VideoGameVillians the controls in the remake are literally the exact same except for full directional rolling
@@rybread9574 No... When I press attack, roll, or use item buttons in the PS3 version there is a devastatingly aggravating delay that makes the game hard to play. Even back when it came out it was bad. The PS5 version, on the other hand, feels responsive. It's a matter of the game working, or not working in a way that feels reasonable.
I WANT to like this game the way everyone else does and I just can't, I've tried so many times to like it, but it's just bad. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I've probably put more effort into trying to like it than almost any other player but I honestly can't see how the PS3 version was able to garner the popularity to warrant an entire series of actually good games that I'm glad were made.
I feel like you have a lot of work to do to make your content better, you call it analysis but you do nothing but surface level observations. For example Maiden Astraea is not the "saint" you so much believe she is. Just take a look at the 2 spells you can make out of her souls and read their description but that would require some time and effort. I'll unsub the moment you drop the Elden Ring video since I already saw the other ranks you made and I am already disappointed but just a little invested to see the end of it 🤣
The literal fuck are you even talking about? This dude gives tons of valid points and observations about where we came from to where we are today, and even why that is, you're actually smoking crack and have a stick of your ass if THAT'S how you're viewing this guy's content.
Him saying Astraea is a saint is literally the least important thing about it, you're not a clown, you're the entire circus kid.
You wanna talk about effort yet have nothing on your own channel that shows you would even have any idea of what you're doing 😂 or talking about.
You missed the entire point of the video.
Said the furry 🤣 I don't need to be a youtuber know good from band content. Your point makes no sense
the way you keep over emphasizing the demon’s in demon’s souls is driving me insane. good video otherwise…
did you just call this game a remaster within the first 30 sec of the video? LOL fail. ds1 is a remaster, this game is a remake
Yea that’s a common mistake though it’s really only a remake in terms of visuals and audio, mechanically it’s more of a remaster so it’s kinda both at the same time.