I have seen this video before but always enjoy seeing a couple buddies just having fun listening to music , very educational as well. .. the NoRez is the real deal!
Awesome. I've got some mid-80's Fortes that I'm still in love with. I'd love to know more about the upgrade kit, although my version is going to be an older one.
I bought this kit a year ago right before Covid, but couldn’t do the upgrade until last weekend, with a friend who builds their own speakers and works in vintage hi-fi full-time. I have to be honest-they sounded a lot better before. Everything sounds like there’s a pillow in front the speakers, or as if you’re listening from behind. Vocals across every genre are now buried in the mix. And they require a lot more power to reach the same decibel level. I’m so upset.
Just wondering if you've had your hands on the newer Klipsch Forte IV and if so how did it do and what about an upgrade kit? Thanks and keep up the great work.
How to improve any Klipsch speaker? That's easy. Physically time align the drivers. You'll get a much more coherent sound field. If your not an analog person like myself, then you can digitally align the drivers. This can be done, with a powerful enough, open architecture processor, while leaving the speaker completely intact. Of course the strengthening of the box and reducing vibrations will help too.
@@dannyrichie9743 au contraire. Proper time alignment will allow you to create correct passive filters that aren't purposely screwing up the phase to try to compensate for the driver offsets. Then you will hear real coherency. Many years ago, I worked in the movie industry. The std speaker was dual 15's and a misaligned horn (700 hz x-over). We created a new speaker (3 way instead of 2) time aligned drivers. The difference was mind blowing. I then learned how to time align similar passive pa speakers using digital processing and no changes to the passive x-over. Again the coherency difference was mind blowing. Time alignment counts no matter what the big brains postulate.
@@jked7463 First of all you can't physically align the horns on one baffle. And offsetting them will put the mid-range horn way out in front of the tweeter (smaller) horn. And that will significantly disrupt the response. And most digital filters that allow for manipulation of time arrivals also come at the expense of a D/A converter, power supply, and analog output stage of a $29 CD player. Several quite popular models can really suck the life out of the music. And we do have kits with physically aligned drivers as well: gr-research.com/obseries.aspx And they are spectacular.
@@dannyrichie9743 of course you can't physically align the drivers with a flat baffle. I am not saying you can. I am saying to create a new cabinet that aligns the drivers. Look up community SLS speakers. The drivers are aligned. There are other horn speakers with aligned drivers and the horn sticks out. The sound of these high end speakers is exemplary. It can be done. Dont let your brain limit what can be done.
And regarding digital aligning drivers, i was using pro gear. So no, it did not suck the life out. I did it in speakers in churches, specifically, choir fill speakers where time aligning the drivers made the chour intelligibility go up tremendously.
A pair of Klipsch KG-4’s are on my project list, how do you glue the bracing in place? (Adhesive, sanding, etc.) Also, is there a preferred wood for these braces? Thanks
I saw that. The Forte IV is out now. I’m trying to sort out whether to go for the Cornwall IV’s, or get a pair of Forte iii’s and add Danny’s upgrades, saving some money for upstream gear. The room is 5,000 cf.
Unless a speaker company is designing a speaker with no limits, to be their 'statement' speaker so to speak, they are always designing to meet a price point. There are always compromises. What Danny does, after the fact, is upgrade speakers, as if the original designers had a substantially higher price point to design the speaker to. But also, they may have different design philosophies. Danny's design philosophy would probably not fit with Klipsch.
@@pandstar Not always. As Danny has shown on other videos, sometimes Klipsch just doesn't do a proper job with the crossover and to fix it doesn't cost anymore. Remember, these models cost already less than the previous line so they are aheadvof the curve.
Because Klipsch knows what the problem is and buyers dont care. The copper cones, which cause the problem look pretty. The only distinctive part of Klipsch is the horn anyways. The rest is generic, but it's not enough to distinguish a brand. In defense of Klipsch they dont promote binding post upgrades and wood blocks to elevate your speaker cables.
Quit reason why I'm asking a few questions because I'd like to buy a pair of these speakers I finally have the money I can spend on some nice equipment like a new Marantz receiver and whatnot only thing I've been using right now is a 12 in 3 Way Pioneer speakers I picked up when I was a kid 1998 so I would assume these would hundred percent sound better than what I have and I wonder if the newer Klipsch speakers have any updates on them
Considering the price of these speakers, and the fact that the woofer is a pressed steel casket, is just utterly insane. A speaker of this price should have much much higher quality on both the elements and crossover.. no excuses at all . NOT worth the price they're asking.
@@roguemodel I agree, $3 000 a piece for that junk? It does show that maybe high end components aren't that important if all these reviewers go ga,ga over these? But $6,000 ,is a total rip off. I'm not kidding, go look up a youtube video of a svs ultra take apart video and look at this crap!🙄🤔🤪🤯🤯! Even worse, go look up a New Klipsch horn take apart video! $16 000 for crap parts! $16,000!!!!🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🥵🥵🥶 If you breath on the finish it scratchs more or less!🤭🤭🤭🤫🤫🙄🙄😜
@@bigjay1970 You are exactly right! Most people don't know, but Eminence builds most of Klipsch's drivers now. For a fraction of the price, you could build the cabinets with a better crossover network as well as better drivers that would simply blow anything that Klipsch makes away. I built my own home subwoofers, 2 units, each with two 12 inch drivers in a push pull configuration powered by a single Parasound A21 amplifier that No company out there can touch. And I've owned Rel, SVS, Velodyne, M&K, as well as many others. These companies cut corners to make a pricepoint to turn huge profits and all you pay for is the damn name. Eventually more audiphiles will learn this and realize that you can build incredible speakers for way less cash.
I was also in the market to buy some Klipsch Forte IVs......these videos have completely ruined by view of Klipsch speakers. Why the HELL would I spend $5k on speakers that have so many glaring flaws? Sometimes I wish I hadn't gone down this rabbit hole, there's no such thing as a "good deal", just money hungry companies ripping people off for rediculous amoutns of money for cheap shit parts.
It takes Danny and his extensive knowledge and experience to fix the issues these so called established and experienced manufactures cant do... and then they charge thousands for something that was cheap to put together and not very well engineered to begin with.
To be fair, the Forte IV's don't have all the glaring flaws of the 3 they replaced. Though if you still thing they're not worth it, in the Jay's Iyagi review of the Tekton Perfect Set 210 for 2k, he said they sounded a lot like the Forte IV's.
I’m not even going to bother upgrading my RP-600M! I was looking at the Heresy 4. If someone can recommend a brand or speaker that may need some upgrading or sounds god out of the box? Thank you
When you claim binding posts affect sound and crossovers affect off axis frequency response it makes me wonder if you sell Covid 19 test kits as well. Do you cryogenically freeze your inductors? What utter crap. FYI- the jagged frequency response of these speakers is caused by the metal woofer, and if you just replace or dampen it the problem goes away. Big reason older Klipsch use conventional non metal woofers and hence have much flatter curves. High end audio dealers have known this for decades. In any respect, I was planning on ordering a speaker kit from you but you lost credibility and will be looking elsewhere.
You're an outright idiot. You have no idea how hilarious your rant is to me. Please buy a pair of Klipsch speakers and stay away from this channel. The audiophile community needs fewer morons like you.
100% correct. This guy is no better than a shady car salesman. I've asked this Danny guy many times to prove his opinion that cables with PVC jackets sound worse than other cables with an A/B test. Or show us some measurements to back up his claims. But of course he always deflects his answers and never really has a solid answer. He's just another snake oil salesmen.
I suggest you buy Bose speakers. I have no idea why an idiot such as yourself even watches these videos. No one is going to bother with your nonsensical questions when your biases are so deeply ingrained. For one, of course crossovers affect of axis response. Do you have some sort of brain injury? When the Tekton Double Impacts were criticized for a narrow horizontal dispersion, what do you think Eric did to widen it? He adjusted the crossover. Christ, you morons are all over the internet. Dan has been building award winning designs for years and you think somehow you have more knowledge or credibility than he? Lol.
Too many people are so entitled and expect everything for free. They want you to look up all the specs for the speakers they own, then research all the options, and give them a menu of solutions.
I have seen this video before but always enjoy seeing a couple buddies just having fun listening to music , very educational as well. .. the NoRez is the real deal!
Awesome. I've got some mid-80's Fortes that I'm still in love with. I'd love to know more about the upgrade kit, although my version is going to be an older one.
Cool vid. Enjoyed it! I owned an “original” pair of ‘86 oiled-oak Fortes paired w a 125w Marantz 2325. Can you say, “lovely”!
I bought this kit a year ago right before Covid, but couldn’t do the upgrade until last weekend, with a friend who builds their own speakers and works in vintage hi-fi full-time. I have to be honest-they sounded a lot better before. Everything sounds like there’s a pillow in front the speakers, or as if you’re listening from behind. Vocals across every genre are now buried in the mix. And they require a lot more power to reach the same decibel level. I’m so upset.
Maybe the upgrade kit needs time to break in? Are the tweeters or midrange still working?
Thanks for sharing that information
What a hell are you talking about?
Would love to see you do the Cornwall IV.
Are these brand of speakers really worth buying if you have to do this much upgrading. Wouldn't it be better to just build your own?
A speaker made and designed without a compromise in parts will cost a TON. Yes, you're fat better off making a diy with gif parts to begin with
KSP 400s are the best hands down. Ultra rare and sonically perfect no need for crites or any other analysis. Let your ears do the talking
I've bookmarked your site and looking forward to the availability of the upgrade!
Would this kit apply to the IV or would you need to conduct an analysis?
Given the cost of the Forte 3. it's pretty sad that they saved just a few $ by using cheap crossover parts.
Overpriced crap
I want to get a Klipsch Forte 4 and bring it over Danny. 😁
Just wondering if you've had your hands on the newer Klipsch Forte IV and if so how did it do and what about an upgrade kit? Thanks and keep up the great work.
If the jvc classic happened i would be stoked.
A concern is whenever original designs are altered in ANY way, the resale value suffers, no matter how much you call it an upgrade.
Typically our upgrades add value.
Brilliant video, i really enjoyed it!
Hello. i dont see this kit on the webpage , i know the video is old, but would u be able to still make this crossover for my forte III , Thanks
@Danny Richie. Could you do a video on how to fix a speaker’s Z-Offset (time alignment of drivers) through the crossover network?
How to improve any Klipsch speaker? That's easy. Physically time align the drivers. You'll get a much more coherent sound field. If your not an analog person like myself, then you can digitally align the drivers. This can be done, with a powerful enough, open architecture processor, while leaving the speaker completely intact. Of course the strengthening of the box and reducing vibrations will help too.
That won't fix the issues cause by the passive filters.
@@dannyrichie9743 au contraire. Proper time alignment will allow you to create correct passive filters that aren't purposely screwing up the phase to try to compensate for the driver offsets. Then you will hear real coherency. Many years ago, I worked in the movie industry. The std speaker was dual 15's and a misaligned horn (700 hz x-over). We created a new speaker (3 way instead of 2) time aligned drivers. The difference was mind blowing. I then learned how to time align similar passive pa speakers using digital processing and no changes to the passive x-over. Again the coherency difference was mind blowing. Time alignment counts no matter what the big brains postulate.
@@jked7463 First of all you can't physically align the horns on one baffle. And offsetting them will put the mid-range horn way out in front of the tweeter (smaller) horn. And that will significantly disrupt the response.
And most digital filters that allow for manipulation of time arrivals also come at the expense of a D/A converter, power supply, and analog output stage of a $29 CD player. Several quite popular models can really suck the life out of the music.
And we do have kits with physically aligned drivers as well: gr-research.com/obseries.aspx
And they are spectacular.
@@dannyrichie9743 of course you can't physically align the drivers with a flat baffle. I am not saying you can. I am saying to create a new cabinet that aligns the drivers. Look up community SLS speakers. The drivers are aligned. There are other horn speakers with aligned drivers and the horn sticks out. The sound of these high end speakers is exemplary. It can be done. Dont let your brain limit what can be done.
And regarding digital aligning drivers, i was using pro gear. So no, it did not suck the life out. I did it in speakers in churches, specifically, choir fill speakers where time aligning the drivers made the chour intelligibility go up tremendously.
Any chance you could provide 3d print files for boards to mount the crossovers? That would be very helpful.
A pair of Klipsch KG-4’s are on my project list, how do you glue the bracing in place? (Adhesive, sanding, etc.)
Also, is there a preferred wood for these braces?
Thanks
KG-4's are impossible to brace front to rear due to the large passive radator on the back. I think no-res is your best bet.
Kilpsch has a new version of the Forte's coming out later this year.
I saw that. The Forte IV is out now. I’m trying to sort out whether to go for the Cornwall IV’s, or get a pair of Forte iii’s and add Danny’s upgrades, saving some money for upstream gear. The room is 5,000 cf.
@@rndm4642 Get the Cornwall IV. It would be perfect for your room as long as you have two solid corners to place your speakers.
@@vncstudio I got la scala II’s a while back 😉
@@rndm4642 Pretty awesome!
What I was asking myself, why don't Klipsch hire you to make their models better ;-)
Unless a speaker company is designing a speaker with no limits, to be their 'statement' speaker so to speak, they are always designing to meet a price point. There are always compromises.
What Danny does, after the fact, is upgrade speakers, as if the original designers had a substantially higher price point to design the speaker to. But also, they may have different design philosophies. Danny's design philosophy would probably not fit with Klipsch.
@@pandstar Not always. As Danny has shown on other videos, sometimes Klipsch just doesn't do a proper job with the crossover and to fix it doesn't cost anymore. Remember, these models cost already less than the previous line so they are aheadvof the curve.
Because Klipsch knows what the problem is and buyers dont care. The copper cones, which cause the problem look pretty. The only distinctive part of Klipsch is the horn anyways. The rest is generic, but it's not enough to distinguish a brand. In defense of Klipsch they dont promote binding post upgrades and wood blocks to elevate your speaker cables.
they might run into argument. some of his upgrade parts are expensive. i don't know customers willing to pay more.
Quick question....Do you know how much its going to cost?
danny i see what you have done for other viewers and i want that for me
Without really break the bank but what speakers are better than these without have to upgrade
Quit reason why I'm asking a few questions because I'd like to buy a pair of these speakers I finally have the money I can spend on some nice equipment like a new Marantz receiver and whatnot only thing I've been using right now is a 12 in 3 Way Pioneer speakers I picked up when I was a kid 1998 so I would assume these would hundred percent sound better than what I have and I wonder if the newer Klipsch speakers have any updates on them
Cornwalls 4 please.
Hi. How can I order crossover upgrade for klipsch forte 3? Thanks
from our website: www.gr-research.com/store/p59/Klipsch_Forte_3_Upgrade.html
What is your take on the KLF 30's?
No one has sent one in yet.
Have you done the kilpsch epic cf3 ?
Considering the price of these speakers, and the fact that the woofer is a pressed steel casket, is just utterly insane.
A speaker of this price should have much much higher quality on both the elements and crossover.. no excuses at all .
NOT worth the price they're asking.
Very true!😬
@@bigjay1970 Quite obvious that Klipsch is more interested in maximizing profit over sound quality. Never would buy a Klipsch.
@@roguemodel
I agree, $3 000 a piece for that junk? It does show that maybe high end components aren't that important if all these reviewers go ga,ga over these? But $6,000 ,is a total rip off. I'm not kidding, go look up a youtube video of a svs ultra take apart video and look at this crap!🙄🤔🤪🤯🤯! Even worse, go look up a New Klipsch horn take apart video! $16 000 for crap parts! $16,000!!!!🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🥵🥵🥶 If you breath on the finish it scratchs more or less!🤭🤭🤭🤫🤫🙄🙄😜
I'm not thrilled with the build quality either... is the a product on the market that is superior in build and SQ in this price range?
@@bigjay1970 You are exactly right! Most people don't know, but Eminence builds most of Klipsch's drivers now. For a fraction of the price, you could build the cabinets with a better crossover network as well as better drivers that would simply blow anything that Klipsch makes away. I built my own home subwoofers, 2 units, each with two 12 inch drivers in a push pull configuration powered by a single Parasound A21 amplifier that No company out there can touch. And I've owned Rel, SVS, Velodyne, M&K, as well as many others. These companies cut corners to make a pricepoint to turn huge profits and all you pay for is the damn name. Eventually more audiphiles will learn this and realize that you can build incredible speakers for way less cash.
How about rephrasing to another question asked at high frequecy? :-D
How to improve the KEF LS50?
Forte I too!
Did you get any speakers that were so bad that they were beyond saving?
Yes, often.
Doesn’t Harbeth omit bracing from their cabinets?
Yes some of their models are buzz boxes.
Mr GR Research what is the audio world gonna do with out guys like you
.....find another snake oil salesmen to take his place.
@@ASSOpid you not saying he is a snake oil salesman right?
@@ASSOpid What? You must have me confused with someone else. I'm the complete opposite of that.
@@ASSOpid please be more transparent my friend.
@@ASSOpid lol, says the guy who has never built anything.
I was also in the market to buy some Klipsch Forte IVs......these videos have completely ruined by view of Klipsch speakers. Why the HELL would I spend $5k on speakers that have so many glaring flaws? Sometimes I wish I hadn't gone down this rabbit hole, there's no such thing as a "good deal", just money hungry companies ripping people off for rediculous amoutns of money for cheap shit parts.
It takes Danny and his extensive knowledge and experience to fix the issues these so called established and experienced manufactures cant do... and then they charge thousands for something that was cheap to put together and not very well engineered to begin with.
To be fair, the Forte IV's don't have all the glaring flaws of the 3 they replaced. Though if you still thing they're not worth it, in the Jay's Iyagi review of the Tekton Perfect Set 210 for 2k, he said they sounded a lot like the Forte IV's.
Please oil the damn chair.
Or replace the crossover
I’m not even going to bother upgrading my RP-600M! I was looking at the Heresy 4. If someone can recommend a brand or speaker that may need some upgrading or sounds god out of the box? Thank you
Wilson Audio Speciaties.
Polk
When you claim binding posts affect sound and crossovers affect off axis frequency response it makes me wonder if you sell Covid 19 test kits as well. Do you cryogenically freeze your inductors? What utter crap. FYI- the jagged frequency response of these speakers is caused by the metal woofer, and if you just replace or dampen it the problem goes away. Big reason older Klipsch use conventional non metal woofers and hence have much flatter curves. High end audio dealers have known this for decades. In any respect, I was planning on ordering a speaker kit from you but you lost credibility and will be looking elsewhere.
You're an outright idiot. You have no idea how hilarious your rant is to me. Please buy a pair of Klipsch speakers and stay away from this channel. The audiophile community needs fewer morons like you.
@Steely Dan 5000 He's an idiot and so are you. Get an education if you can't understand the sentence.
@Steely Dan 5000 Strategic punctuation? You missed a question mark after morons, moron.
100% correct. This guy is no better than a shady car salesman. I've asked this Danny guy many times to prove his opinion that cables with PVC jackets sound worse than other cables with an A/B test. Or show us some measurements to back up his claims. But of course he always deflects his answers and never really has a solid answer. He's just another snake oil salesmen.
I suggest you buy Bose speakers. I have no idea why an idiot such as yourself even watches these videos. No one is going to bother with your nonsensical questions when your biases are so deeply ingrained. For one, of course crossovers affect of axis response. Do you have some sort of brain injury? When the Tekton Double Impacts were criticized for a narrow horizontal dispersion, what do you think Eric did to widen it? He adjusted the crossover. Christ, you morons are all over the internet. Dan has been building award winning designs for years and you think somehow you have more knowledge or credibility than he? Lol.
Sit still Tyson.
Too many people are so entitled and expect everything for free. They want you to look up all the specs for the speakers they own, then research all the options, and give them a menu of solutions.