How Mormonism indoctrinates teenagers
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- čas přidán 14. 03. 2022
- Sam and Tanner discuss the LDS church's early-morning youth indoctrination program known as “seminary” (lolol).
Thanks Jake Frazier for the video graphics!
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#exmormon #mormonism #exmo - Zábava
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Oh this is a good one. I was living in Texas where we had early morning seminary. My mom made me quit band, where I had gotten really good at playing the hard instrument, French horn all through middle school. I was excited to start in marching band once I got to high school but seminary was at the same time as marching band practice so my parents made me quit so I could learn more doctrine. Fun times.
We all have our own Free agency, to choose for ourselves! Free agency is important in the Church, and lessons are frequently taught about free agency!
But the fact that you chose to give up on the church, is one thing,but the fact that you want to convince other's to do the same ,is cohersion! SOUNDS LIKE ACTUAL BRAIN WASHING TO ME! What does that say about you? Maybe it make's you feel better, about yourself putting doubts in young people's MIND'S! Usually people leave the church for one reason and one reason only! It's because they have made the choice not to keep the comments of GOD! No matter what religion you are the commandments are always used,and spoken about!
Paddington on the wall ❤️🐻
@@analiseboutelle2260 aww damn marching band was the only thing I liked about high school lol
One day in seminary a student asked that if a prophet somehow became wicked and led the church astray if members would be held accountable for the sins they committed following him. My seminary teacher responded that no they wouldn’t because we are commanded to follow the prophet. He basically just right out said that obedience is more important than the morality of our actions
🙃🙃🙃
Yup. I remember being taught that. It was definitely one of my shelf items. I remember thinking how stupid that was. I guess when I was a TBM I figured it applied to the things that weren’t obviously wrong. Like, if a prophet said we should all drink poison koolaid to go to heaven together, that’s obviously not something god would instruct him to tell us. But, smaller things that maybe god wasn’t okay with that the prophet told us to do, we wouldn’t be blamed for obeying him. It all seems so obvious now that it is just a means of control over the members. It’s a way to silence the members from ever questioning their authority.
I was told that god wouldn’t allow a prophet to lead his flock astray because he would end his life before that would happen.
@@mwillis7791 I was taught that too, but how do members reconcile with all the horrible things previous prophets have done? Either they believe that god instructed his prophet to institute the priesthood ban (which is abhorrent), or they believe the prophet was acting outside of god’s will and should have been killed instead of lead the church astray but wasn’t! I don’t get it! Either way, it doesn’t make sense!
@@apostatelizzy6836 pretty much añl people have done terrible things by today standards so...
I got multiple panic attacks my first year of seminary because the teacher gave a whole lesson about how being gay is like wanting to steal something: "with a little faith and mind power you can recover". The only reason I didn't break down in class is because I had a friend there who was making sarcastic comments so they didn't break down in front of everyone. That same teacher also taught us that the Native American people deserved colonization because they "weren't obeying God". Needless to say, that was one of the worst and most traumatizing classes I've ever had.
Ugh :(
Wtf? 😯 That's so bad.
That's like saying Jews deserved, Muslims deserved, Black People deserved colonization or mass genocide because they didn't worship God?! Which is a fascist thing to say
Do they believe that hispanics are Lamanites?
the hexk?
I was super depressed in high school and tired all the time, so naturally early morning seminary kicked my arse, and it was also around this time when I really started to hate the church and I recognised seminary for what it was and was very open about that and we ended up actually having a meeting with the bishop and all the parents of the youth, because all of the youth just resented it, and I was the only youth there and having all of those adults essentially gaslight me and tell me I didn’t know what I was talking about became one of a number of reasons I left
When I stayed up all through the night to finish my homework (because I had volleyball after school and didn’t get home until late) my mom demanded I go to seminary and not get 2 hrs of sleep I desperately needed. I begged her because I was exhausted and had another long day the next day. Seminary began at 6am. Nope. That’s when all the doubts I had about this religion creating toxic behaviors solidified. No chances of me going back.
currently in seminary unfortunately (although i’m finally escaping it next year!) and genuinely it is so awful. Right now it isn’t so bad because I’ve got an exmo friend in class with me, but I remember last year i felt so alone and would watch your videos during my seminary release period and just lay in a grass field next to the building. Seminary is bad, but seminary without zelph on the shelf is worse
The 🌎 world is filled with sorrow, and confusion, temporary marriage, drug addiction, alcoholism, prostitution, murder and endless crime! 🌷🌸🌷Why God our creator of the Universe and the World 🌎 has more knowledge of the world he created then mankind will ever have! The gospel has eternal families, and we love one another, 🌎the world outside of the gospel has no Hope, because only people who have the gospel have hope, hope come's from the light 🕯️ of Christ! Our beloved savior Jesus Christ, brings the world Hope, and 🙏🏻🙏🏼🙏🏾prayer brings the miracles! And miracles only come from God!
@@stardustgirl2904 me when no bitches
@@stardustgirl2904 is this a copypasta
I got an academic letter in seminary my first year (95% attendance, read the entire book, completed all of scripture mastery, wrote a little paper) and by the last year, I was writing down the worst things the teacher was saying in the back of my quad and was told to not worry about the priesthood/exaltation ban anymore. I read the CES letter for the first time during seminary.
Long story short, seminary did so much more to break my shelf than anything else.
I was a band kid in HS, and I attended early morning seminary all 4 years. It always stressed me out during marching band season because I woke up at 5, had seminary at 6, but band practice was at the odd time of 6:50. I’d always be looking at the clock, not focusing too much on the lessons because the stress kept mounting by the minute. I’d have to talk to my band directors and tell them that I had Bible study right before practice so I’d have a legit reason for any time I was late.
Then came my senior year. I’d been named one of the drum majors (one of the conductors with the white gloves on the podium) at the end of the previous year, and that made things even more hectic. I’m a leader of this band of over 200 people - what kind of example would I be setting if their leader always showed up late, regardless of excuses? I was late a couple of times as a drum major, and it made me feel horrible because I’d be letting the band down and disappointing my directors.
HS was rough, and I think seminary and religious obligations got in the way of me having better success in the classroom, at rehearsals and practices, and just navigating the social pressures at that age. I also have to add that I made a lot of unnecessary sacrifices in the name of being a devout member of the cult. For example, keeping with band, when we’d go out of state to compete in various competitions, Sunday was the day on our itinerary for leisure and recreation, so going to places like Disneyland and Six Flags was on the docket. Me? No. I wouldn’t be having fun at The Greatest Place on Earth, making memories there with my friends and band mates. I had to arrange to go to church at these locations with random strangers weeks or months in advance, and I had to ask these people to give me a ride back to the parks to meet back up with the band. I’d have to sit in the McDonald’s across the street from Disneyland or by the buses if we went somewhere else.
My formative years would have been SO MUCH MORE memorable and fun had I not been indoctrinated from birth. These are just a couple of examples of why much of my childhood and adolescence sucked.
My teacher sophomore/junior year was horrible in a lot of ways, but most notably he ranted about how horrible communism and homosexuality were. Anyways I'm a gay leftist now, so suck it, Nicholas.
He's right about the communism though. It is bad
I was coerced into seminary in high school after already rejecting the faith. It was a great place for me to turn questioners into exmos.
How did you do it? How did you get them to be exmo?
@@floorfloorfloor722 mostly by talking openly about why I don't believe. It only worked for kids who were on the fence, not the ones who were sure about the faith.
malicious compliance 😌
I love how LDS lingo elevates everything in the church above all other religions. A 12-year-old is a priest, and 18--year-old is an elder, a lay preacher with zero training and education is a bishop! and what is basically catechism is labeled seminary. At once self aggrandizing and insulting and diminishing / condescending toward other Christian traditions. The use of words with unique definitions meaningless outside the group. But it is not a cult.
You don't seem to have the correct information, about the the church!
Many Bishop's receive training from the Stake Presidency, along with the High Council!
Missionaries are called Elders because, it's a position in the Melchizedek Priesthood. And Missionaries also receive training, to gain knowledge and God's wisdom, before serving a mission! I'm not sure why you seem to have hatered in your heart for the LDS church, but regardless of your contempt for it. The church and it's programs do miraculous things, for so many people around the world 🌎🙏🏻🙏🏾🙏🏼! The members work so hard to bring humanitarian aide, to those that desperately need it! Clean water 💧 to village's that otherwise wouldn't have clean water! No to mention, that the tithing money our members pay,that helps other churches that don't have the money for drug addiction counseling, and we donate tons of food, to food banks and soup 🍲🍲🍲 kitchens, to feed the poor, we offer free counciling to people, a long with job training, so people can become self reliant so they can care for themselves and their families! Think whatever you want, but ask yourself this, what are you personally doing to help other's? Stop complaining about people that work to help other people!
@@stardustgirl2904 I am so thankful the LDS church is using a fraction of its billions $$ to help others. That is not miraculous; indeed that is why such work is called Humanitarian Aide, because it is from humans, for humans. It could also be considered good PR for the church and a recruiting tool--money well spent....Billions never touched and gathering interest does no one any good.
But What does humanitarian works have to do with the reality, history and harmful practices of the church?
People and organizations can do both good and bad things, you do realize this, and that doing a good deed does not negate the harm....
I do personally help others. One thing I do is spend hundreds of hours giving freely of my time. I run a support group for hundreds of women from around the world who have left cults / coercive organizations and abusive relationships.
Tanner and Sam are helping many by speaking truth--theirs and sharing facts and history and offering support to those in need of it. Regardless of your contempt for the important work they and others do, their work helps many.
Think whatever you want, but ask yourself this, what are you personally doing to help others?
Stop complaining about people that work to help other people!
Yes, totally agree
Sorry, it is a cult.
@@georgewoodland1766 definitely!
A weird seminary thing I remember is that it was all attendance based as far as the end diploma or whatever they'd give you. I didn't "graduate" at the end of four years because I was late too many times (trouble getting up early and walking to the chapel), but other guys in the class would get forcibly driven by TBM parents, and proceed to sleep through the classes, and they'd pass 😂
I'd be into the discussions when I was there most days, but it was more of that exact obedience is more important than engaging in the teachings stuff🤷♂
That happened to my sister too who only missed a couple of times. I also thought it was weird that they gave us grades, maybe it made sense in Utah but in California where it wasn’t part of school I didn’t get why we were graded on attendance and the test we had to take like once or twice a year
@@alicekingore2326 Totally! I was taking it up in BC - they did offer me some make-up assignments to do near the end, which I started, but once I realized that each one of those was more work than an actual seminary class, and I had to do dozens of them to make up for several years of late days, I gave up. I was too busy - working to save up money for a mission 😬 #downbad🤣
Yep. I didn’t graduate because I had to miss for a few weeks because it was the only time they had drivers education. I didn’t do the bogus makeup homework because I was exhausted doing early morning seminary again, honors classes, and working after school. I did all the reading, scripture mastery, and ask questions while lots others who was there everyday did nothing but show up.
I honestly don't know how the hell I graduated seminary because I hardly ever went. But it was a requirement from my parents so I know I did somehow.
When I was a Mormon my Seminary was homeschooled my mother the horrible person she is decided 6:00am was a fantastic time to do Seminary...
Yes, same! I’m from a small town in Louisiana, so we didn’t have a seminary teacher for a while. My mom also thought it would be a "great start of my day" to do seminary at 6am every morning. At least I got to do it in my pajamas, so it wasn’t as bad as students who had to get completely ready for school and then travel to seminary. 🤷♂️
Our seminary started at 6 AM everyday, 5 days a week. I have insomnia, which made seminary even harder. Sometimes I would go an entire WEEK without sleeping a wink. No exaggeration. My favorite memory of seminary is when I once spent the entire hour in the church bathroom trying to achieve the perfect smokey eye without looking like a skeleton.
I grew up in Southern California. My junior year in high school, history class, we got an assignment to make up a pretend trip across the united states visiting historical sites. Then we had to write about each historical site we “visited.” I being the wholly indoctrinated teen, all-in in every way, chose church historical sites, from where Joseph smith was born to the pioneers crossing the plains and coming into Utah. I got a C (horrible grade) and a comment form the teacher that my church’s history isn’t American history. I was very offended. Lol.
Haha good teacher
did you try telling your teacher that the USA was only created as a cradle of the restoration??? 😂😂😂
@@ZelphOntheShelf 😂🤣 that would’ve been perfect! If only I’d thought of that. 🤣
Lmaoooo your teacher was ballsy. Most teachers would be afraid of getting in trouble for "religious discrimination."
@@aubreetanner9543 I never thought of it that way. You’re right!! His personality was actually generally ballsy so that tracks.
I rember my first year of seminary I was extremely depressed. When I heard about Joseph's story on the Telestial kingdom I became even worse. It has been several years and I am still recovering from the suicidal ideations I formed at that time.
I did two years of early morning Seminary when I lived on the East Coast, and then two years of traditional seminary after I moved to Utah between 10th and 11th Grade. Both are horrible, but in different ways.
The main problem with Early Morning Seminary is the sleep deprivation, especially since it's often held at the teacher's house, which can be like a half hour drive from your school, because the Wards and Stakes out East are SO much geographically bigger than in Utah or Idaho.
Traditional Seminary though, I would argue is even more harmful because for all intents and purposes, it's treated like just any other high school class, which blurs the speration and Church and State and teaches kids that incorporating religion with public schools is an ok practice.
I agree with the traditional seminary point. It was just like any other class to me, and just thinking about all that wasted time and stress on a class that had zero academic bearing just makes me so mad
I think you covered this video, but we watched the gazelle drinking from a pond with alligators or whatever in it. My teacher paused the video asking us what we thought, I asked "don't they need the water to survive?" and I could see on his face he was hoping for this question he like sat on his desk crossing his legs and leaned in to say, "but do they?" I was like, "um, yes they do?"
"Or maybe they just think they need it."
"I am pretty sure all animals need water."
When he realized my mind wasn't blown, he pulled back and shifted the conversation.
I think this was the same teacher that asked if I was Asian at all because I had just woken up and my eyes were squinting against the church building lights.
One of my friends fell asleep at the wheel and crashed into a tree driving to early morning seminary (she was fine). I'm glad my kids will never know the boredom of seminary. Most of my friends were too tired to care about anything that early in the morning.
In my 9th grade seminary class one day, my teacher decided it would be a good idea to have a class debate on a number of current issues. He split the class in half and whichever side “won” the previous debate got to choose the next topic and their stance on it. Once someone (from the opposite side as me) landed on gay marriage-obviously choosing the “against” stance, because Mormons-my entire side of the room literally stood up and walked to the other side. I was the only person on the “for” side that actually remained seated. I wanted to try to make a case for it, but my teacher chose to move on to the next topic instead. That was the first big item on my shelf.
By senior year, I was fully out mentally and I started getting coffee on the way to school just to make people uncomfortable.
I listened to two mormom stories interviews of seminary teachers who were sooo good and really cared, but those, of course, weren't welcome anymore at some point because they were too liked by the kids and too progressive.
This video is fun, I like how you too are integrating your experiences with Seminary while reading the replies, it's very comfy :)
YES! Marc Oslund taught at my high school and his class was clearly so much better for students than any other seminary teacher's.
I had Men's Choir as a 0-period during my Junior and Senior year of High School. That meant that early morning seminary wasn't early enough for us to also make it to choir, so 5 of us (in Men's and Women's Choir) had a -1-period seminary that started at 5:30 in the morning.
I didn't grow up in Utah so I had early morning seminary on top of zero period PE, so school started at 8:05, PE was at 7:15, and seminary was at 6:15. In addition to that, I had to walk to seminary and school. The school was only a mile from church, but my house was three miles. I can't believe I woke up at 4 AM for that shit!
hi! big fan! love you 2! - I was 2nd counselor in YW when I was on my way out of the church and asked that question about what 'families are together forever' means in its converse during a steak leadership-youth lesson and was told that if you're not good enough to be sealed to your family that you don't remember your family and are cut off from them when you die. (unless i guess they come visit from the celestial kingdom?)
You don’t remember them now? So you don’t feel sad about missing them. That makes little sense; don’t they want to make it seem most upsetting for those who aren’t “good enough”? 🤪😂
My younger siblings had our mom as a seminary teacher and they still tell the story of the time she got all teary eyed explaining at length how beautiful the sexual relationship is between married couples when they save themselves for marriage 😵
Raised Mormon in South Africa. Literally heard every single thing you guys mentioned whilst growing up.
Literally every single thing.
I’m blown away!
I could tell SO MANY stories abt my time in seminary bc by the time I was in it, I was mostly atheist, but still clinging to Mormonism in that I didn’t know how to be anything except Mormon bc my whole family + town were Mormon, it was rough for 14 y/o me, but even rougher for all of my seminary teachers bc, as my TBM mother said, “you’re asking questions they’ve never even thought of, so they don’t know how to answer but they have to answer bc they’re the teacher + it’s in front of all their students” which… yeah, that’s fair.
But when you mentioned Hitler going to the Celestial Kingdom, it reminded me of the time we were learning abt the three levels of heaven + the scriptures said smthg abt how murderers go to the lowest level of heaven or smthg like that, + I wanted to know if that included God. Which I think broke most of classes’ brains. But I backed my question up w/ “god killed more ppl than Hitler did, bc he caused Noah’s flood, right?“ + it was totally silent for an awkward minute. + then my teacher was like “do you know why ppl become atheists?” + I was like “uh are you trying to answer the question? Cause that has nothing to do w/ it -“ + he interrupted me + was like “bc they want to sin. That’s why. That’s the only reason.” + I started crying bc it felt like a personal attack (bc I think it was) + I legitimately just wanted to know why God got a free pass + not Hitler (not that I WANTED Hitler to go to the celestial kingdom, I was just confused by the double standard) + left the room. So that was the start of my v heated + awful relationship w/ Brother Stucki, but pls know that I regret nothing ✌️😌
Good on your young brain for tracking that logic though! Old Testament god was INTENSE and low key evil yet that’s glossed over a lot. I was Roman Catholic not Mormon but even I was a sus about Old Testament god. And I was basically told, yeah he was intense back then but New Testament god is what we focus on because Jesus. That alone felt very double standard to me but I never really connected dots like you did with that teacher!
I had a different teacher each year. I remember the gender rolls specific lesson. We had a good teacher. She found the two sections of what each gender responsibility was. She read the part about what women are for/should do/should be and asked "Ladies, how do you feel?" We looked awkward and felt uncomfortable. She asked "Men, how do you feel?" And they were like, Yeah, that's fine. Then we read the men's section and the standard that they are supposed to hold to and consequences for failing. She asked how we felt again. The girls were like "Oh it's fine now." And it was the boys turn to look awkward.
But it's all ridiculous. And just setting us up for failure and to be judged by our families.
And yeah, the seminary teacher position is insane. Never really stopped to think about it.
Iv'e been waiting for a video on seminary for so long. Seminary is my hell. I am forced to lose up to two hours of sleep every morning just to be indoctrinated. The days I would get those hours of sleep back I could actually function. It is literally impossible for me to function at school balancing sports and education along with pointless sleep deprivation and indoctrination. My mormon dad was literally a sleep doctor, and his advice was to just "go to bed earlier". That just shows how even mormon medical physicians will throw away all of their education for the sake of their religion. (He gave me an entire talk about how evolution and all of science is fake even though his job is science)
I can’t even recite scripture mastery songs because I spent all my time half asleep, half dying in seminary. Nothing was being stored in my brain because of how gone I was.
I went to a charter school in Caldwell, Idaho. 9th and 10th grade (the only years I went), we went through I think six teachers or sets of teachers. The one that lasted the longest was this lovely, retired, older lady who was the only one who would accept the calling. She was very sweet but not at all qualified to be teaching seminary.
Two things I got out of seminary:
1. First set of teachers, the husband was really into church history. He did not hold back either, told us a lot of the fishier parts of church history. It was a MAJOR factor in me leaving the church soon after.
2. There was this amazing younger woman who was also the mother of a girl in my ward. She was so fun and confident and loving. She loved to cook so she brought in homemade donuts and stuff. She was one of those members that would take all the loving aspects of mormonism and focus only on that. Most of the students were TBM, but that didn't mean everyone was super energetic and happy to be there, but when she was our teacher, we really all wanted to be there. I had sleep issues and breathing issues that caused sleep issues, so I was late a lot. The previous teacher, gave us a lot of shit for that and told us in front of the whole class that he'd rather us not come than come late. He gave me a lot of anxiety, and after him, she was like a breathe of fresh air. A couple years later, she died. It was so sad, I am literally crying typing this out. I knew almost nothing about her before that, and I feel so lucky to have gotten to know her before she died.
I went to early morning seminary all through high school. I was so exhausted I would collapse on my bed when I got home from school without even taking my coat off and fall asleep. I regret going to seminary. What a waste. I threw my seminary diploma away when I was ridding my home of all Mormon things.
I loved my seminary teachers (in Wisconsin 30+ years ago) We had home study lessons, and met for 2 hours before church each Sunday, my teachers always brought baked goods (except fast Sunday). I typically slept on the seats of the back row. We had kids from 5 high schools in our ward. They were some of my best friends, and we only got to see each other twice a week. As a Mom raising kids in Idaho, I have given my kids the option of taking it or not. My oldest 2 took it for 2 years. The seminary still calls me encouraging me to "support my children in the gospel". I'd rather support their choices in life.
I grew up as a mormon in Utah, so I didn't have the early morning seminary, instead mine was right after lunch. My freshman year I went for the first half but was already feeling lied to so the last half of the year had a extra long lunch break. Sophomore year I requested not to have seminary and have a study period instead, but apparently I couldn't do that....
I live in Oregon and there was a pretty big mormon population at my high school. A ton of them were in theater/choir, and I was in choir as well, so I became friends with a few of them. I am Christian and was never interested in joining the Mormon church, but I did love learning about what other people believe. My school had a seminary building a block away from the school, and kids could choose to replace their study hall period with seminary. I went to it with my good friend a few times - to her credit, she never tried to convert me and I was the one who asked to go with her just to learn and also because I hated study hall lol. I remember the last time I went, the guy who was speaking said something along the lines of “If you ever start to question leaders in the church, that is from satan.” That disturbed me enough to not want to go back 😬
My freshman year seminary teacher told us that if you kiss someone for longer than seven seconds, you need to go confess to your bishop.
Unsurprisingly, when I got asked if I wanted to make out for the first time (by a very mormon boy), I had a panic attack. Seminary teachers running rampant do real harm.
The whole oil/dinosaur argument was also taught to me in seminary. And somehow managed to be something I was most upset about at the time 😅
Still traumatized from seminary. I was a teachers pet. I valued the relationship with the teacher more than students usually so I trusted my teachers ALOT.
I had this male, return missionary, devoted Mormon husband and father, who taught in 2 of my trimesters.
One day the topic of marriage comes up and he asks “all girls, this is a question for you. How important is it to you that you marry your husband in the temple ,that he’s gone on a mission and is keeping his covenants?” Every other girl raises their hand and answers things like “yeah that’s the most important thing! Wont marry a guy if he isn’t.” And I decided to add my opinion since we were asked for them.
Mind you I have severe social anxiety and so the fact I raised my hand to speak at all was huge for me! I raise my hand and explain “it’s not the most important thing to me. My dad was a convert after me and a few of my siblings were born so if my mom had these rules then I wouldn’t be here.”
After I said this the class fell SILENT. Then this grown ass man comes up to me a small 14 year old girl, towers over me with his arms crossed and tells me why IM WRONG. He tells me that I’ll only force my husband to join the church after and that my marriage will FAIL and that I’ll end up going to hell in the end.
I wanted to disappear. This was a man that I told about my mothers miscarriages that happened during his classes, I told him about my grandmother dying the day before. I was suicidal during the time i was in his class because of these things. I openly trusted this man.
I don’t understand how ANYONE can justify this. He asked for my opinion and then yelled and humiliated me in front of a whole class because mine didn’t conform to the “perfect little Mormon girl” standard.
Really a heavy weight on my shelf before it broke. Cannot and will not believe in a god that would take away family members and then while I’m suicidal decide to put this man in my path.
He’s lucky that it didn’t push me off the edge.
Ughhhhh 💜💜💜
I had early morning seminary at 6:30am even though my high school didn’t start until 9:00am 🙃 we couldn’t move it bc a couple people went to other schools or had siblings in gr 9 (still middle school here) who started earlier. So I had to get up soooo early and then sit around day and twiddle my thumbs for and hour and a half afterwards 😑 the number of times I got in trouble for falling asleep and being late. i also definitely didn’t lie every single year about doing my readings LOL
I worked at KFC after school and went to early morning seminary for four years. I didn’t get great high school grades and slept in class a lot 😕
Omg I worked at KFC too!!!! In England haha
Sam :)
Oh this is bringing back so many memories! My sister and I ended up in the same seminary class once and on the first day, the teacher told this super depressing and graphic story of a teen girl who was bullied into sùic1de and then made the comment "Heavenly Mother must be a fox because her daughters are gorgeous". We were both skeeved out enough we begged our mom to help us change classes. But I later found out that particular teacher took roll at the end of class so I requested him the next semester and would roll in 5 minutes before class ended. I had perfect attendance for once.
I got kicked out of early morning seminary in high school for terrible attendance (50%). They said I'd have to take release time (which could be any class period at my school), but my schedule was full and I wanted to take college level classes to get ahead for college. So I never graduated from seminary.
Maybe that “no rainbows” prophecy is the reason BYU banned everything rainbow
I like the implication that "the gays" are keeping Jesus away. It makes me feel powerful! 🤣
I live in Utah, so I was one of the luckier ones that had seminary during the normal day. Still terrible, but I at least didn’t need to wake up early. Not that I often went to class lmao. Normally I’d spend the class period in my car.
Loved this video from you guys! Highly appreciate it. Missed seeing your content! ❤️
Tanner making me feel way better about my haircut- growing my hair out while I still have hair (on T for almost a year now and I figure I’ll give it my best shot at goth vampire locks before the hair loss kicks in😂) and it’s at that length, I know I’d pass easier with short hair. Thank u Tanner I feel prettier 🥰
@allthoughtsarelies bestillandknow v5 Nobody asked. Gender affirming care is actually decreases risk of suicide, but I don’t think you actually care. Don’t go giving unsolicited “recommendations” about people’s lives to strangers- it’s rude and you are clearly misinformed.
@allthoughtsarelies bestillandknow v5 the only reason there's a higher risk of suicide among trans individuals is because bigots like you bully them relentlessly
hey babe! i love you and youre 100% valid and loved being trans. im an enby and understand gender dysphoria. LOVE YA!
@allthoughtsarelies bestillandknow v5 who knew telling people their whole lives their self actualization and independent body autonomy that doesn’t threaten anything or anyone is so much of a problem you’ll be tortured and killed to prevent it would cause anyone to feel unsafe
Wild. Usually when people’s natural identities are suppressed they are super happy and well adjusted. I love the cold glassy eyes of the big father sliding over my terrified body as I beg him to forgive the sin of my birth. It just makes me feel super comfortable idk
Also thanks for the body positivity dove soap. You’ve clearly also lived in my body all my life and so you would have the authority to interpret my human experiences. I was so vain thinking I could process my own existence- why, it started deviating from the pasture! Disgusting. Thank god a real psychological expert is in the chat tonight
I chuckle when Tanner says it was at 6:30 AM! My seminary started at 6:00AM. It was awful. I would fall asleep on the couch waiting for my ride to show up.
Came to your video from flattering mention on Jordon and McKay channel and instantly subscribed. Great content
I’m late, but I skipped early morning seminary one day to get to school early so I could talk to my math teacher about the homework that I was having trouble with. On the way to school someone sideswiped me in my car, and basically totaled it. I wish I could tell you how many times I heard that I should have been at seminary because I would have been protected from the accident by the spirit, or not gotten in one.
!!!!!!!
My mom taught seminary. Our family lived in a rural area about 40 minutes from the church building (where seminary was held, this being in the deep south). Also my family had ONE car at the time and my dad worked full time. When my mom told the stake president that teaching seminary would be a serious financial burden, he totally guilted her into doing it anyway.
So we all woke up at 4 AM (I was about 12 at the time) every single day for two years and my mom drove us all to seminary. And then drove all the way back into town to get my dad after he finished work. It was insane and I just CANNOT understand why my parents had such a hard time becoming financially stable! *facepalm*
I hated seminary so much. The first year was fine I guess because my teacher was fun to tease but even then I would stress doodle whenever we talked about gospel things. I got physically sick when we learned about polygamy. Despite having been raised in the church, I did not know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist until I was 15 in that class. I also struggled immensely with being bi and being told that homosexuality is a sin and I struggled being non-binary in a church that refuses to recognize my identity as valid. The beginning of the second year of seminary, I had a teacher who was a woman. I felt so strongly that that was exactly where I was supposed to be and that the Lord put me there for a reason. She quit 2 weeks into the school year. That crushed my whole soul. I started skipping that class when we got a new teacher to go to the seminary class that my friend was in. It was okay at first because at least I had a friend, but as time went on it felt like we were watching that teacher spiral downward. He would talk about his depression and very personal things EVERY class period and he would cry EVERY class period. I was so uncomfortable that I finally stopped going altogether. My parents knew that I would skip seminary if they made me do another year so I got out of that thank god. Thank you for talking about this. It is very validating to hear experiences similar in craziness to mine. Lots of love to you both ❤️
I did like half a year of early morning seminary on the New Testament when I was investigating (my senior year in hs) and having grown up in a non-lds church I was SHOCKED when I learned the very basic mormon theology that God has a body. Also pissed when my seminary teacher said that Mary Magdalene wasn’t a prostitute because that idea had helped me work through some sexual shame earlier in high school 🤡 also awkward when my (super kind) seminary teacher pointed at me and my investigator friend and said everyone should look up to our faith because we were coming to seminary even though we weren’t born in the covenant but at the same time I knew about Joseph’s extra wives and was SUPER CONFUSED by what I was hearing in seminary ahahahha
Seminary in my ward was really early. Start time was 6:00 am since the teacher had to commute to work. I hear in Utah seminary is a high school elective, taught during daytime high school.
When you live right next to the church so when you skip seminary they come to your house to get you.
That’s fuckin creepy I’m sorry :/
Gross, sorry
I have a VERY mormon-centric life. I go to an LDS school in the middle of Utah, and every single class is infused with the doctrine of the church. I have a seminary teacher who, just a few weeks ago, gave a lesson on the Spirit World. He began the lesson with a quote from an old student of his about the lesson that essentially said, "I am so grateful for this lesson; now I am excited to die!" to which he followed up with, "And so am I!" So, he plunged into the lesson and stated things like we should be glad for infant mortality (but OBVIOUSLY not abortion !!!) and that we should be happy when our RIGHTEOUS (but GOD FORBID if they committed sin, they are hopeless) friends and family died. On and on he went, until by the end of the lesson all the kids around me were saying what he said in the beginning: "I'm excited to die". I was truly nauseated at the thought of this grown man promoting suicide to a group of teens who are ALREADY probably struggling with insanely depressing thoughts about suppressing their true selves. I'm disgusted that he promoted such a thing, truly awful experience.
Also Tanner, I ABSOLUTELY love your entire look in this video, truly gorgeous!!!
Gahhhhhhhhh
I did four years of early morning seminary. It’s as miserable as people make it sound. Love the nose ring Tanner!
thank you!
When you get flashbacks at all the times your friend brought brownies baked for seminary and had some leftover 😭 Probably the best part of all that!
Years back the wards that shared the same building had high enrollment in one big seminary class. So, the idea was pondered to split the two wards into two seminaries which meant one of the classes would have to go to seminary class even earlier in the morning, I registered my disapproval with the proper person. He used this self-righteous response: "Well, you need to pray about this as I have." I told him that the kids were already sleep deprived, that many couldn't get their homework done already, and that sports and other "extra" activities were demanding a lot of time and energy. The man listened with little patience. Finally, I said this: "I teach at the high school full time. Believe me, an even earlier seminary time would be a terrible mistake." He showed a little surprise. Soon after the idea of earlier seminary was never discussed again.
my dad was an early morning unpaid seminary teacher for a few years, and one of his favorite scriptures to tout was something about losing your life to save it, or find your own life to lose it. I ALWAYS HATED it!!! even as a tbm. like?? I'm not about to LOSE myself! no thanks! He even printed out a crappy sign that said "find = lose, lose = find" and taped it to a door right next to my bedroom. I ended up ripping it down one day. Pissed me off!
My dad was my seminary teacher in 9th grade, and it was... excruciating. He tried so hard to be funny and relatable, and it was so cringey! I would say it was the start of our rocky relationship...
Totally agree with what Tanner was saying about using an alarm. I still panic if I hear any noise that sounds like the alarm I used during my seminary years 😬
I also went to church every single day of the week, because my dad was in the bishopric so I had to help with things on Saturdays as well.
I had online seminary with my brother. We didn't get snow days off.
Also, we could've done it pretty much any time in the day, but we decided to be "more righteous" by doing it early/had to fit extracurriculars and clubs.
The worst part about seminary is you won't be accepted into a church university (like BYU) if you don't graduate from seminary!
I got it easy, I got to choose which hour of the day I took my release time and only had to go to seminary three times a week! For fifty minutes each, too. I was TBM at the time but still got horrible anxiety from that class (and was always sad I didn’t have more time to take other classes or do homework instead). I remember liking my teacher enough, but we’d constantly argue about word bits of obscure doctrine when he’d try and clarify scriptures with authority even though it was often just his own interpretation. And of course he was always annoyed that my boyfriend at the time and I were steady dating before his mission (we were reminded more than once it was “inappropriate” to hold hands in or coming into the seminary building) 😅😂
We also had a racist substitute one time who told us her daughter tried to date a Mexican one time (someone Hispanic but definitely American) and said that the reason she had a bad dating experience with him was because God warns us in the Bible not to date outside of our race. It had nothing to do with that days lesson, she just wanted to remind us to only date white Mormon people 🙃
About the difference between celestial and lower tiers: I'm pretty sure there's a section in the doctrine and covenants about how people in the lower tiers are angels, solitary and alone forever. I wish I had the reference, but I don't remember it. But based on that i think it's solitary confinement essentially
I only remember 2 things from Seminary - Being pressured to eat a whole bag of marshmallows to demonstrate how moderation is important. I've never eaten a marshmallow since. I was already only going to placate my parents at that point. After that I would just sit on one of the chairs in the lobby and do the homework I should have done the night before for that hour. The second was not minding that I had seminary at 5 am so I could be at school for 0 period PE/Marching Band at 6...I actually liked how quiet it was when working on my homework in the lobby.
Even after I knew I didn't believe anymore, I kept going to seminary because I felt guilty if I didn't.
And I too was obsessed with "being the best at scripture mastery" oh my goodness. What a fucking time
BRO so last year i had a very interesting grandma seminary teacher with very old traditional beliefs. One day we were talking about modesty and appearance. I at the time was really questioning the churches strict views on appearance so was kind of hoping for this lesson to answer my questions but OH BOY was i wrong. She started talking about the guidelines for dress and appearance in the for strength of youth pamphlet. for those who dont know it has strict rules on piercings as it is only one ear piercing for girls and none for boys. after reading this she said its so much better because she doesnt want "ANOTHER BIG HOLE IN HER EAR". the thing is as she said it she stared at my friend, who mind you, HAS MANY PIERCINGS. this teacher went on and on about how your defiling your body yada yada. me and my friend had a whole text convo in class saying how shes kinda crazy. She also SHAMED her own family (her daughter) because she had premarital sex and started preaching how abortion is always evil. when i challenged her she said in any case it is evil and of the devil. like mrs. please dont bring politics into seminary im tired please and thank you.
P.S. she would also beat around the bush when talking about topics like sex and even if the students werent uncomphy at all she would say "i know we dont like to talk about it" and then she wouldnt. like you have to be strait up with teenagers especially early in the morning! she was scared of what she was teaching. looking through texts i realize the only reason me and my friend got through that class without cobusting was that text thread.
thankfully now the FSY has changed to be without strict appearance rules and i am forever grateful my teacher wont be judging my friends for their piercing anymore.
btw my seminary teacher now is WAYYY better as she doesn't exploit her family and doesn't force her opinionated beliefs on sleep deprived teens and doesn't shy away from "uncomphy" topics. Shes actually a good teacher and not just someone in the ward like before.
I had the opportunity to do in school seminary (most high schools in utah valley have a seminary building as close to campus as possible. It was technically a release period, but you could do it at any time of day), and I did for 3 out of 4 years, but then in my senior year I had to switch to early morning. After a couple of weeks, I dropped a class, and yet I STILL OPTED TO STAY IN EARLY MORNING because I felt a lot closer to the church in early morning (probably because i was tired AF)
Turns out it was more of a last hurrah than true strength, because I ended up starting down the road of my faith crisis within 6 months of graduating.
On a somewhat related note, I loved most of my seminary teachers, and one of them was the first person I came out as demisexual to. Turns out I'm actually a lesbian, but I didnt know that at the time
The worse thing than this though is that I woke up at 3:40 AM every thursday for 4 years to go to the temple
I always look forward to your guys videos ❤️
In 9th grade, my seminary teacher told my class that divorce automatically disqualifies you for heaven. This was a couple years after my parents divorced. Which, my teacher did not know I was a child of divorce. So, he basically told me that my parents were going to hell for getting divorced. Even though my father was extremely abusive, which is why my mom divorced him.
Going to seminary during school hours was my only option so I had to make up the credits doing summer school if I wanted to graduate on time.
I'm currently watching this video during a youth activity but I also watch your videos during seminary so that's kinda funny
In Utah, seminary teachers are paid - because they meet in a building just off campus of the high school.
It's so funny that the folk tales in seminary were told to me too. I was told this story that once upon a time in Brazil the government (For unknown reasons) decided to raid a mormon temple, but before they could do so, two giants who looked like native americans (Apparently some Nephites) stood next to the temple and protected it, and the army retrieved. Hahahaha how gullable was I that I believed that sh___t.
What is this CES Letter that is always being referenced??
I feel like I've seen yall before, did yall live in NC and be in the holly springs ward? Cause I swear I've seen yall
I heard that they hung the garmies up and wrote "mormon monkey suits" on them, and then the missionaries did a special "shake the dust off your feet" ceremony with the stake president in the stake centre, and then the the laundromat burned down. I honestly just became interested in learning vengeful magic after that, which may add to why I stuck around till I was in my twenties... that and my hot daddy young mens leader who I was crushing on...
Also, my seminary teacher and her husband were killed on the way to church one week. It was very sad as she was a lovely lady. Thankfully nobody made up any ridiculous mythology about it.
I grew up in Austin texas and there were not a ton of mormon kids. The only one I knew well was in my section in band and in the fall we had 7 am morning rehearsal for marching band and he had to go to seminary before that. It was bad enough getting up early enough for rehearsal, but to get up even earlier everyday? There's no way he was getting enough sleep
I had seminary at 5:45am everyday and literally don’t remember any of the messages because it was so early. I do remember many of us got speeding tickets trying to make it to seminary on time because the teacher would berate us if we were late.
mine always talked about the immortal 3 nephites - telling the sort of miracle stories but having someone see three guys somewhere in the story. I wondered about them all the time when I was mormon lol
4 years of early morning seminar in the 90s. I was so sleep-deprived during my junior and senior year of high school that I started waking up at, like, 11 PM or midnight, thinking it was morning, and getting into the shower (maybe lowkey sleepwalking?). The commotion would wake up my mom, who would knock on the bathroom door and be like, "honey, you're doing it again...."
Awwww that sucks!
I actually really liked Seminary when i was in high school. My 9th grade year was really boring since it was The Book of Mormon, but luckily that one was overwith first. I live in Utah so I didn't do early morning (getting up at 6:30 to get ready for school was already super early) and I still fell asleep in seminary sometimes. But I had some great teachers and we had a big devotional once a month with all the seminary students and always had donuts afterwards.
I hated seminary. I was already depressed and struggling with my identity, and then I was being sleep deprived with a religious fucking class. Lasted only two years of that shit.
Funny story, I grew up in utah and got kicked out of early morning seminary for missing too many classes. I had early morning rehearsal twice a week (once for band and once for choir) so I was only attending 60% of the classes. So I went back to attending 15% of the classes during the day and spending a lot of time ditching class at the 7 eleven.
When I lived back east, our ward was so spread out we had 5 high schools in it, so seminary was at 5 am in order to make that work and get everyone to school on time. High School kids should not be waking up early enough to make a 5 am class every day. It was brutal.
When we moved out west and had release time, I dealt primarily with being treated poorly by teachers and some of my classmates because I had a different perspective and look having come from outside the bubble. It sucked.
Are students required to buy the materials?
Luckily, my situation was not the typical. We lived in the boondocks and my parents handled seminary by purchasing (?) the four-year bundle and leaving it up to me to do or not do it. (They also gave The Miracle of Forgiveness etc, which I read, and thankfully they never quizzed me.)
Great job you guys!
my fave thing to do in seminary is go on exmo twitter or watch your videos
It was during my own teenage years where I started becoming devout as well but as a Catholic it was not as intense as it sounds like it is for Mormon students, as you said most weeks it was one hour or an hour and a half at most for church.
I didn’t graduate seminary which horrified and humiliated my parents. I had 4 years of early morning. I received a 3 year certificate or some bullshit. My seminary teacher told me I could graduate if I wrote a paper for everyday I missed. I’d have to write a full on book so that didn’t happen. What my parents didn’t know was that I spent those mornings (after dropping my brother off) crying in my car because of the hurtful and awful things they said about me.
You witch and warlock! I'm 35, out for about 9 years... and just yesterday (singing in the shower) I realized I knew several Seminary cringey songs by heart... Melodically beautiful, of course, but with some awfully misogynistic gender rols, logical falacies and other LDS goodies in the lyrics. Like our favorite "Godly Sorrow", "Marriage for Eternity", etc. Mindblown at the deep-running river of brainwashing! And today I see this here. I love y'all. Lol
I still have to attend seminary now. Last year the teacher was preaching the usual crap about how the earth is only 6000 years old, and then when a student said that the earth can scientifically be dated older than that the teacher responded "the science is wrong on that one"
Everyone hated seminary (except for when there was donuts). I hardly even remember anything from it because I was so tired. I had stomach issues every day because my body could not handle breakfast at 5am. Then I was starving till lunch. I think about how I could have focused on more important things like school and extracurriculars if I didn’t lose that hour of sleep and time. I feel so bad for those unpaid teachers. I could not give a single fuck that early. However it was nice to see my friends every morning.
Can't believe no one asked Tanner where he got that sweater.
Watched the video over again to keep looking at the sweater. Actually, that's not true I watched it over again by accident, but the stories were funny and interesting. I had no idea just how high demand Mormonism is of even children. I grew up the non Christian kind of Quaker, which is a very hippy religion where the extra commitments were things like volunteering at homeless shelters, going to protests, and bringing meals to the various elderly members. I can't imagine adults expecting teenagers to get up at 5 or 6am to learn about the religion.
savers!
i live in utah and have my whole life, i have a lot of memories of being in seminary. i stopped believing pretty early on so i hung in the back with the other "disillusioned" kids. one of my best friends in that class would doodle in the class BOMs and it made me soo nervous bc i was scared shed get hit or something. in highschool i started doing early morning, and skipping it to go nap in the band room or library before school.
When I was in seminary actually you could choose morning or during school later in the day time but now I’m kind of trying to figure out my own beliefs I don’t even know what to believe anymore
I joined the gospel at 14 so did seminary for a few years and honestly the early mornings sucked and I was tired most of my school day but, I used to have to go to my crushes mums house as she taught seminary, fun fact he's ex mormon now like me 😊 we still talk sometimes...hi guys x
I had early morning seminary in Wyoming and I don’t really remember anything about it other then when the teacher brought in treats. They were just happy when kids took seminary. On a scale of one to 10 I would give it a five. I didn’t necessarily hate it but I also didn’t love it
God, I have so many stories about seminary… I did early morning for 4 years, but for the last 3 months or so I was starting to “rebel” and wasn’t interested in going anymore. So I didn’t actually graduate. Even if I had “graduated” it would have been a waste, but I didn’t even get the satisfaction of a recognition of the time I wasted! Because of 3 months at the very end, almost 4 years of getting up before dawn meant nothing to them. 20 years later and I’m still salty 😂
I remember in seminary they were like statistically at least 5 of you will leave the church. And I was like omg is that gonna be me…
Omg I forgot about that! I remember our seminary teacher had us write a letter to our future selves that he'd send us in 5 years. He said one student's letter said "when this letter finds me I'll either be coming home from my mission and happy, or in a bar and have a good cry." *pause for dramatic effect* [somber affect] "he had a good cry"
Remember kids, don't give in to the demon liquor! 😵💫
A girl I played rugby with had to get permission to get out of seminary to have early morning rugby once a week.