Do you need high tech steel for blacksmithing tools?
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- The variety of steels available today can be mind boggling. but do you really need high tech steel for blacksmithing tools? lets take a look at making some punches and chisels from very simple steel, 1045
My name is John Switzer, I operate Black Bear Forge, a small one person blacksmith shop located in southern Colorado. My current focus is shifting away from commissions and customer orders and towards education through these videos on CZcams. Thank you for watching
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Below you will find useful links that will help you in your journey as a blacksmith.
My blacksmiths apron
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RZmask 99.5% dust mask
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Blacksmithing tools and supplies
Self contained air hammers - www.saymakhamme...
General blacksmithing supplies - www.oleoacresf...
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New anvils - www.oldworldan...
New anvils - www.nimbaanvils...
New anvils -
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Tong blanks and tools - kensironstore....
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Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.
Hi iam Edwin de vries from The netherlands I just startet forging i realy have a good help on you video’s thanks for that 👍👍👍🤠🤠👏👏
Glad to help
Black Bear Forge thanks for The help:)
If you live in a country where you don't have access to different steels -- truck axles make good hammers, car axles make good small hammers, chisels and punches, and spring steel makes for good punches. Leaf spring for knives. Quench in oil first and if that doesn't work, use water. Temper to personal preference.
Another good point for the flats, not only for indexing, is when you lay them on the anvil/ place them down, they are less likely to roll away. Its terrible having to chase runaway tools
I am a small French blacksmith I watch all your videos I do not understand English perfectly but I just found that we can subtitle in French. So I’m going to take back all the videos to better understand. In any case a big thank you for your availability, the quality and diversity of your demonstrations and explanations.
Salut Bernard, si tu veux des éclaircissements, passe à l'atelier. Je pense que je pourrais t'expliquer. Pascal
I never noticed the sound hot steel makes until I watch your videos... your anvil has such a lack of ring it’s kinda neat to hear the difference of what the steel sounds like.
Hahaha I got 2 tonnes of untouched 1060 steel from the local train yard that shut down a year ago, Best 200$ I’ve ever spent. the reason I got it so cheap was because the council didn’t want to pay someone to remove all the material, so I did some 20 trailer trips and coughed up $200. Now I’m good for many years ahead of me lol
Thats a great find. Hopeful in useful sizes
Thank you for looking after us Newbies. I don't have a blacksmith school I can go to, especially now. The internet has become my college.
Your videos Are Truly a joy to watch, you are definitely one of the best blacksmithing channels out there. Thank you John
Wow, thanks!
This video makes my hands itch! I haven’t fired up my little propane forge since the COVID lockdown started. My five-year-old is unbelievably curious and has a habit of getting into your blind spot whenever you turn, just so he can get behind you and pick up whatever you just put down. When he was regularly at school, out w/ my wife on weekends, or visiting friends it was great to go out back and practice working some hot metal. But now we are all here 24/7. After all the times I have glanced up to find him holding something sharp/heavy/hot/toxic/otherwise dangerous, I can’t bring myself to risk it while he is around. I miss it, and I don’t think I have ever found any hobby that captured my mind quite so much. Thanks for your videos as always!
He'll never know what a burn is like untill it happens. Better you're there when it happens than not.
As a young child, maybe 4 or 5, I picked up a black heat piece of metal. I got a nice painful burn out of it that healed within a few days and learned a very valuable life lesson. He will do the same, all boys do.
John, so glad to see you get back to what I see as your greatest strength, teaching the basics of blacksmithing, and making it entertaining!
The problem with basics is it all starts to seem the same
Sometimes going back to basics and teaching them to others gives you a better understanding of your own learning, and might reveal new aspects you never considered before.
A note on hardening - it is also the speed at which the material moves from the critical temperature to below the "hardening" temperature, if you take too long to quench, it wont really harden! most tool steels are about 2 seconds max
Can't believe I've never stamped the steel types into tools! I frequently make 1 or 2 versions of a tool from agricultural steel (something along the lines of 1035 or 1040) and work out all the bugs in the tool and the process before I make the final version out of better tool steel. It would be really nice to not get them mixed up anymore!
When i first started i repurposed as many broke tools i could find because the metal i had wasn't up to the task now i buy steel depending on the need its made a tremendous difference
They would make a good start to a begginer level blacksmith. When I started I could never find steel at a low enough price to be able to make the tools I needed so I had to make some from coil springs. The only time that I did find some steel that was advertised as good for punches, etc., my local blacksmith told me to send it back as it was only marginally harder then mild steel. So many types of steel out there and it makes it very difficult if you don't know what to buy. This video should help a lot of people 👍👍
I have seen many blacksmith use punches and chisels made from rebar, most unpredictable steel.But very easily available. They just learn how to deal with it with course of time. 1045 is very good steel to make tools.Great video👍👍👍👍
I like how your dividers are looking like they're both waving at us with the opposite hands in the background!
love your stuff John! Thank you so much for doing what you do! You're our CZcams Blacksmithing Shop Teacher! ❤️
Another great video. Love watching them. Very inspirational. Just noticed one thing. From around 8:50 onwards, the mark on your leather apron (with that nice anvil logo), just around the belt level, on left. I guess that has got a story, and a good proof why to wear one..
I watch you videos the most, I learn so much from you
Thanks and I have been using the"junkyard steel" Agree I had many times fill learning would be best to use known steel
Thanks and making notes
Your video quality is excellent. It makes your videos very enjoyable to watch, thanks.
Thank you very much!
thank you
hi, thankyou for your videos. i have a full workshop and forge that i got from my late father and i use your videos to learn. thank again. les
Thanks for the heat treat app. Just what I was looking for🙏
Thanks John,
Glad I seen this video. I'd like to learn more about different types of steel for tool making.
@18:10 . Wax Temp sticks take the guesswork out of the heat treatment equation. Was lucky enough to obtain an assortment package of 20 at a flea market for less than twenty bucks. Range from 500°f to 1800°f in 50°f increments mostly. Seems like a few of the lower temp sticks were missing, iirc.
Nice tools. Great tutorial. Thank You for sharing. Have a great day and stay healthy.
Thanks for sharing with us John, lots of great information in your videos.👍👍👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
That pan from the back of the forge to the anvil was a pretty cool shot.
Thanks
Love this style of tool ever since I saw Asperry do the index flats. Good video boss
What was that at 5:19? "Whoops"? Made my day, sir. The number of times I've said that (or worse) to myself. LOL
Thank you for leaving that in.
Solid advice John, I am a scrap steel guy, use lots of coil springs, crow bars, jackhammer bits etc. You know the drum, recently got 2 idler wheels from the track drive off a bulldozer, no idea of the composition but they are bloody hard, will become tools eventually! Known steels I am yet to work with, have some successes with the crap I use and a few failures but I put down to learning and experience, a lesson learned is worth the time! My local engineering shop is a great help, I buy simple steel from them almost weekly and have picked through their scrap bin just as often! Getting some 4140 from them soon as they have a big order lost in the Carona world and are awaiting delivery. Hope to have success with a hammer, time will tell!
Ulfhedinn Tyr
Yeh, the
ones I have are , not sure if all are , older ones may be round shaft.
@Ulfhedinn Tyr some are hexagonal some are round
Thanks John,it's always a pleasure to watch your videos.
I love these kinds of videos that you put out. It gets me excited to start making things. These kinds of videos makes it not so daunting to know exactly what kind of Steel to use when you're just starting out . Thank you.
Great video John, as a tool maker for 40 years ,l heat treated a lot of stuff in a electric oven and with the torch. A lot of it was 4140 and o1 tool steel which are both oil hardened.
Yamez at Island Metal was making some hammers last night. Didn't
quite catch what he was using John. But he said it was a real simple steel and was A water quench steel. His comment was that it was a super easy steel to get the heat treat right on. That it moved like mild steel when it got hot, under the hammer.
Very likely 1045
Great video. Looking forward to the v-bit tong video. I'm going to make me a modified set with some sucker rod I found. I'll be following your method. First I have to make a set of round bit tongs to hold the rod! Keep up the good work.
Be patient working the sucker rod...it can be harder to forge by hand than you might be accustomed to. It makes great tools, BTW! A well known smith in our blacksmith club makes his tongs exclusively from sucker rod.
Excellent job sir, always love these videos on tool making
Well done mate. I agree but not 109%. I use lots of coil spring and torsion bar for tooling.
i love your videos John! very informative, but one thing I love the most, is you're not chasing your anvil all over the place like some other videos, and you do a lot of hand forging.
Hello - found you from
Tik Tok. Really interesting and fun to learn. Thanks
Love the rhythm of the inward breath before a flurry of well controlled hammer blows count 6 or 9 or 12 as the breath is released slowly. Geepers I sound like a Yogi. This is a very soothing aspect of smithing both to watch and engage in. Then there are the more crisp planishing blows at ever so slighlty off that optimal forging temp still in the rhythm of that particular smith. Cheers to you John..
Great topic for a video. I enjoy working with 1045. And any further info you can get on any given topic is relative information. Thanks again john
Very high quality photography and interesting content.
Detailed story, thanks -)
I subscribed to your channel - I have something to strive for and is learning in my work!
Good day sir ,I guess i'm first to see you today . I hope your day goes well .
Morning!
🏆
Hello John
You are a good teacher
Always Think whst is good for beginners and for people who dont have all the tooling of a professionell
Thanks for that
All best wishes stay safe
Yours Frank
Grate video John ,These are the type of videos you are famous fore.
Best Teacher on You Tube so thanks John really Appreciate you. cheers, :)
nice video...you hammer like a machine...relaxing to watch
Great Video! Video and audio quality seemed superior! New equipment or technique?
Not new, but a bit different due to an issue with my usual system halfway through the video
1045 is the only steel I use for tools. I’ve got a center punch, chisel and round punch that I made when I first started smithing 8 years ago. I still use them and they work just as good as the day I made them. 1045 is a perfectly usable steel for almost anything a hobby smith needs.
I have heard conflicting things on tempering. What temperature do you generally temper the 1045?
Black Bear Forge it depends on the tool, and how I plan on using it to be honest. Center punches I will temper for two hours at 375 (or at least that’s the temperature I set my toaster oven to 😂). Hot cut chisels I just harden the cutting edge and leave the struck end soft. Punches I tend to harden and just temper the struck end to a dark straw color. Hammer eye drifts I will harden the struck end only and temper back to dark straw or purple. I know that’s kind of a convoluted answer, but I don’t have one set temperature that seems to works across the board. I’ve actually made some chef knives from 1045, just as a proof of concept, leaving them hardened and not tempered, they actually perform quite well.
I needed this video!!! Thanks!
Yes known steel is good. But I use salvage 7/8 inch sucker rod which is similar to shaft. A couple years ago an petro engineer gave me a spec sheet. Smaller rod 5/8-3/4 are around.25 carbon 7/8 around.45 C. 1.250 are .9-1 C. I have a large stockpile from the same well. 30 ft for $10.00 ain’t bad. So after playing with it I treat it like 1045. Only difference is before I use it for tools etc I anneal it first, heat it and light pounding then normalize it a couple times. Because I only use my horde I feel I have a known. I so enjoy your channel. Thanks.
I agree. The larger sucker rod is good for about 90% of the tooling I make. Another good salvaged material is forklift forks. Great for hammers or mini swage blocks.
I've only ever used scrap steel, like medium carbon, 1018 stuff.
Excellent pointers, John. 🐾🔥⚒👍🏻
Nicely done john.⚒️🔥⚒️
You remind me of a blacksmith Ron Swanson 😁 great video!
making a lot of tools with salvaged 1/2" vehicle coil springs at the moment.... not sure how to harden them though......! They are tough to hammer.
czcams.com/video/rkEoh1J143k/video.html
John, you could forge the tools in any manner you want, and rearrange the order in post (post-production, ie: editing). That happens all the time in the movies. There are even entire websites devoted to finding those little foibles ("The odometer is all over the place in such-and-such movie!"). It's also possible you could have already done that here (it looked like you were going back to the forge for the next piece at one point), but if you did, there is very little evidence of it.
Anyway, another great video, and I look forward to seeing whether or not I guessed correctly on what you are planning to make with these tools.
Its way easier to film in the order you want to present than it is to try and rearrange afterwords.
1045 is used by the better tong Maker. A point I tell my students by the time you heat a piece of junkyard steel and straight it you could have bought a piece of S-7 or H-13 for the same amount of money
John you could just mark them with a paint pen.
John, there's also an app called "Heat Treatment Info" that gives tempering temps for different hardnesses, at least for the materials in their database. It looks like they need users to submit information on different alloys, they check the data, and upload it to the app. I think....
If their info is correct & I interpolated correctly, your 450°F tempering of 1045 gave you a hardness of ~58 HRC on the working ends. Of course, it's quite hard to control temperatures & times without the fancy heat treating equipment that industry uses, but I suspect your new tools are somewhere in that hardness neighborhood!
I can't locate that app. Do you know who makes it
@@BlackBearForge On Google Play, it's called "Heat Treatment Info" by "Holen" and is under "Books & Reference."
Could we get a video on what oils to quench in depending on what steel being using? I feel like that's a lot to ask but it's just an idea :) Great video as usual
I use a commercial quenching oil (brand unknown) for oil quenching steels.
Do another on 4140, and which tools would you preferentially make with it, please.
I have done several videos on tools from 4140
@@BlackBearForge thanks, I will hunt. I have such a short memory I might have even seen them.
You should consider starting an apprenticeship. I know you really have your hands full with both channels, but I do wish there could be a resurgence of just such a tradition in our country. Trouble is the typical economic model no longer supports it. We use to convey so much skill, craftmanship and work ethic from generation to generation. Look forward to the v bit tongs. Thanks!
i enjoy watching your videos.. very clear and understanding.. so I'm a beginner... what is a good coal to use.. I used some and i had a hard time to weld metal together.. thanks..
Buy high quality metallurgical coal. Generally sold as blacksmithing coal by blacksmithing suppliers.
I noticed you have a wheelwright traveller on your wall. Where might I get one? 👍👍👍
That one is an antique. One of hese days I'll see about making one
High tech steels been around for thousands of years. The Japanese were using Molybdenum in their high carbon swords and Europeans were using Nickel alloyed carbon steel.
1045 is roughly equivalent to EN8 in the UK (only posting this because I am refining my purchases)
Hey, John. This was a great video. I really liked how the fuller turned out. Quick question, which video did you post that showed how you remove galvanized coatings from random tid bits?
czcams.com/video/hr8jU_-JWHc/video.html
@@BlackBearForge Thank you! I didn't know what was the acid you used.
Thanks John for the thought of staying with one type of steel when starting out. What is the diameter of the 1045 round bar you are using in this video? Joe from Wisconsin.
John, found the size way down in the comments, 3/4”. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and whits. Joe
Hey my name is Allen Clark , I have watched a lot of your videos and was worrying how the 4 tools held up. Because you said you used 1045 to make them.
They are holding up well enough to be useable tools. But they do require more attention to keeping them cool than something like S7, H13 or Atlantic 33.
I'd be interested in knowing how these tools held up after more than a year and a half. Either as a follow-up video or as a quick comment her if you have the time.
SO far they hold fine. They do require closer attention to keeping them cool and they need to be dressed more often, but hats all to be expected in a simple steel.
@@BlackBearForge I'm also making my tools from 1045 as it is cheap, easy to forge and I do believe that all those amazing renaissance blacksmiths would have died for a steel of this quality. Yes there are "better" steels nowadays, but that does not mean that the simpler steels are bad. The modern "magic" steels are also quite more complex to get the correct heat treatment to benefit from all their wonderful properties.
Thanks to video! 🎅🏻👍🏻🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮
Sir where can I get a list of steel and the use of the steel?
I have a very very sharp old wood working chisle that is a joy because it bites into the wood and cuts better than the other chisels that I can afford , Would love to make a great set.
Thanks for the Teaching you have already given me Sir
What is a good book to get for learning about the different steel types?
I just bought a portable hand crank operated coal forge...videos I've found seem to put it from the 1880s...anyway the guy told me I may need to line it with clay to prevent it from cracking. Would you have any advice if it needs to be? It looks like it never has had anything in it before...
Chris Heinen Outdoors Look for foundry clay or fire clay, these should work.
@@aslob9321 thanks!
I sent you a msg on your FB page! Thanks
i think the nut on your grinding wheel is missing .
I suddenly realize that making hot cut chisels out of a water-quenching steel like 1045 may well have a significant advantage over the ones I just made out of 4140, because you can cool them down during use with water. Any thoughts on cooling 4140 or other oil-quenched steels in water during use? Thanks, as always, for your continuing contribution to the craft.
I actually cool any of my tools in water as long as they aren't red or hotter.
@@BlackBearForge Thank you, that's reassuring! Hate to crack the chisel I worked so hard on.
Great video, John. I read in a number of places that 1045 shouldn't be tempered below 750deg because of likelihood of stress cracking if done at a lower temp. Is this only a problem in larger cross sections?
Interesting, I hadn't seen that
What is the diameter of the stock you bought? and is that the diameter you prefer for your punches and chisels?
This is 3/4. But it depends on the tool your making
@@BlackBearForge thank you
Did you mention woodash for annealing?
Yes you did
Maestro buenas podría hacer su video con subtitulado con español...☺️☺️😁.. Así los q no saben inglés puedan ver al menos leer 😁😁
Pepe HR
Los subtítulos en español son posibles. Presione el engranaje de configuración en la parte inferior derecha de la pantalla de CZcams y seleccione Traducir automáticamente y luego el idioma de su elección. Luego presione el ícono de subtítulos (a la izquierda del engranaje de configuración) y active los subtítulos.
Nota: Espero que el traductor de inglés a español que estoy usando sea legible.
Greetings from Croatia !!!!! What type of steel should I use to make blacksmithing tongs ?????
mild steel is fine for tongs
Edwin did you craft your hammer?, curious thank you.
No, it was made by another smith
What diameter was this bar you used?
3/4"
@@BlackBearForge , thanks, John! As always, great video!
How do you get your anvil so quiet? Do you have a video in that?
czcams.com/video/Z3365vFHXhw/video.html
Is there a app that show color for temperature of steel or paper chart
I haven't seen one.
There are a few out there but all suffer from the same issue. Ink fades and not all screens show color the same way.
www.google.com/search?q=steel+color+chart&oq=steel+color&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l7.4390j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
The color charts are really just a rough estimate due to color distortion. I use a cheap ($15 USD) non contact digital thermometer if I need to get the temperature accurate and it is a good tool to learn the colors with.
How did u burn ur apron ?
Just leaned in too close to something hot
Hey, John! Is anyone else having trouble with your patreon account. I am already signed up with you on Patreon, but it is not letting me view the preview videos now. It says I have to sign up, but I already am....
That seems odd. I'll see if i can figure it out
Everything looks correct. You may need to contact Patreon. I don't have the ability to check whats on their side
@@BlackBearForge and I thank you, kind sir! Maybe its just a glitch. I got the email letting me know the video preview was up on Patreon, but the link said it was locked for members only, lol.
@@BlackBearForge will do, Sir. I will wait until the next one and see if it corrects itself. 👍⚒💪
Man, I guess you use that file for only that purpose! One swipe and the files ruined...
I'm not sure which file you're referring to
@@BlackBearForge The square file you use to test hardness. I use just the corner of a file right up at the last teeth near the tang to pick at the part I'm testing. That way the file isn't damaged for regular use.
I really like your practical approach to tool making.
just to grind some salt in the wound of Inch users, why do you use numbers like 36inches/9inches so much, why not easier numbers like 35 or 10?? Well turns out you are already adapting a little bit, 36 inches is what gets closest to 1METER and 9inches 25Centimeters..... just give in and go metric like the rest of the planet.