IMHO the biggest problems of 1960/70s brutalism anywhere in the world are: 1. quick deterioration of concrete as surface material and 2. too many stairs, bridges and tight dark passages. Even if real crime rate is low it gives the perception of danger.
Bare concrete (or even worse, sheetrock) is a poor choice in wet climates. Brutalism tends to look better in drier places where the surface tends to discolour a lot more slowly. You can see this in places like Japan and the UK where the rain has stained all the concrete buildings and it makes them look awful.
I visited Thamesmead in the 80's and was dismayed to see bridges linking the tower blocks. That doesn't make it safe for anyone living in them knowing that somebody can get into a neighbouring block of flats and then come straight to their block of flats without having to go down to the ground floor, then outside and then in through the door entry system (if it existed then) to your block of flats. Not only do these tower blocks need door entry systems at the entrance but one for each floor. And in Caerphilly on the Lansbury Estate there was a long bridge from the estate over the green space besides because of a stream running through that needed only a low short bridge over it. I also hate seeing those bridges linking shopping malls to department stores.
Brutalism was awful. Weirdly the early 1900s of Art Deco or English renascence was wonderful. Peak design. I'm sure brutalist probably looked interesting in some small scale model, but in the real world, they were depressing and awful. Even this example, designed to have green spaces, just looks like depressing concrete greyness. The concrete only amplifies the horrid look of them as well.
@@Friek555 yes. Muggers agree with you. They playfully bound around the walkways and stairs after the attack and in to the labyrinth - impenetrable to police. It’s such fun!
As far as ex council estates go, I think this one actually works - low rise, greenery & blends into Highgate well. Please keep up these diversified reviews.
Have you ever BEEN or lived on this estate? It’s MISERABLE. Little dwelling hutches and public space where you are observed constantly. The walkways create a sense of foreboding tension and the criminality is on it and around it. The hutches for humans are like the ones on Rowley Way. Great if you want to film a ‘gritty police drama’ and then go back to one’s spacious BBC/Film4 funded Islington Town House - but Archway/Kentish Town toe-rags use the flats and walkways and have a different interpretation of ‘Brutalism’
@@peterwhitehead2453 because some flats have been purchased through right to buy scheme. The majority of flats are still council owned and the owners of the estate are still camden council
The lack of public information on this estate tells me it's a success. In my experience, people rarely praise something publicly but they will certainly criticise without hesitation.
I grew up in a tower block. It was one of three. It was different to the rest because it had 24x7 staff who were responsible for the security. I was told it was because it was designated for elderly, (but I don't recall that being the case). However the major difference was that it was pleasant with a community feel that the others did not have, and that was down to the focal point of having staff that enforced rules. Then the council decided to bribe the residents with a reduction in annual cost by replacing the staff with a 24 hour telephone hotline. My father moved out and he said that was the best decision he ever made, as the tower block degenerated to the same level of the other blocks around it.
I used to be a police officer in Camden, so became fairly au fait with the problems of the various estates, and my memories are that the Whittington never really suffered with a lot of the ills of its fellow council estates, although to be fair when compared with Boundary Rd or the Brunswick Centre it was quite a bit smaller. Maiden Lane was the modern estate that seemed to have more than its fair share of crime, often thought to be associated with its proximity to Kings Cross pre-regeneration and the problems that came with it. I'd never really considered it before, but I think the number of trees in and around the Whittington softened it a great deal, and made it feel part of it's environment rather than dominating it, like many of its comtempories.
Hello flipper, I'm very interested in urban regeneration and decay. What do you think are the causes of urban decay and why did kings cross regeneration work so well? And what are your thoughts on these estates?
How long ago? So was I and the Whittington Estate absorbed similar problems to Salisbury Walk. We executed loads of arrests and warrants there so not sure how this came to be. Camden 1999- 2003 and 2007-2014. It was nice it was surrounded by Highgate woods - but it was still frequented by EK /NI faces
@@LaPtiteAnglaise I was at Kentish from 97-02 and EO 02-03 all on B relief. So our paths must have crossed. NWW now which is whole different can of worms!
I grew up on this estate. Retcar Place. We were one of the first families to move in back in 1980 or so. The estate was still being finished and it took another two years or so. Great little estate next to the new Highgate cemetery, just hop over a wall and you were in a jungle as it was a lot more overgrown back then. I moved out in the mid 90s but my mum and dad lived there till they died.
I grew up in the "white flats" as we called it, or the Whittington estate, to anyone who's not from the area... Up until the age of 10, and let me say they were the best years of my life, kids playing outside, neighbours used to ask for milk, and the mums would all sit on the wall to talk for what felt like hours after we finished school... The water fights and games like bulldog were the best, where most of the kids from the flats would be involved... Moved out to Kent to a 3 bedroom house, was never the same... I mean you still got your dodgy people in the flats, but we all knew who they were, in Kent it just had curtain twitchy vibes... However when my parents moved out, in the early 2000s alot of other people moved out at the same time, to the suburbs and apperently they went downhill after with more gangs as it lost its community feel...
It’s great to hear the experience of people who lived there. I grew up on a street of council houses till the age of 9 and then we moved to a house that my father bought a few miles away ( not near London at all) and the sense of community in the council street was gone in the private street despite the houses being well over 50 years old. 6 years ago I spent a 3 months between jobs delivering parcels in Plymouth, daily I would deliver to private estates, private flats and council estates and council flats. Most estates were pretty grim, but the people in the council estates certainly seemed to have more community, and there was one particular council block of flats where there were always groups of residents chatting and drinking and they all seemed to know each other, on a summer day when I made weekend deliveries a remarkable number of people and families were in the communial area with bbq and music and a huge number of people relaxing and playing.. it was amazing, I never ever saw anything like that in the expensive private housing areas.
I lived there for a couple of years round 2004. Really amazing year place. There were gangs , though they were no problem with residents. Our step was there meeting place, and they were very polite. Theye weren't Angels, and always had "cheap" phones for sale. Their antisocial antics also had the estate blacklisted by pretty much every food delivery service in the area. But as I say as a resident I never felt any danger of being the supplier of their next "cheap" phone.
I really like that stepped style, 70s architecture is definitely an improvement on the 60s, though it seems it's still a fairly unloved era on the whole.
@@ZGryphon Paint peels and degrades too. Sure you can keep adding more but eventually you have to sand it back and start again which is not cheap if it's several hundred homes.
Some architecture is ugly regardless of how clean from dirt and such it might be... I would not paint over concrete in most cases since it takes a relatively low maintenance surface and makes it into a more maintenance surface... My driveway is concrete and at least once a year, I use my pressure washer to clean it... Maybe more often than that since if I'm washing my car, I might continue and spray the driveway while I'm at it...
I love these essays on architecture, its impact on social housing and community. You really do present built environment in an interesting, well researched and thoughtful way. Brilliant.
as an architectural engineer I used to live in Kilburn part of Camden and passed many times these blocks looked always interesting, not my taste but I still find them interesting, it’s nice that you made a video about these. That style from the 70s I find very dystopian. It makes it look like zombies live there. I like London’s classical Victorian buildings and those homes with these windows kinda showing off kinda Bulging out don’t know what it’s called. They give off these home community vibes. Miss my time in uk. I hope those tyrannical Gouvernements in Europe will leave soon, than I may come back.
Have you looked into Dawson’s Heights in Dulwich? Another estate designed by a graduate, who made balconies essential despite council opposition by incorporating them into fire escapes - so residents could have a little luxury. Also the hill it sits on is the direct result of the nearby railway line….
So many of the large building projects failed, not sure to the plan , but the unwillingness to fund them properly, build them within code, and all of the rest of the things any community needs to survive.
This estate, and Alexandra Road represented the pinnacle of architectural thought as applied to housing 60 years ago. I was a student at the time. Neave Brown was one of my critics, and I regarded these estates as thoughtful and carefully planned, under the then prevailing economic circumstances. Now the value of the old streets, incremental housing and maintaining commercial activity in the form of small shops is finally recognized. Ironically, that same value was also recognized 60 years ago by the writer Jane Jacobs, who was able to prevent the destruction of the Greenwich Village district in New York by expressways. Lessons learned the hard way.
As a Camden Council flat resident I can say that this block is one of the nicer ones in the area. There are a few gang issues but that's just mandatory for a Council estate here. It definitely looks and feels alot better than its neighbour blocks
Councils have had extra responsibilities piled on them by central government, but no matching increase in central funding, and are prevented from raising funds via increasing council tax to meet the shortfall. Therefore services are cut back to the bare minimum, or sometimes below.
People still moan about brutalist aesthetics, but through my 2022 eyes, bringing the materials, structure and integrity of a building to the foreground has to be applauded. The unsavory links between developers and councils, and the age of austerity, mean that there is a real lack of trust in the quality of modern construction, especially low cost housing. With brutalism, what matters is on display. And lest we forget the tragedy of Grenfell, where the decision to clad over an 'unsightly' building cost 72 lives.
I was thinking just that myself - this is a building which appears structurally sound! I live in Australia, and the current wisdom here is don't buy anything built in the last 25 years unless you like the idea of waking up one morning to a crack that you and your neighbor could shake hands through... 15 floors up... in a load-bearing wall. I like decorative architecture, but I don't trust the pathetic panels I see on current housing stock do anything but hide flaws. One tip - don't "privatise" your building inspectors and leave them to be picked and paid by developers.
@@andyyu5957 The cladding was as insulating as it was fireproof. It was a cheap product to add an aesthetic veneer, sold as being environmentally beneficial. Any process to certify the supposed beneficial properties was funded by for profit labs. Now the taxpayer has to fork out compensation, local governments around the world are going after the certifies.
The issue mostly for me is bare concrete. It just gets so grimey looking over the years. It deteriorates, leaks, it's not a good surface material. And monotone grey everywhere, except for the mould, is so dull and dreary.
Amazing how many architects seem to forget that the coping on top of a wall is supposed to overhang the brickwork/stonework below. A water repellent engineering brick or equivalent material should be used to prevent the wall becoming constantly wet/saturated. This makes the wall almost self cleaning/maintaining and avoids the black staining.
I lived in council housing as a child. Council housing generally doesn’t work because the architects don’t consider the quality of life of the tenants and the need for green spaces, but rather the need to house many people quickly. I haven’t been to Camden council flats, but they seem much nicer than those in other places.
Many council estates were, on paper, a vast improvement from the slums that a lot of tenants previously occupied. They had a bathroom, central heating, a big kitchen and good size bedrooms. Unfortunately, the buildings turned out to have been cheaply/badly built and problems soon became evident. Over the years the problems mounted up and the lack of maintenance by the council proved fatal.
My friend, this isn't the cause of mere architects who failed their opportunity to work for a high-end firm. This failure is entirely of your county /council to secure contractors on a common sense meritocratic basis. I'll name you the name of 5 housing developers that are given government approval to screw you over for profit.
For a late-1970s design that embraces Brutalist design philosophies, this is a rather pleasant council estate. Remarkable what happens when you take social interaction into consideration with respect to community design. Thanks for another fun, informative video, Jago!!
I would personally say that just because a third of all tenants were more than happy to buy their residence outright, that in and of itself is a glowing confirmation that yes, it worked. People felt safe and happy enough there that they wanted to keep living there, and the prices for such homes skyrocketed. Absolutely a success.
@@tremensdelirious ohh yesit is a massive issue but the point is correct. They wanted to buy because they like them and like living there, that makes the estate a success
People bought the accommodation because they could save money in the short term and make a lot a lot of money in the long term. With a narrow scope then I would say it was success.
Right to buy, for many council tenants, was the only way they could get on the property ownership ladder. It’s nit as if they could pick and choose where they’d like to live and buy into.
The actual design doesn't sound too bad. It just seems that the use of a dodgy contractor buggered things up from the start--a problem we over here in Quebec have in spades with a construction industry controlled both by the mafia and SNC Lavallin (but I repeat myself). Being a Montrealer, I am rather more inured to brutalism than most given that our metro system and many of the big buildings constructed during the 60's and 70's "Quiet Revolution" era used the style.
You can see how they shifted from Vertical to Horizontal layouts in the 1970s. I visited the Neave Brown Alexandra Road estate in 2019 (on a very SUNNY day!) and thought the place absolutely beautiful. People plant gardens in those stepped back balconies, there were lots of trees grown in between the blocks and the whole place felt very organic. I would love to live there. Same with these, they look very nice and pleasant (apart from the rain... )
E-scooter vandaliser here, in your most recent video your personal scooter looked mighty fine for a beatdown. If it ever breaks down, do get in touch x
FANTASTIC episode. I love the architecture videos. I would have said it was a very interesting ‘bridge’ between true brutalist and the more ‘toned down’ styles that followed. The potential seems to me to have been tremendous if the buildings were used and maintained in the way the architects had imagined they would. Even taking into account that never happened, this ‘hybrid’ looks to be a pleasant place to live, in an inherently overcrowded city. It would have been interesting to see some interior footage, and also hear from some occupants. But I find these very interesting. The Barbican got a round kicking for being a brutalist failure at one point. But the truth is, it just isn’t. It has formed the kind of city locked oasis it was always meant to be. Too many brutalist schemes were akin to buying a spoon and then proclaiming it was bad at cutting steak. They were designed to fit in a community that the councils never ‘followed through’ on. It wasn’t the fault of the buildings. Much as I don’t like architects, they were not the culprits. The strongest message from watching these, is looking at the sheer ambition of councils to build better. They failed in the greatest part. But they tried. What do we have now from councils? It’s rhetorical, because clearly the answer is nothing at all.
Former paramedic in Camden and Islington, and from time to time would go into these flats with work. The interiors are generally well built and in pretty good nick (though I don’t know which are council and which are private). They are spacious inside, and do get a lot of natural light - far more than my flat of the same era. I would live here in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose, but I am biased by a love for brutalism.
You could do something on the Becontree Estate; said to be the largest estate in the world when it was built. For a while it even had its own railway for the transportation of building materials.
I think that a lick of white paint and a visit during summer days could do a lot to improve the look of the place. It has character and was designed with greenery in mind so it has potential to be real pretty
These types of videos are always fascinating, keep them coming! I know in the new year video you talked about perhaps making more videos outside of London and I would love to hear your take on Glasgow’s Red Road
Have you thought about doing Lillington Gardens in Pimlico? It's one of the best estates of the second half of the twentieth century, with streets in the sky and all sorts. There's a rather tragic tale to it - the architect never actually saw the buildings. He was given the site map, and designed the estate, but committed suicide before ever seeing the site. It also has a much older church in the middle of it - Victorian, I think - called Saint James the Less, around which the estate was built.
I always find these "estate" videos very interesting. Architecture is something I know very little about and my only experience of these kind of estates comes from the Scottish "new towns". Whil there are similarilties here to East Kilbride and the other four, this really reminds me of the hotel complex I stayed in, in Estonia. The Estonian block certainly looked better maintained but, as you mentioned, the season maybe didn't help with Whittington. If the greenery had been in bloom, it might well have looked better. My considered opinion? I've seen worse.😁
“Brutalism with a human face” is an amusing phrase to me as an architecture student because brutalism itself, especially that of Peter and Alison Smithson (Robin Hood Gardens), was basically meant to be “modernism with a human face.” My personal opinion about the “failures” of public housing is that it’s more often policy and funding (like noted here) that makes it “fail” and not design, but I’m obviously biased. Especially where I am in North America, older public housing projects face major problems of insularity and isolation (the well-intentioned car separation can do that). Those obviously are design failures, but they’re also often the result of urban planning policies. Anyways, great video, I really appreciate high quality opinions on architecture from beyond the discipline. If you’re interested in progressive, humanisticly inclined social-housing outside London with a similar story, Alexandra Park (1965, Toronto) designed by Jerome Markson is worth looking up. Unfortunately it’s now mostly slated for demolition but it was a very successful design with some major flaws.
I’m a bit late, but I’ve had some Americans say that The Projects over there have a lot of the same issues as housing mega blocks did here; which makes me think it’s definitely policy rather than design based.
I live round the corner and have always enjoyed walking by this peaceful, considered architecture. The terracing and layout also gives privacy to the balconies. Thanks for adding insight to its history.
Reducing the size of the windows due to budget restrictions was probably a blessing in disguise. Large glazing looks cool on the drawing board, but will boil you in reality.
The trouble with separating vehicles from housing is that you can't access your car easily. Sucks to be disabled when you can't walk far (if at all) and need to hike to your car. And that's if you can remember where you parked it. You can't get deliveries easily, either. Want your week's groceries delivered? The driver needs to move the whole lot on a trolley. Then possibly up stairs, too. Getting your own shopping in? Same problems! Buy your own trolley, or just steal a new one every week and chuck it in the nearest water course when you're done. Trying to find a specific home when not a resident? Good luck! GPS won't help you. There's no signal there either and you're also leaving your vehicle unattended.
Good comments. The architects never actually have to live in these homes with their families and go about normal daily lives. Look good on paper but then..
I’ve love these London estate episodes. I grew up on the Stockwell park estate in south London but often visited friends on the surrounding estates and high rise blocks. I always as a child thought they were in stark contrast to the surrounding Victorian architecture of Brixton and Stockwell. And we all know about the unrest Brixton experienced in the 80s. Keep these videos coming Jago. They really are every bit as relevant and great as the Tube vids 👍
@@blackhawk69100 I hear you. The crime rate was so crazy around that time that a friend asked me to flatsit his place while he was away. However, less than a week into my stay the flat was burgled while I was at work. They simply kicked the front door open and emptied it. Even took his 3-piece sofa! Cops said it was probably one of the neighbours but didn't bother making any enquiries - and positively laughed out loud when I asked whether they were going to dust the place for prints. The council never came to fix the door - while I was there at least. Had to wedge a bed that had been graciously left behind, between the door and the facing wall. Used to get woken up by the postman stuffing letters through the letterbox tickling my feet. I always slept uneasy at the thought that someone might pour some petrol in and immolate me. I'm an expat now but I thought the estate had been torn down.
@@DealerD8vE no it’s very much still there. That’s an all to familiar story unfortunately. Pretty much the same thing happened to our family. They smashed the upstairs window in for entry and actually took everything through the front door. I mean everything too. Even toys, bedding, kitchen utensils. Police came and dusted in our case but nothing came of it. But the council did replace the front door with a dead bolt door and the window. But from that point we deliberately didn’t have anything of worth until we moved out of London in 1988. I bet many residents would have the same story to tell.
@@blackhawk69100 Terrible times. You mentioned that it's now popular with trendies. Does that mean it's been gentrified like much of Brixton?! Or is it attracting the arty grunge brigade that used to dwell in places like Hoxton before that went upmarket?
Even from the left-hand-side of the Atlantic, the problem, inasmuch as there is one, is brutally apparent to me: "Conservative" politicians hating anything that gives a leg-up to the hindmost of society chronically underfunding, short-shrifting, and shafting any kind of social housing (here we call them "Projects," over there y'all have "Council Estates," etc.), _inevitably_ results in them being poverty traps; with poverty traps comes poverty, with poverty inevitably comes crime, either as a means of advancement outside the restrictive boundaries allowed, or simply as a relief valve for stress, or as a means of protection. _Fund_ a place like this well, ensure it _remains_ a place for people who have nothing to find shelter and sanctuary, give them some sense of ownership stake in the place _without letting them buy it outright and then turn around and gentrify it so that others like them cannot afford it,_ and above all, _fund the place._ Provision the money required for the staffing requirements, and maintenance and upkeep, and don't deal with a stingy hand. The rising fortunes of the inhabitants will more than pay for things when you can tax them.
If not much has been written about living there that is probably indicative that it wasn't a bad experience. Books and articles saying "This is place is okayish/average" don't tend to sell well compared to horror stories of youth plagued corridors and leaking roofs.
I clicked the LIKE button even before watching this video! CZcams should provide a LOVE button because I just love these videos about council estates. I watch them multiple times. Good Job.
Council housing/social housing, it's an impossible circle to square. Space available, density requirements, budget availability,cost per unit, projected timescale, all these have hindered many an idealogical scheme. For future videos,which may still have some transport interest links,there's Bourneville and Port sunlight etc, more modern ideals such as Milton Keynes,let's not forget horror of horrors,Cumbernauld. The other often ignored social engineering of the late fifties and earl sixties ,is the new car factories, manufacturers were forced to go to areas of high unemployment, miles away from their traditional heartland. Ford,Vauxhall and Triumph to Liverpool, Rootes and Leyland to Scotland. That'd be some interesting trips for you Jago don't you think.
Reminds me very much of the style of accommodation blocks at the former Merchant Navy College at Greenhithe. It was built into a hillside too and used the same style of block work.
Reminds me of the Jethro Tull song Cross-Eyed Mary, which celebrates said eponymous heroine by saying "She's the Robin Hood of Highgate/Helps the poor man get along", which is so deep I've lost a welly. Unfortunately, the song came from the Aqualung album, which was released in 1971, when the project was still no'but a twinkle in the milkman's eye.
I love how much thought was put into this project. Shows the designer was thinking about it from the point of view of someone who would be living there rather than bringing the cost down as much as possible.
I’ve been meeting to explore this estate for ages. It reminds me of the flat we lived in when my father worked in Oslo in the 70s. Very similar in style to the ziggurat design with underground parking. Happy New Year, by the way - your videos became the round window to my lockdown Playschool. ☺️
I was in Oslo a few years ago, and walked through a series of apartments that looked very similar. And there is a social housing block in Austria that looks very similar, too, if I recall.
The genre was defined, at least as far as London's concerned, by Russell Square's Brunswick Centre, although in that case a cored of shops was flanked by similar housing units.
I must be getting old I guess. The postwar concrete brutalism, which always seemed so dingy and depressing in my youth, has started to acquire a certain nostalgic longing, and even a strange kind of beauty to my eyes. I even did my A levels in a building of that style, halfway up Putney hill on the right, stood the Putney branch of South Thames College, now demolished and redeveloped. I also spent nearly twenty years of my life living on the edge of Plymouth, which is possibly now the most unspoiled surviving example of this type of construction. When I first moved there I thought it was all rather sad and run-down, but over the years I came to see something else, which is certainly deserving of preservation. I think even though the architecture is... I guess the term brutal really is the best descriptor, it is also oddly totemic of a much simpler time, when we had these wildly optimistic ideas about how people would live in the future, and what the shape of our society might be. In those days the thinking was of a big, centralised, slightly authoritarian, yet basically paternalistic society, in which those "nice men from the government" would always look after you (cradle to grave), tell you what to do, and sort out the unruly neighbor whose dog was always crapping on your driveway. Meanwhile the reality in which we eventually woke up, fifty or more years later, turned out to be infinitely more complex, highly individualistic, and tougher to survive in. These days it is rather more everyone for themselves. The government has shrunk, and all but gone out of business, and the parts of it that remain are just as likely to be busy breaking their own laws (by partying during a lockdown), as they are to be sorting out your unruly neighbor. Meanwhile technology has rendered vast swathes of humanity as almost purposeless, not really needed, and thus prone to all kinds of mischief, including the spreading of crazy conspiracy theories. Self reliance, and small decentralised, self sustainable communities, now seem to be the thing. In such an age, the remaining concrete brutalist structures, like this one, for all their flaws, are an oddly comforting reminder of the simple and optimistic big dreams we once had. Looking at your video, it isn't difficult to catch hold of a glimpse of the magnificent vision that the Architect must have had. The only real shame is that the execution of his dreams was clearly compromised by cost cutting and resources issues.
I grew up in probably the first post war flats in central London. Lovely place to grow up in the fifties when the people were nice and I knew every family in the 18 flats in my block. Now these flat projects are largely nightmare places to live in. One thing is certain few of these architects who won many a prize for their projects would ever want to live in one.
I worked on it as a laborer around 1978 .I lived in a bed sit at the time .Would have loved to have gotten one from the Council to live in .Nice big balcony and low rise are the best features to me .Also location a short walk from Archway for bus and Tube .
Don't rely h this half baked personal view . Not much research and you as a student deserve better. Jago is a transport specialist , and quiet uniformed and depending on dodgy sources with respect to architecture and urban planning
@@willhovell9019 I mean it's just a fun video to watch, I'm not using it as a source in my work. And transport and planning do overlap in some ways, for example I just did a mock dissertation on Cardiff Metro system
@Nikky T fair enough . Really enjoy most of Jago's vids , but his pieces on public housing architecture are mostly personal opinions that feed a neo conservative Tory narrative that has done everything it can since the dark era of Thatcher to undermine social and public housing. These personal views are particularly unhelpful in an era of London wide central Government fuelled housing crisis. I'm sure that this is in unintended , a bit like Orwell's works being selectively used as anti left propaganda. There's nothing wrong with utopian housing projects. As long as the architects and planners are prepared to live in them , which is the case in Camden low rise developments Don't forget Hampstead Garden suburb , Howard's Welwyn Garden City and Levita House in Somers Town. All have stood the test of time.
I remember being there 25 years ago. I was on my honeymoon and my wife and I had to find a laundromat. It was a peaceful Sunday AM. As the morning and early PM went on we decided we needed to finish up our business and move on. It wasn't bad but we both thought it would not be a nice area at night.
I love the Tube and train videos, and I extra love these explorations of council estates and other architecture (the Elephant and Castle mall was rather close to my heart in a bizarre way as well...). 'Tis like the gravy upon the meat and potatoes, if you will. Keep up the great work, Jago, and thank you for your efforts!
As someone who has worked and studied in housing all my working life I find these social housing fascinating (and even though I'm a train nerd too) prefer them to your underground ones. More please Jago
It's not the worst looking estate though it needs one hell of a jet wash. I really do like the emphasis on greenery, it really takes the edge off the truly brutal use of concrete.
Yeah I was going to say the same, just power wash the buildings and will look good as new! What is it about this country that we never seem to look after the exterior of our buildings... Wait a second I think I've spotted a pattern here in British thinking...
It’s like you live inside my head knowing exactly what I want to watch - this has always been one of my favourite examples of Brutalist architecture, it’s so interesting and imagination-provoking. I’ve been dying to get down there and photograph it to make some art based around it. Thank you for another amazing video! I live for this stuff.
Very often it seems the builders are not up to constructing the architects ideas, and that architects need additional input from the man on the ground as to what is feasible in a build program.
and the proof that architecture is secondary to planning. The architecture is mostly rather bland, with a few iconic buildings, such as the main church. And that was deliberate, it was meant to be somewhat timeless in stead of dated quickly.
I used to live near here and I always liked walking around this estate. I then moved to Crystal Palace and lived right next to the Central Hill estate which is another fascinating architectural-social experiment that is now due for demolition. I’d love to see a video on that! *hint hint*
How anybody ever thought that the Brutalist style was attractive is completely beyond me. After a few years the concrete gets stained and discolored, cracks develop, and the whole place looks like a leaky, moldy mess. And everything's just GRAY and dreary and depressing. I haven't seen a single Brutalist structure that aged well. I appreciate the social ideologies that went into the concept, but unfortunately high-minded design concepts don't create lasting structures; they create expensive liabilities. Vanity projects for middle-class dreamers in ivory towers.
Haha - you must be talking about the old Edmonton Green Shopping Centre that they built in the late 60s! Gosh that was a monstrosity! They may have covered the extra with flashy new builds, but inside it's still just as ugly!
I dunno, I kinda like it. Needs some paint and the concrete needs patching, but after 40 years what doesn't? Were the concrete panels defective because of the basic design, or did the manufacturer screw up?
More please, I love your architecture videos. You mentioned you were thinking of doing videos that would start to look outside of London. I know its a subject that has been covered a lot over the years, but I'd love to see something on the more controversial or even down right bizarre Beeching decisions.
I have to say I always admired this estate, albeit from afar as I have only been past it, usually on a bus, and not actually in it. I like that it fits in to the surroundings rather than dominating them, sitting rather nicely among the green areas with its balconies and stepped profile. There’s almost a certain modesty about it as though it’s designed to appear to be rather less than it actually is, which I suppose is almost diametrically opposed to the intent and purpose of the stark white elephant contemporaries. I can’t help wonder if the junior status of the architect was to do with that…🤔 I was born 5 mins up the road at the Hospital and I’ve been to the cemetery…maybe I should visit here for a full set? 🤷🏻♂️ Cheers Jago great fun as ever 👍🍀🥂
There’s a really good book, “Cook’s Camden”, which covers many of the housing projects in Camden in the 60s and 70s. The Whittington estate gets a long, interesting and extremely well illustrated chapter. The illustrations include some from the early days, interior pictures, and plans of all the various designs of residences. Recommended, although unfortunately it’s not cheap. But a really good account of one of the places where Brutalism came quite close to working.
I believe the approach of those that built the high rise council homes was 'stack them high and make them cheap'. They didn't care how pleasant, safe or practical these constructions were to live in (imagine what it must be like moving into a flat near the top!). The people were housed and had running water and electricity.
I grew up just off Highgate Hill. The Whittington Estate always struck me as a unusual good quality build. And it never seemed to have the rough and tumble appearance that other council housing had. I like them. And as a teenager I remember saying I'd like to live there.
I’m not ashamed to say that I love this channel. The way you go into detail about things that we say every day in our lives yeah take for granted is very interesting to me. The estate you’re talking about in this episode is very similar to another one in North London called Rollie way(may be spelt wrong). Another crime ridden run a state similar to this one, is Graham Park estate near Colindale Northwest London. It beggars belief what the designers of these estates were thinking. Did they not think for a second about the policing aspects of these concrete monstrosities
This is my favorite topic you cover... The contrast between the traditional buildings and the futuristic ones, free development vs over-planification, utopian dreams turned to dystopia... Still I can't help but enjoy that these things exist, I appreciate their alien looks and their impressive size... and they still serve as a caution against hubristic ambitions
Used to walk around it when I went to school nearby in the 80's . Always liked the estate personally. It had an air about it that somehow it was expensive exclusive. Another great video Jago 🙌🙌
There are many carry overs on my side of the pond. Seattle went for the "Mixed Income" model. Full on public housing was knocked down and new development went in which meant that only about 1/3 of the families that made up the old community returned. So very different. Vast majority of our pubic stock began life as WW2 housing for war production workers. one to three story wood frame buildings. Two to seven dwelling units per building.
VERY interesting! Thank you for making these. One thing though.... (and I know this is 'an ask' which may be ridiculous, or difficult) ... I am SO CURIOUS to see the INSIDES of one of these Brutalist structures. It's one thing to see the outsides... and, as one commenter mentioned (and I had the very same thought): They would look a hell of a lot nicer/friendlier given a going over with a pressure washer! And, as YOU mentioned, it is Winter! ... but as they are living spaces, it's not fair to judge without having seen what they are like from the inside. Besides all that, THANK YOU!
A very interesting and well balanced analysis of this social housing, alias "brutalism with a human face". As mentioned, a huge problem was and is the lack of maintance. When the houses were brand new, it had an astounishing bright and futuresque apprearence (this progressive look combined with the grown vegetation (which was often newely planted just after building the houses would be even more attractive today). Many of those buildings never have been renovated with care (f.e. the concrete facade just has to be preasure cleaned and it looks like new again). The Thatcher years with its running deep cuts of social projects and care had a bad infuence on the local communities, too. The lack of social workers, shared rooms and spaces quickly showed the short sighted thinking - even those economic-fixed people should realize that a pound cut on social care are two+ pounds to be spend on fixing the consequences (police, graffiti removal, etc.). Community housing like Whittington Estate or Alexandra Road were a good middle way between super high rises and room consuming single housing.
Always seems to be the case that when you really dig around as to why infrastructure fails, it's due to neglect and a lack of maintenance. When will people learn?
@@rogink Well that’s the funny thing isn’t it? Most of these mid-century modernist housing projects were designed to be extremely low maintenance, and so often people STILL failed to maintain them.
@@olivercuenca4109 Well, if they were designed that way, clearly the design was flawed! By the 1970s it was well known of exposed concrete's flaws - not just to staining through natural processes, but as a perfect canvas for graffiti. If the designer assumed that you would need to come back every few years to pressure wash grime off, he was an idiot. I live in a house built in 1880 - time is certainly not on its side, but at least superficially it looks OK.
There is a set of apartments, along side the equivalent of Central Park, in the tiny town I come from, that look strikingly like these, except made from wood. I’ve always had a low level fantasy of living in them. This is such a beautiful and understated design.
The problem with the buildings designed in the 1960s and 1970s is not the architecture but the brief, the clients and the contractors. The authorities wanted them cheap, not good! However the first tenants did love living there it was the later lack of maintenance, poor repair and tenants unsuitable for higher living etc (Grenfell Tower etc) for some inexplicable reason (politics?) we architects get the blame for the failings of others. Procurement routes that require the contractor to design a building rarely work well as is constantly being demonstrated! The design team is contractually obliged to design what the contractor wants not what their client needs! Might I suggest a video on the Brunswick Centre in London? Designed my my tutor at Bath University (Patrick Hodgkinson) and when finally completed, properly, recently they asked him out of retirement to complete it to his original design :-)
Building from scratch often not working as planned made me think of an entire town that was built, and when I lived there in the 70s it was delightful and did work - for me at least. It reminded me a little in places of The Village in The Prisoner. I refer to South Woodham Ferrers in Essex. If you were so inclined and wished to research and explore, I'd be interested in your take on it.
This is near Archway, isn't it? I remember walking through all these on a wild night out many years ago! 1990's! I went to a house party but it was in a Victorian terrace, but we walked a good half hour to get there. I don't recall thinking it was a nice area at the time. Later, I had a friend who lived in a similar development in Forest Hill, his house was very spacious compared to mine. I didn't really like the concrete, but his balcony was also massive and lots of room to have a container garden. He didn't use it, which was a shame! I lived in an Edwardian maisonette at that time which was tiny.
@@drt1605 Was it your house party? 😆 Only joking. Seriously though, these are as nice as the inhabitants make them, just like Barbican, lots of plants rather soften the Brutalism. After all the years of house shares anyone would be desperate for the SPACE! Happy days though! 😊
IMHO the biggest problems of 1960/70s brutalism anywhere in the world are: 1. quick deterioration of concrete as surface material and 2. too many stairs, bridges and tight dark passages. Even if real crime rate is low it gives the perception of danger.
Bare concrete (or even worse, sheetrock) is a poor choice in wet climates. Brutalism tends to look better in drier places where the surface tends to discolour a lot more slowly. You can see this in places like Japan and the UK where the rain has stained all the concrete buildings and it makes them look awful.
I visited Thamesmead in the 80's and was dismayed to see bridges linking the tower blocks. That doesn't make it safe for anyone living in them knowing that somebody can get into a neighbouring block of flats and then come straight to their block of flats without having to go down to the ground floor, then outside and then in through the door entry system (if it existed then) to your block of flats. Not only do these tower blocks need door entry systems at the entrance but one for each floor. And in Caerphilly on the Lansbury Estate there was a long bridge from the estate over the green space besides because of a stream running through that needed only a low short bridge over it.
I also hate seeing those bridges linking shopping malls to department stores.
Brutalism was awful. Weirdly the early 1900s of Art Deco or English renascence was wonderful. Peak design.
I'm sure brutalist probably looked interesting in some small scale model, but in the real world, they were depressing and awful. Even this example, designed to have green spaces, just looks like depressing concrete greyness. The concrete only amplifies the horrid look of them as well.
To me the stairs and bridges are really cool and even beautiful. They create an interesting man-made landscape, almost like a playground.
@@Friek555 yes. Muggers agree with you. They playfully bound around the walkways and stairs after the attack and in to the labyrinth - impenetrable to police. It’s such fun!
As far as ex council estates go, I think this one actually works - low rise, greenery & blends into Highgate well. Please keep up these diversified reviews.
Have you even seen this estate...or a state ?
Have you ever BEEN or lived on this estate? It’s MISERABLE. Little dwelling hutches and public space where you are observed constantly. The walkways create a sense of foreboding tension and the criminality is on it and around it. The hutches for humans are like the ones on Rowley Way. Great if you want to film a ‘gritty police drama’ and then go back to one’s spacious BBC/Film4 funded Islington Town House - but Archway/Kentish Town toe-rags use the flats and walkways and have a different interpretation of ‘Brutalism’
It's not an ex council estate lol. Still owned by Camden Council
@@spursp2321 so why are apartments there selling privately at high prices?
@@peterwhitehead2453 because some flats have been purchased through right to buy scheme. The majority of flats are still council owned and the owners of the estate are still camden council
The lack of public information on this estate tells me it's a success. In my experience, people rarely praise something publicly but they will certainly criticise without hesitation.
I grew up in a tower block. It was one of three. It was different to the rest because it had 24x7 staff who were responsible for the security. I was told it was because it was designated for elderly, (but I don't recall that being the case). However the major difference was that it was pleasant with a community feel that the others did not have, and that was down to the focal point of having staff that enforced rules. Then the council decided to bribe the residents with a reduction in annual cost by replacing the staff with a 24 hour telephone hotline. My father moved out and he said that was the best decision he ever made, as the tower block degenerated to the same level of the other blocks around it.
Says it all,doesn't it?
I used to be a police officer in Camden, so became fairly au fait with the problems of the various estates, and my memories are that the Whittington never really suffered with a lot of the ills of its fellow council estates, although to be fair when compared with Boundary Rd or the Brunswick Centre it was quite a bit smaller. Maiden Lane was the modern estate that seemed to have more than its fair share of crime, often thought to be associated with its proximity to Kings Cross pre-regeneration and the problems that came with it. I'd never really considered it before, but I think the number of trees in and around the Whittington softened it a great deal, and made it feel part of it's environment rather than dominating it, like many of its comtempories.
Hello flipper, I'm very interested in urban regeneration and decay. What do you think are the causes of urban decay and why did kings cross regeneration work so well? And what are your thoughts on these estates?
How long ago? So was I and the Whittington Estate absorbed similar problems to Salisbury Walk. We executed loads of arrests and warrants there so not sure how this came to be. Camden 1999- 2003 and 2007-2014. It was nice it was surrounded by Highgate woods - but it was still frequented by EK /NI faces
@@LaPtiteAnglaise I was at Kentish from 97-02 and EO 02-03 all on B relief. So our paths must have crossed. NWW now which is whole different can of worms!
I grew up on this estate. Retcar Place. We were one of the first families to move in back in 1980 or so. The estate was still being finished and it took another two years or so.
Great little estate next to the new Highgate cemetery, just hop over a wall and you were in a jungle as it was a lot more overgrown back then. I moved out in the mid 90s but my mum and dad lived there till they died.
Whyd you move there
If someone asked you the area you lived did you say Archway?
That's handy. Just throw 'em over the wall. Joke.
Seriously, RIP
This is a rather good, well thought-out design. Those buildings actually look like they were meant for people to live in...
I grew up in the "white flats" as we called it, or the Whittington estate, to anyone who's not from the area... Up until the age of 10, and let me say they were the best years of my life, kids playing outside, neighbours used to ask for milk, and the mums would all sit on the wall to talk for what felt like hours after we finished school... The water fights and games like bulldog were the best, where most of the kids from the flats would be involved... Moved out to Kent to a 3 bedroom house, was never the same... I mean you still got your dodgy people in the flats, but we all knew who they were, in Kent it just had curtain twitchy vibes... However when my parents moved out, in the early 2000s alot of other people moved out at the same time, to the suburbs and apperently they went downhill after with more gangs as it lost its community feel...
It’s great to hear the experience of people who lived there. I grew up on a street of council houses till the age of 9 and then we moved to a house that my father bought a few miles away ( not near London at all) and the sense of community in the council street was gone in the private street despite the houses being well over 50 years old. 6 years ago I spent a 3 months between jobs delivering parcels in Plymouth, daily I would deliver to private estates, private flats and council estates and council flats. Most estates were pretty grim, but the people in the council estates certainly seemed to have more community, and there was one particular council block of flats where there were always groups of residents chatting and drinking and they all seemed to know each other, on a summer day when I made weekend deliveries a remarkable number of people and families were in the communial area with bbq and music and a huge number of people relaxing and playing.. it was amazing, I never ever saw anything like that in the expensive private housing areas.
I lived there for a couple of years round 2004. Really amazing year place. There were gangs , though they were no problem with residents. Our step was there meeting place, and they were very polite. Theye weren't Angels, and always had "cheap" phones for sale. Their antisocial antics also had the estate blacklisted by pretty much every food delivery service in the area. But as I say as a resident I never felt any danger of being the supplier of their next "cheap" phone.
“Lost its community feel” Blacks moved in. Is that what you mean?
I walked through it for the first time last week. In my head I named it Little Barbican. Surprised to learn there were no architectural connections.
I really like that stepped style, 70s architecture is definitely an improvement on the 60s, though it seems it's still a fairly unloved era on the whole.
Most of the "ugly" look of the estate would be fixed with a pressure washer
Or if they'd gone for brown concrete like the Barbican (which hides the dirt very effectively)
And possibly a large quantity of paint.
@@ZGryphon Paint peels and degrades too. Sure you can keep adding more but eventually you have to sand it back and start again which is not cheap if it's several hundred homes.
...other than the interminably repetative streetscapes that is.
Some architecture is ugly regardless of how clean from dirt and such it might be... I would not paint over concrete in most cases since it takes a relatively low maintenance surface and makes it into a more maintenance surface... My driveway is concrete and at least once a year, I use my pressure washer to clean it... Maybe more often than that since if I'm washing my car, I might continue and spray the driveway while I'm at it...
I love these essays on architecture, its impact on social housing and community. You really do present built environment in an interesting, well researched and thoughtful way. Brilliant.
as an architectural engineer I used to live in Kilburn part of Camden and passed many times these blocks looked always interesting, not my taste but I still find them interesting, it’s nice that you made a video about these. That style from the 70s I find very dystopian. It makes it look like zombies live there. I like London’s classical Victorian buildings and those homes with these windows kinda showing off kinda Bulging out don’t know what it’s called. They give off these home community vibes.
Miss my time in uk. I hope those tyrannical Gouvernements in Europe will leave soon, than I may come back.
Have you looked into Dawson’s Heights in Dulwich? Another estate designed by a graduate, who made balconies essential despite council opposition by incorporating them into fire escapes - so residents could have a little luxury. Also the hill it sits on is the direct result of the nearby railway line….
So many of the large building projects failed, not sure to the plan , but the unwillingness to fund them properly, build them within code, and all of the rest of the things any community needs to survive.
This estate, and Alexandra Road represented the pinnacle of architectural thought as applied to housing 60 years ago. I was a student at the time. Neave Brown was one of my critics, and I regarded these estates as thoughtful and carefully planned, under the then prevailing economic circumstances. Now the value of the old streets, incremental housing and maintaining commercial activity in the form of small shops is finally recognized. Ironically, that same value was also recognized 60 years ago by the writer Jane Jacobs, who was able to prevent the destruction of the Greenwich Village district in New York by expressways. Lessons learned the hard way.
As a Camden Council flat resident I can say that this block is one of the nicer ones in the area. There are a few gang issues but that's just mandatory for a Council estate here. It definitely looks and feels alot better than its neighbour blocks
Gangs show a social aspect so I guess that part of it kinda worked
@@rei3951 True 😂
As another resident of Camden I can say Camden Council are f***ing useless! 😂
@@hx0d yep agreed 😒😭
Councils have had extra responsibilities piled on them by central government, but no matching increase in central funding, and are prevented from raising funds via increasing council tax to meet the shortfall. Therefore services are cut back to the bare minimum, or sometimes below.
People still moan about brutalist aesthetics, but through my 2022 eyes, bringing the materials, structure and integrity of a building to the foreground has to be applauded. The unsavory links between developers and councils, and the age of austerity, mean that there is a real lack of trust in the quality of modern construction, especially low cost housing. With brutalism, what matters is on display. And lest we forget the tragedy of Grenfell, where the decision to clad over an 'unsightly' building cost 72 lives.
I was thinking just that myself - this is a building which appears structurally sound! I live in Australia, and the current wisdom here is don't buy anything built in the last 25 years unless you like the idea of waking up one morning to a crack that you and your neighbor could shake hands through... 15 floors up... in a load-bearing wall. I like decorative architecture, but I don't trust the pathetic panels I see on current housing stock do anything but hide flaws. One tip - don't "privatise" your building inspectors and leave them to be picked and paid by developers.
I thought that for Grenfell Towers, the main purpose of the cladding is insulation?
Citing Grenfell is a moronic false equivalence.
@@andyyu5957 The cladding was as insulating as it was fireproof. It was a cheap product to add an aesthetic veneer, sold as being environmentally beneficial. Any process to certify the supposed beneficial properties was funded by for profit labs. Now the taxpayer has to fork out compensation, local governments around the world are going after the certifies.
The issue mostly for me is bare concrete. It just gets so grimey looking over the years. It deteriorates, leaks, it's not a good surface material. And monotone grey everywhere, except for the mould, is so dull and dreary.
Amazing how many architects seem to forget that the coping on top of a wall is supposed to overhang the brickwork/stonework below. A water repellent engineering brick or equivalent material should be used to prevent the wall becoming constantly wet/saturated. This makes the wall almost self cleaning/maintaining and avoids the black staining.
I lived in council housing as a child. Council housing generally doesn’t work because the architects don’t consider the quality of life of the tenants and the need for green spaces, but rather the need to house many people quickly. I haven’t been to Camden council flats, but they seem much nicer than those in other places.
Many council estates were, on paper, a vast improvement from the slums that a lot of tenants previously occupied. They had a bathroom, central heating, a big kitchen and good size bedrooms. Unfortunately, the buildings turned out to have been cheaply/badly built and problems soon became evident. Over the years the problems mounted up and the lack of maintenance by the council proved fatal.
@@eattherich9215 The longevity in the design and the lack of improvement. Poor new towns that got that treatment.
My friend, this isn't the cause of mere architects who failed their opportunity to work for a high-end firm. This failure is entirely of your county
/council to secure contractors on a common sense meritocratic basis. I'll name you the name of 5 housing developers that are given government approval to screw you over for profit.
@@eattherich9215 totally 👍🏻
2:50 - At least the neighbours are quiet and give no trouble. ⚰️⚰️⚰️
For a late-1970s design that embraces Brutalist design philosophies, this is a rather pleasant council estate. Remarkable what happens when you take social interaction into consideration with respect to community design. Thanks for another fun, informative video, Jago!!
Wonderful this is covered - I drive pass this each week and have long admired its architecture. Thank you for telling us all about it.
I would personally say that just because a third of all tenants were more than happy to buy their residence outright, that in and of itself is a glowing confirmation that yes, it worked. People felt safe and happy enough there that they wanted to keep living there, and the prices for such homes skyrocketed. Absolutely a success.
@@tremensdelirious ohh yesit is a massive issue but the point is correct. They wanted to buy because they like them and like living there, that makes the estate a success
People bought the accommodation because they could save money in the short term and make a lot a lot of money in the long term. With a narrow scope then I would say it was success.
Right to buy, for many council tenants, was the only way they could get on the property ownership ladder. It’s nit as if they could pick and choose where they’d like to live and buy into.
The actual design doesn't sound too bad. It just seems that the use of a dodgy contractor buggered things up from the start--a problem we over here in Quebec have in spades with a construction industry controlled both by the mafia and SNC Lavallin (but I repeat myself). Being a Montrealer, I am rather more inured to brutalism than most given that our metro system and many of the big buildings constructed during the 60's and 70's "Quiet Revolution" era used the style.
Love the socio-economic historical videos
You can see how they shifted from Vertical to Horizontal layouts in the 1970s. I visited the Neave Brown Alexandra Road estate in 2019 (on a very SUNNY day!) and thought the place absolutely beautiful. People plant gardens in those stepped back balconies, there were lots of trees grown in between the blocks and the whole place felt very organic. I would love to live there. Same with these, they look very nice and pleasant (apart from the rain... )
this was sick. love your content
Thanks! I’m a fan of your channel also!
E-scooter vandaliser here, in your most recent video your personal scooter looked mighty fine for a beatdown. If it ever breaks down, do get in touch x
I know the weather didn't help but good lord, this looks depressing.
I thought it looked quiet nice, and wouldn’t mind living there.
@@AtheistOrphan Speak for yourself 😬
Well if you're going to continue with famous Council Estates - you have to cover Broadwater Farm in Tottenham! It's certainly a "jewel" of Harringey!
Love when you talk about council estates. Really interesting part of London and the UK.
FANTASTIC episode. I love the architecture videos. I would have said it was a very interesting ‘bridge’ between true brutalist and the more ‘toned down’ styles that followed. The potential seems to me to have been tremendous if the buildings were used and maintained in the way the architects had imagined they would. Even taking into account that never happened, this ‘hybrid’ looks to be a pleasant place to live, in an inherently overcrowded city.
It would have been interesting to see some interior footage, and also hear from some occupants. But I find these very interesting.
The Barbican got a round kicking for being a brutalist failure at one point. But the truth is, it just isn’t. It has formed the kind of city locked oasis it was always meant to be. Too many brutalist schemes were akin to buying a spoon and then proclaiming it was bad at cutting steak. They were designed to fit in a community that the councils never ‘followed through’ on. It wasn’t the fault of the buildings. Much as I don’t like architects, they were not the culprits.
The strongest message from watching these, is looking at the sheer ambition of councils to build better. They failed in the greatest part. But they tried. What do we have now from councils?
It’s rhetorical, because clearly the answer is nothing at all.
Former paramedic in Camden and Islington, and from time to time would go into these flats with work. The interiors are generally well built and in pretty good nick (though I don’t know which are council and which are private). They are spacious inside, and do get a lot of natural light - far more than my flat of the same era. I would live here in a heartbeat if the opportunity arose, but I am biased by a love for brutalism.
Haha me too, I'd kill to live in one of them
You could do something on the Becontree Estate; said to be the largest estate in the world when it was built. For a while it even had its own railway for the transportation of building materials.
I think that a lick of white paint and a visit during summer days could do a lot to improve the look of the place. It has character and was designed with greenery in mind so it has potential to be real pretty
I can remember when no-one wanted to be in Park Hill & Norfolk Park in Sheffield yet those areas are both very popular today...
These types of videos are always fascinating, keep them coming! I know in the new year video you talked about perhaps making more videos outside of London and I would love to hear your take on Glasgow’s Red Road
Have you thought about doing Lillington Gardens in Pimlico? It's one of the best estates of the second half of the twentieth century, with streets in the sky and all sorts. There's a rather tragic tale to it - the architect never actually saw the buildings. He was given the site map, and designed the estate, but committed suicide before ever seeing the site. It also has a much older church in the middle of it - Victorian, I think - called Saint James the Less, around which the estate was built.
I always find these "estate" videos very interesting. Architecture is something I know very little about and my only experience of these kind of estates comes from the Scottish "new towns".
Whil there are similarilties here to East Kilbride and the other four, this really reminds me of the hotel complex I stayed in, in Estonia.
The Estonian block certainly looked better maintained but, as you mentioned, the season maybe didn't help with Whittington. If the greenery had been in bloom, it might well have looked better. My considered opinion? I've seen worse.😁
“Brutalism with a human face” is an amusing phrase to me as an architecture student because brutalism itself, especially that of Peter and Alison Smithson (Robin Hood Gardens), was basically meant to be “modernism with a human face.” My personal opinion about the “failures” of public housing is that it’s more often policy and funding (like noted here) that makes it “fail” and not design, but I’m obviously biased. Especially where I am in North America, older public housing projects face major problems of insularity and isolation (the well-intentioned car separation can do that). Those obviously are design failures, but they’re also often the result of urban planning policies. Anyways, great video, I really appreciate high quality opinions on architecture from beyond the discipline.
If you’re interested in progressive, humanisticly inclined social-housing outside London with a similar story, Alexandra Park (1965, Toronto) designed by Jerome Markson is worth looking up. Unfortunately it’s now mostly slated for demolition but it was a very successful design with some major flaws.
I’m a bit late, but I’ve had some Americans say that The Projects over there have a lot of the same issues as housing mega blocks did here; which makes me think it’s definitely policy rather than design based.
I live round the corner and have always enjoyed walking by this peaceful, considered architecture. The terracing and layout also gives privacy to the balconies. Thanks for adding insight to its history.
Reducing the size of the windows due to budget restrictions was probably a blessing in disguise. Large glazing looks cool on the drawing board, but will boil you in reality.
Nice tribute to a noble attempt at housing for all. I’m sure the big developers will be waiting patiently in the wings to sweep it all away.
The trouble with separating vehicles from housing is that you can't access your car easily. Sucks to be disabled when you can't walk far (if at all) and need to hike to your car. And that's if you can remember where you parked it.
You can't get deliveries easily, either. Want your week's groceries delivered? The driver needs to move the whole lot on a trolley. Then possibly up stairs, too.
Getting your own shopping in? Same problems! Buy your own trolley, or just steal a new one every week and chuck it in the nearest water course when you're done.
Trying to find a specific home when not a resident? Good luck! GPS won't help you. There's no signal there either and you're also leaving your vehicle unattended.
Good comments. The architects never actually have to live in these homes with their families and go about normal daily lives. Look good on paper but then..
This was a treat to see in my feed, I've done lots of deliveries to that estate when I was working from the archway area.
I’ve love these London estate episodes. I grew up on the Stockwell park estate in south London but often visited friends on the surrounding estates and high rise blocks. I always as a child thought they were in stark contrast to the surrounding Victorian architecture of Brixton and Stockwell. And we all know about the unrest Brixton experienced in the 80s. Keep these videos coming Jago. They really are every bit as relevant and great as the Tube vids 👍
Stockwell Park Estate - Yikes!
@@DealerD8vE yes. Even worse in the 80s when I was at primary school. But now very trendy with people such as Martin kemp
@@blackhawk69100 I hear you. The crime rate was so crazy around that time that a friend asked me to flatsit his place while he was away. However, less than a week into my stay the flat was burgled while I was at work. They simply kicked the front door open and emptied it. Even took his 3-piece sofa!
Cops said it was probably one of the neighbours but didn't bother making any enquiries - and positively laughed out loud when I asked whether they were going to dust the place for prints.
The council never came to fix the door - while I was there at least. Had to wedge a bed that had been graciously left behind, between the door and the facing wall. Used to get woken up by the postman stuffing letters through the letterbox tickling my feet. I always slept uneasy at the thought that someone might pour some petrol in and immolate me.
I'm an expat now but I thought the estate had been torn down.
@@DealerD8vE no it’s very much still there. That’s an all to familiar story unfortunately. Pretty much the same thing happened to our family. They smashed the upstairs window in for entry and actually took everything through the front door. I mean everything too. Even toys, bedding, kitchen utensils. Police came and dusted in our case but nothing came of it. But the council did replace the front door with a dead bolt door and the window. But from that point we deliberately didn’t have anything of worth until we moved out of London in 1988. I bet many residents would have the same story to tell.
@@blackhawk69100 Terrible times. You mentioned that it's now popular with trendies. Does that mean it's been gentrified like much of Brixton?! Or is it attracting the arty grunge brigade that used to dwell in places like Hoxton before that went upmarket?
Even from the left-hand-side of the Atlantic, the problem, inasmuch as there is one, is brutally apparent to me:
"Conservative" politicians hating anything that gives a leg-up to the hindmost of society chronically underfunding, short-shrifting, and shafting any kind of social housing (here we call them "Projects," over there y'all have "Council Estates," etc.), _inevitably_ results in them being poverty traps; with poverty traps comes poverty, with poverty inevitably comes crime, either as a means of advancement outside the restrictive boundaries allowed, or simply as a relief valve for stress, or as a means of protection.
_Fund_ a place like this well, ensure it _remains_ a place for people who have nothing to find shelter and sanctuary, give them some sense of ownership stake in the place _without letting them buy it outright and then turn around and gentrify it so that others like them cannot afford it,_ and above all, _fund the place._ Provision the money required for the staffing requirements, and maintenance and upkeep, and don't deal with a stingy hand. The rising fortunes of the inhabitants will more than pay for things when you can tax them.
If not much has been written about living there that is probably indicative that it wasn't a bad experience. Books and articles saying "This is place is okayish/average" don't tend to sell well compared to horror stories of youth plagued corridors and leaking roofs.
I clicked the LIKE button even before watching this video! CZcams should provide a LOVE button because I just love these videos about council estates. I watch them multiple times. Good Job.
Council housing/social housing, it's an impossible circle to square.
Space available, density requirements, budget availability,cost per unit, projected timescale, all these have hindered many an idealogical scheme.
For future videos,which may still have some transport interest links,there's Bourneville and Port sunlight etc, more modern ideals such as Milton Keynes,let's not forget horror of horrors,Cumbernauld.
The other often ignored social engineering of the late fifties and earl sixties ,is the new car factories, manufacturers were forced to go to areas of high unemployment, miles away from their traditional heartland.
Ford,Vauxhall and Triumph to Liverpool, Rootes and Leyland to Scotland.
That'd be some interesting trips for you Jago don't you think.
Bathgate please !
That estate reminds me a bit of the Brunswick Centre which is also in Camden but was finished before The Whittington Estate
My thoughts exactly 👍
Reminds me very much of the style of accommodation blocks at the former Merchant Navy College at Greenhithe. It was built into a hillside too and used the same style of block work.
Reminds me of the Jethro Tull song Cross-Eyed Mary, which celebrates said eponymous heroine by saying "She's the Robin Hood of Highgate/Helps the poor man get along", which is so deep I've lost a welly. Unfortunately, the song came from the Aqualung album, which was released in 1971, when the project was still no'but a twinkle in the milkman's eye.
I do enjoy your occasional departures from trains into social history.
I love how much thought was put into this project. Shows the designer was thinking about it from the point of view of someone who would be living there rather than bringing the cost down as much as possible.
I’ve been meeting to explore this estate for ages. It reminds me of the flat we lived in when my father worked in Oslo in the 70s. Very similar in style to the ziggurat design with underground parking. Happy New Year, by the way - your videos became the round window to my lockdown Playschool. ☺️
I was in Oslo a few years ago, and walked through a series of apartments that looked very similar. And there is a social housing block in Austria that looks very similar, too, if I recall.
my old boss lived in one of those.
i remeber going there many times in the mid 80's
The genre was defined, at least as far as London's concerned, by Russell Square's Brunswick Centre, although in that case a cored of shops was flanked by similar housing units.
I must be getting old I guess. The postwar concrete brutalism, which always seemed so dingy and depressing in my youth, has started to acquire a certain nostalgic longing, and even a strange kind of beauty to my eyes. I even did my A levels in a building of that style, halfway up Putney hill on the right, stood the Putney branch of South Thames College, now demolished and redeveloped.
I also spent nearly twenty years of my life living on the edge of Plymouth, which is possibly now the most unspoiled surviving example of this type of construction. When I first moved there I thought it was all rather sad and run-down, but over the years I came to see something else, which is certainly deserving of preservation. I think even though the architecture is... I guess the term brutal really is the best descriptor, it is also oddly totemic of a much simpler time, when we had these wildly optimistic ideas about how people would live in the future, and what the shape of our society might be.
In those days the thinking was of a big, centralised, slightly authoritarian, yet basically paternalistic society, in which those "nice men from the government" would always look after you (cradle to grave), tell you what to do, and sort out the unruly neighbor whose dog was always crapping on your driveway.
Meanwhile the reality in which we eventually woke up, fifty or more years later, turned out to be infinitely more complex, highly individualistic, and tougher to survive in. These days it is rather more everyone for themselves. The government has shrunk, and all but gone out of business, and the parts of it that remain are just as likely to be busy breaking their own laws (by partying during a lockdown), as they are to be sorting out your unruly neighbor. Meanwhile technology has rendered vast swathes of humanity as almost purposeless, not really needed, and thus prone to all kinds of mischief, including the spreading of crazy conspiracy theories.
Self reliance, and small decentralised, self sustainable communities, now seem to be the thing.
In such an age, the remaining concrete brutalist structures, like this one, for all their flaws, are an oddly comforting reminder of the simple and optimistic big dreams we once had. Looking at your video, it isn't difficult to catch hold of a glimpse of the magnificent vision that the Architect must have had. The only real shame is that the execution of his dreams was clearly compromised by cost cutting and resources issues.
I grew up in probably the first post war flats in central London. Lovely place to grow up in the fifties when the people were nice and I knew every family in the 18 flats in my block. Now these flat projects are largely nightmare places to live in. One thing is certain few of these architects who won many a prize for their projects would ever want to live in one.
A video on the Barbican Estate itself and its success comparatively speaking, would be warranted by this stage, sir!
As featured on a Richard & Linda Thompson album cover
I worked on it as a laborer around 1978 .I lived in a bed sit at the time .Would have loved to have gotten one from the Council to live in .Nice big balcony and low rise are the best features to me .Also location a short walk from Archway for bus and Tube .
As someone studying a masters in urban planning these videos are always great to see
Don't rely h this half baked personal view . Not much research and you as a student deserve better. Jago is a transport specialist , and quiet uniformed and depending on dodgy sources with respect to architecture and urban planning
@@willhovell9019 I mean it's just a fun video to watch, I'm not using it as a source in my work. And transport and planning do overlap in some ways, for example I just did a mock dissertation on Cardiff Metro system
@Nikky T fair enough . Really enjoy most of Jago's vids , but his pieces on public housing architecture are mostly personal opinions that feed a neo conservative Tory narrative that has done everything it can since the dark era of Thatcher to undermine social and public housing. These personal views are particularly unhelpful in an era of London wide central Government fuelled housing crisis. I'm sure that this is in unintended , a bit like Orwell's works being selectively used as anti left propaganda. There's nothing wrong with utopian housing projects. As long as the architects and planners are prepared to live in them , which is the case in Camden low rise developments
Don't forget Hampstead Garden suburb , Howard's Welwyn Garden City and Levita House in Somers Town. All have stood the test of time.
I remember being there 25 years ago. I was on my honeymoon and my wife and I had to find a laundromat. It was a peaceful Sunday AM. As the morning and early PM went on we decided we needed to finish up our business and move on. It wasn't bad but we both thought it would not be a nice area at night.
I love the Tube and train videos, and I extra love these explorations of council estates and other architecture (the Elephant and Castle mall was rather close to my heart in a bizarre way as well...). 'Tis like the gravy upon the meat and potatoes, if you will.
Keep up the great work, Jago, and thank you for your efforts!
I live in Dartmouth Park about 2 mins walk from here! So nice to see you in my area!
Thanks for the vids, they're shining jewels of britishness for my foreign eyes
As someone who has worked and studied in housing all my working life I find these social housing fascinating (and even though I'm a train nerd too) prefer them to your underground ones. More please Jago
It's not the worst looking estate though it needs one hell of a jet wash. I really do like the emphasis on greenery, it really takes the edge off the truly brutal use of concrete.
Yeah I was going to say the same, just power wash the buildings and will look good as new! What is it about this country that we never seem to look after the exterior of our buildings...
Wait a second I think I've spotted a pattern here in British thinking...
@@alexgreenwood3179 Not British thinking, council thinking
Perfect timing - Just sitting down to eat my lunch and a new Jago video to watch whilst eating
It’s like you live inside my head knowing exactly what I want to watch - this has always been one of my favourite examples of Brutalist architecture, it’s so interesting and imagination-provoking. I’ve been dying to get down there and photograph it to make some art based around it.
Thank you for another amazing video! I live for this stuff.
Very often it seems the builders are not up to constructing the architects ideas, and that architects need additional input from the man on the ground as to what is feasible in a build program.
Just like Grand Designs! ‘We’ll project-manage it ourselves’.
Look at louvain la neuve for a newly designed (1960s, nothing existed there before) town that works beautifully.
and the proof that architecture is secondary to planning. The architecture is mostly rather bland, with a few iconic buildings, such as the main church. And that was deliberate, it was meant to be somewhat timeless in stead of dated quickly.
I used to live near here and I always liked walking around this estate. I then moved to Crystal Palace and lived right next to the Central Hill estate which is another fascinating architectural-social experiment that is now due for demolition. I’d love to see a video on that! *hint hint*
How anybody ever thought that the Brutalist style was attractive is completely beyond me. After a few years the concrete gets stained and discolored, cracks develop, and the whole place looks like a leaky, moldy mess. And everything's just GRAY and dreary and depressing. I haven't seen a single Brutalist structure that aged well. I appreciate the social ideologies that went into the concept, but unfortunately high-minded design concepts don't create lasting structures; they create expensive liabilities. Vanity projects for middle-class dreamers in ivory towers.
Haha - you must be talking about the old Edmonton Green Shopping Centre that they built in the late 60s! Gosh that was a monstrosity! They may have covered the extra with flashy new builds, but inside it's still just as ugly!
I dunno, I kinda like it. Needs some paint and the concrete needs patching, but after 40 years what doesn't?
Were the concrete panels defective because of the basic design, or did the manufacturer screw up?
More please, I love your architecture videos. You mentioned you were thinking of doing videos that would start to look outside of London. I know its a subject that has been covered a lot over the years, but I'd love to see something on the more controversial or even down right bizarre Beeching decisions.
I have to say I always admired this estate, albeit from afar as I have only been past it, usually on a bus, and not actually in it. I like that it fits in to the surroundings rather than dominating them, sitting rather nicely among the green areas with its balconies and stepped profile. There’s almost a certain modesty about it as though it’s designed to appear to be rather less than it actually is, which I suppose is almost diametrically opposed to the intent and purpose of the stark white elephant contemporaries. I can’t help wonder if the junior status of the architect was to do with that…🤔
I was born 5 mins up the road at the Hospital and I’ve been to the cemetery…maybe I should visit here for a full set? 🤷🏻♂️
Cheers Jago great fun as ever 👍🍀🥂
There’s a really good book, “Cook’s Camden”, which covers many of the housing projects in Camden in the 60s and 70s. The Whittington estate gets a long, interesting and extremely well illustrated chapter. The illustrations include some from the early days, interior pictures, and plans of all the various designs of residences. Recommended, although unfortunately it’s not cheap. But a really good account of one of the places where Brutalism came quite close to working.
I believe the approach of those that built the high rise council homes was 'stack them high and make them cheap'. They didn't care how pleasant, safe or practical these constructions were to live in (imagine what it must be like moving into a flat near the top!). The people were housed and had running water and electricity.
I grew up just off Highgate Hill.
The Whittington Estate always struck me as a unusual good quality build. And it never seemed to have the rough and tumble appearance that other council housing had.
I like them. And as a teenager I remember saying I'd like to live there.
I’m not ashamed to say that I love this channel. The way you go into detail about things that we say every day in our lives yeah take for granted is very interesting to me.
The estate you’re talking about in this episode is very similar to another one in North London called Rollie way(may be spelt wrong).
Another crime ridden run a state similar to this one, is Graham Park estate near Colindale Northwest London.
It beggars belief what the designers of these estates were thinking. Did they not think for a second about the policing aspects of these concrete monstrosities
The Whittington Estate was shown allot in the 2018 TV series Bodyguard, it's cool to see the place itself, you can see all the filming spots.
This is my favorite topic you cover... The contrast between the traditional buildings and the futuristic ones, free development vs over-planification, utopian dreams turned to dystopia... Still I can't help but enjoy that these things exist, I appreciate their alien looks and their impressive size... and they still serve as a caution against hubristic ambitions
Used to walk around it when I went to school nearby in the 80's . Always liked the estate personally. It had an air about it that somehow it was expensive exclusive.
Another great video Jago 🙌🙌
Wish I could do this haha, im studying architecture next year hopefully... great video!
PS: A video on the Brunswick Centre next?
There are many carry overs on my side of the pond. Seattle went for the "Mixed Income" model. Full on public housing was knocked down and new development went in which meant that only about 1/3 of the families that made up the old community returned. So very different. Vast majority of our pubic stock began life as WW2 housing for war production workers. one to three story wood frame buildings. Two to seven dwelling units per building.
Pubic 🗿
that wouldn't be half as bad if it also meant other areas got more social housing, but they rarely did, of course.
Very well filmed and narrated, as ever. I used to live close by, on Hornsey Rise, and I'm amazed I don't remember visiting this estate.
Great vid as always, yes please more of this , I work next to this estate for the last 20 years and stands out from the rest of the area
I really like your Estate videos. This is how I found your channel, from the excellent Robin Hood Gardens video.
I’ve visited this estate and walked through it. I found the look of the place very unusual and quite charming with a friendly, vibrant feel.
VERY interesting! Thank you for making these. One thing though.... (and I know this is 'an ask' which may be ridiculous, or difficult) ... I am SO CURIOUS to see the INSIDES of one of these Brutalist structures. It's one thing to see the outsides... and, as one commenter mentioned (and I had the very same thought): They would look a hell of a lot nicer/friendlier given a going over with a pressure washer! And, as YOU mentioned, it is Winter! ... but as they are living spaces, it's not fair to judge without having seen what they are like from the inside. Besides all that, THANK YOU!
A very interesting and well balanced analysis of this social housing, alias "brutalism with a human face". As mentioned, a huge problem was and is the lack of maintance. When the houses were brand new, it had an astounishing bright and futuresque apprearence (this progressive look combined with the grown vegetation (which was often newely planted just after building the houses would be even more attractive today). Many of those buildings never have been renovated with care (f.e. the concrete facade just has to be preasure cleaned and it looks like new again). The Thatcher years with its running deep cuts of social projects and care had a bad infuence on the local communities, too. The lack of social workers, shared rooms and spaces quickly showed the short sighted thinking - even those economic-fixed people should realize that a pound cut on social care are two+ pounds to be spend on fixing the consequences (police, graffiti removal, etc.). Community housing like Whittington Estate or Alexandra Road were a good middle way between super high rises and room consuming single housing.
Always seems to be the case that when you really dig around as to why infrastructure fails, it's due to neglect and a lack of maintenance. When will people learn?
@@olivercuenca4109 Maybe need to learn that they should design out the need for maintenance?
@@rogink Well that’s the funny thing isn’t it? Most of these mid-century modernist housing projects were designed to be extremely low maintenance, and so often people STILL failed to maintain them.
@@olivercuenca4109 Well, if they were designed that way, clearly the design was flawed! By the 1970s it was well known of exposed concrete's flaws - not just to staining through natural processes, but as a perfect canvas for graffiti.
If the designer assumed that you would need to come back every few years to pressure wash grime off, he was an idiot. I live in a house built in 1880 - time is certainly not on its side, but at least superficially it looks OK.
impressive, informative and well balance video Jago - yes, would like to see more
There is a set of apartments, along side the equivalent of Central Park, in the tiny town I come from, that look strikingly like these, except made from wood. I’ve always had a low level fantasy of living in them. This is such a beautiful and understated design.
great vid jago keep them coming
The problem with the buildings designed in the 1960s and 1970s is not the architecture but the brief, the clients and the contractors. The authorities wanted them cheap, not good! However the first tenants did love living there it was the later lack of maintenance, poor repair and tenants unsuitable for higher living etc (Grenfell Tower etc) for some inexplicable reason (politics?) we architects get the blame for the failings of others. Procurement routes that require the contractor to design a building rarely work well as is constantly being demonstrated! The design team is contractually obliged to design what the contractor wants not what their client needs!
Might I suggest a video on the Brunswick Centre in London? Designed my my tutor at Bath University (Patrick Hodgkinson) and when finally completed, properly, recently they asked him out of retirement to complete it to his original design :-)
Building from scratch often not working as planned made me think of an entire town that was built, and when I lived there in the 70s it was delightful and did work - for me at least. It reminded me a little in places of The Village in The Prisoner. I refer to South Woodham Ferrers in Essex. If you were so inclined and wished to research and explore, I'd be interested in your take on it.
This is near Archway, isn't it? I remember walking through all these on a wild night out many years ago! 1990's! I went to a house party but it was in a Victorian terrace, but we walked a good half hour to get there. I don't recall thinking it was a nice area at the time.
Later, I had a friend who lived in a similar development in Forest Hill, his house was very spacious compared to mine. I didn't really like the concrete, but his balcony was also massive and lots of room to have a container garden. He didn't use it, which was a shame! I lived in an Edwardian maisonette at that time which was tiny.
@@drt1605 Was it your house party? 😆 Only joking. Seriously though, these are as nice as the inhabitants make them, just like Barbican, lots of plants rather soften the Brutalism. After all the years of house shares anyone would be desperate for the SPACE! Happy days though! 😊