Decision-Making in Smash
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- čas přidán 24. 02. 2020
- When your next decision determines the fate of the match - do you stop and think, or let your instincts take over?
Special thanks to:
twitch.tv/vgbootcamp
twitch.tv/btssmash
twitch.tv/ssbmhax
Further reading:
The Inner Game of Tennis
lloD's Guide to Improvement (docs.google.com/document/d/1x...)
Laugh's Theory ( • Analysis: The Three Ty... )
Thanks for watching!
rishissb
twitch.tv/rishi
rishissb - Hry
rishi's advanced guide to the philosophy of fsmashing in neutral
Don't forget the pivot though.
to be fair you need to have a very iq to understand fsmashing in neutral
lmao i swear this is literally the phenomenology of smash, ideas explored in this video could very well be extended to everyday life
As an Ultimate player all options lead to up b out of shield
If your character has a good up b out of shield, you're carried. That's just how it is, I don't make the rules.
(cries in DK and Ike player)
Listen if my opponent even thinks about touching my shield that's on them
i heh'd
Sounds lame
THAT ENDING LMAO
A suprise, to be sure, but a welcome one
That alone was worth a like
The inner leffen
I love how Zain picks up hungry box's controller after he pops off on him
Respect the game
What a gentlemen
@@sudarshanseshadri5504 enh, it's hype.
@@sudarshanseshadri5504 I don't think it was disrespectful. Just a popoff tbh
I think one of the major things this model is missing is how much our conscious attention in game is structured. Rather than say what is mang0 seeing when he picks up on a habit he can use later, asking what a high level player is ignoring can be much more instructive. Wizzy has said that when he's reaction tech chasing there is no room for any other information about the game to come through. He has to tune out literally everything in order to execute his win condition. The set of information filters we construct as competitors is integral in what defines our play style and decision tree. The filters are part of the "doer" part of your paradigm, but IMO should be treated as distinct from purely physical execution part of doing.
This is actually hella informative, this should get signal boosted because this is super important and not something I see getting talked about at all.
That explains why my reaction time is literal shit when I'm actually thinking and not playing on instinct.
@@lmao2302 And wizzy is probably tuning in to the handful of pixels on the screen that in a microsend will indicate where the opponent is teching... how many players are looking at the screen, or their character, hearing the music, seeing colors -- wasted info, wasted attention.
this is very important in shooter games too (entire point of crosshair placement)
Out of all the analysts I'm definitely the inner Complainer.
Excellent video as always Rishi!
Omg it's False Swipe Gaming
Custom Robo music slaps so hard man, SUCH an under rated game and soundtrack
The soundtrack is amazing, but I tried to go back to that game in 2019 and it does not hold up well. The graphics are terrible and the writing is poor.
Tried it again recently, not fun
Custom Robo goes hard not because of the graphics and story but the gameplay battle royale can be hype as fuck
I'm impressed you referenced one of the best tennis books you can read for trying to go pro. I usually don't sub to melee channels but here I go
Woah it’s yee
Inner game of tennis is practically the fighting game bible. Having played tennis and melee, im pretty sure it's better melee advice than tennis advice. (Not to take from away its profound insights into improving at tennis)
In real fighting, bruce lee would have told you to "be like water" and im pretty sure he was talking about the same thing. It's all about flow state.
I've always viewed the relationship between the doer and analyst (self 1/self 2) like a relationship between horse and rider. The rider (analyst) guides the horse (doer), but the horse is truly in control. If the rider tries to force their will on the horse, the horse won't respond well. Instead, the rider must gently nudge the horse in the right direction and let it go.
Thats a perfect analogy
Beautifully said
Entering a perfect flow state or "the zone" is then fusing with the horse to become an out of control reverse cenataur who runs 10 times faster than a horse at its fastest speed.
In other words, flow. You expressed a major problem found in competitive gamers quite elegantly.
As someone who rides this is incredibly true
Came for the Rishi, stayed for the stinger.
I used to main peach for a while until I realized how much I liked to complain about Melee.
Thank you Rishi I found out my third self for some time now as a Fox player, but I didn't know that the voice was a my "inner complainer"
same but i like pissing people of besides complaining once a peach main now a puff main
Excellent video. Great work Rishi!
Rishi: What should Marth do in this situation.
E: L+R+A+ST DK
hey smash god, this is umbreon. i remember you helping vote on rule sets in the melee back room wayyy back in like 2007. you've come a long way since then, good work
when the pop quiz came up, i picked "grab" and was disappointed when there wasnt an option for it. even with 2 matches of prior information, i personally would not risk a neutral blade hit at 0% in a MU that is so specific to grabs. fox also has poor position on marth and has no good choice but to dash and hope marth doesnt correctly take stage, making grab that much better.
my heart tells me that you edited that winning DK footage onto that B-roll, but my mind saw the big house and knows it's true
I’ve really enjoyed the last few videos you made. They do a good job at being both informative and entertaining. Also, you always have good BGM choices. Keep it up!
I just opened the video, i am on the pop quiz, and my prediction is you will talk about the quiz options the entire video and then determine grabbing was actually the best option at the very end
poor read
@@joe4570 yeah i'm a little disappointed, the end card meme was definitely not what i expected
yeah, he said next best. was it just assumed that grab was actually the best?
I honestly expected grab to be one of the options. In hindsight it definitely would've whiffed but I figure that's just what most marths would do in neutral while that close to fox.
If this ended up being correct I would not have believed it
The "inner mogul mover".
In your head there are two wolves, neither one can ledgedash
Wow, Rishi, I must say that in the first portion of the video, I was let down by your choice of presenting a quiz with such pointless direction, but you completely swept that up -- only using it to ease into some very profound philosophical discussion about the nature of "pointless direction" and cultivating it to be the right direction for you... There is much benefit to identifying personal mind body and heart patterns in one's own gameplay, and even more benefit to identifying it in one's opponent; it doesn't lose value whether it's done before or during a match. It is just an incredibly valuable lesson and guide to focus development.
I would also like to add that I have NEVER seen such relevant and fascinating clips adjacent to commentary related to their contents... For me, watching Mango follow Shroomed as you articulate the abstract definition or articulation of heart logic was like watching a puzzle piece finish a puzzle. Likewise with n0ne short hopping back in front of shield. You are wonderful for creating this; I am ecstatic for more of your rationality!
Nice
this is a perfect video and i love you so much for making it Rishi, thank you
"in my set against zain at the big house 8"
This is an extremely well thought out video that applies so handily to competition in general - well done! Love it!
We seriously need more videos like this. This video has been a landmark for my progression as a player
Actually one of the most useful videos I’ve ever seen for smash. Every player needs to see this. Fantastic work
great video, love hearing you discuss the way you see the game + mindset interactions.
Excellent work and very insightful, had to go back through just to fully understand, thank you so much !!
Thanks for the upload, Rishi! I've been looking forward to it! Great video
Just found your channel I really like how you tackle subjects in a different way to others. You are my new favorite smash youtuber. Love the content keep it up!
Between this and the choosing your main video I’m lovin the content
Nice video ! Feel like your ideas are well explained and the music is rad 👌👌🤙🏻
These video essays are too good, please keep making them!
This video really helped me understand how I go about thinking, and how to improve my way of thinking. Thanks Rishi.
This whole way of vidoe really spoke to me and i think ill try and think and look diffrently at smash now. Thanks rishi, awesome vid 👌
Rishi, you are insanely good at this. You have an excellent cadence and a nice vocal tone overall. Keep making stuff!
Great video! Reminded me of Gerald Lee’s Core-A Gaming video on the same subject of 3 Types of Player. Both are excellent.
There is always a balance one must learn in everything. You can't be too emotional or too calculated. You need to incorporate both in order to succeed, otherwise your plan falls apart and you become predictable. It's always a tough balance, learning it comes with time and reflection, but there are ways to make it easier. One of which is to pick a character can apply a play style of balance well in a match. For this reason I argue Mario is SS+ tier and will dominate the meta in 24 years when player's brains have evolved enough to see the game in slow motion and get the optimal punishes every time
The INNER COMPLAINER: When you're having a tough time with that ONE character when you're playing the BEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME and you rave about how doomed the future of this game is, while other players of weaker characters are putting up with several bad MUs.
Great video. Definitely put into words how I’ve felt about my competitive mindset these pst 2 years. Including part 3 of the guide ;) I would’ve liked to see you mention execution, as I believe it’s a smaller but crucial part of accessing the analyst and doer abilities at a higher capacity.
A great companion book to The Inner Game of Tennis is Brad Gilbert's Winning Ugly. If you read it, Gilbert himself might sound a lot like the protagonist from the manga Baby Steps which is also about tennis. He talks a lot about formulating a gameplan (as an analyst) and "programming" yourself (as the doer) to react to the situations you think will come up. He talks all about how he does this for specific players while he was on the pro tour, and outlines his plans on how to beat the world's top tennis players at the time (which he has at least on one occasion, except for a couple).
Rumor has it the boys are still smashing to this day regardless of skill level.
Love this content. Keep it up, Rishi!
one of the best vidoes ive come across in years
it was a good decision to watch this video
Damn good video Rishi.
Also hype part 3
I was thinking of The Inner Game of Tennis when you mentioned the analyst and the doer, amazing book
This is the type of melee videos i want. Keep them coming
Loved the choice of music!
Good content! Well sourced and thought out.
Great video ! I've never seen this subject explained from that angle
This video was great!! I really appreciate that you used custom robo music! I subscribed! I look forward to your next videos
watch the rest of his channel
This is genuinely beautiful
This is the most helpful guide of its kind. Thanks Rishi.
Very important aspect of the game that is difficult to explain. Great video dude!
I love this video is like a bridge between melee technique and zen teachings.
another fantastic video rishi
Love the chill Custom Robo music, great video
love your work man
I love your take on the philosophy of melee.
Thank you for the video Rishi. I hope i improve thx to this :D
Yeah this guy is going to blow up. He’s a genius! No cap
I love these thoughts
These are the kind of topics I enjoy seeing people's points of view on, thanks for making this! My analyst and doer don't collaborate well; doer refuses to work when I give the analyst attention. How do I train them to work together? My approach: as primarily a heart player I must realize the mind body and heart are all individual muscles of the analyst and first I have to work on evening out the muscles of the analyst before trying to get the doer to trust the analyst.
sick vid rishi
Seeing the last bit, all the Johns came flowing through my head.
I just get blazed and it combines the analyst doer combo really well.
I'm so glad I stuck around to see the secret part 3 to this video 5 starts would recommend
thanks ive been looking for a video essay on sun tzu for a while now
Recently playing rainbow 6 i started to apply a similar concept but with not only the analyst and doer, but also the critic and the captain
You're a legend for throwing in the Custom Robo tracks
Interestingly, I always thought that the analyst was a mind player, the
doer was a heart player, and that body play was its own third category involving creating a flow chart that includes total character knowledge, tech, and option availability in any given scenario. Given that mix up, I developed my own way of thinking wherein your goal is to combine the benefits of both my heart and mind concepts because in psychology, flow state is defined as a perfect harmony between thought and action. I believe that conscious thought is like ram and unconscious thought is like flash memory, so to delegate as much information to the unconscious as possible is the best way to make it readily available for the "doer" the heart to access and use mid match. The way that this can be achieved is by setting up an inner mechanism to create "flags" about what the opponent does in any given scenario. These flags are like primers so that the next time they show up, the flag is raised and one does not need to consciously think through what has happened, but react to the flag and put out an option. How do I think about this process mid match. I divide it into 3 phases. First is awareness, which implies an unconscious focus and attention to the opponent, paired with inner patience and reservation not to overcommit to any option but to take in information. Awareness should be the foundation behind an entire match. The next phase is Anticipation, which implies having the flags set up as primers and being prepared to mentally react to them when they are raised again. The benefit to anticipation is it also does not rely on conscious slow thought but uses the advantages that come with reaction speed. The last phase is action/reaction/doing. whatever you like to call it. And the benefit of having these steps in place are that one has constant internal preparation and so when a flag is raised, you can already have a mentally preprepared response that optimally takes advantage of the situation. While in flow state, this mechanism should work flawlessly within the personal flowchart and tools one has with their level of tech skill and character/game knowledge, but if one errs toward mind or toward body, each side has its drawbacks. My one question is where to fit conditioning into this model, and so far I think i just have it relegated to what the conscious mind works on during the game when playing optimally but idk. Lmk if you happen to read this what your thoughts are
Great video man!
Damn these videos are good
you make great videos and your marth is sick thanks for being you
GJ on the video!
This framework only becomes more interesting when you realize it applies to other things too. For example, in writing music I can identify times where mind (theory) body (common practices, instrumentation) and heart (feeling out melodic lines and grooves) interact and either helped or held the others back.
One of the fascinating things about philosophy is how many repeating patterns it reveals throughout our reality.
He's a Melee Sith, what a wonderfully poignant analogy about trying to find an advantage in every single situation.
does the inner complainer also have a body, mind and heart?
well they at least have a mouth to whine with
No, they're empty
3 hearts and each one is pissed about something different.
SECRET PART 3 WAS HYPE
this channel is so great
Great video Rishi!
Though, for the quiz at the start, my choice would have been JC Grab. I'm not even sure if it would have worked at that range.
this reminds me a lot of a core-a gaming video, is that the main inspiration here? really cool if so
Digging the Custom Robo music though
In smash, we call it the computer, the cucumber, and the white hot fire
Love the custom Robo music :)
I'm so glad I stayed until the end lmao
Great video bro
God damn Rishi this was some great shit.
The Last part got me XD i just love the truth about it
In my experience theres like a consistent demon that haunts all these three player types.
Heart Based players play the player MU rather than the character MU, so when they think they're getting better by playing their friends only to findout they still lose to tourney opponents because they don't have the habits of their friends, they have to force themselves to play a wider pool of ppl to keep getting better.
Mind based players are often well balanced and most consistent of the bunch but they seem to have trouble really specializing in their play like the other 2. This leads to trouble finding out what their strong suit might be on some days.
Body players are extremely disciplined and can literally get all their quality practice off few training partners because they p much STRICTLY PLAY the character MU point for point rather than the player. They don't pick on habits like the heart based player, but this also opens up body based players to inconsistencies and just having spontaneous off days where their hands just aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. I know this feeling as I identify with this type and its infuriating...
this is fire
Wtf, that sith/jedi comment at the end is so funny to me.
I liked the part at the end where Thanos appears and puts on the glove
thank you for making this
The way I look at this is that you have to be able to notice important information during a match, and that analysing replays is how you can teach yourself how to notice that important information. The mind/heart/body categories are just different lenses you can look through when assessing a situation.
I think this actually helps me quite a bit in handling my shortcomings because I have straightforward ideas and I can break down specific situations.
However, what I lack is the ability to act on predictions and think actively as I let my autopilot do all the work. But at the same time, I also have an opposite issue where if I think too much I end up in worse situations.
I think what I should do to improve is to try and act on predictions a bit while trying to become an active thinker. Thanks Rishi!
What I do, personally, is I start by just taking bits and pieces of information from my opponent. What their favorite move in neutral in, what their favorite edge guarding strategy is, and most importantly keeping a tally of their tech rolls. You have no idea how many stocks I've taken by fsmashing their tech in place, because they get conditioned into thinking it's the best option because I rely on tech chasing for a lot of my punishes (PM Roy btw).
Bob Jones I play ultimate (judge me lol) but I still think the processes and terminology still apply.
love the ending
the end killed me