Wrong about Mars again!! Two new discoveries could threaten Elon Musk's colony!
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- čas přidán 25. 10. 2023
- Recent discoveries on Mars reveal just how wrong we were about the Red Planet! Not only is life likely, it's also likely to be widespread. And earthquakes are also surprisingly common on a planet that was supposed to be geologically dead! What does this mean for Elon Musk's colony?
#mars #spacex #nasa
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It’s always baffled me that we are so positive life can’t exist on mars when we’ve literally barely tried to look for it
And one of the times we looked it came up as a positive, but that didn't count because... reasons.
Plus we don’t really have a clue what the actual parameters for life are ..
There are terrestrial entities that can survive the void, and conditions harsher than Martian deserts, Like in all of reality ? We know nothing.
what exactly is life? how do we know life if we see it? we could think oh thats a rock, bu it could be live, we might not recognise life as life
They actually had positive proof of life and ignored it. My guess they won't admit life exists because of religion. Even to the point they might try to exterminate it in order not to be proved wrong.
Angry Astronaut, I have been watching you for around a year or so, but not really knowing why (since there are several space channels). I have just figured it out, you are entertaining, and you easily keep my attention. I know this sounds simple, Thank you.
Same here, sort of
Also, he does more for 'the little guys' than most if not all of the other big channels. And they recognise it.
I agree with you and also like the fact that AA does not over-focus on SpaceX, interesting as they are.
I like the angst.
The fact it's colder then dry ice tells me life is not on the surface any more if at all..
Ancient cataclysm. They are now underground, on other planets or moons and on ships in our solar system and beyond.
That's kind of a good thing for life since cold is much more survivable than heat, and it gets nearly as cold in Antarctica but there's still microbes there. Digging a ways into the surface or bedrock on either planet you can find nearly the same conditions, and Earth had tons of life down several miles from te surface. The frost line under the surface of Mars should be close to the surface around the equator, or at active volcanos.
There's microbes and even arthropods that live in slightly melting snow, and low pressure is really only dangerous when you're going to get the bends or need something like lots of gaseous oxygen, we currently live in a slight vacuum compared to early Earth or the bottom of the ocean, and there's enough pressure for briney water to exist at the surface. Spores or dormant microbes could hold on just under the surface and wake up when the liquid water comes back.
Mars was habitable and covered in liquid water first by a few million years since it cooled earlier than Earth and Venus. Either life did or didn't live there ever, but if it did then some of it is probably still kicking under the surface, and it either is related to earth life or not, and either has big implications on how life did or could develop in the rest of the universe.
Wadsleyite
Pronounced "wod-slee-ite" A mineral named after Arthur David Wadsley (1918-1969) whose last name is also the name of a town in Yorkshire, England.
A level 4.7 earthquake is barely noticeable when it occurs on Earth, so doesn't seem like a big worry...
I think the problem is how large and fast a landslide can be due to the height of the cliffs and the low atmospheric density rather than the intensity of the quake itself.
Some issues; 1) The Earth has a combination solid/liquid core; 2) Mars Quakes do not have the level of impact you suggest - there are landslides, but minimal in comparison total potential landslide sites; 3) If there is any life, it is very unlikely that it would be a threat to Earth life - not zero, but 6 orders of magnitude against...99.999999% against. Good video!
I always thought Earth's core was liquid like thick caramel, thick, viscous and gooey.
We need to look for fossils and we need to look in caves that offer radiation protection
Imagine the United States threw money at this instead of perpetual wars
No real need to look for fossils. There is so much wreckage on the surface fossils will just be a bonus. NASA discovered numerous relics/artifacts at the Pathfinder site in 1997. There were numerous structures at the top of the
“Twin Peaks”. My memory is that NASA itself did not publish this… I think it was a NASA affiliate that published a picture of the Twin Peaks with the top edge trimmed off and backfilled with fake sky. Hard to believe. Why even publish a doctored photo like that when it was so obvious compared to the originals? I was so astonished at the primary relic I spotted that I eventually wrote a 50-page book about the Pathfinder site. I will not promote it on Jordan’s channel.
Indeed. Only need a few feet of ground to stop essentially all radiation hazard, so ANY cave will do.
Tangent: One need not go far underground to be immune from earthquakes direct effects, can't even feel a big one, may just hear some 'clicks'. Not that I suspect Marsquakes would be an issue anyway.
@@kmfb9921
Space exploration isn’t profitable
Killing people with advanced weaponry though ? 📈
I wonder if they a have any chances of finding aliens instead of bacteria?
Just found you a few days and, I have to say, you are one of the best science communicators on CZcams. I like how you present your info in language anybody can understand.
People who don't speak English won't understand it
Most opinionated person also
Wonderful episode! Thanks for the effort you put in.
It's a big stretch to say Mars has lots more life when we haven't found a single thing yet.
How many samples have we taken to Earth from Mars to examine thoroughly?
@@incomingincoming1133 Mars rocks make it to Earth and one had something that one scientist's confirmation bias said was life. Problem was it was too small and could also be made by geologic processes.
Earth rocks obviously make it to Mars and could definitely carry microscopic life to Mars. Only way to tell is a DNA test, if it's Terran DNA it isn't Martian unless you believe the biophysicists who think DNA cannot be built any other way.
@@incomingincoming1133I’m foaming at the mouth for sample return 😶🌫️
@@incomingincoming1133 ZERO!
If life is verified to exist on Mars at some point, the threat to colonization will come from the need to thoroughly study this life first. There will be pressure on governments to prevent human colonization of Mars to avoid widespread contamination of the surface in order to allow genuine study of indigenous life on Mars.
Governments will not care. Sure, they are going to pretend to do so with carefull study of the life. But then I'll guarante that they will say that colonization is a minimal to no risk...
We are going to be environmentally isolated from the mars environment
@@Bryan-Hensley But how much of our air, water and biological refuse will leak into the local environment?
The surface is not hospitable to our life and mars is big there will be plenty of time to experiment with martian life before we make it extinct
@@johnassal5838 would it make a difference? We would know what we brought biologically and chemically. The rovers have already tested for many of the "contaminants" we'd be bringing.
Congrats on your over 100K subscribers. I've seen you work very hard for this!
Well since we know that those valley's are one of best bets, lets just do as they do in the mountain and hill towns in the US that experience a lot of land slides. Make retention nets, walls and barriers. Mix a hardening agent with the Martian soil and incase the slope face to make it a solid structure and when we build our habitats build them into the slope face so that we can drive anchors into the rock face for added support.
That's a really stupid idea.
Remember those Viking experiments that Jordan loves to bring about and criticise the community for not accepting the results?
Same problem.
Even here on Earth the geologic survey of a region can take years, you just can't take the Hoover damn study and slap it at Niagara, Iguaçu or 3 Gorge and expect it would work. The mechanic engineering might be the same, but science is specific for each and every region.
@@BBBrasil There’s no such thing as a stupid idea, just stupid people! But do You know what’s a stupid idea??? No Idea! You criticize without adding anything tangible to the conversation! At that point you could’ve kept your comment to yourself!
Carrying said mixing agents and water to mars and the unknown amount that would be needed plus mixer and shovels hoses and don't forget doing all this type of work in a space suit...
That be alot of hard work and all that extra oxygen use while doing all this hard work doesn't fair well for practically and amount of manpower will be needed focusing on keeping themselves alive...
@@sussalicoussuspect8498 I’m sure this work can be done by robot, it wouldn’t take any man power from the surface to prep the site.
This channel is highly entertaining and all the better for not over-focusing on one particular subject or launch provider.
Absolutely love your videos! Noticed the camera cuts you’re doing now. Nice! ❤
Very well done. This was an extraordinary number of facts within a short time and very well presented. Thank you.
Old Mars being a “planet of rivers” gave me chills ngl
This is why we need to first put a spaceport or a space station, either next to or at Phobos or Demos. This way, will give us an anchor in point in which to send down more rovers to test for all these issues, and eventually put proper facilities in place prior to us arriving en mass on the planet. Having facilities on the moons will provide us the means to resupply Mars outpost by using recylers and other heavy tonnage then use landers for entry on Mars.
recyclers are stupid. even more expensive than just going to Mars.
Fascinating, thanks for presenting that in such watchable way.
I will guess that safe lava tubes will be found. Big ones that can hold a whole city. They could be sealed off and pressurized. People could seemingly go outside and have parks and stadiums. Some day…
Great presentation. Very well put together.
Thanks very much. :)
Always informative Jordan 😊 ThanX TC
Excellent video! Loving the new hairdo BTW.
Thanks!!
Nice job thanks for sharing ❤
Thanks for reporting on this. Very interesting.
This was a good one, Angry!
Thank you Mr AA , another great episode 👏🏻
I really enjoyed this
Well done
Stuart in Ireland ☘️
It's insane that Viking experiments for life were positive multiple times. And that i didn't hear about it til I explored the depths of crazy sites on the internet.
great reporting!
Life finds a way.
I agree with everything you said. Caution is required to go there but everyone seems to want to be the first. The first are often the most ill prepared and the first casualties.
Your interview with Gilbert Levin was a real catch. You do good work and this interview may become an important testament in future should life be confirmed (again!). With a few tweaks a quarter million subs is in reach I bet, and if you get there a half million or more might be then on the horizon too.
Maybe we could set up a series of habitats at the base of these hills in the valleys and then trigger a landslide on purpose to bury them that gets rid of all the loose rock, and it protects us from the u v radiation. It sounds like we need to embrace this problem And use it to our advantage.
Great Mars bulletin ! 💪
Good info about Marsquakes. It does make colonization more complex.
Jordan-brilliant research!!!!! Well done!!!
I liked this episode as well! Live close to the warm equator, deep in Mariner Valley where morning fog is often seen
Great episode!
I used to speak some Serbo-Croatian, as I had friends in Yugoslavia when it was still Yugoslavia. A little help with pronouncing the Croatian name, Mohorovičić . It's MOH-hə-ROH-vih-chitch. It's a beast, for sure, and a real mouthful when combined with "discontinuity'; Which is why we all say "Moho". Named after seismologist Andrija Mohorovičić, the Moho separates both the oceanic crust and continental crust from the underlying mantle. Fun Fact: Mohorovičić discovered the discontinuity in 1909 when he saw seismograms from shallow-focus earthquakes had two sets of P-waves and S-waves, one set that followed a direct path near the surface and the other refracted by a high-velocity medium.
why is every picture from mars is look like its taking in a bowl surrounded by hills
@markvanalstyne8253 Rovers don't do well climbing up slopes so they tend to be dropped on the flat or in a 'bowl' if they are looking for something in particular such as a water basin
@@richardh8082 Also fisheye lenses.
Wide angle lens.
Good report Jordan.
Very difficult to not call them "earth" quakes
I think what is incredible is that we can now try to answer these questions by sending our robotic heralds to these other worlds. Its just a realy short time in history that we have had this capability. However we must not be impatient to try to send people to live in these inhospitable places too soon. I would think it will be quite a few centuries before that happens.
you don't have to send them to LIVE there. Just send them to stay for a while. Dangerous and costly, sure. To this point, I keep in mind that we send our volunteers into burning buildings, too. Everybody knows that some of those brave people sometimes die. There goes the cost of their training, gear, etc. And, most tragically, their lives end. Even with those losses, it is worth it for our species. It won't be different with Mars. And I don't think it should be different. As soon as our technology is safe-ish enough, our governments will give the green light and many many thousands will volunteer.
and, of course, the green light comes way sooner when there is a race for space. risks may be (kinda) damned! See the U.S. vs U.S.S.R. race back then.
I'm of the Kim Stanley Robinson method of colonizing Mars - using natural cliff faces and wide vertical crevices to serve as the first walls of a settlement building. His Mars trilogy has all kinds of interesting ideas for colonizing Mars.
Also their is probably a lot of water on Mars, like frozen lakes and oceans. The dust storms have just covered them. It could be frozen only on the top and have liquid oceans underneath possibly. There could even be geothermal vents like here on earth still active. Not sure if any of that is true but we should definitely get to checking.
rather unlikely, but not impossible.
Awesome as always, Angry
Obviously, we will need habitats on Mars to survive. These habitats would need to be covered with Martian soil at about 3 ft. deep. The habitats would have to be a class 5 containment condition and protocals.
Make sure you bring plenty of radiators for heat dispersal!
Regolith is quite an insulator! :)
We don't want boiled colonist for dinner.....
We could build domes in the canyons that are designed to then be buried under a triggered landslide. Whole complexes could be set up this way and then covered.
Fascinating. I was a bit worried that there might be some element of click-baiting in the title but having watched the video my concerns were unfounded. These findings, particularly the earthquakes and accompanying landslides (if verified but the evidence to date looks strong), are indeed a big concern for large-scale colonisation. We so need to get boots on the ground - small scale longer-term crewed exploration/science missions with a wide range of scientific/analysis equipment available on the surface - to learn a lot more about what's going on. I know that Elon/SpaceX is going as fast as possible but - Go Starship!
The Angry Astronaut does not do click-bait. Period.
I.. think I could call myself a fan, even though I don't agree with you on ALL matters. I think your interviews are your best work by far. You talk to people and "small" companies in the background, whos work and acheivements would otherwise go unnoticed, or be forgotten. Your interview with Dr. Levin is a league above the rest still. It's extremely important. It must not be lost. Don't want to teach you to suck eggs, but please make sure it's not lost or deleted. YT channels get hacked, deleted, etc. This interview must survive. All the best with the move to UK. Maybe we could watch a launch from Scotland one time.... I'm just north of English border. So who knows!... Stay angry.
When we start to find fossils on Mars we will learn alot more ..... What organisms have been discovered on mars so far ?
I would have liked to have seen the faces of the Mars planetary scientists when they discovered that the orangey colored dirt on Mars was a life form, a life form that happily produces methane and provides traction for rovers..
The Perchlorates in the Martian soil pretty much ensures that no life can survive. This has been known since the Viking missions.
ok but why are you assuming life on an already uninhabitable world would play by the rules of earth organisms?
Mars hasn’t always been like that though, and it probably took a long process over time to develop that problem, and we already know that here on earth that our atmosphere did not contain as much oxygen at all back then. And guess what oxygen is actually poisonous, we just adapted to breath it. The first life here breathed either methane or something like that. The organisms that could not adapt to breathe oxygen died. So I can definitely see how their could still be life on Mars. It could even be thriving. Also some life on earth lives off of arsenic, and that’s poisonous as hell. So get out of here with your stinkin thinking, I can’t stand it when people can’t think past there nose, I’M ANGRY. Lol
@@xermionthesecond4396 Physics.
@@justinwalker5441It was Carl Sagan's conclusion! So you're smarter than Carl Sagan?
Human life would have issues with the perchlorates ... which is the point.
Thank you.
Interesting. Thanks.
That is completely mind blowing! Life on Mars TODAY????
1 of your best episodes…👍
Supersonic landslides! That sounds like a theme park ride! Pay Me!
We know so little, but are so certain we know everything.
Looking at the athmosperic lapse rate we should build permanent bases at a depth of 15-20 km. That would provide a reasonable athospheric pressure and temperature.
I expect that there was life on Mars, but I'd be gobsmacked if it was native!! :D
Earthquakes could be an issue for future missions, because the safest place on Mars would theoretically be underground or in caves, and the surface entries of those caves could be vulnerable to quake damage.
If quakes are identified as an issue, then we should put seismic monitors on future robot missions.
That way we can identify which areas are prone to quakes before setting up any science bases!
Those science bases can then monitor the quakes for decades before choosing the safest sites for future colonies.
We know that on earth movement of water occurs as much underground as it does on the surface. Although underground reservoirs can be huge they most likely cannot match the volume of surface oceans, nor do the underground rivers operate at the same speed and volume as do the surface rivers but the exploration ignores the underground world and misses the potential of life in the shielded underground oceans.
Thank You
We would certainly want to investigate Martian life robotically before people got there so we could be reasonably sure that the experiments weren't tainted with Earth bacteria.
too late already.
Plenty of Earth rocks already have been to Mars for a billion years and longer and there are extremophiles on Earth that could survive the frozen journey.
We should AT LEAST send a low cost insight-like lander there that has the capabilities of finding and examining life in the Martian soil.
Can’t find a link to your Gilbert interview. Is that in stealth mode?
I personally think Hellas Planitia is the best place to set up a settlement, since it is the deepest place on mars, and so should have the highest atmospheric pressure. Too bad it's near the south pole and not as scenic as Valles Marineris.
There are a multitude of elements on Mars that can be used as shielding. They just need to be mined and processed which could be done before humans even get there or manufactured on the Moon first.
Studying Mars'life if it exists must be done on Mars and not on Earth. It would be too dangerous !
Study of mars life might best be done from a orbiting space station. Sample retrieval and quarantine protocols on the station.
exactly @@danharold3087
Those don't look like rivers they look like electrical arc paths. Probable micro nova damage from the sun. Rivers don't erode lick that.
Problem is that the southern ancient cratered half of Mars shows little evidence of water erosion. Thus, the wet period had to have been very brief.
And then there is the concentrated amount of xenon in the atmosphere. Yet another thing about Mars that makes you wonder.
I still believe we should have some sort of sample return mission from mars before we land humans there. Though the one we have right now is billions of dollars overbudget and probably won’t happen unfortunately, I hope a far cheeper one will materialize soon.
Put boots on the ground ASAP, yeah it'll be hazardous, that's for individuals to decide for themselves. Fully expect we'll find life and, most likely, it'll be related to Earth life but NOT likely to be a threat to humans.
So rivers once flowed on mars so there must also have been weather systems, rain, snow etc and a thicker atmosphere where the temperatures were also higher I presume. Interesting.
for less than a billion years yes, maybe. Mars lost its atmosphere by the end of the heavy bombardment - some 3 billion years ago.
Everything changes so why does anyone want to make definitive statements. Especially about something we know so little about. We have problems understanding earth what makes some think space is simple.
ding ding ding !
Thanks!
Thanks so much for your generous support!!
Let's get to Mars first, and then worry about what problems may exist. I never hear optimism about what could go the right way. It's always bad news.
Marsquake
This only underscores how little we actually know about the planets of this solar system, let alone Earth even.
I'm going to look at this as a bonus. "we need to bury our hab to protect us from radiation. But I can't be bothered with all that digging, that's going to need a lot of equipment. I sure hope we have a marsquake soon, that'll save us weeks worth of work"
The Earth may have a super fluid core and not a solid core.
But more sysmic activity than expected is just one more challenge in the journey.
Once on the ground surveying the local area and assessing the local geology would be done, just like it's done on earth 🌎.
This could be a deal breaker.
How about a deep enough and extensive enough tunnel system in an area without running through seismic faults? Put habitats that are closer to the surface in a a cliff face, and deliberately landslide to act as the shielding, the tunnel system is how you get in, out and about.
Back in the day Mars had civilization.
Nothing you mentioned is a showstopper to colonization. Just a few more extra starships wth specialized equipment.
In the past there were no "rivers" on Mars. They were called "canals".
I believe the bottom of Hellas basin is the place to start up residence. It's by far the lowest place and has the best shielding from radiation. Even a small increase in Martian atmospheric pressure would allow liquid water to exist there.
I also suspect there will be a lot of water frozen in the ground there as well.
The sides of the crater will allow mineral hounding opportunities that otherwise wouldn't be possible without excavating equipment.
Plus, it's far from Noctis Labyrinthus and the seismic issues there.
At 100+ tons per Starship, mining equipment is doable, provided those ships need no crew.
any increase in temperature results in sublimation, not melting. no liquid water would remain.
@@jessepollard7132 "Even a small increase in Martian atmospheric pressure would allow liquid water to exist there. "
We have earthquakes, landslides, floods, bacteria and so forth on and we survive so I don't think they would be insurmountable problems on Mars. Radiation, lack of atmosphere and water are bigger problems.
Whether we consider data from Mars or those from Earth--we find a wealth of evidence for wide dynamic scaling of rate and extent of geological activity. (Past Worldview bias has previously distorted our sensibility on this issue, strongly towards very slow and gradual.) This previous bias has especially distorted sensibility re water-sourced geological product. This defect is finally coming to light re Mars data. (May we finally face up to and acknowledge similar terrestrial data.)
Wouldn't the Marsquakes have agitated any liquid water below the surface & wouldn't our instrumentation there have detected such agitation ?
That's a good question. There have been water flows observed by MRO flowing down these types of cliffs in the last few years. The hypothesis has been that the flows were caused by seasonal temperature changes... but surely the quakes may have played a part.
not likely. little to no liquid water.
@@jessepollard7132 there is plenty of water in aquifers on Mars
Too Much Radiation Due To Lack Of Ozone?!?
Too much radiation due to plain lack of atmospheric mass.
Here on Earth at sea level, we have ten tons of mass in the atmosphere over each square meter.
That absorbs a lot of Solar wind, Cosmic rays, etc. that are all normal components of the radiation hellscape that is outer space. Ultraviolet is the tamest radiation component out there.
On the surface of Mars, there are only 0.17 tons of mass over each square meter. About 100 times less shielding.
I'm curious how marsquakes would affect creating a magnetic field on Mars.
none at all. That requires a liquid core of irons that is rotating faster than the surface.
I'm disappointed but not surprised about NASA's decision not to go somewhere like Mt Olympus or the Valles Marinara places we could readily indentify as features only found on Mars. Instead of someplace that looks like Northern Canada.
Quake "Detected by the Insight Lander just before it went inactive" Like seconds before? If so then falling voltage levels within the Lander could produce erroneous results. Just saying.
Prediction: We will discover water flowed mightily on Mars as recently as the same time the Younger Dryas end on Earth -- when something happened that melted 2,000 ft high glaciers almost overnight. If it were a massive cosmic ray influx from a supernova, under-electrified Mars could have had its water baked away the same time our glaciers melted.
Wonder how one of our rovers would determine such a thing? Or do we need to explore in person?
A massive comet impact on the ice sheet ?
@@craigmackay4909 An interstellar asteroidal type storm would hit all the planets & their moons, so possible.
Gravity is only 1/3 earth on mars. Not quite sure why you think things will be dangerously fast when falling into the canyon. Terminal volcity will be reached quickly and very low, right?
On an unrelated topic, anyone else notice that the whole UAP/UFO/Grusch thing has quietly gone away ?
Rivers means weather patterns.
The sunglasses gives it a “consiracy” kinda vibe
Could this be the time the 'Red Peace' Mars conservation movement of science fiction stories comes to pass?...