How Shipping Destroyed an AU (This is old please stop watching and read the pinned comment)
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Psi's Soundcloud: / flowerfell-thoughts
I'm gonna put some thoughts I didn't think was appropriate to mention in the video here.
This video was the first rant/commentary video I ever wanted to make. 3 years ago was when I first looked into this and I can't believe that it's taken me this long to actually get around to making it.
Sanei, if you're reading this somehow, I really hope that you're doing better now. People will say you should have kept the AU up despite the backlash you faced but I heavily disagree. No one deserves to be put in that sort of abusive relationship with their audience and expecting Sanei to just grit their teeth and bear it is abysmal.
I wish the best for you moving forward and someday, if you're ready, I'd still love to hear what you originally planned for the ending of Flowerfell.
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Patreon: / streamlineworkshop
Commission information: / cq-rankaz6z
Instagram: / streamlineworkshop
Twitch: / streamlineworkshop
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Songs used:
○ • SKIRK - Serenity (Vlog...
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Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.
Please send Psi some love on Soundcloud, link is in the description.
Important edit: This video is old (old to me) and not something I stand by anymore. I can see that there's been a recent resurgence of this video in the algorithm due to the recent Glitchtale video so I feel like it's appropriate to address some things here. A lot of this video is wrong, I was unfamiliar with the topic when I made it and made a lot of mistakes and misinterpretations when I did make the video. Putting aside my personal beliefs regarding pro-shipping or anything related to that topic, no one deserves to get harassed off the internet as the creators of this AU were and that's not something I'm going to debate about. I'll leave a document that can better explain what I got wrong here for anyone who's willing to read it: docs.google.com/document/d/1APAL2hWDVmbM33mtBSOETaFVL_xpDEDs-pKcRqnPFJo/edit
I've always meant for my videos to give a proper voice to people in situations I feel were unfairly treated so this is the least that I can do. There are some things that were brought up a little concerning but that depends on if or not the NSFW mentioned was reposted onto the same main account or a separate, harder to find NSFW one.
Addressing some minor claims in the document, mostly regarding deleting comments. I've never deleted a comment criticizing or pointing out things I may have gotten wrong in my videos. I firmly believe that's a cowardly move to try and hide criticism rather than facing it head on. If a comment has been removed for some reason, it's probably because CZcams has flagged it and it's been moved to reviewed comments. I try to check those every few months to reupload any comments that may have been deleted but there's an obvious delay.
Edit 2: For those of you wondering why I've specified why Flowerfell was not a Frans AU it was taken directly from the soundcloud in the description. The blog was very much centered around Frans however the original work was never centered around the ship.
A few corrections regarding this video: czcams.com/users/postUgwipFzOemFmqQAkVpx4AaABCQ
Edit: Clarifying some wording, when I'm talking about people who think they *are* a character, I'm not talking about people with diagnosed mental issues (like psychosis). I'm referring to people who do not have disorders like such and are just basing their entire life/personality around a character that started as an active choice but turned into an unhealthy, dependent issue that *should be addressed and fixed* because mental illness/issues are NOT healthy and people SHOULD seek help for them.
Also I will not be willy nilly handing out diagnosis of psychosis because that does more harm than good.
Hey, I think flowerfell was a good au, but random are usually what ruins something beautiful. I feel bad for the creator and I hope they can recover or have recovered
Flower
Thank tou stream
I will :c
I do hope they don't get harassed
“Just because people are good friends doesn’t mean they make a good couple”
- Animal Crossing villager dialogue (I think City Folk?)
That's how it was with Joey and Rachel from FRIENDS. They became a couple for a little bit but very quickly realized that they just don't like eachother that way.
As a animal crossing fanatic I can confirm this is from city folk
I don’t even know who that is but W City Folk!
@@spadeiguess city folk is the name of a game in the animal crossing game series
@@Kittyuwu8888 That’s cool!)
Toby: *makes a game that teaches that kindness makes things better and to take considerations of other's feelings*
The toxic fandom:Sure but my headcanons, woe is me
Toby: *makes an amazing game that shows the power and beauty of kindness, creativity, and love. Both romantic and platonic*
Toxic fandom: So anyways, I started shipping
Also fans: let's starts ruining wholesome characters and try to normalize p3d0philia
@@mimi-milkymulti_fandoms6735
Also the fans: BEHOLD my au Swaphexidecimalbase64flipcorkscrewinspacedreamminecraftcallingat9amgoneamongusFell
@@ssneakyandfriends1626 true
@@ssneakyandfriends1626 -inator
Typically, I avoided this AU, because I thought it was Frans. But that was just the fandom twisting it. I wish I had gotten to see the AU for what it was :(
people do that with many of the AUs, unfortunately people twist things until they are unrecognizable and then people hate the original creator for it when they havent even seen the real stuff. A similar situation is Underlust, people have made so much content of Lust sans being a r-pist and p-dophile that no one realizes thats not how that AUs sans acts because those who cringed away at the name alone never bothered to read more into the lore behind that AU (and it was fantastic lore too, very sad), yes he's a flirt but that doesnt mean he's going to f-ck people against their will. they stopped working on the AU for multiple reasons, the backlash they received being one such reason... i wish they would have continued it, i wanted to see how their Au would have ended. As an ace individual i loved the concept that their frisk was Ace also, having an ace individual traversing an oversexualized environment is so relatable to me. (to ease anyones cringing, their frisk is canonically 18 because they werent comfortable having the main character of such an adult themed world being an underaged child)
@@gothic_ace2037 yes! i've known about this but i've never read the lore properly, is there anywhere i could read it?
@@cupidery um lemme see if I can find you a link, it's hard to dig around to find now
@@gothic_ace2037same w underswap, they made the sans in that au a more “UwU soft!!!” Boy, which he wasn’t .
@@lightbulbztr
Yeah, unfortunately forcing the creator away from their AU, just like with Flowerfell. It's so painful to watch and I really despise members of the UTAU fandom that twist things so out of proportion that the creators have to drop their work. I understand that people can have their own headcanons or versions of someone else's work, but to push boundaries like this and ruin the creators is just...disgusting. I feel awful and my love goes out to all the AU creators who have been pushed like this.
Nothing worse than when a fanbase destroys the very thing they “love”.
The fanbase took what sans said when explaining "love" to an insane amount
@@Crisp1Chip that came to mind when reading the comment to it’s sad it came to mind at all
True
I remember that one Frans artist who was given cookies with needles. I never liked Frans but harming a REAL person over a ship with dubiously aged characters, really??
Guess they don't understand the concept of love.
Man when will people know that some are better off platonic??? Not every relationship has to be romantic.
THIS! Tho i appreciate shipping, not everything or everyone has to be shipped.
Had no idea it was a platonic relationship since everytime i see flowerfell theres always frans fanarts of it
@@TinatarantadoNyoko Haha yikes..!
deadass?? I feel like some people really forget that you can have strong platonic bonds with friends
@@solkatyaoi Haha it’s like the mha fandom.
You know, I’m kind of happy we finally realised after six years that the frans was a weird ship tbh. Like how everyone tried so hard to justify it because “the age is up to the player” even if during the whole gameplay everyone refer to frisk as a “kid” a “child”. Hell, even Toby calls them a kid.
Flowerfell was a really good au, it’s terrible to see how the creator got harassed so bad over a ship it wasn’t even supposed to be in the story
I know right?! Ever since deltarune got realized both fandoms got calmer, and that’s why there’s less toxicity in the deltarune fandom, since I guess every fan of undertale learned their lesson already from 2016
@@S0m3B0z0OnTheInternet wait what happened in 2016 again?
@No.1RatedSalesman What didn’t happen-
@@ms.fukawa-hanamura3754 WWII
@@No.1RatedSalesman bold assumption….
I hate Frans but I mostly saw the au as
Frisk: I'm dying
Sans: Son, dying is gay
Same
Frisk must be real fruity due to how many times they died in the origanal game 😳
@@ThePurrpetrator literally
Down is gay
First of all, WHY THE F*CK ARE PEOPLE SHIPPING A GENDERLESS UNDERAGED CHILD WITH A SKELETON WHO IS CLEARLY OVERAGED? And second, I found the game undertale in 2019 and loved the fan comic growthspurt so I wanted to find other comics and I did but found out about the awful ship that should be illegal called Frans in one of them so basically I want every person that supports the ship to die a slow, painful death and forever burn in hell. But some of the comics are short and funny and I like that.
im just disgusted at this point that a fandom who was supposed to be about spreading kindess was this fucking horrible to an au who was the kindeat of them all.
Yeah :T
Sad :(
love the pfp, and yeah, it’s really sad
Sort of reminds me of the steven universe fandom.
Please understand too that 90% of the fandom at that time were really young too but I know there were some older toxic people too
Now let me say one thing. Flowerfell is indeed *NOT A SHIPPING AREA* as Frisk is a literal underage child and Sans is a (Beep)ing ADULT. Flowerfell isn't something for Frans to be *OMG THEY DATING* but rather a Father to Daughter relationship, not flipping LOVERS. Man... *Secret Garden* truly is a God-send when it comes to this AU
Having followed their blog before all of that went down, Frisk was depicted as a person of consenting age (18+). They had a whole page with informations about the characters, so no, Frisk wasn't a child, actually.
In this AU Frisk was not an child, they sure are Canonicaly in Undertale however AU as the name suggests does not follow canon of the game and creates it's own things using characters from popular game changing their minor and major details like age, apperance, the place in the story and what the story is about.
Frisk in this AU was made an adult just clearing the common misconception about this AU.
In 18:37 the audio states that Frisk is a child. There are contradictions based on the comments of Frisk was regarded that way. Which makes it unknown what Frisk’s age in this AU is.
@@rafsandomierz5313please don't be defending this :)
@onyxbasura327 I will bring back my claim that I did and also write a reply (Right here). This was 1 year ago and I'm willing to patch things
Okay firstly, Flowerfell was indeed a Frans AU by Siviosanei. However, there is also one from Leviticus but that was because Leviticus didn't like the ship per se an made they own. The original is indeed from Sivio.
Sivio cancelled it because of *Shippers* who were overly toxic, specifically Frans shippers who went out there way to ship Sans and Frisk while Frisk is still a Minor. While yes, Frisk in this AU is an adult (18+), but the Frans shippers would ship the 2 while Frisk was a Minor. Frans shippers would go out they way to force they own ideals onto Sivio and told Sivio that his own ways were worse than they (The communities) own ways.
Sivio and many others were Attacked by many Frans shippers and Frans haters alike while also other creators receiving the same treatment since Flowerfell was a Cornerstone of the Frans ship.
The overall toxicity of the Frans shipper community and the fact many Frans were legit taking the AU from Sivio and using the AU for they own fanfics.
*Does that correct my mistakes of the past?*
The truth of the matter, is that it was just a fun project. That was literally it, a fun project about a story that has an amazing moral. But the community has done the opposite, and made this project a living hell to work on. I hope the creators are ok, and are able to move on from this. There is a thing called "crunch culture" and I just watched an entire video about it. This AU was a living example of that. To the people who called themselves "fans", but actively pushed the creators to work on the story until they drop dead, you should learn from this..and be mindful of what goes into work. Even if it's something as simple as storytelling, there is a lot that goes behind the scenes.
sounds interesting! do you mind linking the video?
@@chell9951 czcams.com/video/aS3-iSEwNhs/video.html
@@chell9951 even though it is towards gaming, it can still apply here
I somehow doubt that those people, who watched the creator delve into turmoil and still harassed them, would ever learn from that and would actively proclaim that they're in the right and it's the people who the harass who are wrong
@@cinnastag I guess, but we gotta keep in mind that they’re children. If they grow up thinking the same way, then we as a community have already done our job. The rest is up to them to realize that what they’re doing is wrong
I noticed a lot of wholesome content ends up having very disgusting fans, one of the best examples I can give is the difference between the hazbin hotel fan base and the helluva boss fan base, hazbin is about Charlie trying to help wayward souls while helluva boss is about a bunch of imps that kill people for profit, you can see that hazbin fans , despite hazbin being about the redemption of others, act like evil incarnate, while helluva boss fans are more chill, wholesome content attracts more people than content that isn’t wholesome, so their are more likely to be absolutely horrid people than the latter
or the omori fandom. the story is really dark but the fandom is really wholesome and funny too
And the dream fandom it was originally just a fun server for him and his friends to play on but it also had a lot of cool lore but because of the dream stans and all the canceling on Twitter it became a very hated fandom
OH and Genshin vs Honkai fans. Genshin has a lighthearted story that doesn’t really get too dark. The worst thing that happens is about signora dying. Honkai, on the other hand, is a lot darker in tone, with themes of mental illness, grief and self hatred.
Now the fandoms: Genshin is a constantly self destructing piece of garbage that is one of the worst fandoms of 2021. Honkai is really lighthearted as long as you avoid the fetishizes and Otto fans.
@@Eosinophyllis yeah as someone who used to play honkai (deleted for more space) the honkai fandom is so much more chill. i don’t play genshin but some of the fans i’ve seen are just… blegh
Or the MHA fandom which is fairly light in tone has one of the most toxic fandoms while PMMM despite being dark and depression have some of the most chill and wholesome fandoms I’ve seen in a while.
"I just want my brother to be happy again" This hits your right in the heart....
Can we all realize that this happened because a man made a game with 50,000 bucks being a kickstarter
Let's be honest, people forgot that platonic friendship exist.
How the heck did this hit 9 k?
Fr
Platonic relationships are really adorable, definitely underrated :/
Fr tho like platonic friendships are underrated
@@bakedpotato5037 Yeahhh they are but they're SO WHOLESOME
Exactly
And some "fans" wonder why creators left the fandom during that time frame so often... Underswap's creators for good, Underfell's creator for a handful of years, Heaventale for good, Dreamtale's creator on and off through the years cause even now, she receives so many threats and disrespect once she opens her ask box for a time.
Hey, it's almost like people DON'T like being treated like shit just because the "fans" believe they deserve the creations more than the creators themselves for whatever pathetic reason! Just because they think they love it more! Just because they make more fanart than one or two singular creators can! That's almost what a fandom is, a vast collection of people that love the work of one, two, or a group of people much much smaller than their numbers, so OF FUCKING COURSE a FANDOM makes more content than a singular creator can! Doesn't mean they "deserve" it more than the god damn creator does! This is exactly the reason several other creators are terrified of making their stories public, because they don't want to end up like the creators before them.
If you love a work sooooooo much and want more, be the better person. Don't do what the Flowerfell fandom did. Doesn't matter what community you're in. Just. Don't. Do. It. Period.
Thank you so much for making this, Stream. You voiced everything better than I could. Please excuse my salt.
(I agree with this comment but also HI SARCO I DIDNT EXPECT TO SEE U HERE)
@@sophisticatedPJs YOU ARE THE SECOND PERSON HERE TO RUN INTO ME HOW AND WHY THE FUCK-
A-fucking-men
People need to get their heads out of their asses and think for fucking once
I remembered how everyone harassed Sr. Pelo with his undertale series. I don’t get how people can act so entitled
@@sarcosticsarcomere2166 HEHEHE IM SORRY I JUST RANDOMLY CAME ACROSS YOU IN THE COMMENTS AND WAS LIKE "WOAH HEY WAIT A SEC I KNOW THEM"
"I respect Sanei's decision to take it down, but not really because now us fans can claim it as ours and keep it going against their wishes."
The level of my disgust is too strong for mere words.
The entitlement ppl think they have on the internet is truly mind boggling
Aomoment
Yeah
honestly, had no idea that people thought flowerfell was a frans au?
even if sans had said "i love you" that can be totally plutonic (edit: or parental, I think shipping young kids with adults is really gross obviously)
harassment is stupid :/
And even if it was a shipping au Frisk is 16 which is the age of consent in many countries including my own
Frisk canonically is a very small child as for a majority of the game, they are mistaken for Chara who died at a very young age (somewhere before 12) and the game makes it VERY clear that Frisk is a child.
The Flowerfell creators refer to them as a CHILD.
And even if they were the age of consent, it's still pedophillia if Sans dated them. Good day.
@@junkoenoshima2756 as a person who lives in a country with that age of consent, you're missing the main thing, it's legal if both parties are MINORS, sans is an adult so even with your logic it's still illegal. So 💅
Also to note, age gaps matter more the younger you are.
Hypothetically, IF Sans was canonically 18 and IF Frisk was canonically 14 or some shit, yeah, it's just a four year age gap, but get this:
It's still an unhealthy, predatory dynamic. Why? Think of how much more development an 18 year old has compared to a 14 year old.
That is a senior in high school/freshman in college dating an eighth/ninth grader IS NOT an excusable relationship dynamic purely on that basis. It's an unfair power dynamic.
It is absolutely NOT p3doph1l1a, but it is 100% predatory. "Age is just a number" doesn't fly here. "Love is love" doesn't fly here.
Wait till they're both well into their 20s or older, because then, there's less of an unhealthy power dynamic and they're both on equal planes of development.
And before you mention the fucked up "Romeo and Juliet" laws stationed in some states makes it legal for a 14 year old to date an 18 year old, get this as well:
Just because it's legal DOES NOT mean it's moral. It DOES NOT mean it's right in any way, shape, or form. It DOES NOT matter if it's also on the plane of age of consent.
It is not okay, nor will it ever be.
Hope that cleared some things up. Have a good day.
@@sarcosticsarcomere2166 I don't even see the appeal with the Sans x Frisk thing because like. Sans is clearly way older than Frisk and they're just a small child, it's just so weird. Sans is probably not even interested in a relationship (that's what it seems like to me anyway). Not to mention the fact that Sans is literally a SKELETON-
Also hi Sarco lol
Flowerfell was the only AU I liked. It didn’t feel weird, it felt pure and not sexual. It felt , good? It was good. People attacked it instead of just ignoring, and it wasn’t even problematic. It was so bittersweet and beautiful.
I agreed. When I discovered Flowerfell, I actually loved the AU. Not because of the 'frans' that the community shows, it doesn't felt like the others, not weird. However, I stood away from the fanbase.
Flowerfell was my first introduction to undertale and I still think it's one of the best AUs.
I still don't understand how in a lot of minds the only plausible relationship is the romantic kind, the story imo works much better with a friendship.
16:29 when she started crying I almost cried… this hit far too close to home for me. I just hope the creator of Flowerfell is in a better place then when they were
Same 😢
Nah they're a piece of shit for that take
I’m disgusted at the fandom at this point. I’ve always loved Flowerfell, and it’s not a long shot to say it’s inspired me in many ways. For an AU all about kindness, the fandom sure fucked things up. For any “fans” reading this, I hope you’re happy, because this is what happens when you do stupid shit like this.
I've never read/heard of Flowerfell until today, but I hope that, for you, reading the story was a good experience, like any story should be.
I'm surprised the fandom's still relevant
@@monke.5450 Deltarune Chapter 2. That's why.
@@odietejada-turmeric9736 before that undertale was still alive.
@@dixieconish_ Yeah I know. Via AU's and fanworks and fankids and OC's and international fangames.
Its disgusting when a wholesome friendship or act of kindness is interpreted as shipping
That's undertale Fandom for you
That’s people sexualizing ‘being treated as a human’ for you
shipping is the desire to see two character together. they didn't interpret it as "shipping", they wanted them to be a couple.
Someone else already said this, but knowing Flowerfell was never suposed to be a Frans AU actually makes me want to read it now. It's sad how a little misconception can make you want to avoid something that you could have enjoyed so much at all costs. I hope the creators can reconciliate and find peace one day.
Literally, almost, if not all, fandoms get ruined. I wish people could just respect the creator and the people who worked hard on it.
and i hate that if a lot of fans of something are toxic, if you're actually a good person who's a fan of it, people still hate on you. as a fan of a lot of stuff with hated communities, i know that a bit too well
Toxic people: sorry we don't do that here
@@burnttoast3925 I agree. This is why I try to stay in small fandoms that many people don’t know about. There are less toxic people in those fandoms and there’s more kindness in those fandoms.
Not tryna spam or something but the lo-fi fandom is legit the most healthy and wholesome community.
That community legit helped me to not commit "trying to send myself to heaven".
The most "toxic" things you can find are one or two spammers.
@@call_Arapy Wow. I’ma join
the au: *about showing kindness towards another being, whether their human or not*
fandom: OMG FRANS AU
Tbh l never saw them a couple in this AU. I see them more like a family..
@@MettatonLover same
@@MettatonLover who needs a frans au when you can have an au where sans just loves frisk platonically
@@Im_doing_fine_thank_you yeah
Even tho like 70% of the undertale fandom ships Frans, the ship always rubbed me the wrong way. Frisk is canonically a child, there’s no adult version of them in canon. And sans is presented as this mature adult figure for frisk, almost like family. To see everyone shipping this, from the talented artists to comic dub channels, really disappointed me. Oh, and don’t get me started how people “age up” frisk to make the ship seem not creepy. Aging up really doesn’t do anything
You can really hear the pain in Psi(?)'s voice. It sucks that Sani had to go through all this because of some shipping shit
Woah, I didn't know Flowerfell was ACTUALLY A NON-FRANS AU??? This show how fucked their community was, I imagine the many people who avoided it too because of the ship fanatics who were using it.
I never liked Frans in my life, in fact, I hate it! But I loved the concept of Flowerfell and having the ship there was so annoying and uncomfortable.. I hope they can recover from all of this shit because I can't imagine how shitty it must be to create something and having the fandom destroying it for the rest... Thank you for this video! I'm sad about hating this AU because of the fans..
Me neither! Because of all the fanart and raging fanbase I always assumed Flowerfell was a Frans AU. I do not like Frans as a ship as I think it is highly inappropriate to not only age up a child character to couple with an adult, as well as intentionally misgender Frisk.
Same...
@@Disbelief_ Frisk doesn't have a gender it all depends on the player if the player identify as a female then frisk is female if The player is male Then it'd be A male Or so on I think is the same with age idk if it's true someone said that the creator of undertale said something like that
@@potato1556 yea thats what i mean you get to decide there age and gender and i am a male but i think as frisk as female because frisk isnt suppost to be you frisk is there own person but The Player aka us controls them
@@Disbelief_ Rest in pizza for people who don't know what to call themselves
This is so much more emotional than I was aware off, it's honestly so sad that a fandom and its rabid fanbase could cause this much distress to people that only wished to show off their creative minds and ideas. I'm utterly disgusted that this information isn't well known about in the undertale community, it deserves the respect its been neglected to and my wishes go out to all thoes affected by this horrible harassment.
I hope people learn from this as I'd be devastated if anything came close to this ever again.
Please be kind to others their lives might already be hard enough, they don't need your issues on top of it.
Great video Stream, thankyou for sharing light on this information
💗🦥💗
Pat's*
I've given up on people at this point I try not to pay attention to it cause I get mad about it but I'm glad I've seen some comments like this one, it gives just a little bit of hope that people have a heart to care but unfortunately some just don't
In My Opinion , The Ships Ruined The Undertale Fandom.
I dislike Papyton and Soriel specifically, I kinda see the skeleton brothers as either ace or aro.
We don't really get that much good representation in media.
@@kingnightmarevinI feel like there ace because yknow they're skeletons they dont have any organs but I know that sans has a thing for toriel
I didn’t understand the papyton one because papyrus and mettaton don’t even interact in the game from what I remember
@@dietben9309 Basically why Papyton exists because in the game, Papyrus talks about Mettaton being his "Super model crush" and he was talking about how gorgeous he was or something like that. I find the ship pretty cute and yes it is confirmed that papyrus is possibly Demisexual/Asexual. When he takes you out on a "Date" he kinda overthinks the whole thing and only wishes to be friends and forget this all happened with you after the "date" which makes hella sense.
@@mercy_skele_foxI always thought that the fandom just ran out of ships.
Friendly reminder : headcanons,kins and theories are all vaild and ok. BUT don't force your headcanons or your takes on characters on to other ppl. Not everyone sees a certain character as the way YOU do. We all have different takes and headcanons on characters, it's honestly gross that people will harrass others for no sharing the same headcanons as them.
Thank you I really needed this❤️and yes it is very disgusting that people do this.
Nice pfp
Danganronpa fandom, take notes from this.
@@MidnightCapricorn2696 ikr
The only good comment i can find in here.
Most people in the comments seem pissed at the whole frans thingie when that isnt the problem. The problem is trying to get your own headcannon into other people even when you know they clearly dont want to.
I never knew the true story of why the AU got shut down. The fan base owes the creator a huge apology. Thank you for bringing this to light.
When psi started crying, i felt hurt with them. I felt so bad about them being upset over a story and their friend that they held dear. This is heart breaking
I was one of the people who loved Frans FlowerFell. I was 11-12 at the time. I genuinely thought they were both consenting adults. I'm heartbroken to find out that Frisk was a child because I had been led to believe that this child, probably no older than I was, is being shipped with an adult. I want to offer up my apologies to the creators here now that I am 16 and now that I know far, far, better. I'm sorry for continuing this cruel mis recognition of Flowerfell back when I was ignorant.
Yeah no joke I just found out that flowerfell was never a Fran’s AU because of this video, and I’m happy I found out.
same☹️
When I was a kid... thought Sans and frisk were Young adults ;-;
Honestly I’ve never been hugely into this but I actually did think that it was a ship AU since that’s usually what I see fanart of what I didn’t rlly know what to think besides “that’s kinda weird but y’all do you??” Until this video and scrolling through the comments I realized that people were shipping a child with an adult skeleton creature which is rlly damn weird so uh- yeah let’s like- not- please- ick
I shipped it when i was 9 since i was naïve and was exposed to the toxic part of the community since i had no parental supervisions in the internet, but now that i had gone through a lot of experience in life and more mature than other 13 yrs old my age. I am disgusted, i had absolutely no idea either and now that i do, I try to justify how frisk is a literal child because i didn't want others to do what i did. I deeply regretted shipping them. Luckily, i only watched the ship and never got involved in these kinds of trouble.
Isn’t it ironic that undertale is about kindness yet the fandom is the opposite? wont let you have an opinion
I hope everyone here is getting better and recovering, stay strong
It’s not only about kindness, it’s about choices.
This comments section is full of people who sympathize with the creators, though, which makes me happy
@@TinatarantadoNyoko It's about shaming you for choosing another way to beat the game.
@@JustDeichan In a way the situation is just like Undertale. The player("fans") chooses violence thinking there won't be consequences until the game(creator/Au) literally becomes tainted(Scared/Angry/Horrified) by their("fans") actions and no matter how nice things get the genocide(consequences of "fans") will forever change the narrative(genocide pacifist ending) so the creator leaves for their own health and sanity either abandoning their Au to the "fans" or only working on it part time with little to no asks because of the negativity. I make my own works, but I never share them because all it takes is 1 ahole out of 100 to ruin a persons day/life.
Yeah I ship Frans because all the comics I read portrayed them as adults and yet some toxic lil shits still made the thing toxic ,HOW????? I DON'T EVEN KNOW if you don't ship Frans that's fine if you do that's cool too however you do not have the right to harase the creator over your ideals the only person in titled to the story is the creator
Why cant we have a Daughter-Father like relationship......not everything has be a shipping deal 😔
It’s weird, flowerfell shows both the best and worst parts of the Undertale fandom
A yin and yang
@GxDLY 007 [The Necrophobic] nah not really.
Yeah
This is horrible, I believe that Sans was a parental figure of Frisk especially due to their HUGE AGE DIFFERENCE.
Not to mention, they literally stole their work and edited it to make their ship canon while ruining the creators hard work. This disgusts me honestly, pushing someone so far to their breaking point.
Who stole who work?
@Kataveon Evans
Dude just watch the video
@@Nooop900 I did and I didn't heard that part
@@kataveonevans6224 here 2:55 pretty sure there is another time where she says ppl copying the art and making frans out of it but too lazy to search for it
It is sad because I saw that paternal relationship as a cool take but unfortunately that story can’t be properly told now
Given what FlowerFell was originally supposed to be, it’s sad to see it be known as the “Frans AU” it had the potential to be a tragically beautiful AU with an overall wonderful message to be kind, but the internet just had to force Frans on it and ruin it
(Sorry if that sounded really corny, I’m just speaking my mind)
Edit: What happened to FlowerFell is kinda similar with what’s happening in the Hazbin Hotel fandom; people forcing head cannons and ships despite already cannon things. Main example would be RadioDust (Angel Dust x Alastor) Vivzie has confirmed Alastor to be Asexual yet people are forcing the ship down others throats. Headcannons like Alastor being a goof who’s constantly cracking dad jokes (even though he’s been shown to be a diabolical manipulative monster who cracks a joke every now and then)are also being forced everywhere
Tbh, I assumed most of the people shipping these are just kids themselves, not realising why such a dynamic could be unhealthy and wrong. They're just young, immature and entitled...
This situation and what you’re describing from Hazbin is making me worried about Deltarune. Mostly cuz Gaster was meant as a specific character from Deltarune who appeared lore wise within Undertale as a secret. Cuz of this Easter egg, Gaster took on a life of his own away from Toby himself cuz of the fanbase. An insane amount of headcanons, etc. I’m sure a lot of fans wouldn’t care if Gaster ended up different than what fans made up, but I worry the a vocal and hateful group of fans will get angry if their specific HCs aren’t canonized and if Gaster ended up different than what they intended.
@@ma.2089
Let's just hope the fandom will be kind. (Though, tbh I don't trust it anymore. I've lost faith in it.)
If Alastor is aro-ace, it's not really respectful to ship him with anyone, but just a note, ace people can have romantic relationships. They can even do the act, but they don't feel the attraction to somebidy that way, they just enjoy the feeling in that case and is in love with the person they're doing it with. I don't know if Viv has stated that Alastor is aro as well as ace, but I just wanted to say that. If somebody only knows that he is ace, it could be innocent that he's shipped with someone, like Angel Dust. I haven't seen it forced onto others. And Alastor making dad jokes? It's just a parody among the animation / voice acting team that did streams, it's not meant to be a headcanon.
@@iclynnx yeah I know ace people can be romantically attracted to people (I’m ace myself), I’m just saying it wouldn’t make much sense to ship Alastor with Angel because Angel’s a sex worker
btw kinning does NOT mean you believe you are that character, that would be called a delusional attachment, with those only with psychosis can experience
Yes it does
Look I mean, there’s one side who’s actually sane and there’s another that’s insane I’ve been in both sides (though didn’t Kin anyone) but idk how to explain it, it’s like the weird side believes they are that character, believing they are somehow connected or was that character in a past life and the normal side is just normal lol
Edit: yeah don’t listen to me idfk what I’m talking about tbh this is just my personal experience and opinion ig
The definiton has changed over time. At first it was that toxic definition you're describing. Now it's shifted to something more tame for most people.
@scrapbehindtesco maybe toxic was the wrong word. I do apologise.
@scrapbehindtesco It may not be bad for others but having a DA could have a bad effect on the person in question if it gets bad enough, I've sadly seen many individuals go down this dark route hyperfixating more and more on that fact they are that certain character then their well being or even going to disastrous lengths to prove they are the character in question. My friend recently went down this path and he had loads of mental issues due to him insisting he was a certain character, and even at the sight of someone who apparently "kinned him" he broke down, luckily he got help and he is no longer having these problems. But some people aren't that lucky and i always get nervous about a person with a DA.
@@telepathboy5782 i agree, i have a friend like that (honestly i don't know if i can consider them as friends anymore, maybe an acquaintance is the better word for this?) and in the vent channel on this discord server i'm in they talked about how they're having a breakdown because someone reality checked them. granted, that person didn't know anything about DAs, but the thing is, they seems to be going downhill ever since they started to learn things like being a kin of something and having DAs compared to when we met around 3 years ago
Honestly, Flowefell became my favorite au at one point. I, being an angsty and edgy 14 year old, fell in love with the concept of the au and fell sans being one of my favorite Sanses, I kind of hyperfixated on the au as a whole. I even gave my main oc the buttercups growing on them for a good while before redesigning them.
It really sucks that the creator was harrassed and treated the way that they were. It really sucks that the undertale fandom became so toxic and intolerant. While it's much more tame now, it's still terrible that the fandom, based upon a game that's focused around kindness and friendship, became so hateful. I wish the internet was a better place.
i've seen audiobook, the song, comics dub and in all of them, Sans acted like a father to frisk
FlowerFell was so beautiful, people putting frans in it basically made it be seen just as Undertale was seen by a lot of people
for the creator of FlowerFell: thank you, i never cried so much but felt so comfort before, this story makes me think of my father, who died two years ago, his situtation kind of reminded me of Frisk's, not as bad or hurtful to him, but as unfair and unexplainible
FlowerFell got what made me fall in love with Undertale: Sometimes kindness is enough.
This is why I never got into shipping personally. People take things waaaay too seriously.
Same here..
Same
Same too
same
I love shipping but honestly? I prefer to stick to smaller corners with friends. We can be silly with one another, and appreciate any art from other people one of us unearths from the dephs of hell (so like, twitter), and share our own headcanons and art. Sometimes we have differing interpretations, that's fine, because we can be mature about it.
Fandoms scare me sometimes if I'm completely honest...
Toby would not be proud of what the Undertale community has done to people.
That's why I left it.
I really hope the creator gets help and the support they need from people after what "fans" and haters have done to them.
I can't say anyword from all of this toxic fans and i also get involved with drama and the relationship on undertale fans that's why i left because more drama more missunderstood and treathning but you know some fans were toxic and some fans don't do there still a hope for the comunity
Oh shit, I found you again.
I can feel people would blame Toby for creating Undertale in the first place because of all the toxicity, but it's just a hunch, I'm sure it's not real.
@@Code_Lune I don’t know much about Toby fox. But from what I heard he seem like a smart person. So I wouldn’t be surprised if Toby just sat down one day and thought before releasing undertale. “ you know this game might get a toxic fandom one day and I’ll will have to deal with it. Hopefully it doesn’t but still though.”
Okay but the current is less toxic. Why because most of those people have either grown up and grew disgusted with that state or left. Also no Frans just flower family.
The audio at the end, hearing the pain in their voice, feeling their tears in my eyes, was heartbreaking. I never knew the story of FlowerFell. I avoided it because of the Frans shippers. But I'm so glad that I know know. Thank you Sanae.
My thoughts are, "If you kin the characters, if they're kind and loving characters, would they want you to harrass and torture the poor soul that wrote this au? Would they want you to be cruel people? YOU are the type of people that the character you 'kin' so dearly despise." Have I gone too far? Maybe. I'm just pointing out the flaws these people that ruined Flowerfell have.
Depending on how far they take the whole kinning idea they'd probably go "YES bc the character is literally me and the writer is depicting me wrong!!!1" :S
Reminder
Kinning ≠ DAs
Kinning is an active choice (being a, let's say papyrus kin, it's something you choose)
Delusional attachments (DAs) are completely involuntary attachment you cannot choose. (DAs are a type of delusion that come with psychosis. Ex someone with a DA to papyrus doesn't choose to have a DA to papyrus.) DAs can also vary in intensity (sometimes a person with DA can seperate themselves from it while other times they cannot). DAs can also be to things like objects, songs, etc.
I know it's a small part of the video but it is still important to understand.
Thank you I kin a few characters but that's because I chose to
as a spiritual otherkin i dont really CHOOSE my fiction kintypes. i feel a spiritual connection as part of a past life. otherkin as a whole has many different reasons that people engage in it such as spiritual or psychological etc. to say its always a choice and if not its a mental illness is slightly insulting...
Kinning CAN be an active choice tbh. It's not always voluntary though, so you have to differentiate between kin-for-fun (which is usually synpath or copinglink, sometimes fictionhearted) otherkin (which is a lot heavier and tends to be involuntary) and D/As. A lot of people using "kin" have watered it down badly so it's also important to understand the fuller scope.
@@thequeenofangst7371 No. No fucking traumagenic system calls their alters, "kins". That's offensive and straight up fucking rude. (Before we get shit, we a traumagenic system. Currently we are unable to get a proper diagnosis but we've done hours of research.)
Introjects are a type of alter who are based off fictional characters (fictives) or real people/animals/or objects (factives). Introjects don't choose their source and not all introjects are like or close to their source.
Some people claim to be "kin systems" or "endogenic systems" or in other words people who don't have childhood trauma before the age range of 7-9, meaning they aren't systems. Please don't listen to a single thing these people say.
Also systems can only occur because of childhood trauma before the ages of 7-9, as that's when the brain starts to merge into one integrated personality/person.
By the way, In flower fell frisk was 18 years of age the creator discussed that, but the fandom kept bashing the creator about it and called them disgusting. They even mentioned it's just about Frisk having flowers overgrow on them every time Sans killed them, soon he realized that they were spreading and he helped her through the underground, no romance involved he felt pitiful for them and wanted to help them escape and live, no matter how many times Frisk died they remained a pacifist even with their blood being shed. The AU was created on drawpile when the creator and close friends were listening to music which gave them ideas and motivation for something beautiful only to have it tarnished over the years by it's sick twisted fans. I feel sorry that the creators work went to waste, it was a AU that actually had potential. :( Now the fandom is just straight up toxic.
Which is why I left Undertale and Deltarune, I cannot fathom what creators go through
Don’t leave the games
I get undertale fandom but the deltarune fandom is pretty cool. They’re a lot less toxic especially during chapter 2. Basically just undertale fans without the excessive shipping and matured more
@@gamercentral2417unfortunately they repeat the same jokes over and over again
@@Soul.Resonant that’s better than a toxic fandom
quite honestly I don't see pity and a selfless change of heart as... romance?
flowerfell used to be one of my favorite aus... and then i just... stopped seeing content for it?
I didn't know what happened at all.
I loved FlowerFell as a kid and I still do! It's just heart-wrenching to see an AU that you loved so dearly crumble up into dust. When I was at my prime Undertale AU phase, FlowerFell was one of the first AU's (along with Underfell and Underswap) that I discovered, and they took a big role in my childhood, a role that my family couldn't have. That's why I loved games and Undertale Au's so much. Since I was a kid back then, I never had access to a website other than youtube, so I never got to see the actual FlowerFell blog. I always really wished I could see it, I was too naive to think that, "oh this fandom is nice, they could never hurt anybody!". I just wanted to see it, since it was deleted, I want to see it more than ever. I can't believe an AU that was such a big part of my childhood had a fanbase... like this. As a kid, I always thought that Frans was okay, I never really looked deep into it. But now that I'm a little older, I realize how gross Frans is, grown-up version or not. Frisk is depicted as a CHILD and Sans is most likely an ADULT. That is straight-up p3d0ph!ilia, and I never noticed this as I went deeper into FlowerFell content. It is just baffling how messed up the fanbase was, and I never noticed! I'm so angry at myself, I could've gotten away from this toxic fanbase and realized "oh this fanbase is a little mean, maybe I should just get away from it". As I looked deeper into the fandom wiki, I was curious to see what other AU's had been canceled, turns out Errortale, with one of the most popular characters in it, was also canceled. I can name many other AU's that was canceled, the majority because of a toxic fanbase (probably). Correct me if I'm wrong.
tl;dr: I really am sad about the fact that one of my favorite AU's was canceled because of a toxic fanbase and I kinda rant about it (sorry Streamline!)
Psi sounds so sad, I wanna hug her. Sona(idk how to spell it) deserved better than the treatment the fandom gave.
I believe it's Sanei.
Ey, Ruby
@@midnighthijinks7387 ey Spike
Tbh, I never saw this as a frans AU, I've always thought of it as an incredibly sad story about losing a friend or some sort of, but it was so heart breaking seem all of this stuff happening with the creators. As an artist, is this type of stuff that makes me insecure about posting my art online or make an AU of my own, I really hope Sanei is doing better.
(A basic analysis?)
¡long comment warning!
Section 1 (story concept): FlowerFell is a game about a sweet nonbinary child falling into a massive cave system and meeting a skeleton who helps them around the massive caverns. Everytime they both die flowers grow on them and slowly maul them one - by - one. Eventually frisk sacrifices themselves to free the underground. This is a story about friendship and NOT romance.
Section 2 (shipping flaws) : The game was about mutual feelings, sans was just trying to help frisk. The AU is not a romantic AU. Frisk is considered a child, toriel would always refers to frisk as a child, frisk may not have a canonical age, yet has the body of a child. (I don't see the reason to have to elaborate on this, the creators also reffered to frisk as a child throughout the game/ fanfic.) sans is an adult. Guess what? That is considered pedophilia. This applies to all frans shippers. Even if you age them up to be an adult, sans would be estimated to be 30+ if frisk were above the age of 18. Having sans be 20 - 30 according to most sources. Frisk is estimated to be around 12+, they still seem to be a minor (at least) now, none of this. Is canonical. But it is the likely ages of these characters. As well as the creator officially said that this was NOT a romance story. Do not ship these character's.
Section 3 (creator backslash + response): after the game exploded in popularity, people became mad at the creator for not making it an official frans AU. The creator obviously did not have the intentions of this being a romance. Still after the creator declined the frans request, people made that type of content. You really shouldn't ship characters even if the creator of the AU only owns a fanmade version of said character. Yes, the creators did make it a fully public AU. But you have no right over the storyline. Even if it is a non canonical ship, the ship is very flawed and is considered illegal under many standards. People still continued to create the content that the creators did not support and did not intend to exist in the first place, not only did the shipping continue, but also the hate towards the creator. This did not stop at that. Eventually the creator discontinued the AU, they had a massive swarm of hate come from that. And so they deleted their accounts. The discontinuation of the AU and account(s) brought swarms of hate. The creator ended up cremating a new account on another platform. No longer making content public (from my understanding). The creator felt sad that the AU could never live up to its new potential, the official creator did not make a full response. The soundcloud audio heard is from someone i presume to be the sibling of the creator, giving the full reasoning behind the deletion of FlowerFell and they're own thought's.
The reason i did not list everything is because i would prefer people actually watch stream's discussion, rather than reading some dumb comment. I did try to list enough detail's to give a decent viewing or understanding of the situation at hand.
Edit: well, as much as i hate the "OmG THaNkS FOr ThE lIkES GuYS!!!1!!" I would like to thank everyone for 99 likes, i never expected so many like's. My long comments have been dying in recent months! Thank you guys~
Thank you for making this comment, I am about to watch the video but this comment will help make the video a bit more clear, I don't understand some of streams videos because of my horrible focus, so I will hopefully be able to understand the video properly
Listening to Sonai’s sibling- Idk what their name is, start crying because they missed out on an opportunity to help their friend made me ALMOST join in… but hearing their description of Frisk and their story….. oof that- that made me tear up. I somewhat wish I knew how to reach Sonai to thank them- to thank them for the inspiring journey of Frisk in FF…. But I respect them too much. Thank you for this video Streamline, I can’t believe how much toxicity went over my head…..
I don’t normally write paragraphs but I feel it’s needed. I feel horrible what the creators have gone through, from people shipping characters that were supposed to have a platonic relationship, to being sent death threats because of what other people did, and refusing to change elements of the story to make other people happy is well within their rights. It was their story to tell of kindness and friendship, loss of a best friend, and treating everyone kindly even when they knew they would die. It was when other people who kinned the characters started forcing their opinions on the creators that everything fell apart, something that would never should have happened, they started shipping Frans because fandoms refuse to believe a platonic relationship exists, it’s such a big problem even today that I don’t think it’d be better to post it now, it’s scary to say but, it would probably be worse. The treatment the creators had to endure backed them into a corner, emotionally and physically, no one deserves what they went through, I wish the best on the creators that they have been able to move on in a healthy way. This was probably all over the place but I needed to get my thoughts out. Thank you for reading
I don't think I can watch this vid all the way through it's just far too depressing for me at this moment.
That's completely understandable! Please take a break from this and watch something that'll make you feel better. I hope things get better soon.
Hearing the audio is heartbreaking I hope they are having a better day than what happened to them and really sorry I am not good with words and I am glad the creator is doing well
As a writer and artist, I can agree with this, I don't want my characters used for selling things unless it's by me, and I wouldn't want my other, more personal characters connected to my main world, that would just be a scummy thing to do to someone's work.
The saying “it’s public so I’m allowed to draw nsfw or treat the creator like trash.” Is just a terrible excuse to terrible behavior
As an opponent of Frans for the most part, finding out this was never intended to be a frans au, makes me interrested in actually reading it now.
Us bestie
Thank god it isn’t. I’d just avoid it if it were.
I've only ever heard of it when it came to it apparently being a Frans AU, so I just kinda accepted it as fact because everyone said it as a fact. Feels pretty wack that it isn't one, but it makes me happy. It always looked kinda cute.
ME THO, ive hated flowerfell for a while but this video has actually made me somewhat interested
I used to be a frans shipper and heard of flowerfell, it was my favorite au. Me being 9 I thought this was a legal ship, being 2 adults just like my parents. But as I got older I learnt it was a child and an adult. But I still liked flowerfell just differently in a none ship way. But I never knew this happened while my 9 year old self was having fantasies about an au that caused so much devastation to its creator. I wanna say sorry ti the creator for my young self, about being apart of it unknowingly.
Aw, don't be so hard on yourself. You were just a kid!
And besides, there's nothing wrong with liking a ship like this when you're still so young. Most people grow out of these things, gain perspective, and realise that a romantic pairing featuring a child and an adult is very wrong indeed. You're fine.
@@pinxelated2799 thank you :)
@@anadaanimebunny4486 I do want to point out what apparently Frisk is 18 in this story. They’re canonically not a child.
You’re not in the wrong for shipping them here. Maybe in general if you’re going off canon age, since kid x adult, but you don’t have to feel bad at all so long as you weren’t attacking the creator.
I used to be the same way. You know you've grown when you look back at something you used to do and cringe.
It still legal tho.@@anadaanimebunny4486
No one shipping canon/underage frisk with sans. people shipping grown up frisk with sans.
Plus in game frisk even dates with papyrus (yes frisk literally has a flirt option in ACT's) lmao but in the end papyrus thinks hes not enough to date with us so becomes friends instead
the cringe part is people keep accusing those frans aus for frisk being underage when frisk literally grown up in these aus.
People ok when they change other characters age in aus but when it comes to frisk and chara they gets angry lmao.
Like Monster Kid also a literal child yet mostly getting grown up in most of aus.
Flowerfell is one of my biggest comfort, but I threw it in the dark, only telling my close friends about it because I knew Undertale AUs get messed up badly. And of course, this one was no exception. I quite literally hate the Undertale "*fandom*" for fucking up AUs and stories to the point of them being unrecognizable and having to be discontinued (Underswap is a big example).
Wait what happened with underswap?
@@rockhistoria2537 that's what I was gonna ask, too...
@@rockhistoria2537 The creator never was able to finish the story because they left the fandom due to the fandom butchering the character of Underswap Sans. The infantalized him to the point of him being unrecognizable to the original idea of US Sans.
@@Komo1680 There might be other reasons too, im not sure but the fandom pretty much ruined the entirety of UnderSwap before it was even fully created.
@@de-voided2263 he actually left the fandom because he was tired of people bothering him 24/7. He was also disgusted that people were making 18+ pictures for his AU. Blueberry is a very small part of it
The audio from Psi is actually heartbreaking to listen to, jesus christ. I myself don’t like Flowerfell, but this(along with MANY MANY other disturbing events in this fandom) is very, very disgusting behavior of the fandom and I hope that things like this doesn’t happen with later fandoms.
That broke my heart, honestly... I felt so bad, even though I wasn't even involved... ;;
It actually disgusts me how many people in the fandom ship frans, literally.
Frisk was confirmed to be a child in the game, and in the Kickstarter. Sans
Was literally confirmed to be an adult. He drinks for gods sake. And he’s also
a retired scientist. But now FlowerFell might be forever ruined! Thanks a lot
fandom! *You ruined another AU.*
The gross thing is people still keep Frans, Fontcest and Sanscest high on their proship lists. All are gross. Frans because Sans is an adult and Frisk is a kid, Fontcest because Sans and Papyrus are brothers and Sanscest because... well it's Sans basically shipped with himself just from a different AU. Can't even scroll any Undertale or Deltarune tags on Tumblr without seeing all three on there.
Sanscest? Idk seems weird but I don't think it should be considered as bad as Frans
The only canon ships with the Skelebros are..
Sans X Ketchup
Papyrus x Mirror
@@reina8284 If aging up is needed to not make it weird, then create a new character for the AU and not use a child. It's not that hard.
You might be done, but it needs to be said: aging up characters who are the same age is fine. It’s when you want to age up a child character to be with an adult character I’d when it’s a problem. If you want to defend frans because you see nothing wrong with aging up a child to be with an adult then that’s on you.
Some sans ships I would honestly love if they were not from the same character. Although some people try to claim that some aus are not technically sans tho (Like how dream and nightmare are only a ball of energy in their canon lore in the body of an underswap sans).
Man I hate when good things get ruined by a fandom it happens too much, Amazing stories get crushed by toxic shippers who want their headcanons forced on characters who the creator has a different idea for them, I wish people would realize that Au’s, Shows and games were made by real people.
I never knew this was the story behind this au. I remeber I was angry back then bc I really loved this AU, its poetry, its meaning and when I heard the author not only turned down their story but forbidden everyone to make art or even cosplay their characters based on flowerfell I thought "screw them, I do what I want". I feel like shit now for even thinking this back then... I'm so sorry to hear Sanie had to endure all of this. I wish them to be able to recover from this bad experience and be able to tell us how they wanted this au to end one day, if they'd feel like
People disappoint me a lot, and I always wonder what goes through those people's head's to do that to a person who they "oh so looked up to" and harass them and trying to force them to do their headcanon's to the creators AU. The fandom is a like a toddler when they get a hold of something and whining to their parent or parental guardian to get them want they want because they feel entitled to.
How are these people in the fandom that heartless to do this to creators who wanted to make a AU! I've been in the fandom for a while and it has inspired me to make Skeleton Oc's of my own(They are their own characters with their own story) and made me see how creative people are when they make these AUs, The AU's itself aren't usually the problem but the Fandom who forces these headcanon's and Ship's to people are what really tips the seesaw when it comes to it and how it changes the feeling's of other's.
From my knowledge, I know that most of the people who have created other AU's have either shut down the AU and Quit or are on and off because of how Toxic the Fandom has grown through the year's. The stuff like this makes me always want to steer away from it cause it's upsetting to see how a fandom can literally *break* a creators creativity and spirit to even enjoy something they've created because of how people try to force headcanon's and Ship's into it.
I really hope the creator(s) are doing better and going on with their lives because of the s--t they have to go through due to the fandom being this Toxic.
Hey, sorry if this is uncalled for, but what you said reminded me of an experience I had where, basically, I was roleplaying with someone using my own AU as the setting and he went completely bonkers and ruined the story in-roleplay to the point that I actually couldn't enjoy it anymore.(I wasn't trying to god-mode the story, and I was okay with him changing it a bit, but it was just... really wack)
It's not nearly as bad as this situation, but I really empathize with it and it's really upsetting that an *entire community* did far worse things to the creations that someone loves :c
@@miriamk5571 It's Okay, I don't think it was uncalled for! And what that person did seemed like a rude move to do to you and your creation, I hope your Okay after it, and I can agree on how an entire fandom can ruin a creators spirit to even enjoy their creation anymore.
I really hope that someday fandom's won't do this to creators but from how the year's have been going, it probably won't =
@@Weeping_Roses... Hopefully it will change, or maybe I don't really want people to see when I make my comic, after all ^^' but I really want to get it out there, so people can see, so I hope it just works out.
I am okay after what that person did, but unfortunately I think I'm going to have to redo the AU so that I can enjoy it again. I wasn't horribly attached to it, but it's still a bummer.
@@miriamk5571 Well I do hope your work gets good attention and doesn't end up like that!
It must be good! :3 and yeah, I can agree with the bummer thing :<
Hopefully your work goes well :D
@@Weeping_Roses... Aww, thank you! I really appreciate it. It's going to be a lot of work, but I don't mind so long as I get to connect with some friendly people
This makes me so pissed off at the fandom. Why would people do this over a au.
Exactly.
I apologize for sounding like I'm excusing or trivializing anything but this all happened in like... 2016 or 2017 right? I've had enough consistent "Problematic" ships and fandoms over the last decade to know that this shit was just (unfortunately) the usual standard affair of the era :(
People like something? REACT WITH EXTREME PREDJUDUCE!
People dislike something? REACT WITH EXTREME PREDJUDICE!
(P.s. Fnf Girlfriend, what is your avatar? It Kinda looks like Mink from Dragon Half!)
@@KichiMiangra * It’s GF from FNF - Kris
Something that also kinda sucks is the fact that people who may have just recently joined the fandom (like me for an instance) think Frans is actually canon and not knowing that it’s just a strong friendship
This is living proof that undertale is still healing from the 2017-8 fandom.
Nature is healing…
As someone who was about 10-11 when i heard Overgrowth(flowerfell fanfic) i kimda based my romantic outlook on frans, and i definitely was one of those frans shippers on amino that genuinely thought it was a frans au and that vivaldi and verdana were canon frans children, now hearing this 5- 6 years later, i realize now how uncomfortable the creators were, and for that i personally apologize, as i thought Overgrowth was canon (i never forced the ship down anyones throat, but i feel as if i should apologize)
It’s sad because I was one of those people who found out Flowerfell as a shipping AU. When I found out what happened I felt really sick and mad at myself. I really hope the creator is doing ok from this even tho it’s been awhile. I’m so glad I’m now in that very small chill part of the Undertale fandom
I'm disappointed and sad at the same time. The 2016 Fandom was beyond toxic as hell. One notable thing from their toxic actions is they actually abused (in at least one account, physically) others over Undertale ships. The Undyrus shipping community at the time was abused off the internet, and at least one person actually got assaulted IRL over Frans (if memory serves), with a pin getting embedded inside their mouth. Compared to that crap, the current fandom is much more tame, with only a few hold-outs of rabid toxicity remaining.
I thought that one was because somebody drew Toriel as thin. But anyway I guess some fans just never figured out how to use the act button irl
omg what the hell? this is bringing up memories of the hetalia and bleach shipping wars, people got so toxic over which characters "belonged together" that a lot of people were deleting their accounts after being bullied so damn hard for the "wrong" ship..... jesus how has humanity not been deleted yet?...
And the fact that people say “But you should respect ships” or “But it’s a headcannon so it doesn’t matter”. Those people piss me off the most because they ruin everything.
in fact, people often use that phrase as 'respect the shipers'. 2. discourse, people mostly use it for normal people who don't bother anyone.
Exactly respect can only go so far. Im not respecting your ship if it’s pedophilic 💀
@@Kitsunerebornsdidn’t see this until now but I mean the problematic ships and ones that make literally no sense at all
I love this AU. I know I'm late for this, but I've always loved it. I hope the creator is doing better and is happy with their life.
I am so sorry this happened. I wish I could give them a hug. I doubt you'll be reading this, but I hope you have a wonderful day.
*You are filled with Kindness 💚*
i agree
hope they're doing good
Shiping can be Bad sometimes when not done right and It depends on the fandom and What the show/Game is about
how do you do shipping right? i've never heard someone say there's a wrong way to ship
@@CrazyGreenFluff what I mean by right or wrong I mean like shipping kids with adults or shipping toxic ships
@@CrazyGreenFluff or When people act toxic about their ships
@@CrazyGreenFluff Here let's say that since you like two characters being together, you want to ship them. You have to think about other details around those characters though. Like if one is 13 and the other is 16-20 those are pedophilic ships and are wrong. Same goes if the characters are siblings or clones of each other. And another thing is the context of those characters canon relationship. Like if one of them is extremely toxic to the other or abusive and manipulative, so pretty basic stuff like that
Thank you for talking about this. I’ve been in the fandom since the beginning, but I never heard this story. It really does show the moralities of the Undertale fandom.
This pains me to hear, as someone who has made aus, I can’t imagine what this would’ve been like to deal with. Genuinely, thank you for talking about this, stories like these are important to talk about.
This au was a masterpiece, and yet humanity finds a way to ruin all things good.
It's disappointing and upsetting.
*All good things must come to an end.*
I always interpreted the relationship between Frisk and Sans in the Flowerfell AU to be an Older brother-younger sibling/Father-child type relationship, and I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would ship them in the regular version let alone in the AU.
The sad part is I was just getting into Flowerfell when all this nonsense happened... The rabid Frans shippers and "Make my headcannon cannon or else" people ruined a perfectly good AU and it makes me really upset. At least that didn't happen to Glitchtale, right...?
Yeah, Glitchtale was ruined by something else entirely
@@liljatupsuyeah, Glitchtale was ruined by the creator of the AU. xD
I used to defend the ship with my life and now that I realized how gross it was I genuinely feel awful. Even though I never posted anything online about it I still feel like I spread the idea that frans was a fine ship. And I thought that Frisk’s age was up to the player even though one of the points of the game is that you aren’t Frisk.
I’m glad this situation was brought to light because looking at Sans and Frisk’s relationship now that I’m older I see that it’s obvious he was more of a mentor figure to them. He gave helpful tips and advice when they needed it and when they were hurting those around them he disciplined them. Sounds much more parental then romantic.
And with their relationship being so obvious yet Frans being such a popular ship it opens up dangers to young UT fans as well.
WARNING FROM HERE ON OUT IN THIS COMMENT; mentions of grooming and pedophilia
If the adults in the community who ship Frans look at their dynamic and think it’s okay, and post about it like it’s okay, what kind of message does that send to the kids in the fandom? It’s not only gross because it’s pedophilic but also because it perpetuates the idea that relationships like it that turn romantic or even sexual is normal, it primes kids for being groomed because they won’t know any better. I know I was in this boat. Due to the internet perpetuating the idea that older people who you look up to are also likely to want a sexual relationship with you and that’s okay, I didn’t think it was weird when an artist I looked up to who was in her 20s when I was 13 begging me for porn and to draw porn of our OCs was weird, I assumed it was normal.
Frans isn’t just gross because it’s an unhealthy relationship, it’s gross because what it’s fans have done to people, it’s gross because it’s pedophilic, and it’s gross because it’s dangerous.
Same here. I was also a Frans stand when I have entered the Fandom when I was 11 and seeing pedo like ships like Frans I though it was normal.
Left the Fandom when I was 14. I am 16 now and I am Hella ashamed that I liked such a gross ship like this. This is dangers mostly cause the game for ppl whom are above the age of 13 and stuff like this can teach young teens/ kids horrible things and they will think it's normal.
I don't care if people ship it because it's fiction. But people can easily keep that to themselves and they shouldn't act like it's something to be promoted in real life. I personally don't think that what fictional characters you ship in a fictional world have much to say about what you consider appropriate in real life. But the way people act about this ship is disgusting.
Same I keep making excuses for myself why Frans is an okey ship before. Even if someone made an au and made frisk is aged up it's kinda iffy to me. I'm not in the fandom anymore and now I just see them platonically it seems better since their dynamic is just a mentor-student.
Oh good lord, you're absolutely right about those implications.
It's really important that the Undertale fandom has gained the awareness it lacked before to reflect on what is and isn't okay. Before, I think it became a mob mentality surrounding a fanon creation.
With many of the artists and writers for Frans, I genuinely don't believe they all had sick intent. I don't think they looked at a child and an adult and decided they wanted to push that relationship in a romantic or sexual way. I think they looked at the fabrication made by the fandom, the essentially brand new character Frisk had been turned into and the dynamic made between them and Sans, and enjoyed it, and wanted to push that.
If everyone else was fine with it then hey, no need to step back, right? It's just a fandom's interpretation, nobody's _actually_ trying to push pedophilia, right? (Note the sarcasm.)
In summary, people created a different version of the characters that gained so much popularity nobody questioned it. Fans fell in love with THAT Frans, THAT Sans and Frisk, not the canon versions.
It's so saddening that something became so misguided that, in an effort to have fun with a dynamic and gain happiness, it accidentally pushed horrible implications. While those people may not have bad intentions, you're absolutely correct. It does unfortunately support, in theory, grooming and other awful behaviours.
I discovered Flowerfell through secret garden. I liked the music and saw there was a fic about it. Thus I discovered overgrowth. A very and I mean VERY beautiful story. Sometimes I wish I had some creativity like the creator had. It made me think back of how much I adored undertale with its plot as a whole. I admit I was selfish too about the AU. I never thought how hurtful the original creator was about people’s response. He should’ve had the freedom to create whatever he desires. Yet somehow got attacked by both fronts…. I wish I knew the creator more before I heard about this drama as a whole.
I remember thinking this was only a Frans AU, and only a few months ago did I find out that wasn’t the case. Man.. as an author, and a artist, it hurts knowing what became of the creator. I hope they’re doing well now ❤
Unfortunately, the creators themselves came out and confirmed it is a Frans AU.
@ReesesBees what!? Did you not watch the video!? It literally talking about how the the AU ISNT A FRANS AU! that it's just about always being kind!
@@__ocean_arts__ literally lmao
This is Karen Rachel wood levels of entitlement from a fanbase who used this man to the point where they mentally squeezed this person's mental health and their creation DRY!
This man did the right thing by copyrighting and trademarking their work just so that PEOPLE WHO ARE THE PHYSICAL EMBODIMENT OF UTTER DISGUST wouldn't pass off this wonderful piece of artistry AS THEIR OWN!
I feel so disappointed and incredibly dishearteningly ANGRY not only for the fanbase involved but condolences to one of the most kind-hearted artists to ever grace the face of this earth.
Great video as always, thanks for the information and also have a great rest of your day, you beautiful human being.
I'm honestly surprised and scared at how easily the misinformation about the AU spread to the point where people got introduced to the story as a Frans AU, myself included, and that was the big and only factor I disliked about it (apart from that, I really liked the concept of Frisk sacrificing themselves to free the Underground and the flowers growing, kinda reminding me of the hanahaki disease).
It's quite shocking to hear that all this time that was a wrong misconception of the fandom and it could have been a nice and sad story without the Frans content. ;-;
Flowerfell's downfall was kind of like one of my friendships. I had a very good friendship with a friend named Daniel. We were very good friends, but people tried to make us love each other. It was very hurtful, and an entire 5 years were a bad memory of my childhood.
With popularity comes hate, sadly. Its such a shame to hear about an AU that is suppose to represent kindness regardless of being a human or monster. It truly shows humans are despicable, selfish creatures.
Hearing Psi speak of the matter was difficult, not because of how emotional it was but because its difficult to hear through tears. It hurts to listen to them break down about something like this, they worked hard and long on the AU that had a lot of potential. I am not in the undertale fandaom but i admit that even iwould be a part of that AU did it still exist today, due to how well written and told it is.
This is a great video to shine light on the troubles people go through creating popular AU’s, and my heart goes out to Psi for having to deal with such cruilty. People need to realize that an AU is just a fun concept someone creates and is meant to be nothing more but something to be creative about and bring people together.
No one is entiteled anything, no one owes you anything unless you paid them to make you something.
Amazing video Stream, it was interesting and very informative! Keep up the good work! 💜
Makes me happy, after all these years, Flowerfell wasn't a Frans au. Sucks how the fandom portrayed it tho.
It's so heartbreaking to hear someone break into tears because they had to watch their best friend lose all their work because a few people were greedy. This poor person is clearly so upset at the position that their friend was put in and they felt as if they should have done more, even if they couldn't have. That's so, so heartbreaking
I liked the au only for its music ill admit,
I never went to harrass the creator over the whole deleting the AU, in fact, this is why the fanbase is falling apart, how Underswap was deleted too, because of this damn fanbase, everyone needs to chill, honestly, its always because of the fanbase or shipping, its just sad how this will kill the fanbase,
RESPECT THE CREATORS DECISIONS IF THEY DELETE THE AU, ITS NOT YOUR CHOICE TO CONTINUE IT, you are NOT entitled at all, at ALL.
I dont have a problem with shipping it always depends on the context, but if you're gonna get TOXIC because somebody doesn't like what you ship, then thats just another reason things fall apart
Context about Underswap
(FROM WHAT I READ:)
The Creator deleted the AU due to shipping, the fanbase replacing Swap sans and Swap Papyrus' names with Carrot and Blue, and etc, they abandoned it and deleted the information about underswap.
This is what I've read about at least I dont fully believe it all, but it would make sense, the fanbase has ruined underswap
wait what happened to underswap? ;;
@@chicx360_ the creator abandoned the au
@@junarorexl You remeber me of cross (about the Oreo meme thing), the only creator makes me back to this fandom was Jakei I don't want to jakei goes too the same fate like the creators of flowerfell i'm really sorry for what happend, befor this video I was thinking of fangirls, and NSFW be a issue (the NSFW and foncet thing still a massive issue on the fandom in my opinion) but no whit this video *Ships make by fans* (Like sancest and frans) and *Headcanons* It's a _Issue_ a issue that can make the fandom really toxic I know fangirls have issues but olny the crazy ones i'm so, so sorry of this after this video i fell so gross and bad of read this things reading fanfics of sancest or see the headcanons version of swap sans, dream and etc i fell i'm doing the bad thing..., I really hope deltarune don't go to the same fate of the UTAU comunny now, i beleve that the most toxic people can have a chance to change like what sans Said in the genocide run....
_We need a reset for all this fandom_ .
@@HerooftheWind wait ew you mean ppl shipping s!pap and s!sans with eachother? ;; or shipping them with other aus?? cuz i will gladly stop shipping swap sans and fell sans if the creator is uncomfortable with it
@@chicx360_
Mainly targeting the swap papyrus and swap sans shipped together, they do also direct it towards the au sans shipping
flowerfell was my favorite au. and the fact that fans of the au were harrasing the creator so much they shut it down pains me. and whats even worse is that people thought they were entitled to more flowerfell, it bewilders me. its so sad cause i used to loveeee flowerfell and now that the fans made it get shut down is sad.
Gosh, I remember seeing and passively liking stuff for this AU years ago. I had no idea how horrible the situation was for the author, and as a fanfic writer myself, that kind of scares me. To have so many people like what you make, but then treat you and your creation with so much disrespect--I would lose heart. And the sad thing is, this happens so much in the Undertale community! I followed so many artists who discontinued their series due to harassment, and it always made me so sad. What the heck is wrong with these people!?
I was pretty young when finding out about Flowerfell, I would avoid it cuz many said it was a Frans ship, I didn't even know it was about such a beautiful message.. 🤧 its really upsetting to see such a great AU fall
Hearing all of this actually is greatly upsetting.
Undertale is about kindness and choices. The same could be said about Flowertale, it's actually a really unique concept to take from Frisk's game overs. But I'm sick to my stomach how the toxicity of a fandom can really mentally hurt somebody.
You can love a concept. But it isn't your own.
You can ship a character with another. But you should never force it.
If somebody tells you to stop. You should really stop.
The fandom took this AU in the wrong direction and it deserves to forever remain unfinished as a punishment. It was written by somebody who was really happy to publish their work and share it with the fandom, but fandom took it as their own and hurt the people involved. That's wrong and I don't agree with that kind of behavior and the entitlement that the fandom has. It's not surprising anymore tbh, I've seen fandoms get this bad and I just feel bad for the people they hurt along the way...
Finding out that this was platonic has made this so much happier. I thought the AU was cute, but ITS PLATONIC? A PLATONIC STORY ABOUT KINDNESS AAAAAAAAAA
:D This is so great! I'm disappointed that people were so mean to the creator. I've never read Flowerfell though. I just have heard the song and grabbed context there.
I was actually planning on making an AU about kindness, myself. But uh, I guess this is a warning for me to never post my AU on the internet.
Thank you for reminding me about a little part of my childhood and for talking about this topic!
I personally very much dislike Frans because of the whole fact that Frisk is a child, and remembering all the Frans content of Flowerfell made me feel so uncomfortable being a kid myself. I'm so happy that I find solidarity with you in the whole shipping fiasco. I loved Flowerfell as a story of being kind and selfless, and not as a romance between an old skeleton and a dying kid.
Thank you for the wonderful video Stream! The content was great! ♡
It’s such a good au
It’s sucks how the fandom ruins all of it
Have your fantasies but they can’t always be true, it’s disgusting how people think just because they didn’t do what you wanted them to do
And also it’s NEVER okay to sell someone’s art for your own profit without permission that’s not right
People really need to chill
(Is frisk x sans even legal or okay?)
Frisk x Sans IS in fact ilegal. Since Sans seems to be a grown ass adult. And Frisk is a kid.
it's illegal, even if you make frisk as an adult, it doesn't matter, they are a child in canon. If you make an au for an excuse to ship a child with an adult you're weird
@@sukuramaizu honestly yeah.
I can't believe I used to ship it 💀💀
This whole video I was mentally composing a letter to Sonai, with what I would send to her ask box if I had been aware of Flowerfell back when all the drama went down. I would have said, “you don’t need to stop creating for this, you don’t owe anyone anything. Don’t share something if you don’t want to, we’re not entitled to anything you create. I’m sorry you have to deal with this, and I’m sorry these people don’t get the core message of this AU, kindness. I hope this dies down soon for your sake.” Not fully what I would have said just that’s the jist of it
The pain in her voice (their friend that didnt know what to say) breaks my heart man
I just want to say that this saddens me that this happened to Sani & him becoming bitter, his (once?) Best friend Especially hit the nail on my thoughts hearing all this...
I didn't know about any of the hate surrounding Flowerfell, I did know there was shipping involved but I never cared for it.
What saddens me the most is this. "Sometimes kindness is all we need. Maybe kindness is enough" (paraphrasing how I believe it went), this quote has been ingrained in me for many years & I'm never letting it go because it helped me as a person.
I don't think Sani will read this..but I want to say thank Sani for giving this message to your story & I'm sorry you have to stray so far away from your work now, I hope that other projects will go more better for you in the future.
Damn, it got really emotional at the end.. it's so sad that some people don't see themselves as the selfish ones and act like they're the good ones, it's crazy how a game created by such a wholesome creator who made himself as a random annoying dog in a game about feeling for others grew such disgusting fans
I was still a kid when I entered the undertale fandom, so i didn’t really understand shipping that well yet. I’m pretty sure I didn’t even connect the dots between the secret garden song and flowerfell, because I thought the song was a reference to the book The Secret Garden. Looking back on it, I can see where all the negativity on the au came from, and I suppose I can see the reason behind it. I’m not taking anyones side here, just saying that threatening people over a piece of art, some digital writing and a bloody song (a hella good one at that) is absolutely insane. It’s happened way too many times now, that au creators retire because of the community, and I do think about what those creators are currently doing in their life from time to time, and how this whole experience affected them