Review: Haitink's Variable Complete Concertgebouw Recordings
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2023
- When Haitink was good, he was very, very good, but when he was bad, he was boring. That is the main takeaway from this 113 CD (plus 4 DVD) set. The great stuff is well known, and has been steadily available, so if you have those recordings, you won't need to invest in this gigantic box.
- Hudba
Dave is just flexing now. Next we'll be seeing the complete combined Columbia, RCA, DG, Philips, Decca, Mercury, Telarc, Teldec, L'Oiseau-Lyre, Hungaraton, Supraphon, Melodiya Mega Massive Ginormous Box set stored inside a long long trailer made of two-inch thick-cardboard with an insert booklet the size of Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire that has to be hauled with a towing cable attached to a big rig.
Wow! Nobel Prize material that!!!
But of what conductor??? 😉
@@markokassenaar4387 Karajan might provide enough, if every media warehouse is swept thoroughly clean of all the recordings he ever made.
Yes, Herman Krebbers was a great violinist!!
One of my great experiences in music was hearing Gotterdammerung under Haitink's baton at Covent Garden. Just a wonderful memory and Anne Evans was magnificent. She certainly didn't have a voice like Flagstad but she achieved great clarity and focus, maximizing what she had.
I saw that as well - and I will never forget the amazing sound the orchestra made at the end of Gotterdammerung, Never heard the ROH orchestra sound that good before or since.
Hits & misses accepted, I'm glad to see this box available. I'm not going to get it, but happy to see a well done/ thought out tribute done for Haitink 👍
The Concertgebouw has an organ and a fine one indeed! (Te Deum Bruckner)
Mine just arrived minutes ago. I'm looking forward to it. A good friend of mine and I saw him conduct Bruckner's 4th Symphony with the CSO. That was a great concert.
Mark Miller, would you be so kind as to check your copy of the disc number 21 (Schubert Rosamunde incidental music) especially the last 2 tracks, 10 & 11? My disc 21 breaks up and refuses to finish when it reaches those tracks, especially 11. Thanks for any input you can give me on this.
@@toddschurk8143 Hello. Yes, I will let you know.
@@toddschurk8143 Hello: I just listened to tracks 10 and 11. I didn't have problems. If other discs play normally, then my guess is that this disc could simply be dirty and the laser in the disc player is misreading the disc. I'd try cleaning the disc and see if that helps.
Thanks for checking, I've cleaned the heck out of it and I never have trouble with my player on any other discs, in this set or any other. Guess I just got one lemon. Now what to do. It's only 2 tracks after all. I'll probably just live with it.
@@toddschurk8143 Try playing it on a different player and see what happens. It's certainly possible you have a defective disc. But I've had CDs that for whatever reason don't play on one machine, but will on another.
OMG, this is a difficult review. I think David is mostly right, but yeah: when i discovered classical music when i were 16-17 I just bough recordings of Von Karajan. Who else? But then I found out that as a Dutch kid living in the countryside my country has a great orchestra and conductor as well: the concertgebouw and Haitink. He went my 'hero' before I ever heard a recording of him and heard the orchestra. In 1985 i went as 20yo guy to my first Haitink concert: the Sjostakovitsj 1st violin concerto (with concert master Viktor Liberman) and Bruckner 3. Since then I heard Haitink live around 100 times. (I was in the audience at his last Christmas Matinee in 1987 with Mahlers 9th). Lot to say about Davids reviews, but one thing: yes, Haitinks Beethoven is dull, but not his Concertgebouw Pastorale! It is still my favorite Pastorale. Which conductor did the second movement better? So laizy, so sleepy, so beautifully played? Karajan? Harnoncourt? No. Whoever? You can throw away all Haitinks Beethoven symphonies, bot not his CG Pastorale (just the 2nd movement). Important: we Dutch are a small country, not importatnt at all, and then we have that gorgeous orchestra which (as David says) Haitink maintained very good. Or: finished the job Van Beinium was not allowed to do...
Oh yes, Van Beinum, the unsung hero of the Concertgebouw...
I have most of this stuff on LP, which is why I am having difficulty deciding whether to get the box. For me, there is enough that is worthwhile (LVB concertos, Brahms serenades, Bruckner, Mahler, Shostakovich, and Tchaikovksy, along with the really beautiful Bizet, Debussey and Ravel), that I might bite the bullet and do it. I don't think it is possible to overstate how great Krebbers was in the Beethoven and Brahms concertos along with Ein Heldenleben.
Haitink's LSO Beethoven cycle is among my favorites, and I really don't care whether it is the result of the conductor's idea or not. It is full of verve and beautifully played and recorded. One other note: just before the digital era, the Congertgebouw made some remarkably well interpreted, played, and recordings albums with other conductors: Kondrashin's Scheherazade is my favorite, and Colin Davis' Dvorak, Haydn and Stravinsky are really wonderful.
The Gramophones review (July 2023) is similar to yours but does praise Haitink’s Haydn (symphonies 96 and 99) Perhaps the only Haydn in his discography-yet the review also quoted him saying Haydn is so underrated and also complaining “ am I to spend my life playing what every other conductor plays?” So somewhat mysterious that his repertoire is so middle of the road
The Perahia Beethoven recordings were on CBS, right? The amount of licensing for this set is interesting. All the EMI licensing implies that EMI isn't planning their own Haitink mega-box.
He recorded quite a bit with other orchestras for EMI. So it might be too early to assume Warner isn't planning a EMI-Haitink-box in the future.
Another Dave Big-box Review - Yay ! I'm never ever gonna buy this but this video is a total joy nonetheless. Huzzah !
Hermann Prey!!! Thank God there are recordings of him singing with Haitink and the Concertgebouw, because I was only a child then 🙂 Sorry guys, about the bad Boston recordings!
I have obsessively put together a BSO discography, which includes Haitink’s guest conductor work of Brahms and Ravel. Not better than Charles Munch, of course. I’ve never thought of the BSO as a Brahms band.
Yes indeed, had this Hermann Prey recording when it was out on a Phillips LP, then got the two CD set when Philips released it. For me it is the best sounding of Mahler I have ever heard. The Wayfarer Songs are just magnificent. Sure would have been disappointed if Dave didn't care for them.
@@paxpaxart4740 Hear, hear!
I grew up with his recordings ever since hearing an LP of him conducting Peter And The Wolf as well as Britten's 'A Young Person's Guide To The Orchestra' and regard him as somewhat of a personal hero of mine. Never gave it a lot of thought but I always gravitated towards other conductors for Beethoven, like Karl Böhm and George Czell. It's funny that you actually seem to validate what my instinct already told me - so it wasn't just me, haha.
I have his Bruckner and Mahler symphony cycles on LP box set, some of the best recordings I know. Unfortunately he never recorded the 1873 original version of the 3rd with the Wagner quotations still included, so I have to supplement it with a live recording conducted by Hans Zender. Might not be as good of a performance but at least it's the best version of that work IMHO.
My feeling on original jackets in these comprehensive boxes is: if you're going to do it, go all the way with it; otherwise, just have generic covers with maximum timings. My main criticism with the Sony boxes, as wonderful as they are, is that you get some original covers but not all, with various other works from other LPs used as filler, which makes finding some of the contents of these other LPs unnecessarily difficult without consulting the book.
Dave-Daniel Barenboim left as Music Director of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra in 2006. Ricardo Muti became the Music Director of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra in 2010. Bernard Haitink was the Interim Music Director{or Chief Director} of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra from 2006-2010, Did Haitink make any recordings with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra at that time period?
I know of a Mahler 6, but I assume there must be more?
@@markokassenaar4387 hi yes a Bruckner 7 also with Chicago.
The orchestra issued some live recordings on their own label.
Much as I admire Haitink, he was as you point out quite often prone to firing on less than full cylinders, and so on this occasion I won't be buying this set. As it happens, I already have the individual Bruckner, Mahler and Tchaikovsky symphony cycle sets, plus a number of others including the Strauss series (Ein Heldenleben is fantastic - one of the very best by anyone), Rachmaninov piano concertos and the exquisite Debussy orchestral works. It's sensible that Decca have included the LPO Shostakovich symphonies to make the cycle complete, but it does beg the question of what will happen when a possible/probable LPO box is released? Are they going to repeat the process by including the Concertgebouw Shostakovich recordings to make the cycle complete all over again? We'll see. In the meantime I shall save my not limitless funds and wait for the Klemperer/Warner and (promised) Fricsay/DG boxes to appear - I can't wait for those!
I agree with you on Herman Krebbers as the wonderful Beethoven soloist. Part of my pride in that is that, although I did nothing to achieve this 😉, he came from the small town of Hengelo, close to the German border, and that's where I grew up. [insert national anthem here 👈🏻]
I'm from Almelo. We have Herman Finkers!
Seems a fair share to me! 😉
Wasn’t the other Beethoven Piano Concerto series with Brendel? Didn’t know he did one with Arrau - I thought Arrau did cycles with Galliera and Davis, no?
Correct! But the Brendel cycle was with the LPO
Of course! Thank you…
Dave mentions that the set doesn't have some recordings, specifically the Planets. That was one of my first purchases - on cassette. I very much liked it, but it never garnered much praise. Years later one of the British record mags did a series of blind listenings for various pieces, and for the Planets, Haitink came out #1, to the reviewers' surprise. (Blind listernings are the way to go anyway, IMO.)
That second Shostakovich 15th you mentioned, is that the RCO Live recording?
yes
@@huismanq Thanks. I personally think it's excellent.
His was my first Beethoven's ninth a hundred years ago and at the time I thought it was faaaabulous. After many B9's later, I find it unlistenable for exactly the reasons you mention. I don't know if the performance or the sound is worst.
This is very similar to other big conductor boxes - whether it’s Karajan, Muti or Solti- lots of hits as well as misses. enough hits I would think to get the box if you have the cash and don’t have replicates.
Something about this review gives me the idea that David likes the orchestra better than Haitink. I don't know, just a hunch 😉
It's refreshing to know that someone else seems to share my taste (at least some of it). While I truly love the Concertgebouw, I have no enthusiasm for Haitink. I have only a few of his recordings, the Debussy, Ravel, and the Mahler Christmas Matinees. Throroughly disliked his LPO Schererazade, though. So I don't share all Dave's taste.
Oh well. Your loss. ;)
@@DavesClassicalGuide Really a hit or miss conductor, but the Concertgebouw is superb.
Still prefer the Eric Kleiber and Eduardo Van Beinum discography with the Concertgebouw. Come to think of it Monteux and Mengelberg were not too bad either.
To “wallop everything onto 82-minute CDs,” wouldn’t that require new mastering and therefore more upfront cost?
Of course.
I cant get over the fact that the Dutch word for Christmas Matinee, 'Kerstmatinee', in English sounds like 'Cursed Matinee' 😂
I always found him and his recordings rather dull. I heard him conduct the Mahler 3 at the Proms, the St-Saens Organ Symphony, and the Bruckner 9 in and with the Concertgebouw on his 65th birthday. Even the last event was rather underwhelming, sadly. However, there is an inspired Brahms 4 with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe at the Proms on CZcams which shows of what he was capable. A nice man, modest and self-effacing, and he kept the Concertgebouw Orchestra in the splendid shape in which he inherited from the great Eduard van Beinum. He will be missed.
Who's gonna buy these boxes? Beautifully packaged, of course. If you are a Haitink and/or Concertgebouworkest fan then the chances are you have a lot of this stuff. Duplicating stuff annoys me, but with so many boxes/download packages, it is unavoidable.
Glad they exist so it gives an excuse to post a review of Haitink's entire Concertgebouw career. Not sure why you'd buy these things otherwise when they're all incredibly available.
I bought it because I had only a few of these recordings. Same with the Szell Sony box. There are few conductor boxes I would, however what you get for the money, if it’s not greatly duplicating what you already have, is a great bargain. I can only imagine that the individual CD’s combined cost over the years was well into the thousands of dollars since it was very hard to find anyone selling classical for less than $15 per disc in the 80s and 90s. The tradeoff is that you don’t get the liner notes* which I miss. Most weren’t deep but they usually were interesting.
* The Szell box LP cover reproductions include the backs, so if you get out a good magnifying glass (or take a photo with your phone, then zoom in on it), you can read those notes. That’s not the case with Haitink’s box.
@@samuelheddle depends on your definition of “incredibly available.” Most of these are out of print individually, and things like the complete Tchaikovsky cycle set go for $100 when you can find a used one. Compare that to this entire set. I for one had a handful of these recordings (a couple of Shostakovich symphonies, a Duo coupling of Das Lied and Mahler 9, a few others). Heck, getting this for the Tchaikovsky and the Kerstmatinee DVD’s alone almost makes it worth the price, but it comes with everything else.
George Carlin once did an ad touting a package that included every sound recording ever made. The Milwaukee dial tone? Included!
We’re getting close.
Similarly, the comedy troupe SCTV (Second City Television) did a scene in which they pretend to offer a K-Tel advert featuring Canadian folk singer Gordon Lightfoot (noted for his November 1975 epic ballad "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald") singing every song ever written...~ The sight gag of the ginormous LP is not readily forgotten.
Regarding the Concertgebow orchestra. I always thought their brass section a little weak in, the works that matter. For example, Bruckner, Berlioz. I heard a recording of Symphonie Fantastique by Colin Davis, and the brass sounded like they off stage somewhere..
Isn’t that more a problem with the sound engineer than the quality of the players?
@@markokassenaar4387 quite possibly.