Review: DG's Ultimate Boulez Box--Bring Snacks
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- čas přidán 7. 02. 2022
- Boulez recorded music in clumps--lot's of Bartok, Debussy, Mahler, Berg, Ravel, Stravinsky, Schoenberg and Webern--and all of these clumps were issued previously, some of them multiple times. So who needs this? Well, if you care about Boulez (and you should, frankly), and haven't heard any of this stuff before, then go for this 80+ CD set. What more can I say? Have a look at the video and see for yourself.
- Hudba
"Chomp on one of these and you won't care what order the inner movements of Mahler's 6th go in."
- Dave Hurwitz on Mint Oreos
😂😂That has to be one of the best things I've ever heard on You Tube. Absolutely classic!😂😂
Boulez doing Mozart has to be just about the funniest prospect I've ever heard. you didn't even need to describe it - just the simple statement "Boulez does Mozart's _Gran Partita_ " is enough to illustrate how goofy that is
Thanks for the entertainment David. Always fun.
Here’s a Boulez story from my NYPO subscription days.
At a performance of Mahler’s Seventh, at the pause between the fourth movement and the finale, a heavyweight dowager got up from her seat near the front of the orchestra, got to the aisle and slowly, with deliberation, began walking up toward the rear exit. Boulez, noticing this, turned and faced the lady and, standing at attention, continued (along with the audience) to gaze at her as she made her way towards the back. When she had achieved her goal and the door closed behind her, Boulez with his right hand gave her a little “tip of the hat,“ and turned around to face the orchestra and begin the finale. The quiet chuckling in the audience was wonderful.
"Ah, Mrs. RIttenhouse - meet me tonight under the moon... I can see it now: you and the moon...
You wear a necktie so I'll know you."
@@markfarrington5183 "I'm sure the beautiful strains of Verdi's music will come back to you tonight..and Mrs. Claypool's checks will come back in the morning."
"...and how he used to date all of them, at one point or another" 🤣
Just too good
He was the Taylor Swift of the classical world.
During the 70's I played violin in a college orchestra. The visiting conductor for the day was Boulez. The first piece we played with him was some 12-tone piece with no melody. Possibly it was a piece by Schoenberg. Boulez spent the entire rehearsal trying to get the woodwinds perfectly in tune with each other. He was supposed to have had an incredible ear and I guess that even dissonances have to be in tune but the wind players were demoralized that the end of that rehearsal.
I guess he tended to reed too much into things ;)
It's better to work with him when everyone can play in tune though.
The NY Phil didn't call him "The French Correction" for nothing.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fantastic!
Apropos the initial post, yes, the dissonances MUST be in tune. That point was made very clear by then RSO (Regina Symphony Orchestra) music director and principal conductor Derrick Inouye (pupil of Hideo Saito and Franco Ferrara / assistant to Kazuyoshi Akiyama in Vancouver 1981~1984 / currently on staff at the Met in NYC) while rehearsing various works of Webern, which he was due to later perform with the NACO in Ottawa. He lost his temper ---granted, not an infrequent occurence during his RSO tenure!^^--- at our slapdash and inaccurate execution*, and shouted, "Yes, it is dissonant, but it has to be in tune!"
*Reporter: "Coach, what do you think of your team's execution?"
Coach: "I am HEARTILY in favour of it..."
Music critic #1: "What do you think of Stainer's 'Cruxifixion'-?"
Music critic #2: "Hmm, not a bad idea..."
I'm looking forward to the day DGG releases their BIG box: "EVERYTHING: Deutsche Grammophon's Complete Recorded Output" in a Ryder Truck sized box set.
As soon as I knew this was coming out, I was looking forward to your review on it! Thank you as always.
I hope you will also review Steinberg's Brahms cycle with the Pittsburgh Symphony on DG (Originally from Command Classics) as soon as it's released!
I hope so too!
Boulez The Comb over?
Only two likes so far for the BEST comment?! His was epic.
Dave you surpassed yourself with this one. Never seen my missus laugh the way she laughed at your song of praise to pringles, m & m, and oreos. Not at Norm McDonald talking about alcoholism, not even at Laurel & Hardy. You're a very funny fellow. Best, D.
There is CD 84 that is not mentioned in the box set outside, but it's inside. Ravel's Piano Concertos with Pierre-Laurent Aimard and The Cleveland Orchestra.
Yup, DG slipped a piece of paper in the booklet. Sloppy. But better than Sony Classical's Andre Watts edition, where his recording of Rachmaninoff's Corelli variations was left out entirely.
While I miss the free concerts he gave in LA to expose audiences to important 20th century pieces and the avant garde, I have to admit that I can't un-hear a recording he made of Handel's Water Music. One of my favorite TV experiences was a Sunday morning CBS program devoted to a rehearsal and performance of Stravinsky's Concertino for Twelve Instruments.
In the spring of '02 I heard Boulez lead the Chicago Symphony in Mahler Symphony no. 2, then a month later I heard Oue perform the piece with the Minnesota Orchestra. It was the last concert Oue did with Minnesota before his tenure as principal conductor there concluded. Minnesota sounded so much better playing the Mahler Second that spring, it really surprised me. It was the first time I'd heard the Chicago Symphony live, and I was expecting great things. Their reputation as a Mahler orchestra preceded them. But with Boulez leading, the music seemed to drag on interminably. I actually checked my watch once or twice. There was almost none of the epic emotional impact that you listen to Mahler for. It made me wonder why Boulez even wanted to do the piece; it didn't seem to be music he cared for. Oue's performance was just the opposite. It only seemed to last about 10 minutes, I didn't want it to stop. Absolutely electric, a fantastic rendition. Both orchestras are certainly first rate, but the players were so much more engaged in Oue's performance. They were having a lot more fun than the Chicago people, and the audience could tell.
16:34 Wait, you meet Messiaen? Also great video. I am now considering purchasing this box for myself and my ever growing collection and to add to my Boulez recordings (At this time only consisting of The love feast of the Apostles by Wagner with the NY Phil).
You've outdone yourself again here. Boulez in one giant clump. Bruckner 8 from an empty chair. Emotionless Mahler that actually works. Webern for those with eating disorders. Wagner without juice. Schoenberg's Pelleas & Melisande with a Jiffy-Lube oil change. And you don't care. Really, you don't. You haven't drunk the Kool-Aid. And why should we? I've got some of these discs (the good ones that you mention) & that's all you need. A pity he didn't do Tchaikovsky's Pathetique. I wonder what would you'd snack on with that?!
I think that might require a full-on transfusion.
Didn't Boulez hate Tchaikovsky's music?
So David, should I rush out and buy the Boulez monolith or invest in a tube of Pringles? I can't afford both.
We now know how David maintains his girlish figure.
Indeed.
Dave, could you tell us what goes well with blueberry poptarts? Thanks.
Roussel, but only when Boulez plays him, you understand.
I just had an image of our host sneaking into a Severance Hall in Cleveland with an entire box of mint Oreos to take in a Boulez performance of Mahler’s 6th. Boy wouldn’t that be fun! It would liven up the concert and mortify all the surrounding blue hairs in the audience.
Mint Oreos?! For the Sixth? Gotta be Double Stuf.
Hi Dave. I have never seen the Berlin Mahler 6 anywhere other than this set. You mention it is a ‘similar’ performance. Was it previously released on DG? Not sure we’ve seen it in Europe if so.
I don't think so. But it is similar.
You are on fire 🔥
But
What a real critical opinion with imagination and creativity
This is the best
Am I wrong in thinking that Birtwistle is the British Charles Wourinen, or Milton Babbitt? (remember that lovely disc Levine did of Cage/Carter/Babbitt/Schuller? . . . . boy, that was a big hit at fraternity parties).
I think I'm an outlier because I find much of Boulez's recorded work fascinating. I guess I'm wired differently but I really like his Debussy and Ravel recordings on both Sony and DG.
Your approach is funny, though. However, if people want a truly funny David Hurwitz video, check out the Beethoven piano concerto cycle piece where he mocks a certain recording set "recorded in a bathroom." It's super hilarious.
His Debussy and Ravel are great, as I mentioned. I don't think you're unusual at all in thinking that. It's the general consensus.
This video is hilarious! I LOVE your reviews!
You hit a nerve with me when you mention food. Is there anything in this BOULEZ BOX that would go with Limburger Cheese on a Ritz cracker? Love your line THREE HOOKERS AT A HYDRO-ELECTRIC PLANT....Keep those videos coming !!!!
Sure, the Bruckner 8th.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Bruckner 8th, I'll keep that in mind. Wish I could hook up with those three hookers and generate my own power, but at my age I don't think I could even light up a flashlight bulb.
You already had me at "Boulez the Electrician"
Boulez didn’t like me.
I’m rather proud of that.
I found the Chereau (sp ?) Ring interesting (sometimes ridiculous), but as David says, not moving. For me, the Ring is an almost-Greek tragedy about doomed families.
As for Boulez the conductor, I regard him as guy with a great ear for orchestral sonority and rhythm. He can be terrifically exciting, but the excitement comes from the playing he inspires, rather than from the emotion in the scores. David makes the great comment that he seemed to be a bit of a cold fish ("enigmatic") himself. I would add that he seemed to be interested more in a theory of "musical progress" than in music. He seemed never to enjoy the music he played.
You are quite correct about the results of his conducting. First, he knew the scores backwards and forwards. Second, he insisted that everyone play in tune. Third, they had to play the correct notes and phrasing. I think his intention was to serve the wishes of the composer and not himself. He made the scores come alive by inspiring the musicians with his musicality, intelligence, and preparation. The results were sometimes astounding. His Mahler 9th in Carnegie Hall with the NYP was pure magic. His Sacre in LA blew the theater to pieces. His recording of Daphnis with Berlin is the most obscene recording available. Ravel would have loved it. His La Mer is the gold standard. It is true he had no relationships in his 90 years and his only pet was a turtle. It is interesting that he followed Lenny at the NYP who was his antithesis.
This is pure outstanding trolling. "the almond M&Ms go better with late Stravinsky". 😂😂. Bravo!!!!!
Nobody seems to have said it but where’s the Frank Zappa disc?
On Warner.
That wouldn't be o Warner after the Zappa v Warner Brothers lawsuit.
The current cd is on Universal Music Enterprises (or UMe for short).
Anyway, Boulez only conducted three pieces on that album.
I don't know if there are any other performances/recordings of those pieces, conducted by Boulez, that could have been in this box.
With classical music I drink wine or beer. No chips and no candies. Maybe some chocolate bar.
Regarding Boulez and late Stravinsky, do you know if there's any particular reason he didn't record Agon? Even the recording in the box, Boulez, Le Domaine Musical, is assigned to Hans Rosbaud (in terrible sound, unfortunately.) By the way, did you ever do a review of Agon recordings? I like Tilson-Thomas and Leinsdorf.
No, I haven't done Agon but I hope to at some point. A splendid work.
And Gielen, which is superb.
Boulez DID perform Agon with the LA Phil prior to a Paris residency. Perhaps someone might have a recording???
Gielen was a wonderful conductor.
@@dennisbade3874 Someone in a group once said he heard Boulez conduct it in concert and that "he nailed it."
I think a kale and kambucha smoothie goes great with Webern. I can't eat more than one or two Oreos at my age, but I do like mint Oreos with Mahler. Good choice. 70% dark chocolate with his Bruckner 8 should work. I like Boulez - he was a hoot without trying to be a hoot. The trick is to not take him TOO seriously, right?
You got it!
@@DavesClassicalGuide It's certainly a very monolithic looking box.
The Blu Ray Ring is new - previous just on DVDs. Saw that Ring at Bayreuth three times and it remains for me the best directed Ring I have ever seen BUT the conducting could often be mechanical and emotionless
I want to bring an M&M bag like that but I think they now cost more than the Boulez box.
Yes, but they taste so much better.
WAgner Parsifal by Boulez, Boulez is using a scalpel. Great.
Coming next... Snackhausen
Yum!
If I mention Schoenberg's "Pelleas" during my next appointment at Jiffy-Lube, do you think they'll give me $10 off? Just wondering. Seriously: about 20 years ago, Boulez wrote an article for a Chicago Symphony program book in which he stated that he found it pointless to rehearse an orchestra until the intonation was accurate. HOWEVER...he also advised that, when confronted with bad intonation on the podium, a conductor should just "SAY SOMETHING....eg: say: "Bassoons, that D is flat..".. in other words, TAKE A STAB AT IT, even if you're not sure what the problem is; it's better to do this than to let it go by saying nothing. I wish I could locate the article; in fact, this could have been TWO separate articles I'm recalling, but I found both comments rather remarkable, considering his reputation as an infallible ear. Maybe another viewer has also read this.
Yes, Boulez's first (SONY) Debussy "Images" with Cleveland is, in my book, not only superior to his later (DGG) recording, but superior to every other performance I've heard (but Jun Markl on Naxos is darn' close).
Boulez was definitely running on auto-pilot in his later Chicago Symphony engagements. I talked to one of the percussionists in the Varese Ionisation recording, who said that Boulez "just didn't seem interested", and basically ignored a lot of imprecise rhythmic playing in rehearsal taht could have easily been tightened up. He was an often-frustrating and enigmatic musician, but DID produce some amazing, unbeatable performances on disc. LR
I respectfully disagree on the Boulez/Chereau Ring. Although, it’s true that Boulez kinda sped through the score, Chereau got the singers to actually act and physically work each other, as opposed to the ‘tradition’ of them just standing there singing AT each other. I’m also partial to this Ring since it was the first time I saw it.
Understood, and that's fine, but to say that Chereau was the first to get the singers to actually act and physically interact is just plain wrong. That's been going on since Mahler's day.
@@DavesClassicalGuide No, I didn’t say Chereau was the FIRST. I’m just saying he did it, unlike most productions where the singers are standing there like trees, hoping that their wonderful voices are heard. The Siegfried/Wanderer duet from Act 3 of Siegfried, for me, is great theater. They’re actually fighting each other! And I love how Manfred Jung and Donald McIntyre work together as a team. I haven’t seen it as much in other productions.
@@charlescoleman5509 I get it, you like it, and that's fine, but how many "other productions" have you seen that puts you in a position to generalize about this? I'm not trying to get on your case about it, but there's a difference between exaggerating for the sake of the point, and making factual claims based on expertise that you don't have because no one has it--it's impossible. I have no idea what "most productions" are like. Neither do you. So it's enough to like what you like without dismissing what you don't know and have never seen. That's just my suggestion. Maybe I've been an editor for too long, but when I see statements like that I take exception to them automatically. You just explained your reasons for liking what you do extremely eloquently and persuasively. So why diminish that excellent description by making a fallacious comparison?
@@DavesClassicalGuide Well said. David. Shortly after seeing Chereau’s production on PBS, I got to see a few other Rings. Karajan’s Die Walküre at the Met in the early 80’s and the later Otto Schenk and Robert Lepage productions. All three had great sets and visuals. Arguably more attractive than Chereau’s. But all too often, the singers were more stationery. standing in the same spots. Not that there was any bad acting per se, but it seems to me that Chereau got his singers to go out of their comfort zone and be much more physically active in his version, which didn’t seem to happen nearly as much in the other three. Being a baritone who has performed in a lot of contemporary opera, I love working with directors who think outside the box, which I feel Chereau did more than most. So, that’s my long winded speech. I hope you don’t think I’m as crazy as the BRUCKNER people . 😄
@@charlescoleman5509 Not by a mile! I see your point, especially with Lepage. That was amusement park ride. You just hang on and hope you don't fall to your death.
Dave-new T-Shirt for you: "Boulez-Keep On Snacking"
Hmmmmm.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Didn't you mean Yummmm?
@@TheScottishoats That too.
Here on Planet Baxia the search for Boulez continues in the Oreo Groves.
🤣🤣🤣
Ah, now that line in _Jabberwocky_ finally makes sense: "All mimsy were the Oreo Groves".
I've put on weight just watching the opening few minutes. 😂😂😂
😂 good sense of humor
If I get this whole monstrosity, I'll probably gain 10 pounds from all the snacks needed to get through it....I'll go for the Ravel/Debussy DG Box instead.
One of your best presentations. Half an hour of fun, worth it for the word "sleazocity" alone.
Pringles with Boulez‘ Debussy, better than caviar with vodka.
I love this! Boulez is not my cup of tea at all. Snacks are great.
I take issue with calling Pringles "food." I know, "Lighten up, Ulf."
Dave, I would take your advice, but I'm on a diet right now. :)
Honestly, Pierre Boulez has never been one of my favorite conductors. I find a lot of his interpretations to be too stale and/or soulless. There are a few exceptions, though, like his Debussy and Ravel. However, I prefer conductors who are more old school and/or emotionally charged, like George Szell and Leonard Bernstein.
What about Wagner's Ring with McDonald's Big Mac, french fries and a really superlarge Coke?
Sounds good to me.
My blood sugar just spiked!!!!!!
😂
I don't get the fascination with Boulez. Pass me the snacks...
Did they leave out the Debussy Pélléas dvd from the welsh national opera???? If they did such a pity, that’s the best performance to watch of that piece.
Now about that ring cycle. His approach is the most singer friendly, with the emphasis on the orchestral clarity and the swift tempi, and many of the singers did their best work in that cycle while they crashed and burn elsewhere (Manfred Jung and Solti 3 years later still in Bayreuth for example).
Donald McIntyre is the most underrated of all Wotans out there, that act 2 monologue in Walküre has never been captured better in an audio visual format, and you hear ALL the leitmotifs coming from Boulez and the orchestra exactly as you’d expect.
Also, James King in the Parsifal sounds better live than he does in the studio with Kubelik.
I can’t think of any conductor who took Wagner’s demand for clarity more seriously, and it shows.
Thank you Dave for going through this set!
Agree about the Wagner. Much better than anyone gives credit, James King sings a definitive Parsifal and really, who is actually complaining that Parsifal is less than 4 hours???? It’s a wonderful performance.
Agreed about all three recordings, which I've always enjoyed. It's also a shame if the DVD/BluRay of Pelléas isn't included - I saw it live, and it was a wonderful production all round. It was thrilling to have the (in)famous Boulez conducting my "local" opera company, and it remains a cherished memory.
@@ftumschk Allison Hagley is one of the great underrated Mélisande out there. It’s a fantastic performance. You are incredibly fortunate to have witnessed it in person.
@@djquinn4212 Thanks. I also highly rate Boulez's earlier Pelléas with Söderström, McIntyre (etc) at Covent Garden... although, as a mere toddler, I didn't get to see that one ;) More than 50 years on, it still sounds great.
I see they missed Boulez’ fine DVD of Janacek’s House of the Dead as staged by Chereau. Shame on them!
And you get the Ring twice. So silly.
:-)
Isn't Birtwhistle pronounced "Birtwhile"? I could be wrong.
You can't possibly think that I care.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I guess not.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You didn't mention what you should eat when he conducts his own music
Pepcid. .
@@DavesClassicalGuide LOVE IT !!!!!
As to Boulez's emotional sterility I read in some biography that he hated his mother who, he says, was an illiterate, 'simple peasant.' This is pop psychology, I know, but this biographical detail has always stuck with me and might explain something about his personality, if not always his music.
Hahahaha very droll DH
Dave, I'm surprised you had to resort to product placement! Love your channel, but disappointed in you. Keep going!
Aw shucks...you got me. I secretly work for Nabisco.
Hilarious
Boulez was not a good conductor but the musicians in front of him did their jobs perfectly regardless. He never used a baton and his gestures were monotonous.
I do get the impression that even on some of the best Boulez recordings, the performances are great in spite of Boulez rather than because of him.
Boulez cannot be a bad conductor if the musicians "did their jobs perfectly regardless". Make up your mind
@@corgansow7176 I actually don’t find the statement inconsistent. Legion are the stories of orchestras that essentially decided to ignore a conductor yet turned in a fine performance nonetheless.
Wow. Of all the hills to die on, this is certainly one of them.
@@AlexMadorsky sorry to sound condescending but orchestras he conducted such as Cleveland, Chicago, Berlin and Vienna wouldn't invite him repeatedly if he's a "bad conductor". Also the OP stated that he thinks Boulez is a bad conductor because "he doesn't use baton" and "he lacked gestures" which is opinion of an uneducated layman listener
🤣🤣🤣