I remember my days on the VFD, I was the door breacher, always had the Halligan with me, and a hose behind me to attack. I did run air bottle switch out as a probie, but quickly moved to being a searcher for lack of a better term. I'm very grateful I never had to do more than look for anyone that wasn't known to be there, as the two times we had a house fired (TINY little town) everyone who was known to be there was out, but still, you have to check. Had I not gotten hurt, I was planning to learn the job of an Engineer, and did train on hydrants for a month before my accident. Now? I teach knots, convince probies you can push start a K12, and cook dinner when I get to hang out.
In the front load method the end of the 5 inch is clearly about 5 to 8 feet away from the hydrant when the truck drives off. That could be a significant amount of weight to pull back to the hydrant. When they cut back to the second due connecting vehicle, the end of the 5 inch mysteriously appears right next to the hydrant. Just have the first guy wrap the hydrant and maybe not use the strap/webbing. Just my 2 cents worth….
understood. however in this scenario that hose doesn't necessarily have to connect to the hydrant. it will connect to the discharge of the arriving apparatus, which will use their own hose to make the hydrant connection. but yes, pulling that back would be a huge challenge.
Why don't the fittings match so an adaptor isn't needed? The whole start up is rather slow either way. Seems like the engine could have a tank of water already on board to use immediately while connections are made.
It does. Anything with a pump on it is going to have a several hundred gallon tank. It's simply not enough. On a actual fire scene this will be done more smoothly and not so awkwardly.
Also the deadman rope should be set around 6/8 feet back from the steamer conection couplings . Preferable at a fold. This leaves slack for being able to connect. See video end of hose is a good 10feet away from plug and once LDH is on the ground you will not be able to use a Hose Streatcher LOL. Notice that i. Video the LDH was moved back towards the plug. LOL Just shy of 40 years OTJ. Scene it done it a zillion times LOL
I get the thoughts on this, but what will you do when you lay forward and notice pressure isn't enough. If the line is already charged, its complicated to augment it with a dedicated pump at the hydrant. How do you decide which method is used? How many feet of supply hose are you able to lay before pressure gets down due to friction loss? (Disclaimer: I'm a German firefighter and we tend to use other tactics, especially in urban and well hydranted areas)
czcams.com/video/4wUc1NqO0ew/video.html Here is a (more recent) video we put together on water supply stressing this point. The basic point is that unless the hydrant is right next to the attack engine, you should always put a pump at the plug. The older way of forward laying to the fire could leave you with the need to either interrupt supply to cut into the plug, or to use 4-way valves (which we don't carry). Laying dry and leaving a spot for another engine to pump at the plug is a better way as long as you have those resources coming in a timely manner. Friction loss is dependent on supply diameter and flow rate. So FL may not be a big deal if you're supplying a single line fire but may become a big deal if you get into master stream territory.
in our opinion it doesn't necessarily matter. It could depend on a few factors. Our general preference is to put gates on both side outlets when possible.
short answer is sure. There are a lot of factors to consider. Our "ladders" have 500 gallon tanks same as our engines. Water supply, apparatus spec, response times of other apparatus all come into play for sure.
In what world does the second “engine “ dump their tank water to supply the attack engine? Without an established direct hydrant supply an interior crew could get in trouble if the second engine can’t get enough water to the attack crew.
With an initial attack flow rate of 160 gpm, you have roughly 374 seconds of continuous flow using solely tank water from the first two apparatus, assuming you have 500 gallon tanks, and you have 1000 gallons of water to utilize before more water is required. With 750 gallon tanks, you have over 560 seconds of continuous flow capability, and 1500 gallons of water immediately on-hand. This method is a derivative of the booster back-up method of water delivery (which officially assigns third-due to permanent water supply establishment). This works best in jurisdictions with 2nd and 3rd arriving companies that typically arrive in less than 3-5 minutes from the 1st arriving. For more detailed info on these concepts, visit: www.firehouse.com/operations-training/article/21217485/command-control-success-people-before-water countyfiretactics.com/category/engine-company/booster-back-up/ countyfiretactics.com/2018/11/10/booster-back-up-3rd-due-for-supply/
I was thinking about the same thing. But my Station only runs a two man duty crew. If they us a "front-load" then they are depending on another engine or Station to come along and connect. Even in the case of calling a Mutual Aid right at the same time as their Size Up, the next Responding Company may be more that 10 plus minutes behind. Our guys will be out of water long before that!
No sir. We have four front-line and one reserve quint out of nine total companies. One operates primarily as a truck but does have a pump and water also. Each is different. We have a 107' TDA, a 107' rear mount stick, a 100' mid mount platform, a 75' rear mount stick and a 100' rear mount platform in reserve. The other five companies have engines.
Oh tell me how we could go faster please! To me, it sounds like you probably don't do anything fire service related but want to have an opinion like you're a pro. Do you realize that ladder truck has 500 gallons of water inside it? That's about 2 ½ minutes of water. I believe my fastest is a little over 1 minute from exiting the truck to being ready to flow water.
Well most places aren't like NYC. We don't have a massive amount of resources at hand. Small towns don't have the funding, employees, or call volume to support having just an ladder. You clearly don't work in the fire service so I'm assuming you're just uneducated on this topic. Fire apparatus aren't supposed to be cute or pretty, they are tools and nothing more.
Why are we opening hydrants like it's 1950? Someone needs to design a battery powered, heavy duty device, much like an impact wrench, to open hydrants in a few seconds. Any entrepreneurs out there?
In what world would you tie up a ladder truck picking up somebody's supply line? And why is there a pump on the ladder truck? Real ladder trucks don't have pumps. Real ladder trucks bend in the middle.
Almost all ladder trucks have water storage and water pumps. Often than not we buy quints which have Aerial Ladders, Ground Ladders, Hose, Water, and a Pump. Firetrucks often times do not bend in the middle making it more difficult to back out of tight areas. Usually it is the Engines responsibility for water suppression but if there are none available or it is needed on a different part of the foregrounds you may very well supply with a ladder truck. If you have a forest fire that has lit up 13 houses the goal at that point is just getting water on the fire, there would not be any search and rescue operation due to the extreme IDLH environments.
They are probably using their truck to not tie up the engine. These guys could be on their day off making this video. So the on duty engine crew can stay available to respond to calls. Also, when you say bend in the middle, are you referring to Tillers? Los Angeles County FD has tillers! Oh, but they are also Quints. So do those count as real ladder trucks? 🤔
Loved to see you extinguishes a fully involved fire house with your can. It’s always funny to see a full crew of Truckie on a roof of a fully ventilated house fire…. Until you see one of them disappear cause the roof collapse… and a rescue or engine crew has to go save his ass!
I remember my days on the VFD, I was the door breacher, always had the Halligan with me, and a hose behind me to attack. I did run air bottle switch out as a probie, but quickly moved to being a searcher for lack of a better term. I'm very grateful I never had to do more than look for anyone that wasn't known to be there, as the two times we had a house fired (TINY little town) everyone who was known to be there was out, but still, you have to check. Had I not gotten hurt, I was planning to learn the job of an Engineer, and did train on hydrants for a month before my accident. Now? I teach knots, convince probies you can push start a K12, and cook dinner when I get to hang out.
A fire truck drove by my house one time.
In the front load method the end of the 5 inch is clearly about 5 to 8 feet away from the hydrant when the truck drives off. That could be a significant amount of weight to pull back to the hydrant. When they cut back to the second due connecting vehicle, the end of the 5 inch mysteriously appears right next to the hydrant. Just have the first guy wrap the hydrant and maybe not use the strap/webbing. Just my 2 cents worth….
understood. however in this scenario that hose doesn't necessarily have to connect to the hydrant. it will connect to the discharge of the arriving apparatus, which will use their own hose to make the hydrant connection. but yes, pulling that back would be a huge challenge.
@@TheWoodlandsFireTraining I see what you're saying, then disregard my comment!
Why don't the fittings match so an adaptor isn't needed? The whole start up is rather slow either way. Seems like the engine could have a tank of water already on board to use immediately while connections are made.
It does. Anything with a pump on it is going to have a several hundred gallon tank. It's simply not enough. On a actual fire scene this will be done more smoothly and not so awkwardly.
Rockin the Ikea livery 🤙
Pretty cool😎
Also the deadman rope should be set around 6/8 feet back from the steamer conection couplings . Preferable at a fold. This leaves slack for being able to connect. See video end of hose is a good 10feet away from plug and once LDH is on the ground you will not be able to use a Hose Streatcher LOL.
Notice that i. Video the LDH was moved back towards the plug.
LOL
Just shy of 40 years OTJ.
Scene it done it a zillion times LOL
I get the thoughts on this, but what will you do when you lay forward and notice pressure isn't enough. If the line is already charged, its complicated to augment it with a dedicated pump at the hydrant. How do you decide which method is used? How many feet of supply hose are you able to lay before pressure gets down due to friction loss?
(Disclaimer: I'm a German firefighter and we tend to use other tactics, especially in urban and well hydranted areas)
czcams.com/video/4wUc1NqO0ew/video.html Here is a (more recent) video we put together on water supply stressing this point. The basic point is that unless the hydrant is right next to the attack engine, you should always put a pump at the plug. The older way of forward laying to the fire could leave you with the need to either interrupt supply to cut into the plug, or to use 4-way valves (which we don't carry). Laying dry and leaving a spot for another engine to pump at the plug is a better way as long as you have those resources coming in a timely manner. Friction loss is dependent on supply diameter and flow rate. So FL may not be a big deal if you're supplying a single line fire but may become a big deal if you get into master stream territory.
Gate valve should be on the side where other trucks are coming in, correct?
in our opinion it doesn't necessarily matter. It could depend on a few factors. Our general preference is to put gates on both side outlets when possible.
If the first arriving is a ladder truck, don’t they risk running out of water if they don’t connect to the hydrant?
short answer is sure. There are a lot of factors to consider. Our "ladders" have 500 gallon tanks same as our engines. Water supply, apparatus spec, response times of other apparatus all come into play for sure.
In what world does the second “engine “ dump their tank water to supply the attack engine? Without an established direct hydrant supply an interior crew could get in trouble if the second engine can’t get enough water to the attack crew.
With an initial attack flow rate of 160 gpm, you have roughly 374 seconds of continuous flow using solely tank water from the first two apparatus, assuming you have 500 gallon tanks, and you have 1000 gallons of water to utilize before more water is required. With 750 gallon tanks, you have over 560 seconds of continuous flow capability, and 1500 gallons of water immediately on-hand. This method is a derivative of the booster back-up method of water delivery (which officially assigns third-due to permanent water supply establishment). This works best in jurisdictions with 2nd and 3rd arriving companies that typically arrive in less than 3-5 minutes from the 1st arriving. For more detailed info on these concepts, visit:
www.firehouse.com/operations-training/article/21217485/command-control-success-people-before-water
countyfiretactics.com/category/engine-company/booster-back-up/
countyfiretactics.com/2018/11/10/booster-back-up-3rd-due-for-supply/
@@TheWoodlandsFireTraining just curious if you lay 500' of 5" supply line, how much water does it take to just fill the supply line?
I agree!! I don't care what his math says
I was thinking about the same thing. But my Station only runs a two man duty crew. If they us a "front-load" then they are depending on another engine or Station to come along and connect. Even in the case of calling a Mutual Aid right at the same time as their Size Up, the next Responding Company may be more that 10 plus minutes behind. Our guys will be out of water long before that!
In there world. It works for them.
Are you guys rocking all Quints?
No sir. We have four front-line and one reserve quint out of nine total companies. One operates primarily as a truck but does have a pump and water also. Each is different. We have a 107' TDA, a 107' rear mount stick, a 100' mid mount platform, a 75' rear mount stick and a 100' rear mount platform in reserve. The other five companies have engines.
Hook ups
Feel like this is the slowest process I have ever watched
Oh tell me how we could go faster please! To me, it sounds like you probably don't do anything fire service related but want to have an opinion like you're a pro. Do you realize that ladder truck has 500 gallons of water inside it? That's about 2 ½ minutes of water. I believe my fastest is a little over 1 minute from exiting the truck to being ready to flow water.
Another perfectly good ladder ruined by putting pump on it
Well most places aren't like NYC. We don't have a massive amount of resources at hand. Small towns don't have the funding, employees, or call volume to support having just an ladder. You clearly don't work in the fire service so I'm assuming you're just uneducated on this topic. Fire apparatus aren't supposed to be cute or pretty, they are tools and nothing more.
Why are we opening hydrants like it's 1950? Someone needs to design a battery powered, heavy duty device, much like an impact wrench, to open hydrants in a few seconds. Any entrepreneurs out there?
Good morning idea I think
if an excited "firefighter" can open a hydrant fast , he will also shut it fast -
You get water hammer when you open or shut nozzles to fast, it can mess up the pump.
Sometimes it is necessary to open a hydrant slowly to prevent rupturing a water main depending on the infrasturcture in your area.
American System is awkward like hell😅
In what world would you tie up a ladder truck picking up somebody's supply line?
And why is there a pump on the ladder truck? Real ladder trucks don't have pumps. Real ladder trucks bend in the middle.
Almost all ladder trucks have water storage and water pumps. Often than not we buy quints which have Aerial Ladders, Ground Ladders, Hose, Water, and a Pump. Firetrucks often times do not bend in the middle making it more difficult to back out of tight areas. Usually it is the Engines responsibility for water suppression but if there are none available or it is needed on a different part of the foregrounds you may very well supply with a ladder truck. If you have a forest fire that has lit up 13 houses the goal at that point is just getting water on the fire, there would not be any search and rescue operation due to the extreme IDLH environments.
Quints are basically Non Binary ... LOL
It’s call a quint. For small departments like mine it’s a plus to have that kind of truck. But most of the time we use our engine.
They are probably using their truck to not tie up the engine. These guys could be on their day off making this video. So the on duty engine crew can stay available to respond to calls. Also, when you say bend in the middle, are you referring to Tillers? Los Angeles County FD has tillers! Oh, but they are also Quints. So do those count as real ladder trucks? 🤔
Loved to see you extinguishes a fully involved fire house with your can. It’s always funny to see a full crew of Truckie on a roof of a fully ventilated house fire…. Until you see one of them disappear cause the roof collapse… and a rescue or engine crew has to go save his ass!