Destiny 2 Lore - After Final Shape who replaces The Witness? Power Vacuums and the future of Destiny
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 05. 2024
- Check out Starforge and grab yourself a new gaming setup today: starforgepc.com/MynameisByf Destiny 2’s Lore and story point to the obvious conflict with The Witness in the Final Shape. It also points to the potential power vacuums afterwards with The Witness’s Defeat. Today we’ll be covering those power vacuums and seeing who is likely to rise to fill the void left by the Witness.
Subscribe to My name is Byf: czcams.com/users/subscription_c...
Support my lore content on Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?ty=h&u=2...
Check out my channel: / mynameisbyf
Follow me on Twitter: / mynameisbyf - Hry
I think Taniks will take over the power vacuum
Not the Stalin lovers 😢
Who?
I both love and hate that this is a very real possibility
Riding one of the worm gods?
We’ve killed him so many times over destiny 1 - destiny 2 and I swear the traveler slipped him a ghost while we weren’t looking.
The non-zero chance that Kelgorath rises to power scares me on a narrative level
Kelgorath bros about to feast
@@xadiret8452it would be funny if Kelgorath surpasses Xivu
Not gonna lie I’d love if Kelgorath is just that guy who never gives up and does become the best no matter how hard we try tbh I’d love that there’s an enemy who refuses to stay down and then starts making good arguments against us while rallying forces
@@peterdubinsky5389 Kelgorath is beginning to get real, like him somehow being capable of FCKING WIELDING HIMSELF, him now being a taken but still maybe retaining his "self".
We need Taniks and Kelgorath to go to War. They would never truly die.
Randall the Vandal is gonna make a comeback for sure!
Hopefully nothing replaces the witness. You can tell a continuing story without needing a figurehead antagonist on the level of the witness. I’d much prefer they focus their story on drama between our existing characters than try to force another big bad evil entity. What’s a victory worth if it is immediately undermined?
I want a civil war in the city that'd be so cool
I completely agree. The Yet Bigger Death Star has proven not to be effective, just frustrating at best
I dont think what you said makes sense lore wise no other antagonist is as big as the witness and in sol there will be almost always be someone trying to rule it. Same thing in real life it wouldnt make sense to have none of these power hungry species not try and take over and everyone needs a leader thats why armys have generals and countrys have presidents or rulers just because a president dies or dictator dies does that mean its forced to have another one?
@@GKelpy The point of beating the witness is the guardians become the ruling force in the Sol system. It is not uncommon in war for a movement to fall apart after their figurehead is killed or defeated. Sure, it doesn't all come to a complete stop, but what's left becomes fractured and disorganised until they just kinda give up. This is how wars end. No one wants to fight just to keep losing.
And on a more important note... It's just boring to keep making up bigger badder things to kill. It creates a never ending treadmill of problems that halt the sense of narrative progression. As long as destiny has been around, guardians have been fighting back the darkness to take back the Sol system. It would be nice if that actually happened. Otherwise what's the point in having a story if it never moves forward?
I agree with this. The thing to remember is that we didn’t even know of The Witness until Witch Queen. Of course there was “The Darkness”, but until Witch Queen we’ve basically had a continuous series of smaller figurehead antagonists rather than one big bad. Granted two of those were Savathun and Oryx, two of the most powerful beings in the universe, but the rest have basically been a series of fairly mundane, mortal enemies. There’s no reason we can’t go back to that.
If the universe is always in existential peril, it’s never in existential peril.
It would be nice to fight against "evil Guardians", those who have been corrupted by the Darkness. They exist in the lore, but we never met one in the game
It seems like it would be pretty hard to code that. It would be like an AI crucible, right? Unless the enemy guardians transform into big bosses for final fights.
@@ClaraDunn-rf4pf Savathun and the Hive lightbearers are a good example of how it could be done. The difference is that they would be human/exo/awoken and perhaps be able to use any subclass and perhaps some exotics. It would be kind of similar to AI Crucible, but with changes. I don't know how to code, but I guess it's possible, since they did something similar with the Lucent Hive.
dumb idea. we dont need warlords v2
@AnyOther-Name powerful guardians will be all that's left after the witness get clapped
That would change the game’s rating, which means it’s almost definitely never going to happen
After we kill The Witness their master “The Fitness,” will show up. We now have to fight stupid sexy Fitness who is voiced by Markiplier.
Ah so that's what Black Hot has been doing.
Bhulk, The First Disciple
Not gonna lie, that be pretty sweet 😂
The Witness but Dummy Thicc.
They could rule the universe.
The swolness
now we have 3 stuck ships in Sol, the Dreadnaught, the Leviathan, and the...whatever Calus's ship parked ON Neomuna is called, meanwhile Failsafe is like "at least you guys haven't been stuck since the collapse"
Mannnnn, I wanted her to be my ghost. Imagine having a borderlands character as your buddy.
The Typhon Imperator
I remember making a similar observation a few years back haha. Think it was just before the time Rasputin shot down The Almighty which was also just kinda hanging out there before they sent it plummeting towards Earth lol. Had the distinct impression that we were starting to accumulate random ships just littering the system.
The Vex make the most immediate ssense. We still haven't dealt with a Vex combat unit, iirc - all have been custodian units. There's so much meat left on that temporal bone
I believe that Wyverns are actually true combat units
@@gavinhendricks8689 What he means is a true military force as a whole. But yes, you are right the Wyverns are combat units.
@@gibster9624and not even the scary ones
Who are the vex? Aren’t they those metal guys who are randomly thrown into season and dlc with little to no story reason? The same guys with a really distinct art style for their architecture, terraformed entire worlds, who now are more synthwave tron people?
Ah sorry the vex have always been my favorite faction but it’s so depressing to see them just kinda exist to throw some variation into a season and have never had a true focus placed on them. My worst fear is that will happen after Final Shape which personally I’m not going to be playing
The vex suddenly becoming the main villains is laughable. They of all races should have a major role in the LvD saga due to the Sol divisions lore on the Gardner and widower plus they were the last enemies we fought at the end of D1's campaign. Making them just randomly appear to fight us with no real story significance and then suddenly making them the main villains is poor writing.
Somewhere in a bungie storyboard room, the sound of madly scribbling pencils can be heard.
We have a spy in the lines
Lol, scribbling by who? Aint nobody left
Nezarec should try after the raid. Makes sense since he never truly dies.
He might also have things to do with psions uprising, they kinda have shared history
@@nankaq9909if he’s one of the bosses in the raid then maybe he’ll try and take over the Monolith with pure psychic powers, and remember he commands the Nightmares too
Nun of them truly die death I’d irrelevant when u scale above it
I do hope we see more of Nezarec. I'm wondering if he'll ever get his OG body back... lol. To be honest, I was not too psyched with the design we got in Root of Nightmares. It wasn't... horrible, y'know, but there were more than a few times when I'd look at him running around our DPS plate and couldn't help but think that he legit looked like some kinda chicken or a fat dude in a red jumpsuit. His is a character that had a lot of speculation built around him over the years. Heck I remember people theorycrafting about him since vanilla D2. Over the years we had a few hints here and there, very ominous stuff, but nothing huge until close to Lightfall and we gathered some of his body parts n everything... So I figured, if he did show up, he'd be a tad more intimidating... lol.
Toland when the Witness dies: “It’s free real estate 🤷♂️.”
It’ll be Telesto obviously
Ah yes the all mighty telesto we got to be careful and not make it mad or it will break all of destiny forever
Toland taking over Xivu's now vacant throne world is an interesting idea. I was following him around in the Ascendant plane the other day, and he made a comment that he killed his own ghost. While Toland hasn't been overtly hostile against us, he certainly hasn't friendly and we know he really hates our rejection of the throne. Toland's title of "the Shattered" is oddly poetic with the fact he was the first to know about the Lunar Pyramid... which taught Eris how to use Stasis... The mad wizard learning to use stasis and falling to darkness is right in line with the final shape: a synthesis of Light and Dark. One might call it.. a season of Heresy?
I could see Toland learning to wield Stasis, and whatever the final, third darkness power will be. Not Strand, as it requires one to relinquish control and let ones will flow freely, without worry, and see the connectivity between themselves, and others. Toland wouldn’t subscribe to such views. So he could become a Hive God that would wield Stasis, Hive magic, and whatever the final darkness element may be. The Worm Gods would be looking to a new god they can count on to protect them, empower them, and act in their behalf. They may have begun to lose faith in Xivu, while Savathun is a heretic. The Worms could be desperate enough to reform his body and soul, and make him a Hive god that takes over Xivu’s Throneworld after we slay her, and kill off most of her forces on Torrobaital. The only question left is, what god would he be? I doubt a Hive god of war. Doesn’t seem like Toland’s style. Perhaps a Hive God of Chaos? Toland was mad, and chaos and madness often coincide.
@@garrettviewegh9028 In the lore we've seen Toland referred to as both a Void Walker, and a Sunsinger; combine that with his apparent mastery of death, and assuming he learned Stasis on Luna before his death... He'd be pretty far along on mastering many of the elements. In several lore tabs Eris is pretty angry that Toland never told anyone about the Lunar Pyramid cause he had to have known before he led them down into the pit. I've had a theory for a while based on the lore of the Deathsingers and Toland that long story short, I think the death song is used to "take" things by ripping their souls out of them. I think Toland "Took" himself as part of his obsession with knowledge. The death song lyrics in their few instances in lore all include the names of the Worm Gods, like it's a sacrificial mechanism. What greater act of 'Stasis born control' could there be than taking your own soul? He's been very upfront that he's using us for some purpose and leading us to slaughter like a lamb, but... the proverbial slaughter keeps not happening... unless we're not strong enough yet for him to outlast us and prove his superiority, in much the same way Eris took Savathun's power. I agree Stand isn't in keeping with his character, but Void+Solar+Stasis+SoulFire= Profit? Most of Toland's rants end up being annoyed that people don't understand the ontological truth about the universe that "Things of higher stability survive than their lower stability counterparts." It's the same concept as Evolution by Natural selection, and close but not the same as Sword Logic. It might seem an academic dispute, but sword logic requires killing; outlasting the other party because you're just that much better than them that you don't need to kill them is...elegant.
A soul that exists because it defined itself to exist is a pretty elegant para-causal tautology to circumvent that whole pesky natural world, and right in line with what the forger of the Bad Juju would find hilarious.
I love the way Byf describes this power vacuum, and its potential factions that could fill it to oppose us and the Coalition. It’s like one big, galaxy-wide chess game. With the mention of rescources left unkecked, I can’t help but wonder if the Warsats will come back into play for the Coalition to use them as a type of security system to fortify Earth, Neomuna, and the Reef? Somewhere in the lore, it’s mentioned that the facility that manufactures the Warsats, still exists on Mars. Rasputin can’t be recovered, but if there is a way to build up the Warsat network again, it would prove useful for the security and defense of the Coalition. Though, it would possibly take our best engineers, Ana, Elizabeth, and others, many years to build it back from the ground up, and put it back online. One advantage to this, is that Xivu and what remains of House Salvation, would have a much lower chance of using the Warsats against us.
It'd also be funny if Banshee just woke up on a random tuesday remembering some access code to a backup warmind that he kept in case Rasputin failed
There is something about Rasputins code being inside the dog we found
@@nankaq9909I don’t know if Rasputin would’ve planned that far ahead. But he did make protocols and contingency plans. Maybe he made one for us to rebuild the Warsats after his death? He can process information and make calculations in nanoseconds, so it’s not too far fetch’d to imagine he’d made blueprints and instructions left for Ana to find, in his last days alive. But yeah, considering how Banshee remembers and forgets stuff, it’d be a funny coincidence.
I love this idea. We could build a new Warmind. It wouldn't be as powerful as Rasputin but it'd definetly serve well as surveilance and early warning system at least. I propose we name it "Fellwinter" after Rasputin's son.
and the guardians will have only one question... can we make a weapon out of The Witness and use it on whomever takes over?
It's a sidearm that fires rockets
Tankis, The Machine God.
In all seriousness, I kinda want the Taken to just die off. Treat them like the Flood from Halo after it fires: still present, but starving to death with no way of making more of themselves. The blight they’ve left on the universe remains, but they are leaderless and feral.
You forgot about the Drifter. He can be the new Taken King too....
"That's a gambit the Nine would have to foot the bill for and I doubt they would willingly give up that kind of power"- My Hunter
It sounds crazy but I think the drifter works for the pyramid fleet and he is playing two sides of the war or the nine are working with him who work for the witness I think he is an outright traitor without showing it
Perhaps the Vex, upon seeing their simulations fail to predict our victory, will try to bind themselves to the light, like they did with the dark, and create so thing new. Maybe not a new villain, but they might create a new faction
Pragmatic allied vex under the passive suggestion of Asher maybe?
@@iamoctonatepretty sure Asher was erased in a lore tab after the Vexcaliber mission. Might have misread/misremembered it though
@@NightshadeDE Misraaks said he went into the vex nexus and said Asher likely would make it but Asher is probably still around.
I was re-playing a witch queen mission, and it reminded me of one of the two truths and two lies from Savithick. One of the options is that our destiny lies outside of Sol. That got me thinking about what comes after the light and dark saga, and I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch that something calls us to outside of Sol. This gives Bungie leeway to make all new worlds with all new powers and abilities available. New enemies, new allies, and new dilemmas. Makes sense to me, but I’m not an expert on lore 🤷🏻♂️
It feels like Bungie wrote themselves into a corner. The Witness is the most powerful being in the Destiny Universe, and when we kill it, wouldn’t that make us the most powerful? All story stakes after TFS mean nothing to me if we actually kill the Witness in the next expansion.
Idk if it's even possible to kill condensed spirits into one person
We never grow in power as guardians really thats how we can go from killing Oryx and still having trouble with people like Eramis y'know? Our power really is just prep time and exploiting weaknesses rather than just being uber powerful I mean we are powerful but we aren't like Oryx or Xivu casually shitting on planets.
My guess is that the raid will involve us shattering the Witness' component souls back into the aether. Darkness and Light are re-released into the universe instead of being concentrated in to two entities, and now we have to deal with all the smaller factions that want to take advantage of that. Use all the characters we have to build up new smaller-scale but still important threats.
Crow finds out the Sol Divisive are using the energy bursts to try and create a new Black Garden. Clovis Bray's head creates a plan to use the Darkness and Radiolara to copy himself to all the Exos so we need to help Ana and Elsie to stop him. Eramis and Misraaks find a lost colony of Eliksni who had isolated themselves on Pluto worshipping a Darkness artifact that's been reactivated.
Not exactly after all it takes 6 guardians to fight a raid boss. But there are other things out there in the universe. The witness is the strongest but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t other contenders out there.
This can be fixed with one simple solution: un-retconning the Gardener and Winnower.
My guess would be that after we defeat the witness, he splits back into a Contorted, twisted and warped version of his race. I mean, just look at some of the old "Veil" faction concept art and you'll see what I mean.
If i Remember correctly, when they revealed TFS It was said that we'll face the witness in the raid and "that may not be enough", id love another race but Hey Who knows, its Bungie, its a Coin flip
I don’t know if the Witness is a shell or husk for the entire species surely destroying the physical shell would destroy them. If not why would they need a physical shell in first place, they could just float about as some ethereal cloud.
My problem is that once we kill the Witness who is essentially the most powerful being in the universe, nothing that Bungie sets up will seem like a threat. Bro can Thanos snap guardians into pieces, he’s the source of the Taken, and he’s the literal embodiment of an entire civilization of darkness worshipping cultists. If we can take him… any other big bad won’t seem threatening to me.
There is speculation that the ahkmakara (probably butchered that) are coming back which could be just as big a threat
The Dragonslayers lore book mentions visions of a new Torabotl and a betrayal amongst Caiatl's forces. I could see a new group of cabal forming from this betrayal after TFS.
The focus will probably be on the Vex and I bet u they’re going to suddenly make some Vex that can indeed communicate in a manner we can understand. They’re the only faction that hasn’t been focused on in a proper story format, it’s just us killing them without really learning anything new about them and how they function. Plus they make the most sense being the strongest non paracausal faction that could rival the hive makes sense to focus on after a saga of light and dark has just finished
I hope so. Tne Nine kidnapped a human to communicate for them, I believe Vex are more than capable of finding such metodes, if they need
I honestly hope we see a lot out of Fikrul. He’s so fucking cool in my opinion, dude is like the Night King.
Night King? Is he from Game of Thrones? Or WoW?
I would say the possible next big bad is going to be one of the Nine, the Awoken overlords in the Distributary, etc..
the nine are not related to the awoken nor related to the Distributary, the Nine have their own metaphysical thought realm and are infact strings of primordial dark matter that thread throughout the solar system each being a representation of the major celestial bodies of the solar system. the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune and Uranus.
strictly speaking Mara has had dealings with the Nine through Orin and Xur in regard to Skolas, the Rabid
@@fangslore9988 i did not say they are related to the Awokrn, I was talking Bout the Awoken overlords that were left behind in the Distributary
@@MW2proification the distributary is sealed from the parent uiniverse the guardian lives in, it was only Mara who was able to bring back her loyal awoken from the distributary other awoken don't have that power, her exposure to light and dark has gifted her with amazing and powerful paracausle abilities as she is the first awoken and the one who remade all the others on her ship into awoken when they reached the distributary, and remember she created the distributary from the chaos of light and dark. and there are no awoken overlords the awoken in the distributary are led by Mara's mother
My guess is they’re going to focus on Xivu Arath as a new main antagonist and maybe introduce a new Vex enemy.
One interesting idea for the Vex, especially the Sol Divisive, would be if they would consider joining/following the Light. They tasted what worship can achieve, and as you say, they could choose to abandon the Witness and what it represented.
And with that logic, then why not try to now join the force that defeated the Witness? The forces of the Light would have proven to be stronger, and maybe the Vex could calculate now a path where they integrate with the Light instead, ensuring their survival by stopping being our enemies? Could be an interesting path for them (and would give a nice, ironic, new meaning to the Sol Divisive, if we assume that we are part of a "Sol Coalicion" xDDD)
I could see lucent hive trading light with the worshipping vex in order to achieve a greater goal, which might lead to vex getting a bit more access to the light than it's safe for the entire universe
The Vex hate anyone who isn’t them. That’s why they terraform everything into cubes. They followed the Witness because Vex are the best contenders in a Dark world. They’ll do the same with Light. They were able to kill Saint, they might do another light draining mind.
They'd probably be called the Sol Ascendance and be lead by Asher.
Personally, I think nothing would be more powerful than the remaining worm gods. I hope we see more of them. How crazy would it be if they actually helped us in some way against the witness in order to avenge Xita. Or once the witness is defeated they come to our system to get the hive in order and to punish Savathun. Ever since we heard them roar in the final mission of the season of the lost, I've wanted to see more.
Never considered them much of a threat, but now that I think about it, any Psions of the Conclave could be a problem for us. Besides they’re psychic abilities, and ability to look into the past and future, those that aren’t loyal to Nezarec could utilize the Veil, Vex, or Pyramid technology to become a grave threat if they can predict our moves against them. Especially if some are among Caital’s ranks.
Imagine that the Vex Divisive just switch over to worshipping the Traveller or the Guardian when we kill the Witness
Loved the old gameplay with this video! Lots of good memories!
My theory is that with the episodes we’re gonna be tieing the loose ends together eg xivu arath the scorn and the lucent hive and then after that the nine are gonna become the main villain but idk
I'm unironically a fan of this idea, but imagine this:
The major villians in Destiny's franchise:
- A civilization merged into entity, seeking purpouse in this world and seeing it in ending all changes in the world
- A horse(?)
The Vex have always been a mystery to me, I love the Black Garden and always considered it to be a liminal space. Also something so eerie but satisfying are the Descendant Vex, they are so old and come from the far future, what are they doing, what have they achieved? Yes here we are understanding the Vex, definitely my most mysterious yet intriguing faction
If a subdivision of Vex can have faith in the Witness what is preventing the Sol Divisive or another bracket to point their reverence at a user of the Light? What's stopping a Guardian from replacing the Witness after it's death in the eyes of the Sol Divisive?
I think giving the Eliksni to Mithrax as the defacto leader since Eremis left the system is a bit odd. If anything I'd think if Eremis was still in the system it would further improve Mithrax's ability to assume the mantle of Kell of Kells. Eremis and Mithrax were building an understanding at the end of their last encounter espcially with Eido as the intermediary.
Now that Eremis is gone that leaves only one Kell level player left for Spider to usurp. Spider has a hand in multiple houses and built many schemes up to this point to ensure his safety from other races. If there's 3 characters that the destiny universe should be scared of its Savathun, Mara Sov, and Spider. All capable of elaborate planning, playing the long game, and spinning opportunity into personal gain. Even when you think your objectives align with theirs it most likely has 2-3 more layers that they're playing at simultaneously.
The Winnower, he definitely exists outside of unveiling, Eris has dialogue mentioning him, and Saint 14 has a dream where he is mentioned by the gardener
Agreed. Once we found out the Witness wasn’t a primordial being I surmised Bungo opened a window to write some primordial/elder god/s into the lore
@@ILUVsSUNDROP There’s some Final Shape collectors edition lore where Misrax’s daughter Eido observes a conversation that took place before the Witness was formed by a faction called the Consensus, that is separate from the Witnesses
The Winnower is a concept invented by the Witness's people that they desired & would embody the concept once they became the Witness, & Eris (in Arrivals) treats them as the same, as do others. Even if "the Winnower" is a separate Entity (an Entity at all) it doesn't make sense for it to show up when the Light & Dark saga is over
@@BrazarBthe Light and Dark come from one reality level above us, Unveiling doesn't disprove that
@@BrazarB Not true, nowhere is the Winnower stated to be a concept created by the pyramid race. Mara Sov, Saint 14, and Eris morn (in her hive form), all tell of the Winnower on their independent discovery in conversations not speaking about the Witness race, Mara says her father is the darkness, In Saint’s dream his mother(Gardener) says his violent nature comes from his father (the creator of the sword logic), and Eris after engaging heavily in the sword logic can hear a voice in the deep, that isn’t the Witness otherwise she would have pointed it out, so the Winnower is eluded to on his own, separate from the Witness race.
As for the next saga, the Gardener might die in the Final Shape as Imaru can hear her screams, and we can hear them in Garden of Salvation’s mini clarity statue, the Witness will probably kill her, or we might? leaving the Winnower to gain supreme control over the universe
The Sol Divisive Vex if they can utilize Darkness could use this to take possession of the Taken who are now leaderless.
Honestly if the Sol Divisive made the calculation to trust a paracausal power once whos to say they wont do it again? What if they straight up just switch to the light as the greatest unknowable power to bind themselves to? Just a thought
what about drifter and the taken he uses in gambit and sometimes as even security on his ship? or were those the ones you mentioned with the nine
I remember you mentioning a while ago go a conversation between the Witness and an unknown disciple. The disciple was unsure of what the final shape was and they discussed how each (known) disciple went about assisting in the Witness’s plans. I think they might end up making an appearance.
I meant to ask you a few things while I was GCX last year and came to listen to your panel. I didn’t around to doing it obviously. However, could you possible make a video going over your speculation on how Cayde actually returns inside the traveler? Because in the teaser trailer a while back he seemed to not know where he was and how he got there as if all he remembers is everything to the point where he died and nothing else. Also how does he retain his memories? I feel like this could be a good and out of the box video idea on how crow could play a part in it and since the traveler reacts to people past and how it saw things idk maybe worth exploring and working out that big ole destiny brain you got. Thanks! Hope you see this comment! Hope to see you this year at GCX!
I think the Nine and the Awoken in the Distributory are also worthy wildcards.
Vex. They're happily waiting for us to take each other out and once we do? They will finally arrive in full force.
One neat idea for a enemy faction could be a counter coalition that stands against the city. It can comprimise of Erimas House Salvation, the psion rebels taking control of the shadow legion, and if bungie really wants to make things interesting the exiled factions lead by lysandre.
This might, suprisingly, turn out to be more interesting than wars of numerous tractions
As always. Well Done and keep it up Byf! What if?..... the taken, leader less, search for a new leader.... and whi would they choose or who would assert?
My bet is on the Nine, I'm sure their attention will no longer be needed elsewhere when there's an army for adoption in sol
not really anything to do with lore but I would love new enemy races that are tied to the subclass like a race of stasis wielder who take increased dmg from solar and arc dmg and take reduced dmg from stasis and need like 200 slow stack to be frozen, since im guessing after the witness the light (and darkness) can be shared with everyone and everyone is able to access and wield it (obviously after some hardworking and dedication. it would be a nice way of tying the surges into the story of the game.
Honestly, it wouldn't be much of a "power vacuum" imo, because the witness hasn't done anything. He hasn't done anything to the last city, and he hasn't taken out anyone we care about. Besides helping the traveler, which isn't really all that loyal to use anyway, there no reason to fight him except for self preservation. So unless the witness really brings the pain next season, it won't matter who takes over, because the witness never set a high bar to begin with. If hurting the traveler is all he's got, then he's no better that ghaul, or Rasputin.
"No reason to fight him except for self-preservation."
...?
Are you just ignoring the part where the Final Shape will erase everything the Witness deems to not have a purpose in its designs?
Here what that sounds like: " The big bad has not done anything to ME, personally. Why should I stop him from rewriting reality in its image?"
@@Catalyst375 I hear you, but not quite what I mean. When I say "he hasn't done anything," I'm referring to the witness as a character, and his reputation as a villain. Think of Negan from the walking dead. One of the greatest villains in the series, imo. But that was because of the build-up of everything he did before the final fight. The witness just doesn't come of as that big of a threat. It didn't have to be "personal," just impactful. Something to make fans WANT to see him get beaten.
And yes, "self-preservation." Preservation for themselves, their friends, families, homes, and way of life. Rather than just submitting to what the witness wants. The same goes for the awoken, cabal, and eliksni. Zavala, and many others have lost faith, and stopped relying solely on the traveler. Especially since many of them lost people they care about, and it did nothing in response. So why would anyone fight for it now?
Id love it if we became buddies with the soul divisive vex, without the witness, it kinda makes sense theyd try to connect themselves to the new most powerful paracausal force there is, us/the traveler (if it survives the dlc/if its even alive now??) especially with asher running around in the vex systems, he could play a heavy role in "persuading" them acting as a go-between between us and them.
... and then they'd backstab us as soon as they gather enough data on the light to effectively destroy it
There is yet the possibility that (somehow) as a result of the Winess's demise.....Oryx will rise again.
I'd really like it if the next saga was essentially all about this, new threats and old coming out of the wood works to fill up the power vacuum fighting each other to gain it. In Echoes, maybe a full-blown Vex invasion with actual war units coming in now that the big dog witness is gone, In Revenant Fikrul maybe uniting the scorn and attempting to take over the taken. Maybe in Heresy Xivu Arath actually commits heresy to possibly become more in tuned with darkness.
Maybe. Maybe Bungie has Guardians fighting new and old threats that try to claim this power vacuum. But, it also feels like we may explore worlds beyond Sol as well. Whatever threats and challenges we face after the Final Shape, this new saga would be the perfect excuse for Bungie to go beyond Sol, and see just what new threats await us, and what worlds ravaged by the Hive, lie in wait.
@@garrettviewegh9028 see that and what I purposed goes hand in hand, there's so much potential with a darkness civil war and plenty to explore.
Ruins of torobatl and maybe a source of the vex, so on
Don't forget, Drifter has exerted a limited amount of control over the Taken as well, not particularly well as shown in how that cutscene played out, but he will only get better.
Could be Xivu Arath? If she can't access her own realm, she may try to take the witnesses spot in the darkness hierarchy
Savathun only has to unalive Xivu to take nearly all her brood. Only her love will cause her pause.
Can you do a video of what happens if he's defeated Mara with or without taken end up backstabbing us and what that means and the possibility of if it's possible with wish magic to make a ghost invincible (crow)
One question ive had since witch queen is if races like the vex could be chosen by a ghost and what that could mean for the future of the light
For Scorn, there is scope for the return of Caretaker, given that Fikrul resurrects him for some reason (such as accumulating power vacuum of the Witness. In this scenario, Fikrul "puppeteers" Caretaker to control pyramid artifacts and to gain knowledge of Witness).
For Vex, in Curse of Osiris expansion we learned that whatever data is generated in Infinity forest is stored in Pyramidion. Martyrmind creation and demise is possibly recorded in Pyramidion database. The data stored in Pyramidion is possibly relayed to Vex home planet where the assimilation of this data might create an army to take out Guardians for a favorable choice of their objective.
I would just like them to make smaller self contained stories, that explore mysteries of the dark age or long lost civilization and deepen the worldbuilding and intrigue of the destiny world.
Put in some development for existing characters.
Similar to Warlords Ruin, Grasp of avarice, Praedyth's fate back in D1 or Presage for example.
You arrive after the fact and learn piece by piece what happened.
Maybe I also just like playing demigod detective idk.
I think another major force that could fill the power vacuum left behind by the Witness would be the reemergence of the Ahamkara, especially if Riven's children take more after Riven than Taranis in sowing chaos throughout the system, the kind of paracausal chaos that the Witness was specifically looking to outlaw in its Final Shape for the universe. If you kill the thing that represents Order and Finality, all that's left is unfettered Chaos and struggle. If there is to be a Second Great Hunt, it will likely play out different from the first with its own unique challenges affecting everyone in the system.
What about the Neomuni, the Praxic Order, Braytech, the Shadows of Yor, or the Remnants of the old City factions? A good way to have a season(or episode, I guess) focused on Ritual Activities. Like it or not humanity(or even the guardians) isn't nearly as unified as we would like. Rallying the disparate forces under our banner could be a justification, or at least to build good will toward the Vanguard.
I still think there are ppl like the exo stranger that needs to be factored in.. she could still be leaving out crucial details purposefully on the dark future. We still don't know what killed the drifters team and praedyth and the rest of that team could destroy us all I think..
RE: the Taken: don't forget Sloane. I don't know if she is strong enough (compared to Mara or Xivu) to command them, but she may yet play a role
RE: the Vex: don't rule out Asher Mir or Soteria
Re: the Psions: OXA / Taox is also still out there. Maybe not as a leader, but as a unifying ideal for some psions. And there may also still be remnants of the cult of Nezarec.....
I personally would like to see more Vex. There is still a lot going on with them, but I also feel like they could easily write new interesting things for them as well. That being said I would love more expansion on enemy types if possible, so any interesting new baddies are also welcome. Your point on the Scorn is also very interesting, I feel like they came and went in a way where we could see some more as well.
didnt oryx so easily entrench forces in the vault of glass because he did so canonically after the raid occurred and guardians eliminated most of their most potent security forces? Namely, guardians slew the axis minds of the templar and atheon, and perhaps even the gorgon weapons. apparently, the oracles could still be summoned without either axis mind's presence, since Skolas was able to draw them out during the Wolf Hunt, but the oracles typically needed the axis minds to act as triggers for their ontological payload.
10:45 I definitely think Toland is already a disciple of the Witness. I called it back when we found out about that unknown disciple at the start of Lightfall. The references to old literature clinches it for me
The death of the Witness would be the perfect opportunity for ol Drifter to pick up a few more Taken for a Gambit revamp.
There's another thing to take into account. The last city's (and the coalition by extension) losses in the fight against the witness. That in itself will allow the other groups to take power in a way they wouldn't have been able to otherwise.
Otzot is another interesting character that hasn't been mentioned much. I can see her possibly communicate with the vex. Just a thought that I have.
Isn’t she the leader of the psions and one of the conspirators who helped exile Calus?
Well besides the ones mentioned there’s a whole universe out there. It’s not liked the Witness and the disciples killed everyone out there, they had trouble fighting a few races. So there’s gotta be other races of various strength and power that we might have to fight for various reasons.
The Witness is the strongest but that doesn’t mean there aren’t other contenders out in the universe. Nezarec can’t completely die he might come back in some form. Some other disciple they might have taken longer to get to earth could show up.
With wish dragons reentering the frey, i could see them playing a huge role in the aiding of the next big baddie. Whether it be the Vex (imagine them calculating their wishes), the IX, the Psions, Mara, Eramis, the HIV.... whoever emerges will more than likely use the wish dragons to come to power
Think im more interested in how we defeat the witness, he is made of a species so if the raid is shattering its bonds that could also answer the power vacuum question with a fish out of water species ripe with potential commanding the black fleet as a race.
What about Crow? Remember the Telesto prediction from over 5 years ago. "CROW UNTRUSTWORTHY DESIRES POWER" and also similar messages in other languages of the game as well. Next time we see him he will have learned quite a bit about the Pale Heart of the Traveler and he might choose to not share all of it. So far I dont think he has been shown in any trailer of The Final Shape yet even though he has one of the most important jobs and according to the trailer will probably be successful in helping the rest of the vanguard reach the Pale Heart. Also whatever Mara saw after he got teleported she didnt share it with us. Riven also didnt trust her. Maybe they are planing something together and it requires Crow to gain some sort of power.
I believe he wasn't in the trailers because they were out before the season finale
@@nankaq9909 yeah you re probably right
Byf I thought Calus turned off his cloning machine during season of the Haunted?
Either way the Shadow Legion are described as having dead eyes and are soulless husks. They might be like the Taken.
I think vex will discover paracausality after we defeat Space Sukuna
Either nezarec or One of the Nine need to be the next villian, that would be the MOST SATISFYING and the most badass outcome
What about Clovis Bray 1? He built most of the Golden Age tech and knows its systems inside and out. He could break free and get revenge after what happened in Season of the Seraph.
Mr byf I have a question. I am 8 mins into your 3 pt ahamkara series so maybe im getting ahead of myself but if they need to feed of wishes and gain more from stronger will power, dpes this make them a sort of parasite? Is there lore to hint at a relationship between then? I dont have time for destiny unfortunately but I would love to know if this isnt answered in a previous video! Also if anyone know id love am explanation. Just seems like a super fun plot point to their orogins or something. Dragon parasites isnt something ive seen in fiction :)
I feel about the only person not mentioned that has as real aspirations and a lust for power would be Clovis. Tho he doesn't command an army or anything like that his methods are more like being a symbiote. Not Siva specifically but in a similar vein of how Siva was a threat with how powerful golden age tech even was. I don't think he'll come back as a central villain, at least not for a full on expansion but still be a strong plot device type of villain where he plays more of a puppet master or manipulator of some kind. But if there is a chance he could bring himself back to the flesh and be perfected I think he would reemerge as a direct threat to any conflict he my pose as an ally for. Whether to us or an enemy.
He could use certain resources, like the Vex, or Neomuna’s technology, to become greater than the machine god he’d envisioned himself as via Rasputin. Utilizing the darkness somehow, Clovis could command the Vex from inside the CloudArk. Then again, a contender to him, could be the rumored Vex AI copy of Maya Sundaresh, which could be stronger than Clovis. She’d have the Veil, a portion of the Vex, and maybe even the Taken, under her command. Keep in mind, this could end up being a copy of the Maya that went mad with obsession as Clovis did. Not the original Maya that was also mad, but went into the Vexnetwork.
Episode of Mad Golden Age Scientists?
i think there will be a other Kell for the Eliksni, maybe for the House of Salvation but as allies. it would be nice but i don't think Bungie is going to do more stuff with the Eliksni
They need you as a consultant at Bungie. Put all your content, just what I'm aware of, would make exceptional movies or media.
I'm really hoping it's not going to be a World of Warcraft situation with the Lich King's death, in the sense that "there must always be a Witness" type of deal.
i think the sol divisive could theoretically "recreate" the witness, if they could get their hands on the veil. i dont think it would be hard for an entire vex faction to simulate the civilization that the witness came from, and use the veil to bind them. its extremely unlike to work, but it IS possible
OMG, new big bad being Toland? That would be epic.
Toland for Prez too.
I know it’s basically guaranteed, but my brain keeps saying “what do you mean *when* we defeat the Witness?”
I think you take for granted the idea of a unified Guardian force in the future, several Lightbearer's may have... complicated relationships with the Vanguard following the Witness's demise.
Another set of characters that I think can take over maybe some of the taken are Eris or the Drifter. Like I can imagine the Drifter controlling the taken in order to survive after all he’ll do whatever it takes to survive. And I wonder if the Witness would be able to take over Eris and corrupt her back into her hive form.
If he hasn’t yet, Byf should make a video going over potential storylines in the new saga
Say it louder please, for ones in the back
My theory continues to be that TFS ends with the Witness being the tool of powerful ancient Ascendant Plane beings that were swept into and trapped in The Deep when the Traveler and Veil split. The Witness being tricked into thinking their actions would change the universe, but the Veiled Ahamkara who entered The Deep through the Veil after the split will use the event as the biggest feeding to open pathways to and from The Deep back into the universe. Taranis and Riven's clutch being raised and cared for by us will be pivotal in providing a necessary protection while we fight down the line, maybe even opening up the Distributary for Mara. Not knowing what happened to the Awoken after they came back to help humanity, it could turn out that civil war and Darkness influenced the Awoken within the Distributary and Mara is perceived as a heretic after hundreds/thousands of years when the truth was revealed that SHE was the first to Awaken, and SHE "robbed them" of the godhood they believed they could have obtained if not for her limiting them by giving them the form of the humanoid Awoken.
I could see the scattered exominds of Clovis Bray uniting and making a new faction to secure their desired godhood.
Honestly I rather have a moment we end up separating the species from the witness and have them as potential future enemies to fight and maybe later on recombine and have a future battle with the witness cause it has to have something similiar to a throne world can’t just die in one big battle.
Would be even cooler if the taken just dissolved after the witness goes down because no one could properly control them
Hey Byf I wanted to get your thoughts on something. Is Xivu locked out of the entire ascendant plane or just her throne world? Could she go to someone else’s throne or could she even create a new throne world? There may have been some lore that discussed this that I missed but either way I’m curious
+
What happens if we don’t win? what happens if everything ultimately fails “again”? What if in the final shape we get the final shape and echoes is something completely new within this final shape
Byf any possibility you can make more Warframe lore vids just got back into playing it, you’re the best CZcamsr for all things lore lol
By the Vex's cold calculus, if the Light defeats the Darkness, rather than continue to attempt to bind themselves to the Darkness, they will recognize the Light as ascendent, and attempt to bind itself to that instead.
Dont think we need a overarching villain at the top of a "pyramid"
Not immediately at least. Tell contained stories for a bit at first. Varying villains between them.
Also worth noting, we have no clue how many disciples are left and what their goals might become with the witness gone. A good team of writers and thinkers are practically given a blank slate to go and tell anything. Cant say im certain they will seize it though.
Good thorough presentation. Would be cool thematically to prevent/contend with the RISE of a villain. Also be very workable from a gameplay/scenario standpoint. You could do good long term mystery box storytelling and also uncouple our Guardian from being THE GUARDIAN but slowly reintroduce our importance via the 'Aspirant's (you can have that one for free) relationship to us.
I think having mulltiple threats as opposed to a singular entity is a powerful move, and will likely create a stronger narrative for the future of Destiny. These episodic themes are likely going to play an integral role in that multi-threat direction, meaning that perhaps we'll have to make some critical decisions in who we ally with, etc.
Tldr - We can beat our oldest enemy and we'll still be well and truly screwed in the aftermath. Saving the world does not equate to saving the realm.
Imagine we don’t actually beat the witness. He kicks our asses. Like in a raid. 1 guardian is disabled and bound or something. Making the raid actually hard