The Absurd Economics of Wish, AliExpress, and Temu
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
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Temu is everywhere, promising that you can shop like a billionaire buying $10 wireless speakers, $12 sneakers, $20 drones and other cheap gadgets, clothes, backed with the promise of free shipping, 90-day returns, 30-day price adjustments, and deliveries within 2 weeks. But Temu isn’t the first to sell generic, unbranded, mass-produced Chinese products online at radically low prices. Before Temu, there was AliExpress and Wish - who both went to market decades ago with the exact same value prop, unbelievably low prices, and wacky advertising.
Wish was the earliest entrant into this space and the SF-based startup was once one of Silicon Valley’s darling unicorns. It all begs the question - how exactly do these companies stay alive selling $5-10 items online? In this episode, we’ll cover the business of selling cheap Chinese-made junk online through the rise and fall of Wish, the persistence of AliExpress, and the sudden emergence of Temu - and how all of this ties back to greed, growth and Silicon Valley.
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0:00 The Dollar Store Platform
8:20 The Rise & Fall of Wish
16:32 Irresponsible Burn
30:50 Fool Me Three Times
Save time and money when you ship with Rollo. Use code MODERNMBA1 to get $10 off your first shipment. www.rollo.com/modernmba/
0:00 The Dollar Store Platform
8:20 The Rise & Fall of Wish
16:32 Irresponsible Burn
30:50 Fool Me Three Times
The problem with Uber Temu Wish Lyft Airbnb Shoppify they have few to no assets to back up any loans so without Venture Capital your are SOOL if anything goes wrong and they often spend any earnings if any as fast as it's made if not greater, you can still be held liable for injury damage etc in most countries since your site sold it even if you never actually had the product as you promoted and sold it
Nah. Forget this fad of sponsorships end running no ads.
Fools put a box for comments under the ad.
Puke on your sponsor.
Isn't this a conflict of interest?
that little label maker is north of 250 a piece. Elsewhere it’s north of 50. That website is fishy. Must create login to check price. Jeez Lois.
I used Rollo a few times and it was great. Used my own printer. Shipping was indeed super cheap. Sent fully built desktop computers to other states for under $15. Post office, UPS, and FedEx were upwards of $25. This was during COVID. Not sure how they operate now, but it was awesome back then.
It's terrifying to think that Amazon is seen as "high-end" e-commerce.
Why wouldn't they be? You can find the latest iPhone, high end electronics (consoles, computing, drones, tvs), tools, large appliances, furniture, food and household items all from the most reputable brands there in addition to the lower end stuff. It absolutely is a high end retailer.
Why is that terrifying? Amazon offers an excellent shopping experience. It cares about its reputation.
Amazon is not perfect by any means, it's definitely no saint (Sorry, Jeff), but it's a very good platform and attracts a lot of wealthy customers.
@@ronakparikh So... like a Walmart?
@@TheRealE.B. Walmart's website sells iPhones and other high end products since they are trying to compete with Amazon but I don't see anything like that in my local physical store.
@@TheRealE.B. no id say like target the more costly and classy walmart
It's worth noting that unless you really search a lot, Amazon also shows you the same cheap garbage that Aliexpress, Wish, and Temu do, but at a higher price.
Some Amazon sellers use Temu and Wish as a source for their inventory.
So they aren't actually catering to the poor so much as the lazy and stupid, and counting on them to be dumb enough to download a sus app. Gotcha.
That's what I was thinking. Amazon is slowly turning into a low end source of cheap junk too. The amount of cheap flea market type junk on Amazon is unreal.
Amazon’s decline began when it decided to become a platform for third-party sellers - in particular, when it began courting Chinese sellers. Cheap junk sold under gibberish brand names now dominates the search results in many categories, and Amazon is making it increasingly difficult for the consumer to identify the real seller. The reviews are often fake, and Amazon will often delete legitimate negative reviews if the seller contests them.
@@rising_crustIf you take a look a lot of those items are sold by third parties not Amazon and they happen to be the very same people selling the very same item for $1 on Amazon for $10
Any sales website that starts with a fake wheel of fortune discount is immediately rejected and closed by me.
FOR REAL. I know a few independent crafters trying to lure buyers with that tactic and it thankfully dies out fast.
But you prefer overpriced bitten apple logo for show-off ;)
@@DimitarBerberuhow did you come to that conclusion based on what they said?
@@briank.2650 Based on analysis & experience. I know how to avoid fake marketing, particularly from hypocrite iPhone$$$ Co ;)
imagine paying a $4 piece of low quality plastic in 4 bi-weekly payments with Klarna
💀💀💀
By the time you pay for it, it's in the trash. 😂
Fr. I hate klarna so much
Its gr8
@@WaffleSalad I've responsibly used pay-in-4 and set payment plans several times! That said, those purchases are rare, thought-out and generally something I'd need either way. Our new mattress is higher end because of one of these payment plans giving our budget more freedom.
I'm sure your criticisms are absolutely valid, though!
eBay and Etsy are almost as flooded by this stuff as Amazon at this point.
eBay always have been...They are kinda the first internet Marketsplace
I saw big red flags over 10 years ago especially on Ebay. I noticed a sudden and severe hate from chinese sellers especially, and they just became more and more shady. If they get enough bad reputation, they can simply close that account and open a new one, and I know that it sadly is common that they got lots of accounts at once as a safety net for doing bullshit business.
I hardly shop abroad anymore(especially not using these platforms but rather actual independant shops) because it's just frustration I'd rather be without.
eBay's saving grace is that it still offers the option to bid on/buy second hand products, and filter out "new" products.
I still wish it wasn't bombarded with cheap junk, though...
What you are seeing are the same sellers on all the different platforms... or folks just drop shipping from them
The thing that pees me off the most about eBay is that I always search by price, lowest to highest and filter U.K. only. I still get junk listed at 99p and as being from a U.K. seller but when you click on the item, 99p is for a cheap item not shown in the image and the delivery date is clearly the length of time it’d take to get here from China.
Even when I’m looking for a used item the same crap comes up so I have to scroll through tons of it to find something I’m actually looking for so the filters are pretty much useless in most cases 😡
I worked as a mailman when Wish became popular. It was insane, we had mountains of those freaking tiny grey packages. Some costumers had 30-40 Wish packages delivered every day, for months.
And it all probably ends up in landfill in less than 1 year.
Wish and Temu target the poor and or unintelligent consumers, not so ironically coinciding with each other. I'm baffled by people willing to spend good money on horrible Chinese junk because they think they are 'saving' money buying things they don't need which is nothing more than wasting money. The general public truly are daft. "Hey, check it out! I just bought 6 pieces of junk for only 24 bucks!"
That was me, sorry
@@funk0515what really gets me is something priced super cheap just for them to overcharge the shipping and basically demand the same amount of money in the end
It's ironic that rollo is sponsoring this because I've been in e-commerce logistics long enough to know it's just the same kind of business.
Nooo 😭😭😭😭 rollo different 😭😭😭😭 rollo 🦄 😭😭😭😂😂😂
@@internallyinteral rollo rollo relorelorelo
It took too long to see this comment. You are 1000% correct 😂😂😂
Came here for this comment. Like what???
Yeah, that was just, awkwardly borderline, if not an unethical conflict of interest
So funny... your next video should be on "The Crazy Economics of Rollo Shipping"
amazon has already become temu/wish/ali resellers except they mark it up 10x and add a silly brand name to it
And it always resembles a brand you vaguely know about
Main difference is with Amazon there's the option of higher quality versions of the same type of product so the consumer has a choice. The review system is much more thoroughly vetted so you know what you're buying since popular products usually have thousands of reviews. You also easily get refunds if the product doesn't fit the description
totally agree
@@snake1625b Amazon's review system thoroughly vetted? ROTFLMAO!!! 😂😂😂Cursory research will reveal countless instances of sellers paying their buyers for positive reviews. And in an unusual twist, there's the time of cutthroat 'seller wars' where at least one seller's personality did a real life doctor jekyll/mr hyde transformation and in a classic sociopathic manner began contacting the people who were buying products from his competition with literal 'bribe offers' to leave negative feedback. It was along the lines of: 'hey, if you wanna make a little extra money, I'm willing to pay and all you gotta' do is leave a negative review for that product you just bought. Easy peazy, nothing to it'. And for years now, the system has been gamed with deceptively hollow bs comments such as, 'Got it for my grandpa and he seems to be very pleased', and this confidence instilling mantra: 'Works great, very happy'. Back in the day the reviews were mostly legit, sure, but now, I wouldn't bet the farm on that conclusion.
The vendors have brand name generating bots, and automate setting up storefronts.
Got TEMU'd in the ads... classic. 😂
I think T* gave up on me. I haven’t clicked, mostly because I figured it was a Chinese surveillance tool. And I have enough cheap garbage I bought on impulse.
They are so annoyingly aggressive with their ads lately. No matter what I look for in Google, Temu comes in top, even for totally unrelated stuff.
Fun fact; the pricing system embodies by the UPU was the basis of Charles Ponzi's scheme. He sought to profit from the differing costs for stamps.
yeah we know
@@deljay1840NO WE DON'T
Fun fact, your usage of the semicolon is incorrect punctuation.
That's interesting.
Charles Ponzi also had a very unfortunate name for someone with a get rich quick scheme.
Fun fact, profiting from arbitrage isn't new or wrong.
Wish and Temu, one of billions of reasons why we all use adblock.
I got a temu ad before this video
@@lonyo5377Turn off the cookies. It helps so much
You seriously can't count to two? Damn.
labor exploitation and underpaying/overworking employees is also a part of those irresistibly low product prices (just a part that people dont generally enjoy talking about)
Not totally true, every country has underpaid and overworked employees. What sounds cheap to us isn't cheap in china, if £1 = 10 yuan, then £10 = 100 yuan, spend £200 on Temu and they are making 2000 yuan, on something that costs pennies to make. This why a lot of big companies manufacture in China, example Dyson.
Welcome to capitalism.
That's Amazon not wish
@@dc8836 are Uyghurs victims of capitalism too? Are labor camps in China capitalist?
@@whyamiwastingmytimeonthisIf they're used to generate profit yes. Nice whataboutism by the way.
"Disrupting tech startup"
"Poor unit economics"
"Cherry picked numbers"
"Pump and dump IPO"
Hmm.... now how could we have possibly seen this coming???
Murica baby 🇺🇸💪 fast money
@@duancoviero9759 USA USA USA
I love tech buzzwords like "disruption" 😂
Your girlfriend loves my Pump and Dump schemes.
Why do people always assume that Chinese workers are under paid. Now that may be true in some cases the same as it is for some workers in the EU, USA etc. Just because they are paid less than workers in your country does not mean they are automatically being exploited. It is normal that Chinese workers are provided with everything on site, food accommodation even clothing and usually annual travel allowances. What they earn they can bank. Unlike most countries Chinese migrant workers still have homes in their villages and if unemployed just go home and work the fields. What happens to the unemployed in Detroit? What percentage of their salary can the average western worker bank? What do you have to spend to just go to work?
And then, your next video you do an ad for Temu after calling their stuff junk. I’m dead 😂
Business ethics, my dude.
@@genghiskhan6688what are these "eth-ics" you speak of?
Man's gotta eat
On the grind 24/7
The ad on this video was shady as hell too
I don't mind aliexpress, but I also go on there for certain niche goods like gameboy cartridge organizers or handheld console shells. They're inexpensive goods that I can only really find there. Amazon can sell them too, but it's often the same item marked up 10x higher, which is a waste of money.
Mid-tier and niche products are where it's at currently! I'm pretty satisfied with my Chinese brand mouse, keyboard& office chair . Well established Western brand counterparts are probably better but they are so expensive in comparison
Same but for 3D printer parts, RC hobby stuff, and open source electronics "knock offs".
I love my cell phone cases and when I buy one for $5-$6 on aliexpress compared to $20-$30 that those phone case tables set up in the middle of malls. Yeah I’ll pay the $5-$6 and wait 2-5 weeks.
Yall get paid well for these comments?
@@dankmemes8619I don't know if they got paid or not, but I most certainly didn't and I've had a very similar experience.
For niche stuff these sites are great.
If you're an electronics hobbyist for example, Radio Shack is no more. Where do you get supplies?
Either overpriced (but shipped quickly) on Amazon or cheap as hell (but shipped slowly) on these sites.
"In business, we're compensated for the value we create."
... unless you're subsidized.
The value created is evaluated by those who keep your business alive. In normal case, it's customers. Increasingly, it's VC investors and government instead. As long as you create value that appeals to those groups, they will be receptive to your proposition.
Subsidized by slave labor 😡!!
Your comment is correct. You are compensated; if you are subsidized, you get part of the compensation from your customers and part from the government. And that sum is based on the value you create.
You forgot about an amazon, aliexpress dropshippers' paradise. Oh but they create their own brands, like ASFSDGTQWERG, don't they?
I didn't know Temu or shein existed until I started to get bombarded with annoying ads. Blocked them everywhere
Temu didn't exist until the ads started
You will regret it. There’s a lot of goods there. You will be saving a lot of money 💰
@@xMarkuzx can only save lots if you would spend lots on junk anyway. Most of the shit there is stuff no one needs
AliExpress has many legit, even premium products, and aren’t even cheap anymore more.
I've looked long and hard at some of the premium products, but I just can't trust them and pay the price
I bought $650 diving equipment breathing compressor with lithium for 8 hours air without need for air tank last year at aliexpress. Its pretty decent working without problem .
I learned my pricey lesson buying cheap Chinese goods a few years ago after spending $100+ on basically garbage products. Two sayings come to mind, “You get what you pay for” and “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”. Never again if I could help it.
I've seen a lot of Temu ads. It just looks like a random collection of stuff that I wouldn't buy anyway even if I didn't already know it was cheap crap.
Its not always cheep Chinese junk. I bought a pack of 4 stainless steel pizza pans on Amazon for 16 bucks. Then later ordered 4 single pans that looked just like them on TEMU. These were 1.51 each. Identical in quality and looked just like the ones on Amazon. All it boils down to is how much are you willing to pay for the same thing on Amazon.
the chinese junk thing is a hangover from the 90s, and even then a lot of it was from surrounding countries. probably some latent sinophobia thrown in of course.
Have fun eating chemicals
"sinophobia" dudes making words up to be offended
@@ChuckFreeman0102 I ain’t offended, go make your Chinese eyes yankee ✌️
@@ChuckFreeman0102Sinophobia is a term A) used in academic circles B) defined by the Cambridge and Oxford english dictionaries C) describes a pattern of racism related to the ‘Yellow Peril’ ideology of the 1800s 🙃
I’d double check before I comment next time.
I got a Temu midroll after the ad read and I saw the whole thing because I thought it was part of the video.
I am a loyal and repeat aliexpress customer.
But that is because I use the platform to access specialized goods in the deep vacuum, distillation and electrical engineering industries, which the platform is extremely competitive in in terms of quality and price.
It is a great platform for prototyping produ ts you later intend to sell or manufacture at scale, since you already have a working relationship with the manufacturer when it is finally time to establish the larger supply chains.
While cheap chinese junk is certainly subsidizing aliexpress margins, I think the primary purpise of that platform is as a way to capture more customers for their core business of alibaba
Yeah for electronics like sparepart for 3d printers and specialized driver/chips is very good to buy there
English is horrible but they genuine in support, most of them
@@dhupeeI don't know, we bought ICs from them a few years back and over 50 percent were non conforming or flat out inoperative (we got a couple thousand chips that turned out to be generic ttl chips with their markings sanded off
Amen, free jack ma
Exactly, aliexpress FTW. There are so many good products there, especially the $1.99 store is filled with gems.
Purpise, my god man
IMO, Wish had no chance once it became a meme that you will never get what you ordered, whether that be due to scammers, lost shipments, false product descriptions, or just such low quality that you get a bag of junk, etc.
The same thing will happen with Temu. People will start making memes saying "I was temu'd" when what they ordered sucks or to show a poor comparison of something, like "the wish version"
I can't talk for the other developed countries, but as a Brazilian, I find a LOT of good quality items at aliexpress for about a third of the price I find them in my country... I'm a musician, and aside from my speakers and mixer, all my accessories, transmitters and mics are from China, most under the $50, and they work considerably better than national alternatives (most come from China anyway) for much cheaper.
Of course, I search a lot to find good quality items in the midst of a lot of garbage
Most consumers are low-iq and can't even properly read an item description, let alone evaluate different specifications to understand what they are looking at.
It reminds me of my friend who bought a picture of the latest smartphone for 5$ thinking he got a deal.
same for me, im from chile and i get plenty of electronic components and development boards from ali, if you look hard enough you'll find plenty of good stuff
the yanks didn't care for decades when it was them marking up the cheap plastic crap from asian factories. they'd rather you buy the same stuff on amazon for four times the price.
@@dialecticcoma this
I've only ever heard of these companies through the memes and youtube videos ridiculing them. I wondered how so many people could find themselves on such obscure websites, and then I remembered that I haven't seen an ad in over 15 years.
Same. Between adblock/ublock, pirating music/Spotify, and abandoning TV for streaming sites, I haven't seen or listened to an ad since 2009.
but you probably do use amazon which is the same shit
@@Valdraya I buy things like shampoo, toothpase, dishwasher tablets from amazon. Difficult to get scammed with stuff like that. I also exploit amazon as much as possible, by refusing to buy prime, and always making use of the free delivery on orders over £20. I wouldn't be against using wish in the same way, but I don't think it's possible.
I have a pi-Hole for about 2 years now. That just got rid of almost all ads except youtube ones. I've only heard about temu through reddit complaints, not adds.
@@Valdraya Used them only once and discovered Amazon were scumbags. They show you only the most expensive offers when the algo thinks you're rich. At least eBay doesn't do that.
I just looked at Wish for the first time in forever. A $43 Rolex watch? Some questionable and illegal weapons? An $8 Dyson bladeless fan clone? Can't believe wish isnt bankrupt yet hahaha
There's a reason the meme is that bad quality products are from Wish. It's not a Rolex watch, just a watch that says Rolex. The fan probably breaks after two days.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 Yeah, if you look closely, the brand name on the watch is Rolodex.
"questionable and illegal weapons". Lol one day you're gonna grow up and be in a bad spot and wish you had one of those to protect yourself. Clown.
Temu just wants to get its app to your phone so they can access your sweet sweet data
Was wondering when someone would mention this. The "app new user only" (they can't even bother to use proper grammar lmao) should've made it obvious that temu is scraping every bit of data it can.
@@sussinhardrn1048 It's weird because some of their ads say "New app..." and some say "App new...". But the "App new user" gets me every time. Just hilarious.
Maybe not targeting the shrinking English market?
Through the course of this video, i got half a dozen Temu ads.
I have never shopped there.
As someone working in tech over 2 decades I appreciate the honesty and clarity of the online business model criticism. I have heard the eternal optimism and infinite scaling ideas of CEOs above me only to be struck down by the harsh and often non-sexy reality of operating a business. I wish (wink) I ever had a CEO with more ground to earth attitude but as CEOs are selected by their grandstanding by the often incompetent investment managers this is just not the case.
1. Just watch any review of these 3. You usually get the wrong item, a damaged product, or something not even close to what is pictured. After purchasing from Wish once, you learn that the experience is trash: just like what you get.
2. Temu is also spending millions in just advertising. I see their ads all the time on CZcams. Personally, it doesn't make me "Want to shop like a Billionaire", because a Billionaire wouldn't buy such low quality junk.
yeah, they'd just get sent low-quality junk along with a 10 million dollar check to post about it.
As a counterpoint, I've seen plenty of positive reviews as well too. A lot of things sold on Amazon can be found on these sites for a LOT less, just without the branding.
Where does the "want to shop like a billionaire" thing come from? The Temu ads I've seen don't seem to suggest that. Especially when they are advertising how about low prices, at least one was for less than $1 ...nobody in their right mind would assocate billionaire with
@@stevenyoung5210 Only problem I've had was a wireless mouse. It technically does work but definitely not as advertised. Claimed range: 10m. Actual range: 5cm if I am generous. At least some of the items seems like they might be left overs from a production run. Just speculating on some of the low stock and random color stuff.
@@MorbidEel The original ad campaign was a lady walking around with Temu products popping in to decorate/clothe people with a song in the background. The song said "I'm shopping like a billionaire, I know, I'm shopping like a billionaire! Temu, Temu, I'm shopping like a billionaire!"
an interesting insight! didn't even know that wish went downhill like that, i steered clear of the app years ago xD i do buy things on aliexpress regularly though.
despite the bad reputation, if you just use your brains a little bit, aliexpress is pretty safe. 95% of time, what get is exactly what i paid for. most sellers i had contact with are also very friendly and help out if something went wrong. and here's my reason to buy from aliexpress: what's sold in stores over here (i'm in europe) is mostly the same crap, made in china, but with a much higher price tag. i buy mostly crafting supplies and the difference in price is mindboggling. i am actually extremely grateful for aliexpress, because only with the affordable crafting materials i can now buy directly from china in bulk, instead of paying ridiculous prices at the hobby store, i can fully dig into my favourite hobby :3
Aliexpress stole my art and sold artprints without my permission. They are a vile, bootleg scam company! 🤮
@@SatanenPerkele sorry to hear. to be clear, not aliexpress stole your art, it was a seller who did that. but of course aliexpress as marketplace platform should make sure nothing illegal is sold by any sellers. products featuring stolen art is probably like 1% of all goods, so calling the whole company a bootleg scam company is a bit much. not saying they are without fault, like i said. but i also see the positive as it helps people like me to circumvene the scam that is prices in local stores for the same cheap products from china.
@@rusope1050 Nope. I've seen a ton of stolen art and bootleg stuff on there. Like 89% of the stuff they sell is bootleg. They use legit company images to sell you cheap knock offs. I bought a Godzilla figure marked and promoted as a legit BANDAI product. When I recived it. The figure had literally 3 eyes printed on it, the entire figure was warped and it was unmarked with any company logos/info (I payed full retail price for that knock off figure, promoted as a legit bandai product.) It went straight in the trash bin.
As I am constantly bombarded by temu ads I always wondered how they could make money. Thanks for the video!
I think influencers will keep wish alive with their wish haul videos lol
Do you think influencers influence for free
@@whyamiwastingmytimeonthis Wish doen't pay them to make those " I'm gonna test the crappiest items from wish" content
@@MiniKodjo Fair, but I've also seen "let's build a gaming pc from Temu parts" videos. And also one that was accually sponsored from Alibaba. I think wish doesn't have a much worse reputation than Aliexpress or Temu so that kind of videos can easily go from one cheap retailer to another.
Seems like I'm totally detached from those influencers because I've not heard about that for years
@@tomlxyz yeah i wouldn’t say those types of videos are very popular anymore either. I definitely run in those kind of circles on youtube where that content was popular but even I haven’t seen any videos about crappy wish products since circa 2019
These websites are not for your everyday American. They are best used in semi-niche markets for items such as electronics, 3d printing filament, and clothing which can be mass produced. You cannot expect quality, but some very quality sellers can be found.
Also aliexpress has 1-2 week shipping now. I don’t know how they do it but I haven’t had an aliexpress package take more than 2 weeks in the last year.
As someone who uses Ali express to buy clothing , some shops (if you know how to search properly ) are better than clothes you’d buy in store for 1/3 of the price and I’ll always love it
As a Muslim in Texas, I buy a loott of clothes on AliExpress
At first I thought, ok, this video must be older but it's 2 days old, so not quite sure why all of these sellers are put together like there is no difference. I don't know temu but I have heard of wish and I know aliexpress because I wanted to buy a computer part and it was sold out on amazon, so I googled and found it on aliexpress for less. Same brand and works fine.
I'm sure it's flooded with the "junk" mentioned in the video, which seems to be the main purpose of wish, but aliexpress has a variety of sellers and seems to be more like amazon than wish, since the prices vary considerably and are far from cheap in some cases. Granted, I have not ordered a 150$ wool coat from there but they seem to be on offer, as are furniture and home decor pieces. So the assertion that all they sell is useless trinkets seems to be wrong.
Genuinely interested in whether anyone has experience with ordering some of the more "serious" things off of something like that, since I'm mostly a cautious in-person buyer.
AliExpress can be great if one chooses the store carefully. I use it extensively for remote control vehicle (toy) gear, accessing stores like GRC & INJORA.
p.s. I found Wish to be a con. And Temu is just a ‘no thanks’ for me.
I've bought high-end gadgets from ali because the official websites of the brands refer to it as one of their official outlets. In fact, they provide the exact link to their ali pages. I wouldn't have bought from ali, otherwise. But the fact that it has big companies as clientele makes it legit, in my opinion. At any rate, I only buy from ali if the brands I'm buying the item from refer me to it as their selling outlet.
My step dad has bought a Segway and some tech. The Segway was fine, the tech was meh, but it worked
I buy premium electronics directly from the manufacturers site. All brands have one.
But for things like mousepads, keyboards, charging cables. Hell yes, I use AliExpress (and love it). Probably also helps that I stick to known brands there too.
Some people just want to have their poor decisions monetised😅😅
As a Canadian postal worker, it is cheaper to ship things to the States, but more expensive to ship from the States to Canada, as WELL as anywhere within Canada due to Carbon taxation
Carbon tax is a red flag of your government being woke
Okay... wait. That sponsor; so if I understood their value prop correctly, they've negotiated lower shipping fees from carriers by outsourcing for them their process of creating the shipping label? Im very intrigued by this service and seems like a very interesting business model that perhaps you would do a future episode on. Like what other end-user services can be created that are based around reducing/eliminating (outsourcing direct to the end user) a specific industry's process?
Yeah they created a great ad read and I love the idea of them wanting it shorter and just straight bullet points. Most businesses think the longer they ramble on with adjectives the more likely you are to buy.
IKEA. You handle delivery and assembly.
Only a very small percent of B2B or B2C shipments with UPS, FedEx, etc move at those companies' published list rates. Once you get to a certain volume of packages, you can negotiate a contract for (far lower) negotiated rates. Alternatively, you can use a company or service that already has negotiated rates with the parcel carriers.
@@jayschafer1760 That is exactly how it's done. USPS has 'Commercial' pricing too. That's how even two-bit eBay sellers like me can take advantage of USPS' best rates. eBay negotiates with USPS, and eBay sells us postage. They keep a bit for themselves, but it's still much cheaper than USPS' retail rates.
@@Bghjssjald233that was a standard length ad, they cleverly spun it as “we cut this down to save you time” but I’ve never seen a 3 minute ad on CZcams. It’s equivalent to saying we have an item on sale 70% off when buying from a discount store where that’s the norm.
Possible Temu hack: I ordered two products from Temu. Unsurprisingly, both were crap.
I wrote to Temu to arrange a return. They told me to keep the products and refunded my money.
So . . . I conclude that Temu knows their products are cheap junk that is not worth paying to have it returned.
Amazon has done with w/ me
big shocker a business built on no actual service besides being a middleman and taking advantage of cheap goods isnt sustainable lmao
Your channel is underrated. I was wondering how it make sense financially to ship something that costs less than $10 from China to Europe or US and still make money.
Cause the shipping is built in or they just add it on. Then making a $1 a day in a place where rent is $5 isn't terrible. Nowadays they make $1k-2k and rent is around $300-500.
No, you didnt even listen to the video. The west is subsidizing rest of the worlds logistics@@TheMysteryDriver
These are garbage that Chinese don’t want. So Americans are buying the table scrap that Chinese do not want to use themselves
I've been buying stuff from Light in the Box, Ali Express and Temu for years. I have been very pleased with 90% of the merchandise, particularly tools and bicycle gear. For instance, a 4oz carbon fiber handlebar for $18. I couldn't mail a handlebar within the US for much under $18 and it's less than half the price of anything I could buy locally, which would also be made in China.
Quick note: in 29:48 you mention Spain as an emerging economy but it's a developped one! GDP per capita in the levels of Italy and Japan
Disagreed
@@denis2381 How so?
bad holiday in benidorm once@@niko193567
That also caught me off guard. Maybe it was more of a reference to logistics infrastructure?
@@kyx5631 still untrue
The Chinese post service is essentially subsidized by the US Postal Service. Look it up. Thats why it's SO cheap to send junk from China to the US, but it's so expensive to send it back!
Incorrect. Not subsidized by the US. The Chinese postal service is heavily subsidized by the Chinese government. This allows people from anywhere in the world to buy small, inexpensive items from Chinese companies and then ship them, almost for free, to anywhere in the world.
@unicorn no you’re incorrect.
It is the Universal Postal Union.
“Developed countries” subsidise the cost of post to and from “developing countries”, of which the main beneficiary is China.
@martinhawes5647 Sorry both wrong as I'm right as always
My 6 year old Daughter taught me that 🎉
On behalf of future generations I'd like to thank everyone else involved in producing and consuming an ever increasing amount of instant land fill matter.
I'm quite sure the lasting legacy of our resource depletion and pollution will be much appreciated well into the future.
There will be a future industry in mining landfills for resources. Hopefully with the use of better technology.
Get a life
@@MaekarManastorm "Get a life"
Is that the same as consume a life?
Or life consumes itself?
Are you perhaps a student of the philosophy of The Ouroboros?
Do please explain how you would have us "Get a life " oh wise one.
We await on baited breath for your pearls of wisdom.
Tw@t.
@@bakedbean37Those impulsive, spoilt, low-information types really don’t appreciate being called out on their gluttony.
@@MaekarManastormDude you still live with your parents and will sustain from that teat likely your entire life. Don’t speak of that which you don’t know
Used both temu and wish what you see is what you get ,cheap stuff at garage sale prices, and yes free shipping.
MMBA is my favorite CZcams channel (I'm also a Patron) but I have some critical feedback about this video (hopefully it's constructive).
I really liked the deep dive into Wish but comparing them to Amazon, etc isn't really that relevant. Wish is an asset-light marketplace (i.e. 'pure marketplace'), so it would be more relevant to compare them to other asset-light marketplaces such as Etsy, Ebay, or Poshmark. By comparing them to Amazon, you concluded that Wish should be investing more into logistics and hard assets. That may end up being true (who knows what the future holds), but it's very far from their core competency of being a software powered, pure marketplace. At the end of the video, you concluded that pure marketplaces are 'easy', don't add value, and generally bad businesses. Again, you didn't bring up any other pure marketplaces (like Etsy, Ebay, etc) to support that conclusion. Comparing Wish to Amazon, Airbnb, Uber, Spotify, etc took the analysis down irrelevant paths and apples-to-oranges number comparisons. Unfortunately, those faulty comparisons make a lot of the video flawed.
I've seen all of the videos and this is the first time I had major problems with the research, so I'm sure it'll bounce back next time. Love the videos!
Are Airbnb, Uber, and Spotify not also "pure marketplaces"?
The purpose of the UPU / postal arbitrage segment is to show that Wish could not by choice remain an asset-light. marketplace as their merchants were getting priced out. At the same time, Wish had to address the core shopping experience / reduce delivery time in order to reduce user churn and improve retention - hence the only way to solve both issues was to get involved in logistics.
Etsy, Ebay, and Poshmark are not comparables. They are primarily 1:1 domestic consumer-to-consumer platforms. Amazon, AliExpress, Temu, and Wish are all international B2C marketplaces. The seller profiles and intentions are completely different. A merchant on Amazon / Temu / Wish is typically based overseas (or at least sources their products overseas) and deals in volumes by the pallet / cubic feet. A seller on Etsy / Ebay is someone dealing with much smaller volume and is generally based in the same country as the buyer.
@@ModernMBA Airbnb, Uber, and Spotify are more like 'service marketplaces' that each have a lot of underlying and regulatory differences rather the ecommerce 'goods' marketplaces I mentioned. I posit that those have a lot less in common with Wish than Etsy, Ebay, and Poshmark since they don't deal with physical goods at all. Etsy and Ebay both have B2C sellers but you make a good point that these are likely smaller sellers and less international (though there are a lot that are international too). So, yeah, not an exact comparison but seems very relevant. Maybe the best group of comparison companies would be Amazon, Etsy, and Ebay. Plus the direct competitors Temu and AliExpress.
Even as I'm reading this an order from Temu arrived at my door via the USPS. They're jewelry items to make my necklace and a bag I'll be using on my birthday trip. Everything looks fine to me.
Who knows what toxic metals may be in it, though.
@@TigerShinigami Well since those jewelry will only be wore once a year for a few hours I doubt it will do any damage.
I won't shame you for this
I haven’t watched this yet, it’s saved open in a new tab, but this got crushed in my recommendations. I was busy the first time I saw it and didn’t do anything about it and days later the second time I see it is after a lot of scrolling. I don’t know if the MMBA audience is just busy at Christmas or something or what, but this did not have the normal algorithmic reminder characteristics I normally get from this channel.
i buy lots of stuff from aliexpress. it's the same stuff as from amazon, at half the price. a significant number of things simply do not need to be super high quality. but i see a lot of useless bullshit advertised on there, too.
also, local storage as a solution to achieve quick shipping is not what aliexpress is doing. they're bundling shipments in china from different sellers for one order to pay for higher priority shipping.
I’m genuinely wondering, what are people buying on Amazon? Lots of comments dogging on Amazon yet I’m wondering what have you all purchased that made you feel that Amazon was a garbage marketplace? I for one have had a solid 65/35 good to bad product ratio out of 100. I ran through my returns and reviews, I will say I’ve seen a lot of cheap trash from them even after good research of reviews. I personally give Amazon credit as they’ve saved me on birthdays, replacement parts for appliances, good deals on phone cases, 5% back credit card, cheap tv that did the trick for family coming over, decent car parts, etc. I give Amazon a solid 6.5/10 as I’ve utilized the free shipping, prime video, decent products, and even sending gifts out to family quite a lot. I’d like to hear your experience and thoughts, I’ll be waiting 😊
I was literally asking myself this question the other day, how these companies manage to sell such cheap goods without having physical locations. Turns out, they can't really
To go short, we are living in a world of middlemen. Nobody knows where it comes from or where it goes, as long as I get my cut... Going to be the end us, you know? The production and shipping means we could be freeing up worldwide if we stopped selling each other such utter drab dragged over from everywhere else is astronomical... Business is killing the world, not saving it.... That's what citizens are for.
I'm noticing identical products on Amazon and temu, sometimes even with the same pictures. They're all mostly crap but i did order static grass for miniatures and a silicone donut pan on temu.
They are most likely toxic. Never ever buy chinese stuff that comes in contact with food.
I've been waiting so long for you to upload, finally! Yay!
Some, if not most, of the products you buy on Amazon come from these sites; 90% of everything sold on Amazon is from China. Phone cases are phone cases, electronics are electronics, and significant companies may negotiate for higher quality products to be made, but they all come from the same places. It's all a function of what retailers can negotiate; if you want to design jeans, buying 5m pieces allows you to demand thicker material, YKK zippers, and better stitching. Sites like these aren't the Amazon for low-income people; they expose how significant brands are robbing us.
I don't understand how the last thought relates to everything else you typed.
You are not wrong but i don't really think most of the stuff is good
@@johnnyrabenold6133 Because goods purchased via these platforms are much cheaper than the same goods purchased from a western retailer.
Most analyses like this don't seem to go beyond the cliche to point out that besides finding garbage sold on these websites, one does find excellent deals on products with excellent qualities for some product categories. It is more about knowing the tricks to reliably find quality items on these sites, just like knowing how to find quality items on Ebay/Amazon. And that's why many do buy from these websites for years.
1. lets get some examples of these items.
2. These analyses are discussing the broad product mix on the platform and the creator's general business strategy. Outliers don't really matter.
@@T30ThinkPad Those products I bought over the years aren't even outliers. They are normal stuff people bought on amazon/ebay/etc. Many got non-C shape excellent reviews on Amazon, just 2-3x the price. The use of words like outliers makes you think that few (by that usage 'outliers') of those that are worth purchasing were just outliers. If these analyses are just about general business strategy to only that extent, then it would be missing the point I mentioned earlier regarding why many people are indeed shopping there, repeatedly, for good reasons.
Those products I bought over the years aren't even outliers. They are normal stuff people bought on amazon/ebay/etc. Many got non-C shape excellent reviews on Amazon, just 2-3x the price. The use of words like outliers makes you think that few (by that usage 'outliers') of those that are worth purchasing were just outliers. If these analyses are just about general business strategy to only that extent, then it would be missing the point I mentioned earlier regarding why many people are indeed shopping there, repeatedly, for good reasons.
Examples? I've yet to see anything on Wish or the others that contradict this video.
@@echidnablade Good you keep that belief. Notice that I didn't mention Wish.
26:32 - i think zone on which Wish decided to NOT focus speak on its own. I mean they say about bringing good to low income customers, but they completely abandoned "really poor" one, Africa, Asia (except Japan and South Korea obviously) to focus no more lucrative.
On Ali there are not only cheap things sellers, but also known Chinese brands (with great quality items) shops. And it is possible to shop there with list. So it depends on a customer what goods to choose and to do impulsive purchases or not.
And... other retailers (as years before the creation of those sites) just buy it in China and sell under different names or add in price. Although they purchase those items even cheaper, then Ali prices.
Dear MMBA, Thank you for another well researched and produced piece. "...6,000,000 USD for nine months of work...", from a business standpoint this is obscene, and worse ridiculous, and I am afraid to say, not the most egregious example of CEO pay to Company performance. I know that is to your credit to maintain your relationships to your Subscribers and Patreon Supporters, but I would like to make a suggestion for a possible future video, the history of CEO payment, and the quantifiable ( or un-quantifiable ) relationship between CEO earnings and company success. It is my personal "hunch" that there is No Relationship, and that CEO tenure to company success is a myth.
It’s amazing that people are given massive salaries while failing isn’t it ??
I remember a LOT of tchotchke stores in the 80s and 90s with what seemed like a random assortment of things that people really didn't need (oddly in high end neighborhoods too). It seemed to start in the five and dime stores and then you'd see stores solely offering cheap crap in unexpected places (deep in office buildings for example) or in expected tourist traps (on Main Street, in strip malls, etc). And THEN came the dollar stores and now the online dollar stores. I always suspected some sort on shenanigans behind the scenes. It never seemed quite on the up and up... Like, "What business does this store have being here along with more legitimate retailers?". Those stores didn't last of course and seemed like a temporary goof/plaything some business rich kids thought up.
ive never used wish or temu, but aliexpress doesnt deserve all the flack it gets. i buy little things from there all the time, stuff like stickers, keychains, phone cases, and in my experience it's really all the same quality you'd get on amazon, or even really in most brick and mortar stores nowdays, just cheaper because it's coming straight from the manufacturer. again, i cant say much about the quality of temu or wish, but i can say that, in a world where it's almost impossible to find high quality products, wouldn't you at least want the low quality products to be cheap?
Christmas got a whole lot better with some ModernMBA
Amazing content (as always)!
Could you please provide more information about the UPU business model nationwide? Additionally, if feasible, could you discuss the global shipping industry? As you may know, when individuals send products to another country, it involves transportation by both plane and ship.
The costs associated with the infrastructure built by transportation and shipping companies are substantial. How do these companies manage to survive and determine the pricing for shipping?
Ships can carry so much that an individual item or packages costs almost nothing to ship by sea or train or truck.
With planes if you've ever ordered from china you'll notice your package sits at the airport for a while. They're literally waiting for missed cargo and cheap space/weight at last minute flights and loads.
I believe China is considered a "developing nation" by the WTO, so they benefit from subsidized exports. So, in effect, assuming you're from a developed nation, you're already paying for the shipping cost of another nation. Specifically, a "developing nation" with a space program, second largest GDP, and the second largest naval fleet in the world. Funny how things work out.
Wendover Productions have lots of good logistics-based videos like you’re looking for, I recommend them. Also would be cool to see a MMBA video on a shipping giant, it’s a very complex system
@@CerealforProteinThe video already states that the UPU subsidies for China were scrapped a few years ago under Trump.
I believe that since then, Chinese logistics companies built their own shipping network that would allow them to ship things from China to the U.S. for cheaper than the USPS could ship within the US, making Chinese online sellers competitive with domestic U.S. online stores again.
I wouldnt say that consumers give up quality and convenience for value when using Wish, because value is not the same thing as low prices. By giving up quality, they are actually getting a worse value. In fact, the cheapest option often has the lowest value and highest profit margins.
Rollo is actually a pretty good printer. I’ve been using the wired one for over 2 years with UPS provided free thermal labels. I would give it 4/5 stars. Biggest complaint is that if you’re printing 20+ labels, rollo would have a stroke and print 3 blanks then error out saying no labels in feed.
Edit: To continue printing, I need to open up the lid and pull the few blank labels back then close it.
Sounds like trash
I remember one of the first Wish ads I saw, when the platform was pretty new. There was an obviously fake SD card in the ad. It got put on my mental list of scam sites to avoid.
Wow I am so excited for this video merry christmas!!
Great breakdown, THANKS!
I love seeing guys like Vijay Talwar getting hired in preexisting companies and being absolutely terrible at their job. More companies need to bring in men like him with an unproven track record and all they have going for them is their little MBA. Practical experience + real insight + innovation > a paper certificate from school
AliExpress does sell quality electronic components though, and for much less than Mouser and Digikey. Can't say the same for the other two
Just found your page somehow and I think im hooked!
Walmart is the world's largest retail outlet for Chinese manufacturers. They should also be on this list.
Very good breakdown. If you'd like to further expore the E-Commerce industry, might I suggest doing an analysis on Shopee and Lazada in South East Asia?
I feel like you'd be able to disect the full blown E-Commerce war between this two happening there
Dang, what an excellently researched video!
Good stuff keep the videos coming
I disagree that it’s for the poor. If you’re willing to wait, you get the same product, minus amazon’s profit margin. Quality is no different. Plus, in some countries there is no amazon, so sites like these fill the void.
Nah its all junk.
@@LawrenceTimmeYes, pay your corporate overlords more
Chinese manufacturers know how to cut corners from the overpriced and inflated marketing, branding, logistics, advertisement and so on that consumerist culture in the west try to sell as indispensable and added value to justify big price tags (AKA profits). Big brands are afraid younger generations realize about it, making cool this trend of unbranded and white label stuff proven good or equal quality for treasure hunters. Just open any branded item and find cheap parts manufactured probably in the same chinese factory as the cheap alternatives do, but you notice these cheap items exclude the attractive external presentation with a fashionable brand tag apealing for westerners, the dubious customer support in India as a plus, the nice shiny packaging with perfect English and cool printed graphic designs on the box that you throw away to the trash in seconds along with the bulked printed manual that warn Americans not to eat this plastic product and what number to call in case it happens.
I stumbled across this channel a few weeks ago - subscribed pretty quickly as I loved the content. However, this is the 2nd video I've watched (out of many) in which I think opinion is starting to masquerade as fact. Hopefully you guys are able to keep your content objective/focused on business metrics and not personal subjectivity about the person/brand/industry/country of origin/etc.. Other than that, love the research & storyboarding that goes into the videos!
My small experience was buying those shrink hoses. Amazon was about $35 and got it in two days. Same exact thing on Temu was $9, but took about two weeks.
Aliexpress stole my art and sold artprints without my permission. They are a vile, bootleg scam company! 🤮
Temu works great here in Mexico. 2 week delivery.
I haven’t gotten to watch this yet given the holidays, but I do like the new title better!
Almost everything you buy comes from that country. It’s up to you how many middlemen you want to pay for the same product.
Aliexpress/Alibaba has been around much longer than Wish. Perhaps you are differentiating between when they began targeting the US consumer market.
It's possible because most people still believe quality doesn't exist. It's just a lie someone tell themself if they cannot afford something right this very second, because who got time to save up money... Got to have the thing right now...
Well, just start to care about your personal budget and pay what quality cost. There's no other way of doing it but to figure out what your true needs actually are, and I can tell you right now that all the junk on those platforms is definitely not it. Personally I'd rather have less but quality items, than lots of junk. Most people shoot for the latter, and it's just sad really. If we save up for something we really want, we will care more about it which will also make it last longer.
The most important thing to understand is that price per year is the actual pricetag for anything that cost money. Think longterm, and ask yourself what this or that will truly cost in a year of use, because that will make it much easier to evaluate if it is a viable choice or not.
oops I almost scrolled past this video cause my stupid autobot brain assumed it was just another one of the 50246 ads YT has every hour.
Great detailed video.
Please consider making a video on wireless cellphone companies (preferably the big 3, Verizon T-Mobile AT&T)
AT&T would best of all 3. Verizon is the worst.
Pronouncing Szulczewski ("shool-chev-skee") as "skull-whiskey" has to be one of the worse butcherings of a Polish last name I've heard
or the best
Seen the same crap on Wish as on AliExpress and Alibaba and those. One main issue are searching for items, many are wrongly categorized and use of tag words not matching, along lacking ways to sort possible matches. Next issue is sneaky way to set prices, often listing several version where the cheap version is not the same as you searched for, maybe even not available. Then many variations of shipment prices and item prices of same product, or with a small difference. All from a bunch of different sellers/shops, apparently. Then when get the product, often badly packaged and very little info, most in Chinese, very rarely in a box. Along high chance of made of low quality materials and faulty copies. Some things seems to be OK, probably made in same factory as a brand without the stamp or whatever markings.
I get cheap stuffs from ali often. Simple metal parts, adapters, earbuds, flashlight, ..etc are really good for their price and often is the same thing, which is a few multiples expensive elsewhere.
I wish you also covered Aliexpress, as promised in the title.
What is the real value of a "brand" when it is made in the same factory by the same people who make the wish products? Some marginally better QA that will drive the same changes to the generic products if they are relavent?
I used to be regular (not super fan, however) customer of Ali. Stuff is really cheap (not always, however) and there is a lot of variety but...usually orders from Ali is headache. I not even mention generally buggy site, but there is slow delivery, poor quality and very frequent attempts to rip you off or outright scam you by sellers. Any electronics is either "will broke any moment" on hardware side or no support on software. Android tablet from Ali? Well, no firmware update ever then, for example. "jewelry"? Not even close to that on picture. Anime figurine? Piss poor replica with really bad paintjob and gaps between parts.
And i talk about "sane" products, not insane crap which i dunno who buys.
Well, to be honest, animal clothes is fine if you get size right. Maybe some small gadgets too, like USB adapters(if you choose carefully), HDD cases and stuff like that - in retail you will find same products from same factory anyway.
Happy Christmas Day from Australia.