Harbor freight manual tire changer, 20 years experience .

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  • čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
  • I have owned this manual tire changer for 20 years and have mounted and unmounted hundreds of tires, I'll show you how it works, along with tips & tricks.
  • Věda a technologie

Komentáře • 149

  • @williamdejeffrio9701
    @williamdejeffrio9701 Před 7 měsíci +7

    First guy I've seen that used the tire changer unmodified and dismounted AND mounted a tire in the same video! Great job!!!

  • @timrobinson6404
    @timrobinson6404 Před 3 lety +5

    I learned a new trick this year, toilet wax ring smeared on the wheel on the stubborn ones helps it seat easier.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety

      Cool, thanks

    • @crpth1
      @crpth1 Před 2 lety +1

      More practical... Hair spray, the cheapest you can get your hands on! As been the best for years. I seldom use anything else! On occasion some of them even have perfume! LOL 😂 Jokes apart, it lubes surprisingly well and when dry improve the sealing properties. Either case any excess cleans perfectly well with plain water. And no damage whatsoever to wheels or rubber! Beside the also very practical self contained spray can form!
      Did I mention cheap, that's my criteria to choose hair spray... ;-)

  • @JamesCouch777
    @JamesCouch777 Před 3 lety +8

    I used to work in a tire shop many years ago and if we had a tire that was hard to seat we smeared regular old gun grease all around the bead. Never had one that didn't work on. I've changed many tires without a tire changer but I'm getting too old for that now. Love your videos 👍✌️

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety

      Thank you

    • @michaeldose2041
      @michaeldose2041 Před rokem

      The question becomes did the grease react with the rubber on the tire and degrade it and become a problem months or years later? I mean sure you got it out the door, I'm just saying there could possibly be a reason not to do that.

    • @gunlover1955
      @gunlover1955 Před rokem

      @@ChrisfromKeyfarm Natural Rubber and oil don't work the oil will over time invade the rubber and make it soft and it could blow out never put oil or grease on the rubber use any liquid dish soap or something like Crisco or animal lard, Tire soap is the best thing never use any petroleum based oils. DOT says at highway speeds heat oil and rubber or an accident just waiting to happen do some research!

    • @emmettturner9452
      @emmettturner9452 Před 11 měsíci +1

      @@michaeldose2041Yeah. It’s just like how oil degrades rubber bushings and rubber engine mounts when you have an oil leak. If the vehicle goes through tires fast enough it’s probably no big deal but for something that might only be used occasionally I would be more cautious. Example: Classic motorcycles that don’t get ridden much.

    • @michaeldose2041
      @michaeldose2041 Před 11 měsíci +2

      @@emmettturner9452 I agree tires can be around for many years.

  • @duaneroepke8840
    @duaneroepke8840 Před 3 lety +6

    Like Greg I've used any kind of STRAIGHT dish wash liquid. Been doing it since 70s and not had problem with rust. I use it to both take off and remoumt.
    Side note if you ever get hold of an early 60s rim it may be a "safety rim". These can only be worked from the back side of the rim. They will NOT come off the front.......Don't ask.
    You also want to start mount and dismount at the valve stem so when the tire goes to the center of the rim it dosen't slide over the base of the valve stem with a lot of pressure exerted on the base.

    • @ridgerunner106
      @ridgerunner106 Před 7 měsíci

      I have come across those, I did it from the front, and it was tough. All four.

  • @johnnybeddi547
    @johnnybeddi547 Před 2 lety +1

    This is the greatest harbor freight tire change video ever made

  • @AndreS_-df2nw
    @AndreS_-df2nw Před 3 lety +2

    I've had one of these for ~20 years, used it mostly on atv tires. I stopped using it when my brother bought a May 'tire-matic' (really old center post machine) and we started using that on car, truck & trailer tires for a few years, he also picked up a cheap old spin tire balancer & we figured out how to make it work. He recently sold the May tire machine & got a much newer rim clamp machine that runs on air pressure. Now we don't chew up the wheels anymore..
    Just a few cars will pay for the machine. No trips into town, appointments, waiting, or getting denied because you didn't buy tires from them.
    I'm watching for a hand-spin balancer now...

    • @clarityofthought
      @clarityofthought Před rokem

      whats the brand of the rim clamp machine?

    • @AndreS_-df2nw
      @AndreS_-df2nw Před rokem

      @@clarityofthought it's a coats, a cousin that's a diesel mechanic had picked one up from a job that was getting new ones and let it sit to rot in the desert. It needed air lines & a little TLC , paint is faded stickers are missing & chipped off, but it works great now. Picked up a older used snap- on hand-spin balancer since then too... with patience & willingness to travel, they can be had under $500.

  • @longhaired1954
    @longhaired1954 Před 5 měsíci

    Glad to see you breathing heavy while doing this , I am 70 with a 100 % blockage in my left anterior artery . I get real short winded quickly. I thought it was just me . Nice video.

  • @Tampaboys
    @Tampaboys Před 3 lety +4

    That’s a great tool to have buddy makes life a lot easier than doing them on the bench and vise like I’ve been doing that made quick easy work heck ya

  • @matty2helpfull
    @matty2helpfull Před 3 lety +3

    I finally got that can of stuff but ive been using grease for about 4 years I've never had a problem ive had people tell me that is bad but I gotta tell you regular grease like you would use to grease the steering in your vehicle works great

  • @ridgerunner106
    @ridgerunner106 Před 7 měsíci +1

    That can of stuff is a game changer. I live out in the country. Tire changer has a junky pile around it, i have changed out some major tires.

  • @edemup44
    @edemup44 Před rokem +1

    I have one and you make it look easy.

  • @travislangevin6319
    @travislangevin6319 Před 2 lety +2

    Your cool as a fan brother. I enjoyed your video keep it up and God bless you

  • @theadventuresofshellyandfr5618

    When I take my tire off of my tire changer I bounce it on the ground a few times seems to help the bead seat before I put air in it. I also leave the valve stem out and use a good air chuck to force more air into it quicker. On stubborn wide wheels I spray gas & then air inside and light it with a long stick! Woooofff! POP! She seats quickly and then pump air into it quick! Or it will unbead itself. Love God love people! Be safe kids!

    • @travislangevin6319
      @travislangevin6319 Před 2 lety

      I have a buddy who tried that gas trick and I just concluded that he wasn't The brightest bulb in the box because it didn't work so apparently he wasn't doing it correctly but it would be nice to see someone doing it correctly before I try it myself

    • @crpth1
      @crpth1 Před 2 lety +1

      Used gas explosion more times than I should say! Works perfectly but truth be told I've done my fair share of tires with the most basic cheap Chinese mini 12v compressor! Yes, those you plug into the cigarette lighter socket!
      All methods can work perfectly well. IF one knows what is doing! ;-) With this said. Truth be told the mini compressor is a game of patience. A long game of patience. LOL 😂 I wouldn't replace it with my "normal" compressors. But if on occasion you have nothing else. It can do the job! No fancy stuff needed. Bare in mind, that this way it takes longer to air pressure the tire than assemble/disassemble. LOL 😂

    • @garymahon1955
      @garymahon1955 Před 7 měsíci +1

      Really hard to love some evil people, though, who are purposely destroyin this nation and Bible values. We are now into our biggest trouble, and America being ruined in the next year or 2. Praying Almighty Father in Heaven send His righeous, glorified Son back soon, to stop all the wars and evils soon., but all hell about to break loose before that, sadly. Ecc 12:13 "Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."

  • @jrovalinoful
    @jrovalinoful Před rokem +2

    Thank you sir. I was really struggling with putting back the new tire onwith just the harbor hand tool and soapy water. I Wil try your recommendation.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před rokem +1

      Maybe it'll help, straight liquid soap does pretty well.

  • @royscarbrough3589
    @royscarbrough3589 Před 3 lety +1

    Thanks as usual-great information

  • @mattmgarza
    @mattmgarza Před 3 lety +4

    I suspect this guy isn't joking about having twenty years' experience with this tire changer. He made that look easy. I assure you if you buy that tire changer it will take you much, much, much longer than that.
    The only thing I can see that he did that I didn't is that he pushed the tire down a bit farther as he was going around. I suppose that's why the tire didn't slip off on the opposite side as he was trying to make progress with the tire iron. That's what always happened for me. I'd get to the point where that large bar was no longer useful, use the tire iron, but the progress I made with the tire iron would just be undone on the other side of the tire---just kept slipping off.
    I ended up selling that tire changer. But I still have a bubble balancer!

    • @roseymalino9855
      @roseymalino9855 Před 2 lety +1

      Actually, he did not make it look easy, especially for someone having done it for 20 years. Usually, the bottom bead can be pushed fully on without needing the tool. He seemed to struggle doing the top bead using a jerking motion instead of a smooth pull.

    • @garymahon1955
      @garymahon1955 Před 7 měsíci +1

      Yes. I can see my first time wil not be at all easy.

  • @paulk5311
    @paulk5311 Před 3 lety +3

    i've mounted them dry and used a soapy spray as well. now i am using a silicone spray because i have some and it works well.
    a buddy had one of those harbor freight tire changers and he was bragging on how good it worked. he proceeded to demonstrate to me how awesome it was and when he used the flat end of the bar it snapped off. i have one now that my son in law bought me because he bent my other one by changing 8 ply tires. the pipe on the new one is quite thin and cheap and the holes where the pin runs through has already started to tear. i will beef it up and keep on going.

  • @spacecase0
    @spacecase0 Před 3 lety +4

    For those beads that are stubborn, you can drive another car on top of the rubber part of the tire to break the bead once you remove the valve core

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety +1

      Great tip, tried it once

    • @garymahon1955
      @garymahon1955 Před 7 měsíci

      I tried that the other day, still have to set up my new HFT changer on a base.

  • @robertrab2563
    @robertrab2563 Před 3 lety +3

    I have never got that tire stuff but what I do use is dish soap it's a good lubrication for the tire and it will not hurt the rubber. And a nether thing I did with the harborfreight tire changer I cut the bar that you remove the tire with in half then I added in the middle more stell to make it longer so know I have lots more leverage so it is a lot easier to change the tire 😀. And I dried 4 holes in the concrete then I put the things that you drive into the concrete that have threads so I put the tire changer over the holes then put the bolts in then I do the tire change when I'm done I remove the bolts then I put the changer away then I put short creg bolts in the floor to keep dirt from going in the holes. With crag bolts you won't trip over then like you would with a regular bolt.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety

      cool

    • @cwixted
      @cwixted Před 3 lety

      What is a “creg” or “crag” bolt?

    • @michael931
      @michael931 Před 2 lety

      @cwixted well there are Kreg screws. But they don't have machine threads. But they have very low profile heads. Maybe that is it.

  • @rvdogfl
    @rvdogfl Před 2 lety +3

    Tires on the road are in contact will oil and grease from all the oil and grease leaking on the road. I have been using oil and grease on my tire beads for years and works great for me. Grease works best for me on my boat trailer wheels used in salt water.

  • @ashtoncrow9368
    @ashtoncrow9368 Před 3 lety +5

    Dish soap with no water has done the trick for me. I’ve used it on 18 wheeler aluminum rims, down to lawnmower steel rims and I haven’t seen it rust out the rim.

  • @cg41386
    @cg41386 Před rokem +1

    Rockin' the old school tighty whities 👍

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před rokem +1

      Yessir, I need the support, thanks for watching.🤣🤣🤣

  • @garymahon1955
    @garymahon1955 Před 7 měsíci

    Thanks much for this! I bought one last week, still have to mount it on 4'x4' 3/4" plywood base,.as i have no concrete floor or garage,. and hoping to use it on my 83 F150 Pickup 15" tires. Im in 70th yr, tired of spending money, as Im on Soc Sec and still strong yet. Some videos say to use Dawn with water, though, but i suppose that ok for bead breaking, but not for mounting.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 7 měsíci

      I had to put mine on a slab of concrete, nothing else worked, I first had it mounted on a pallet and couldn't do anything with that setup

    • @garymahon1955
      @garymahon1955 Před 7 měsíci

      I just changed my very first pickup truck tire with this item. I mounted in aon a 3/4" 4' x 4' board/ Was plenty of work, but only mounting new used tire was hard. Glad i bought one. and should save me money!@@ChrisfromKeyfarm

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 7 měsíci

      Cool

  • @dyardsale5475
    @dyardsale5475 Před 11 měsíci

    Thanks for the information.

  • @gypsy8961
    @gypsy8961 Před 2 lety +2

    I worked for a tire company years ago and we always used cheap dishwashing liquid for lube.

  • @bone3594
    @bone3594 Před 3 lety +2

    You can use dish soap to wax to unsalted lard and vegetable oil to lubricate tires and wheel rims, will cause no harm to rubber tires or rims.

  • @jamesburke5709
    @jamesburke5709 Před 3 lety +1

    It'll slide off the rim alot easer if you put a little bit of dawn dishwashing liquid around it

  • @51-FS
    @51-FS Před 3 lety +1

    Have u done any 10 inch wide wheels with that?

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety

      I have mounted big mud tires with it, not sure how wide. My golf cart tires were all mounted on this and they are 18x8-8 .

  • @jactilm8687
    @jactilm8687 Před rokem +2

    I have used about 4 or 5 oz of motor oil on tire beads for over 25 years and never had a problem and antifreeze to balance them.

  • @DoctorRickSanchez
    @DoctorRickSanchez Před 3 lety +1

    I legit thought that tire changer was wooden at first glance until I heard the squeaky bolts lol.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety

      LOL nope just faded yellow, rust with a touch of old mixed in

  • @driftlesshermit9731
    @driftlesshermit9731 Před 3 lety +2

    I was pretty amazed the first time I saw a dude change a tire with a sledge hammer and a couple of crow bars.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety +1

      It's a pretty useful skill to have.

    • @crpth1
      @crpth1 Před 2 lety +1

      For many years I used my tire irons and a rubber mallet nothing else. But I'm getting older and I got the space. So I have one of these machines at hand.
      Truth be told you sweat less. But knowing what to do is the whole trick for either method! ;-)

  • @4fabfours
    @4fabfours Před 9 měsíci +1

    How abut putting a tie down around the diameter of the tire when airing up the tire.....

  • @MrMelvinkennedy1
    @MrMelvinkennedy1 Před 3 lety +2

    put some old carpet in that concrete, it hurt my heart when you flipped the wheel over on its face on bare concrete. Changing tires my whole life and ran a truck tire service truck which is where i got the old carpet or rug idea

  • @idahopotato5837
    @idahopotato5837 Před 3 lety +9

    The edge of that concrete has got to be scratching the rim. Drop a door mat on it.

    • @travislangevin6319
      @travislangevin6319 Před 2 lety

      It's a farm truck I don't think that he is worried about a scratch or two. Just saying

    • @michaeldose2041
      @michaeldose2041 Před rokem

      @@travislangevin6319I was thinking the same thing. Yeah I know, it's a farm truck. So what? If you can prevent damage with a small effort do it. Also he mentions how the cap will cover the damage the hold down does (way less than the concrete) so obviously he does care.

  • @gregbrown4962
    @gregbrown4962 Před 3 lety +3

    Dawn or Joy dish soap is the best tire lube. No water needed.

    • @cecileubank2555
      @cecileubank2555 Před 3 lety

      Anyone ever heard of fluid film actually a corrosive and rust protectant slickest stuff i ever touched sold at lowes

  • @TABrown-xh7xc
    @TABrown-xh7xc Před 3 lety +3

    I have never seen anybody use oil just soapy water and a jar mop, but hey if it works go for it ! I also like my white letters out.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety +1

      I used to use soapy water, rusted some steel rims really bad.

    • @TABrown-xh7xc
      @TABrown-xh7xc Před 3 lety +1

      @@ChrisfromKeyfarm unfortunately I keep winding up with aluminum rims, and no I don't polish them.

    • @AndreS_-df2nw
      @AndreS_-df2nw Před 3 lety

      I've been using a dish soap/water mix in a spray bottle.
      Seems to work.
      That said, what's in the mix that tire shops use? Really soft wax?

    • @crpth1
      @crpth1 Před 2 lety +1

      @@ChrisfromKeyfarm - I find that very hard to believe!
      Probably rusted more from being out in the weather. From non dehumidified air on the tire. Or even the initial quality of the steel on those particular wheels.
      Than the absolutely tiny amount of soap left from an occasional assembly operation... Let's be reasonable!
      I've been doing it for decades now. I could NEVER attribute rust to such application of simple soap! Now road salt, ice, rain, snow... That's a whole different game! ;-)

  • @TimTurner115
    @TimTurner115 Před 3 lety +5

    Also you can buy a bubble balancer Harbor Freight really cheap the complete the tire changing

  • @joehighsmith2951
    @joehighsmith2951 Před rokem

    Coats 20/20 tire machine uses the same principle. They're still around and sell for $250 to $400. Well worth having if you do your own work. The more modern tire machines are two ro four times as much. Tractor trailer tires have a shalliw bead on the .5 rims. Usually takes 500 miles of run time to seat them. You are correct the tires will spin on The rim under heavy brakeing below 500 miles.

  • @happypanda8320
    @happypanda8320 Před rokem +1

    Thanks man. This works good for motorcycle tires?

  • @tlo35
    @tlo35 Před rokem +1

    Used vegetable based oil or shortening for lube.

  • @freddy915
    @freddy915 Před 3 lety +2

    I like you already buddy you would do stuff that I would do I would use WD-40 but oil is cool I never thought about that

  • @mnhoss2100
    @mnhoss2100 Před rokem +1

    Just use. Vegetable oil in tires and to help get carbs in the carb boots. It Petro free.

  • @mattmgarza
    @mattmgarza Před 3 lety +3

    Has anyone here used the trick of setting the tire on fire in order to get it to bead? I've done it once or twice and it worked perfectly.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety +2

      I've done it on an 18 wheeler trailer ( I pulled the inside tire up on blocks to get pressure off of it) done it, but don't like it.😀

    • @JamesCouch777
      @JamesCouch777 Před 3 lety +1

      I tried it but I just about burned the tire up, don't know if I used too much or too little.

    • @cecileubank2555
      @cecileubank2555 Před 3 lety +1

      Do u mean spray starter fluid in the tire then through a match n saw it work on big tires

    • @mattmgarza
      @mattmgarza Před 3 lety +1

      @@cecileubank2555 spray it around the perimeter of the tire where it meets up with the wheel

  • @PinChE_LoCo
    @PinChE_LoCo Před rokem +1

    I just bought 1. Does not look strong 😅 . I hope it does the job.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před rokem +2

      Fortunately mine has been very good for me.

    • @garymahon1955
      @garymahon1955 Před 7 měsíci

      I just bought one last week for $60, hoping i can get it to work, and save money.

  • @OU812NVME
    @OU812NVME Před rokem +2

    LOL lube it up lol the struggle is REAL

  • @richardross119
    @richardross119 Před 8 měsíci +1

    When I can't get a bead to seal. I pour a bottle cap of gas inside the tire and ignite it (with a match. BOOM!!! Tire is sealed and half inflated.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 8 měsíci +1

      I've done it with starting fluid, it's my least favorite way 😀

  • @markcooper554
    @markcooper554 Před 3 lety +5

    Here's one you'll like try this when you can't get the tire to inflate get a ratchet tie down and tighten that sucker up for the wide tire at you might need two tighten it up tighting it up get it good and tight and it'll fill up

  • @justme8340
    @justme8340 Před rokem

    I returned mine to HF within an hour. First attempt at breaking a bead the breaker legs folded like wet spaghetti.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před rokem

      Man, that ain't no good. Mine has been really useful.

    • @jrovalinoful
      @jrovalinoful Před rokem +1

      BtW - Same happened to me. I added 3 plastic zip ties around the breaker leg to give it some rigidity. (don't have a welder)

    • @ridgerunner106
      @ridgerunner106 Před 7 měsíci

      I bought the separate bead breaker. Never used the one on the changer. It was given to me, they didn't have all of it. I took the bead breaker off and it's laying around out there. I didn't have the cross looking base of channel iron that goes on the Bottom, didn't know I needed it. I just welded the changer to a 4x4 plate of steel and use it that way.

  • @emmettturner9452
    @emmettturner9452 Před 11 měsíci

    The mosquitos around those old tires must be horrendous!

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 11 měsíci +2

      I finally found a place to take them and hopefully I'll get them hauled away very soon

    • @emmettturner9452
      @emmettturner9452 Před 11 měsíci +1

      @@ChrisfromKeyfarm I was almost eaten alive by mosquitos at my mom’s place this morning where she has standing water all over, including old tires. ;) West GA so I figure we’re pretty similar climate-wise.

  • @buzzedalldrink9131
    @buzzedalldrink9131 Před 5 měsíci

    Nice work but I think I’ll take my tire to a tire shop and pay some kid to do it. A longer handle would make things easier. thanks tor the video

  • @sergeantmasson3669
    @sergeantmasson3669 Před 2 lety

    No soap/lube for the tire bead, WTH?

  • @mnhoss2100
    @mnhoss2100 Před rokem +1

    For tires I just use dishsoap

  • @ghost_rider221
    @ghost_rider221 Před 4 měsíci

    I dont have 20 years of exp. but i would suggest maybe some lube on the tire/rim to make it come off easier lol

  • @mnhoss2100
    @mnhoss2100 Před rokem +1

    When I get them that don't like to bead up, I wrap a ratchet strap around it and crank it tight enough to seal a bit. Leave the valve core out , it gets more pressure faster. Then once in snaps I put the core back in lossen the ratchet strap and viola.

  • @aaab6054
    @aaab6054 Před rokem

    Your concrete base would work better with a footing or even just set into the ground. I was seeing the whole platform spinning and rocking.

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před rokem +1

      Your absolutely right, it wasn't poured there, I moved it there with a tractor and never buried it.

  • @ghost_rider221
    @ghost_rider221 Před 4 měsíci

    just use soap and water in a squirt bottle lol

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 4 měsíci

      Soap is ok but you don't want to use any water. I used to do it that way and everything I used water on the rim always rusted right at the bead.

  • @lcheerezexplorer
    @lcheerezexplorer Před 7 měsíci +1

    WD40 works great

  • @michaeldose2041
    @michaeldose2041 Před rokem +2

    For all the ''yeah I use whatever lube'', water trapped inside the wheel is bad, period. Using just enough to make the bead slick is all you need. I cringe when I see guys squirting soap and water all over the place with a squirt bottle.

  • @EivinSukoi
    @EivinSukoi Před 8 měsíci

    I am confused when u said “ If you live in the country, and do it yourself” don’t use one of these “ , reason I am here is to see how you use this Marvel 😬

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 8 měsíci +1

      Honestly I don't really remember, but definitely use one, I've got a lot of use out of mine. Thanks for watching

    • @EivinSukoi
      @EivinSukoi Před 8 měsíci

      👍

  • @nickmanzano1704
    @nickmanzano1704 Před rokem +1

    thoes tire changers suck and they are junk. i had one and the bars bent the first time i tryed to break the bead of the tire dont ever get one

  • @jesusescobedo91
    @jesusescobedo91 Před 3 lety +2

    Doesn’t show the 20 year experience!! Just saying

    • @ChrisfromKeyfarm
      @ChrisfromKeyfarm  Před 3 lety +1

      Oh man, that hurts!
      You should see someone with no experience wrestle with it.