the ballad of songbirds and snakes defrosted my obsession with the hunger games 🐍 *spoiler free*
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- the ballad of songbirds and snakes is out, time for a movie review! I rewatched all the original hunger games movies, read the TBOSBAS book, and now also watched the movie! time to discuss it all 🐍
00:00 intro
1:37 the hunger games retrospective
6:57 TBOSBAS introduction
11:31 TBOSBAS vs The Hunger Games
15:06 the book vs the movie
22:50 was this just a cash grab?
24:32 sympathy for the devil
28:06 is snow too hot? lol
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Hi! My name is Leonie and I am a 25 year old girl from the Netherlands who loves talking about books! From YA to non-fiction to classics, I read it all (although fantasy will always be my fave).
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A Finnick movie would be the ultimate cash grab. Everybody in the Capital thirsted after him, so channel that into an entire film.
Not to mention he was the youngest victor. That alone seems super interesting since it could follow 14 year old Finnick in the games
That would be a very sad movie since he was forced to sell himself to the capital
@@matthewsansom5180 oof I forgot that part. Nevermind the thirst trap movie idea! 😩
And Haymitch!
Also the amount of trauma, angst and mental health that could be capitalized on? 🤔😅
everyone who loved him was destroyed in someway. "it's the things we love most, that destroy us." so it does not have to be about who he "loved" but more about what happen to those who love him. sejanus loved him like a brother and it killed him. lucy loved him and he broke her trust. tigris loved him and he threw her aside as if she were nothing.
I like what you're saying, that seems to be his logic. He weaponizes what you love to destroy you. He doesn't see the act of loving as a remarkable or courageous trait.
I also think it could make a reference on how Snow put or "loved" power over anything else to the point of killing others and poisoning himself so he could keep his authority and control over people, which in the following years leads him to his death
I always took it as his love for obsessing over control is what destroyed him. Both his character (in BOSBAS) and his life (in Hunger Games)
Also, Snow loves victory more than anything so seeking it creates opportunity for defeat whereas it's because Lucy values trust more than love that she can't be destroyed. That adds another layer of meaning to the interpretation of the quote.
I like to think he used that line as an excuse for himself. Like there was still a small part that knew how horrible he had become. Saying that line he was justifying it. Like his tought process went a little like: "I had no choise. This is her fault, not mine. I did what I needed to and she betrayed me after all I did for her. After all I did, she still refused to be mine"
i think the way a lot of movies portray the villain as being "ugly" is really problematic. like having big noses, being overweight, or having a noticeable disability, for example. conflating those things with being a bad person sends a horrible message, especially to young kids that may have one of those features. i hope we start to move away from doing this in the future.
100%
I was looking through the comments hoping someone had made this point. So many times in life people get away with abusing others just because they're attractive, wealthy, charming, etc. Because no one believes that "someone like that" could be abusive and terrible. I'm by no means trying to imply that only attractive people can be abusive, or that all attractive people are. But there are toxic, abusive people who use being conventionally attractive as a shield, and people get hurt or remain stuck in terrible situations for longer, because no one looks beyond the shield; no one WANTS to believe something bad about someone that seems superficially perfect. So I think it's important to sometimes see villains that aren't stereotypically "ugly". To show the ways in which smart predators can and will weaponize anything to achieve their ends. And society enables that.
Exactly! We should be wary of others, even if they have a beautiful face they might not have a beautiful heart.
Yes! The halo effect causes us to think beautiful people are good people. And in reverse, that disabled and stereotypically unattractive people are villain coded. I found Nimona to be one of the first movies that breaks this trend. (Highly recommend it!!!)
Yep, yep
I honestly don't think that Snow was "too hot" in the movie. Obviously charisma and attractiveness are not mutually exclusive, but it's much easier for a person to have charisma if they are also attractive, and I think that can help explain how he got so much power in the first place. Also: hot people can be villains too. Just because someone is hot, that doesn't mean they're a good person. (Also, I'm sure the filmmakers knew that him being hot would help them sell more tickets to their young mostly female fanbase)
the stupid thing about the too hot argument is that he’s constantly called good looking in the books. It would have been bad casting for him to be unattractive
It also ignores that the character was already played by an actor in Donald Sutherland with a very suave look and charm about him.
Yeah! We are so used to the halo effect causing us to assume attractive people are more likely to be good. It’s been ingrained in society for a very long time. In the Victorian era it was especially explicit. Having Snow be hot and seem likable simply through his charisma is not a flaw, it’s a statement.
Exactly. There are plenty of shitty people that are attractive and successful. In fact, you’re more likely to be successful and well-liked if you’re attractive in the first place.
Plus I thought the actor was really good at the kind of dead eyed look that I imagined snow having when I read the book.
suzanne collins is genuinely a literary genius and deserves the pulitzer prize argue with the wall. the third act of tbosas was so insanely well written. SPOILERS the way she writes snow’s descent into paranoia and madness in the woods looking for lucy and how SHE LITERALLY BECOMES THE CHARACTER FROM THE POEM. don’t get me started on olivia rodrigo’s song
olivia's song is so good and fitting for lucy gray
this book and movie were written for teens and you can definitely tell. It's really basic and moves way too fast, in both cases.
@@CamJames sure, yes it is written for a young adult audience for teenagers to understand. it is not written for adults with more complicated vocabulary and descriptive language however, do not discount it because it is a young adult book aimed at teenage girls. personally, i have read orwell and vonnegut and all of the more contemporary classics, and collins is truly on that list for me. she exercises a very educated and complicated understanding of the world and files it down to make it understandable to teenagers. you could spend hours analyzing collins' work and i think too many people discount it just because of its target audience.
@@CamJames the characters are literally teenagers 🤡, obviously they would sound and act like a teenager, both in the trilogy and the prequel
AMENN
I think Tigris was crucial for the lense through which we look at Snow. Snow and Tigris both went through war, they witnessed some truly horrific things, Tigris probably had it worse even (she alludes to being forced to become a sex worker so they wouldn't starve), but she doesn't let it turn her into a terrible person. She treats people with kindness and we know she stays that way because, obviously, she comes back in the last moments of the original trilogy to help Katniss when it matters most. Coriolanus is an elitist narcissist who doesn't understand the concept of empathy and only cares about his status
Haymitch IS, indeed, attractive 😂 you’re validated
My friends and I call him slaymitch
I’m 17 and I’m obsessed with hunger games and watch the movies multiple times a year every year and this year marks the turning point in my life in which I’ve started to find Haymitch attractive and genuinely i don’t know how I feel about it🫣
@@kinleyharris6076it’s totally normal no worries! He’s intelligent, kind of broken but honest about it, and he wholeheartedly supports katniss and peeta. Totally a dad-figure.
As a lesbian ace, yes. Yes he is. Hee looks good.
@wishpaw2201 I'm lesbian too but why do all the male characters in thg look so hot
SPOILERS FOR TBOSBAS
imo the quote “it’s the things we love most that destroy us” was a perfect way to end the movie because it has a double meaning. Snow is a narcissist, someone who can manipulate anyone, including himself, to believe a lie. he has convinced himself that Lucy’s betrayal is what ‘destroyed’ him, thereby cleverly omitting full responsibility for his actions. on the other hand, to the viewer, this quote from Snow is really a prophesy for the poetic justice he will receive later because of Katniss and the rebellion. in TBOSBAS, Snow’s closest on screen relationships are with Lucy and Sejenus. Snow betrays Sejenus by using the jabberjay, and his betrayal haunts him when the mockingjays echo Sejenus’ cry after he dies. The mockingjays later also literally mock him when he is looking for Lucy in the woods after her betrayal, when they sing her songs to him. Lucy introduces Snow to the hanging tree song, the meadow song, and so many more that will later be used in the revolution. furthermore, Lucy’s final words to Snow in the movie are “I’m going to pick some Katniss”. Snow betrays both Lucy & Sejenus because he lusts for power more than human connection. imagine the absolute shiver Snow must have felt when a girl from district 12 named Katniss sings the meadow song, makes reckless decisions of rebellion just like Sejenus, and who eventually becomes the literal Mockingjay, symbol of the revolution. Katniss resembles EVERYTHING Snow cared about (in his own sick and twisted way) in Sejenus and Lucy, and Katniss is the genesis of his undoing.
The things Snow loved most (Sejenus, Lucy, and Power) did indeed destroy him.
thank you for coming to my ted talk.
Thank you for holding it!
This is the first interpretation that I really like of this quote. I feel like it also really shows off how Snow has chosen a path of distrust and authoritarianism. There is no trust, no inherent good, no optimism, no love. There is only power in his eyes. Caring for others is something he sees as a weakness. Katniss proves him wrong. She rebels by loving Rue, by saving Peeta, by mourning the deaths of other tributes, by CARING. She is strong through her bonds to other people, and through her ability to get people to trust and believe in her. She is everything Snow rejected. Love is a radical force that fascists despise. So are trust and hope. Katniss and snow are true opposites.
You are amazing, Great interpretation!
You put it so much better than I could. We, as outside viewers, are being shown how messed up he is. We are not being asked the believe it was Lucy's fault.
Yes thank you, I agree 100%!
I think Snow was described as a handsome man in the book so it makes sense that the actor is so hot
The actor who plays Pres. Snow in the trilogy is also a handsome older man, so it all creates visual flow through the movies as well. Jason Schwartzman could totally be related to Stanley Tucci too!
It makes sense that young Snow was hot because ideally, you would elect a leader that is charismatic@@jacforswear18
I really wish Suzanne Collins would do cash grabs, I want more about everyone! I literally can’t get enough 😂
she has too much integrity for that
@@a.a677 this book is a cashgrab. the third novel in HG was a chasegrab
When he says that is the things we love most that destroy us, I think it was never about him loving Lucy but about his love for POWER destroying his humanity. Also, as someone else said here: how everyone who loved Snow was destroyed and then how in the originals books he uses the people Katniss loves to try to destroy her.
My opinion of the quote: he believes his “love” for Lucy or Sejanus made him weak and he almost lost everything because of it. He helped Lucy because of his “love” for her and got exiled to district 12. He was constantly helping Sejanus because of his “love.” He essentially blames them for his momentary fall from Grace. Therefore, he refuses to get close or live because he doesn’t want to risk everything important to him again or appear weak.
I put love in quotation because I don’t think he every really loved anyone.
*spoilers* i love how it doesn’t make us feel bad for coriolanus, we like him near the beginning, but we get the betrayal and villain origin near the end and it all makes sense, it builds on snows character and why he did what he did
Yes!!!! My friend was worried it’ll be whitewashing a villain story, I was hoping it won’t be, and it wasn’t! It was really - a chain of choices he made, excluding them by “I had no choice” each time, while he did have a choice most of the time. It just made such a total sense. He was so damn scary and just repulsive in scene in the forest, by that point he became someone we can’t sympathize with. I loved this movie and the acting too!
Something small in the movie that I really enjoyed was when Lucky randomly interrupted his commentary on the game to start talking about the weather. It's such a disturbingly funny way to show that the Hunger Games are something normal in this society, that many people in the Capitol don't question its existence at all.
Also it helped build that it was prior in time to the hunger games. The host had multi jobs and what about when he cancels his dinner reservation😅
I refused to read this book for 3 years because everything about it went against all the headcannons I had formed in my head for years, but since I am a pigeon and the hype got me, I have bought it and will be reading it soon before maybe going to see the movie. I can't let the opportunity of a new Hunger Games movie pass me by, my 14 year old self would never forgive me.
What were your headcanons? I'm curious now hahaha
@@Ana_Paula.Frassonme too!
I finished it like three days ago and omg you have to see it
@@wise.girl. I'll read the book first then see if it's worth it
If you liked the hunger games you will like this movie and book, I would see the movie first so you can watch it as a stand alone and not be making comparisons to the book the whole time!!!
haymitch is SO attractive-the most attractive character, i would argue. he’s always been my favourite: nine-year-old me was so drawn to him and i’m not sure why
He’s a tortured dude but also a dad kind of guy and he really loved his girlfriend, lost her and then helped save katniss and peeta which, dream
Uhhh thats kinda weird..
@@cheeryberrieNot really. It's normal for kids to have crushes on adults, especially when it's someone they look up to.
I personally really liked the ending of tbosbas when we heard the old snow say his iconic line because to me it showed what conclusion SNOW made out of his past and how it influenced his thinking in the hunger games, connecting the movies.
SAME!!! VERY WELL SAID!
My thoughts on the quote were that it was directed less towards his romance with Lucy Gray and more towards the fact that his greed for power and loyalty to the capital destroyed his relationships and everything good that he had. Because the quote is “it’s the things we love MOST that destroy us” which I thought could be referring to how his love of the capitol overrode his love of other things like Lucy Gray and Sejanus.
The eras are defrosting like there's no tomorrow 😭love it
I feel that point about Haymitch, too xD It's only natural, really. You get older and it would be way more weird to still think of those half-adults and teenagers as hot :D
@@ritatouilles00haha spoilers for aging? 😂
"Its the things we love the most that destroy us" Snow didn't say thing to mean that Lucy Gray who he loved made him evil by betraying him. He meant he loved her so much that he was going to destroy the powerful man he could (and would) become in order to be with her.
Great video !
I believe the quote 'It's the things we love most, that destroy us.' is not that much about Lucy's betrayal of Snow leading him to become a villan. It appears that the idea of the quote is more "It's the love we have for things that destroys us". Ultimately, Snow's affection for Lucy is what prevents him from fully succeeding in his endeavors. It is easy to get rid of things standing in his way when they mean nothing to him, but when it's the things he loves, then it becomes impossibly difficult, to the point of destroying a part of him as well.
I also think if we want to look at it through the lens of relationships- it's not just about Lucy. I think Sejanus at least is part of that and even Tigris and grand ma'am.
"Why do we need a villain origin story?" - the real question here is...why do we NOT need a villain origin story? I definitly need more of those!
When they are well made like this case and Joker, Disney always F…s them up all the time.
@@sarizonana Joker is not well made.
@@nont18411 whaaat?
Joker was really well made, it’s one of the best villains origin stories ever brought to the big screen.
@@sarizonana When has Disney done it?
Re: sympathy for Snow
I think what Suzanne did was really smart because it showed that even though he had some harsh circumstances growing up, he is deep down an evil person and at no point did it make me feel pity for him or "justify his acts."
Even his lack of flexibility in fitting in within the Capitol and its changing dynamic (people from districts moving in, ascension of different families, etc); how he sees every relationship as a transactional act, and his need to make everything and everyone about him and his needs was EXTREMELY frustrating - I was almost hoping Dr. Gaul would set some snakes on him
Actually i think at the beginning he felt for Lucy and kind of cared for Sajeanus made him and it’s what made him likable. and then boom sajeanus dies and Snow turn into a villain that makes the film effective.
This film thought Disney how to create a good origin story for a villain, here the direction wasn’t afraid to go all the way, Disney with Cruella and Maleficent felt like okay let’s make a villain’s origin story but then they go like no I liked her too much, let’s just then do a reimagined tale.
Here the hunger games Ballad of songbirds and snakes delivered what it promised, first made us root for while for Snow to latter making us hate him. The film wasn’t afraid to show us the switch when the protagonist turns into the man of the first trilogy.
I so agree. From the very first page Snow is clearly lacking genuine connection or care for people. There is no point in the book he ever has a single genuinely caring thought about another person.
The book isn't about Snow becoming evil, it's about watching general aimless evil being shaped and polished to a point to charge down the path Snow eventually went.
He was never going to be a good person but it was his own choices, and those of the people that took notice of him, that lead him to the exact type of evil he was in the original trilogy.
As a 30 y.o. teenager (at least when it comes to media I consume), I feel you girl. I'm consciously staying away from this book cause I'm not ready to relapse.
P.S. and yes, Peeta team all the way💪 shit, I'm relapsing.
As a 29 year old teenager, I fully relapsed last year when I re-watched all of the original movies with a friend who had never seen them before. So I just spent the entire time super analyzing the movies for her and telling her all the details and easter eggs that she didn't know about 😂
@@mcedwards you were on an educational mission, that's a valid reason
Idk I never felt these were teenage books. And I also thought the whole team thing is irrelevant in hunger games cause Katniss simply had too much to deal with to be in actual love triangle. She wasn’t in a triangle and wasn’t in search for romance, she wanted family.
Plus Gale ended being a war criminal. So screw him all the way 😅
@@Tesis I'd say they are rather dark, but still appropriate for late teens. I read them at 18. I strongly believe that a good book can be enjoyed at any age even if it's for kids anyway.
I guess Katniss would've been in a love triangle if she had any time/emotional capacity for that. The components were there: two guys with feelings, she cares about both, but thankfully the plot focused on some more pressing issues. So the whole triangle thing kinda resolved itself. Gale being a war criminal helped, of course (ok, not funny, rip Prim).
I think it's actually really important to make the villain human, and that means making them somewhat sympathetic. casting the villain as pure evil removes him from reality in a way that makes it seem like real people can't get to that point. I haven't seen the movie or read the book yet, so I don't know the specifics of Snow's portrayal, but it makes a lot of sense to me that he would come across as sympathetic in a way.
I think portraying snow as sympathetic at first fits very well with the way president coin shows how easy it is to slip into moral bankruptcy. It's more of a cautionary thing if you can understand the villain's motives.
yes!! I rewatched the trilogy with my sister this weekend and i dont remember what exactly what we were talking about but she said "snow's still a human though" and i said "is he?" because in my mind he was just a monster. the next day i bought ballad of songbirds and snakes and I'm only on part two right now and hes immediately so much more human to me, even sympathetic to a point. Like I have to continuously remind myself who he is. Its such an unsettling feeling.
I simped for Haymitch since day 1 and I still do, you're not alone😅
This movie was just so good. I got chills multiple times while watching. The way that Lucy Gray goes on to haunt him for the rest of his life and comes back to him through Katniss all those years later is just so clever. Such a good villain origin story!!
I'm gonna start saying "I'm only a 26-year-old teenager" to justify my actions 😂
So I'm not alone.
The saddest part of Katniss’s romance is the fact that Katniss did not want a romance, she wanted a family, she wanted support, but she did not want romantic love. I loved Katie Colson’s discussions of the book from her asexual lens, highly recommend her Hunger Games video
Oh,what exactly is the video called if you happen to know it? I'd love to watch it
@@snowguardian4766same!
Wouldn’t that mean she’s on the Aro spectrum as well? Asexual is not having sexual attraction to anyone, asexual ppl can still fall in love, they just don’t want sexual intimacy. Aromantic means you don’t experience romantic feelings. So Katniss would fall under the Aro/ace spectrum, not asexual
@@yourlocalToeMuncher hey yes, but the ace spetrum includes de aro identities you can abbreviate to ace spectrum instead of saying asexual and aromantic spectrum
@@rita.sotero but ace and Aro are different “Aro/ace” is easier, plus as someone who is ace, I wouldnt want to be called Aro. Because Aro and ace are different and by calling them both ace you leave out many identities.
The movie was amazing. I want to rewatch it again right now 😭 Also Snow: Hot. Lucy Grey: Hot. My Bi soul can’t handle this. I’m ready to order all the books and movies and watch/read them in order
Tigris omfg
I avoided The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes until last week because of all the reviews I read/watched when it first came out, and to those people, I can honestly say - I am so sorry their limited worldview prevented them from appreciating this book for what it is. I admit, the hype around the movie got to me in the end and I finally picked up the audiobook just before the movie release because I trusted the filmmakers to make an adaptation as good as the one they did for the original trilogy. I literally finished the book a day before the premiere and I took a day off from work to catch the earliest possible viewing and avoid the crowds :D
And let me tell you, I was SO PLEASED!!! The book proves once again why Suzanne Collins is a queen of nuanced, morally ambiguous characters, even more so here than in the original series. I absolutely loved the book, and I am so happy the movie did it justice. The changes were fairly minimal and they made sense - it is not easy to adapt a story that relies so heavily on the internal monologue of the main character. They translated everything crucial onto the screen beautifully.
I would not necessarily call Snow´s character hot (not even in the movie, he´s not really my type) but I absolutely experienced moments of sympathy for his character. I caught myself thinking about what would I have done in similar circumstances, whether I would have made different choices, and if I am perfectly honest, I was not always sure. When his arc is put in perspective, it is not quite so easy to dismiss him as a purely villainous character. How much was his disposition and how much was the environment he lived in? Was it a natural evolution of his character or systematic grooming? This is what I love about this story - it poses serious moral dilemmas and has the characters act in a realistic way.
I remember loving Katniss´s arc because she didn´t feel like a prototypical hero, but rather someone with believable impulses (both noble and selfish ones), and this story proved to be just as powerful, or even more so. Personally, I would say the original trilogy is a more interesting read plot-wise, but The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes is a superior character study.
Needless to say, I am already planning a second trip to the cinema :D
i went to see the movie yesterday and it basically destroyed my ability to function because of renewed hunger games obsession, oh well
I’m not even kidding I read the Ballard of songbirds and snakes watched the movie and am so back into my Hunger Games bag. I also re watched the movies this week and sobbed when Katniss volunteered as tribute like I’ve never watched the movies and didn’t know it was coming, man turning 30 and hormones is weird I was crying so much like I didn’t watch those movies so many times as a teenager haha
I think the emphasis on the love betrayal quote was intended to show that he can't take any responsibility for his choices. He can't face his own inhumanity - that he was willing to blame the person he loved (or thought he loved) in exchange for something else he wanted, which also ties back in to how everything is a tradeable commodity for him, including her.
I totally felt you with the inner monologue part!! He felt too good felt too genuine in his friendship with Sejanus even the ending!! I loved seeing him argue with himself “Put the gun down.” when he and Lucy Gray were in the cabin. I 10000% feel you with the ending especially because we don’t get to hear him waring with himself and finally convincing himself that this was the best option. He justifies a lot of his own actions in the book and somehow convinces himself he’s in the right each time and i would have loved to see that translated to film
SPOILER WARNING
I totally agree! His internal dialogue is so important to his character development but it makes sense that they couldn't that include it in the movie. As for his interactions with Sejanus I agree that the movie didn't really emphasize Snow's distaste enough. The scene that really got me about that is when Snow is sobbing after Sejanus' death. In the movie, it's this moment where Snow regrets making his only friend die, but in the book his entire breakdown is because he doesn't want to die. He is more concerned about the guns being discovered than the fact that he literally just betrayed a guy who considers him as a brother. And Snow didn't even seem all that concerned about it, he was only concerned about himself. I think it was really the third act where his inner monologue became really important to me and Sejanus is a really good example of that.
The quote "It's the things we love most, that destroys us. " just points to from Corio's vuew that the thing he loved the most and honestlt that is power and control that ultimately destroyed his past self(although he was still a narcissist but in the sense of like no turning back and becoming completely and ebtirely self-centered). It destroyed all his relationships to his near and dear ones Lucy, Serjanus and Tigres.
Also, can you talk about what your thoughs are on Lucy surviving or not and if she did like is she related to Katniss in any way and where she went etc.
I LOVED the movie. It doesnt pander to
nostalgia. You see snow's manipulative personality from scene 1. He loved being on a high horse and yet essentially only ever did things to benefit himself. Hes sharp but so scary. I loved seeing the world building of panem and how we see everything in its older form.
I think one of the downsides of the movie's fast pacing takes away Snow and Lucy Gray's relationship and how it actually forms. You talk about this in the video, but I agree that we kinda lose a heavy chunk of the absolute narcissistic insanity that is Snow's inner thoughts.
As for the "it's the things we love most that destroy us," I think it's perfect for Snow to say that! It's like he actively believes he was betrayed because how on earth can he be the problem LOL
I 100% encourage anyone who has yet to watch The Ballad of The Songbirds & Snakes to go watch it!! You don't want to miss out on seeing it on the big screen
Me who definitly did not watch it online on a sketchy website: 👀
Yes, I'm currently back in my Hunger Games phase, and will drop everything to watch this video!
I think this was a story of how an inherently selfish young man with a traumatic past and borderline psychotic tendencies became a powerful dictator. Despite Snow’s inner monologue being unhinged at times, you can see how he was a natural politician from the beginning, he had the potential to become a good leader.
We also see that he has developed much of his outward personality as a sort of survival mechanism. Existing as a poor person in the capitol is an almost “social” hunger games.
His behavior becomes increasingly drastic and narcissistic throughout the plot of both book and movie. At one point when he is still in the capitol he sustains a couple of concussions which could have been a catalyst for his later paranoia and mental decline.
the movie was perfect, all of the details like the shot of the box of rat poison in the first scene and snow drinking tea in one of the final scenes like we see him doing throughout the hunger games trilogy (which confirmed the rumor/theory he poisons himself) really stood out to me. the cast was incredible, rachel’s voice is incredible and the emotion she put behind every song was exactly like lucy gray and the emotion she was able to invoke in everyone who watched her in the games. like you said, i already want to go back to the theatre and see it again!
Last night I watched the whole trilogy and I cried, laughed and enjoyed as it was my first time watching it
I too am a 26 year old teenager and my obsession with the whole Hunger Games world has reignited since I reread the trilogy and then also the ballad of songbirds and snakes in the beginning of the year.
The way Suzanne Collins builds her world and tells this story is just GENIUS and I could go on about it forever. The movies are fantastic as well.
Rediscovering the series as an adult, I really grasped the whole concept much better and how eerily similar it is to what is actually happening in our world.
I watched The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes on Friday! I thought the first and second act were good and the third act was a bit rushed. I recognized many scenes from the book. Tom Blyth did great playing Snow and Viola Davis was a scene stealer. Now I am contemplating watching the movie again.
I just finished reading the original trilogy for the first time yesterday which I picked up after watching your Battle Royale video - I'm 27 but for whatever reason the Hunger Games passed me by as a teenager. Now I can't wait to read Songbirds and Snakes and watch all of the films! Thanks Leonie for getting me to finally fill in this gap in my reading history
the part that tore me about the Ballad was how Coryo reacted when his mother's compact was destroyed- calling it 'nasty paste', his cold relegation of it to the trash- It hit me more so even than his the murders he committed.
I like to think that Snows quote "its the things we love most that destroy us" is not only about Lucy. But for example also about Sejanus and other people who he had to leave behind to reach his goals. He felt betrayed by some people he cared about because their actions did not help his ambition.
Saw the movie last night and it made me want to read the book. So. Good.
I think the quote at the end "the things we love most" showcases that Snow has a warped view of love bc his love for Lucy is very possessive and he was destroyed by her betrayal even though her betrayal was warranted.
It's interesting hearing your perspective upon first reading the books. I always had the feeling that Coin wore a facade. She was the other side of the coin. She was just as authoritarian as Snow, but made it seem as if she was the good guy fighting to change the world. But you could see beneath the mask she wore when she and Katniss went head to head with another. She despised Katniss because she knew she wasn't someone who would bow down and take orders, so she appealed to the side of her that hungered for revenge. She rescued the other victors and pardoned them when it was readily apparent that they were traumatized/brainwashed victims of the Capital. I've also suspected that sent Prim on purpose with the intention that she would die in the blast.
yeah heavy on the last part with prim, if i remember correctly at least in the movie snow implies or hints, something to that effect, to katniss that coin killed prim and it wasn't an accident. it was one of few moments in the movie that showed her questionable motives and goals, and definitely yeah she had such a facade throughout it all. she's such an interesting part of the story imo, because the power vacuum left behind after snow would absolutely be tempting to those in search of power. gives me chills when they have that conversation where coin is wanting to reinstate the hunger games all over again- felt like more depth than just having one big bad guy who is evil just bc he's evil, and more like a social commentary by demonstrating how insidious these figures really are
@@gracesull78756I think that’s what really sets THG apart from other YA dystopians. It’s a social commentary on so many different facets of society from the 1% (and their continued tone deafness bc of being raised in a shelter environment), class struggle (esp when you look at the merchants and seam bc both were still close to starving but upon first look you think the merchants are rich and privileged), the exploitation of labor and distribution of goods, greed/power and how it corrupts, and just so many other wonderful things that you never stop to consider when you’re 12-14 years old reading it.
It just always seemed interesting and too convenient that you’d send a barely trained 13yro into the field as a field medic. Coin needed Katniss blindly angry at Snow and too bereaved to think clearly bc then she’d side with her, and it would be easy to snatch the metaphorical throne with the support of the Mockingjay. She already missed/failed at her opportunity to murder her, so she had to find another way to gain her backing. I also think it was a way to punish Katniss for not being an obedient little soldier, sort of like how Snow murdered victors families to keep them in line. Like I think 13 wasn’t able to see how they were living under a militaristic dictatorship bc they didn’t know anything different, and viewed Coin as a benevolent figure trying to free them from their underground prison and liberate the country from the Capitol.
My obsession with hunger games is coming back just bc of the hype of the movie. I haven't read the new book and haven't watched the movie yet but yeah the obsession is real
I actually had such a different experience with the movie and book. I absolutely loved the book, how slow it is, how it takes its time to explain every little thing that made the president snow we know in the future. I loved hearing his thoughts, because it showed so much of the potential of what he could become. That's exactly then what was missing for me in the movie. I enjoyed it enough but the condensation of it actually made me like it less. I missed all the details that were lost. And while I do think the actors did a phenomenal job, I just, and I hate to say it, prefer the book. But I find it so interesting how so many other people received it and their opinions after watching the movie. Love to hear your take on it.
I don’t think that final Snow quote is necessarily referencing Lucy Gray, but more so Snow’s obsession with being seen as powerful and higher than. He loves the feeling of power, and doing whatever it takes to feel that power over others, and ultimately that is a toxic poison that slowly destroys him as we see him in Mockingjay.
I just saw it and the final quote felt more about Lucy's death to me. About how if she didn’t love him she would still be alive
The move was fantastic at every level! Cinematography, acting, storytelling. Rachel was off the charts and essential. (Hope this shakes off the Snow White controversy) My only dislike is I wished they'd carried out a love story in act three and have more time for Snow to arc in an additional film. Perhaps they thought they wouldn't get that chance so they forced it. But overall it's amazing!
Something I missed a lot in the movie, which corelates to the missing internal monolouge, is Snows absolute hatred towards the mockingjays. I feel like that's a plot point which makes the OG trilogy even more interesting. Just as the missing meadows song, this is an obvious reason why Snow doesn't like Katniss and I wanted more of that.
Anyway AMAZING work with this video, really looking forward to next week!
Had a cozy vibe overdose when the rain started on the second day of your review 😭
I personally believe that the character Dorian, from The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde, is one of the earliest examples of an attractive morally, gray . So could you do a reading vlog on reading that book? I know it's a classic and a little intimidating - but if you listen to the audio book it's so easy to get through! I was hooked and blown away by the first page! 💛
Corio reminds me a lot of Dorian Gray, to be honest. His heart is broken and he gives up on human sympathies. For Dorian and Corio it happens in different ways, but they both have influences (Lord Henry? And The Capitol society itself) that shaped them to lean into their selfish nature as a matter of survival which turns extreme after tragedies.
I LOVED the movie too! I only really missed the powerful quote: “It is not over until the Mockingjay sings” (from TBOS&S book)🔥🕊Great video Leonie!
not sure if ill read tbosas yet but really intrigued by this quote- do you mind sharing the context if you remember ?
@@gracesull78756 When the capitol executes someone in District 12, the Mockingjay’s (birds) would repeat the last words of the dying person, turning it to a melody (we see this in the movie when Sejanus is hung). This is from TBOS&S book:
[Lucy] “The show’s not over until the Mockingjay sings,” she said.
[Snow] “The Mockingjay?” He laughed. “Really, I think you’re just making these things up.”
[Lucy] “Not that one. A mockingjay’s a bona fide bird,” she assured him.
[Snow] “And it sings in your show?” he asked.
[Lucy] “Not my show, sweetheart. Yours. The Capitol’s anyway.”
So, “the show is not over till mocking jays sing”, basically means that the execution/life is not over until the Mockingjays do their thing. It is most importantly referring to the original trilogy & Katniss who’s nickname is literally ‘the rebellious Mockingjay’ (Katniss starts a revolution against the capitol, proving that ‘the mockingjay’ always have the last word). But there are many more things that hint towards this symbolic sentence: for example, at the end of the new film when Snow goes crazy and tries to shoot Lucy/the Mockingjays in the trees that sing ‘the hanging tree song’. I hope that this helps :)
@@Fandomzz_EDITgood explaination!
O my god, yesterday I watched ballad of songbirds and snakes and Snow‘s character development is sooo good! I love it and I need to read the book 🤩
Personally i loved the film but I wish the third act got a bit more time to breathe, maybe establishing the covey more, maybe showing maude ivory's similarities to prim, or establishing snows hatred for mockingjays which really make it seem like snow's past is back to haunt him with katniss. I was also a bit disappointed that they cut snow getting Lucy the guitar and the scene where he is trying to eat enough at the event so he doesn't starve but not so much that he seems poor, it humanised him quite a lot I thought. I get why the scenes would have dragged the length out but I would watch an extended cut. I really liked the songs, they were what drew me to the book so I'm pleased they were given so much focus and the actress has a wonderful voice, perfect for Lucy.
i always saw the use of the quote "it's the things we love most that destroy us" as snow reflecting that HE destroyed lucy? i am now questioning my interpretation but i saw it as it solidifying the fact that he thinks we shouldn't love or care about anyone because people always have an ulterior motive and he taught that lesson to lucy and now is trying to teach it to katniss. especially bc in the book i don't ever see him truly 'loving' lucy gray as much as him believing he 'owns' her and therefore loves that she is his. idk if i've explained this right bc its hard to put my thoughts together ahaha
i have so many things i wanna say about this book but all i can do is incoherent noises every single time i think about it. it's SO GOOD. suzanne collins, you did it again!! but i do need to talk about how peeta is so much like lucy gray - they're both performers, they know how to charm the capitol and how to come up with believable lies if they have to and people fall for their charm, but it all comes from a place of love and trying to survive and protect loved ones. and katniss is so much like sejanus - they're both very passionate about doing the right thing often not caring if they're putting themselves in danger, and they act more impulsively since they're led by emotion and such a strong sense of justice and in doing the right thing. and i love how later on snow completely misinterprets who katniss and peeta are because of how he sees lucy gray - a liar, a trickster, someone who used him, who lied to the capitol just to win the games - and sejanus - someone who acts based on his emotions thus is seen as stupid by snow (and in the beginning he doesn't pay much attention to peeta because of that, he sees as a fool in love acting based solely on his emotions), and how he fails to control katniss and only see how wrong he got them both when the quarter quell already began.
Girl your video inspired me to reread and rewatch all the original trilogy, then read and watch BSS and finally here I am 😅 busiest week of my life haha
I had another interpretation of "it's the things we love most, that destroy us". Snow's love of power, wealth, and prestige destroyed him, particularly his chance at happiness by running away with Lucy. From Snow's perspective, he was probably talking about Lucy and his cynical worldview of love, but I think it had a double meaning directed toward the audience.
I just watched the movie. Just got home. I don't know why, but I feel more disturbed snd anxious after watching this movie than the original series. Made me feel like how I was feeling when I read the original books. I wasn't mentally and emotionally in a good place when I read the first books, and it made me anxious for weeks after. I feel similar to that after watching this movie. Not that I didn't like it, omg, it was amazing. I don't know if I wanna read the book now though.
that's strange, for me I felt like this movie couldn't replicate the emotions I still feel from the original 3. This hopeless, bleak, uncomfortable feeling, the closest I got to feeling it was during the 10th hunger games scenes but I just didn't get the same vibe. It was still really good though, and some scenes were more disturbing than the original imo
While I do think that in Snow's quote he's referring to people I like to think that is a bit ambiguous so that the audience can get to the conclusion that Snow's love for power is what destroyed him and his relationships with the people he loved
Slaymitch definitely got significantly more attractive as ive gotten older and knowing what a cunning and deep character he was in the book, that they didnt portray in the movie
Can't wait for the deepdive! I love discussing the spoilery scenes of this book and movie with my friend and also hearing other people's opinions and what they noticed :)
I just finished the book on Friday, gave it 5 stars and watched the movie in the cinema yesterday. I love it!! The nostalgia along with a great new story was just so much fun
Im glad that the movie has given some people more appreciation for exactly what the book was trying to do. I remember as I was reading it, thinking a lot of this may translate better to screen and help connect the dots for an audience. The book can get a bit meandering at times and there are sections that are hard to get through but again I kind of felt like that was intentional. I think some of it was Suzanne Collins almost pointing a mirror on the hunger games audience that may have gotten too much enjoyment out of the children killing children plot of the original trilogy. When we didn’t have those high gruesome stakes people were less interested.
i actually really enjoyed the quote at the end. i do agree that it does kinda seem like lucy gray made him turn evil, but honestly hearing the President Snow’s voice come on at the end made my jaw drop
i think the quote at the end of the movie fits perfectly for two reasons: 1) Snow was wrong about love and Katniss proved that in the og triology. In TBOSAS, had Snow followed the path of love and chosen to stay with Lucy Gray then his ending wouldve been drastically different. 2) We are assuming that what Snow loved most was Lucy Gray and thats what ultimately destroyed him but Snow never loved Lucy Gray the most. He never loved anyone more than he loved himself and what destroyed him was his own narcissistic actions in the end of both TBOSAS and Mockingjay. He could never catch Katniss or Lucy Gray (assuming Licy Gray didnt die and ran away instead) because they were his parallel.
An hour ago I went to see the movie, and it was pure perfection!
I loved the chemistry between Corio and Lucy Gray. I also liked how the movie was so similar to the book, and depicted the characters and the atmosphere so beautiful!
My sister didn’t want to watch it with me, but by the end of the movie, she was fascinated and she said that Snow was so hot, I agree with her😁
Happy that people enjoyed the movie and the book as much as I did!
I didn’t take the end quote to be in that way. I took it as, the things we love most are our weaknesses and so we must destroy them if we want to become invincible. But I get how people could interpret that line differently. I think the majority of people thought it that way since I’ve seen multiple posts on social media asking why Lucy betrayed Snow. It wasn’t betrayal- it was the time to end things. They were never going to be a thing, and she was smart enough to realize how dangerous he was.
I just started reading this book yesterday and you go and drop this video. PERFECT timing, and I’m even more excited to see the movie now! I will watch any and all the Hunger Games related content you make, bless.
Giiirrl, i'm so like you! I still cant stop talking and thinking about the movie and the book, and it's been almost 2 months i watched it... I read the book after watching the movie, and i really need to re-watch this movie but i feel after rewatching i'm gonna re-read the book, because i feel like there's a lot of stuff going on with coriolanus that we dont get to see in the movie and the book tell us about him.. it's like movie and book complement each other!
i'm obssessed with this story once again just like you, and i love your videos, they just feed my need to talk about this story ! Thanks!
Loooove this review! So entertaining and so well done! You just became one of my new favs on YT. My interpretation of that quote from President Snow is that it refers to how the similarities between Katniss and Lucy was SO distracting he missed Coins bigger plan altogether. So, in a way, it's 100% correct - the only person he really loved DID destroy him - not in the sense of he became evil as a result of her / her betrayal (he betrayed her first BTW) but more it meant the end of his reign because as he says to Katniss at the very end - it was Coins plan all along to have us focus so much on each other that we missed what she was doing. AND in the very first chapter of TBOSBAS they allude to how his mind can fixate on something (which we know is what Katniss becomes for his) - Soooo, I actually think its the perfect link between the installments (prequal and trilogy) and 100% true in his case
6:08 "there are people that are dying, kim"
i need an analysis on snow’s character bc i feel most people (me included) don’t/didn’t fully grasp the point of this book at the beginning. so if any of my friends needed an explanation, i could just send them that video! thank u :)
the way i yelled YES when you said that peeta is the best YA book crush. finally someone understands 😩😩😩😩
🐍Snow's character analysis 🐍: czcams.com/video/6byCPzqJyf0/video.html
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watch my other Hunger Games related videos! 🐦
• A Deep Dive into the Hunger Games/Battle Royale Trope: czcams.com/video/iospJR_FyRs/video.html
• A Retrospective on the Teen Dystopian Hype: czcams.com/video/B2AFc8QONio/video.html
"It's coming back" girl for me it never left, not for a second. I've been a hardcore stan for years. But welcome back!!!!! We missed you lol
You are so not the only one lowkey throwing heart eyes at Haymitch. Just turned 30, and his attractiveness meter suddenly increased lol
I liked the emphases on the "it's the things we love that destroy us" quote (or however the exact wording goes) because it feels like that's what Snow thought, and shows how his perspective was so warped and self-centered in contrast with the reality of his situation and how he could have made different choices if what he really wanted was to be with Lucy. It's like that's what he got out of all this, and we the audience can clearly see he learned the wrong lesson
I feel like when they say, "its the things we love most, that destroy us," it's hinting that Snow loves power, manipulation, and himself above all others, and that's what ultimately destroys him. Snow doesn't realize this because he thinks rising to power is his great accomplishment. But from my perspective, his selfishness and power is what destroys the last of his love, humanity, and any goodness he had.
Love the review but respectfully I disagree with the film being better because it was fast paced vs in the book. I believe that the point of this prequel was to take the time to understand Snow’s psyche. And as a male, I really appreciated that Suzanne took the time to write about these issues that “boys to men” go through like having a first love, pressures of taking care of your loved ones as the man of the house, the threat of your lineage disappearing/not living up to your name, male physical appearances when Snow joined the peacekeepers and contemplating suicide. I think these are issues that most bypass and the general populace doesn’t care about. Therefore, I think that the book wasn’t a cash grab but the movie def was, because they failed to deliver these messages to the audience.
Yes, Peeta is charismatic, can work a crowd and is good with words/at presenting convincing arguments, which are all qualities I see in Snow. Peeta, however, has a lot of empathy, kindness and is willing to sacrifice himself for those he loves ( Snow would never!).
I also saw a lot of common characteristics between Peeta and Sejanus with their compassion, wanting to help people, generous and they both have a strong moral compass ( Snow’s is totally broken).
I am all in for the Hunger Games content ❤
I really wanted to read the book before watching the movie, so I did. Let me tell you - MASTERPIECE. So many references to the original series and it really picks your brain. I hated how the book made me love Snow and agree with him for the first half of the book. But I loved how things started clicking into place around the last few chapters - just realizing exactly how demented and delusional he was. The absolute confidence he had in his views were jarring, the hypocrisy and double standards. I went from loving him for majority of the book to hating him in a split second. You're lulled into thinking he's really sweet and thoughtful until that moment where he's in the forest with the mockingjays comes. Its only a few lines, but very quickly, you start to realize how wrong you were and how influenced by the Capitol he actually is.
Also, I keep seeing how everyone thinks Katniss is Luvy Gray reincarnated. I think Lucy Gray is a combination of Peeta and Katniss. The movies lead you to believe that Katniss is the one doing the heavy lifting, that Peeta is some defenseless little lamb (i call it the Ron Weasley syndrome) but in the books you really get to see exactly how tacticle Peeta is. Lucy Gray has Katniss's fire and grit - her street smart. But she's also really good at reading people and rallying support for herself. She's a show woman, she knows exactly how to get people to trust her, she knows how to play to her strengths of acting all sweet, like when she interacted with the children first instead of the adults. Peeta is exactly like that, and you can see it with the interviews in the Hunger Games (Baby Bomb, "Do I smell like roses?") and also the way he tried to appeal to the Capitol citizens by waving at them from the train.
Just all in all, its so funny how Lucy Gray came to bite Snow in his ass in the form of Peeta and Katniss
Just went and saw this last night, was so happy to see you post this video!
I love the way you always talk about these topics, you sound so smart :)
Snow's shirt off at home scene was to create simp-athy for his character.
I’m so excited to see the movie today. I loved the book so much when I read it, cannot wait for my Hunger Games relapse!
I think “the things that we love most are what destroy us” just underlines that’s what SNOW thinks happened to him, in his narcissistic justification
I’m so happy we’re collectively going back to our Hunger Games era 😂
My Peeta obsession is also coming back.
I feel like the quote you mentioned is aimed more at the audience to hint why Katniss was able to succeed. Snow had so many opportunities to outright kill Katniss without her being a martyr in the originals, but he didn't. Lucy was Snow's soft spot and his love for Lucy kept Katniss alive, who then brought down his empire. iunno.
To me the quote at the end of the movie felt a lot like another way to see how snow has a skewed view of the world around him. To me it seemed pretty on brand that he would blame Lucy for the bad things that happened to him, for becoming more jaded. It just seemed on brand for me. But I do belive that you can only feel like that if you read the book, so even if that was the intention, it is gonna be lost on a lot of people.
And if it wasn't the intention than it is almost funny how ironic it is that the og movies give undue focus to love (love triangle), and this movie gives undue focus to love (how love destroyed snow).