Halo CE Warthog Run FIXED!!!
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- čas přidán 7. 11. 2022
- In this episode: We revisit the lore scale problem and look at a modded and fixed Halo CE Warthog Run!
Original 00 Videos:
• Lore Scale Problem - L...
• FIXING THE WARTHOG RUN...
Killzone64:
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You're out here solving the REAL mysteries in Halo. I appreciate that.
He will is!! You so right, getting older this level keeps bothering me more and more every year lol
00 literally use the work someone else did then claimed it as his own with the re-scale, weapon strengths and various other things on his channel. he never gave credit either.
if the day comes that i end up seeing one of halo's ships fully customised in a halo forge map with literally every single room in those ships decorated 1 to 1, then ill applaud and massively respect the people who managed to make this happen.
🫡
Now that we have the proportions corrected, let's remake the warthog run so that it appears to actually serve a purpose instead of being captain Keye's personal racetrack. Even the devs don't really know what purpose the warthog run track would serve in the lore. It would be great if the tunnels were leveled out and modeled to look more like a system for transporting large cargo around the ship.
I mean the ship is so large that a cargo "highway" would probably be needed to get everything around in decent time. Of course you might also prefer like a proper transit system of trains or something. But there is something low tech to be said that it's all just roadways to allow for any and all vehicle traffic to do the job in a pinch.
If you needed AA cannon shells to be delivered to the forward guns, unless you for whatever insane reason have a conveyor belt system to bring them from storage to the cannons, having a series of tunnels and courier vehicles to take them over there would be very helpful. Better then having a conga line of cadets carrying it all by hand down through a 1km labyrinth of tunnels.
That would be as simple as adding cranes and the rails to the ceiling of the "track" and making the "track" ramps more sharp and angular rather than curved. And instead of those little jumps at every pillar, have the crane's and what ever they're holding be parked there. Things like containers, Pelican wings engines and bodies and vehicles. Maybe a few missile pods and Mac Rounds.
There’s also using vehicles to get troops around to wherever they need to be along with the vehicles since anything mechanical like trains could get damaged and not work but tunnels for vehicles to drive through should be able to go even in the worst case scenario. Even debris blocking could just get something like construction vehicles to get them out of the way
i always imagined it was like the tunnels and things on the halo rings, but the human version. with pelicans and warthogs running around carrying cargo from point to point. but yeah as they are now they look barren of any evidence of that.
Emergency exit from a giant spaceship.....so what it was used for in the game???
The little bridge reminds me of engineering class; building structures out of balsa wood that need to hold weights or survive magnitudes.
its a bunch of balsa.
Shoulda been called the pillar of balsa
@@drewlop “The called it _Pillar of Balsa.”_
“What, like the cheap, flimsy wood?”
Everyone talks about the autumn being too small for the warthog run, but nobody talks about how chief walked from the bridge to the reactor room (which I assume it should be at the end of the ship) in about the same time it takes you to do the warthog run.
Agreed. Ever since I've noticed, I've felt like something was missing between the cryo chamber and the engine room, like a railway system to quickly get the Chief from A to B, and even out the length.
If you've ever played Star Wars: Jedi Outcast, there's a railway section midway through the mission "Doom Communication". It takes place inside what is basically a star destroyer and gives the ship a sense of scale.
This comment here breaks all game design laws. 😂 So true. That part makes no sense at all.
I imagine that it’s to not make the mission feel like too much of a chore to complete, as most of the time spend playing would probably have chief navigating the vast amount of corridors. And having chief getting into fire fight after fire fight, not only with Covenant forces but also the sentinels and flood. But not actually completing the mission objectives to beat the level. Plus we have to take into account the limitations of technology at the time when Halo CE was being developed and released. We didn’t have the development software or gaming engines used in today’s era, to make a lore accurate scaling of the Pillar of Autumn for not only the Warthog Run, but last mission as a whole. I imagine if CE got a full stand-alone remaster away from MCC, we probably could have a lore accurate scaling of the Autumn for a full sized level.
@@mitchellhayward6492 Let alone the fact that the communication array itself is a hotel-sized labyrinth of stacked machine rooms and catwalks [Which give the Death Star a run for its money in Osha violations.]
Now that I think about it, him riding a lightrail at some point from the bow end to the aft end would give a cannonical reason why he needs to do the warthog run. If the lightrail works, it's because the ship still has power. When he goes to blow the reactor, it knocks out power to the entire ship, forcing him to take a warthog.
I always envisioned the pillar of autumn being broken up and major sections being strewn across a debris field. That way all the crazy jumps and canyons and rolling hills would would make wayyyyy more sense
Someone else in the comments said that was the plan but that they ran out of time and resources to develop something like that.
I remember seeing those original 2 videos discussions on the lore issues with the Pillar of Autumns sizes and the design of the CE Warthog run. The fact that all this development has for revisioning & modding has been done has me mainly think of one phrase.
_"There are those who said this day would never come. What are they to say now?"_
My compliments to the modder who put in all that effort. I would hope that one day a complete version could be released.
Super cool!
I still have so many issues with the scale problem, but those mostly come from the fact I have to make models of a “light frigate” that is larger than most dreadnoughts in other settings.
The Halo universe has a bonkers sense of scale for its spaceships. For me, a real 300+ meter aircraft carrier is plenty large enough - simulating its thousands of crewmen and -women would be a hero project for some mod team.
@@Gyrfalcon312
For sure.
For this, previously, I chopped and moved around bits of the Loftus map in Paint, adding a midway switchback, but still had it end in the bow hangar (hatch just visible in the cross-section, even with side hatches) and still within 1.17 km.
The problem is the bow hangar door is only about 40 m wide, so it must be a smaller version of Longsword launching - about 50 % so.
The external access junction must be more or less where it is here, though, Whilst the 'leap of faith' ended around the (old) level of the MAC gun, pre Reach redesign (that moves it higher up)
Don't worry : it'll never be as ridiculous as what we have in the Warhammer 40K unviverse ;7
When I looked at the lore accrete Warthog Run, I realized that a section of the track ran through the hull section where the Merine's were housed, and other things were stored. If I got the chance to design the Warthog Run, certain parts of the track would by things like the cryo bay for the Merians, or the motor pool for the ship's Warthogs and Scorpions.
Marines?
No. The Merines also known as the Merians.
Spess Mehreens!
what are merians
Meereen? This isn't Game of Thrones.
I dont know if this was a fan theory or not, but I remember reading somewhere I cant recall that apparently the Autumn was originally going to be ripped apart into two sections due to the landing, which would explain in part the bridge and gap.
It's hard to say because the bridge was nicely built, it was more of a visual for what they could do at the time
@@unexpectedpigeon6654 My guess, presuming my prior post is true, is that they were rushing development and the scene in some form had been planned before the final level layout, rather than altering the scene or altering the geometry, they may have chosen ‘rule of drama’/‘MST3K Mantra’ over something which makes more sense.
There are ways I can think of to potentially ‘fix’ the area e.g. the bridge was meant to be indoors but there was extensive damage allowing Foe Hammer to fly in, but all of these would have been harder to implement.
@@tech34756 I dont know about harder. It would have mostly just been a change in the skybox. Maybe place it in an empty dorsal hanger or something.
Why wouldn't you just make that scene take place on top of the Autumn?
OMG I've literally waited years for you to come back to this subject! I remember you saying in one of those videos at looking at more scaling issues in Halo, especially surrounding the Covenant. I really hope you return to that idea at some point! Keep up the great work, it feels like you and a few others are keeping my love of halo alive despite 343's behaviour.
[TLDR; geometry on the original map in original and anniversary graphics make sense around the external bridge, it is not the only thing holding two separate halves of ship together.]
Before anyone says anything about External Access Junction 4-C (also known as the trench, or "that bloody stupid bridge") please take a minute to go back and replay the final level of Combat Evolved, stop on said bridge, take a step to the edge, and take a few seconds to look down and around. In both original and anniversary graphics, it's clear that it isn't two separate pieces of ship connected by a flimsy bridge. It is, as Cortana mentions in the level, an external access junction (perhaps a designed place for a pelican to put down and pickup/dropoff materials on this 'Class Seven Service Corridor running down the dorsal portion of the ship') and layout wise makes sense, and is most likely meant to be positioned at that little divot where hull section 2 and 3 come together, as said in video.
Other than that, great video, I've also been looking forward to trying out the remodeled warthog run ever since the original video and seeing Zach Ogdahl's spliced together revamped run. Fingers crossed that someone with both the time and talent is available to make our dreams come true.
(But please, lay off the bridge. It's suffered enough)
...No, it still doesn't make any bloody sense. The designated place for a Pelican to operate as a dropship is a special place called a "hangar", which is designed for doing exactly that and also has walls on five sides of a cube to protect vulnerable troops and gear during loading procedures. Furthermore, the Autumn was not designed to operate in atmosphere. That's not within its mission parameters, even if it is within its technical capabilities (and only technically).
Lastly, the random bloody stupid bridge (although I do love that moment in-game, despite not making any sense once you think about it for more than three seconds) is in an area that is far too spacious and far too exposed to be useful in any logical way for any purpose.
My ideas aren't necessarily good, but I often wondered if the Autumn's hard landing could have been used to justify a significant hull-stress fracture in the superstructure of the ship - since it did touch down at several hundred kilometers per hour, at least - which leads to a very messy but also very open and exposed rupture in the hull that... hypothetically... could have been used to recreate this dramatic moment.
However, 00's solution is possibly better. Scale the sucker so that it occurs at the very top of the ship, where hull sections join up. (The existence of that flimsy, random, meter-thick steel bridge though still wouldn't make any bloody sense though.)
Seeing installation 00 getting mad is the best
Very impressive and well done to solve this scaling size problem.
The CE bridge part confused me, now I finally understand now 😂
Ever since the original video you did I've been waiting to see what ever came of it, I'm so excited to see that people were actually working on it, I hope it does get finished at some point.
Have I mentioned how much I absolutely freaking love this channel! Keep it coming!
I think I remember that video 2 years ago. Glad you came back to it!
I’ve always felt that the longsword made a better bomber than a fighter.
I always had confusion about this game level. And you explained it for us. awesome!
Im so pleased for you as i was 100% behind that video. One of my faves. I follow a forger called Rejected Shotgun. Im not a modder, so i may not have a full understanding of what's involved, but when ever i watch his vids i always think of him having a go at this level. I think he's quite talented as a forger. Maybe view his staff to see if you agree
As for the hole....could it be argued that it is damage from impact and/or parts of it fell apart as the reactor is detonating?
you still never see this huge perfect undamaged gap at any point during cutscenes that show the wrecked Autumn
@@Michael-eg3rs Then again how badly the POA crashed on impact, split the ship in two and a wide beam was constructed as a bridge. Still it's silly just thinking about it.
@@SR71ABCD Who would have constructed a bridge perfect for a warthog on a downed human ship on an alien installation..?
@@OminousPinapple I mean if you want to be technical the covenant could have as they turned the autumn into a base early on based on both other sources and the book. And the humans did a raid on it to get their weapons,ammo,vehicles,fuel and food. Though if the covenant built it I would expect it to be covenant metal (aka purple/blue/pink) and if the humans built it when they did the raid, I would expect it to look like a piece of shit that was just put together in a quick moments notice and not well built.
I remember watching the og video!! Quality content as always
I always knew I wasn't the only one who saw the warthog run as a complete breaking of the Pillar Of Autumn's canon size. The bridge part was the most glaring example of that. But I didn't really start thinking about it again until after UNSC INFINITY appeared in Halo 4, especially when during a cutscene someone said the INFINITY the size of a city. That reminded me that for a ship to be that size, especially with the land vehicle the Mammoth and it's mini-MAC Gun being on board, seemed to follow a better sense of scaling than the original Halo game. I'm sure at this point if they had better funding and a little more time in development, the scaling would have been addressed but I remember in Halo REACH, the scaling was still the same which meant the developers would going to let it be set in broken stone
This scale-up makes a lot of sense in comparison to how In Amber Clad appeared in Halo 3. The Amber was half the length of the Autumn, yet looks as big in that game as the POA did in Halo CE.
Halo follower rn: Pillar of Autumn Warthog Run But it's LORE ACCURATE
As always, such a privilege to listen to your thoughts and processes.
Brand new to your channel, nice place! Just wanted to say your "installation 00" intro is beautifully done, I rewatched it a few times. Ok bye for now
Omg we got it again yay 😂 this topic never dies out I love it !
I love how people go crazy over 343 but forget about this and reach 😂
People are incredibly talented, and it blows me away.
Jesus Christ the original video was the first video of yours I seen, can’t believe that was 2+ years ago 😳😳😳 love your content though my dude keep up the great work ❤️❤️❤️❤️
same, wasnt my first video of his but was probably one of the ones that made me love his input and style
@@Wasted117. yea his input style, and definitely the way he speaks is soothing and easy to listen too
I always believed that the Autumn redesign in Reach was done with something like this in mind for a remake of Halo 1, with the ship being upscaled (judging by the bridge windows) and features added to correspond to the Warthog Run like the gap between the main hull and the cargo section and recesses that could be large "skylight" hatches. Notwithstanding where the Longsword emerges from the ship in the Halo 1 cutscene, I think there's an area in the nose of the ship that's supposed to be the massive "launch bay 7" right under the MAC gun. There's a large bay door in the front that matches the one Chief flew out of, there are three smaller hatches along each side of the ship just behind it that more-or-less match the ones the Pelicans are docked above.
Yes. Yes! YEEESSSS! DO A WHOLE ASS VIDEO ON THE 3:1 SCALE RECONCILIATION. THIS HAS BUGGED ME FOR SO LONG AND YOURE EXACTLY THE PERSON TO DO THIS RIGHT!
The most egregious of these is actually the marathon cruisers in the halo 2 anniversary intro. A single pelican is shown docking in a bay that takes up 1/4 of the ships hull length. This kind of stuff drives me crazy!!
This is amazing! Credit given to everyone involved.
That would be awesome to play this in infinite! Thanks to whoever made the mod! That was really satisfying for a lore nerd
This is the content I come for, niche shit that no one but hardcore Halo fans (like me) enjoy.
Hey dude! I'm actually recreating the pillar of autumn for the new Arma Reforger platform. I've got most of the original level done, but haven't tackled the warthog run yet and might not for a while. I'll keep you posted though as I'm making everything fit in the original hull.
keep up the great work
Holy crap this is awesome! Definitely remember the og video!
I'm still holding out hope for a Halo 4 remake with a Charon-class Dawn, Chief in Gen1 Mk VI, and just a general blend of Bungie-era and 343-era art style. Tall order, I know.
Not a remake, a reboot
For as long as I've known about the inconsistent length of the warthog run in contrast to the Autumn itself, I've felt that the mission was missing a tram section between the cyyo chamber and the engine room, to "fill in the gaps", considering how far you travel on foot from the bridge to get to the engine room, and how far you travel in a warthog the other way; something to ferry the Chief a fair distance through the Autumn. Star Wars: Jedi Outcast came out at roughly around the same time as Halo: CE and the mission "Doom Communication" had something like that midway through the mission, for no other reason than to give the player a sense of scale as to how big the ship was he was in.
I’m actually working on this exact thing on forge. Started as a playable campaign mission for the Pillar of Autumn level. Trying to make versions of this map with a firefight map, campaign mission, and multiplayer map. It’s funny to see this come up. I’ve been thinking heavily how to lay this out as I’ve only built the campaign mission so far. I’d be very interested in getting as far as I can in this project.
Finally, we can get some sound sleep again. Thank you!
This kinda thing absolutely seems like something Infernoplus would be perfect for...
Inferno is kinda busy. Probably doesnt want to pick up my half finished project
This is a really cool video. I’ve always laughed at the weird scale of things in CE. Especially the Pillar Of Autumn 😅
The fact there’s a gap. Yeah….
And I saw their video today! @Killzone64
Yep, you have to always scale the ships up from games. I’ve remade the Paris Class, the Charon Class, and the Stalwart Class in Space Engineers, full scale. I made CZcams videos for them, they have to be much bigger than the ones in game.
Thank you for your attention to detail.
I really hope the HALO Creative Teams will be (or have been) consulting with you moving forward!!!
While we're on the subject of modding CE levels, the original CE devs dropped a bombshell during their speedrun reaction video that the Library was supposed to be more open concept, so you could basically constantly follow the pulsing beam of the index all the way up the library. Unfortunately they added a bunch of walls because the Xbox just wasn't up to the performance benchmarks needed for it to work. But certainly nowadays with the hardware we have, this idea's time must have come.
Honestly I've always wondered what a more Lore Accurate Warthog Run would be like and this is basically perfect
I can't really see any issues with how it'll fit within the Pillar of Autumn
I love the miniature, its funny to see.
Head-canon:
That gantic open section is just there because the ship got thorned on the crash
1:55
Back when I used to play video games at the hardest setting because someone at school said there was a secret ending.
This always boggled my mind 😂
I remember as a kid being obsessed with the ship design, I would get in trouble for trying to draw out the blueprints in class lol, But I also remember being confused by the scaling of the ship how big some rooms seemed but how relatively close together everything seemed, now kid me has some justification for being so lost lol
The longsword in halo ce the c709 longsword is two Times bigger than the c712 longsword thats used in halo cea
Yall some passionate nerds. Thanks.
Working on porting the entire pillar of autumn (with a driveable warthog) to VRChat :D This video will really come in handy.
I love the Actual Lore Scales of Halo, makes the universe kinda more personal. Thanks a lot to the modders who put efforts to respect the actual lore size of Halo, waited 20 years to see the real scale of the Autumn. Now do GTA: High Charity , so we can explore more of the Covenant lore in a Open World, lmao.
If we're talking about inconsistencies, Let's talk about the internal layout of the Truth & Reconciliation.
In the 9th mission, Keys, the layout of the hallways surrounding the ship's command room and the gravity-lift chanmer is entirely different than it was in TTAR. There are inclines, doors, and hallways in KEYS that did not exist in TTAR, meaning that it's an entirely different covenant ship. But the lore states that it's irrefutably TTAR, so unless we're told by 343 or bungie that TTAR has a second command room & a second Gravity lift room, we need this plot hole addressed.
I believe that was a different gravity lift, which may somewhat explain it. At very least, a fair bit of geometry got reused.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a 2nd command room that acts as a backup or is in command of a different part of the ship because these ships in lore are massive
I thought the novelization made it clear that it wasn’t the same ship
@@cosmictreason2242 In _The Flood_ ? Its the same ship in that one too. It actually appears three times.
We have long known the issue "hmm this is a really long road for the size of the ship"
...and that bridge.
Well this helpful for me not messing up scale on my own stuff
When I'm finished with my current project, I'd be super interested in taking a crack at this.
This seems to fix another issue that’s bothered me for a while about the apparent layout of the pillar of autumn, in that the location of the reactor makes little sense being so far foreword in the ship, when logically you’d expect it to be in the wider sections of the ship aft where there’s more protection, and it’s further from the bulk of the crew (in case of an accident).
Hmm, interesting stuff. Might have to refer back to this video for research purposes 👀
I have just finished putting together a prototype of how this might look using the Reach engine, and killzone's reworked layout! It's cool to see how the full run can fit inside Reach's Autumn model. It's heavily W.I.P. and as of right now I don't have any plans to add AI to it etc, but I'm hoping to get it finished, lit, and released as a mini demo map that people can download and play as a proof of concept!
Link: czcams.com/video/fYhfQfTsnQQ/video.html
Had a thought about the hangar bay location: Though it is completely unlikely given the location of the hangar bays on the exterior, the number of Pelican bays match the number of exterior bay locations. If it weren't for that, as well as the obvious issue of the _entire bay_ being labeled as "Hangar Bay 7," it'd maybe make for a decent explanation for the size.
To be fair, Bungie was only supposed to go as far as Halo 2. Halo was supposed to be a quick cook gimmick for Xbox. Like most FPS games from the era, the game wasn't expected to do as well as it did. Oddly enough, it wasn't until Halo: CE when the modern FPS was born with how aim assist works, but that wasn't just it. Halo proved that an FPS could be easy to pick up, have a good score, story, acting, design, art, balance, and multiplayer plus split screen AND system link all in one package which wasn't heard of. This is the father of FPS games and it wasn't really trying to be. It's biggest flaw was not having Xbox Live implemented in time. My point is, Bungie didn't think it really matter by this time in development and such oversights were warranted. After all, multiplayer didn't work until the LAST month of development. They struggling against time. Still, it was a pretty cool hog run.
I always wondered why the Foehammer scene didn't take place at the _top_ of the Autumn
Hey 00 got a question, do you think we'll see the autumn again In Season 2 of the tv show? In the show we briefly saw frigates corvettes and even a destroyer but I am so hyped at my favourite ship class potentially returning
I'd honestly love to see the full final level of CE stitched up to include this
He came back after 3 years
So, question unrelated to this video;
Is the written lore size of the Pelican Dropship correct? It really seems to be 2/3 that size in-game.
Love what you do.
I have the same complaints about the final level. I think I remember your original video on it, and while I knew the scale was off, I didnt know it was that bad, lol.
I could give it a shot. I actually never bothered playing Infinite after seeing how bad the multiplayer was, but planned to maybe pick it up after Forge was added. I've probably played far more forge than actual multiplayer, and my go to things to build tend to be either spaceships... Or crashed ships. I'm not sure if I have the files still, I think theyre on my old 360, but I remember doing a reasonably accurate huge scale UNSC frigate on one map, and a scale pelican replica and longsword replica on another map (this being before they added the pelican as a prop).
Anyway, so long as the halo infinite forge doesnt have too many hard limits on things like part counts, I'd love to give it a shot. I am a physics student though, with some big IRL projects (private pilots license, and a van conversion), but, I wouldnt mind working on something like that in my spare time. If I dont get it done this winter break, might be next summer.
There's a channel that makes documentaries about shipwrecks and other disasters at sea, but every year for his April fools special he makes a mock-umentary about sci-fi shipwrecks, the first of which was the Pillar of Autumn were he jokingly references this scaling issue.
I just saw this on my feed and thought to myself "didn't I watch this video like 2 years ago???"
I figured the bridge scene was located in the spot of the POA, it looked like it fit there just right in that gap on the upper neck of the POA.
the main issue with trying to recreate the ship in halo infinate like any other halo game is its rather small boundry system they have in forge. its barely big enough id say to fit in some of the bigger ships like you tend to see in the campeign of the banished drop of ships as their real size or just fully planned out so its walkable in those ships but either than that i really dont think its possible unless the boundry in forge is taken off and away 1st to do so.
I can finally sleep at night 🤣🤣🤣
Pls do a most detailed breakdown on Point Blank-class prowler! Would love to see it on the screen...
I… actually have been working on this for 2 days now. Since the “map” would suit multiple gameplay roles too from murder mystery, to drag race, and more. But, I am unsure the scale will be correct. I did change some hallways slightly already to better suit the game mechanics while playing.
the popping noises :D
It's about time
I can see 00 standing next to a giant board with images, calculations and strings
You should do one for the scale of Foward Unto Dawn on the first level of Halo 4. I dont remember the ship being that big at the end of Halo 3
I hope some day, someone make a full scale 3D model of the Automn with the structural part, engines and the MAC in the center.😍
I always thought it would have been really cool if the reason that the long ass weird bridge existed, was if that the ship split in two, and that a bridge between ship parts had been built...
It’s actually incredibly easy to recreate it in forge via blender yourself, you could just port a more basic version of your creation in basic blocks and etc and then build over that basic geometry in actual forge
I honestly thought the bridge that connected the front and back of the ship was to show, hey the pillar of autumn kinda split during the crash.
your absolutely right about this
I think I might start recreating the original "broken" version of the warthog run in Unturned using the dev kit... Just a thought because I love both Halo and Unturned to death.
I remember the original video cant believe its been 2 years tho.
you know, i never thought about how weird that single bridge was. Seems like that'd be a pretty major bottleneck in regular operation.
I saw on halofollower or mint blitz’s Chanel them showing off someone’s work of the pillar of autumn recreated in halo infinites forge already. I think it was just to scale not to your up scaled one but I’d check that out
most sane halo fan
the finale escape was a bag of balls to complete
So you wouldn’t use a single thin bridge to hold the middle of your space ship together?
4 months of asking Can we have the rest of the halo tv show review some of us actually really enjoying it🥺
what song are you using at the end while thanking your patreons?
imaging a full freeroam PoA in infinite forge with the scale friendly warthog track and interiors